₦airaland Forum

Emusan:
Next time make your post well arrange by using quotation tag (instead of typing You said or I said or my remark) if not I won't reply you.

Ok ill try and see if I'm able to get the quote method.

Attacking strawman, @bold how can view/understanding of verse be found in the scripture? When you yourself did the same below.

So those words where ur own and where never used in the bible.
Pls show me where I used words that I can't defend using the scriptures .

I quoted a scripture that says " the word became flesh ". This you sidestepped in ur reply. The noble did not say "the word took on flesh " but "became flesh" .

What do you understand by " word became flesh"?

The two @bold show you never grasp the point; but let me help you.
Jesus came to earth NOT WITH HIS FLESH but He went to heaven with His Flesh.

So what did jesus come to earth with?
In what way does ur statement support the "took on flesh" statement you made earlier?
Can you provide prove that jesus went back to heaven with his flesh ?
I read 1 peter 3:18 and that place said " made alive in spirit" in reference to jesus ressurection.
Jesus died in the flesh, he was made alive in the spirit .
This form of ressurection is what humans who hoped to enter into Gods kingdom believe in for paul said "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God " .
Remember jesus is the first fruit of those who are to be ressurrected , if jesus where ressurected with his fleshly body , he would not have been the first for there were previous fleshly ressurections before jesus ressurection .

Jesus is the first fruit ressurected in the spirit and annointed christians hope to follow this form of ressurection
"Just as there are fleshly bodies, there are also spiritual bodies". Read 1 cor 15 : 44.

So He was not sent by His Father, right?



But no comment, since the Father is different from the one who sent Him according to you by changing The Father to the ONE TRUE GOD in above.

I deliberately did that, I changed the father to the only true God . Does the bible support my view ?
Yes, for jesus called the father the " only true God"
In john 17:1-3.
1 cor 8:5,6 also helps us to know which God we should worship, I encourage you to read it.

You read me well.



President Muhammad Buhari is superior than Me (It means PMB is superior than me in Authority and Position)
President Muhammad Buhari is equal to Me (It means as a Nigeria Citizen we are equal)
Let your reasoning faculty do the rest

Now let My reasoning faculty analyze what you just said
The father(only true God) has superior position and authority over jesus.
The father is equal to jesus just as I'm equal to the president cus we are both nigerian citezens.

From the above, we can agree that jesus is a "God" , but he is not the "almighty God" cus the father is superior to him.
Apart from position and authority , is there any other way the father is superior to jesus?
Knowledge- the father is superior to jesus cus jesus said he learnt from the father and there are still greater things for him to learn(to be shown ). Jesus also told his disciples that there are certain things he did not know , but only the father( the only true God knows).

Power- jesus received the power he used to perform his wonderful works from God. Read acts 10: 38.

Now that He's CALLED Everlasting Father, how many EVERLASTING FATHER DO YOU HAVE?

Jesus said there is only one father who is in heaven .

I believe you read and understood my post.



The question is, do you honour God THROUGH YOUR WORSHIP?



Can you provide scripture for your understanding here as you said of me earlier?



Do you know the meaning of SUPERIORITY?



In fact your scriptural perversion is alarming. NOTE here, Whatever the Father does, THE SON ALSO DOES! What does that mean to you? Beside, Did I say there's no SUPERIORITY?

Read john 5 : 19 to 23 again .
You will know why the son does what the father does. Everything the son does, he learnt from the father.

The @bold is the key here, which means Jesus can also carry out HIS OWN WILL without conflicting Father's will. Which brought the whole previous verses into ONE. As even though Jesus can INITIATE His OWN WILL He still Allow the Father to lead.
I know you didn't see this.

Yes you are right, but his loyalty and love for the father made jesus not to do his own will, I never said jesus does not have his own will. Jesus has subjected his will to the will of the father.
Now john 17:2 helps us to understand that this particular ability of jesus was giving or granted to him by the father.

We will see how perverted you are with this your understanding.

Now that He has the Authority. Has Jehovah take back the Authority? If NO! How many people do you have HAVING ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY? If YES! Kindly explain.[/quote
]

No , jehovah has not taking back the authority . Bro, the authority giving to jesus is not absolute!. The scriptures never said absolute authority . The scriptures explains that despite jesus being giving authority , he is still subject to the father who gave him the authority. So in no way was jesus ever equal to the father in authority at any point in time



[quote]Imaging after in your own illustration when the messenger will be honored LIKE YOU'LL honor the King later change to not mean worshiping the Son like they worship the Father which we can then ask, how will people would've honored the King if the King that was actually seen by the people in place of that messenger?

I believe you don't understand your own illustration and this is where JWs always miss it.

The meaning of your illustration is very simple, the SEAL and the AUTHORITY can be interpreted If I (the King) be the one who APPEARS in your PRESENCE or come to you, how will you have treated me? In other word it means if it is Jehovah who actually came to earth with is OWN SEAL and Authority WILL YOU WORSHIP HIM or NOT?

Yes , if jehovah(the almighty) came to earth himself , ill worship him as the almighty God. I will also honor him as ill do the almighty god . But if he sends a messenger , a representative, ill honor that one as a representative of the almighty God. The previous verse 22 let's us udderstand why he said all will honor him as they honor the father.

Illustration upon illustration without knowing how it refutes your own claim.
Is it the same way the loyal servants honor God that God will honor them back? But Jesus said "...EVEN AS/JUST AS..." which means IN ANYWAY YOU HONOR THE FATHER HONOR ME IN LIKE MANNER.

As for me and the rest of TRUE BELIEVERS all over the world, we honor the Father through our worship, praise, prayers. I don't know about JWs but I know because you knew the gravity of this verse over your believe you decided to limit your HONOR to Jehovah ONLY for being the CREATOR.



Was it because The Father is also immortal King of kings and the Lord of lord that made them dishonor Him? Since the statement was "...EVEN AS/JUST AS they honor the Father."



You've given that beautiful verse two different meaning now because of your twisted tongue @bold, do you mean what Jesus did for you it's not Jehovah who did it?

Then you must value The Son as the creator too because "...EVEN AS/JUST AS you value (if we replace honor with value just for your own taste) the Father" that's what the verse says.

The honor you give a person is determined by the value or weight that person holds in you . The father loved us , he sent his son, I honor him for that . The son did not do his own thing, he did what the father sent him to do , I honor him for that . I also honor
The son cause he has been giving authority to perform acts that might lead me to evalasting life and can't gain such life if I dnt follow him .

your question is YES, is that ok?

But my question has been danced around and u swept over as usual.

The father was superior to Jesus while he was on earth , the father is also superior to jesus when he went back to heaven .

Emusan:
One mistake that people who raised questions like these are making is the INABILITY to distinguish between when The Word of God entered the creation and was given the name Jesus and His preexisting life from eternity.



