₦airaland Forum

Listen my brother, if you think i am quoting some book for you then you are mistaken because i am actually sharing with you what i have related with and what i live by.

Again, i do not have the time to spend triying to convince you by taking through scriptures. Just continue the way you are going. You will get to the point when you really need explantions. At such a time, you can humbly refer back.

I am not introducing something new. This is what had been from the begining. The church only lost it. The fact that a lie had been on the throne for ages will not make it truth.

So i rest my case till when i have time; maybe during my leave.

Shalom.

Thanks very much for your expose. If I may ask, who is worshipping this man? From what i see, it is you and your group of friends. Only that you wish it were not so.

As far as I know, the members of our congregation are full of love for Jesus and His message. This they have demonstrated in their work and in their words. Why are you looking for fault where there is none.

If the excitement you see on their faces reminds you of the fact that you have lost your first love, why not humbly repent instead of calling what you are seeing evil.

The fact that it is not a common phenomenon in the church today for people to be as excited as we appear (even though it will be very soon -whether satan likes it or not)  about Jesus, should not make long faces and 'judgemental police check points in church' the in-thing.

Rather than grumble, simply repent and embrace your first love. Amen.

When you stand before the Lord on that day, it is not what your church preaches that will matter but who you are in the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. It is not what your pastor says but what He hath said.

There are  three words I can use to describe what this thread now exudes:strife, bitterness and envy and for that reason, I'm out out of  here!

I love Pastor Kumuyi and i love His teachings because i listen to them.

i see the passion He has for the Lord even in his eyes.

I love John Wesley also for His passion towards Jesus. I remember His famous words; if a man will burn, people will come to the fire.

But i feel for those who are not sensitive enough to persieve and understand the move of the Spirit in these last days. It is way beyond hairstyle, hairscaffs, long skirts and tourtle neck blouses.

It is God pouring out his Spirit upon all flesh. Why are you offended. WHY DO DO YOU PRIDE YOURSELVES IN YOUR OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS. God sent Jesus who was nailed to the cross to bring to himself all who believe that he is alive and is offering that free gift to all.

You are offended, because the rghteousness which you have established for youselves has been knocked down before your very eyes at the appearing of the righteousnes of God. You had better humble yoursevles and recieve that free gift of righteousness which he has made available for all who believe.

Repent and be converted before it is too late!

Look at you!

You are looking for who you will kill next.

Anyways, many of them pastors wouldnt mind moving without security men, but for members like me who wouldn't let them. Afterall, they preach in open air crusades before millions including armed robbers, thugs and assasins.

I remember david's mighty men who will prevent David from going out to meet an enemy saying they will take care of them by themselves saying lest the light of Iseal be put out; that is the spirit. And Peter who wouldnt let those wicked pharisees and soldiers come close to Jesus.

Besides, if some of them like my pastor did, they will be causing unnecessary stampedes on the streets. And with people like you around, they had better have armed guards around. Afterall, what did those dear reverend fathers which we read about last year in the papers do to deserve such a death. They were murdered in their church premises.
Its not like they are known to be very wealthy though.

Thanks for your comments and that of Buluti. Actually, nobody is worshiping anybody here. Pls understand that it is almost impossible for one who has no identity but Christ's to mislead anyone. His message is clear. He never seeks to introduce or glorify himself. The man exhudes humility.

He is a blessed man and by him, millions are being blessed around the world. Many are coming to know of their divine herritage and inheritance in Christ.

So just like i do not want to appear to be an advocate for Christ Embassy, but the Word; i will also wish that you be careful not to be seen as one of those who seek the downfall of this great man of God, looking for faults where there really aren't any.

Hardly any preacher in Nigeria will pass the kind of tests he has passed and remain standing.

A testimony to the lifting and sustaining power of God's Word.

jeshua:
I have read so many people saying they know Pastor Chris!!!! Someone even told me he didnt school in Nigeria(not on this page anyway). Because you are a keyboardist in his church or even a Pastor, that doesnt make you a close pal, close enough to know him. I have followed his ministry for a couple of years now and I actually noticed the hair go from normal to curls and i have also seen the poor souls in the church too copy him.

