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An excellent piece christembassey: the very implication of grace in our lives. Tithes: "the oga at the top" of modern day judaism: the message cannot be clearer than that. I look fwd to d cobclusion tomorrow. Hopefully ayoku and demi will finish up there papers too. May God grant that U find mercy in d day of our Lord. God bless U sir |
@Candour thank for this message. Somehow i succeeded in keeping myself from tears reading it. With this every effort on this convention has been worth it. Thank u teachers for ur delivery. We await a resounding finale from christembassey. Thank u enigma kun and frosbel |
Pastor Kun: The fact that one labels himself a christian does not automatically make him a true follower of christ. The bible warns us to be wary of wolves in sheeps clothing and expose false teachers/teachings. There is no way to do it nicely, you have to call a spade a spade. That said the Pharisees contrary to your assertion up there, were not only Jesus fellow believers they were the religious leaders of the religion Jesus practised only problem is that they were mostly hypocrites just like a lot of our religious leaders today and Jesus rebuked them very sharply. That said, another point to note is that Jesus did not discriminate btw his followers and others. So if I see a fellow christian falling out of line I am not supposed to cover up for him but rather I should rebuke him and call him to order like Paul did to Peter.So very well said. Check and see how many times the word dispute was used in Acts of the apostles and see how many times the apostles disputed to uphold the faith. Jeremiah said God has a controversy with the nations. Jude 3 says we should contend earnestly for the faith: my friend, it doesn't mean all this love making that is being advocated on this thread. There is a tough love from God; it is what makes Him a consuming fire. Lastly, look at what Paul said of false prophets in 2 corinthinans 10 and 11. He was not pathing them on the back. There is a place for a literal curse for anyone who teaches anything not in keeping with the gospel of Jesus Christ, Galatians 1:8,9, wether he is a Christian, angel, demon or otherwise. We are simply doing our job of propagating and preserving the gospel of our Lord. |
Damsman10: I will lyk 2 add to what d OP said regardless of ur arguments.Oh... no, not again... I will refer you to these websites www.tithing101.com (you can download a book here) http://tekoapublishing.com/books/tithing/index.html (a book make up the website with each chapter on each webpage) http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/ and you can download a book on tithing by a young Nigerian, Mofesola, here: http://mb.mettalloids.com/tithe-and-you-the-book/ Tithing has been overly debated on NL; there is no evidence that this will reduce. We have people who keep asking the kind of question in the OP. Do your research; Study the scriptures; weight the arguments both for and against; check the website and pray. Then make your decision based on what God leads you to do and not what people claim could happen to you in the name of curse or curses. BTW, after a good study and prayer myself, I no longer tithe to any church but give as God enables me. The above is the way I will answer every claim for tithing from now on for this forum, especially in this season of liberty to post anything that "blesses" us. Happy Reading! |
Goshen360: Information just reaching us now that our scheduled speaker is disconnected from the internet.We're looking forward to it. |
omsyhadex: Good Write UpIn addition to what Pastor Kun had said to you, I will say we all start with equal grace. "Equal" in the sense that God gives everyone something. But some could have five talents, three or one but we are equal in the sense that we have all been given something. In regards to the graces that follow salvation, we all have the same. We have all been equally saved through grace; we all have the same Spirit; and we all are going to the same heaven. But we can grow in all the graces we have been given by utilizing them for good works, just as Kun has mentioned. So that at the end of the race, some will have more graces than others. The reason being that they have used their own graces more than others. And I think it is on this bases we will be rewarded. I read it somewhere, were somebody said that though the church should be taught the gospel of grace, the danger arises when people do not use their grace and are just "feeding" on grace, grace and grace. Grace is given to be utilized. The starting point is the knowledge of the grace given; but it must be extended to doing something with it. I believe other teachers will do justice to this further. So the convention will be focused on revealing God's grace to sinners, helping present believers to comprehend the gospel of grace and encouraging us all to use that grace so we may grow in it. |