When He took on flesh(became part of creations) the Father will automatically be His God as the Father is God for every creations.



Yes to earth by His Father.



His Father!



The Father is superior IN AUTHORITY/POSITION than Him.



He is not the PERSON of the Father but He is an EVERLASTING FATHER Isaiah 9:6 which placed Him in Equality with the Father.

In fact this is one of the verses that spelled out the Deity of Jesus.



The worship giving to Jesus is also for the Father no difference because "That ALL (including JWs) may HONOR THE SON, [size=14pt]EVEN AS[/size] they (including JWs) HONOR the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth the Father which hath sent him" John 5:23

Let me ask you this maybe you can answer it since JWs I've asked always dance around and swept over it, do you honour the Father through your worship or In what way do you honour the Father? Remember Jesus said [size=14pt]"...EVEN AS/JUST AS..."[/size]
*Note: Don't ridicule your post by now giving me the definition of the word 'Honour' from dictionary.



Then do the Trinitarian ever claim that Jesus is superior than His Father?

It's better you get a Trinity book and read for your own benefit and leave everything Watchtower had told you about Trinity because it never presents Trinity the way Trinitarian teaches.

You made this statement :
"One mistake that people who
raised questions like these are
making is the INABILITY to
distinguish between when The
Word of God entered the
creation and was given the
name Jesus and His
preexisting life from eternity."

Do you have any bible verse(s) to support ur views expecially the "word of God entered the creation"? note key word we are looking for *"enter creation" *


I asked :
(1) does Jesus have a God?

You said :
When He took on flesh(became
part of creations) the Father will automatically be His God as the Father is God for every
creations.

My remarks:
Do you have any verse(s) that supports the statements: (a)"took on flesh"
(b)became part of creation?
* note the key words we need from the scriptures :"took on flesh" and " became part of creation.
Words not used in the right format or probably deliberately twisted can give one a different understanding . The different translations I read on john 1:14 says " the word became flesh " and " word was made flesh "!. * note key word : "became"!

Now you say jesus had a God when he took on flesh , to me this implies that he did not have a God before coming to earth(correct me if I'm wrong). Now did he still have that God or did not have that God when he went back to heaven after his ressurrection ?

I asked :
(2) was Jesus sent ?

You said :
Yes to earth by His Father.

My remarks:
I agree with you, jesus was sent by the one true God.

I asked :
(3) who sent Jesus ?

You said:
His Father!

I asked :
(4) who do you think is
superior , Jesus or the one
who sent him .

You said:
The Father is superior IN
AUTHORITY/POSITION than
Him.

My remarks :
Ur statement shows that jesus and the father are not equal in authority and position , the father is superior to jesus

I asked :
(5) is Jesus the father?
You said :
He is not the PERSON of the
Father but He is an
EVERLASTING FATHER Isaiah
9:6 which placed Him in
Equality with the Father.
In fact this is one of the verses
that spelled out the Deity of
Jesus.

My remarks:
You earlier stated that the father is superior to jesus , that they are different persons, now you state they are equal?.
How can they be equal when one is superior to the other ?
Isaiah 9:6 said :"he will be called....... evalasting father". This denotes that at a particular time he was not called "evalasting father" .

I asked:
(6) if you think Jesus is not the
father, who do you think
deserves our worship , Jesus
, the father or both ?

You said:
The worship giving to Jesus is
also for the Father no difference
because "That ALL (including
JWs) may HONOR THE SON,
EVEN AS they (including
JWs) HONOR the Father. He
that honoureth not the Son
honoureth the Father which
hath sent him" John 5:23
Let me ask you this maybe you
can answer it since JWs I've
asked always dance around
and swept over it, do you
honour the Father through
your worship or In what way
do you honour the Father?
Remember Jesus said
"...EVEN AS/JUST AS..."
*Note: Don't ridicule your post
by now giving me the definition
of the word 'Honour' from
dictionary.

Are you saying that when we worship jesus, we also worship the father? Or we worship both at the same time


Thank God john 5:23 did not say " everyone will worship the son just as they worship the father".

I will show you my understanding of the verse by quoting it and also adding more info in bracket.

John 5: 19-23:
19 So Jesus explained, “I
tell you the truth, the Son can
do nothing by himself. He
does only what he sees the
Father doing( your deity, jesus, said he only does what he sees the father doing, he does not do anything of his own initiative, yet some say the father and son are equal, how can they be equal when the son does not take any action unless the father tells him to? ) . Whatever the Father does, the Son also does( can you see superiority here too, no verse in the bible ever says "whatever the son does, the father also does". 20 For the Father loves the Son and shows him everything he is doing( the father teaches the son ). In fact, the Father will show him how to do even greater works than healing this man( the father will still teach the son how to do greater things in the future). Then you will truly be astonished. 21 For just as the Father gives life to
those he raises from the dead,
so the Son gives life to anyone
he wants.( the father has giving the son the ability and taught him how to raise the dead) 22 In addition, the
Father judges no one. Instead,
he has given the Son absolute
authority to judge, ( the father gave the son the authority, at a Particular time jesus never had the authority ) 23 ( since the father has giving this authority to the son , what happens next) so that( the word "so" links verse 23 to verse 22 ) everyone will honor the Son, just as they honor the Father.
Anyone who does not honor
the Son is certainly not
honoring the Father who sent
him.

If a king sends a messenger on an errand with his seal or sign of authority, that messenger is honored like you'll honor the king . Jesus said all will honor the son like they honor the father cus of the authority the father gave him. He definitely did not mean worship the son like they worship the father.

The principal Hebrew term
denoting “honor” is ka·vohdhʹ,
which literally means “heaviness.” So a person who is honored is regarded as being weighty, or amounting to
something. In Greek, the noun
ti·meʹ conveys the sense of
“honor,” “esteem,” “value,”
“preciousness.” Thus the verb
ti·maʹo can also mean “set a
price on”the noun ti·meʹ can have the sense of “price,” “value” and the adjective tiʹmi·os can mean “esteemed,” “dear, or valuable,” and “precious.”

Children honor/value there parents
Servants honor/value there masters
Jesus honors/values God
God honors/values jesus
Servants of God honors/values God
God honors/values his loyal servants
The bible says how the Most
High will honor all who honor
Him, recognizing them as His
approved servants and blessing them beyond measure.

1Sa 2:30 : Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

Since it was God who highly exalted his Son, all who refuse to acknowledge Jesus Christ as the immortal King of kings and Lord of lords dishonor
the Father. Because of who he is and what he has accomplished, the Son deserves honor and loyal support.
All who desire to be honored by the Son as his approved disciples must imitate his example and faithfully adhere to his teaching.— Romans 2:7, 10.

I value the father cus he is my creator, I value the son cus of what he has done for me.

I asked :
(7 ) is Christ under subjection
to anybody ?
( if you are in subjection to
another, is that person not
superior to you ?