So much for one who knows pastor Chris

You have followed his ministry for several years and all you noticed were his curls; how sad. That reminds me of Jesus' brothers ( even James) who will not believe until the man died was buried and raised again fromthe dead. It also reminds me of Nazareth  where the power of God could not be manifested because of their unbelief. They said, is this not the carpenter's son?

Brother, Your having been close to him i would say was more of a dissadvantage than an advantage to you. Because all you saw was Chriso and not pastor Chris.

jeshua:
Please don't quote me wrong, I can just imagine what will happen if Jesus Christ comes back and enters the church and ask what and why the jerry curls'? I wonder what the answer will be; "it looks good on us".
The style as really advanced the ministry, a place where "anything " goes.
.

You are clear enough no need to misunderstand you.

You are so carnal! To imagine that a hair style will advance a ministry. I remember years ago, some people will come to church and advice the pastor of our small local church then to stop the women from wearing trousers and leaving their hair open; saying[i] many people want to come to church but wouldnt because you wear trousers and leave your hair open. [/i] Sounds nice hun? But they were lying through their teeth because the same people are now the ones saying that we have a large church becasue as you say, anything goes. May God forgive you. The Holy spirit is the one building the Church today not a hair-do.

And don't be decieved, before Jesus asks about hair-do, He will first ask whether it was wiser for you to spend your time bad-belleying other christians instead of doing his work.

jeshua:
Is there anybody who has heard of the "fishers" method used by an organisation thought of to be christian but was using women to lure men into their fold. Ihave seen their girls lespecialy on campus lure men to join.My brother almost entered the trap and he was returned to his church and the relationship ended thus( i am not saying that the church is not of God).

There you lie again, or maybe it is your unbel brother who is lying to you telling you that the girl is trying to lure Him to church. Is the church now a brothel? The girl he was chasing after has given her life to christ and is asking this guy who would not leave her a alone to join her to church but he refused because he knows it will change everything.

jeshua:
I put it to any memeber of Christ embassy that 95% of what Chris teaches is way over there head and only the noise and the style of dressing is what they ahve which accounts for the 5%.

Why do you allow this envy to take over you? Are they calling your name in their shouting? Dont you know that just like you have babes in the hlouse of God, you have the men as well?

jeshua:
I have a picture with me which i do not desire to be on e-bay showing Pastor Chris with my Brother in law at the university of Benin and that goes to show How much information I have about him.
I always want to ask Christians the question, how much love do you ahev for Christ and your Pastor? The Berean christian didnt allow the popularity of Paul to enter ther head instead checked everythin-EVERYTHING he said with the sriptures. The life of Paul was about Christ, the life of the Apostles was all about Christ. They wont do anything that will make their disciples to err in the matters of the kingdom.

Picture? It only goes to show what kind of a sad situation you have found yourself in.

jeshua:
I have seen with churches to day which does not care about discipline and so permits anything to happen and i know what the book of revelation says about them:

Rev.2:18 “To the angel of the church in Thyatira write the following:“This is the solemn pronouncement of the Son of God, the one who has eyes like a fiery flame and whose feet are like polished bronze: ‘I know your deeds: your love, faith, service, and steadfast endurance. In fact, your more recent deeds are greater than your earlier ones. But I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, and by her teaching deceives my servants to commit sexual immorality and to eat food sacrificed to idols. have given her time to repent, but she is not willing to repent of her sexual immorality. Look! I am throwing her onto a bed of violent illness, and those who commit adultery with her into terrible suffering, 76 unless they repent of her deeds. 2:23 Furthermore, I will strike her followers 77 with a deadly disease, 78 and then all the churches will know that I am the one who searches minds and hearts. I will repay 79 each one of you 80 what your deeds deserve. 81 2:24 But to the rest of you in Thyatira, all who do not hold to this teaching 82 (who have not learned the so-called “deep secrets 83 of Satan”), to you I say: I do not put any additional burden on you. 2:25 However, hold on to what you have until I come. 2:26 And to the one who conquers 84 and who continues in 85 my deeds until the end, I will give him authority over the nations 2:27 he 87 will rule 88 them with an iron rod"

what is the spirit of jezebel that God didnt destroy but awits her repentance, check back into the old testament and see that all that Jezebel cares about is how she looked and how her husband will look. If the logic is it looks good on them, then they all have a problem or probably SICK.

