₦airaland Forum

masseratti:
oh lord of mercy, so you think the tucano that was sold to us in Nigeria, the US did not make anything from it? 11MBP and they are not collecting taxes and export duties cum royalties from the company that drill crude? Oga you are right ooo, very right, continue.

"....the tucano that was sold to us in Nigeria...."
Sale was approved by the US Government because American Companies have parts in the aircraft.The Aircraft is made by The Embraer Defense Corporation. The Corporation is on the New York Stock Exchange. Any time they post their profits,the US Government will collect it's Corpoprate TAX. Again,the Income of the US Government is solely from TAX and Duties.The Oil companies pay tax of course,but the 11MBPDD oil drilled is NOT Exported.

The tax and duties from companies is only 9% of USGov. income. A whopping 49% is directly from taxing it's productive workforce from a pop. of 300+Mil.

What does this mean? The larger and more productive your population is,the more money you earn as a Government.Company taxes and duties are a pittance in comparison. The Question is.Why are we not productive?

The phenomenon. Simple.
Half his career was played with a bandaged Knee,but still untouchable.

masseratti:
oga lecturer, i will keep on coming down to your level, NNPC which is government owned company generated the bulk of Nigerian oil export receipts in conjunction with the IOCs the rest comes from custom duties and taxes, the US does not av a government controlled oil company like petrobras of brasil or Aramco Saudi Arabia has, that does not mean the US does not export, the US has the highest number of export of goods and services cum its internal generated revenue it dwarfs our own revenue in all aspects, apart from its taxes from its population it will still dwarf our own economy by nothing less than 2 trillion dollars and we are still managing 40 billion dollars, let me break it down for you, its like you comparing yourself that has 40 naira with your friend that has 2000 naira, oga you are poor. We can't produce more than 2.5mbp with our reserves even without opec restrictions right now, we don't have the reserves, and you want to compare that to a nation that produce 11mbp?common give me a break, its not about the exports by the way it's about what the government earns and what the value of what the people produce.

The U.S. Govt. does not make money from exports,its American Companies that do.The Govt. Simply TAXES those companies profits.Yet its income from corporate tax is dwarfed by income tax from its 300M+ active productive population. Its proceeds from the 11MBPD oil crude is got from taxing its people who consume the crude internaly not from exporting the crude. The US Govt. does not run companies ,so does not export. Understand?

masseratti:
america subsidise it's oil consumption, go and read you talking about export, what's the difference in that with what you consume locally? And you tax, export ts generate marginally 20%max on local taxes, duties and taxes are all the same its all money, opec does not compel non members from increasing their production level,Russia, US, UK are non opec members, Nigeria maximum ever output is 3mbd and we are not currently close to 2mbp, on your last statement, its not, the issue with America is if oil price jumps up more than 30% suddenly its economy contrasts, and no government in power want that to happen on their watch, but if it goes up steadily and with shale oil right now, they might say screw it you all go screws yourself we are good, crude oil is less than 2% of America GDP so why would that affect its spending? Aftect the economy yes, other things that are of lesser value can also. Am done dude I don't think you can understand.

Let me school you.

The Nigerian Economy is oil export dependent,to generate enough receipts to function.Why? Because we don't produce enough local value to run Government. 93% of our Export earnings are oil,which accounts for 51% of Federal receipts. OPEC controls how much oil we can produce depending on Demand and Supply Factors.
Taxation of its people (Income not Corporate) brings in 48% of US Government Receipts at a Hefty $1.6 Trillion dollars. payroll tax 34%, Coorporate tax is just $324B, at 9%.Then Excise,estate tax etc. Our Earnings from oil in the First quater of this year is $13.5B. Estimates for the year can then be said to be around $50B.

Do you see the difference? The max the Nigerian Federal Government can expect as revenue is $120B of which $50B is oil. However,taxation of the people of the U.S brings in $1.6Trillion to the U.S. Government(3x our Entire Economy).

More importantly,the U.S. Government has very little receipts from Export unlike our Government for whom oil receipts are 50%,hence subject to oil shocks. Simply put.The U.S. Government makes money from taxing its highly productive LARGE population and nothing else.

.

masseratti:
lolz I laugh in Cantonese with your postulation, a rich country is what? Oga please this is a public forum, let me explain it to you in a plain language, America does 11mbp we do 2mpd,they have 350 million people we have conservatively 150 million, they tax their oil companies 37% we tax 45%,plus NNPC, do the maths they have more money to spend on each individual than we do, forget about export or import, the point is what does each government get as tax and royalties divided by the population, may then you can understand why our population is a mess and disaster, we are the poorest in the world #fact. The only way out is if we restructure and make our taxation workable.

