₦airaland Forum

toshino4real:
26. Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O Allah! Possessor of the kingdom, You give the kingdom to whom You will, and You take the kingdom from whom You will, and You endue with honour whom You will, and You humiliate whom You will. In Your Hand is the good. Verily, You are Able to do all things.

27. You make the night to enter into the day, and You make the day to enter into the night (i.e. increase and decrease in the hours of the night and the day during winter and summer), You bring the living out of the dead, and You bring the dead out of the living. And You give wealth and sustenance to whom You will, without limit (measure or account).
This is Qu'ran, 3: 26-27. Read very well

Can you help answer the question that I asked teekrayne?

Ayomivic:
iam sorry for taken this long
before reply you.
I think we leave this matter as
mystery as trueman had said
because i do not accept your
explannations, if we are to
countinue,the more you say the more question i will have to ask

No problem Bro.

How is these matter a mystery is it that the bible did not tell us about who jesus is?.
Bro, you can ask as many questions as ull like to ask, ill try my best to answer you using the scriptures as guide.

Trustman is wrong , very very wrong .

Proverb 8 you quoted to back your statement that Jesus was existing as entity in heave before taken human flesh and came down to the world is not accepted by me. That Bible chapter is not refering to Jesus, its refering to wisdom and understanding read it from verse one you will understand it. It continue to chapter 9. The other verses you gave does not mean Jesus is existing as an entity when hn was in spirit form

John 1:2 says : this one was in the biggining "with" God. It did not say "in " God .

John 6: 62 says: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was
before?

Now did jesus ascend to where he was before? Yes
Did he exist as a separate person when he ascended to where he was before ? Yes

The LORD said unto my Lord,
Sit thou on my right hand, till I
make thine enemies thy
footstool? - Matt 22:44.

"But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and
Jesus standing at the right hand of God, and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”- acts 7: 55,56.

If jesus was part of God and not a separate person, who is God talking to here then : “Let us make man in our image,
according to our likeness, - gen 1:26 .

Back to the matter of "wisdom". Who or what do you think this wisdom is ? How do you explain ur view with what is written in proverbs 8 22-31 .?

i asked you how Jesus is only begotten son of God, you did not answer the question. I did not say you said it in your previous written but i was asking you how God begotten Jesus if he is/was only begotten of father or that one is title also?

By virtue of Jesus being the
sole direct creation of his
Father, the firstborn Son
Jesus was unique, different
from all others of God’s sons,
all of whom were created or
begotten by God through that
firstborn Son. So “the Word”
was Gods “only- begotten
Son” .

If Jesus being the word is a title that means he would be the mouth of God on earth as you explained what were the other prophets that came befeore him, were they not God's mouth on earth?

Most of those prophets got their message from jesus and the angels. Read rev 1:1

Dophinheart i believe you and I cannot reach agreement on this matte.r it better we settle it by agree its mystery.

Lets use the bible to determine our beliefs. Let us find out from the bible the truth about jesus . There are other bible verses I quoted which you did not respond on.

CAPTIVATOR:
Eeyah , I know thats due to somtin personal , but there are many brothers that missed the conventions too but enjoyed reading the notes from those who have attend theirs , on that forum . You can try it .

But I think the convention release will be updated on jw.org for the benefit of our brothers and sisters that couldnt attend .

Yep. There is a reason Bro.
Ill get someone to go along with a cam .

CAPTIVATOR:
Fine o , how is the family and congregation ? Lets thank Jehovah that regional convention will now kick off in Nigeria this month .

Have read alot of beautiful things regarding that convention from my fellow bros and sisters in Europe . Its great , are you on jwtalk (a Jehovah witnesses forum) ?

Family is cool Bro.
Will be missing the convention again this year.
No I'm not on jwtalk.

(1) New International Version
"Beyond all question, the
mystery from which true
godliness springs is great: He
appeared in the flesh, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was preached
among the nations, was
believed on in the world, was
taken up in glory."
(1973, 1978, 1984, 2011)
* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not found here.


(2)New American Standard
Bible
By common confession, great
is the mystery of godliness: He
who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels, Proclaimed
among the nations, Believed
on in the world, Taken up in
glory."
* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not found here.

(3)Common English Bible (CEB)
Without question, the mystery
of godliness is great: he was
revealed as a human, declared
righteous by the Spirit, seen by
angels, preached throughout the
nations, believed in around the
world, and taken up in glory.
(2011)
* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not found here.

(4)Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
"Great beyond all question is
the formerly hidden truth
underlying our faith:
He was manifested physically
and proved righteous
spiritually, seen by angels
and proclaimed among the nations, trusted throughout the world and raised up in glory to heaven.
(1998)
* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not found here.


(5) Douay-Rheims Bible
"And evidently great is the
mystery of godliness, which
was manifested in the flesh,
was justified in the spirit,
appeared unto angels, hath
been preached unto the
Gentiles, is believed in the
world, is taken up in glory."

* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not used here.

(6)Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
Christ was shown to us in human form;[a] the Spirit proved that he was right; he was seen by angels. The message about him was told to
the nations; people in the world believed in him; he was taken up to heaven in glory.
( 2006 )
* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not used here.

(7)English Standard Version
(ESV)
"Great indeed, we confess, is
the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh,[a]vindicated by the Spirit, [b][c]seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world,taken up in glory."
(2001)
* the Greek word "theos"(god) is not used here.

(Expanded Bible (EXB)
"Without doubt [or And we all
agree], ·the secret of our life of
worship [or the truth revealed in our faith/worship; L the mystery of godliness; v. 9] is great [C what follows may be from an early Christian hymn]:
He ·was shown to u [appeared; was revealed] in ·a human body [T the flesh], [a] ·proved right [vindicated] ·in spirit [or by the Spirit], and seen by angels. He was proclaimed ·to
[among] the ·nations [Gentiles], believed in ·by [or in; throughout] the world, and taken up in glory.
(2011)

(9)Good News Translation (GNT)
"No one can deny how great is
the secret of our religion: He appeared in human form, was shown to be right by the Spirit,[a] and was seen by angels.
He was preached among the
nations, was believed in
throughout the world, and was taken up to heaven.

(10) Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
"And most certainly, the
mystery of godliness is great:
He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.(1999, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2009)

(11)International Children’s Bible (ICB)
"Without doubt, the secret of
our life of worship is great: He was shown to us in a human body,[a] proved right by the Spirit, and seen by angels. He was preached to the nations,
believed in by the world, and taken to heaven in glory.
(1986, 1988, 1999, 2015 )

(13) J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
"No one can deny that this
religion of ours is a tremendous mystery, resting as it does on the one who showed himself as a human being, and met, as such, every demand of the Spirit in the
sight of angels as well as of men. Then, after his restoration to the Heaven from whence he came, he has been proclaimed among men of different nationalities and
believed in all parts of the world."

(14) Lexham English Bible (LEB)
"And most certainly, great is
the mystery of godliness: Who was revealed in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, [a] was seen by angels, was proclaimed among the Gentiles , [b] was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.(2012)

(15)Living Bible (TLB)
"It is quite true that the way to
live a godly life is not an easy
matter. But the answer lies in
Christ, who came to earth as a
man, was proved spotless and
pure in his Spirit, was served by angels, was preached among the nations, was accepted by men everywhere, and was received up again to his glory in heaven.
(1971)


(16) New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
"Undeniably great is the
mystery of devotion,

Who was manifested
in the flesh, [a] vindicated in the spirit, seen by angels,
proclaimed to the Gentiles,
believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory.
(2010, 1991, 1986,
1970)

(17) New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised Catholic Edition (NRSVACE)
"Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great: He was revealed in flesh, [a] vindicated in spirit, [b] [c] seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles,
believed in throughout the
world, taken up in glory.
(1989, 1993, 1995 )
* even this version does not have the word "God " in the verse.

(18)New Living Translation
Without question, this is the
great mystery of our faith:
Christ was revealed in a human body and vindicated by
the Spirit. He was seen by
angels and announced to the
nations. He was believed in
throughout the world and
taken to heaven in glory.