My dear, take that your preaching elsewhere; maybe your church will be most appropriate for that message.

jeshua:
I don't know, upon all the seeming problems Chris notices with churches around which characterizes his messages now (the other day he was talking about the symbol of the bird on a church logo, i am not a redeem member but everyone knows redeem CCG have got a bird upside down their logo), why Chris wont talk about all the men in his church with curls like he does. Or is the new creature of the book of corinthians not enough but need help from mortals. I don't really know, i know many of theri memebers who have a lifestyle that even an unbeliever condems but they are the "waz up Pastors" in the campuses.
I am not against him or the church but my stand is WHAT WOULD JESUS DO

What is his message if I may ask? You who claim to know him.

What has carrying curls got to do with worshipping a bird?

What has looking good got to do with idolatory?

buluti:
I had thought this thread was dead and was quite happy with that.

But as I keep reading some comments in here its really really scary.

When someone can say i follow Pastor Chris as he follows Christ. How?? Do you still need a mediator. Why not just follow Christ directly as Pastor Chris follows Christ directly.

I keep reading this fallacy on miracles and signs, it is the most worrisome. My question is who says there are no signs where the name of Christ is being preached and who says the Holy spirit doesnt show up in gatherings with the same manifestations?

I really don't know how i would feel if am told where i currently fellowship that the Gospel is "different", its good to be unique, its good to be special as the very hair on our head is numbered, but different i don't know. If ever i want to leave for whatever leason e.g. move to Iraq or something does that imply am missing out on God, that i can't grow and receive from God else where in the same measure if not more. I must either start that same ministry or listen to tapes from that ministry only or approved names from that ministry. Scary

Why do you use the statements of a few people to come to your rather generalised conclusion.

Rebels in the house of God seeking to raise others like themselves.

If Christ Embassy were not built on God's living word, it will not be where it is today.

@pilgrim

My dear, the prayer and fasting was not done for demons. They are not the reason we pray and fast.

Then how come about that verse? Please understand something here: We pray and fast some times as an art of worship; or as a sacrifice or to exercise our human spirits so that we are alert to hear exactly what the Spirit is saying. At such times, there is so much unity between the our minds and the mind of the Spirit for the Spirit now has dominion over the flesh(senses). As in the verse you quoted, such demons who may pretend as though they aren't listening or appear to be stubborn are driven out with a Word.

Fasting raises our Spiritual antenae so as to pick clear signals. Jesus did not spend hours fasting and praying for demons but to be strengthened in the inner man so as to fulfil his mission on earth. He interceeded for you and i in prayer.


This new method of spending hours praying about our problems or for our enemies to fall down dead is disturbing to say the least. Yet thy will not spend 30 mins praying for the Lord,s grace n favor in helping them reach the lost, the sick, suffering and  the needy around the world.



And talking about experiencing it first hand, trust me; you are not talking to a novice.

I undersdand that. Thank you.

What is the preaching of the cross except freedom from sin, sickness, poverty, death, and the devil.

That cross tells of my complete victory for He was wounded for my transgressions, bruised for my iniquities; the chastizement that brought me peace was upon Him and with His stripes, I was healed glory!

It is a joy to suffer for the sake of the gospel. There is no reason to be sorrowful for we have joy in the Holy ghost.

We as Christains should rightly divide the Word. It is time for the Church of Jesus to grow up! Let God's people study the Word for themselves and learn through the Holy ghost what it talks about.