Do you think Nigeria cannot generate more than 2Mbpd? We wont be allowed by OPEC,simple. The 11Mbpd the US generates is not for export,hence not under OPEC,but rather for growing their economy.So yes, the U.S. Government will make a lot of money from taxing its very productive population that consumes that oil. Nigeria's oil Consumption is about 300kbpd and is even subsidised for the highly unproductive population.So whereas the US Government makes money from taxing oil consumption in its country,Oil consumption is a drain on our finances gained from oil production because we are not a productive society.

EDIT

The tax and royalties,is it not from a productive population?

masseratti:
I don't know where you get your statistics from but US has more oil than you think, the oil firms are owned by private entities who pay tax to the state and federal government, not having enough crude does not mean its not getting money from what she is producing, let me break it down for you like a 5years old USA produce 11million barrels per day for a population of 350 million, Nigeria does 2 million barrels per day for a population of 180 million, American produce 5 times what we produce for double our population.
UK population density? That's largely due to migration and the UK also has oil in the North Sea, the UK is not more than the size of South West Nigeria, Taiwan is not bigger than lagos and ogún state together, their population density is understandable, Nigerian case is total mess.

Let me enlighten you. The 11 Mbpd the US makes is for the internal economy of the US. i.e. for economic growth,not export. Like fertilizer for a farmer. The 2 Mbpd that Nigeria Generates is NOT for the internal economy. Nigeria is like a farmer selling his fertilizer to buy ogogoro. Hence Dutch disease.It is like a farmer addicted to alcohol,who sells his fertilizer to fund his addiction while remaining dirt poor.
Instead of a productive economy that has enough Electricity and Factories to cater for her population,produce the goods she consumes and export the excess finished product. We are all here waiting for the white man to search,find,extract,transport and sell our oil in his country and throw the few pennies we get each month to us to fight over.Lets face it, oil allocation is the life of Nigeria isnt it? Is the monthly oil allocation we depend on generated based on population? No. Hence,our wealth is not based on the productivity of our people but that of the nations that buy our oil. If tomorrow they say oil is 50K we will go broke,even with a population of 5 Million.

A rich country is a country that produces almost all she needs internally while exporting the excess for money. While,a poor country is one that can't produce what she needs even if her life depended on it. It has nothing to do with population. If not Niger would have a larger GDP than Canada.

How is Taiwan's population understandable while Nigeria's is a mess,except that Taiwan has a very productive Human Capital?.Does that Tiny island have any resource? They would have been worse than Nigeria,if they did not develop their Human resource.

Tundeobama:
nobody needs to tell me you are olodo who never attended Economics class before.Before USA increase in population Gdp must be able care for the current population.Nigeria is increasing with Gdp and infrastructure that can only cater for less than 90million,making 87million live in abject poverty.

You have exposed the fact that you are suffering from 'Dutch disease'. "GDP must be able to care for current population"? Is GDP free food? Do you not know what the "P" in GDP means? It means Product,the result of labour of some sort,not free oil. if Nigerias' GDP can cater for only a small population is it the problem of population or low productivity of the people? If we cut the population will productivity rise? No. Nigerians will indeed get richer with a smaller population but will not get more productive like the UK or US.

The are a lot of able bodied young productive men/women moving about aimlessly looking for work.That is productive capacity going to waste.Is it due to High Population or poor Government policy on Economic Growth.The lack of factories in Nigeria,is it due to population?

In a productive country,each person adds to the GDP and wealth through some form of employment. Inversely,in a resource based country like Nigeria suffering from Dutch disease, each individual subtracts from wealth(oil) and does not add to production.
Again, cutting the population will make us richer,but not more productive.That is why even though Monaco's GDP per capita is more than twice the US,the US is economically more powerful than Monaco.
The comments here about reduction in population is all about increasing individual wealth from oil not GDP production. That is a Lazy man's solution to economic problems. Cut our population and the GDP will remain the same,that is proof we are unproductive.

masseratti:
please come of it, the US government has one of the biggest oil reserves, alot of mineral resources, the population density is very low compared to ours and yes its people are highly skilled.

