₦airaland Forum

kokolet007: 3. We keep coming to your doors even though we have regular jobs and family like you because we are admonished to do so by Jesus Christ.

I'm only interested in this no.3 by asking this question.

@underlined part; if Jesus Christ is the one given you people command to do so, why your organization was called JEHOVAH witness and not JESUS Christ witness?

Please back up your reply with scripture(s).

Olusanya333: Now i see you lack the Spirit of God.

Really?

Have u ever ask urself why u go to church on sunday's nd all christains do the same?Because Satan change the Law and times Daniel 7:25. Pray for the Spirit of God.

Not only that Satan change the law and time he has even brainwashed some people to the essence that they can reason outside the box.

Jesus said God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth..John 4:24

So sabbath is a sign consummated by Jesus Christ and what God wants from you is your worship in spirit and truth.

Olusanya333: As i said to others i say to u also "Mine is to let u know not to force u to agree".PEACE

I say to you also that you don't know what SABBATH signifies.

See above for that.

Shalom!

Let me widen your knowledge about THE SABBATH.

Sabbath Observance:
Old Testament Precedence

God had commanded the Israelites to observe a Sabbath day, to make the seventh day one of rest where they abstained from labor. This command made it even into the Ten Commandments, as the fourth one (cf.
Exod 20 : 8 ). God based this model of rest on the fact that he too had stopped his work of creation on the seventh day since it had been
completed:
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation." Genesis 2:1-3

"You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’" Exodus 31:13-17

Here we can see that SABBATH is a SIGN.

Consummation in the New Testament

Israel’s Sabbath observance, which was modeled after God’s own Sabbath, was intended to point to a greater spiritual rest. Just as God had rested from his work of creation and entered into an eternal Sabbath, a day which continues for all eternity, believers are to rest from trying to merit their righteousness through observing the Law and trust in Christ’s perfect righteousness. Once a believer truly trusts in the Lord Jesus he enters into God’s own Sabbath whereby he no longer has to merit his justification since he has been given the promise of eternal life:

See how the author of Hebrew book put it.

"Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For the Gospel came to us just as to them , but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, ‘As I swore in my wrath, "They shall not enter my rest,"’ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: ‘And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.’ And again in
this passage he said, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’ Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the Gospel failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, ‘Today,’ saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, ‘Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden
your hearts.’ For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever HAS ENTERED GOD'S REST has also rested from his works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience." Hebrews 4:1-11

Here you can understand the SIGN that was spoken about in the OT.

Again, since the reality has come:
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a
Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ ." Colossians 2:16-17

The sign of Sabbath is one of the thing Christ came to fulfilled or consummated
As Christ himself taught:
"And he said to them, ‘The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.’" Mark 2:27-28

Why would anyone want to return to
the copy or shadow of things?

Hope this will help

Olusanya333: "Think not that I have come to abolish the Law but to fulfil them" nd with ur quote "Christ is the end of the Law" it will appear it contradict but No u misinterprete.

I'm not talking about contradiction here but your understanding about the sentence.

There is Law of Moses nd d Law of God i.e Ten commandment.

Nothing like Law of MOSES all Laws belong to God but they have specific purpose.

The Law of Moses contains regulations for worship,feast,sacrifice nd sm others also u read Leviticus to understand dis.The Law of Moses(law of sin and death) Jesus nailed to the cross and d curtain of d Temple torn into two dat Christ goeth in into d Holy of holies where d Ten commandment is Laid to give us power dat we in d Spirit might be subject to the Law of God i.e d ten commandment.

Understand you but each law has his own purpose of giving it.

1 john 5:1-3. Now i know yee acted in ignorance but now thou knoweth because on d day of Judgement Christ will ask thee.Do u do my Fathers will(d ten commandments)Then thou will says Do i not prophesy nd teach in ur name,do i not cast out demons in ur name?But He shall say Depart yee evil workers.

Hmmmm Ten commandments is God's will new dimension.