You said :
Then do the Trinitarian ever
claim that Jesus is superior
than His Father?
It's better you get a Trinity book
and read for your own benefit
and leave everything
Watchtower had told you about
Trinity because it never
presents Trinity the way
Trinitarian teaches.

My remarks :
Sir , you have not answered question 7 .

Ayomivic:
I still have one or two questions to ask before we continue.

"You said Jesus exists in spirit form like his father"

base on the above statement , i will like to ask you this question.

1. Did Jesus exists on his own when he was in spirit form?

You called Jesus " God's son, the only begotten son of father, the word " and i know you know the meaning of the word " begotten" this is my question

2. If truly Jesus is only begotten of God, can you pls tell us how God begot Jesus?


3 If human being can only begotten human being and spirit can only begotten spirit as you said Jesus was only begotten son of God his father whom (Jesus) was later returned back to his spirit nature or form. Can we then say Jesus is God the son?

you called Jesus word

4 can you explaine to us how Jesus was word?

(1) I will take ur question to mean : did jesus exist as a seperate person from God when he was in spirit form?

The answer is yes .

Did you read verse 30 of the proverbs 8: 22-31 I suggested earlier .


"Then I was constantly at his
side. I was filled with delight
day after day, rejoicing always
in his presence," - prov 8: 30.

Did you read about jesus request when he prayed to God?

And when jesus returned back to heaven as a spirit , he was "at" Gods right side,he was "with" God, not "in" God. Remember where Stephen said he saw jesus.



By virtue of jesus being the sole direct creation of his
Father, the firstborn Son jesus was unique, different from all others of God’s sons, all of whom were created or begotten by God through that firstborn Son. So “the Word” was Gods “only- begotten Son” .



(3)note : I never said these words :" If human being can only begotten human being and spirit can only begotten spirit".

No we can't call say "jesus is God the son" . Jesus is not the almighty God, jesus is not the father.
You can call a man's son "son of man" , you wunt call him " man the son " would you .



(4) The name or title “the Word” identifies the function that God’s firstborn Son performed after other intelligent creatures were
formed.
A similar expression is
found at Exodus 4:16, where
Jehovah says to Moses
concerning his brother Aaron:
“And he must speak for you to
the people; and it must occur that he will serve as a mouth to you, and you will serve as God to him.” As spokesman for God’s chief representative on earth, Aaron served as “a mouth” for Moses. Likewise with the Word, or Logos, who became Jesus Christ. Jehovah evidently used his Son to convey information and instructions to others of his
family of spirit sons, even as he used that Son to deliver his
message to humans on earth.
Showing that he was God’s
Word, or Spokesman, Jesus
said to his Jewish listeners:
“What I teach is not mine, but
belongs to him that sent me. If
anyone desires to do His will, he will know concerning the
teaching whether it is from God or I speak of my own originality.” — Joh 7:16, 17;

Read also:
John 12:50; 18:37.
Joh 14:24; 17:14;
Lu 5:1)


"And he was clothed with a
vesture dipped in blood: and
his name is called The Word
of God." - revelation 19:13

frosbel2:
Agree with both points.

The west has given a platform to the radical elements of Islam who were subdued and brought under control by people like Assad, Ghaddafi and Saddam.

All these countries used to be mostly stable and peaceful till America started their silly games.

Oh, let's not forget that America is a Christian nation or something like that -

And what did saudi arabia and Iran do during this silly games period?

Who did uae, quatar, saudi, egypt support during this period ?

jocalo:
Am tired of being a jehovah's witness.

Am really tired of being a member of this religion(jehovah's withness) these are reasons why am tired of this religion-
The religion is too strict. there are too many laws and activities which are hard to keep. Every wednesday, thursday and saturday we use to go for preaching. on friday we use to have our theocratic ministry school,and every sunday we use to go for our watchtower study and lecture,too much activities everyday. there is virtually no day for you to rest.
(1) we don't celebrate christmas
(2) we don't cellebrate new year
(3) we don't celebrate birthdays
(4) we don't celebrate valentine's day
(5) we don't celebrate easter
(6) we don't take part in politics
(7) we don't marry outside our religion
(cool The laws of the religion are very strict and too hard and many more which i cannot list to the end.

This religion is too hard. The laws are too hard and extremely hard to keep. I am just tired of this religion. I want to quit but the problem is that am already a member. Once you are a member there is no turning back, and am really desperate to quit. This religion deprives you of so many things,the good things of life. I just can't bear it. What do I do? I am confused.

For someone who just joined nairaland on SEP 2! , superb post.

Abeg you fit tell me which website dem tell u say make u no visit?

paulGrundy:
What question??

The one I asked you

johnw74:
Not only do scriptures say that Jesus Christ is to be worshiped, which jw does not believe, and try and belittle Jesus saying such things as:

(1) does Jesus have a God?
(2) was Jesus sent ?
(3) who sent Jesus ?
(4) who do you think is superior , Jesus or the one who sent him .
(5) is Jesus the father?
(6) if you think Jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , Jesus , the father or both ?
(7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ?
(cool if you are in subjection to another, is that person not superior to you ?

In their warped thinking they think these questions show that Jesus Christ is not to be worshiped.

Even without any scriptures saying so, Christians know that Jesus Christ-God is to be worshiped


Jesus Christ is God and God is to be worshiped:

John said "the Word was God": Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Timothy said "Jesus is God": 1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Jesus shows "He is God" along with the Father: Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: Lord in that verse is "kurios" meaning God, "God our God is one God", God is one God, the Father and I are one

Thomas called Jesus "God": John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

David called Jesus Christ "God": Psa 45:6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

Isaiah said "God is with us": Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Immanuel means: "with us is God".

Matthew said "God is with us": Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jesus Christ is "equal to God", that is:- the Word was with God, the Word was God:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Titus called our saviour Jesus Christ, "the Great God": Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

Father God calls Jesus Christ "God" Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of

John shows "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit to be God": 1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
Mar_12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Jesus Christ-God certainly is worshiped by believers-Christians, and of course
He is not worshiped by antichrists, unbelievers, sects, false religion.

For the benefit of others who seek the truth, can you provide answers to the question if you know it?

One who is assured of the truth Ib his words will be ready to discuss his beliefs always. You believe in something, then let's discuss it here, no fighting, no abusive speech, so that I, you and others on these thread will get a better understanding of the truth.

If its ok by you , can we start with 1 Timothy 3:16 ? One of the bible verses you quoted.

paulGrundy:
Never knew FDS were 2000+ years old



Even the apostles never claimed to be the link to the truth, or claimed that they have salvation.

Salvation was ascribed to JESUS only Acts 4:12



That's the problem with you folks is that you are erronoesly trained to believe that an organization will interprete scripture for you, my bible tells me that the spirit reveals the deep things of God, not any watchtower or organization.