Please,give me a break.Who uses the oil the US has? Is it not the US itself?! Does she sell it as a natural resource or does she consume it herself AND IMPORT more for productivity? we don't know the value of crude oil viz-a-viz productivity,that is why we sell it for money. To lazy unproductive people,crude oil is a commodity you sell.The US does not have enough,is hoarding what she has,and buys wherever she can.Why? Because she uses it to drive economic growth.So does china,but not Nigeria. Nigeria sell oil the way a drunkard sells farmland.
Population density? Do you know that the U.K. England is more dense than Nigeria with less resource? It is all about growing and harnessing your "people power"

Our population in the 1970's was 50 million. In fact the purported statement by shagari that we have too much money comes to mind.Yet we STILL de-industrialised !! Was the population the cause?

wirinet:
Nigeria's main problem is OVERPOPULATION. When I say overpopulated, I am talking about in terms of available resources. How can you compare Nigeria to to US in terms of resources and landmass. US is about 6 times the size of Nigeria with just over one and a half times the population. The US is rich in both natural and human resources. I hope you know that the US has far more crude oil than we do. The US produces 14million barrels of crude per day, while we barely produce 2million.
Even in Africa, if we consider GDP per capita, we will come out as one of the poorest, due to our massive unproductive population.

what resource does the US Government have?....That's right,its people.

IbnAbdullah1:
I am southerner oh.
And I know what I am saying.
Having less children is the least of our problems.
Getting good hands to manage our resource is what we should be fighting for.

You think north are your problems?
SMH.
The typical lazy man's mentality is the easy catch of passing the buck.
The north has nothing to do with holding you or us down.


Did the north tell James Ibori to loot Delta state treasury?
Did the northerners tell Lucky Igbenedion to loot Edo state money?
Please, let's face our problems ourselves and stop looking for convenient excuses that will never fly.

Having more children should be a boon not a bane for a country that values it's intellectual resources.

In the typical African Mindset. People are a curse not a resource,while Natural resource is wealth and blessing, rather than hard-work and productivity. We have been suffering the "Dutch disease" for 50 yrs and counting and we still don't know it.
Cut our population to 1 million with the oil resource we have and our productivity as a nation will fall to 0,due to the same disease.

Edit: this is in support of what you typed.

Nigeria's problem is not population,but productivity.The US we are all fighting to go to is MORE populated than we are.Policies to increase the nations productivity is by far more important than regulating the non-criminal activities of people. Saudi-Arabia with a smaller population (30 million approx) than the US (325 Million) is not more productive,neither is Yemen (30 million approx) richer.

".....- tax revenue increased to N1.17 trillion in the first quarter 2018, a 51 per cent increase on the first quarter 2017 figure.

-revenue tripled from N700 million in 2015 to N2 billion in 2016, and again rose to N3.5 billion in 2017....."

I don't think increasing taxation on people during a recession is an achievement.
Every month end the alert i get is tax-tax-tax, on my bank account. To me that is not an achievement for a Government that can't provide employment to tax from.

keep on the lookout! we don't have anti venom in this country o.

If it was plotted by the PDP then that means the PDP is the Government while the APC is the opposition.,still. That the prime security agency of the state is not controlled by the president means that he is not in charge since the primary reponsibility of the FG is security.I believe the president should resign,most especially IF it was plotted by an external force.If plotted by the president he should resign still.Either way he should honourably resign.

so lets say i pay for the food this robot cooks. who is going to give me a job to earn money for food next time? Jobs are being lost to robots and only the coporate fat cats are benefiting as multibillionares are created.Meanwhile,the US is in massive debts due to credit card spending.But,its o.k. after all its Africa that buys their intellectual products without selling anything of value back. Maintaining us in poverty.

babadee1:
Bro. I'm not blaming Lagos for anything at all. I'm using it to illustrate what happens when population growth gets out of hand in a developing economy. Everybody starts to move to those few areas where there is high economic activity. If the population of Nigeria reduces then the strain on Lagos won't be so much.

I am glad you used the word higher economic activity.People are moving from less productive to more productive areas even though those areas are more populated.If the population reduces the strain will remain because those areas have lower economic activity irrespective of population.Same reason why people from smaller nations want to emigrate to the U.S. Not because of the high population of the U.S. 300+M but because of the staggering economic output. If not,why are Nigerians running from a nation of 200M to a nation of 300M?

babadee1:
I have already answered your question in the very post that you quoted. If you don't see it then you don't want to see it. Hopefully our policy makers will understand the issue and do something about our population problem before it's too late.
To the Lagos issue. The level of industrial activity in Lagos is high compared to other parts of Nigeria but it's extremely tiny compared to what is needed to grow the economy to be able to accommodate over 180 million people. The little bit of industrialisation is what drives migration into Lagos from all over the country and from neighbouring countries as well. This rate of migration and population growth is not sustainable for the future. Anybody can see that

Is it overpopulated Lagos that is to blame for poor economic growth of the country or all those smaller populated states with no industry?

