₦airaland Forum

None of us knows who will make heaven or not only God. I cannot remember any scripture that says backslidders will not make heaven.
Hebrew 11 gave us heroes of faith like Samson and Solomon. They are both with the cloud of witnesses today. You would say they backslidded.
The issue still boils down to those Christ has saved Himself and not necessarily someone who answered an altar call.
What we should be concerned about is bringing men to God and making every man know his God himself.
As for the salvation Jesus bought, even sin cannot treaten it. Romans 8:28-end.
This an old argument: Calvinism vs. Arminianism. And there is no need rehearsing it here. Let it be sufficient to say Jesus saves to the uttermost and let us all trust Him alone for our salvation and not our works, regardless which side of argument we reside.

If you teach that Christian can loose their salvation, you say the cross of Jesus is not sufficient.
What sort Savior will Jesus be if He cannot save to the uttermost. He has said he would not loose a sheep God has given him.

So while I agree that so called Christians can be lost, the ones Jesus genuinely saved, he would keep to the end. Salvation is first a sovereign work of God; it however shown fort in the good works of the Christian. That is what I mean, sir.

Save for the 'Once saved, always saved' doctrine, I agree with most of what you have written

Thanks Eni for the expose
But the Jesus of that revelation said to tithe money. Anywhere the tithe is mentioned in the OT and NT, the tithe consist of crops and animals.
Are we sure we are not seeing another Jesus in that revelation? Every revelation must confirm scripture and the bible tells us that there is a sure word of prophecy more certain that revelations. So no matter the revelation any man has, it must always subordinated to scripture.

So that Jesus said we should tithe our income/money but scripture says tithe crops/animals. How about that?

To pay tithe may be akin to keeping law and grace and Paul in Galatians says it is falling from grace. ie, One can miss for paying tithe.
Not to pay tithe, may be akin to robbing God according to Malachi 3. And this earn hell according to the revelator.
See the dilemma?

I read the revelation and it got me thinking. In my meditation yesternight I remember Peter words that though they experienced a revelation on the mount with Christ, THERE IS NOW A SURE WORD OF PROPHECY: WHICH FOR US IS THE BIBLE.
Returning again to the same argument: Is tithe scriptural for the NT Christian?

Forgive me guys for my impertinence and doubt but this is eternity issue; can the revelation be of God? Does it justify the tithe?

Luluosas gave this website in one of the tithe arguing threads:

http://www.freecdtracts.com/testimony/revelation_of_hell_by_7_youths.htm

We continued walking, seeing thousands and thousands of people. There were young people, adults and elderly people suffering in torment. We arrived in a place that looked like a big swimming pool of fire, with thousands of men and women inside of it. Each of them had metal plate on their chest that read: "I am here for not giving tithes and offerings" When I read that, I asked the Lord, "Lord, how can this be possible, that people are here for this reason??" The Lord responded, "Yes, because these people thought that tithes and offerings were not important, when my Word shows it as a command." In Malachi 3:8-9 it says "Will a man rob God? Yet you are robbing Me. But you say, 'How have we robbed Thee?' In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you."

The Lord told me that when His people withhold their tithes, the works of the Lord stagnates and stops, and the Gospel is not be preached. People in this place suffered a thousand times worse than others, because they knew the Word of the Lord and disobeyed.

Can you read it through? Does it put to nought the argument against tithing? Including those who say there is no God or there is no hell?

Is the revelation scriptural?

Wow, Kun some allegation there but i won't be surprised @ them. But still alleged
But eighties... lectures @ UI. Pastor Kun you no be small boy O. Early forties?

Pastor Kun: Olubi johnson ke? He is a big time merchandiser of the gospel and he represents everything that is wrong with Nigerian pentecostal christianity. His church is run as a personal business of him and his wife.

I used to love the guy but I was becomming wary of his too many emphasis on Hagin and speaking in other tongues. Folks I am still trusting God for a good church O.

Bidam: You work in UCH? I was actually there with my sis in-law when her daughter had an eye ailment.

Yes I do. I am with the engineering dept.