Now I say Repent and Follow the Truth.Keep God commandment and Fear him.

When you don't even know what you're saying.

Rilwayne001: I WONDER WHY YOU DIDNT ADDRESS THOSE TRANSLITERATION I PROVIDED IN BOTH CASES (SALAT & SALLE)

After I've exposed your little knowledge about Arabic you said I didn't address your translation.

The question is which word those translations rendered as blessing or honour?

Which you said is SALLEE and I go further to let you know that both SALAT AND SALLEE mean the same thing been derived from the same ROOT word WASALA.

Very pathetic!

THE FACT THAT SALAT WAS NOT USED IN THE VERSE, THE FACT THAT SALLEE WAS NOT USED IN PLACE OF PRAY IN THE QURAN (BETTER STILL PROVIDE IT FOR US) SHOWS THAT THE TWO WORDS ARE DISTINCT....

Your problem is the inability to comprehend simple English just as it's difficult for Allah to express Itself in simple English.

1) You keep clamouring that the word SALAT was not used YET in Muhsin Khan's Translation the word SALAT appeared, did you ask why Muhsin Khan used SALAT in his translation? which I further explained by letting you know that both SALAT & SALLEE can interchangeably use because they came from the same ROOT word WASALA.

2) For saying the two words are distinct shows again how you lack Arabic knowledge.

3) What is the meaning of SALLEE?

BROTHER....HAVE A NICE DAY.

You too

AFTER WASTING MY MB,AND MY PRECIOUS TIME REPLYING YOUR SILLY CLAIM...YOU PREFER TO BE LYING BY IGNORING MOST OF MY POSTS.
I AM DONE ENGAGING IN A FUTILE ARGUMENT WITH YOU..

I didn't ignore your post in the first place and I don't need to reply all your post when I've already seen the lapses of your post ~~~F9 in Arabic language ~~~ so all I could do is to help you by bring out your error.

Runing away as usual!

Stop deceiving yourself and being ignorance of your own faith SALAT & SALLEE are the same thing.

In case you're reading my post from underground see the surah where SALLEE was used for prayer "And the angels called to him as he stood praying (yusallee) in the sanctuary: Allah giveth thee glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from Allah, lordly, chaste, a prophet of the righteous. S. 3:39 Pickthall

So can you see where your problem lies?

Lastly can you be able to decipher between PRIMER & PALMER now?

SMH seriously for you.

I'm so glad that you finally exposed your ignorance on YOUR OWN BELIEF.

Just read this before you disappear sha.....

Rilwayne001: before then let me expose your mentors lie here...

Let's see who is lying or ignorant about his own scripture.

The fact that you are trying to cover the lies and deception of Sam shamoun here shows how perverted you are....

Really! OK let's see.

therefore, i now count you to be a liar and a deceptor, evangelising xtianity by lieing about other people faith.

So if I now point out your own loop holes what will you call yourself?

the fact that you yourself never went through the topic before you just copy and then paste it yourself,

Let's see who didn't read the article properly by being blindfolded through false teaching.

after when i showed you that the primer translation is nowhere to be found and i quote all available and accepted tranlation to counter your claim,

First Error: Your first mistake is @color part and this shows that you didn't read the article properly.

You can go back to the OP or Sam Shamoun's article and see whether the word PRIMER is there. The translation is called PALMER translated by Edward Henry Palmer.

Can you see your problem here?

you still went ahead and say Sam Shamoun is not biased, Infact for using the word bias makes you also a great lier..SMH

Is Sam biased now or what?
Remember I also say he(Sam) exposed the BIAS part of the other translations who rendered the word SALAT as blessing, honour e.t.c

The problem you are having here is that you thought the word SALAt was used in the verse, unfortunately for you it was not SALAT that was used ..

Unfortunate for you, you couldn't ask yourself WHY people like Muhsin Khan rendered the word SALAT as blessing despite the fact that it appears BOLDLY in the text and what is the word SALAT doing in Muhsin Khan translation if the word was not used?

