₦airaland Forum

Richirich713:
Are u seriously saying jesus is not flesh and bones even tho he says:

"FLESH AND BONE as you see I HAVE".

Definitely not the flesh and bone that he died with.
For that was presented as a sacrifice for us.
The bible says jesus was ressurected as a life giving spirit.

If jesus was ressurected with his flesh and blood, Mary would definitely have recognized him when appeared to her na, but she thought he was a gardener even after having a discussion with him .

Again when the scribes where questioning jesus about marriage after resurrection, jesus told them that those to be ressurected will be like angels, spirit creatures in heaven. No wonder paul said those to be ressurected to heaven will be ressurected just like jesus, having immortality and sharing in the divine nature, a spirit nature.

Dnt think flesh and blood can have immortality, though they can have evalasting life.

paulGrundy:
Good. Why do you ask?

Cus you did not mention it.

Going further, do you support there stance on not allowing unrepentant sinners in their midst the moment such sinner is revealed. Is it good or bad?

Sanchez01:
I'm not really sure if you're referring to the same 1 Tim 3:16. The is pretty simple and direct.

Can you give ur views on the verse?

I sincerely apologise though but saying "Theos" is has been removed from that verse without empirical evidence is not concrete enough. I sincerely hope you get what I'm implying.

You are right. I dnt have evidence that some translation used "theos " in that verse and later removed it.
But I do know that presently, many bible translations do not have the word "god" in that verse, but the kjv still does.

1. American Standard Version
1901
2. Common English Bible
3. Complete Jewish Bible
(CJB)
4. Douay-Rheims 1899
5. English Standard Version
Anglicised (ESVUK)
6. NET Bible (©2006)
And we all agree, our religion
contains amazing revelation:
He was revealed in the flesh.
7. Holman Christian Standard
Bible (©2009)
8. Good News Translation
(GNT)
9. Lexham English Bible
(LEB)
10. THE MESSAGE
11. Aramaic Bible in Plain
English (©2010)
12. New Century version
13. Mounce Reverse-
Interlinear New Testament
(MOUNCE)
14. Revised Standard version
15. Douay-Rheims
16. New English Translation
(NET)
17. New International Version
(NIV)
18. New International Version
– UK (NIVUK)
19. New American Standard
Bible
20. New Revised Standard
Version (NRSV)
21. English Standard Version
22. Revised Version 1881
23. The Voice (VOICE)

Sanchez01:
Please observe the bolded part of your post because my questions are coming from there.
1. Could you please before anything else, explain what the passage says?

2. Let me pretend to agree with you, could you please provide the 'original' manuscript so that myself and others would see how the KJV doctored 1 Tim 3:16.

Thanks in anticipation.

PS: Please answer the number one first before coming down to answer the second.

(1) the passage was talking about the secret of godly devotion which was revealed through jesus.

(2) the word "theos" that is translated as "god" in that verse is not found in most of the earlier manuscripts. And it has been discovered that the manuscripts is which theos is found came as a result of deliberate scribal manipulations.

Hence most translations now remove the word "god" from that verse. But I dnt thing any revised edition of the kjv has done so

.

Sanchez01:
I'm open to learning here. Could you give instances of obvious manipulations from the KJV we can relate to?

1st example , though not a direct manipulation by the kjv , but they support the use of a manipulated manuscrupt. 1 Tim 3:16

Sanchez01:
The issue is not whether the KJV is a saint or not. At least to an extent, the KJV contains what Christians need to draw closer to God and know the nature of God. The KJV did not deliberately manipulate the Scripture to achieve a specific purpose. While what I've posted is not to say all other versions are bad, a conscious and a sensitive believer would understand that some firm beliefs of the world, such as Sodomy and deliberate attempt to rubbish the Deity of Christ and His purpose is fast creeping into what Christians study, practice and live by.

replay!!

Abi na the kjv be the oga for manipulation

DoubleDeeX:
When Jesus Christ rapture His bride, most of the left behind will receive the mark of the beast and worship the Anti-Christ as Jesus Christ....Lucifer is coming to impersonate Jesus Christ and people would be forced to worship him ( For 42 months - Revelation 13:5 before Christ finally returns to throw him in jail for 1000 years). That's why we have all these new generation Bible translations with errors and intentional omissions!