(19) English Standard Version
Great indeed, we confess, is
the mystery of godliness: He
was manifested in the flesh,
vindicated by the Spirit, seen
by angels, proclaimed among
the nations, believed on in the
world, taken up in glory.

(20) Berean Study Bible
By common confession, the
mystery of godliness is great:
He appeared in the flesh, was
vindicated by the Spirit, was
seen by angels, was
proclaimed among the nations,
was believed in throughout the
world, was taken up in glory.
........................

Still many more ,but 20 versions quoted so far have not included or have removed the word "god" in 1 timothy 3:16.

Why is this?
Some versions stated that some manuscripts has the word "god "(theos)" in that verse. but why are they not putting it , why do they refuse to put "God" there like some few translations do?.
Any one who is humble and searches for truth will try to find answers to these questions

May jehovah continue to guide me as I try my best to reply you, primarily not because of you but because of numerous humble ones reading this thread .
You might want to turn the discussion to argument, but I hope my non abusive and non derogatory words will make you understand me .

Emusan:
See the reason why I said I HATE HYPOCRITE, you
accuse me of USING the word
that was not used DIRECTLY in
the scripture, now I challenge
you to give use where the
word ANNOINTED
CHRISTIANS was DIRECTLY
used in the scripture but what
we got is [b]BRINGING MANY
VERSES to prove it.

Like I said in before, ill say it again , the question posed to you is done to ascertain the truth as to the words you used , if it is from the bible or not and if it conforms/ have same meaning with the words in the bible. You asked Me the same question in ur previous post and you and everyone can see how i answered you . I told you those words where my explanation and added scriptures to show you why those words where appropriate as it conforms with what the scripture says.

I started by asking you two questions:
Do you have any verse(s) that
supports the statements:
(a)"took on flesh"
(b)became part of creation?

A simple answer to state that "they are my views but this are the scriptural basis for my views" with the scriptures then provided would have solved it .but you did not do that, you just went on to state this :

"Attacking strawman, @bold how can view/understanding of verse be found in the scripture?
When you yourself did the
same below."

This is why I said I'm right to say that those words you used where not in the bible and where just ur own words. This is said so that others learning from our disscusion will know the truth.

Up till now you have not provided scriptural support for ur views. You can still do so if you still wish to do so .

I then asked you the next question : what do you understand by "word became flesh"?

You say

he took a share in humanity

Thus I asked you to give us more understanding on what you mean by "took a share in humanity".
This was asked so that i and others can have a better understanding of ur view and relate it with " the word became flesh"

This you have not answered also, but can if you still want to answer it .

Now @bold-You have to
PERSONALLY explained and
AGREE WITH THE USE OF
ANNOINTED CHRISTIANS not
that the word as you used it
CAN BE FOUND the scripture.
This is HYPOCRITE in its
highest form.

I personaly explained using the scriptures to back my explanation, did I not?. Pls use the scriptures to back up ur views as asked above and let's leave this up and down argument pls.

How do you know I can't, when you first attack strawman with false accusation and later asking me to explain myself.
This is how an hypocrite
behaves, when you first saw
the word TOOK ON FLESH
your own is to ask "can you
explain what you mean by
TOOK ON FLESH?" Then if I
fail to do so, you can then spew all the thrash you've been saying since.
I never claimed that my word
was used DIRECTLY IN THE
SCRIPTURE nor I can't explain
what I mean by TOOK ON
FLESH.
If something like this repeat
itself I won't reply you any more because if I do I might say whatI shouldn't have said.

If you feel I've accused you wrongly , Jo ma binu, but pls can you now explain ur view using the scriptures.?

Again, did I say MY USE OF TOOK ON FLESH was based on John 1:14 I see this as pure nonsense I've repeated
myself many time that my use
of that WORD WAS NOT ON
ANY SCRIPTURE but just to
EXPLAIN (which you did in
above) how Jesus was not part
of CREATION.
In fact you keep boiling my
anger.
Like I said, the reason why
you're doing this is because
you've wrongfully thought I
TWISTED John 1:14 with that
my statement, which you're
totally missed it now you're
trying to justify your wrong
THOUGHT by bringing up
baseless point.

No vex Bro, now I understand that "the took on flesh" was not on any scripture .

@bold-The ANNOINTED
CHRISTIANS you used it is
bible phrase or how people
come with about it?
Who took you that TOOK ON
FLESH doesn't have a direct
meaning as being used in the
scripture?
Did you ask me to explain what
I mean by that before you start
your HYPOCRITICAL
behavior?

I believe I explained how I came about that sentence with the use of the scriptures . are there christians? Are some of these christians anointed ? Can we thus call them anointed christians?

It's what they call using
medicine after death, you
should've come low like this in
your first post but since you
have to find a way to cover up
how you wrongfully READ MY
MIND at first it has lead you to
this now.

Ok , no problem if you wunt tell me ur view on " the word became flesh "

Thank you for quoting this scripture which boldly shows how hypocritical you are! The verse says "...TOOK THE FORM OF MEN does this relate with my previous word TOOK ON FLESH?
Yet you will accusing someone
of CUTTING part.
Did you read the full part that
says Jesus emptied himself
Please which version did you
read that USED COMPLETELY?

Thank you for thanking me, but fact is you did not quote the scripture to support your views , if you feel the scripture is the bases for ur views , pls quote it and let's see, quote where you see "took the form of men "
And also "how did jesus come to earth with his divine nature"?

You cut part of a sentence.
I did not quote Phil 2: 7 . I said "the bible explains that Jesus completely "emptied himself and took the form of men".
If I where you , I would have asked me to explain using the scriptures why I said the word above as other words are present in my sentence and not present in the verse. I added the word "completely to my sentence to show you that I view the next word(s) to it (emptied) as a complete action , not half done, that jesus changed his nature completely and did not have any divine nature when coming to earth , but came to earth with the nature of a servant , flesh.
Phil 2:7- rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

What's ur view on the verse above?

And you have to ignore those scriptures I quoted without commenting on them but you're still wondered why I
couldn't comment on your
own too

Thus I leave others to examine the scriptures we both posted and decide for themselves. But ill leave you with this, jesus had a slaves form/nature(flesh form/nature) and u expect him to take that form back to heaven? naaaaaa!. He was given the glory he had before he came to earth, in a glorious spirit body.

What concern spirit those who are in heaven with the fact presented in that scripture?

I do not understand ur question , pls rephrase

The verse says THE MAN Jesus CHRIST since you and I know that they are spirit did I Apostle Paul who called the resurrected Jesus now in
heaven THE MAN didn't know
either?

The verses says :" the last adam, became a life giving spirit"

It then goes on to say :"The first man was of the dust of the earth;" ( this signifies that adam was made from the ground, he is flesh ) "the second man is of heaven". (this signifies that as at the moment this verse was written, jesus is not flesh).
It goes on to say.: And just as we have borne the image of the
earthly man, so shall we go
bear the image of the
heavenly man."
( this explains that while christians bear a fleshly body while on earth, they will not bear that body in heaven , they will have a spirit body . )

To butress the point above, an incident in the scriptures will be told below.

Jesus was asked an issue about marriage after ressurection and it ended with the question : " in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.

Jesus answered: " Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven."

Jesus said those to be ressurected in heaven will be as the angels. I leave it to you to now tell me what angels are, spirits or flesh.?

[qoute]Can you explain the @bold part especially, "heavenly man is as
those who are of heaven"?[/quote]First man, earthly man > adam

Last man, heavenly man > jesus

Jesus is as those who are of heaven , he is a spirit, with a body just like other spirit creatures in heaven.

Can they still be referred to as MAN once there in heaven?

I believe you read the word "heavenly man" as used in the verse.
Like I said and ill quote in full here. "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust".- 2 peter 1:4
Now what is the divine nature, and how are humans going to partake in it ?