Then we will see and handle demons the right way: as defeated foes. Jesus said, cast out devils. I dont spend hours praying about demons. I cast them out and go on praying for the hearts of men and women around the world to be open to recieve God's Word of salvation.

I intercede for others because my needs are met in christ. Satan is actually the one on the run. When I move in, he checks out!

Word!

Jesus had already said, I will be with you forever, even unto the end of the age. Believe God's Word and recieve it into your soul. Dont forget to let it stay on your lips as you speak and declare the Word always.

Fellowship with the Spirit through the Word and prayer and you are sure going to have not just His presence in you, but His manifested presence in and around you in signs wonders and miracles.

People will take notice of that tangible presence of the Holy Spirit around you.

God bless.

TayoD:
@donnie,
I don't mind being found in the midst of unbels who know they need the Lord. However, when an unbel now preaches "another gospel" while speaking "christianese" and your Pastor has the guts to validate his ministry, then you guys are in trouble.

Isn't it pathetic. The lost claiming to show others the way of salvation. When the blind lead the blind, na gutter be that! Thanks to Oyhaks, many are falling straight into the ditch through the leading of T.B. Joshua.

There they go again; as usual, speaking without hearing from God. Where is the ditch? please somebody ask this man where he is refering to as 'ditch'. Is it the kingdom of God that he clarly introduces every where he goes, or the miracles he helps God 's people recieve freely without charge for which many of you penticostals charge consultaion fees without even delivering the good. You have been decievd and you are seeking to decieve others as well.

TayoD:
The issue here is simple. Please verify your miracles so you can stay on the air. Here is Jesus, whom you claim to follow verifying His miracles in Matthew 8:2 And, behold, there came a leper and worshipped him, saying, Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean. 3 And Jesus put forth his hand, and touched him, saying, I will; be thou clean. And immediately his leprosy was cleansed. 4 And Jesus saith unto him, See thou tell no man; but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

A servant is not greater than his master, unless of course jesus is not the Master una dey follow!

The issue is by far deeper thatn what you seem to understand. That is why you talk like an unbeliever. Even Chris Okotie was quoted to have said he is against such a  bann. At least he has enough spiritual sense to know it is totally anti Christ. Please help me ask these penticostals whether if Arch Bishop Idahosa  were around, they would dare say or do such things.

The man would have walked up to aso rock and asked Obj to abolish such a law with immediate effect. But these so-called penticostals are dancing around with unbels speaking blasphemies and calling it Word.

It is only for a time. Remember, It ws God's wish for Jesus to be crucified but those who did so were not guiltless. In the same way, it is not by their hands that these miracles were removed from local TV stations but i can promise you that when the Lord is ready, He will change things and you TayoD will be alive to see it come to pass. Mark my words.

Lastly, before i go, let me correct some of your wrong teachings. From the scripture you quoted:

but go thy way, shew thyself to the priest, and offer the gift that Moses commanded, for a testimony unto them.

Notice he did not ask him to go show himself to Pilate or his council of chiefs or to some physician or some other unbel but to the priest. Look at you. See who is being fooled. Fighting the course of satan and thinking you are representing God. You ask us to go present ourselves before unbels. God forbid. We are to declare to them the truth of the gospel with signs following. It is a ministry, not a show. If they want to know, let them come to those meetings the right way and verify for themselves. If after they see they still don't believe, it is their own trouble not ours.

I am in agreement with you that The angel of the Lord is deity but not Jesus for there were no manifestations of Jesus in the old testament. There was the father, the Word and the Spirit. It is that Word that became Jesus.

The manifestations of deity in the old testament are actually manifestations of the Holy Spirit and not Jesus. Even though the three persons are one, they may not manifest themselves in the same way.

The word angel can be translated as messenger. He is the one who carries the presence of God from place to place. He can take the form of a man if He chooses to. Or the form of fire or a cloud. But its all the same God manifesting himself all over the world by His Spirit. The Holy Spirit is refered to in scripture as the Angel of His presence. He is the one that followed the children of Israel all through the wilderness.