May God help us make the rapture. Amen!

Does the old generation translations not contain errors?

There is still hope for those left after rapture na

ammyluv2002:
Wow! Good research.....Kudos!


I think, they(The body in charge) should limit the Bible version to just Kings James so we go just rest from all these wahala.

But the KJV contains texts that other versions say are errors and man made distortions !

paulGrundy:
1. They are very zealous about their preaching work.

2. An average JW have a deep knowledge of biblical quotes and study often (though with a closed mind).

3. JW's have this strong brotherhood love for each other/ watch out for each other, just like the catholic church.

What about their stand against warfare, not carrying weapons. Is it good or bad?

juligon:
...am sorry...3..4...5.,, dts mine... so can u now ansa my last question?.....,u can ask urs also bt let it nt be and arguement

Good.
Now to ur question

Mark 3 : 28 -30
Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, 29 but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
30 He said this because
they were saying, “He has an
impure spirit.”

*note. The verse did not say it is the holy spirit that will not forgive.

This is stated to be the
unforgivable sin. Blasphemy is shown to originate within one’s heart ; hence the heart condition, manifest in the willfulness involved, must relate to such blasphemy against the spirit.
The incident that led to Jesus’
statement concerning the
unpardonableness of such sin
demonstrates that it refers to
opposing the operation of God’s spirit. This would not be because of deception, human weakness, or imperfection; but the opposition would be willful and deliberate. The Pharisees clearly saw God’s spirit at work in Jesus to accomplish good, yet for selfish reasons they attributed this power to Beelzebub, Satan the Devil, thereby blaspheming God’s holy spirit.
Those who, either in word or by their course of action, willfully and knowingly
blasphemed God’s spirit thus
manifested would be “guilty of
everlasting sin,” with no
forgiveness possible.
This could be the case with some who came to be
Christians and then deliberately turned from God’s pure worship.
Hebrews 10:26,27 states that “if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful
expectation of judgment and
there is a fiery jealousy that is
going to consume those in
opposition.”

Neitzsche:
So someone who has been inactive for 4 yrs + can just stroll in anytime like nothing happened

No. No strolling in at any point in time, active or inactive.

@ paulgrundy

Seems you have deliberately closed ur eyes to Seeing anything good about jehovahs witnesses.

From ur point of view, do they do anything good ?
Is there any practise they follow that is worthy of emulation ?
If there is can you mention some.

Shegricho:
I just find it funny when people try to play God, expel people from the church?
You make me laugh brother, what is your definition of "gross sin".
I remember the Bible says, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God", i don't remember that verse pointing to any sin as "gross" or "mild".
In my own view, i just think these witnesses are full of Bible analysts.
Saying someone should be expelled contradicts what the Bible says about correcting each other with love.
Again, that contradicts the parable by our Lord Jesus Christ concerning the lost sheep & coin.
You people are the main reason why people like me thank God that God is not man.

Are you a Christian?
If yes , pls how do you or ur church handle this directive from the scripture

1 cor 5:9-13

When I wrote to you before, I told you not to associate with people who indulge in sexual sin. 10 But I wasn’t talking about unbelievers who indulge in sexual sin, or are greedy, or cheat people, or worship idols.
You would have to leave this
world to avoid people like that.
11 I meant that you are not to
associate with anyone who claims to be a believer yet indulges in sexual sin, or is greedy, or worships idols, or is
abusive, or is a drunkard, or
cheats people. Don’t even eat with such people. 12 It isn’t my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge
those inside the church who
are sinning. 13 God will judge those on the outside; but as the Scriptures say, “You must remove the evil person from among you.”

@ Joeagbaje

1. I ask you some questions, so far no answer from you.
Below are the questions again:

1A. Show scriptural surpport or
proof that hell is a temporal
abode for the wicked.

1B. Show scripture to support ur statement that hell is controlled by Satan.

1C. What are/ is the content in hell?
From here we can know if these contents went into the lake of fire with hell.
Pls add scripture to support ur
views.