Apostle said "Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air..."
The "WE WHO ARE ALIVE"
means those who have not
experienced DEATH. We know
that the body WILL BE
CHANGE just as Jesus own
was CHANGE but it's still
FLESH.

You urself said jesus flesh was ressurected, not that ressurected flesh got changed right ?. So me where it says jesus flesh Got changed .
Do you thing there is food and oxygen in heaven to sustain the human fleshly body . The flesh comes from the earth and will stay with the earth . No physical thing can go where the non physical things are.

1 Thessalonians 4:17

Will these people not die?

Romans 6:3-5
1 Corinthians 15:35, 36, 44,

So they must die before they can gain heavenly life. But there is no need for them to remain in the death state awaiting Christ’s return. They will instantly be “caught up,” “in the twinkling of an eye,” to be with the Lord.
1 Cor. 15:51, 52,-

Remember what paul said : I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
If you still feel flesh and blood go to heaven, then explain what this verse mean.

There's no one ever DIED and came back with HIS/HER BODY by being CHANGE from mortality to Immortality this is why Jesus was the first fruit to resurrected in such manner.

Sir did you not read that the last adam "became a life giving spirit !" ?
Is jesus not the last adam again?

He was a spirit before coming to earth, he emptied that nature and became flesh , after sacrificing that fleshly body he was raised up with a spirit body, a live giving spirit , the first of those ressurected in such manner .

New American Standard Bible
John 1:1 says "...and the word
was God". Do you agree?
I've noticed anytime it suit You
to use other version You do but discard the same version when it's being used in another place.
Whereas what I challenged
you for is FLESHLY BODIES
(Plural) which is after
RESURRECTION. Mr oga.

u sha want to argue , u see the word "fleshly body" as used by a translation , you accuse me of using translations as it suits me. U see the word "fleshly body" , you are looking for the plural .

Remember what If Angels actual materialized human FLESH and married then DEMATERIALIZED THEIR
HUMAN FLESH again that
means many heavenly being
have been given up their flesh
before Christ did.

They did not give it up , they can use it whenever it is neccessary.

I can't stop laughing sha, but the ONE HE MATERIALIZED is HUMAN FLESH also, and your organization's claim was that
the BODY OF Jesus WENT
INTO GAS (which does mean
DISPOSED OFF). So if Jesus
materialized in Human FLESH
and then disposed those so
what happened to HIS FIRST
BODY is still the same THAT
HAPPENED TO THE ONE HE
MATERIALIZED WITH MANY
TIME.

Ill like you to answer these questions.
Did jesus materialize the body that he sacrificed?
Can angels materialise physical bodies for themselves ?
Is this same materialised body by the angels same as the one jesus sacrificed ?

Jesus died and you believed because the verse says RAISED IN THE SPIRIT means He was resurrected AS A SPIRIT notice grammatical
change in that statement "IN
THE" to "AS A". Then I said
John who did not die but WAS
IN THE SPIRIT means he
change to A SPIRIT do you
agree?[quote]If you believe john changed into a spirit , that is ur believe, not mine . The verse says " raised in the spirit "
[quote]NOTE: Thank God you agree that IT'S NOT USED IN THE BIBLE BUT CAN BE EXPLAIN USING THE BIBLE, then the phrases "TOOK ON FLESH" did I say it can't be explain using the Bible? Mr hypocrite!
[hr /]
From here I have to start doing
copy and paste, if such thing
repeats itself I won't reply that
part again.
[hr /]
[quote]You didn't dodge it yet you couldn't answer my questions?
So Prophet Isaiah was wrong to say He will be called
EVERLASTING FATHER, right?
Has Jesus stop been an
EVERLASTING FATHER
simple?
Have you called Him
EVERLASTING FATHER for
once?

Pls address the issue on who jesus says we should call father

UNCONNECTED TO THE CURRENT SUBJECT...
Anyway, that's your own cup of beans.

You are the one who raised it up, you even asked me a question on it.

Don't use someone else voice.
Use the bible
1 cor 8:6
But to us(including me) there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Two persons , (but one is my God and he is the father)
Two positions , two different Phrases ascribed to them .
My God is the father, he is the supreme being , the almighty , there is no other almighty beside him.

But why didn't you ADD in MY OWN VIEW to post so that people can see that you're the one who drawn the conclusion by yourself not me?
Not only wrong but it entails
false statements.
For the last time, I've said
before the Father is SUPERIOR
to the Son. I don't know your
problem again.

Haba, but I just told you that if my view of ur statement "answered is wrong, pls post what you mean by "answered," argument no suppose dey this one again.

Honestly, I don't know why simple English is so hard for you to comprehend.
Any open-minded person
reading my post knew that I've
answered your question but the problem you're having with
simple English is the one
causing this problem for you.
Jesus is the POWER OF GOD
how can God superior to His
own power?
The man Jesus as Bible says
that the act of Creation was
done through Him, the same
Bible says THROUGH
KNOWLEDGE which means
Jesus is the knowledge of God, can God superior to His own knowledge?

If you say jesus is equal to God in power, why did he say these
"As thou hast given him power
over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him."
If jesus is the knowledge of God, why did he not know about when the end will come? Why did is he learning from the father.

Rightly the apostle could speak of Jesus as “the power of God and the wisdom of God.”— 1Co 1:24.

Jesus proved to be the long-
awaited Messiah, Jehovah’s
Anointed One, foretold to
manifest the ‘spirit of
mightiness.’

"1 And there shall come forth a
rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:
2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;
3 And shall make him of quick
understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears:
4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and
faithfulness the girdle of his reins.- Isa 11:1-5)
As such, it could be expected that he would have powerful
testimony to support that fact.
( Mic 5:2-5;, Joh 7:31.)
Already by means of Jesus’ birth from a virgin Jewess, God had begun testifying on his Son’s behalf. ( Lu 1:35-37)And this perfect descendant of David would be the heir to an everlasting Kingdom.— Lu 1:31-33.
Jesus’ anointing by God’s spirit was accompanied by divine power.
" How God anointed Jesus of
Nazareth with the Holy Ghost
and with power: who went
about doing good, and healing
all that were oppressed of the
devil; for God was with him.- Ac 10:38.
Read Luke 24:19; John6:14

Jesus constantly acknowledged God as the
Source of his powerful works.
John 5:19, 26; John 7:28, 29; John9:3, 4; John 14:10
Honest persons recognized “the majestic power of God” manifested through him.
Luke 9:43; Luke 19:37; John 3:2; John 9:28-33; Luke 1:68;
Luke 7:16
You can see why jesus is called power of God and still he recieves power from from .
I wonder why you say jesus is God , and he is the power of God at the same time .

You agree Jesus has not STOPPED to be called
EVERLASTING FATHER.
Your second answer, do you
mean He has not started
fulfilling the reason? The same
verse is where JWs derived
MIGHTY GOD. You can called
Jesus Mighty God now but you
believe He has not started to
fulfill the reason to be called
EVERLASTING FATHER.
Which one, Jesus or the
Father? Since both are
EVERLASTING FATHER and
now in heaven.

You asked questions, I answered , then I asked mine, pls answer before you ask further questions.

Which words did I cut here? It's very simple, you HONOUR FATHER in what ever way seems good to you but the fact from that scripture is which ever way you honour the
Father (let conscience
convince you) THE SON
SAYS HONOUR HIM THE
SAME WAY.

Quote the scriptures the way it is quoted in the scriptures.

Imaging YOU HAVE COME WITH ANOTHER LIE, "the verse that mentions heaven and earth when talking about the authority giving to Jesus after his resurection didn't say ABSOLUTE."
Then I asked you which you
have been dodging since, what
is the DIFFERENT BETWEEN
Absolute and ALL?

If I'm wrong , quote the scriptures to prove me wrong , and let's see if there is absolute in any translation that talked about the authority giving to jesus after ressurection .

Was the translation you used wrong by using the word
ABSOLUTE?

Dnt know, do u know ?.

