₦airaland Forum

honourhim:
Bro I think he wants you to be more specifc in answering the quesion he asked.

These are the two statements he made.

so when God created lucifer he didnt know
lucifer would turn bad

i think you are actually telling us God didnt
know that particular angel lucifer would rebel
or turn bad right?

So how can a rational being still made these statements after reading something like this?

God wants to create and He did create all things BUT HE ALSO WANTS TO CREATE beings that have MIND and it's not possible to create a being that have MIND without having POWER OF REASONING but in other for each being not to MISUSE THE ABILITY OF REASONING God also placed a COMMAND. God knows we can misuse this ABILITY OF REASONING that's why he placed commandment in between.

To ask why God create Day Star or Adam after He knows that they will disobey Him? Is to ask why God brought everything into existence in the first place?

Lastly, God wants to create and He created but it's not possible for God to create a being with MIND without having POWER OF REASONING that will make the MIND useless and WITHOUT MIND Angels and MAN are like A ROBOT.

And you still want me to be specific, specific on what?

OK let me put it this way, God created Lucifer WITH ABILITY OF REASONING because Lucifer has A MIND likewise other Angels & Man and God knows that Lucifer can misuse this POWER OF REASONING but every created BEINGS that have MIND also have COMMANDMENTS TO FOLLOW IN OTHER NOT TO MISUSE IT.

Hope it's cleared now?

yazach:
Although, I will not like you to change the topic but I will still answer you since you have no answer for the reason why the Original bible is not in circulation(Note: That means you are not a good researcher)

Another lie, when will Muslims stop lying for the sake of Islam.

What is the meaning of translate?

If I say 'Ekale' in Yoruba and an English man translated it to 'Good evening', does it mean that the English man didn't read the original meaning of Ekale in Yoruba?

Answer to your question
Just to protect its authenticity

Yet the first copy collected were burnt.

All the ORIGINAL Bible MANUSCRIPTS IN POSSESSION TODAY WERE OLDER THAN MUHAMMAD, so which one is more authentic?

If anybody gives you a disgusting translation, you can just try and learn the language then you know if he is lying or not and this makes the Qur'an unique in its understanding

We have many Hebrew, Latin, Greek, Aramaic Bible today so what is the point?

Remember Muslim scholars first rejected translation of Qur'an into other languages that's why you will find Qur'an mostly in Arabic EVEN TILL NOW MOST MUSLIMS STILL BELIEVE THAT READING QUR'AN IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE IS NOT THE BEST they believe it is best in its mother tongue which is Arabic.

Yet those Arabic Qur'an are not the EXERT MANUSCRIPT of Uthman's copy BUT A COPY THAT HAS BEEN rendered to fit for reading where some CONJUNCTION, DEFINITE article, INDEFINITE articles e.t.c were added to make it more sounds to read.

Rilwayne001:
LMAO
Guess someone is scared to see [size=14pt]how errant the book called bible is[/size] .

Another time you will display your ignorant is d bolded part, how can an errant book called Bible still contain the prophecy of Muhammad?

Have you finally made up your mind that Muhammad is no where to be found in Bible? (even though is not actually there)

If I'll scare not with the Word of God called Bible but something I don't have any clue about.

I just don't have time for old bullshit.

I'll ask this question for the last time, are there contradictions and errors in the bible or not?

For the last time, how can a contradictory book prophecy the coming of Muhammad?

Please answer this^^ question...

please do answer my question...

I can't remember reading any shabir alli 101 contradictions, and i'm not copying any article for you

You can't remember but you aware of his book with that title.

why are you scared, Just answer my question...biko

why are you scared? Just answer my question...
You called it scared but the truth is I don't have time for RECYCLING subject.

I'm still coming back to this but please answer my question.

Are there not contradictions in the bible?

please do answer my question, how can a contradictory book prophecy the coming of Muhammad?

You don't get me at all

yazach:
This is not a Joke o broz. It is a matter that needs serious thinking.

Then you're a liar

Why have I not set my eyes on the Original Bible?

Neither I set my eyes on the original Qur'an.

yazach:
Shehu Emusan(Drink Orange in youruba lang) by the time you gather 10 Qura'an together, you will see 7 of its original language

But bible chai chai hypocrisy of the highest order

I know you're just joking and this shows how truth is far from you!

Rilwayne001:


I asked the question first, please answer my question and lets start from there

I don't need to answer you because I know the next thing to do is to go and do copy and paste of Shabih Alli "101 contradictions in the Bible"

But my point here is how can a rational mind believe a book that contains a lot of contradictions ALSO still believe THE SAME BOOK CONTAINS THE PROPHECY OF THEIR PROPHET.

Doesn't this show how Muslims reason?

In your first post you asked, who wrote the CHAPTER the OP quoted?

By saying CHAPTER; it shows how dubious you are because YOU INTENTIONALLY DID IT in other not to condemned the rest of John's book because YOU STILL BELIEVE John chapter 14, 16 contain the prophecy of Muhammad so you can conclude that John chapter 1 is forgery whereas John 14, 16 that contain Muhammad prophecy (according to you) is not forgery.

SMH.

Rilwayne001:
Simple question:

Are there not contradictions in the bible?

Simple question:

can a contradicted book still speak about the coming of Muhammad

yazach:
Now the question is:
why are we not having the original bible with its original language in the circulation as you have the translated ones?

Does Quran also circulate in its original Arabic language the way translated one does?

You can't pick the log in your own eyes but busy seeing someone's else own.

Rilwayne001:
how does asking question turns lying

Are there not contradictions in the bible

e-diot

Funny dude!

You believe Bible contradicts and the same time prophesy the coming of Muhammad, what are you displaying?

Ignorance!

johnydon22:
i think you are actually telling us God didnt know that particular angel lucifer would rebel or turn bad right

Your problem is pathetic if you can't find my two post comprehensive enough to digest by asking this question.

Rilwayne001:
Just shut your fvcking mouth.... okay

I never quoted you here, did i?....

Must you?