Goshen I copy you on that. The thread says I am looking for a church but the underneath tone is to test the ground: THERE IS NO CHURCH IN IBADAN THAT DOESN'T PROMOTE THE TITHE. That is a kingdom emergency. I am not in a hurry to leave my present church but it would be nice to fellowship with like minded people.
To refuse the tithe is to have a balanced understanding of law and grace. Few do.
Bidam, not Olubi. He is the same as others. But when next U are in Ibadan visit me @ UCH! lol!!

Okeyz see an eye doctor ASAP. It could be as bad as glycoma setting in. But not to be alarmed, see the doctor.

I know Vine Branch. The tithe question disqualify them here.

hisblud: to the highlighted, what is your observation of the above, should we mix them grace and law as per balance, would appreciate your view on that...

Hisblud
You can scan through Goshen "library" and see the topics he's discussed on to find the answer to your question. Goshen is a lucid teacher and I am sure you understand him. Click on his name and it would lead you there. Cheers.

I believe hell exist and every man should trust Jesus alone to be saved from it
8ut the spirit driving kpongo to open a thread like this and relish the thoughts of people going to hell is not of God. Even God doesn't delight in the death of a sinner. Watch it kpongo; you yourself may leading the pack there!

thanks dmighty
I am still open to suggestions

Thank U Pastor Kun. U could email me ur findings

are you a babe in spiritual things? ok lets go to natural laws..is gravity not a principle? is aerodynamics not a principle? concerning the things of the Spirit is prayer not a principle? is faith not a principle? is sacrifice not a principle? is love not a spiritual principle?

Gravity, Aerodynamics, etc, are natural laws that obey cause and effect. Scripture does not teach that spiritual things like faith, sacrifice, love, etc, obey the laws of cause and effect the way the natural ones do. It is Oral Robert and Oyedepo that read their own meaning into scripture. There are spiritual things indeed but they cannot be explained away the way we do the natural. True faith is trusting in God, good or bad. True faith is the three hebrew boys looking the king in the face and saying we will not bow to your god whether our God saves or not.

you are the guys forcing your legalistic views on people who tithe.

Do take some times to find out what legalism is: you would realize that it has a lot to do with obligations, duties, forms, etc, just like tithing. Legalism does not give room for free will(offering); it insist on compulsion: Like you must tithe or be cursed. Freedom is do as you are led: such as I am propagating.

tithing is a form of giving which is clearly written in scriptures. no one is forcing a believer to tithe just like no one is forcing people to pray or go to church.and there is no extra biblical teachings on it except you are blind to the spiritual truth behind the tithe.

Tithing is a form of giving in the bible. My argument is that it is not a form of giving in the NT and it has been abolished in Jesus' cross.

now you are attacking persons. i hope that is not your ministry. first take the logs out of your eyes before thinking of removing the specks of others. Jesus never told the pharisees NOT to tithe.He was more particular about the weightier matters of the law.Are you for the weightier matters? or is it to visit every nairaland post ,

I don't have time for nonsense. Who is attacking who? I am telling you what these people preach and you are saying I am attacking them. Do they deny their own teaching?

creating false demonic doctrines and a web page called www.tithing101.com that believers ought not to tithe which is a form of giving?
of cos you can see i deliberately ignored abuses from frosbel and his likes.

The above website was created by Gary J. Arnold. A 69 year old man that resides in the USA. When I opened a thread on the question of tithe about a month ago, I saw it on his post. He did not even refer anyone to it. I went there myself and was suprised to see what I saw there. If you say Mr. Arnold's teaching are demoninc (all bc he is not as popular as Oral Roberts and his kinds who use TBN to popularize themselves and propagate their own doctrine of demons) it is rather unfortuate. But this is a public forum that allows for debate. You don't know me; I don't know you. We only can discuss through words. And that is the point. Let us see if our arguments for or against will make sense before all those who are reading this.