The next ridiculous statement now is that the Father is the only one having SUPREME Authority the Son only has ALL Authority.
Jesus will forgive you all these
things you're denying Him sha.
Please where is the scripture
the WORD SUPREME
AUTHORITY can be found? Mr.
first class hypocrite.
This is evident that you can go
to any length just to use your
mouth deny Jesus all what
make Him equal to the Father.
ALL POWER AND AUTHORITY
belong to God and since Jesus
HAS ALL AUTHORITY AND HE
IS THE POWER OF GOD. It's
evident that He is God Almighty.
*He who testifies to these things says, "Surely I am coming quickly." Amen. Even so, come,
Lord Jesus!*

The answer to these question will solve this: is jesus, as he is in heaven now, still subjected to the one who gave him all authority ?

Emusan:
Since I said something about the thread so no answer to what I said, right?

Pls treat the abo wa ba part so we can continue our bible based discussion .
if you feel the organization does nothing good. Say it . If you feel they do something good, let's hear the good things.

JMAN05:
Sometimes i don't add to wot they know since dey are not sincere. Better still I put it in form of question and send them to research it, if dey come back still with error, and especially if dey are not humble, I won't tell dem d answer. So dat dey can continue jumping dat dey know when dey are celebrating error. Give those things to those who are honest hearted, they would value it. Don't give wot is holy to dogs.

When Jesus meet obstinate pharisees, he atimes ask them question to silence them or even shorten his reply, because they aren't sincere. Time is better spent with one who is sincere. Ask him how many times I ve ask for a calm discussion with him. That's how u know a sincere person, he didn't accept a calm discussion, but he keep replying to our write-ups. Meaning that he wants to attack u, but he is not sincere to know what d bible has to say on d matter. A sincere person will even pray to have a calm discussion with u. I limit my comments to such people, they are better left in d dark.

Thanks

@ ayomivic , can I Go to the next question now? @ teekrayne . No reply to my question yet?

Hard to believe, I was born in sin, not level playing ground . I lived for less than a hundred years. Yet I will be burnt for a billion times a billion years for Sins I did in less than hundred years.
Even humans who are created in his image cannot do that, talk less of a God full of love and justice .
No wonder he said he has not thought of such a thing when he the isrealites allowed their children pass through fire.

What is hell, What words(Hebrew or Greek )Signify hell and what is the meaning.?
What part of man goes there, the body , soul or spirit, or the whole 3. ?
Which part of man controls his consciousness?
When did God create hell? Before Adams sin or after?

JMAN05:
U should have left him in the dark cos he doesn't value the truth.

I think ill do that. I've tried enough .

CAPTIVATOR:
long tyme my bros , how you doing ?

I'm cool Bro, how ur side?

Jehovah’s Witnesses are a
Christian denomination whose
followers comply with strict
doctrines rejecting political
participation and national
governments and refusing to
serve in the military. The Nazis
found Jehovah’s Witnesses’
pacifism, rejection of nationalism, and adherence to an internationalist doctrine a
challenge to their demands for
fanatical loyalty to the German
state.
On 1 April 1935 the Nazis made
it illegal to be a Jehovah’s
Witness. Thousands were
imprisoned or murdered for their refusal to swear allegiance to the Nazi regime or to participate in military combat. Jehovah’s Witnesses faced an impossible decision. They could only secure their own release by renouncing
their faith. Most refused and
faced continued imprisonment or execution.
Approximately 2,000 Jehovah’s Witnesses were murdered under the Nazi regime, 250 of whom were executed for refusing to
take part in armed conflict.


http://hmd.org.uk/genocides/jehovah’s-witnesses

That war would not have happened and if it did uccor , not in that scale if most people have acted the way the jehovahs witnesses have acted .
Most people who believe jesus is God participated in that war that killed millions upon millions in ways unimaginable .

Emusan:
See another excuse, was my points only on the ORGANIZATION?

At least I still said something about the thread. I know you're looking for a way out here and all the roads have been blocked.

So answer my point and don't boycott the part of the organization BECAUSE YOU ACCUSED ME OF HATING THE ORGANIZATION OR ME NEVER SAID ANY GOOD THING ABOUT THEM here on this thread. So prove me wrong with what I said about them (Pastor Russell and his follower did TEACH THE WORSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST BASED ON SCRIPTURE, true or false?). Then people can see your allegation as fact here.

You said something about the thread, let's focus on that and treat the "abo wa ba" part.
I wonder where I said you "hate" the organization . Really wonder.

I asked you if there is anything good about the organization and if you can mention it , but you sha want to talk about the organization without answering me.

Emusan:
For goodness sake; did I say my word was used directly in the scripture
You know why you shouldn't be taken serious? Because you're an hypocrite! You've been talking about the WORD I used which I've said IT'S JUST AN EXPLANATION not scripture WORD but you keep
hammering on it as if I
CLAIMED IT CAN BE FOUND in
the scripture which I was
unable to provide, though not
that I can't explain my
statement but I see it as a
strawman attack.
Whereas, you yourself have
used WORDS THAT CAN BE
FOUND IN THE SCRIPTURE I
don't want to disturb myself
search previous post but I
remember this particular one
vividly.
You said this: Jesus is the first
fruit ressurected in the spirit
and annointed christians hope
to follow this form of
ressurection Now I challenge
you to provide the scripture
where ANNOINTED CHRISTIAN
appears. Failure to do so show
that you're really a chronicle
HYPOCRITE.

So I'm right to say those words
where were never used in the
scriptures.
When we use words in our explanations that have
different meaning to one used in the scriptures , it creates
confusion.

Now to anointed christians :
Jesus footstep followers who have been spirit begotten and anointed with holy spirit can be spoken of as anointed ones.

"Now he which stablisheth us
with you in Christ, and hath
anointed us, is God;- 2Co 1:21

This ones("us" are annointed
This "us" are christians
Thus I can say those people being reffered to in that verse are " annointed Christians".

"But the anointing which ye
have received of him abideth
in you, and ye need not that
any man teach you: but as the
same anointing teacheth you
of all things, and is truth, and is. no lie, and even as it hath
taught you, ye shall abide in
him." -1Jo 2:27

So I can personaly explain that those who where Anointed where also called christians and can thus be called "anointed christians " by me.
Bet you hear when some people say "touch not my anointed " when reffering to their church leaders . Are the church leaders not christians?

This you can't do with "took on flesh" as the meaning of "took on flesh" is different from "became flesh".

I did not hammer on need of direct bible quotation, I only wanted to use that question to get things straight , so that others would not have use words that have a different meaning in explaining.
The word u used have different meaning from "became flesh", so I had to first made it clear that the words "took on flesh" is not in the scriptures.
The issue on exact bible words are not to make you look wrong, but to clear some bible phrases and let us know that the words we use, even though it is not present in the scriptures, It must has direct meaning with the ones used in the scritures and also tells the same thing as the scriptures is telling us.

You don't need since you're here to attack strawman.

I need it, it will help me to understand you better so can you post it again and tell us how the word became flesh?

Then did I say the scripture says the word TOOK ON FLESH? I know the reason you're fighting a lost battle here is because you've
wrongfully thought I TWISTED
John 1:14 to mean that statement out of you own ignorance whereas I was only explaining myself about how Jesus was not PART OF CREATION before His
life on earth.
That's how you keep saying "I
THOUGHT YOU MEAN" as you
own my MIND the same thing
has landed you in another
problem.

Good, I now understand that you where explaining how "jesus was not part of creation before his life on earth".
Can you now explain what the scripture meant by the "word became flesh"?

Again you're still in that dark side,
Jesus didn't come to earth in
FLESH in my statement means
"why His life before living on
earth is not in FLESH.
Remember there was a
statement that lead to that of
mine. Get life!

I did not ask you jesus nature before coming to earth .

You said : jesus came to earth not with his flesh?

I asked : so what did jesus come to earth with?

You said : with his divine nature.

That's y I said : So Jesus came to earth with his divine nature and no longer took the form of men again?