Bidam: Ofcos, you were in my thread a short while constituting a nuisance.Thanks for the insults. God bless you. I am here already. ![]() |
Bidam: I am not interested in your copy and paste job. I have addressed the issue of God's tithe on other threads.Deal with it.Who exactly is copying and pasting here. Was I the one that copied and pasted the OP above? |
Bidam: I believe you have a BIG problem with comprehension.I am at liberty to post an article which has blessed me and can also be a blessing to folks here.The last time i checked nairaland is not owned by you neither is the religious section owned by kun or any of your clicks[/b]More so can you kindly point from the post where it was mentioned that you have to sow to become rich? Such a bias is coming from you not the post.You can read whatever meanings you want from the post,that is your own cup of tea.With all this cherished liberty of yours, why are you denying another of his liberty: Bidam: Everything in the post is not wrong,the post never mentioned God as a money doubler,if you have any issue with the word of God concerning sowing seeds i think the reasonable thing to do is to go back to God and seek His help for more clarification on the subject matter.If you have the liberty to open a thread like this, anyone has the same liberty to make their own opinion known on it. You have now resorted to verbal e-wars, religious babblings and exchanges here because of what i posted? Abeg! go siddon, you shouldn't even have commented here in the first place,may be you harbor a grudge against me.Your heart is not right with God.Go and repent. The post did not say God is our messenger.All your statements are straw-man and fallacious.When you do the same it is not religious e-wars or babbling; until someone else does it. I shouldn't comment? abi? You are the one that makes the rules and break them at the same time. No one must comment; no one must make thier own opinion known except the most "holy" Bidam. Leave the state of my heart alone and learn to be more concerned about how yours is before God. You have now let the cat out of the bag grin I can visit any thread i want. You have NO RIGHT to tell me what to do or what not to do.Comprehendi?My opinion about you and your clique has been clear as noon day from day one I met you guyz on this forum. I was restrained from joining issues with you on the convention threads because those are not the avenues for it. But here is a good time for it. I am ready for you! All these are the babble of the religious market place.Paul still made appeal to churches in scriptures. If you are still honest with yourselves and not pick whatever suits your demonic doctrines. The Bible says: "Let him who is taught the word share in all good things with him who teaches. " (Galatians 6:6). Those who work hard at getting good spiritual food for others should be financially helped by those who are benefiting.This thread is not about Paul's appeal for support for ministers, this thread is about sowing seeds. Arm twisting God to bless man. Sowing seeds of money and for which ministers will be the chief beneficiaries. Check the whole collections made in the NT, starting from the time money were laid at the apostles feet to Paul raising collection for the needy in Jerusalem, it was all to meet people's needs. Today, it is how to enrich those who are already rich from collecting fraudulent tithes. You better concentrate more on your grace convention instead of constituting a nuisance to yourself and others here.Cheers.You know one of the blessings these men who teach the nonsense you put up there in the name of an OP have is that no one is there to challenge what they preach. But you and OLAADEGBU cannot come to this forum and put up this same nonsense. You will have people who will challenge you. And we would continue to challenge you, showing you the true purpose of God in our lives today, until you run out of business! Just in case you didn't see my second post, here it is: DrummaBoy: Before a sufficient analyses of this so called "gospel" can be made, one must understand were they are coming from and also comprehend the main purpose of the Holy Scriptures. The reason why God got involved in man's business dates back to the fall of Adam. When Adam fell, it was not in Adam to think of how he will be redeemed. He was as confused as we can be when we face challenges. From day one, God had been taking all the initiative. God created man without anyone spuring him to do so with seeds or money. When Adam was alone in the garden, God brought the idea of making a woman for him to help him. When Adam sinned, God told him that a seed of the woman was coming to reclaim the victory and immediately God killed an animal, setting for the first atonement for sin, and clothed man. |