Wish you could answer my questions

Demmzy15:
What now happen?!



OK they're leaving that's why the number of refugees in Turkey is increasing right? I've said it times without number that your brain is saturated!



Not funny! None of the European countries complained to you, in fact they're gladly accepting the migrants. Hope you can get that into your thick black skull



So? If because Turkey is secular they are overburdened by the crisis, why can other secular European countries accept. Very illogical!



Are they Muslims yes or no? That's the point of contention, more than 85% are Muslims. I know my God won't condemn them like how yours would. He's a Merciful God!



Saudi Arabia helps the Free Syrian Army which is recognized by all. The Free Syrian Army with the YPG fights ISIS and Bashar Al Assad who's family ruled Syria for more than 40years in a democracy. Something an hypocrite like you would never except!



So?



They help the refugees humanitarianly by funding the funding the refugee camps and other necessities. Saudi Arabia doesn't share border with Syria, moreover many illegal migrants flock into Saudi through the Yemeni border.



Which one is officially again?



Qatar which is a tiny country also helps the refugees financially.



They choose to go to wherever they want! The majority unbelievers ain't complaining, but one black man from Eastern Nigerian wants to kill himself!



I wonder what's wrong in them running away from death and settling wherever they want to. A 13year old Syrian boy said on aljazeera today: " They should please accept us, as soon as they(Western Powers) stop the war, we'll return back to Syria" This was an honest message from an innocent boy, whose parents are still in Syria!

Q: are refugees leaving turkey ?
A: yes

Q: Who are the refugees leaving turkey ?
A: those that are able to move, the young ones.

Q: why is the population of refugees still increasing in turkey ?
A: cus people of the same religion are still killing each other in syria. So more people are emiigrating turkey and through turkey .

Q: are they Just leaving turkey to other neibourring countries?
A: nop, some are moving as far away as possible from the Arab world . Many times the distance they would have used to travel to s.a

Q: do all European countries fully accept the migrants ?
A: nop, some try to stop them by putting up barb wire baricades, some accept with conditions while some close down their boarders.

Q: What is the relationship between s.a , the Rebels in syria , the (former) government in yemen and the government in bahrain have ?
A: they are sunni

Q: does s.a support them militarily ?
A: yes

Q; what is the relationship between assad, the rebels in yemen and the protesters in bahrain ?
A: they are shia

Q: does s.a assist them militarily?
A : for where!

Q: does s.a get protection from unbelivers ?
A: yep.

Q: will s.a accept what they are doing to syria to be done to them . That is foreign countries offering and giving arms to protesters and rebels in s.a?
A: absolutely no

Q: Who contributes more financially to help the Syrians , The rich Arab countries or the country of the unbelievers
A: the country of the unbelievers

Q: will the western powers stop the war ?
A: dnt think so, they have learnt the lesson that its very hard to stop two groups of people who are desperate to kill each other .

paulGrundy:
Pardon me, but Jesus never prescribed any organization as the sole channel of the truth. He called himself the truth! John14:6.

Did I personally say to you or anyone on this thread that jesus prescribed or named an organization as the sole channel of the truth ?

Pls tell ,Who today does this work : mat 24: 3, 45-51 .

Was the work done through individuals, an organization or organizations during the time of the apostles. ?
Acts 2:42 , acts 8:14 , acts 15:1,2 6-21 .

Pls do tell her names of organization(s) in which you receive the word of God. Or dnt you associate with an organization? If you do pls tell the op on this thread.


Are you happy with her stance now? If not, pls tell her on this thread what she should do.

MzNelly:
I honestly love, adore and respect the Witnesses for their deep research of the scriptures. I also love the way you defend your faith. It speaks a lot.
I love their morals and everything they stand for. I hold nothing against them.

But seriously, this belief of them being the "truth", "God's organization", "God's channel"(in spite of their mistakes) and the only ones that God will save at Armageddon is really sickening.

Also the hidden sexual abuse cases and the hypocrisy in the use of blood is just too much.

Listen, believe in whatever rocks your boat. Hold it close to your heart, you hear?
Because trust me, you do not want to find yourself in my shoes---more confused and hurt than I have ever been in my life.

Thanks.

Has anyone giving you any bible based truth contrary to the one you learnt before.?
Have you found an organization you feel is good enough to help ur search for the truth ?

dolphinheart:
All should consider this questions

(1) does jesus have a God?
(2) was jesus sent ?
(3) who sent jesus ?
(4) who do you think is superior , jesus or the one who sent him .
(5) is jesus the father?
(6) if you think jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , jesus , the father or both ?
(7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ?
( if you are in subjection to another, is that person not superior to you ?

To everyone.

If anyone teaches you about jesus and worship and can't /refuses/ sidesteps the questions above, just kindly remind him that he should provide answers!

All should consider this questions

(1) does jesus have a God?
(2) was jesus sent ?
(3) who sent jesus ?
(4) who do you think is superior , jesus or the one who sent him .
(5) is jesus the father?
(6) if you think jesus is not the father, who do you think deserves our worship , jesus , the father or both ?
(7 ) is Christ under subjection to anybody ?
( if you are in subjection to another, is that person not superior to you ?

Ayomivic:
I have one more question on that verse before we move on.

I knew you would have problem in answering question 2 on that verse , if you answerd question 1 the way you answered it.

The answer you gave for question 2 of that verse was the same answer you gave for John 8;58 and i have held unto it to ask you when you finisher answered all the quetion but now i think we should clear this onece and for all. You said "Jesus exist as a spirit creature before Abraham was born" and now you said "Jesus was a spirit creature in heven, he completely gave up this form(nature) and took a slave/ flesh/ human form/nature"
the are my quetions

1 what do you mean by spirit creature or how can one be in spirit creature?

2 Are there any scripure backing on this? If yes, pls quote the scripure.

Good question .

God is a spirit and we can say he exist in spirit form, or say Gods form is spirit. This form is different to humans which are in the form of flesh. So if it is said that something exist in Gods form, they are spirit creatures , not human creatures . Spirit creatures exist in spirit bodies while human creatures exist in physical human flesh .

"God is a Spirit: and they that
worship him must worship him
in spirit and in truth".

God’s Son, jesus ,God’s “only-begotten son,” the Word, was a spirit person like his Father, hence “existing in God’s form” ( Php 2:5-, but later “became flesh,” residing among mankind as the man Jesus. His form was changed completely! from a spirit to flesh.
Completing his earthly course,
he was “put to death in the flesh, but [was] made alive in the spirit.”

"For Christ also suffered once
for sins, the righteous for the
unrighteous, that he might
bring us to God, being put to
death in the flesh but made
alive in the spirit,"- ( 1Pe 3:18)

His Father resurrected him, granted his Son’s request to be glorified alongside the Father with the glory he had had in his prehuman state ( Joh 17:4, 5),

and God made him “a life-giving spirit.”