Cus john 1:14 says - The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of
the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
The bible also explains that jesus completely "emptied himself and took the form of men"
To me this explains that jesus came to earth not with a divine nature, but as flesh . This is why there was an actual conception in the womb of Mary.

Waooo waoooo, you couldn't prove those scriptures wrong but you have to pile up another episodes just out of your fable
mind.

Those episodes are backed up with scriptural quotes . one wonders why you refuse to comment on them .

@bold 1-The scripture says THE MAN NOTE: This is after His resurrection, so Jesus is still MAN NOW IN HEAVEN!
Clear verse to JWs who think
Jesus was raised in the spirit.

Read 1 cor 15: 45 - 49
"So it is written: “The first
man Adam became a living
being” f ; the last Adam, a life-
giving spirit. 46 The spiritual
did not come first, but the
natural, and after that the
spiritual. 47 The first man was
of the dust of the earth; the
second man is of heaven.
48 As was the earthly man, so
are those who are of the earth;
and as is the heavenly man,
so also are those who are of
heaven. 49 And just as we
have borne the image of the
earthly man, so shall we g
bear the image of the
heavenly man."

Here jesus is presently a life giving spirit, not flesh.
Here , the man , heavenly man is as those who are of heaven. Me and you both know that those who are of heaven are spirits, only spirits reside in heaven. Jehovah, jesus, the seraps, angels and demons (previously) all reside(d) in heaven , they are all spirits . No flesh and blood among them .

This is why those who will go to heaven must share in the divine nature . They must be ressurected with spirit bodies to enter heaven, for flesh and blood cannot enter there.
This is why they will be among the first resurrection.
Jesus, the first to be ressurected in such manner (firstfruit) will be followed by others who will be ressurected in such manner too. For why call jesus firstfruit if there are no others ressurected in such manner.

@bold 2-You accuse me of using TOOK ON FLESH because the word was never used like tha in the scripture many times here, please can you show us where the word FLESHLY BODIES? directly used in the scriptures?

New American Standard
Bible
"Yet He has now reconciled
you in His fleshly body through
death, in order to present you
before Him holy and
blameless and beyond
reproach--" Col 1 :22

Lastly, since it is DIFFERENT FLESHLY BODIES that means Jesus' sacrifice was done more than ONE because those BODIES WON'T go with Him back to heaven as He was appearing to people, according to Paul's statement you used earlier "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God ". and this will contradict Heb 7:27 that says "... for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself."
This is the reason the theory of
FLESHLY BODIES (Plural) is
ridiculous.

you forgot where I said angels have the power to materialise fleshly bodies. They Can also dematerialise those bodies. Remember, angels impregnated women during noah time.
The body jesus materialised was not the same that was sacrificed , he appears and dissapears at will,even when the doors where locked, something he did only after his ressurection.
He did not contradict Hebrews, no fleshly body was offered twice.

And you will continue to have issue until you begin to use everything up there. The key point here is IN THE SPIRIT For Instance, John said I was IN THE SPIRIT did he become a
spirit?

No, the issue is " raised in the spirit" .
John did not say he was "raised in the spirit".
Dnt cut part of the sentence off.

Hypocrite, show me where the word ANNIONTED CHRISTIANS is used in the scripture.

It is not used in the bible, the sentence can be explained using the bible . Now can you tell why Jesus is the firstfruit in relation to those ressurected.?

Again, another way of dodging question I won't allow you to do that trust me.
Isaiah 9:6 says Jesus is
EVERLASTING FATHER, you
believe Jesus was not before but became at a time but now that He is called EVERLASTING FATHER, IS Jesus STILL EVERLASTING FATHER in HEAVEN or Prophet Isaiah was wrong to have said He will be called EVERLASTING
FATHER?
How many FATHER DO YOU
NOW HAVE IN HEAVEN?
Those are the questions you're
trying to dodge.[quote]I did not dodge ur questions, in fact I used the scriptures to explain my view .
I, like jesus believe that the father is the only father we have in heaven. You can believe we have more than one father, you can take as many fathers in heaven as you want . But I follow jesus teaching , the father, his father in heaven is our only father, he is the only one we should call father, he is the only true God.
When you accept what jesus said, about the one we should call father. Then we will move on to other aspect like why jesus will be called everlasting father.

[quote]Imaging a believer who can say the Father is INCIDENTALLY the only true God. So when was this INCIDENT occur?[/quote ]

Definition of the word "incidentally " as used as part of my statement :
incidentally - /ɪnsɪˈdɛnt(ə)li/

used to add a further comment
or a remark unconnected to the current subject; by the way.

[quote]So it only helps us not that it says the actual one to be worshiped, then did you ask yourself why Jesus was grouped together with the Father with the phrase
"whom are all things, and we
by him." I know you'll argue of
the words OF and BY
Is like Jesus and the Father are
rival because everything about
the Father is also about the Him.

Those verses are simple and clear, it tells me who my God is it tells me that there are many Gods, but from those many Gods only one of them is my God , my God is the father, he is the only God . Me and you agree that jesus is not the father. I worship my God, I worship the father .

I've always and will continue to tell you , do not cut part of a statement off. That method is used by those who want to give a different meaning from what the original statement is trying to tell us.
One phrase is with "of" and "in" while the other phrase is with "by". They are different phrases and not totally composed with the same words.

Where did I say it If you can't provide it the lie of your
organization is working in you
seriously.

I did not say you said it. I'm of the view that you typed "answered " to affirm my view on the question . If my view is wrong , then pls tell us ur view on the question I asked before you typed "answered" .

The point I raised on this is as crystal cleared but for fable mind like yours you'll still find it hard.
Jesus is the Power of God and
through (Jesus) knowledge the
world was made.

I ask a question , not asked for a point .
apart from authority , is there any other aspect in which the father is superior to the son, for example, knowledge and power? The answer to that question is important.

You agree that Jesus is in HEAVEN NOW!
Isaiah said Jesus is called
EVERLASTING FATHER, then I
ask has Jesus stopped being
an EVERLASTING FATHER? If
Yes! When? If No! Then How
many FATHER DO YOU HAVE
IN HEAVEN? Simple!
These are the simple thing haveasked you but you keep
perambulating since.

1st Q: no
2nd Q : when he began fufilling the reason he will caller everlasting father .
3rd Q: only one .

Now answer mine, why are those going to heaven called jesus brothers, can we ever day the father has brothers?.

You only differentiate the honour you give to the Father and that of the Son you didn't say the honour you give the JUST AS YOU GIVE THE FATHER Jesus said "that all should honor the Son JUST AS they honor the Father." and DEEP DOWN YOUR HEART YOU KNOW HOW YOU HAVE BEEN HONOURING the Father so Jesus said HONOUR HIM THE WAY YOU HAVE BEEN DOING TO THE FATHER, that's
scriptural TRUTH.

When you quote the words in full as said in the bible, you will understand . Stop this cut cut thing you are doing .

OK! But limiting your point to that verse alone is far from it when you know Jesus said else where that (Not only on earth as you're trying to twist the scripture but IN
HEAVEN AND ON EARTH) ALL
AUTHORITY... which I asked is
there a difference between
ABSOLUTE and ALL which you
couldn't reply.

I do not twist words , that translation where you find "absolute ", he made it in reference with the authority to to judge,the verse also did not mention heaven and earth .
The verse that mentions heaven and earth when talking about the authority giving to jesus after his ressurection did not say "absolute" . If I'm wrong , pls quote it and let's see if this is my personal twist or i said it as the verses said it .

I've already told you The Father is SUPERIOR TO THE SON.
In fact Jesus claimed HE HAS
ALL AUTHORITY means He is
God since ONLY GOD CAN
HAVE ALL AUTHORITY.
Whether the AUTHORITY WAS
GIVEN OR NOT, HE still has IT
since you agree that The Father has not collected the Authority.
Answer my questions and don't boycott it,
-ONLY GOD has ALL
AUTHORITY, true or false?
-DOES Jesus HAVE ALL
AUTHORITY?
-How many people do you
have in heaven HAVING ALL
AUTHORITY?