Stop lying in Christian post OK!

johnydon22:
first of all lucifer is the latin word for morning star or day star as you called it.
so when God created lucifer he didnt know lucifer would turn bad

Your problem is pathetic if you can't find my two post comprehensive enough to digest by asking this question.

honourhim:
@Emusan,

A few questions for you my brother.

1. Do you believe that God sees the end from the beginning as the bible said?

2. If your answer to question one is yes then does that not mean that he was aware that Lucifer will rebel before creating him?

3. If he was aware, why then did he create him?

Had it been that you read my post above you wouldn't have asked this question.

God wants to create and He did create all things BUT HE ALSO WANTS TO CREATE beings that have MIND and it's not possible to create a being that have MIND without having POWER OF REASONING but in other for each being not to MISUSE THE ABILITY OF REASONING God also placed a COMMAND.

God knows we can misuse this ABILITY OF REASONING that's why he placed commandment in between.

To ask why God create Day Star or Adam after He knows that they will disobey Him? Is to ask why God brought everything into existence in the first place?

Lastly, God wants to create and He created but it's not possible for God to create a being with MIND without having POWER OF REASONING that will make the MIND useless and WITHOUT MIND Angels and MAN are like A ROBOT.


Come Lord Jesus!

Rilwayne001:
With all the contradictions in it?

Yet the same book that full with contradictions still prophesy the coming of Muhammad or Muhammad's name can still be found on it.

Confuse fellow!

johnydon22:
so God created the beautiful angel lucifer so he can turn bad, and he will send him down to earth and later on you blame lucifer for all his misdeeds... who will you blame the car that hit someone or the person driving review all this and tell me how it corresponds with God being all good, all loving, all merciful, all just and loves man so much...its impossible

And you said you're born again YET what you're doing is nothing but using your mind of Atheism to conflict the reveal word of God--BIBLE.

Now let me enlighten you small.

Firstly, God didn't create Lucifer/Satan what God created was 'DAY STAR' it was Day Star who turned himself to Satan/Lucifer. Satan/Lucifer simply means OPPOSITION, so it was Day Star's action that made him became OPPOSITION.

"Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, [size=14pt]till unrighteousness was found in thee...,[/size] Thy heart was lifted up because of thy beauty; thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I have cast thee to the ground; I have laid thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Ezek 28:15, 17

As you claimed God didn't create Day Star so that he CAN TURN BAD, know this that all creation of God that have MIND were created with POWER OF REASONING and when Day Star put his own POWER OF REASONING into action beyond his limit by lusted after his POWER and BEAUTY he became OPPOSITION, HOW?

He forgot that he is a created being so he wants to put himself in the position of God even the higher position above God.

Secondly, you want to know why God cast Satan to Earth and not another planet or destroy Satan at once!
Know this first that Bible may used Earth for where Satan was cast to but it doesn't necessarily mean that it was only planet Earth the BIBLE says Satan found no place no more in heaven and he was cast down.

Now let's look at Day Star challenges before he was cast down;
"And thou saidst in thy heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; and I will sit upon the mount of congregation, in the uttermost parts of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High. Isa 14:13-14

We find two things very astonished in this passage;
1. This evil desire was still IN THE HEART of Day Star
2. Day Star said he will SIT UPON THE MOUNT OF CONGREGATION, which congregation is he talking about?
This congregation can't be the Angels.

Now after all these challenges if God destroyed Day Star instantly the rest of the Angels MIGHT THINK God is unjust for destroying Day Star for no reason, so what God can do is to allow enough time to pass so that DAY STAR can prove all what he thinks in his heart BUT NOT IN HEAVEN because the Lord can not dwell with iniquity.

So God hurled Satan to the lower part of heaven where Angels and Man can see for themselves whether Day Star can meet all his challenges.

You may ask, didn't God know that Day Star will become unrighteous/Satan before He created him?
Yes God knows that Day Star will become OPPOSITION because God didn't create any being that has MIND to be ROBOT but they all posses the POWER OF REASONING and for a creature with POWER OF REASONING not to over use this ability God also placed a COMMAND.

I can't go full detail about this...but I hope this will help a little.

Understanding how Day Star became an opposition against the perfect creation of God and how God handle the situation helps believers to trust more in God for His justice, God is not an Unjust God He will always deal with us just fully.

I'm a fallible man with a limited mind trying to discern an infallible and unlimited mind of God, my post is opened to correction.

In the service of our dear Lord I remain...come Lord Jesus!

johnydon22:
i have been wondering, why did God send satan and other fallen angels down to earth.. why didnt he just kill him off or send him to one remote galaxy too far away from the milky way galaxy. so he threw satan down at us and started playing bet with the devil over souls is earth the only planet their is

Do you just want to mock God or you're in need of truth?

If you want to mock God, the answer to your question is seek for knowledge.

But if you're here to seek for the truth, then I can give my little contribution.

Kay17:
Faith is the most central element of Christianity and Islam. It forms the basics and epistemological foundation of these religions.

Yes because Christians are dealing with an invisible God just as the writer of Hebrew put it "And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that [size=14pt]he exists[/size] and that he rewards those who seek him." Heb 11:6 RSV

How possible to believe in an invisible God without holding unto to faith?

It is by Faith the revelations of God are accepted by the Patriarchs of the religions: Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Elijah;

It is true that they later accepted the revelations of God through faith BUT God first revealed Himself to them.

and the acceptance of God's spiritual realm separated the physical.

How does it separate it? I need more clarification.

It is by Faith of the believers, that Jesus' death, sacrifice and resurrection are fulfilled.

You're wrong here! Jesus' death, resurrection and sacrificial offering for sin are WHAT believers placed their FAITH of assurance of SALVATION.

It is by Faith the Bible and Quran are believed to be the Word of God.

It is first true BUT can't be applied to the rest of believer's activities.
As I said earlier you must first HAVE FAITH that God exists (if God didn't reveal Himself to you in the first place) because you're about to deal with an INVISIBLE BEING but what most people including some Christians themselves failed to know is that, God doesn't want us to have BLIND FAITH that is just believe in Him without any prove, if you read from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God wants to FELLOWSHIP with US.