Isaiah 63:9 
In all their affliction he was afflicted, and the angel of his presence saved them: in his love and in his pity he redeemed them; and he bare them, and carried them all the days of old.

The Holy Spirit today is the one that makes that same presence of Jesus and of the father real to us. He shows them to us for He does not speak of himself but only what he hears. Jesus said He will take of me and show it unto you.

Some today say Jesus appeared to them. It was actually the Holy Spirit who made it possible.

The son was seen by men and angels for the first time when He was born in bethlehem.

What an interesting combination of unbels; and TayoD fits in perfectly among them.

What a pity.

Do not decieve yourself local cahampion. We have more reach now than ever before. We are on TBN daily and LCN broadcasts our programs 24/7 all around the world.

You haven't seen anything yet. Such opposition is good for ministries that are beloved of God. That is the necessary ingredient for promotion.

TayoD:
I will not address the many trash you wrote but only address the scriptures yu refered to. That is my passion: the defence and propagation of the gospel.

Really? i did not know that. As a matter of fact, by your manner of approach to spiritual matters, you appeared to me simply as a well educated unbeliever. Becasuse if you are truely in defence of the Gospel, you'll let the Holy Spirit take charge of your mouth so you do not speak without the necessary power to truely defend this gospel which you say you believe; Neither will you talk carelessly about those who proclaim that message.

TayoD:
1. That John and some other OT prophets were filled with the Holy Ghost from their mother's womb does not make it a NT teaching. I hope you know the Gospels are really a part of the OT.

I don't remember calling it a New testament teaching. I was only showing you possibilities so that you do not become confused when you see certain things happen. i do not doubt the fact that the gospels are old testament.

TayoD:
In this day and age, the only way you get the Spirit of God is through faith in the Lord Jesus. Any spirit you receive apart from that is not that of Jesus Christ. There are many spirits in the world and they will gladly oblige you when given the chance. Please ask Muhammad! Your boldness at creating doctrines to fit una lifestlye don pass be careful! It seems some of you have gone beyond the state where you can be taught and we can only hope God will reach you when we give ourselves to prayers.

Let me tell you something, I am only tring to bring to your conciousness, the proper christian approach to these things. I was not there when he was a child. I am only telling you what i read that he said. At least i am not qualifying his statements with thus saith the Lord . You may not believe it but i tell you, a child that is born to Christian parents and raised as such will not be far from the presence of God. He might even find it difficult to tell when exactly he accepted Christ becasuse he can't remember being without him.

I remember that  growing up as a christian, i came across some christians who try to make you feel bad because you cannot remember the exact day you were born again. Well i don't not remember mine (but i can at least remember the month and year) but you can't cheat me out of believeing i am saved. The evidence is all around me. Glory!

TayoD:
2.The age of acountability Paul mentioned is common to all flesh and not those that have the calling into the five-fold ministries. Do you realise you are only trying to find scriptures to defend the indefensible? Can't you see the loophole in your effort? !

I really do not understand you. Are not those who are called into five fold ministry first christians? Did they not become christatins first? I have not given the impression that i am defending TB or have i? I am only trying to get you to see and talk the way Jesus does. I am not making an effort to make  him a prophet or a chrsitian. He is who he is no matter what i say here. In fact i think you are the one trying to make me appear to be defending him; even going as far as telling me what doctrines i believe and what it is that Josuah believes. Are you God?

TayoD:
You talk about the fact that he attended Anglican school but fail to mention the muslim schools he attended too. You also fail to tell us that in Joshua's church (I don't know if he took it down now), is an inscription beside the potrait of Jesus on the cross saying: "There is no deity (God) but Allah". This is a direct quote from the Qu'ran. Is this the man you call a prophet? Whose Prophet if I may ask and what have you seen in his ministry for you to tag him a Prophet?