This shows that you argue blindly.

here is the transliteration and you must point to me the word SALAT there....
SALLEE
Muhsin Khan
He it is Who sends Salat (His blessings)
NOTE: SALLEE is singular
SALLOOONA
Muhsin Khan
Allah sends His Salat (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.)
NOTE: SALLOONA is plural

Waooooo this is the sweetest part of your post because you simply analysed at all without much stress for me.
Since you've analysed it this way no need for me to do it again than to expose your own ignorance about how much you know Arabic and Qur'an, The words YUSALLOON or SALLOO or YUSALEE or SALAT are all derived from the root word WASALA,

That is why the word SALAT or SALLEE or SALLOO can interchangeably be used.

Can you see it now?

Now please answer me do you agree with me that Sam Shamoun was trying to deceive us here or not

Do you agree that people like Y. Ali, Picthall, Sahih are deceiving Muslims for rendered this verse as blessing, honour e.t.c and Sam is innocent for exposing this lie?

Salat (ṣalāh) is an Arabic word whose basic meaning is "bowing, homage, worship, prayer". In its English usage..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salat

So give us the meaning of WASALA?

Can you now see the difference or cant you see?

Can you now see they are the same or can't you see?

Now was Sam shamoun trying to deceive us here or not?

Now were you been deceived by those translations or not?

Does SALAT and SOLLEE looks alike

Please give the meaning of SALLEE as you do to SALAT so that we can see who is lying

who is trying to cover up this obvious problem if your mentor the deceiver called Sam Shamoun? Are you still going to cover him up or not?

Answer these questions yourself.

damilarelr: Not that He has forgotten His words, just that He loves reminders. A suitable example is the case of the Israelites that were almost forgotten in Egypt, God remembered the covenant He had with their fathers when He heard their groanings..

So who pray to God before He remember His promise?

Where you miss it is from the angle you took the definition of prayer from whereas prayer simply means Communication with God (for Christian). You'll agree with me that you don't communicate/talk to your biological father just because you need something from him. So likewise God, you communicate with Him always that's why the Bible says pray without ceasing but this might not entail shouting.

@OP
Let me start with you with this simple question, what does the Bible mean when it says for Christ is the end of the Law?

tintingz: This will be my last post here in this thread.

Then why did you reply?

The word "Iqra"means to read, recite, rehearse on.

Kk

The first word Gabriel said to Muhammed(sa) was read/recite because he was unlettered. This is a miracle.

This is for another day

I didn't insert the 'read' myself the sura started with iqra.

Ok

The Quran is the word of Allah(swt) not Muhammed(sa)

See how you failed I'm only reiterate what you said about Muhammad be the one who wrote Qur'an we have today with his own hand.

Do you read Arabic Quran?
The word 'say' is 'qul' in Arabic which started in sura Ikhlas.
See the image above ^^

The problem here is that the surah in the image wasn't the one I quoted from beginning you jump into this and bend it. Go back to my first post and see the surah REMEMBER I said in my previous post that SAY or qul is not common in Qur'an stop forming ITK

Again the bible was written by historians how else do you want it to be written?
My post above answer this.
again your bible was written by historians.

So even the Torah of Moses we have today wasn't written by him and it's an historian work too. SMH

The Roman speech I gave was to show how a messenger present his message since you can't comprehend a statement from an originator and a messenger.

Again the messenger always uses a third person pronouns with a clear distinction like "Ceazer said..." in Bible "And God said..." to let the audience or readers be able to differentiate between the messenger's word and the sender BUT THE SURAH in the OP don't have this.

So? Where is the confusion here?
We can see God clearing Moses(as) doubt about whose voice was calling from the fire "Behold it is I, God"

I know you won't see it.
Thank Allah you agree that it's Allah who actually called from the fire so Allah is the one who is praising Itself by saying "Blessed is he who is in the fire.....Glory be to God" here this suppose to be direct Allah's word YET Allah is using third person pronouns "He" according to you with Roman example, was Allah also sent as messenger for using this pronouns?