1D. The wicked?!! . It this a derived analogy or the scripture specifically mentioned the "wicked" with the "lake of fire".

1E. Hell was an abode for departed spirit?
Can you show us that in the
scriptures?

1F .Does the spirit of man go to
hell?.

1G. Pls joeagbaje , can you tell us the difference between "sheol" "hades" and "hell"? .

They appeared to some
people. They didn't stay. It
would have become a bigger
news if they stayed back.
They were relocated to
heaven.

I asked you : 2.did Matt 27:52 say that those ressurected ascended to heaven?

Your answer shows to all that Matt 27:52 verse that you quoted did not in any way say that the ressurected ascended to heaven .
Your refusal to add scriptures to support ur view of these so called ascension by the people also shows everyone that ur belief is derived from personal
Opinion and not what the bible says. You belief they went to heaven when the scriptures did not tell you so.

Bigger news!? Must the size of the information determine if something is to be written in the scriptures or not?. Was the ressurection before jesus time bigger news cus they stayed alive on earth after there ressurection?. Was the ressurection by jesus of the young girl and lazarus a much bigger news cus they stayed after their ressurection? Was lazarus activity on earth recorded after his ressurection cus he did not ascend to heaven when he was resurrected? How come do you now feel that this ressurection will bring greater news, and therefore because of the lack of such news, it means they did not stay but ascended to heaven.

Since you believe they went to heaven after their resurrection, can you also tell us in what form they entered heaven, with their flesh and blood? Or did they have to die again.?

Even at resurrection, tomb will still be on earth.

3. I asked: Why did paul say
the tomb of David is still with
them, even after Jesus
ascension.?

You did not state why peter said those words.

Hear what the scriptures says:
Excerpts from Acts 2: 29- 34:

29 Men and brethren, let me
freely speak unto you of the
patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried,(note , this statement was made after jesus ascension to heaven and the resurrection that occured during the death of jesus to point) and his
sepulchre(tomb) is with us unto this day.( to add extra prove that David is still dead and buried) ...... For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand.

They became perfect when the church was born
• Hebrews 11:40 (KJV Strong's)
40 God having provided some
better thing for us, that they
without us should not be made
perfect.

It was a simple question I asked , that if those that died before Jesus became born again and you are now saying they became perfect. How does perfection and born again as said by jesus correspond ?
Are you perfect when you are born again?
Even being made perfect is not a key or direct access into heaven.

Now let's look at the scripture you quoted:
Heb 11:39,40
And these all( all the faithfull servants of God mentioned by paul including David o) , having obtained a good report
through faith, received not the promise: (they have not received the promise as at the time those verses was recorded, this goes along with pauls statement that David is still dead and also goes along with all scriptural statements on the requirements needed for humans to make heaven , including the fact that the sacrifice has to be presented in heaven first, before the inheritance can be obtained. 40 God having provided some better thing for us( something better for those who where giving holy spirit, who where baptized and who are alive after jesus ascension) , that they without us should
not be made perfect.

You keep on quoting scriptures that shows ur unscriptural ideaology as flawed.

They went with him after resurrection

You did not add scripture to show this is true. This is another personaly derived analogy and not based on the scriptures.

Luke 24:50-54

And He led them out as far as
Bethany,(not saying it is , but dnt you think this would include those ressurected earlier?) and He lifted up His hands and blessed them. Now it came to pass, while He blessed them, that He(only jesus ) was parted from them and carried up
into heaven.(only jesus was seen and recorded ascending into heaven )

Still wonder how you found out others ascended with jesus.


I asked you :6. Now if its only the wicked that are in hell, who are the righteous that are to be
resurrected in later days.?
You answered:

Their bodies will be resurrected but their spirits are in heaven.

Wow!.
Before we look at your answer ill like to say again that you did not support ur belief with the scriptures and thus I take these as another personal opinion of urs and not based on the scriptures.
Now let's analyse.
For these to be true , it means that they where not resurrected with there bodies during Christ death but there body will later be ressurected and merged with there spirit in heaven. The saints that were seen in Jerusalem where not with there physical bodies as that has not been resurrected yet. So they will encounter double resurrection or sectionalized stages of resurrection abi?, and some might even be tripple. Verry confusing explanation Bro.