Well, If you think i will come here and begin to lie in the name of revelation like some do in  order to achieve their selfish aims then you are mistaken. I am only telling you what i heard him say. I am not one of those who prophe[i]lie[/i]. Please someone should ask this guy if he has seen that quote with his own eyes. And talking about taking the inscription down; does that not look like[i] leaving a way of escape if found out to be a lie[/i]. I can only judge by their words. The only way i know Pastor Okotie or Bakare or even Kumuyi is born again  is by their words. I do not follow any of them home to find out for myself. Let us assume that he had that inscription there, is it impossible for him to have discovered that that was a wrong inscription?

Again, what if he really has not repented ( even though from what i see form his life and messages, he appears not only to have repented but to be leading many in the way of repentace all around the world)? well when i face the master at the judgement seat of christ, i will say, i only let God's Word be the standard.

Do you know that all these definitions about salvation you are giving only recently became clearly understood by the church? Then, it was the expeience that mattered and not the definition.
I have read the Prophet's comments on this issue and he  said from a child he had always saught after God(and that is possible). He said, God kept him from doing those things that other young people do: partying, drinking, smoking and so on(which is also possible). He attended the Anglican church as a child and read the bible at sunday school. According to him, His sunday school teacher noticed there was something special about him, a presence whenever he read the scriptures.

Is it possible for God to call a man from His mother's womb? Emphatically yes!

Luke 1

But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

   14And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

   15For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Have you read about William branham Who never saw a bible but recieved the call as a child?
God used supernatural signs to get his attention. The wind will blow, he will hear God speak audibly, commanding him never taste alchohol. That was all he knew about God, until he began to learn God's word. 

His ministry was characterised by  tremendous manifestations of the Spirit.

Have you heard the story about the founder of the redeemed christain church of God who got his thirst for God satisfied at the cherubim and seraphim church?

What about saint Patrick who was a Roman catholic priest, whom God spoke to in visions and dreams and who was used in a mighty way to bring the Gospel to ireland by miracles signs and wonders. We never hear of the day he answered an altar call. What about mother theresa. Have you found out when she was born again? Why TB Josuah? is it because of the miracles?

Apostle Paul said, i was alive before the law once (that was before the age of accountability) but when the commandment came (time of accountability) sin revived and i died. That is why, little children sometimes manifest certain gifts like visions and healing because of their union with God. Unfortunately, they are many times misunderstood.

I know certain preachers who have spoken carelessly about these issues; well, where are they now? Definitely not in the power of God because he resists the proud.

I know you will come out again to in your usual manner to debunk what i have just said. But a word is enough for the wise. If you do not understand a thing, keep your mouth shut and let God speak to you. You will speak carelessly when you have a pastor that speaks in like manner. But when you are full of the Spirit, you speak from above and not anyhow.

I have looked over the years. All those who said pastor Chris recieved money to say this man is of God have been proven to be liars themselves. They no longer appear to be walking in the Spirit or desiring to be full of Him. It is eveident. They now seek political power thinking they will get from man what they are unable to get from God. It is God that has all power. They are now in a struggle to remain relevant.

Others have by their many false prophesies and empty words, been taken for  jokers. Where is that word of Prophecy that comes with power, making kings to tremble at the presence of God? Where are the prophets?

The most recent  came with the words that our president will die come may 29th 2007. The man is still alive and well. This is the third time this prophet has sspoken falsely.

Yet, these are the same people who have made public the so-called revelations about  T.B.  whereas, those who spoke and published these things in the papers have been flocking into the church, confessing their sins of blasphemy. They declare false stories as thus saith the Lord. They have been exposed and put to shame.

Every tree which the Lord God hath not planted shall be uprooted.

Many might not understand this funny guy but i do.

You see, for a long time, the gospel of Jesus has been wrongly delivered and explained.

Many have been made to believe the they are saved because they wear jump-up trousers, long skirts, and carry around smelly, kinky hair and arm pits.