The Moses(as) verse you quoted( Quran 27) is very clear that God was the one talking to Moses. Where is the confusion?

The confusion is Allah that is not a messenger still speaking in third person pronouns, praising itself and referring to another God by saying 'Glory be to God'. Which God again when the God itself is talking?

In the case of Samuel message to Saul we can see him saying exact what God said.

You need to go back to secondary sorry for that bro because I don't know how you did it.

You see the statement of Samuel begins with "Thus saith the Lord of host..." and Samuel uses appropriate pronouns which is personal pronouns. Samuel statement will only be grammatically wrong if Samuel begins to use third person pronouns after he's about to quote someone else i.e He or Him or Us

Lol, I didn't insert any say to any verse I quoted from the Quran.

But not the one we are dealing with in the OP.

@Rilwayne001,

SAMPLE 2

“indeed, the Qur’an is a word a NOBLE messenger. possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure .Obeyed there and trustworthy. And your companion is not mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

Now let's look at this surah and compare it with the translator's insertion.

If pay close attention to statement of this surah you've discovered that there's a grammatical conflict within the text.

1) The first sentence portray it as Quran is a messenger with the phrase "....is a word a NOBLE messenger" no clear distinction that's why the translator has to insert "[CONVEYED BY]" to bring out the meaning.

2) This phrase "possessed of power and with the owner of the throne" doesn't match each other and never compliment the previous statement that's why the translator has to inserted [Who is] which now placed Muhammad as the subject.
With the owner of the throne simply means it exist/stand along the whoever own the throne yet was Muhammad fits into that position?

3) The word 'secure' rendered the insertion word that made muhammad the subject useless because the translator gets confused so s/he inserted "[in position]"
Does Muhammad secure in position with Allah?

4) This next one is more perplexing, remember the translator has already placed Muhammad as the subject but see what this phrase says "Obeyed there [in the heavens]"

Can you see how insertion killed these verses.
Yet the original text doesn't favour either.

Who is being obeyed here in heaven Muhammad or Qur'an?

This is enough for you to digest.

Rilwayne001: This will not move forward when you keep on dodging my explanations.

Your explanation is out of point that's why I didn't reply them.

What this thread is all about is the usage of plural pronouns, first person pronouns by the narrator within the same text, the poor wording arrangement of Qur'an and misplacing simple word.

I will reply as soon as am with my computer later on tonight..

Even all your post never makes any different than Internet congestion.

RRilwayne001: First of all, we all know Jesus never teaches Trinity, neither was it taught by Moses and other Propehts in The OT,

The issue at hand is not who teaches TRINITY or not BUT I only tell you what the Hebrew scriptures say.

now if we to follow your assertion here "Are you saying Yahweh was talking to his Word Are you saying Yahweh was talking to his spirit The verse states that LET US CREATE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE Mr. Emusan Please can you say to your word and spirit that 'EMUSAN LET US PAINT A PORTRAIT'

What you're bringing out here absolutely out it because we're not dealing with Trinity here. It left for you to decide BUT the TRUTH of the matter is Yahweh is multi personal and He uses plural pronouns to address His Godhead many time even Jesus did.

You can't compare this with Allah that supposes to be one entity yet always referring to Itself with plural pronouns.

It's left for you to tell me why Allah always use pronouns like 'I', 'me', Us', 'We', 'Him', 'He' e.t.c when It's not multi personal

And i asked you a question which you actually duldge, i said was the writer present when YAhweh was talking

You think I duldge your question but I didn't because I believe my explanation covers everything.

The writer wasn't present with Yahweh but the writer clearly distinguished his own word from Yahweh's word like in that Genesis 1:26 the first sentence is "And God said...." which shows that another person has entered the scene..in that case Yahweh has took over by saying "Let US...." the US wasn't including the writer.

Please this is simple English I won't repeat myself any more.