This brings out the question, what goes to hell when man dies, the spirit, soul or body, or the whole three or two of the three, ill surely like to hear ur reply on these.
And which one of them controls our consciousness.
Pls do explain these in ur next post.

OK I will. . It was time issue

Will be waiting

lexiconkabir:
dont tell me, you are afraid to question your faith, i say it again, 1john5:7 was inserted into the bible at the 15century. mind you, i aint arguing with you, i am telling you the reality.

Hello, have you been able to solve the phone issue now?

vooks:
There are countless who were also poor. John the Baptist is one.

Here is something you never read;
Hebrews 11:35-38King James Version (KJV)

35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:

36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment:

37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented;

38 (Of whom the world was not worthy they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth.
Description is not prescription negro.
This is why you don't have concubines like David,Abraham,Saul,Solomon.

NOBODY in history of Christianity made a tidy fortune preaching the gospel....UNTIL under 100yrs ago when New Thought and Prosperity madness erupted.

No apostle was poor by choice; they were poor because they had enough sense not to swindle the masses. They preached eternal life to dying masses and they did it for free

Gbam!!!

Pastors wanting to comfortably serve God in an environment and way of life controlled by its enemy.

They forget that " ones life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions", yet they now carry heavily armed security personel around due to this abundance!.

Osumare2013:
You've forgotten that Jesus died as a sinner on the cross. The sin of the whole world was laid on him.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

After death, he went to the lower parts of the earth to preach to the souls there. He also obtained the keys to death when he went down to hell.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
Ephesians 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

1. Can you show us the scripture(s) where it is said that jesus went to preach to the souls in hell?

2. Why did jesus preach their and what is the purpose of such action.

3. Show us the scripture that says jesus obtained the keys to death when he was or went down to hell.

Joagbaje:
Try not to get insultive, or I may not respond any more to you.

2 Timothy 2:24 (KJV)
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,


I still maintain the two statment s they are not Contradictory. Hell was first an abode for all departed spirits. Both good and bad. As the story of lazarus and rich man illustrates. There were two compartments. Separated by a big gulf. Righteous men like Abraham were not under tuture except the wicked . But after Jesus rose ,all the righteous men who were in the good side of hell which is called paradise were carried in captivity to heaven . So hell presently is only for the wicked .


Matthew 27:52 (KJV)
52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

1. I ask you some questions, so far no answer from you.
2.did Matt 27:52 say that those ressurected ascended to heaven? . Thought they were seen in the city.
3. Why did paul say the tomb of David is still with them, even after jesus ascension.?
4. Jesus said , unless you are born again, you cannot see the kingdom of God, where those that died before jesus came born again?
5. The verse in Matt that you quoted occured before jesus ressurection. Did they go heaven while jesus was still in hell?
6. Now if its only the wicked that are in hell, who are the righteous that are to be resurrected in later days.?
7. Why do you not support ur beliefs with facts/quotes from the bible , especially the issue of spirits going into hell.?

When does the love of money start.?
At what point do we term someone as covetous?
How do we decide that one has desire for worldly things?

Does buying a suit for $10,000 cus its a designer whereby I know that I can get same colour, material and design for N10,000 show my desire?

Does having a fleet of cars in my name show my love for worldly things?.

I'm I covetous when i decide to work hard so that I can buy a private jet like other people have done ?

The composer of these false story has never entered an aircraft with its engines switched on before.

juligon:
...lol.. how would u have said it ?
the truth is dt was my initial idea ....bt if he was just a power ...why did the lord says who ever sins against him will not be forgiven?.. can u sin against an ordinary power?

You did not answer my question

juligon:
....ok ...this are the difference pick the number you belong ..others can also pick their numbers or add their views or go against any number.

1) some say theres nothing like the holyspirt ...he doesnt exist
2) the holyspirit exist but its just the power arm of God nothing more nothing else
3) the holyspirit is more than just power ...its a person (not HUMAN) .its person because he has some personalities .
4) some say the holyspirit is GOD.
5) Some feel the holyspirit is the author of the newbirth and he helps us in our fellowship...


no arguments.......