But in these last days, God has raised apostles who will teach God's people and bring them into their inheritance in christ. Where they will not be slaves to sin or satan. Where they will reign as masters in this life. This message of the kingdom will grow and increase whether satan likes it or not. Men of God like the late Arch Bishop Idahosa, Pastor Chris Oyakhilome cannot be stopped until they have finished their assignment. Such ministries are actually sent to change the face of Christianity. It is not the work of man but of God.


Some trust in their righteousness and know not God. Now that this righteousness of God is preached and many are coming into the kingdom by it, they become angry because they are loosing ground. Their righteousness which they had established and trusted in has been busted by the appearance of Christ and His righteousness.

You had better appreciate what God  is doing so you do not unknowingly make yourself a candidate for hell with your mouth.

I can bet you, he is not a member of Deeper life, I mean a true member ( even though he wishes he was).

He is one of those that have backslidden, hoping that by displaying such self-righteosness, they could guarantee a place in the kingdom.

God is not mocked. You are either a child of God or a child of satan. No middle ground!

What if by any chance he dosnt? Do you know what will happen to ur tongue? I can tell you: It will roast in hell 4 ever n ever.

And just in case you think because you dont believe in hell it dosnt exist, the suffering actually begins here on earth; Its only a matter of time before it becomes evident that you are paying for the wrong use of your tongue.

Jesus!!!

A woman who had her bones crushed in an accident, had the pieces put back together by the annointing of the Holy Spirit giving the woman strenght to walk and live again. You tell me it was a psycholigical phenomenon? Absolute nonsense!

Let those doctors first heal those who come to them with HIV before they come and begin to display their ignorance.

I know some of them doctors who were given up to die but whom God raised. Praise be to Jesus!

Give satan a step and he will take two.

They succeeded in getting the CAN to influence the government to stopping miracle programming. Now the same CAN is calling on tele- evengelists to intensify their work. How ironical. I guess they have learnt their lesson. Or do they intend to win the muslims with fineness of speach and theology, without power??

And we are His extention in the earth today.

When they crticize the man of God, you do not speak about being counter productive; when someone stands to correct such an act, you now come with big grammer.

I'm a gift to my generation!

The lesson i get from this is that one does not need to be Obasanjo's (the president's) close friend to influence or decide the fate of the nation.

You can shake the nation from where you are with Obasanjo staggering in it.

All it takes is one man who knows who and whose he is; and his role as a citizen in this great country Nigeria.

[quote author=bari_kade link=topic=2667.msg1221216#msg1221216 date=1182365935]@donnie,

After going through your responses to earlier posts, I'd like to comment on areas where I deeply feel you accentuating the flaws in your reasoning:

That is not reason enough to suppose that Jesus was never manifested in the OT. He did so, especially in what we have come to understand as the theophanies. Just a case in point, please read John 12:41 - "These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him." Could I ask you: whose glory did Isaiah see; and of whom did Isaiah speak?[/quote]Isaiah saw the glory of God as made possible by the Holy Ghost for if God were to appear in His full glory before Elijah, he will not have lived to tell the story.

So it is with several other portions of scripture where God by the Holy Ghost appeared to men. He still does appear today. Many times, those to whom he appears see one like unto the son God. But the Holy Ghost makes it all possible.

It is okay with me when you say Theophanies (which refers to appearances of God in the Old testament) because i am very much convinced that God did appear in the old testament; manytimes, like a man. But I am not comfortable when you say Christophanies because i know that God the father could only have appeared in the Old testament by the Holy Ghost. I tell you, when you undersatnd this thing i am sharing through the Spirit, it will revolutionize your walk with God.

[quote author=bari_kade link=topic=2667.msg1221216#msg1221216 date=1182365935]Not true in the case cited above. Acts 4:26 does not point to the Church as "Christ" - first, because no NT writer ever confused the reference for "Christ" as pointing to the Son of God.

Second, in context Acts 4:26 was particularly in reference to the Lord Jesus --

(24) And when they heard that, they lifted up their voice to God with one accord,
and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea,
and all that in them is: (25) Who by the mouth of thy servant David hast said,
Why did the heathen rage, and the people imagine vain things?