^ You forgot to respond to my second post |
Pastor Kun:I like this one! |
uj_sizzle: What happened to ShdemidemiWe got in touch with him. He will still be presenting his paper as the convention progresses. |
Pastor Kun: @AllThank you Pastor Kun. Well done. |
^frosbel, thank you jare. You have been absent from the convention thread. Why? |
Before a sufficient analyses of this so called "gospel" can be made, one must understand were they are coming from and also comprehend the main purpose of the Holy Scriptures. The reason why God got involved in man's business dates back to the fall of Adam. When Adam fell, it was not in Adam to think of how he will be redeemed. He was as confused as we can be when we face challenges. From day one, God had been taking all the initiative. God created man without anyone spuring him to do so with seeds or money. When Adam was alone in the garden, God brought the idea of making a woman for him to help him. When Adam sinned, God told him that a seed of the woman was coming to reclaim the victory and immediately God killed an animal, setting for the first atonement for sin, and clothed man. All through scriptures we see God setting up the initiative for a relationship with man. Abrahm, Moses, Isreal's redemption from Egypt, etc, it is all about God and his sovereign workings in man's world. Then God sent Jesus to save us from our sins: not from poverty or sickness but from sin. Bc it is possible to be stupendously rich and well and be a wretched sinner in the sight of God. God's sovereign work of restoring lost humanity to himself is the whole purpose of the scriptures and it should be our too. Meeting our needs and other matters like that are the minute things that a same sovereign God has promised to do in our lives if we make his purposes on earth first things first. And this is the very thing the like of the OP are not doing. They are leaving the main issues and pursuing minor ones. They have imported a man-made gospel into the church, it is called the prosperity gospel. Where you can turn God into a casino machine and throw in your seed and expect a harvest. If it doesn't work at first, or if you don't je(eat) you keep doing it until you je. And you say you have not turned God into a money doubler that way? This is the root of all the false gospel we here today: replacing God with man. This is the reason the tithe fraud will never end. And it will not end because the chief beneficiaries are the pastors themselves. |
Opening Prayer: Lord, we thank you for how the grace convention proceeded yesterday. We ask that you will help our teachers in their presentation today and as many that read them will be blessed in Jesus name. Amen! |
Pastor Kun: @Bidam Bidam: Pls can you kindly point out the problem with the post without unwarranted attacks? Pastor Kun: Everything with the post is wrong, God is not a money doubler and you don't need to give any pastor or church money before God decides to bless you. God's blessings are purely by his grace and not by any filthy "seed" brethen are deceived into sowing. Bidam: Everything in the post is not wrong,the post never mentioned God as a money doubler,if you have any issue with the word of God concerning sowing seeds i think the reasonable thing to do is to go back to God and seek His help for more clarification on the subject matter.If you yourself have followed your own injunction "to do whatever is best for you and don't impose your teachings on (others)" you will not have to open this thread. Bc this thread main purpose is indicting your own position here: it is saying we should sow seed to be rich and of course the main beneficiary of this seed sowing are the Pastors. This is the reason for the Grace convention and I find it difficult to comprehend, with your understanding of God's word, that has turned God into our messenger - were we must do certain things to make God do certain things, you still had the confidence to want to partake of a grace convention or nominate people like yourself to partake of a grace convention. It is called grace: free of charge; unmerrited favour. For God sake, Bidam, you and the OP, and all those who confuse grace with works, do not believe in a gospel of grace! abi? If I were you (and I refrained to tell you this in the other thread because it was defeating the purpose of that thread, but I can meet you here on your own thread), I would not even think of partaking of the convention even if I am invited. Look at the topics there: every one of them run contrary to your cherished beliefs, so why would you or your friends wants to teach in a grace convention. It is all about grace, don't you understand? Back to Areogun and other modern day "gospel preacher", like you have been told, God is not a money doubler and we do not need to hear principles of getting rich: the bible doesn't not teach such. Scripture, especially the NT, is a scripture of grace. When God has blessed his people, they know what to do with it. They have enough sense and the Holy Spirit to direct them to give. If they are having challenges financially, it is also a matte of time, God will see them through it, there is no one on earth that has not passed through such temptation. So shove your seed sowing gospel in your pocket; no one needs it! |