How can God fellowship with us without revealing Himself to us? It is impossible.
Jesus said "21 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?"
23 Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him." John 14:21-23 RSV

As you can see it here, Christian God promised all those who love Him A PERSONAL ENCONTER as it spreads out from OT.

Paul the Christian theorist saw faith as "an assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." He goes further that "for in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?" and "so we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."

Absolutely correct!

The simple conclusion, faith is a prospective lenses, it turns against against this reality in search of a transcendental reality.

You've confused believers' faith on afterlife promise with that of SEARCH of invisible being.
Mind you Christian do dive more in search of reality but don't search on how universe came to be, the origin of life, why planet earth support life and others don't e.t.c

The transcendental reality is not visible [size=14pt]nor justifiable on earth but in the hearts of the believers.[/size] Hence Faith is just like other epistemological lenses such as rationality is used in the physical reality.

There was a little problem with the bolded part when we consider some points;
1. What is the origin of believing in supernatural being, did man just wake up one day and started building up false reason about supernatural being to create God, or the supernatural being actually revealed himself to people and these people share their encounter experience with their relatives?
I remember when my grandma was sharing her life story with me, she narrated everything she has passed through. I only have two OPTIONS about her story (a) It's either I discard it by concluding that the story is false, but why must I discard her story? Is she telling those story to scare me or deceive me? is she just pouring out her mind for me about what she has gone through in life? Actually, this is what most parent do.
or (b) I took it as her true life experience (which is happening to everyone of us)

2. Why every culture throughout the whole world have one story or the other about supernatural encounter?

The world created by Faith due to its prospective nature might be beautiful but it conflicts with our innermost defence most valuable in our reality -- healthy skepticism.

It will conflict Atheist reality BUT those who have had personal encounter with God know it doesn't conflict anything.

Our innate nature to trust only things of the material reality makes us deny a transcendental reality as a fantasy.

If you never had supernatural encounter you won't believe supernatural do exist...Younguz
You may deny it but the truth is that they do exist.

My question, is Faith beyond our healthy skepticism fantasy?

Faith is the FIRST process to draw near God and in reality God reveals Himself to those who draw near Him.
So FAITH is not beyond your scepticism fantasy BUT a little step you can take to draw yourself nearer to God who is ready to reveal Himself to you so that your knowledge of transcendental reality can be opened.


I'm a fallible man with a limited mind trying to discern the mind of an infallible and unlimited God my post is opened to correction.

In the service of Our Lord Jesus...Come Lord Jesus!

Rilwayne001:
Emusan
Can you now see the reason why you are banned forever from the Islam Section?

Olodo!!! I wasn't banned because I abuse or go against any rules BUT BECAUSE I DIDN'T DENY JESUS BY AGREE THAT MUHAMMAD IS A PROPHET OF ALLAH, ALLAH IS the true GOD e.t.c

You can't do without insulting those who we held in high esteem.

You think I'm insulting but I didn't and I'm saying the truth.

Is Allah not a deceiver?
Did Muhammad not believe people can lie for three reason?
Did Muslims not follow the teaching of Muhammad?

Are you this stwpid

If you can answer my question then I'll know what to say

After all those lies of the bible God

And the same God sent Muhammad

Its high time i stop conversating with you since you lack courtesy
Fvcktard

Then stop lying like Allah and Muhammad on Christian topic

Rilwayne001:
Pele



I'll either create another moniker and aaccept the condition or mail the mod to please allow me to accept it with my moniker, that is if i can't sleep without posting or opening thrreads here,
There are several other sections on Nairaland (about 20sections), why should I be obsessed and hold seun for restricting me of access to just only one.



If you notice me I stop opening thread on this section because of the restriction...

Seun is the owner of Nairaland and he is responsible for his decision. We all know what you guys do whenever you come to the Islamic Section, you visit the section to insult us by calling us names (terrorist, Bh, and all sort of names like that), some of your minions will even come to open thread that are offensive/provocative. If you guys stop at insulting us alone it would have been okay, but you would go ahead insulting those who we held in high esteem, you are not exempted, you do insult the prophet (saw) insult God almighty thinking you are insulting the name Allah. that alone is enough for me to support seun's decision..

Our threads dont make FP again, why? because of you people offensive words But with the restriction, everything is going on smoothly, is'nt it?





Must you comment on the islamic section
There are non-muslims that can comment on the section is'nt it?

mazaj accepted the condition, is he a muslim?
other non-muslim dat accepts the condition are they muslims?
Does dat make tthem a muslim?

It is only when you are obsessed with Islam, when you cant do without talking about islam that you will accept the condition. So why crying fowl all around.

Before you entered the IS you rread the instruction that "islam for muslims, even the mods are muslims"
So are you a muslim?
must you comment there?

If its a must then accept the condition...biko




Why don't you mail seun about it

Don't let that one derail this thread your respond says it all.

Rilwayne001:
“Therefore let us abandon the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to more maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works but of faith toward God” – Hebrew 6:1

This^^ is probably the most brazen attack by Paul on the Christianity taught by Jesus. In this verse, [size=14pt]Paul had the temerity to imply that Jesus' teaching was immature,[/size] while he, Paul was the smart alec to take Christianity to the next level.How right Paul proved to be, for his heretic perversion of Jesus' mission has now become mainstream Christianity.

Even though I have told you time again and again that Paul isn't the writer of Hebrew YET you never yield to it.
@Bold-Let's see whether the writer of Hebrew abuses Jesus of immaturity or you're the one displaying your ignorance.

"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God," Heb 6:1 (NIV)

A good English student can apply h/her knowledge here get what the verse is saying, this is the reason I quote NIV for you

As evident from his harangue quoted above,Paul disparaged Jesus' teaching as “repentance from dead works”. But what were the “dead works” Paul denounced ? His rants in his other epistles provide the answer – “works of law”:

“For all who rely on works of the law are cursed” – Galatians 3:10

“For no human will be justified in his sight by works of the law,since through the law comes knowledge of sin” – Rom 3:20

“For we believe that a man is justified by faith even without works of law” – Romans 3:28

I use to say it since Allah is a deceiver and Muhammad believe nothing wrong with lying then Muslims will never stop lying and the TRUE GOD hate lies.