Please who is the Narrator? Was he present when God was saying all this word

Moses! He wasn't.
Get knowledge the writer has already excluded himself from the plural pronouns with the phrase "And God said..."

This phrase "And God said" or "Thus saith the Lord" or The Word of the Lord came to me, saying" are very rear/no where to be found in the Qur'an despite that Qur'an was narrated through a SECOND PERSON.

Rilwayne001: The Quran is clear in Arabic much more than the way it is in English since it was revealed in Arabic...thats my point..

If Qur'an is cleared in Arabic, does it mean it can be cleared in English?
Shouldn't the English translation suppose to be the exert Arabic words?

I showed you times in my post on this thread that The Quran is Allah's word which was conveyed to the prophet through Angel Jibril, and i said there is no way you will be conveying a message of your boss to a third party without you adding your own word to it, Angel jibril is just like a teacher teaching the prophet the word of God, Therefore both God and The angels word appeared in it (The angel acting like a teacher and Allah revealing himself in some part.

Qur'an is Allah's word yet you said it contains Jibril & Allah word at underlined statements.

I dont know if you get the point in the above verse.....It clearly stated here

Nothing clears brother.

The Quran is 100% Allah's word

Yet it contains Jibril's word according to you.

because i have already showed you the rank of Angel Gabriel,

So because of its rank that's why it recites confusion or used personal pronouns where It supposed to use it for Allah.

I showed you where the prophet affirm that he (jibril) is a guardian to him,

I can see where you missed this thread.
We aren't talking about who guides or providing guidance to Qur'an, we're talking about poor usage of simple pronouns where the types of pronouns are being used by the narrator.

also the prophet said Jubril is a teacher who taught him the word of God and the Quran was written according to how Jibril was conveying it to him...What else do you want?

What I want is you should grade Allah for Its wording arrangements & killing simple pronouns.

“indeed, the Qur’an is a word a NOBLE messenger. possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure .Obeyed there and trustworthy. And your companion is not mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takeover: 81:19-23]
Is it meaningless like this'

I'll use this surah as my sample 2.

Every single word of the bible is the word of Yahweh himself right?

Not every word in the Bible is the Word of God BUT every single word was written as God want it. You can differentiate when God is talking and when the writer is talking.

We have some case where the writer(s) use their own initiative i.e some historical event

Atleast the Holy spirit was working for Yahweh to guide the writer right? which indirectly make yahweh responsible for every word in the bible.. True or False

You're right that's why Christian believed that Bible is the word of God THOUGH not that Yahweh dictate all mouth to mouth BUT everything was written as He wants.

For instance, Yahweh corrected some Jeremiah's wrong view of previous revelation,
corrected Job about creation e.t.c BUT THEY WERE CARRIED ALONG BY HOLYSPIRIT that's why they're talking about one subject SALVATION in one man WHO is Jesus.

Rilwayne001: This particular post/question is a deception and a lie which the owner of this article tries to insert into the Quran, Ever since i have reading the Quran i have never come accross this so called Palmer translation. To expose the lie of Sam Shamoun here i noticed that in other question in the OP He uses other translations such as Shaki and Packtall but when it comes to This particular Question why didnt he Use Picthalll or Sahih

He didnt use it because he wanted to deceive the reader into believing that Allah prayed to someone. Do you Agrree that Sam shamoun is trying to deceive us here or not? Please answer this question or i wont continue this dialogue

Muhsin Khan
He it is Who sends Salat (His blessings) on you, and His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive you), that He may bring you out from darkness (of disbelief and polytheism) into light (of Belief and Islamic Monotheism). And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers.

Muhsin Khan
Allah sends His Salat (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salat on (ask Allah to bless) him (Muhammad SAW), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting (salutation i.e. AsSalamu 'Alaikum).