SUMMARY OF ENIGMA'S DAY 1 PAPER TITLE: GRACE OF GOD REVEALED TO SINNERS OP Texts: Romans 5:6-8; Titus 2:11-14; Hebrew 4:16 The place of introspection: Are we really good? The definition of good for different individuals is different. When however we compare our goodness to God's goodness, which in effect is his holiness, we realize that our good is not good enough. God is absolutely holy and our good cannot meet his standard of holiness. Thus God set up the initiative of sending Jesus to the world and in him God offers to all humanity his goodness - His righteousness. Enigma: Thus, instead of exacting us to fulfill the righteousness that will be satisfactory in light of God’s holiness, God gives us the gift of righteousness completely free. Our only requirement is to accept the gift! Christ humanity's only hope. The teacher also discusses the doctrine of assurance: this is also God's initiative for granting the certainty of salvation to the believer who is certain to fall into sin. Along with this is also the promise of God's Holy Spirit to believer to help us live a life pleasing to God. Enigma:When a Christian truly realises that his righteousness is simply the righteousness of Christ, a righteousness which cannot fail since, essentially, it is the righteousness of God ---- oh what peace! It is not for nothing that we are told of the peace of God which passes all understanding!...You see, in the first place, a Christian is promised the gift of empowerment; the Holy Spirit will dwell in him, remind him and empower him to abstain from sin. The Christian himself is required to listen to the Holy Spirit, to be attentive and receptive, not to grieve the Spirit ---- to be continually filled with the Spirit. What causes us to fail and to fall into (hopefully only occasional) sin is that we do not submit enough or often enough let alone constantly to the Holy Spirit. Even at that, God remains gracious; even when we sin, we have an advocate in heaven; even when we sin, we can approach God for forgiveness ----- and He is always gracious to forgive us! Enigma concludes the paper by showing that their are consequences for rejecting this grace that God is extending to sinners. An eternity of torment without God: this torment could be hell or some other kind of separation from God but it certainly not something we are crafted to enjoy. Enigma: thus in the event of continued existence after death, and even in the event that all there is is separation from God and no “burning for ever”, even the separation may be seen as a form of “hell”. The teacher endeavors to show that God has extended his grace to all humanity and whichever way this grace is viewed, the person who accepts it is a winner all through. So whoever you are and whatever religious persuasion you have now, receiving Jesus as your Lord and Savior will benefit you both in this life and in the life to come. |
We want to thank everyone that participated into today's presentation. Our appreciation goes to Enigma for his very insightful presentation of God's grace to sinners. We thank everyone who made comments and asked questions. We thank God for an atmosphere of peace and understanding among us all. In spite of the little hitches earlier on, we thank God for saving the day. Grace convention, Day 2, opens tommorow morning. We ask that you come along with us and God will do you great good. Thank you. Day 1 of GRACE CONVENTION 2013 closes. |
This is just a little thought along some lines Enigma shared with us and that concerns the grace of God that offers eternal security to the Christian believer. Following my conversion to Christianity many years ago, I was discipled in a Pentecostal church and doctrines like that are considered anathema there. But I came across a little pamphlet that answered the question "Can a Sheep of Christ be lost?" It taught eternal security and I used the next five years or so to study the subject from Genesis to Revelation before coming to believe that the grace of the cross can extend such a grace to the individual believer. I have however, seen many other scriptures, like the one Abijam, quoted, that denied the Christian's security but it still didn't change my belief in it because 1. There were ample scriptures that