BUT IF YOU KEEP SPREADING LIES BECOS YOU HAVE ACCESS TO A COMPUTER TO DECEIVE THE ELECT.I WILL KEEP EXPOSING YOUR FALSEHOODS.TITHING IS A BIBLICAL DOCTRINE IRRESPECTIVE OF WHETHER YOU WANT TO CLEAN THAT FROM YOUR BIBLE.
do you really have faith? i don't think so..you are just quoting scriptures.the devil also quote scriptures na.
the devil always attacks what he doesn't understand. am sorry to tell you that he is using you too much.

[

Every word I write I stand to be judged by the Almighty God. They are words of faith that I hope to teach my children and as many as will receive it. I will beg pro-tithers to drop the argument. It doesn't make sense at best and it is demonic at worst.

Bidam
I have a history. And nairaland is not the place to state it but I can tell you that I have been like you before. I have once come to NL to say that my progress in life is owing to my faithfulness in tithing. But thank God I know better today. Till Jesus returns doctrinal differences will remain in his body. However, our hope is that these differences will not cost our salvation.

Example: if a church believes in covering of hair and the other does not; another believes women should preach, the other does not; or a church believes we should worship on sunday, another thinks it should be saturday. To me those are light doctrinal issues that really would not cost anyone his salvation. But if a church teaches that for you to be saved you must believe in Jesus Christ and be faithful to him by practicing his principle, like tithing to obtain result, while another teaches that salvation is by grace alone through faith (and that is not of man but the gift of God); the former church is teaching doctrines of demons, while the latter is teaching the bible (Ephesian 2: eight). Paul warned Timothy to take heed to his doctrine because through it he would save himself and his hearers. There are light doctrines for which if you believe or not you will still be saved (check Romans 14) but there are those for which your salvation stand on.

Bidam, there are two gods in this world God and Mammon. It would be good you know which of them is giving you the doctrine you propagate, and then you would know what is the end of the doctrine you propagate. I, for one, I am thankful I am free from the grip of these neo-Judaizers and free from tithing and all of its obligation.

Anyone can come up with a principle in the name of seeking for result.
Many yrs ago in my JSS, I stumbled on a book called THE COSMIC POWER WITHIN YOU - I cannot remember the author now. The summary of it was that every man possessed some power within them that can bring health and prosperity. Not once did the author mention Jesus or his sacrifice on the cross. He was basically teaching a principle. Of course, he lent credence to his gospel with hundreds of testimonies of healing and of prosperity.
The difference btw him and these new age pastors is that they mention Jesus and attach one or two scriptures to their principles. But they detest sound biblical exegesis that require searching original meaning of words and contextual explanation that will unveil their errors, and are quick to dispose off sound arguments as verbose.

Thanks Frosbel; Exactly my point: WHAT ARE THESE PRINCIPLES?
Before they come here with their extra biblical teachings let me tell what you what I think these principles are. They are time tested means to a result. The ends
is blessing and prosperity; the means is giving, tithing and first
fruiting. The scripture is Galatians 6: doctrine on seed and harvest and the proponents are false prophets for which Oral Robert is chief and Oyedepo the Nigerian proponent. While Bidam is the NL representative.
No one wishes to abuse anyone, what we don't realize is that biblical doctrine are to be believed and practised despite RESULTS. In the long run, in God's kingdom, we would receive our rewards for being faithful to truth despite what we experienced good or bad.
That is what FAITH is: Hebrew 11 - some experienced victories, some were killed. But all are of the cloud of witness today.
THE PRINCIPE OF TITHE AND BLESSING IS DEMONIC AND OF SATAN'S KINGDOM.

My question in the OP was what is Gible's position on tithing and what is the emphasis of his teaching?

I agree that there is a danger to be narrow, seeing preachers through a prism and then denying the blessing that could come some other way but then is the tithe question worth pursuing? I think it is. It may not be important to folks like Alex because it is either he support tithe paying or he doesn't feel paying or not paying is that important. But for me it is does.