You intentionally accused the writer talking about "WORKS OF LAW" when the NEXT verse provided details of what verse 1 means.
This is verse 1&2 together
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
2. instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.(NIV)

Here the writer talked about:
1. Instruction about baptisms, who gave this instruction? Jesus! Matt 28:19-20
2. The laying on of hands (Baptisms of the Holy Spirit) even though Jesus didn't say it as laying hands, John 7:38-39
3. The resurrection of the dead, did Jesus teach anything like it? YES! Matthew 22:31-32, Mark 12:25-26, Luke 20:35-38, John 5:21-25.
The four Gospels record Jesus teaching the resurrection of the dead, does the writer accuse Jesus? Not only that Jesus teaches resurrection of the dead but Jesus also demonstrated it by raising people from dead.
4. and eternal judgement, who teaches this? Jesus Christ! John 3:18

The “law” of course being traditional Judaic law which Jesus wholeheartedly supported:

“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away not an iota,not a dot will change from the law until all is accomplished.Whoever changes one of the least of the commandments, and teaches men so (e.g. Paul), shall be the least in the Kingdom of heaven”– Mathew 5:17-19

“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void”– Luke 16:17

Do they fulfil law or obey law?

I only show you how you misinform your audience in that book of Hebrew you quoted above NOT to talk about the teaching of Apostle Paul on SALVATION THROUGH FAITH.

Paul never slander Law BUT teaches SALVATION BY FAITH, hope you can see the difference?

Rilwayne001:
I will comment tomao

You will comment because there's no rules that prevent you to like in Islam section.

Yet none of you can raise alarm that seun should allow others to visit Islam section.

How will you feel if you think something is wrong in the OP but for you to click REPLY a form pop up says:
Are you a Christian?
Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?
Do you believe Jesus died for your sin?
Do you believe Jesus is Lord?

I agree... or No...

Then you click No...and FOREVER you can't reply, quote, or create any thread in this section, how will you feel?

This is what non-Muslims are facing right now in Islam section and you come here with gut to say I WILL COMMENT TOMORROW instead of you to hide yourself somewhere because of INTOLERANCE of Seun.

I comment on a thread yesterday before I know the it was moved to Islam section and you quote my post BUT I COULDN'T reply it because I'm forever BANNED in Islam section SIMPLY because I REJECT Muhammad's claim.

CANTICLES:
in John 16:13 Jesus use " he" to personify it , but Christ himself knows its not a person ..So he states " and i will request .... The Father to give you the spirit of truth...You know it, bcoz it remains with you and is in You" John 14:16,17 Interestingly He uses "it" ,!! Peter explained " he ( Christ ) was exalted to the ryt hand of God and received the promised holyspirit from d Father, (christ) has POURED OUT this wich u see and hear"

How does the jargons you put up answer my question and who is talking about pronoun here?

It seems you don't have answer to my questions.
Here are the questions again;

John 16:13 says "...whatsoever he shall HEAR..."

1) How can a force HEAR?
2) The Spirit will SPEAK whatsoever he HEARS, who is talking to this force according to JWs?

zeemahn:
As you rightly pointed out "with greater intellect ".
Religious people are usually irrational.

As if you and some Atheist folks on Nairaland can withstand some Religious fellow here in times of intelligence.

They keep telling you they have proofs but can't actually prove.

Yet you call yourself a greater intellect, how can you prove miracle?
If miracles can be proved then it's no more a miracle.
That's why miracle is an event that occurs when HUMAN KNOWLEDGE AND POWER fail.

I'm praying in my room suddenly God descend and fellowship with me, how do you want me to prove this a faithless person like you?

Meanwhile, I schooled in France

So it means only people who school in France that are intelligent or what are you insinuating?

MODIFIED
Religious people also avoid this kinda thread religously.

Maybe you just join Nairaland if not you'd have seen that this type of thread has been created time upon time here.

When you see them here they'll bash,insult,and vamoose

Bash insult on you because you're the first Atheist or greater intellect


@OP
I believe you copy this from someone's work which makes you a believer in this ARTICLE anyway this is not where I'm going.

I only want to answer this your two questions

QUESTIONS
1. What faith were you born into (religion)?

Does it matter which religion someone was born into?
A born Atheist has become a Christian and a born Christian has become an Atheist or Muslim.

2. Despite your conviction, how do you know
of a surety that your faith is the right path to
God?

One thing is very constant and stand sure in Christianity that THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH reveals and fellowship with His creatures that He created in His image.

This runs through Genesis to Revelation, though Bible says without FAITH we can not please God Heb 11:6 BUT many people have misinterpreted this statement in THINKING that Bible is talking about BLIND FAITH which is totally FALSE because God doesn't just want us to be following BLIND FAITH that's why He makes it clear severally in the Bible that if He will reveal Himself to those who love and do His will.

So the true God still fellowship with those who ready to do His will.


My Question:
We have seen a born Christian turned Atheist and a born Atheist turned Christian, why is it so?


**If you've never had supernatural encountered you won't believe supernatural exist**


I am a fallible and shallow-minded man trying to discern the mind of an infallible God.


Come Lord Jesus!

CANTICLES:
Knockout to all the prophets of Baal ........ Its not uncommon for the scriptures to personify a thing ! Wisdom is said to help God to create the world as stated in prov 8:30,

This shows that you don't know what your organization teaches because JWs agree that Prov 8 support the creation of Jesus as first created being by quoting Prov 8:22. So if you now said Wisdom is personified that negate JWs believe.