"Thus it is written, “The first
man Adam became a living
being”; the last Adam became
a life-giving spirit.-1Co 15:45

The Son thus became again invisible to human sight, dwelling “in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.”— 1Ti 6:14-16.

To get further proofs that jesus existed before coming to earth read :
John 3:13
John 6:38, 62
John 8:23, 42, 58
Proverbs 8:22- 31

The spirit creatures have spirit bodies while the humans have fleshly physical bodies, man cannot literarily know how spirit creatures look like unless through a vision . Man can only see a spirit creature if that spirit creature materializes a physical body for the man to see, just like the angels did , and just like jesus did after his ressurrection as a spirit creature.

Paul said: "They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies. "- 1cor 15:44

This statement was made in reference to those humans who will enter heaven to be jesus brothers and serve as kings over the rest of mankind on earth during jesus rule.
They will not be ressurrected in human form/ flesh , for that form, a slaves form cannot enter Gods presence.

"What comes first is the natural body, then the spiritual body comes later. 47 Adam, the first man, was made from the dust of the earth, while Christ, the second man, came from heaven. 48 Earthly people are like the earthly man, and heavenly people are like the heavenly man. 49 Just as we are now like the earthly man, we will someday be like i the heavenly man.
50 What I am saying, dear
brothers and sisters, is that
our physical bodies cannot
inherit the Kingdom of God.
These dying bodies cannot
inherit what will last forever. " - 1 cor 15 : 46-50 .

I hope this answers ur questions . I merged the two questions as I saw that the second question was just for me to provide scriptural proof to question 1 .

Can I continue with the next question ?

If the war in syria had been a political war , it would have been resolved siiince! But it is more religious than political.

Look at the two sides in the war(initial war before isis came on the screen), you will see that the two sects of the same religion are supporting their own . Check the sect the saudis are supporting and the sect the Iranians are supporting and the pictures becomes clearer.

I initially thought the saudis can claim right with there support of the rebels, but I now saw a pattern . In yemen , they support their side, likewise in bahrain , but the difference now is that instead of their own being rebels, they are the government.

I dnt see the war ending in mutual agreement for peace, there can be no peace unless one side totally annihilates the other(I think the U.S has realised this now).

Imagine : muslm countries sending weapons to muslms to kill muslms while not ready to help muslms refugees from the war.

There are over 1.7 million Syrian refugees in turkey.

Q: Why is this so?
A: Turkey is next to syria and shares land borders with syria.

Q: Do this refugees stay in turkey?.
A: As evidence shows, they are migrating out of turkey and moving on to Greece , Hungary, Slovakia, Germany and the rest of Europe.

Q:Why can't they stay in a majority Muslm country and wish to move to another country where unbelievers are the majority ?

A: na only them fit answer o. Na only dem know wetin their eye see.

Q: is turkey a Muslm country
A: officially turkey is a secular country , but muslms are the majority.

Q: why are muslms the majority
A: you like it or not , you are automatically registered as a Muslm at birth if your parents are muslms. There is also the compulsory teaching of the religion in secular secondary schools. Little or no other religion is taught.


Sadi arabia
Q: is s.a sending weapons to syria for them to kill themselves? A: yes

Q: is s.a a Muslm country?
A: absolutely yes

Q: have they officially taken in refugees from syria ?
A: absolutely no ( waiting for counter proof)

Q: have they unofficially taken in Syrian refugees
A: nop

Quatar
Q: Muslm country?
A: yep

Q: Syrian refugees ?
A: officially 54 out of 4,000,000!

Q: do refugees from other countries that do not have land borders with muslin countries go to these Muslm countries.

A: nop, they prefer to make dangerous journey to the countries where majority are the unbelievers .

Q: why ?
A: dnt know o! But as one refugee(crossing from a majority Muslim country to a majority Christian country ) said on CNN , "we wunt be doing this is death is not chasing us".

Ayomivic:
ok, i think the main inportant of this verse is to digest what the passage is explaining,to understand what the passage is saying. What you understand of the verse is what we needed.

What i understood of the two sections of tranlators/translations you posted was that. The translators in section A are simple and understandable while section B will leave us with questions.

Section A uses the word "God" while section B uses " He, who, which and Christ where Section A used God

the key words or phrase that are very important in that verse for us to get the message correct are

MYSTERY OF GODLINESS, MANIFEST/APPEAR/REVEAL IN FLESH, RECEIVED INTO GLORY.

The above words or phrase prove the translator the Weymouth New Testament inappropriate

" and beyond controversy great is the MYSTERY of our religion that CRHIST APPEARED IN HUMAN FORM and HIS CLAIMS justified by the spirit was seen by angel and procliamed among gentile nation, was believed on in the world and receieved up AGAIN into glory.

As i said this above verse leave us with question and the questions it leave us with are these

1 what is mystery about the verse?

2. If Christ is human( as we had known) why did the verse said he appeared in human form?

3 what claim does the verse reffering to?

4 " he received up again into glory" Has christ been in glory before?

Section A : that used God ,cleard us from above questions. God who is not human manifest or reveal or appear in human form which is mystery

the others translationr that used He,Which, Who we leave us with question of want to know who is who, he and which in their translation

SECTION A is cleared, and self- explanatory and understandable

what i think should be concern of yours is how you understand the passage .What do you understand of Section A translations and Section B translations? are they saying thesame thing ? To me they are saying the same thing only that some are difficult to understand while some are easy to understand.
You should' nt have said we should jump over it or neglect it and move on.

The main importance of these verse is to (1) understand which Translation is correct as both sections are not the same, they said different things.
(2) to understand what the real verse is trying to say.


A translation of a verse being simple and understanding does not mean its real or correct .



Now on issue (1)
* excerpts from web pages

((Although the above verse in
the NIV does not support the
Trinity, there are some Greek
manuscripts that read, “God
appeared in the flesh.” This
reading of some Greek
manuscripts has passed into
some English versions, and
the King James Version is one of them. Trinitarian scholars admit, however, that these Greek texts were altered by scribes in favor of the Trinitarian position. The
reading of the earliest and best
manuscripts is not “God” but
rather “he who.” Almost all the
modern versions have the verse as “the mystery of godliness is great, which was manifest in the flesh,” or some close equivalent))