Q1: false, only God has supreme authority . He gave all authority to his son . (check explanation below )

Q2: yep, he was giving
Q3: just one .

Jesus has been giving all authority by the father, but jesus is still subjected to that one that gave him all authority . Therefore jesus is not the supreme being , the father is .
Jesus is thus not the almighty God as he (even as he is in heaven) has a superior , a God , who is the father.
The god I and jesus worship is the almighty God .

johnw74:
"My accusation , your accusation,"

are you posting under diffrent user names or are you just very confused.

post quotes so I may know what you are talking about.


I don't read all your posts, especially those long ones.

I mentioned the different ways or method that people use to defend their belief that jesus is God . Those methods contradict each but those people refuse to tell each other that their views and methods are wrong .
I've asked you if you believe that jesus is the same as the father as explained by some and accused you that you have not refuted/challenged their explanations.

Of the three methods I mentioned , you accused me that the first one was made up by me . Now that someone else has made use of the same method to explain his belief that jesus is god , will you redraw ur accusation to me as it is evident I did not make it up?

Will you also prove my accusation above wrong by telling doubledrex that he is wrong, or is he right to say jesus is a part of God ?

johnw74:
Your sect changed Bible verses,
Your blindness is getting worse, go back and take a look

So the sect was successful enough to change the words of 1 Tim 3:16 in most bible translations, even in translations made by known trinitarians? Wow, what a very powerful sect !

johnw74:
I know you don't see the verses I posted showing that the word "God" belongs there:



You have been blinded

You posted a wrong translation of 1 Tim 3:16.
In the older manuscripts , the word "God " is not found there .
And in the manuscript where the word exist, it was found out that that word was later added to that verse and was not there originaly.
Go find out the truth .

Shymm3x:
A trusted school of thought believes 9/11 was orchestrated MOSSAD and by top folks in the US and a false flag for US incursion into MENA. And there are a lot of proofs to back it up. Not saying I believe this theory - just using it as a preamble. That was the beginning of the never ending war on terror and all the crisis in that region.

Arab Spring was the fictitious name given to an uprising funded by the US. There was no Arab Spring in Syria and Libya - those folks were paid agents for regime change. And that became a geopolitical war for vested interests and regional powers. Ditto super powers. So they are all to blame.

Iran couldn't have done what the Saudis did in Bahrain cos unlike the Saudis, they have no international backing and the Western media to black it out from mainstream media. If they had gone into Syria when the crisis started - they would have made it an Iranian problem and it would have been an excuse for the West to intervene militarily. And don't forget Bahrain is a very small country - while Syria on the other hand is one of the biggest countries in that region and somewhat a regional power as well. So for Iran to pull anything off there, it would have been supremely expensive and tasking. And I don't think a country under back breaking sanctions would have been able to pull it off.

Hope you mind my asking:
What did the saudis do or say about the crises in libya and syria. Did they follow that same policy on the crises in bahrain and yemen?
I do not support what the us did in the middle east militarily , but the saudis do allow them to have military presence there, why?
Did the saudis support the u.s when they invaded Iraq?

Emusan:
This is what you can do to bail yourself out from those points I raised up there, keep it coming!

Now go back to that post and address my points if not for get about yours because I don't why you want me to address your points but ignore mine.

I know you want to boycott it because I've said what your founder and his predecessor did.

That's one thing new generation JWs don't want hear.

the abo wa ba questions is what we are interested in on this thread, let's not divert .

I only asked the question about the organization cus I wanted you to tell me if they dnt do anything Good, and if they do anything good can you mention it ?
This you did not say, but the main issue is the abo wa ba part which ill be waiting for ur reply on .
There is no need to try and boycott an issue that is not the basis of our discussion in the first place.

johnw74:
@bold, your sect did, same thing.

The sect did what?

johnw74:
1Ti 3:16 ....God was manifest in the flesh....

God is the right word for 1Ti 3:16

Joh 1:1 ....and the Word was God.
Joh 1:14 And the Word was made flesh....

I believe you are learned enough to dig into things and find out the truth. Ill encourage you one more time to find out why most translations removed the word "god" from their translations of 1 Tim 3: 16.

Emusan:
So you have to quote TRANSLATION YOU'RE NOT USED TO and you couldn't check the wording very well. That's how your organization behave I'm sorry to say it again.

@bold- Only God has ALL or ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY, TRUE or FALSE?



Now the AUTHORITY HAS BEEN LIMITED only TO JUDGE... SMH



Apology accepted, but you haven't apologize for wrongly accuse me.



This is ABO WA BA in Yoruba means we'll trash this later.



I don't have issue with your organization but putting the light of the scripture in the eyes of the people whom those who opposes the truth or perverted the Word of God have covered.



Maybe because they fall in the category of those people I mentioned above.
Beside, Devil is a liar and the father of it. Your organization lies a lot maybe you know it but the fear of dis-fellowship still holding you back or you don't know which you can challenge me to provide the evidence. Can God lie?



Every human being are not perfect but when God USED anybody the outcome is perfect, your organization claimed to be used by God but still lying and changing previous message, is that how God works?

My first post on this thread about the OP was "New generation of JWs don't worship Jesus but their founder Russell and his successors do so for over good 50years.

I wonder who is right between the founder and the followers or should I call it confusion, and the fate of those JWs who have been taught that worshiping Jesus is scriptural.

If it is Jehovah that truly called Russell, why Jehovah couldn't tell him that worshiping Jesus is idolatry but allowed Russell to die as an idolater?

NOTE: Am I lying about this? Is this how God works in the history of man?




You have your life you can do anything you like with it.

Will wait for the abo wa ba

The picture of that little kid lying dead on the beach brought tears to my eyes. Why! Why! Why! Are they killing each other.
would have understood if these war was a war between 2 countries or economic or tribal warfare.

Why are some leaving the middle east for Europe, why can't some countries In the middle east accept them except there immediate neighbours

DoubleDeeX:
Jesus Christ is the manifestation of God the Father in the flesh (Human form) just as bottle water is still water but in a container! That's the mystery of Godliness! God manifested in the flesh for the purpose of our salvation...which is why it is written that those who worship Him must do it in truth and in spirit through Christ Jesus, the name for our salvation.

It's not given to all to understand the word of God. Only those who are spiritually alive would understand these mysteries...

The time is short...some people are still running in circles. Work out your salvation with fear a trembling brethren!

Shalom!

@ johnw74 , can you now see that I did not create that part of jesus being part of God like the ocean example?
Will you now retract ur accusation?
Do you accept the explanation by doubledeex or not.

If you do not accept, can you prove my accusation wrong by telling him that he is wrong?

johnw74:
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

1Jn 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.


Deu_6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Gal_3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Joh 10:30 I and my Father are one.

God is one,
the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spiritis is one
three persons, one God

because some don't understand the scriptures, they don't believe the scriptures, and they have changed what the scriptures say.

1 john 5:7 ? Is that what that verse says ?

johnw74:
Bingbagbo quoted scripture opposing yours and joz beliefs "God was manifest in the flesh"
well I'm glad that's one scripture you are not going to change.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

I do not change the scriptures , most translations do not have the word "God" in that verse. Go and find out why .

johnw74:
The 1 timothy 3:16 KJV verse that I posted is translated accurately from the Greek:

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery(musterion-secret) of godliness: God(theos-God) was manifest(phaneroo-appear) in the flesh,(sarx-meat, body) justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Only sectarians and non believers call the KJV a false translation.

Bro, the word "God" (theos ) is not present in the older, more original manuscripts . That is why most mordern translations translated after these older manuscript where found removed that word "god " from 1 Tim 3:16. You have been using that verse consistently without finding out why majority of bible translations did not put "god" (theos ) in that verse.

Even in the manuscript where such word was found , it was discovered that it was a Later addition , as the ink that was used to convert that word to theos is different from the ink used to write that part of the manuscript . Pls do an investigation and come post ur findings .