Christ Jesus himself personify wisdom again saying it has children?? Is wisdom a person so as to have children ..... Now Lets Dive Into The Deep Things Of God!!! Jesus himself personify the holyspirit by using " he" ... [size=14pt]Did i say personify ?? Yes,[/size] of course infact its high time u let the scripture explains itself on what the holyspirit is , when the scripture say the spirit intercedes in rome 8:26 , its explained, that this was done thru Jesus Christ ( Rom 8: 34) !! When The scripture says the spirit spoke , honestly this is done thru an Angel, or a man ( compare Act 21:3, and Act 21:10,11) .... While revelation 2:7 says the spirit spoke, this was done thru Jesus (rev 1:1) .... So, let the scriptures now give the meaning of holyspirit , Matthew 3:11 " that one will baptize u people with holyspirit and fire" !! Gud, is fire a person??

In fact the rest of your post show that you're confused.

CANTICLES:
So, if fire is not a person ... What makes u absurdly think the holyspirit mentioned is a person !!! "Baptized with" exactly as water ...... SCRIPTURES EXPLAINED : ACT 1:8 "but you will receive power when the holyspirit arrive upon u" ! This scripture shows its d power of God! ...... Luke 1:35 explains d holyspirit as the " POWER of the most High" ! Walla power again ...... Rome 15:13,19 Explains as " May God fill u with ..... The POWER of the holypsirit"power again!!! Luke 4:14 explains "Jesus returned in the power of the spirit" described as power again !!! This helps Jesus to perform many powerful works(Act 2:22) The Father Controls and give out this force to equip us with POWER (LUK 11:13, lik a generator emits current, holyspirit emits from d Father 1the4:8,Act 2:32,33)Apostle Paul examines "for all things i have the strenght by virtue of him (God) who imparts Power to me" phili 4:13,dats why pple can be " Filled with" it Act 2:4,&it can be " poured out"Act 10:45

I once asked a JWs this question he couldn't answer me in fact he didn't know whether such statement appear in Bible and he is a long time JW because he told me he has spent more than 10years as JWs.

John 16:13 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, [size=14pt]but whatever he hears he will speak,[/size] and he will declare to you the things that are to come." RSV

The Bolden part is my questions based, if Holy spirit is a God's active FORCE as JWs claim;
1. How can a force HEAR?
2. Who is speaking to this force? Because this force suppose to be generated from God according to JWs.

Had it been that you prove read this your copy and paste work very well you'll have clearly seen this contradiction BUT BECAUSE THE OWNER OF THE ARTICLE KNOWS that Muslims will be carried away by h/her lies s/he cooks this lie AND THE OWNER OF Nairaland Seun Osewa has helped Islam to cover their lies by separating Islam from religion section and PLACED ONLY ISLAMIC OATH there so that non-muslims will not comment or create thread.

But thank God you put this where your lies can be shown on to you.

emmyrabson:
The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word ‘Islam” itself means. [size=14pt]The Arabic word “Islam” means the submission or surrender of one’s will to the only true God,[/size] known in Arabic as “Allah”. One who
submits his will to God is termed in Arabic a
“Muslim”.

YOUR last statement read:
Thus, Jesus like the prophets before him and the one who came after him, taught the religion of [size=14pt]Islam: submission to the will of the one true God.[/size]

Here is your contradiction, you first define Islam as "...submission of one's will to the only true God..." then at the conclusion you define it as "...submission to the will of the true God"

Qus: Are we submitting OUR WILL to God or we are submitting to the WILL of God?

The religion of Islam is not named after
a person or a people, nor was it decided by a
later generation of man, as in the case of
Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ,
Buddhism after Gautama Buddha, Confucianism
after Confucius, Marxism after Karl Marx, Judaism
after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the
Hindus.

We agree!

[size=14pt]Islam (submission to the will of God)[/size] is
the religion which was given to Adam, the first
man and the first prophet of God, and it was the
religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to
mankind.

You said here again that Islam is a submission to the will of God.
What is the will of God? please support it with Quranic verse(s)

Further its name was chosen by God
Himself and clearly mentioned in the final
scripture which He revealed to man. In that final
revelation, called in Arabic the Qur’an Allah states
the following:
“[size=14pt]This day have I perfected your religion for you,[/size]
completed My favour upon you, and have chosen
for you Islam as your religion.” [Qur’an 5:3]
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam
(submission to God), never will it be accepted of
Him.” [Qur’an 3:85]

The underline is very funny so, Adam and the rest of the prophets were following UNPERFECTED religion before UNTIL ISLAM was perfected during the time of Muhammad.
Then Allah is unjust God by making A SINLESS and POWERFUL Prophet like Jesus to practice imperfect religion in His life time.

Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion
brought by Prophet Mohammed into Arabia in the
seventh century, [size=14pt]but rather to be a re-expression
in its final form of the true religion of Almighty
God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam
and subsequent prophets.[/size]

"...re-expression in ITS FINAL FORM..." then you go further to say "...as it was ORIGINALLY REVEALED to Adam and subsequent Prophets"
This still means that Allah caused both Adam and the prophets to followed imperfect religion.

At this point we might comment briefly on two
other religions that claim to be the true path.
Nowhere in the Bible will you find God revealing to
Prophet Moses’ people or their descendants that
their religion is called Judaism, or to the followers
of Christ that their religion is called Christianity.

You're right because Christianity is not a religion, it is HUMAN who define religion BUT God shows His way and will to MAN by using man.

The idea that there's NO GOD brought the word RELIGION to mean PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN a GOD or GODS.

In other words, the names “Judaism” and
“Christianity” had no divine origin or approval.

If you have full understanding of the word DIVINE you wouldn't have said this.
Allah is divine because it's the name of the creator, so if Jesus is divine so be it His name and His derivative.

It was not until long after his departure that the
name Christianity was given to Jesus’ religion.
What, then, was Jesus’ religion in actual fact, as
distinct from its name? (Both the name Jesus
and the name Christ are derived from Hebrew
words, through Greek and Latin. Jesus is the
English and Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which
in Hebrew Is Yeshua or Yehoshua’ (Joshua)
[messiah], which is a title meaning ' the
anointed'.) His religion was reflected in his
teachings, which he urged his followers to accept
as guiding principles in their relationship with
God.