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/verses/1-timothy-3-16



((Examination of the Evidence
Modern translations do not read, "God" at 1 Timothy 3:16.
Trinitarians make this particular claim by quoting only from the King James Version reading of this verse. Despite the fact that scholars agree that the KJV reading is a certain corruption,
Trinitarians, even those who
normally do not read the KJV,
continue to cherry-pick this verse from the KJV.
When the Christological
controversies were occurring in the fourth century, we do not see even one solitary person making a reference to the "God was manifested in the flesh" version of this verse as evidence for identifying Jesus as "God." This fact does itself undeniably demonstrate it was unknown to them. If indeed 1 Timothy 3:16 really said "God was manifest in the flesh," we can most definitely be sure this passage would have most been brought forward as
"Exhibit A." Yet, not one soul
mentions it even though this
passage more than any other
would have supported the
teaching that the incarnate Christ was "God." But the facts remain as they are and it was never mentioned once in the myriads of documentation that exist illustrating what was argued in these debates. There is a good reason that no one in the fourth century church ever mentioned the passage. The word "God" did not appear in 1 Timothy 3:16 until much later. It first appeared in manuscripts after Trinitarian dogma was developed and canonized and is an obvious later alteration. The oldest and best manuscripts do not have the word "God" (theos) in 1
Timothy 3:16 which is why
modern Bible translations do not have the word "God" at 1
Timothy 3:16 either...................
......... Now because this verse is known to be a scribal error,
contemporary Trinitarian Greek scholars, who have access to numerous manuscripts, have not been able to perpetuate this error
any longer into English
translations, despite the
passions of some who desire the word "God" to appear in this verse at the expense of truth. Let us look at some of the major translations of this passage and note how Trinitarian Greek scholars themselves acknowledged the scribal error:
"He appeared in a body" (NIV)
"He who was manifested in the
flesh" (ASV)
"He who was revealed in the
flesh" (NASB)
"He was manifested in the
flesh" (RSV)
"Which was manifested in the
flesh" (Douey-Rheims)
"Who was manifested in the
flesh" (NAB)"
Quite plainly, Trinitarian
translation scholars are admitting this version of the verse is not authentic. One then wonders why Trinitarians so often continue to appeal to it.))

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/1Tim3_16.html


(( 1 Timothy 3:16 in Codex
Alexandrinus

Reproduced below is the text of 1 Timothy 3:16–4:3 from Codex A, as presented in the
photographic facsimile volume
published by the British Museum in 1879. Of particular interest here is the reading in 3:16, where it may be seen that the manuscript reads ΘC "God was manifested in the flesh,"
employing the usual abbreviation ΘC for ΘEOC, with a stroke over the letters to indicate an abbreviation. However, textual critics believe that the ink in the center of the Θ and the stroke above were added by a corrector in modern times. Reasons for this belief are the color of the ink, and the fact that a "dot" has been placed in the Θ instead of a line.
Tregelles writes, "The ink in
which this has been done in A is sufficiently modern and black to declare its recent
application" (An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament, London, 1854).

Without these marks, the
manuscript originally read ΟC
"He who was manifested in the
flesh." ))


http://www.bible-researcher.com/alexandrinus4.html

((..... The shorter portion of Newton's dissertation was concerned with 1 Timothy 3:16, which reads...............
....... Newton argued that, by a small alteration in the Greek text, the word "God" was substituted to make the phrase read "God was manifest in the flesh." instead of "which was manifested in the flesh.". He attempted to demonstrate
that early Church writers in
referring to the verse knew
nothing of such an alteration.
Summary of both passages
Newton concludes: "If the
ancient churches in debating
and deciding the greatest
mysteries of religion, knew
nothing of these two texts, I
understand not, why we should be so fond of them now the debates are over. With
minor exceptions, it was only in the nineteenth century that
Bible translations appeared
changing these passages.
Modern versions of the Bible
from the Critical Text usually
omit the addition to 1 John 5:7,
but some place it in a footnote,
with a comment indicating that
"it is not found in the earliest
manuscripts".[9] Modern
translations of 1 Timothy 3:16
following the Critical Text now
typically replace "God" with
"He" or "He who", while the
literal Emphasized has "who"............Newton did not publish these findings during his lifetime, likely due to the political climate.
Those who wrote against the
doctrine of the Trinity were
subject to persecution in
England. The Blasphemy Act
1697 made it an offence to
deny one of the persons of the
Trinity to be God, punishable
with loss of office and
employment on the first
occasion, further legal
ramifications on the second
occasion, and imprisonment
without hope for bail on the third occasion. Newton's friend
William Whiston (translator of
the works of Josephus) lost his professorship at Cambridge for this reason in 1711. In 1693 a pamphlet attacking the Trinity was burned by order of the House of Lords, and the next year its printer and author were
prosecuted. In 1697 Thomas
Aikenhead, an eighteen-year-
old student charged with
denying the Trinity, was hanged at Edinburgh, Scotland.
It was published in 1754.))


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Historical_Account_of_Two_Notable_Corruptions_of_Scripture


Now that we know that the word "God " is a scribal error, a later addition and wrong translation , we shall discard that verse as rendered by those In section A and look to what the verse is telling us by the quotes in section B.





“The sacred secret/mystery/secret of . . . godly
devotion/godliness” was revealed in Jesus. ( 1 Timothy 3:16) It had long been a secret, a mystery, as to whether anyone could maintain perfect integrity to God . Jesus revealed the answer. He kept integrity under every test that Satan put upon him.—Matthew 4:1-11; 27:26-50.

The prime example of
godly devotion/godliness is Jesus Christ.
Adam, the perfect man, had not set the perfect example of godly devotion/godliness. None of his children, born imperfect, could do so. Who
would be able to do this? The
coming of God’s Son to earth
and his integrity-keeping course gave the answer, revealing the solution to the sacred secret/mystery . He
is the one to whom Timothy
should look for the perfect
example of conduct manifesting godly devotion.—1Ti 3:15.



Jesus Christ was the one man to manifest godly devotion/godliness perfectly, in every sense, proving that man in the flesh can maintain such devotion. Under severe trials, right down to the end of his earthly course Jesus was “loyal, guileless, undefiled, separated from the sinners.” ( Heb 7:26) No flaw
could be found in his integrity, to accuse him before God. He said, before his death: “I have
conquered the world,” also, “The ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me.” ( Joh 16:33; 14:30) No
unrighteousness could be found in him. He could rightly say to his enemies: “Who of you convicts me of sin?” ( Joh 8:46) The solution to “the sacred secret/mystery of
this godly devotion” is so great and means so much to mankind that it is to be proclaimed worldwide. Jesus Christ himself is the basis upon which Christian godly devotion and conduct in the congregation are patterned.

These same Godly devotion/godliness that jesus had is we are to pursue.

"But you, man of God, flee from all this, and pursue
righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and
gentleness."- 1 Tim 6:11


The above answers the question :
1 what is mystery about the
verse?


Jesus was a spirit creature in heaven , he completly gave up this form(nature) and took a slaves/flesh/human form/nature.

The above answers the question :
2. If Christ is human( as we had
known) why did the verse said
he appeared in human form?


As to the question below, I do not understand ur question or the word "claim"

:"3 what claim does the verse
reffering to?"



You asked: 4 " he received up again into glory" Has christ been in glory before?