Emusan:
You got it this time but still learn how to make use of it fully because you're still giving me some tedious work of copy and paste.

Thanks for the encouragement

No there are yours! Like I pointed it out earlier you quite knew that it's just A VIEW NOT DIRECTLY quotation from the Bible but you still just want to attack strawman.

So I'm right to say those words where were never used in the scriptures.
When we use words that have different meaning to one used in the scriptures , it creates confusion. So please others should take note, words like "took on flesh" are not found in the scriptures.

I'm didn't tell you that my explanation is on that verse, did I? Continue to attack strawman again.

I did not see your explanation on that verse 'can you post it again and tell us how the word became flesh?

he took share in humanity

Can you please explain more on how jesus took a share in humanity? I need more explanation on how the word became flesh. Cus the scriptures did not say "the word took on flesh", neither did it say "the word entered flesh " . It said it "became flesh ".

His divine nature.

So jesus came to earth with his divine nature and no longer took the form of men
again?

Many proves are in the Bible for FLESHY resurrection of Jesus Christ
1. Jesus answered and said to
them, "Destroy this temple,
and in three days I will raise it
up." 20 Then the Jews said,
"It has taken forty-six years
to build this temple, and will
You raise it up in three
days?" 21 But He was
speaking of the temple of His
body. He didn't say "in three
days I will BUILD/FABRICATE/
GET another body but RAISE IT
UP.
2. He didn't fabricate another
BODIES (Plural-like your
organization teaches) but show
the same PRINTED NAILS and
side wounded body to the
doubting Thomas.
3. The tomb was empty which is
the evidence Jesus gave to the
eyes witness Disciples to
confirm His statement in John
2:19-21 that the TEMPLE will be
destroyed in three days and
raise it up. If Jesus' body
diffused into air as you believe
then Jesus is lying to have said
He will RAISE IT UP

Now to show you why jesus could not have been raised with a fleshly body .

Jesus said: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world,”
During his last meal with his disciples, he also said that his body will be "given ".

Jesus giving his fleshly body goes along with the this statement :Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Just as the blood of animals where sacrificed , jesus flesh and blood had to be sacrificed so that the ransom can be payed . Adam lost a perfect body, another perfect body had to be presented.

This giving of the body by jesus is why 1 Tim 2:5,6 says these : 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ
Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a
ransom for all, to be testified in
due time.
So in jesus death, he had to give that perfect body as a sacrifice .

If jesus had been ressurected with that same body, then he would not have giving his body as a ransome sacrifice, a corresponding sacrifice .
Jesus did not take back his fleshly body and thereby cancel out the ransom for which it was given.

The apostle Peter testifies that Christ went into heaven, the realm of spirits, not flesh, “he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.”. A translation say "ressurected in the spirit " and he became the first fruit of those ressurected in that manner .

Christians who have a heavenly hope, hope for these same kind of ressurection , for they died a physical body , but will be raised with a spiritual body . They will die as flesh, but will be raised and go to heaven as spirits . There are two kinds of bodies or nature, a spirit body or nature and a physical /fleshly body or nature.

After Jesus’ resurrection and Before his ascension to heaven, jesus, as a mighty,
immortal spirit person,
materialize various fleshly
bodies to suit the occasion, for
the purpose of giving to his
disciples visible, palpable
evidence of his resurrection

He appeared with different fleshly bodies .

Mary who knows who jesus is and how he looks like mistook him for the gardener.

"14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will takehim away. - ( Joh 20:14, 15)
He again appeared, entering a room with locked doors, having a body with wound marks. ( Joh 20:24-29)
Several times he
manifested himself and was
recognized, not by his
appearance, but by his words
and actions. ( Lu 24:15, 16, 30,
31, 36-45; Mt 28:16-18)
Once a miracle performed at his direction opened his disciples’ eyes to his identity. ( Joh 21:4-7, 12)
Jesus, having been
resurrected as a spirit (1Pe
3:18), could materialize a body
for the occasion as the angels
did in past times, when they
appeared as messengers.

Many people are said to be "IN THE SPIRIT" in the Bible so using this as a support that
Jesus never resurrected with
His body contradicts His own
statement.

This is why I sometimes have issues with you . You deliberately cut statements and remove parts or us parts to explain ur views . The statement did not say " be in the spirit " it said he was "raised in the spirit". He could not have ascended into heaven with physical flesh cus flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.

Now can you show me where in the Bible that ANOINTED CHRISTIAN hope for this form of resurrection? Waiting for your Biblical support.

Immediately after you tell why jesus is the first fruit in relation to those ressurected

You deliberate did it, that'snonsense.
You believe Jesus is A GOD
then is Jesus a FALSE GOD
OR A TRUE GOD?

Well if you feel jesus calling the father "the only true God", as nonsense, that's between you and jesus, but as for me , I don't see any nonsense in calling the father what jesus called him , the only true God .
The question should also be directed to jesus, he was the one who said the father is the only true God. That question can only be asked by someone who feel jesus is wrong to say the father is the only true God .

Where in 1 Corin 8:5-6 that shows which God to be
worshiped?

I did not say "show " us , I said " helps us to know".

"For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) 6 But to us there is but one God, the
Father, of whom are all things,
and we in him; and one Lord
Jesus Christ, by whom are all
things, and we by him."

I worship one God, just as the prophets of old worship one God and the scriptures tell me that that one God is the father , who incidentally is the only true God .

Answered!!!

Answered that jesus is not the almighty God .

According to my Bible Jesus is the POWER of God and through God's Knowledge the depth were broken up which is the act of creation and
everything is done through The Word of God which will know on earth as Jesus.
Unless you will tell me that God created His own knowledge and power.

You did not answer my question : apart from authority , is there any other aspect in which the father is superior to the son, for example, knowledge and power? The answer to that question is important .

Jesus said there is only one father who is in heaven.
That means Isaiah was lying
when he said the Child will be
called EVERLASTING
FATHER

I think your question is based on a need to argue. Jesus said there is only one father, who is in heaven . Does this not show you that jesus being Called "evalasting father" does not mean he is our father in heaven ? Why do you think that those going to heaven are called "jesus brothers"?. We are discussing Bro , not trying to create a base for argument.

The point is not why the Son does what the Father does but THE SAME HONOUR THAT
GOES TO THE FATHER MUST
GO TO THE SON that's the
point here

And after it was granted unto
Him, He then says YOU
SHOULD HONOUR HIM EVEN
AS/JUST AS YOU WILL
HONOUR THE FATHER.

Then what is the essence of the
SEAL AND AUTHORITY placed
on the representative if not
because Jehovah wants you to
SEE and DO TO THE
REPRESENTATIVE just the
way you will see and do to
Him?
That's why, if a President sent a
representative to an occasion
to my own understanding and
how I see people doing it.
The representative will be
addressed with Your
Excellency Sir, Mr President
some can then attach in the
person of so so... to it or some
will just continue.

I've explained to you my own view of honor giving to the son just as its giving to the father. I worship the father cus he is the creator , the supreme being, I do not worship his representative

Now the AUTHORITY does not
limit to judge alone keep fooling
yourself.
I still see the @bold part as
attacking a strawman because
we're not talking of the How
honour you give determined
the value the person holds in
you but EQUIVALENT OF THE
HONOUR YOU GAVE TO ONE
MUST BE GIVEN TO THE
OTHER PERSON ...haba
enough of this your twisting
tongue.
Jesus said "EVEN AS/JUST
AS you honour the Father"
point is anyhow you HONOUR
THE FATHER HONOUR THE
SON IN THE SAME WAY.
If I tell someone:
-Respect me the way/even/just
as you respect your parent
-Honour me the way/even/just
as you honour your mother
-Fear me the way/even/just as
you fear you Father
This doesn't mean that the
person must valued his/her
parent more than me BUT it's
crystal cleared to everyone
hearing my voice at that time
that [B]I'M DEMANDING FOR
EQUAL RESPECT, HONOUR
AND FEAR from such fellow.[/b]
So forget about this your jumbo
jumbo twisting, IN ANYWAY
YOU HONOUR JEHOVAH
(which you know within
yourself) Jesus DEMANDS
FOR SUCH HONOUR ALSO!
Very Simple.