And these followers are the one who say Jesus is DIVINE that means Muslims didn't follow what Jesus instructed His follower
Another point you miss which I never see Muslims address is that Quran says Allah gave Jesus "THE GOSPEL" which means "GOOD NEWS or GOOD TIDING", what is this GOOD NEW/TIDING?

In Islam, Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah
and his Arabic name is Eesa.

In Islam again
Then why is it that if a Muslim convert to Christian, it's something else? this is what the Op is asking.

Like the prophets
before him, he called upon the people to
surrender their will to the will of God (which is
what Islam stands for).

What is the will of GOD according to Quran?

For example, in the New
Testament it is stated that Jesus taught his
followers to pray to God as follows:
“Our father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
may your will be done on earth as it is in
heaven.” [Luke 11:2/Matthew 6:9-10]
This concept was emphasised by Jesus in a
number of his statements recorded in the
Gospels.

In fact had it been that you read Luke and Matthew that you quoted with an open mind you will know Jesus didn't practice what you know as Islam because Jesus said "OUR FATHER..."

He taught, for example, that only those
who submitted would inherit paradise. Jesus also
pointed out that he himself submitted to the will
of God.
[size=14pt]“None of those[/size] who call me ‘Lord’ will enter the
kingdom of God, but only the one who does the
will of my Father in heaven.” [Matthew 7:21]
“I cannot do anything of myself I judge as I hear
and my judgment is honest because I am not
seeking my own will but the will of Him who sent
me.” [John 5:30]

God will judge you and your master who intentionally twisted Jesus word in that Matthew 7:21.
Islam is founded upon lie that's why LIES is permitted by Allah because Allah is a deceiver no wonder Muslims will never stop lying for propagation of Islam.

Your author says the beginning of Matthew 7:21 is "NONE OF THOSE..." and an open-minded person can see this obvious perversion of the Holy Bible.
What Matthew 7:21 says is "NOT EVERYONE..."

There are many reports in the Gospels which
show that Jesus made it clear to his followers
that he was not the one true God. For example,
when speaking about the final Hour, he said:
“No-one knows about the day or hour, not even
the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the
Father.” [Mark 13:32]

And this same follower called Him the Son of God which your book denied.

afolag:
Then you have to find out the truth by yourself, I use to ask myself also that what if my parent happened to be ifa priest.
Val download" Quran and mordern science by DR. Zakir naik" from youtube am sure after the 2hrs video you can tell where the book comes from. It always good to clear doubt.

So what of other religious book that agree with modern day science, are they from God too?

haffaze777: Jesus died. But God cannot die.

YES we agree that the HUMANITY of Jesus died BUT not the DIVINE one that’s why Jesus can go and preach to those spirits that were once imprisoned why the body is still in the tomb.
Have you ever asked yourself if Jesus ceased to exist at His death how can He preach to those spirits?

Jesus died but God raised him from the dead.

But Jesus Himself said He’ll be the one who will raise Himself, did Jesus lie?

Jesus calls himself “the beginning of the creation of God.” (Revelation 3:14). God confirms this, declaring to Jesus: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You.” (Psalm 2:7).

So you mean it was during the time of psalmist that Jesus was begotten, then how is He the beginning of God’s creation?
And The Father called Himself “The beginning...” Rev 20:6 please The Beginning of what?

But the Father himself is not begotten.

In what sense does Jesus was begotten?

He has no beginning but is from everlasting. The psalmist declares: “Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” (Psalm 90:2).

But The Father is ”The Beginning...” the beginning of what?
Jesus is also from everlasting Micah 5:2

Jesus has a Father. But God has no Father. Jesus has a God. But there is no other God but God. Jesus says to Mary: “I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.” (John 20:17).

Yet you said below that The Father called the Son God.

However, it should be understood that the son of a lion is a lion.

See how this below statement exposed your perverted teaching.

Therefore, Jesus, the son of God is a God. God the Father calls Jesus God, confirming his divinity.

If the Father called the Son God then the Father isn’t the ONLY GOD.

In your above illustration you said ”The son of A lion, is A lion”
Now see how you omitted (A) in case of Jesus ”Jesus, the son of God, is a God”
After you omitted a you still went ahead to say “...is a God”

Your statement should be like ”Jesus, the son of (A) God, is a God” BUT you purposely omitted that (A) because of its implication. God sees all your injustice.
It’s either the son of lion, is lion or the son of a lion, is a lion, which if we apply it to Jesus
It’s either the Son of God, is God or The Son of a God, is a God

Again what do you mean by DIVINITY of Jesus?

He says to Jesus: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” (Psalm 45:6-7).

Thank God you agree that these verses are for the Son.

So how many God do we have now?

These verses were quoted by the writer of the book of Hebrew the question is, what does this writer has in mind by applying this verse(s) which is solely explain the activities of the Yahweh to Jesus Christ?

Jesus explained to the Jews that in the scriptures: “(God) called them gods, to whom the word of God came.” (John 10:35). Indeed, God calls his sons gods. He says: “You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men,” (Psalm 82:6-7). He also says to his servant, Moses: “I have made thee a god to Pharaoh.” (Exodus 7: 1). Moses himself declares to the Israelites: “The LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords.” (Deuteronomy 10:17).

So far that The Father called everybody including The Son “God” that means the Father is not only God.

Paul summarises it thus: “Even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; [size=14pt]and one Lord Jesus Christ[/size].” (I Corinthians 8:5-6).

See how you exposed your shallow knowledge on scriptures again.
Since Deu 6:4 & Mark 12:29 say ”The Lord our God is ONE LORD” how then Jesus can also be called ONE LORD here? See how you contradict yourself.

In short, God is not Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is only one God and it is the Father.

But remember you agree that The Father called the Son God and other people in the Bible, so how the Father is now only God?

There is only one Lord and it is Jesus.

Yet Deuteronomy 6:4 & Mark 12:29 say ”The LORD our God is ONE LORD”.
That means Jesus is God.

As a man cannot be differentiated from his spirit,

Is it the spirit of man that is controlling the body or it is the body that is controlling the spirit?

so God cannot be differentiated from his spirit. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God.