Don't mistake population numbers and Growth rate.The moment the rate of Industrial growth begins to exceed population growth rate (notice I said rate),the country is already getting better even if the population is 700M.For example,if we have a population growth rate of 5% and and industrial output of 2%,the moment we hit 6% in industrial growth the wealth of the current population has slowly started growing irrespective of the number. Why? Because industrial growth is covering for population growth and more.

babadee1:
You're still missing the point bro. Population control is not the only thing that needs to be done. However whatever else you may do you will not get the desired results if your population is spiralling out of control.
Lagos is the smallest state in Nigeria and one of the smallest cities in the world. It has a population of 18 million now. In 50 years it's projected to be close to 90 million in Lagos alone. How is industrialisation going to be possible where there is no human capital? The majority of Nigeria's population are a drag on the economy. No productivity value whatsoever, not trained for an industrialised economy and effectively untrainable.
When a family only has one or two children they are forced to invest as much as possible into their kids. It's no longer a game of chance the way it is now. Give birth to as many children as possible then hope that one or two of them will make it to take care of others. That is the mentality of our society today and it needs to change.

Yet,it is the Lagos population and GDP that is the motor rather than the drag on Nigeria's growth isn't it?The same Lagos has one of the highest GDP/capita in Nigeria.One of the wealthiest states,and can run independent of Federal aid. Do you know why? because it is the most industrialized state in Nigeria.Proves my point. Many Middle belt states have smaller populations yet are much poorer/capita than 'overpopulated' Lagos and are not going anywhere fast.
A family of 3 with a deadbeat dad who earns only.#3000 is worse off than a family of 6 with a father than brings in #300,000.It is not population but productivity.
You talk about human capital? What is the function of Government? If we cut our population(the so called solution) would human capital suddenly improve?

[quote author=Ugosample post=69686509

let me use my own family as an example

My great grand father had 4 wives and at least 20 kids

12 boys


my grand father had one wife with 10 kids, my father was number 4.

(note that each of my grand fathers 11 brothers had at least 6 children each) Do the maths

My father has one wife and 4 kids

my fathers brothers each have at least 4 kids except one that has 3 girls[/quote]Also, your genealogy is proof of what I am saying, succeeding generation in your family had less children.

Ugosample:


This guy sef

Our grand fathers and grand mothers were giving birth to 12 which is true

And each of the 12 will also breed another 100

And those 100 will breed another

over there generations, it's much more

let me use my own family as an example

My great grand father had 4 wives and at least 20 kids

12 boys


my grand father had one wife with 10 kids, my father was number 4.

(note that each of my grand fathers 11 brothers had at least 6 children each) Do the maths

My father has one wife and 4 kids

my fathers brothers each have at least 4 kids except one that has 3 girls.

Now do the maths

What of my grand fathers brothers children's children


I did not even factor in the 8 girls that my great grand pa have birth to.

What about my great grand fathers brothers?


All these happened within under 100 years o

This is the scary thing that is happening in this country and it's a shame that even "educated folks" don't see the problem with this.

That is exactly what I am saying,as the density is increasing how many people are still having 12 in high density areas? Don't you know that 12 children from 2 is a growth rate of 600%?

Ugosample:
Nigeria's population almost quintrupled in 50 years (5 times more)

Tell me one country OUTSIDE Africa that has five times the population they had 50 years ago
India's population is say 1.2b today.
I can bet anything that India's population was not 250m 50 years back

China is 1.4 billion people

I am very sure that they'd population was not 400 million 50 years ago


The point is that the Nigeria's population growth is dangerous, and if it's not put in check, disaster looms

I think we need to be sterilizing the population using certain criteria to save that country, because ignorance and socio cultural beliefs stand in the way of many Nigerians to act responsibly

You mean with all our fraudulent census data?
I am more interested with the ratio of population growth with industrial growth,than population numbers.Those 50yrs ago you speak of were our grand mothers and fathers not regularly giving birth to 12 children?
It is a known global stat, as population grows a equilibrium point is reached as either wealth or density increases. We have neither reached high wealth or density.