In that verse, it say jesus was giving the authority to judge, I did not limit jesus authority, I'm only following what that verse says
Again, as long as you use words that the verses in the scripture did not use, and cut sentences to suit ur view, we will always be having issues . The word "same" or "way" or "same way" are not found in the scriptures. Quote the scripture sentences completely and then explain from there.

Answered!!!

Answered that as jesus is in heaven now, The father is still superior to him .

Emusan:
You said you're "humble enough to accept them and apologise" but instead of you to do as you claimed, you went further to lay many accusation on me and trying to put the blame on me again.



I can't stop just laughing, did I quote any scripture in my post? You just decided to reason beyond my own mind.
Beside, What is the different between ABSOLUTE and ALL? If I may ask because I see you trying to make it looks different.



Now shifting the blame on TRANSLATION, were you not the one who quoted it or didn't you read what you quoted or are you saying the translation you used isn't correct?
Again, YOU FELT I WOULD START ARGUING ON TRANSLATION reading my mind always you must be like my Grandmother.



Now blackmailing me of twisting words when you're the one messing yourself up here. keep blaming me for your lie.
You quoted verses from a particular translation in which you yourself inserted your OWN words in bracket but you couldn't see that.



Anyone reading this your post can see how funny you sound, now the Absolute Authority is only to judge. Continue to fool yourself.



This is another place that shows how pathetic you sound and baseless your point is because I've already stated in my initial post that the Father is superior to Jesus in Authority and Position. So reading my mind once again to draw your faulty analysis won't save you here. deal with your lie!



I know JWs' problem is the @bold part they hate anything that makes Jesus God and fail to give Jesus the glory that belongs to Him.
Matthew 28 says "ALL AUTHORITY... and it's only God that has ALL AUTHORITY which means if Jesus is not God then Jehovah has raised a CREATED BEING to His own level.



@bold & @underline-Yes the honest people do and know I don't say things out of my own head against JW but [b]ALWAYS USE JWs OWN WRITINGS as my prove which none of you have never disprove. In fact this is evident that one Jws on this Forum was calling me "Mr. Jehovah witness says"
When I say your organization changes their words or contradict their previous statement or even lie, your own is to ask for a prove and if I failed to provide them then I'll agree with you but as it stands now my statement still remains valid.



Did you tender your apology? No! Instead you find another avenue to put all the blame on me and the translation.
You should have just said in a simple sentence that it was a mistake and I'm sorry so that everything will just die down but you went ahead to accuse me and wrote another ridiculous post.



It will, but let me conclude this part about AUTHORITY with your own word from the first statement in this post so that I won't deal with it again as I'll continue to enlighten you in that your post. "So in the aspect of authority, Jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority."

My admissions :
I admit that in posting that translation , i did not fully know or take note of all the words present in that translation. I based my explanation and knowledge on other translations I'm used to .
In general and in complete quotation , does the translation I quoted mean something different from other translation that did not use the word "absolute"? My answer is no. Looking at all the scriptures quoted so far , we know that jesus being giving "all authority" or "absolute authority" does not make him equal to God!. This is the basis of the discussion we are having as the presence or absence of the word "absolute " does not change jesus position in terms of who is superior in authority between him and the true God(the father).

I also admit that I should not have used the sentence " the authority giving to jesus is not absolute" cus apparently we see some translations use that word when talking about jesus authority to judge.

My apology:
I apologise for the use of the sentence as stated above as it is not right for me to express it that way . The underlying reasons for saying such words has been explained in previous post.

Now that the issue is cleared, we can move on back to the discussion.
The question arises on the issue of authority:
(a)If it is accepted that jesus is not equal to God on the issue of authority, can we rightly say that prior to jesus coming to earth , he did not have that authority as he was not giving then ?
(b) that once jesus came to earth, he also was not equal to God in authority ?
(c) and upon his asscention to heaven as a spirit creature,and till this moment we are discussing, he still does not have the same authority as the father( the one true God, his God)?
(d) that we can say jesus is a God, a mighty God , but he is not almighty as he has someone superior to him in the past , when he came to earth , and in the future?
Will like to hear ur reply on these .

To other aspects : (e) what of power , expecially power to ressurect , was jesus giving that power too?. Is jesus equal to God in power ?
(f) what about knowledge, does jesus know everything the father knows?

Now to the issue of organization , you have issues with the organization , that is accepted, but on these thread we are discussing on the bible in general .
I said that you do not say anything positive about the organization despite your mentioning them several times. Is there nothing good in ur eyes to say about them?
If there is something good about the organization, why do you not
Say it ? Or have you decided to talk only about what you feel is wrong about the organization?

Note: you can laugh at my post, but I wunt join you , I see laughter during serious discussion as a way of winning arguments and do not pass on any information with the laughter.

I will not use any deamining word towards ur posts

johnw74:
It was God the Word who became flesh, He is the image of the Father





God's flesh body died, yes. His eternal Spirit of course never died.






joz calls "God was manifest in the flesh", an absurdity

You quoted a false translation of 1 Tim 3:16 . go quote a mordern translation .
Majority of the translations do not support ur quote .

Emusan:
How beautiful would've been to reply your post but immediately I came across this YOUR DAY LIGHT LIE, I know you're just exhibiting the habit of your organization, saying something today change it tomorrow OR contradict the previous statement. What an organization, what a followers! So I have to point it out before I continue with you.

This is from your previous post.



Pay attention to the @color part especially the @underline, now see what you said later in your second post below.



So which scripture did you quote in the first place that said Jesus was given ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY?
Can you see how you plainly deny scriptural evidence?


Clear this mess before I reply to your post.

*NOTE: Don't try to modify your post because I've taken screenshot of it.

Initially I thought your reference to "absolute authority" was in relation to jesus statement "all authority has been giving me "- Matt 28:18.
With such understanding in mind , I said the authority given to jesus is not absolute! , for the scriptures help us to know that despite all authority being giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such authority . So in the aspect of authority , jesus is not equal to the one who gave him such authority.

Ill like to admit some few things here. The translation I use mostimes do not say " absolute", and neither did most other translations use that word, but because I felt you would start arguing on translations, I decided to use one that might be acceptable to you. I bet you might have focused on the discussion and not on the word "absolute" if I've used numerous other translations that did not use the word. As I'm not a scholar who knows all the words used by each translation, i decided to look at what those verses in different translation, using different words is trying to tell us in general.

I also admit that I should not have said to you in particular that " the bible did not say "absolute authority " cus I should have remembered how you twist words .

Now let's look at the scriptures again . Jesus did not say he was "giving absolute authority" but said he was giving " absolute authority to judge " .
All the translation agree to these and if you had not cut that part "to judge" off from ur Statement, probably this issue would not have come up.
I know you are trying to bring the equality of jesus with God up with word "absolute authority" , but it will still not work, cus even if we use the word absolute in describing the authority giving to jesus, he is still subjected to the one who gave him such absolute authority! .

Or do you think jesus is equal to God cus of the authority he was giving? .

I know you might still argue with my explanation, but I posted it this way so that people who have humility in their heart and who want to know the truth can understand why I said jesus was not giving absolute authority to make him God almighty . For I know that no matter the authority giving to jesus, it does not make him equal to God. And I can bet that you, emusan, knows that too.
I do wish you could stick to the discussion on what the bible says about jesus and not keep making remarks about an organization, Everyone knows how you feel about them and knows you will never say good things about them . And pls keep derogatory statements out of our discussion

I will not need to change my previous post, if i do say something wrong Bro, I'm humble enough to accept them and apologise. I dnt act like a "lord of all" .

Now I hope we can move on to your proper reply on my post and express your views on the scriptures and not an organization.