Can God put His own Spirit into action? If God can, then it means the Spirit of God can be separated from God.

God has no equals

Is the Spirit of God the same as God?
If God has a Spirit, is it the Spirit that is controlling God’s body or God’s body controlling the Spirit?

The word “Christ” is not Jesus’ surname. It means “the Anointed One.” But the anointed must be subordinate to the anointer.

Does this name CHRIST apply to Jesus’ DIVINTY?

Nowhere in the scriptures is it ever said or implied that God is anointed. However, Luke says: “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power.” (Acts 10: 38).

Jesus was anointed on earth not in His divine existence.

The Jews accused Jesus of making himself equal with God. (John 5:18). But Jesus never makes such claims.

You show it here again, when Jesus says God is His Father the Jews perfectly understood Him that’s why they said He’s making Himself equal with God, Just like the illustration you gave in above about a lion (even though you twisted it) so for Jesus to say God is His Father they knew that Jesus was claiming DIVINTY, which you agree with. Then I want to know what you mean by DIVINTY of Jesus!

Instead he says: “My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28).

Yes the Father is greater than Him in position.

Jesus submitted totally to God. At Gethsemane, he said to him: “Not My will, but Yours, be do-ne.” (Luke 22:42).

Yes we all know that.

At-one-ment with God Nevertheless, Jesus declares: “I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30). However, the sense in which he makes this declaration is qualified. Jesus only does the will of the Father. (John 6:38). He only speaks the words of the Father. (John 14: 10). The works he does are the works of the Father. That is the true atonement, ensuring that he who sees Jesus sees the Father. (John 14:9). Jesus prescribes the same atonement for us. He says to God: “I gave them the same glory you gave me, so that they may be one, just as you and I are one: I in them and you in me, so that they may be completely one.” (John 17:22-23).

In fact this is not only getting out of hand but also astonished that ATONEMENT means the above.

Do you know the meaning of ATONEMENT?

haffaze777:
By Femi Aribisala

Who can help me post my reply to the original author of this article?

The word “Trinity” can be found nowhere in the Bible.

Just as the word “Bible” can’t be found within the scriptures.

Can you tell us why the whole scripture was called Bible?

It is completely incongruous with scriptural understanding of God. God is not three persons. There is only one God and it is the Father.

Then you contradict yourself by saying that The Son was called God and others in the Bible.

Jesus says: “salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22). Salvation is neither of the Romans nor of the Italians.

So in what way does this relate to the topic at hand?

The Trinity is an unscriptural concept, smuggled into Christendom under Roman Constantine by cloak-and-dagger means.
Precepts of men Jesus says to God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17).
But the doctrine of the Trinity is a lie. Here is the lie: “There are three that bear witness in heaven:
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” (I John 5:7). This so-called scripture is counterfeit. It is non-existent in the original versions of the Bible. It was smuggled into the Bible by Trinitari-ans. Today, you will only find it in the King James editions. The very fact that
Trinitarians found it necessary to smuggle I John 5:7 into the Bible in order to validate the doctrine of the Trinity shows conclusively that the doctrine is fake.

Is this only the verse in the Bible that Trinitarian use?

The cardinal principle of God is simple and straightforward. Here it is in a nutshell: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.” (Deuteronomy 6:4). This is validated by Jesus himself. (Mark 12:29). Therefore, hear O Christians, the Lord our God is not a Trinity. The Lord our God is one [LORD].

I added “LORD” so that you can see how THIS statement contradicts your own word below.

This is your own statement ”... and one Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Corinthians 8:5-6).”
Deuteronomy said “The LORD our God is ONE LORD and 1 Corin 8:6 says JESUS IS ONE LORD, doesn’t that tell you that Jesus is God or should we agree that these two verses contradict themselves?

Jesus berated the Pharisees for teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. (Matt-hew 15:9). Many churches have fallen into the same error with the Trinity fallacy.

If only you could reason within your own statement then you will know you’re the one teaching the precepts of men.

Family of God John says: “No man has seen God at any time.” (John 1:18). But men have seen Jesus.

Yahweh appeared to Abraham in form of MAN Genesis 18 did Abraham see God or another thing?

What you failed to know is that this particular verse was talking about seeing God AS THE WAY HE IS i.e in totality of His majesty by completing the statement that ”...; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

Therefore, the expression “God” refers exclusively [size=14pt]to God the Father.[/size]

@bold-then we can as well have “to God the Son” the bolded is a statement that makes God to be more than ONE.
Next time let your statement read like ”Therefore, the expression “God” refers exclusively to The Father”

Jesus never refers to himself as God; he reserves that terminology solely for the Father.

He never says “He is GOD” they say He blasphemy what if He now plainly says I am God, what would they do?
Yet you said the Father called the Son God :-/ :-/

When someone called him “Good Teacher,” Jesus replied: “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 19: 17).

In fact this is another scripture that shows those who against Trinity lack understanding of the scriptures, why? Another funny thing is that some people will even say Jesus rejected being called “GOOD”.
Whereas in John 10:11 Jesus says ”I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep”
See how this same verse prove Jesus to be God
^Only God is good
^Jesus is a good shepherd
^Therefore, Jesus is God.

Jesus never says God is a Trinity. Instead, he reveals God is a family.

Are you still talking about the Father alone? because you’ve already said that The Son is God and other many people in the Bible are gods.

The head of this family is the Father. God’s household include Jesus; God’s sons and servants; and angels. That is more than a trinity.

See how this article mixed everything together,
The question is, The Father is it the only God? Which you have said No! So how many God can we find in this God’s household?

The man-made concept of the Trinity makes God an exclusive triumvirate, limited to “the Godhead. ” However, the Christ-revealed portrait of God makes God an inclusive and growing family, open to all believers.

I guess these believers are gods too according to you,
You couldn’t tell us whether the word “GOD” has a separate meaning when it’s been used for The Father or just only one meaning for all the gods including The Father.

Jesus said to God: “I will declare your name to my brothers.” (Psalm 22: 22). Jesus is: “the firstborn among many brothers.” (Romans 8:29).