Now my strife against the tithe answers the whole question I have had with why the state of the Lord's temple is what it is. We all know what Jesus' reaction was when he entered the temple. He took a whip and pursued folks out of it. His reason: do not make my father's house a den of theives(robbers). The central teaching that supports the tithe: Malachi 3 said some people where robbing God for not paying tithe. When the Malachi scripture is looked in on the surface, we think anyone who doesn't pay tithe is robbing God. But an in depth study into that text shows that God was speaking to the Priest (and the levites). The old testament shows that the people were to pay tithe of crops and animals to the levites. The levites were in turn to pay tithe to the priests (descendants of Aaron), who in turn brought it to the house of the Lord for there to be food there. The Malachi scripture showed that while the people were paying the tithe to the levites, there was a disconnect between the levite, the priests and God's house. So that at the end the house of God had no food. The robbers in Malachi were either the priests or the levites but certainly not the people(my proof is in the fact that God was speaking to the priest from the beginning that book and even chapter 3). Just as the robbers were the religious leaders of Jesus' day, it would not be suprising to know that today's robbers in the Church are pastors or religious leaders, and not innocent church folks.

Thus, for me, whether a Pastor teaches for or against the tithe makes all the difference. It makes him/her a robber or not one. Thus the reason why I would like to know Gbile's position on the tithe.

Now, when Jesus came he kept saying in his sermon on the mount "You have heard it said..." and then he would make the correction "But I say...", in regards to giving, prayers and marraige. Do you realize that God is his mercy does allow certain teachings to hold for a time but there comes a time he makes the correction. That the tithe has become popular in the past 150yrs or so does not make it the word of God. And the scripture makes it clear that many will be deceived in the last days; that many teach the tithe is in compatibility with that.

So Alex is right: I would see a man of God from this moment on from the "prism" of whether he supports the tithe or not, and yes, I am sensible enough, as Pastor Kun has warned, not to read the tithe into every message and loose the blessing that could come my way that way. But guys, the fraud that the tithe is, answers the question why money has become the central theme for so many churches today, while souls are perishing.

[/quote][quote]

alexleo: It is very wrong for you to brand a preacher bad because he is not against tithe or he is not against something you are against. Who is that man that has a 100 percent understanding of the scriptures? Nobody. Change your mindset. You can disagree with someone's message but that doesn't mean that all his messages are wrong. Develope an open mind to the word of God then let the spirit of discernment do the job.
Having said this, I want to say that I ve listened to Gbile's sermons and his messages are so wonderful. He is more of a new testament preacher. His teachings about contributions is purely the way the apostles did it. He is never a money preacher like we see among most pastors these days. I ve not heard him preach for or against tithe. Generally he is a true preacher of the sound word of God. I ve always wished he would be invited to preach in my church if possible. He is a more of a teacher of the word.

^ Alex, He, the OP didn't brand Gbile as BAD because he is not against tithe or he is not against something he is against o. Don't read into his words please. I 'guess' he is only asking a question based on his new findings. I never read his (OP's) line where he branded Gbile as BAD 'because of tithe'.

Thanks Goshen for that kind defence.

The issue Alex raised is worth considering:ie, having open mind rather than a narrow "anti-tithe" one, that labels everyone who teaches it to be in error. I want to say that Alex read between the lines well: I was gonna try to see Gbille from the tithe point of view. The reason is simple, during my undergraduate days in my search to know the Lord better Gbile was somebody who helped me great deal. Though I still didn't have that much access to his teachings, the little I heard I would say had a ballanced veiw on money. Although I cannot say wether he is for or against the tithe. It is understandable if his position is not really clear on it since he doesn't run a church. He has an inter-denominational fellowship group with regular meeting annually. Since the tithe is connected mostly with churches, it is understable why his position is what it is. However, I am convinced also that Bro Gbille's often takes positions regardless of whether it will be controversial or not.

TBC

Thanks Goshen and Frosbel
I am counting those who've listened to him to shed some light here
It doesn't distract from what I understand of the tithe as being practised today as fraud but I would like to know what folks on the forum think of him

ATM
What do U love about Gbile?
And do answer d questions I posted in the Opening

Pastor Kun, Goshen, Frosbel and Everyone who may be reading this: What Are View on Gbile Akaani Teaching
1. Do you know if he encourages tithe paying
2: What do you agree and disagree on his teachings