Nearly all the verses I read said "taken up in glory", received into glory".
This is true of jesus after his resurrection , God made jesus request (glorify me alongside the glory I had with you ) come to be when upon ascention to heaven , God told jesus " sit at my right side/Hand "( a very glorious position ) . This is what Stephen saw in a vision , jesus was at the right Hand side of the throne, not on the throne or in the throne .


Can we now move on to the next question or you still have something to discuss on these verse.

New Living Translation As Peter entered his home, Cornelius fell at his feet and worshiped him. - acts 10:25.
Is peter God? If no , why is he worshiped?.

kobosmalls:
Do you?

Do you?

kobosmalls:
Because we grow old and die.

Dont tell me about sin because i know that animals didnt sin and get cursed but they still die.

Use ur small brain. Its meant to be used not to be misled.

Imagine a 21st century human looking for answers to why we die in a book written by normadic ret4rds who thought that the sun rotates around the earth and that a donkey talks even a snake too.
Grow up you dullard.
Everything with a beginning comes to an end.

Have you found out why we(humans) grow old and die ?

johnw74:
Bingbagbo quoted scripture opposing yours and joz beliefs "God was manifest in the flesh"
well I'm glad that's one scripture you are not going to change.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I have a feeling you will not answer my question , bimgbagbo jesus is same as the father(?), Is ur jesus the same as the father ?.
Do you agree to the scriptures he showed you on who he believe jesus is?

I have not started this discussion to go into who jesus is(we will get to that shortly ), just wanted to discuss the different views on who jesus is by you and bmgbagbo. You dnt believe in the same jesus , or do you?
Do u You agree with his Statements on who jesus is? If no why?

Strongly hope you will answer my questions this time

Modified: pls answer my questions so we can move into. The issue you raised on 1 ti 3:16

Ayomivic:
write out what was written in the original manuscript you checked for us to see. We can remove the verse without proof. You can't say this and expect me to believe you without evidence to prove.

Write out whatever written in other translation or original manuscrip.

Remember there is curse on anybody that removed or added to the scripture. This allegation is a big crime.Pls provide evidence to prove.

I did not say I checked the original manuscript . Evidence points to two different things by translators of that verse, you quoted one, and I said I saw another, as it is you that quoted it, you will have to tell me which is true and why.

I've put where "god" is mentioned in the verse in section A. While the others are in section B

SECTION A

King James Bible
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

Jubilee Bible 2000
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached unto the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

King James 2000 Bible
And without doubt great is the
mystery of godliness: God was
manifest in the flesh, justified
in the Spirit, seen of angels,
preached unto the Gentiles,
believed on in the world,
received up into glory.

American King James
Version
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen of
angels, preached to the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.

Darby Bible Translation
And confessedly the mystery
of piety is great. God has been
manifested in flesh, has been
justified in [the] Spirit, has
appeared to angels, has been
preached among [the] nations,
has been believed on in [the]
world, has been received up in
glory.

Webster's Bible Translation
And without controversy, great
is the mystery of godliness:
God was manifest in the flesh,
justified in the Spirit, seen by
angels, preached to the
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, received up into glory.


World English Bible
Without controversy, the
mystery of godliness is great:
God was revealed in the flesh,
justified in the spirit, seen by
angels, preached among the
nations, believed on in the
world, and received up in
glory.

Young's Literal Translation
and, confessedly, great is the
secret of piety -- God was
manifested in flesh, declared
righteous in spirit, seen by
messengers, preached among
nations, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory!



SECTION B
New International Version
Beyond all question, the
mystery from which true
godliness springs is great: He
appeared in the flesh, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was preached
among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was
taken up in glory.

New Living Translation
Without question, this is the
great mystery of our faith:
Christ was revealed in a
human body and vindicated by
the Spirit. He was seen by
angels and announced to the
nations. He was believed in
throughout the world and
taken to heaven in glory.

English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is
the mystery of godliness: He
was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit, seen
by angels, proclaimed among
the nations, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory.

Berean Study Bible
By common confession, the
mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in the flesh, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was
proclaimed among the nations,
was believed in throughout the
world, was taken up in glory.

Berean Literal Bible
And confessedly, great is the
mystery of godliness: Who
was revealed in the flesh, was
justified in the Spirit, was seen
by angels, was proclaimed
among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was
taken up in glory.

New American Standard
Bible
By common confession, great
is the mystery of godliness: He
who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels, Proclaimed
among the nations, Believed
on in the world, Taken up in
glory.

Holman Christian Standard
Bible
And most certainly, the
mystery of godliness is great:
He was manifested in the
flesh, vindicated in the Spirit,
seen by angels, preached
among the nations, believed
on in the world, taken up in
glory.

International Standard
Version
By common confession, the
secret of our godly worship is
great: In flesh was he revealed
to sight, kept righteous by the
Spirit's might, adored by
angels singing. To nations
was he manifest, believing
souls found peace and rest,
our Lord in heaven reigning!

NET Bible
And we all agree, our religion
contains amazing revelation:
He was revealed in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit, seen
by angels, proclaimed among
Gentiles, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory.

Aramaic Bible in Plain
English
And this Mystery of
Righteousness is truly great,
which was revealed in the
flesh and was justified in The
Spirit; He appeared to Angels
and was preached among the
Gentiles; He was trusted in the
world and he ascended into
glory.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
The mystery that gives us our
reverence for God is
acknowledged to be great: He
appeared in his human nature,
was approved by the Spirit,
was seen by angels, was
announced throughout the
nations, was believed in the
world, and was taken to
heaven in glory.

New American Standard
1977
And by common confession
great is the mystery of
godliness:
He who was revealed
in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the
Spirit,
Beheld by angels,
Proclaimed among the
nations,
Believed on in the
world,
Taken up in glory.

American Standard Version
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness; He
who was manifested in the
flesh, Justified in the spirit,
Seen of angels, Preached
among the nations, Believed
on in the world, Received up in
glory.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And evidently great is the
mystery of godliness, which
was manifested in the flesh,
was justified in the spirit,
appeared unto angels, hath
been preached unto the
Gentiles, is believed in the
world, is taken up in glory.

English Revised Version
And without controversy great
is the mystery of godliness; He
who was manifested in the
flesh, justified in the spirit,
seen of angels, preached
among the nations, believed
on in the world, received up in
glory.

Weymouth New Testament
And, beyond controversy,
great is the mystery of our
religion-- that Christ appeared
in human form, and His claims
justified by the Spirit, was
seen by angels and
proclaimed among Gentile
nations, was believed on in the
world, and received up again
into glory.

So which of the two sections do u support and why?

MzNelly:
Why can't you marry a non-witness?

You have not told us why you left! And how you intend to correct or find solutions to the reasons that made you leave.

kobosmalls:
YOu dont get it, do you?

im trying to tell you that the bible lied to you when it wrote that people lived up to 900 years.