One funny thing is that Anti-Trinitarian doesn’t know that the word “FIRSTBORN” is against them anytime they try to use it, why? If Jesus is the FIRSTBORN, why must Jesus MIGHT BE the firstborn again? Like the verse you alluded to Romans 8:29 “...in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren”, what does it mean when Paul says “...in other he(Jesus) MIGHT BE...”?

Believers are the brothers of Jesus. But we are not the brothers of God. God is our Father.

Give us the meaning of God before I’ll know what to say because you said the Son is God and the believers, here again you said we are not the brothers of God BUT if Jesus is God are we not the brother of God?

Sons of God Jesus only claims to be “the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18).

So how did God beget Jesus?

Indeed, he drew a distinction between God and himself. He said to God: “This is eternal life, that they may know You, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3).

Does this verse address the divinity of Jesus or His humanity?

If it’s His divinity, give us one verse where He was ever called “JESUS CHRIST” before He came to earth and if it is humanity, then you should know that He is talking about the MAN who walks through the earth about 2000years ago.

When they accused him of blasphemy saying: “You, being a man, make yourself God,” Jesus replied: “I said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” (John 10:36). When Peter said to Jesus: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” Jesus confirmed this was a God-given revelation. He replied: “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 16:15-17).

When Jesus first called God His Father in John 17-18 they (Jews) believed that Jesus was making Himself EQUAL with God, then in the same verse you mentioned WHAT DID The Jews DO when Jesus says He is the Son of God? ”Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.” John10:39 because they know that Jesus is claiming DIVINITY.

[size=14pt]This divine affirmation[/size] was repeated during Jesus’ baptism (Matthew 3:17); and on the Mount of Transfiguration. (Matthew 17:5). There can be no higher validation than these.

Do you mean Jesus was DIVINE as a heavenly being like angels or YOUR DIVINE here means MORE THAN THE ANGELS? Please explain!

John says: “If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.” (I John 5:9). Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Does being call the Son means Jesus was created or not? Again define what you understand by Jesus being DIVINE!

Jesus existed “before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24). Then he became a man. (John 1:14). But God does not change. (Malachi 3:6).

Your wrong understanding of the scriptures has led you to pervert Bible.
It is true God cannot change His promise BUT He can appear in HUMAN FORM, true or false?
Did you also let the readers know that Jesus can’t change? because ”Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.” Heb 13:8
If Jesus became man then Jesus isn’t the same, but your shallow mind about scripture has led to this contradiction because Jesus became MAN is what we called ”INCANATED” the word “INCANATE” means “cover with” so when the Bible says Jesus became man it means The pre-existence of DIVINE Jesus was Covered WITH FLESH or TAKING UP HUMANITY, that’s why Jesus is both God and Man.

Jesus is a man. (John 8:40).

Yet you said Jesus is DIVINE, can man be divine?

But God is not a man (Numbers 23:19).

“...that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?”

The full verse in quotation, now let’s see whether this verse prove TRINITY wrong or affirm it.
^Did Jesus ever lie? No!
^Did Jesus as a Son of man ever repent? No!
^Has Jesus said anything and didn’t do it? No!
^Has Jesus spoken and it’s not fulfilled? No!

So if all these are TRUE about JESUS then Jesus is GOD because ONLY GOD has the ability to answer YES to all of these.

Rilwayne001:
"Stiffnecked Gainsayer" that is your name

Liars! after I've exposed your ignorant about the scriptures this is what you can come with.

SMH

udatso:
All am saying is that go to to that thread and convince your christian friends. When you have successfully defeated them, you can then try spreading your truth that has set you free.

Then why can't you first convince your brother Boko Haram, Taliban e.t.c before you can advice me?

Rilwayne001:
Because you choose to remain deluded … because truth is bitter to you … because you could'nt address my question in MArk

I've answered you but because you're confused you couldn't fathom my answer.

Both Deuteronomy and Mark address Yahweh's Unity not His nature.

So the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD . [Genesis 18:22]

But remember it was The Lord who appeared and Abraham SAW THREE MEN AND WORSHIPPED THEM

It is said that "the men" turned from there and go towards Sodom, but the Lord stayed before Abraham, and enters into dialogue with him following this verse (the Lord doesn't leave until verse 33).

And this same TWO MEN were WORSHIPPED just the way ABRAHAM WORSHIPPED THEM.

AN open-minded reader can see that you never say anything about how these MEN were WORSHIPPED because you know that both Qur'an and Bible forbidden worship of CREATURE.

In the very next chapter, the men arrive at Sodom, and are not only numbered at two, but are identified as angels (Gen 19:1).

That's I'm giving you definition of ANGEL which it never stick to your brain.
Once again Angel simply means MESSENGER and it can also be used for the HEAVENLY BEING WHO WAS CREATED TO CONVEY GOD'S MESSAGE TO MAN.

The first man, whom Abraham had addressed at the start of chapter 18, is referred to later explicitly as the Lord , but is never referred to as an angel like the other two were.

That means my previous post is just a waste of time and energy on you.

I brought it out verse by verse how these three Men were addressed as one.

In vr 9 we read "And THEY said unto him..."
whereas in the next verse the THEY WAS CHANGE to HE.

Reading this plainly, we have to come to a different conclusion than those who stop at the first few verses of Genesis 18: the three men were not the three Persons in the Trinity, but the Lord accompanied by two angel, now this other two were sent by the LORD to Sodom, for they claim so in Gen 19:13 YAHWEH SENT US

Who says they are three persons in the Trinity? what I'm making plain for people here is that YAHWEH exists more than ONE IN NATURE which Moses knows about before he wrote Deuteronomy.

Again you insist they are just Angel, when Abraham worshipped them we might say it's because they accompanied Lord BUT Lot ALSO WORSHIPPED them and they were still called LORD TOO, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY about this?

He has provided a link for you please go and tell them the truth lies you are carrying about claiming it will set them free into bondage

I will go but always remember how confuse you're and the lies you're spreading.