I'm more in agreement with 2. Though I would not have said it that way.
Which one is urs .?

Joagbaje:
He was in hell as sin embodiment. He was made sin. But he wasn't in a fire . Because hell was an abode for departed spirit both good and righteous .the righteous were not tormented but the wicket were .

Hell was an abode for departed spirit?
Can you show us that in the scriptures?

Does the spirit of man go to hell?.

Pls joeagbaje , can you tell us the difference between "sheol" "hades" and "hell"? .

Joagbaje:
Hell is a temporal abode for the wicked,.

Show scriptural surpport or proof that hell is a temporal abode for the wicked.

It's a place of devil's also ,it's controlled by Satan.

Show scripture to support ur statement that hell is controlled by Satan.

Hell being cast I to lake of fire has to do with its emptying it's content there .

What are/ is the content in hell?
From here we can know if these contents went into the lake of fire with hell.
Pls add scripture to support ur views.

Your theory that there is no infernal end for the wicked . Has been disproved by the scripture I quoted . The wicked ends in fire. Lake of fire .

The wicked?!! . It this a derived analogy or the scripture specifically mentioned the "wicked" with the "lake of fire".

I think you should rather go back to double check on what you have believed and Compare it with new evidence instead of trying to make a mockery

I believe that the God I serve, the God of justice, love, and full of compassion ,Jehovah, will not burn an imperfect human (the condition not his fault or doing) for a million billion years for sins he committed for less than 100 years, with those in heaven having a knowledge of one or all of there other family in that condition.
Burning them forever will not prove jehovah suvereinty or power. Neither is it justice even to use who where created in his image.
I believe the scriptures statement about the future " and the wicked will be no more"!.

juligon:
...owk sir... the truth is that , the holyspirit is too wide to discuss..... bt frm wat i can see, u are a Christian and u knw the holyspirit... what do u think pple are getting confused abt the spirit dt u know. mayb we shuld start frm der

People re getting confused about the holy spirit because of pre-concieved ideas and views. Due to some false beliefs, the holy spirit must be something they created so as to support their beliefs which goes contrary to the scriptures.

successinlife:
Though you did not ask me this question but i will answer as if it was directed at me.Listen men of understanding and see if it make sense or not.

We all knew that the messengers of God came and gone at different times of our history as human.Nobody can really say if any is false or right. Now is is my humble carnal analysis.I am entangled always in thiw who is really and truely worshipping God between xtain and muslims.I am for both sides because i have both in my nuclear and extended family. This yesterday a similar question came up in our get together when someone asked the other why is she not praying the five daily prayers,well,i just chipped in a word and it became exagerrated,what did i say?i told the one that believe she is right to leave the other for God to judge,then her husband stood in her defense by saying,it is better to commit sin and observe the prayers than not commiting sins as an unbeliver because anybody that doesn't pray.Well,i disagree with this anytime anyday.

My observation and questions goes thus,there were generations before the advent of xtian and islam,right?what is their fate if God is not going to use double standard to judge the universe? remember most if not all do not know what is xtian and islam.

What is the faith/judgement for those that were living during the days of Jesus & Muhamed but never heard of neither of these two prophets?

Is it impossible to be holy without being a xtian or muslim?

Hence till when i can't reason again with my brain,i will continue to accept people for who they are rather than for which religion they practise. I am of the opinion that whoever satisfy God in his ways,deeds and thoughts will make heaven irrespective of his means of communicating God.

I think the questions that should be asked first is
Why do humans need to go to heaven?.
Why do humans go to heaven.?
What are humans going to do there?
I think this will help all to have a better understanding of who goes to heaven.

juligon:
i hope u dnt hate him ..if u do then i wont say anytin again... bt if u are on a neutral ground with him...i can recommend a book for u

How can I hate someone I dnt know!
And I can't be on neutral ground or any ground untill I know who he is.
I thought our discussion will be based on what the scripture says(tells us) and not what someone says.
Pls let's use the scriptures as the basis of our discussion.

I hope you can start it by looking at the post I made earlier in which some questions where asked.

juligon:
....ok do u knw benny hinn?

I've heard about the name.

juligon:
....watsaap is easier

Here is better