Neantherthal man didnt even live up to 200 years old and they were here before the jewish cavemen and we the modern man.

Please grow some brain in your head. dont be afraid to think freely.

It was ordinary humans like you, much so, stupid normadic men that wrote the bible.

I bet your bible didnt see the computer and the internet coming, otherwise they would have prophesied it.

The only prophecies in the bible that looks real to the untrained eyes are wars and famine,earthquakes etc which were already happening in their time.
Its similar to a person telling you that your wrist watch will someday get broken.

common sense!

THINK FREELY.
LEAVE THE JEWISH NORMADIC CAVEMEN TO THEIR THOUGHTS AND WISHES. THEIR TIME HAS GONE.

Do you know now know why man die?

kobosmalls:
Dude, you do realize that your so-called God created man and everything to be perfect, yet they sinned and everything became messed up.
Where did that virus come from that u used as a reference to God exterminating sin?
If the virus came from satan, didnt God create him to be perfect?
What assurance do you have that once God has wiped all evil from earth that evil wont rise up again, this time even worse because this time we now know sin unlike Adam and Eve who were created perfect.
Religion is full of sh1t and that is exactly one of the mind control means the bible and religion uses to attract and control people who fail to think for themselves.

Seems you dnt understand what perfection means

johnw74:
Thinking ahead is we?
bingbagbo and I both know that Jesus Christ is God,
he believes Jesus and the Father are the same person,
I believe Jesus and the Father are two diffrent persons

We are both right about Jesus being God

@red, you have made up that babel
@blue, I often don't answer jw confusion, who would?
@green, of course persons believing that Jesus is God would support each other in that, what we differ on don't change what we agree on,
how confused you are.

You never answered bingbagbo:

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Not thinking ahead, my view is based on posts and threads I've read .

I did not make anything up, some do believe jesus is a part of God.

You and bingbagbo believe jesus is God.
You and him have different views on how jesus is God .
Have you ever told him that his views on jesus and the father are same person is wrong?
Has he ever told you that ur views are wrong since both of you have different views on how jesus is God?

He has not directly asked me any question. But you can if you wish to , but u must first explain ur view on any scripture you quote first .

kobosmalls:
I am 100 percent with bro. smart sayings there. imagine the bible telling uus that humans lived up to 900 years old and surprisingly too many people accepts this. What are we, retarded?

So have you been able to learn what stops humans from living longer lives than they do now ?

BIBLESPEAKS:
To Mznelly
This is just an Advice.

I followed you on nairaland because I noticed even without you mentioning that you have a soft spot for JW's. However, its not so much a suprise that u were brought up as a JW.

So you woke up on day and decided that u'll quit being in the religion of your parents, that u'll quit the faith which your loving parents brought u up with? Well, it happens sometimes, u're not the first and neither will you be last. If what u've done wasn't recorded as something that will happen in this time, I may have been deeply puzzled.

I notice u still have some respect for JWs, but u made quite some remarks that indicates u didn't quite understand certain bible injunctions and how they are applied.

I have 3 points to make:

1. This world under satan's control(1john 5:19)says: "you can be whatever you want", the world promotes an independent spirit by kicking against any kind of restraint. Many are influenced by this way of thinking that's why today, they disregard the moral and spiritual boudaries established by God. This independent spirit satan promotes today was what led to the sin in Eden. Satan sowed the seed of independence from God and Eve nutured it. His methods havnt changed.

The whole congregation thing(as set out by JW) is not a mind control as some today say. It is a pattern set by the first century christians - Acts 15:6-29, 21:17-19. Jehovah blessed this pattern, so we apply it today.

We're affected to some degree by the world around us, but we shouldn't let the independent spirit of this world to overreach us. Fact is we must be under God's Authority and follow his arrangement if we want to please him, and not having a free mind or free thinking - that leads to self indulgence and greed. It certainly dsnt result in pleasin God.


2. Everyone studying the bible has to ask questions at some point. Answers must only be sourced from the Bible, not from other sources. Paul cautioned christians to be careful so as not to be carried away by the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men - col 2:8. Like an inflated balloon, the wisdom(thinking) of this world has an appearance of solidity, but there is not substance to it. It would be futile, even disastrous, to base one's choice of right and wrong on something as insubstantial as the wisdom of this world.

If you have issues with certain bible truths, consult with more experienced ones in the congregation, do personal bible research and reading, pray to Jehovah, have patience. Jehovah blesses such efforts.


3. The mistake you can make is to turn to any Apostate for guidiance. They will nuture the seed of independence in your heart - Independence from God.
Life is always better being on Jehovah's side(I write this from experience).

Added to point 3 : they cannot give you the answers you seek despite there happiness .

Ayomivic:
for me, i believe in correctness of Bible translation,so for this reason why would i be looking for what is not lost?

Maybe you are not getting me

Not all translations are correct.

Since not all translation of that verse mean or say the same thing, it means some translations are wrong and some are right . From other mordern translations I checked , the word "God" does not exist as part of that sentence . If these is true, the "jesus is God "Statement cannot be supported by that verse.

So since the word "god" does not exist in the original mamuscript but added later by copyist and translators, we will remove that verse from the discussiojn and go to the next question

The major issue when discussing with individuals who believe that jesus is God is the problem of understanding their own form/side/angle to the belief . Some belief that jesus and the father are both one and same person . Some believe they are two different persons with the same authority and power. Some believe that one is a jesus is a part of God ( just like water taken out of the ocean) .

The next issue is for them to agree and fully explain their own form of belief . You ask them questions and they will refuse to answer .

The most painfull part is that they will support each other as long as they both belief that jesus is God despite knowing that they have totally different approach and understanding of the topic.

vfactor:
Faithful and discreet slave wey I no even sabi their name. Can u compare it to those who pray in the name of their pastor's Gods. Or who use their pictures as dp and all that? Who quote words from their books as motivation. My sister, u don't even have what to say. Sometimes I reason on the biblication instructions the 'slave' gives and I ask, what's in for them, what's their benefit? And the answer is nothing! If they urge u not visit a particular site or dress a particular way, who benefits, u or them? How does it make them the richest pastors in the world?


If u ain't comfortable with the lifestyle of being a witness, just quietly leave. Many witnesses were once members of other churches. I don't think they open threads and start saying unreasonable things about those churches! Or maybe they stopped "using their brains"

Same here, if u ask me their names, ill just be scratching my head .

Ayomivic:
i don't think you need to ask me this question because the verse was quoted from Bible. We can all see it that the word "God" is present in the statement or what are you trying to prove?

The words where qouted from a bible translation , now is the translation from the original manuscript by these translators u quoted correct ? That's what ill like you to find out, cus a lot of mordern translations(if not all) dnt have the word "God" in that sentence. Pls comfirm so we can move on .