supported it 2. Because it is what only God could do. It was also a doctrine that offered a lot of comfort to believers: it comforts the weak believer and helps him to know that God will aid him; and it humbles the strong believers and makes him to know that there is nothing to glory in save in Jesus' cross. One other aspect that this doctrine does is that it offers a lot of comfort in suffering. And while I do not wish to detract from frosbel's saturday's paper, I must say that by knowing the grace of God that secures a man's salvation, many have found strength to overcome tribulations, illnesses, wants, persecutions and all sort of sufferings. Another aspect of this doctrine is the severity of God: Paul talks about some believers who sleep in 1 Cor 11. Why? Because they refuse to discern Christ body and God places them in a bed of illness and they die. God disciplines his own; the very ones he has secured. His disciplining them is an act of his mercy. When I was not a believer, I followed the rap religion. Two prophets were my pastors in those days: Tupac and Notorious BIG. Sometimes i think it is the mercy of God that took those boyz away at the time they died, bc if not, I would never have considered Jesus. About a year ago I watched the movie made on BIG's life and I discovered he came from a Christian home: his mother was a sound believer. A few months ago, the report on the autopsy on his body was released. It was said that the bullet that killed him, came in through his back sides destroying all his vital organs, liver, kidney,etc. The report that I read off nairaland (https://www.nairaland.com/1126799/late-notorious-b.i.g-autopsy-released)said "At the time of his death, he had no drugs or alcohol in his system. Wallace was 6 feet, 2 inches tall, weighed 395 pounds and had a tattoo on his right forearm that read: “The Lord is My Light and my Salvation …”. I have heard people say things like when we get to heaven, we would be surprised at those we will see there. While the mighty may be missing, sinners will flock the place. That I think is the meaning of grace. God's ability not only to save but to keep safe. Lke in the case of Christopher Wallace, BIG, many believers stray from God and come under his discipline. They are saved but as through fire. Could it be that as Notorious as BIG was, we shall be seeing him when we get to heaven? Abi... what will lead a hardened rapper to have just a single tattoo on his body that reads the Lord is my light and my salvation if God was not his light and salvation? That is the grace that I trust to save me at the end; of course, not bc I plan to stray like BIG did. |
Bidam: Enigma,could you kindly explain how a christian can be continually filled with the spirit.Thanks.Ayoku777 is supposed to do justice to that subject by 6pm tomorrow. Let's stay tuned for it. |
@All Again, our sincere apologies. Shdemidemi sent in a private message saying he was held down by some unforseen circumstances. He promised to be here by 7pm. We trust God that he will be here anytime from now. We have two papers for tomorrow Pastor Kun (12 noon) and Ayokun777 (6pm). Shdemidemi should present his paper before that time. Thank you for forbearing with us and we also must thank our very able teacher, Enigma, that has kept the house occupied by his well placed paper. I have no regrets that his paper came first: it sure was the working of God as it has set the tone for the whole convention. Thank you everyone. |
Ajibam: QUESTION 1 Ajibam: GALATIANS 5VS4@Enigma Please can you attend to the questions raised by the able moderator? Others are welcome to try too. |
Enigma: PS I will try and do further editing on the forum version e.g. colouring/higlighting etc etc later/gradually.That will be a good idea |
Enigma:You may listen to or download that message The Only Hope by D M Lloyd-Jones here http://www.mljtrust.org/sermons/the-only-hope/ |
Enigma: Ah, will do that now!Thank you Enigma. Thank you moderators. Now, we can ask questions or make our comments on Enigma's paper. This will last until the next paper is presented. |
Enigma: PS I will try and do further editing on the forum version e.g. colouring/higlighting etc etc later/gradually.Good work Enigma. I want to assume that this post https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/3#17755962 is the last post of your paper. If it is, as you edit, please indicate "The End". Thank you very much. |
Enigma: ^^^I'd be happy to do that --- if ok with organisers?Again, we apologize for coming behind on the convention. The convention is on front page already and people are very expectant. The organizers are calling on Enigma to present his paper now, the one that was scheduled for 6.00pm. Shdemidemi will present his paper at 6.00pm instead. Thank you for bearing with us so much, showing forth that coveted and graceful fruit of the Spirit: Patience. |