Income/capita is closely linked to production per capita,which is correlated to industrial growth.As long as industrial growth is ahead of population growth ,Income per capita has a chance to grow.However, Nigeria has not been growing industrially at significant pace for decades, due to poor government policy and financial recklessness.Our population growth is steady and ahead of industrial growth,with an aloof government. Cutting population is a lazy attempt just to bring it down to levels that can be sustained by our current oil production levels (2 million barrels a day).Why? Because we don't produce anything we use. Simply put,we have no jobs.

babadee1:
I'm not saying it's the cause of all our problems. I'm saying we can never move from a low income developing country status without first putting population control measures in place. It's a totally different message I'm trying to pass across.
The issues of ethnic bigotry, nepotism and corruption also exist in other countries as well. A good example is India. But they are doing much better than we are because of one simple fact. They always plan the future of their country. Let us also start to plan.

I humbly disagree.It is a copt out. Population control is a lazy way to development as a country without dealing with the underlying problem . Cutting the population does not increase transparency,government efficiency and efficacy. Infact,there is no development,just increased wealth per capita from natural resources. As I said earlier,even at 73million in 1980 and at 50k to $1, we actually went backwards and de-industralized. The more wealthy a nation is with bad government and a small population,the faster they fall into ruin due to financial recklessness and corruption.

India which you quoted had a population of approx 10x ours in the same year (700M,1980).However,they have been developing industrially,albeit slowly.

quickly:
If every nigerian adopts a 1 child policy , population can never stop growing

Denmark right now is a population that is not growing because ppl are not giving birth

However their earnings as a nation is growing.

Also earnings are used judiciously
unlike in Nigeria where majority of the earnings is stolen or used to pay useless senators and politicans

A 1 child policy is designed to reverse population growth 'if' strictly adhered to. I.e 1 child matures and loses his 2 parents to death. Also,not all the children will reach to adulthood and procreation as a result of accidental death.

Denmark's GDP growth rate is as flat as its population growth rate(and that is for a country that accounts for its public finances).

However,in the absence of productivity,like in resource centered Nigeria,GDP/capita drops as population rises.If for example,we were producing 5x our current oil production level(10million barrels) and OPEC somehow allowed is to sell it. There would be more wealth per person,due to this oil production levels.

Again as I asserted, wealth is stolen by people who don't know how to generate it,and have found themselves in positions of trust of the public wealth without meriting it.

babadee1:
And who told you all those countries did not plan their population? Every country plans based on where they are, where they want to be at a certain time and the resources currently available to them. None of those countries you mentioned would be able to improve their economy if they did not have processes in place to manage their population growth. You even forgot to mention China sef. People love to talk about the Chinese economic miracle. The second biggest economy in the world and on the way to becoming the biggest. They have 1.4 billion population but their economic turnaround was preceded by a long period of a strictly enforced one child only policy. If Nigeria enforces a strict two children per woman policy today, I promise you in twenty years you won't recognise this country again.

My brother,Nigeria's population in the 80s was close to 73 million,yet we were de-industrialising. China had a population of 980 million and was accelerating In industrialization and economic growth. Our population is a catalyst for our current poverty levels but not the cause. Ethnic bigotry,Bad Governance and lack of the meritocratic process and a reward system is the primary cause.
ELDS (Educationaly less developed states) is a classic case of ethnic, affirmative action that rubbished meritocracy and the reward system and placed people in positions of trust who shouldn't be there ,this people in-turn,bring in those worse than themselves to shield their position.
This, is one of the cesspits that bred the monster that is corruption today. A monster that has tied this nation down.

It is only those who expect to be fed that see population as a hindrance.Give a man tools and he will feed himself. As long as growth in power generation and industrial growth is lagging behind population growth, poverty will occur. If a population stops growing it will age,become less industrious and ultimately slip into decline.

Can somebody not RIP again? After suffering in this world can we not rest?

That Tree strong oh! No scratch.

els0nm0rali:
Catholics don't believe in contraceptives of any kind except maybe NFP.

If a pharmacy doesn't have, you move to the next one. No issues here.

Well said,contraceptives are a bane on marriage, is the nexus of the baby mama and 'partner' culture. Use of contraceptives is all about mutual selfish pleasure with no consequence's attached. Abstinence remains the best prevention against AIDS and STDs.

Should these diesel and petrol engines be run indoors? I don't think so.. Also, you should reply to the assertion above.