(26) The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against
the Lord, and against his Christ. (27) For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom
thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people
of Israel, were gathered together, (28) For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel
determined before to be done.

You can see that it was rather against God's holy child Jesus (vs. 27) that the rulers had gathered![/quote]I am sure you are familiar with the law of double reference in scripture interpretation. Those in the book of acts who prayed actually quoted from the Psalms of David. These were the psalmist's words:


Psalm 2
  1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

  2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

The word, anointed is used instead of Christ.

Will it be wrong for me to call the Church His Christ?

When you understand this, you will undrstand fully what Jesus meant when He said  we shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit. This should not be mistaken, like many have done, for the infilling of the Holy Ghost. Because to be baptized with the Holy Spirt is the same thing as being born again.

The bible says:

1 Corinthians 12:13:

  13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

To baptise (Grk: baptizo) means to completely immerse.

When you were born again you were immersed into Christ. You were immersed into that anointing.

I know there is a second experience. That is the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I know that, because i know it is one thing to be immersed into something and it is another to be full of that something. But this experience should not be mistaken for the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

You know this is the reason why God cannot manifest himself in the Church today as much as He will want to; because of our wrong underatnding of God's Word.

[quote author=bari_kade link=topic=2667.msg1221216#msg1221216 date=1182365935]Please donnie, try not further misreading issues out of context so that we may be strongly persuaded that you have a good grasp of what you try to debate. All the references for Christ point to Jesus; and not one could be confused to mean the Church (Please see again Rev. 11:15).[/quote]I know there are some who are trying to give the impression that I am actually introducing something new. No! This is what is and what has been from the beginning. The church only lost it. The same thing with all the other kinds of teachings they had embraced over the years. The fact that it has been there a long time does not make it right.

I am not trying to confuse things. I am only trying to straighten you out and i tell you, once you understand what I am saying, most of the areas which seem to be cloudy in scripture will become clear.

Because I know there are many who are not sure about so many things which they say they believe. And this is the reason why the church is where it is today. There are many who are looking outside for what they already have. They are trying to become what they already are.

This is why many are not experiencing the manifestation of the Spirit and power as much as they should today. This is the reason for the lack of conviction and clarity in the delivery of the message of Christ.

I am suprised that I am still trying to make some believe that we are members of the same body of Christ_ Jesus being the head and we the body.

Well, a time comes when there has to be a change. And that change is already on whether you like it or not.


[quote author=bari_kade link=topic=2667.msg1221216#msg1221216 date=1182365935]Again, the reference to the Lord Jesus. That is uses "which" instead of "who" does not deflect from the fact that Christ refers to Jesus.

There are other verses in the NT where such language constructs use "which" instead of "who" in our English Bibles to speak of personalities:

1 John 3:24 - And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him,
and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us,
by the Spirit which he hath given us.
("the Spirit which"; and not "the Spirit who"

Jude 1:6 - "And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own
habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the
judgment of the great day." (notice: the angels which; and not the angels who)

3 John 1:5 & 6 - "Beloved, thou doest faithfully whatsoever thou doest to the
brethren, and to strangers; Which have borne witness of thy charity before
the church: whom if thou bring forward on their journey after a godly sort,
thou shalt do well"

1 Pet. 1:15 - "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner
of conversation"

The reference to Christ in Phil. 4:13 points to none other than to Jesus; and the pronoun "which" should not be used as the article of confusing and misinterpreting that verse.[/quote]Thanks for those references. Am I by them supposed to conclude now that I am no longer a member of His body of His flesh and of His bones? Should i conclude that I am no longer a part of that body where He is the head; that body called CHRIST?

No sir!

Ephesians 5:30
For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones

To touch me is to touch Jesus,
To touch me is to touch the anointed and the anointing.

Jesus in His prayer said:

John 17:
20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

  21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

  22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

  23[b]I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one[/b]; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

  24Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world.

Your will be done Amen.