Uyi Iredia: I know this one. Now why hasn't anyone brought the hymn 'Amazing Grace'. Saving best for last perhaps[size=14pt]Amazing Grace[/size] Amazing grace! how sweet the sound, That saved a wretch; like me! I once was lost, but now am found, Was blind, but now I see. ’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, And grace my fears relieved; How precious did that grace appear The hour I first believed! The Lord hath promised good to me, His word my hope secures; He will my shield and portion be As long as life endures. When we’ve been there ten thousand years, Bright shining as the sun, We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise Than when we first begun. Source: http://www.hymnal.net/en/hymn.php/h/313#ixzz2dIXBSbI6 |
RULES AND REGULATIONS FOR THE CONVENTION THREAD 1. Comments are welcome to the thread but we would encourage that they should be in keeping with the theme of the convention. 2. Comments, making reference to past discusses on other threads, are not encouraged 3. Questions are welcomed and should be directed at a presenter personally. 4. No use of abusive words or derogatory terms on the thread. 5. No personal attacks are allowed to the person of the teachers or organizers. 6. The planners are empowered to recommend comments that can be hidden to the moderator so as not to derail the thread. 7. The religion forum moderator shall be engaged to ensure rules of both thread and forum are adhered to. |
The Teachers, Time and Topics of Paper Presentations 1. Enigma will be presenting a paper on The Grace of God Revealed to Sinners. Here the teacher shall be presenting an evangelistic paper focused on showing how God has extended his grace to sinful humanity and would want all men to be saved. With a peculiar message to Muslims, atheist, Satanist, traditional worshippers, agnostics and every kind of religious persuasion represented on nairaland religion section. Time: Thursday 29th, 12.00noon https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/3#17755600 2. Shdemidemi will be presenting a paper on The Gospel of Grace from Genesis to Revelation. This paper shall be presenting a veritable introduction to the convention. The subject of dispensation shall be discussed, as the teacher endeavors to show us that grace is not a new concept but the very basis of God’s relationship with man from the very beginning of time. https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/8#17785197 unfinished 3. Pastor Kun will be presenting a paper on Christ and Him Crucified. The teacher shall be teaching the meat of Paul’s message to the Galatians. He shall show us the full implication of Jesus’ death on the cross. Time: Friday 30th, 12.00pm https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/7#17775897 4. Ayoku777 will be presenting a paper on Grace in the Manifestation of the Power of the Spirit. Here the teacher shall be showing that God is ready to empower the Christian believer with his grace and power to be a witness for him. We shall see the place of genuine signs and wonder, and the way the Christian can live a life in the fullness of the power of the Holy Spirit. Yet to present 5. Christembassey will be presenting a paper on The Implication of Grace in the Believer’s Life. The teacher, here, shall be showing us what God’s grace has come to do in our lives as Christians and how we can maximize it. This teacher shall be distinguishing between law and grace and why we must not mix it up. https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/11#17806357 Part one https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/12#17828156 Part two 6. Frosbel will be presenting a paper on Grace in Suffering. The teachings and lives of Jesus and his apostle showed an abundance of grace and suffering. We shall be learning from this paper that God’s grace is made abundant in the suffering that marks genuine Christian witness. Time: Saturday 31st, 12.00noon https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/9#17797994 [color=#006600] 7. Candour will be presenting a paper on Grace is not License. Here the teacher shall endeavor to show that abundance of grace in the believer’s life is not liberty to sin. We shall see the place of duty in the Christian life and how this is different from the laws of Moses. Time: Saturday 31st, 6.00pm https://www.nairaland.com/1416947/welcome-e-grace-convention-2013/11#17803555 |
@All On behalf of the organizers, I want to tender our unreserved apology for being behind schedule in delivering the first paper. The paper was billed for 12.00 noon but there are some hitches. It is being worked on. We crave your indulgence, as the teacher shall soon be serving it out hot! Thank you. |
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