Who is more unjust than one who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Signs?
Now please answer the question i asked up there...Good night

Truly if one reads this translation and compare it with other translations one can say Sam Shamoun is being biased with his articles BUT does he being biased?
Absolutely No!
because Sam has dealt with the bias part of other translations like Y. Ali, Picthall e.t.c in translating the word SALAT as blessing in one article.

I'm still searching for the article once I get it I'll provide you the link to tell you that Sam never deceives his reader.

I purposely left only Mushin Khan's translation because it gives more evidence to Sam claim with the word SALAT that appears.

To you what is the meaning of SALAT?

This is how you will know that people like Yusuf Ali, Sahih try to cover up this obvious problem by rendering the word SALAT as Blessing not as Prayer.

tintingz: Who's behaving like one.

You know.

The word "iqra" means to read or recite this is the first word he said to the Prophet(sa).

Which one actually or did jibril say read and recite at the same time?

{Read: In the name of the Lord Who creates, Creates man from a clot. Read: And thy Lord is the Most Bounteous, Who teaches by the pen, Teaches man that which he knew not. }(Al ahlaq : 96)

You know the read in front was inserted by you.
Is it every time Jiril come to Muhammad that It always says 'Read' or the first time of revelation?
What material jibril bring for Muhammad to read from?

You should know that Muhammed(sa) was writing down exact what Gabriel revealed to him from Allah(swt), he was unlettered before the angel appeared to him.

This is pure lie from the planet nearest to the throne of Allah where Muhammad thought Sun always worships before appears in the morning.

Muhammad is the one who wrote Qur'an with his own land.

You have even make it clearer by including "qul" which means "say".

You didn't see the reason I mentioned this word but quickly use it to altered Allah's word.

Say: Do ye then take (for worship) protectors other than Him, such as have no power either for good or for harm to themselves?" [Quran 1quote
Say: He, Allah, is One. Allah is He on Whom all depend. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And none is like Him. [Quran 112:1-4]

You can see what I'm saying now you've inserted the word "SAY" in front of those verses which weren't appeared in the original manuscript.

Angel Gabriel was like a teacher to Muhammed(sa)

I see like teacher like student.

This how all ancient text were written.

I'm sorry Bible was not written that way.
There's always a demarcation between the SUBJECT and the OBJECT, SPEAKER and whom was been addressed or speak on his behalf.

Yes, this is how a messenger present his message.

Why the same angel Gabriel didn't use the same style in Bible?

This is a recitation message from Allah given to Jibril to deliver it to Muhammad (sa) and mankind.

If it was so;
Here Jibril stands as an intermediary or Narrator which It supposed to be speaking in Third person SINGULAR pronouns for Allah or putting 'say' (like Bible always distinguished the speaker's statement from that of God i.e "The Lord said or God said"

The Quran is unique in words and message.

Unique indeed! When there are a lot of conflicting words inside.

How is the Quran confusing? I have given you an example of a roman speaker.

Was angel jibril copying the style expression of Roman when Qur'an supposed to be uncreated word of Allah?

See how it's confusing and fail the inspired written of God.
See the encountered of Moses with Allah
So, when he(Moses) came to it, he(Moses) was called: 'Blessed is he who is in the fire, and he who is about it. Glory be to God, the
Lord of all Being! Moses, behold, it is I, God, the All-mighty, the All-wise. Surah 27:7-14

Here the writer/narrator has said that "Moses was called..." which means Allah supposes to begin Its statement BUT see what Allah started with "Blessed is HE who is in the fire.....LATER ....Glory be to God" After this we see Allah saying "Moses, behold it is I, God..."

You can see that the person who called Moses is the one praising the one in the fire and even referred to being in the fire as a deity then later identified itself as Allah.
What a confusion.

The bible was written by historian.
...but let read from Samuel speech as an example.

1Samuel 15
Samuel also said to Saul, "The LORD sent me to anoint you king over His people, over Israel. Now
therefore, heed the voice of the words of the
LORD. Thus says the LORD of hosts: 'I will
punish Amalek for what he did to Israel, how he
ambushed him on the way when he came up from
Egypt. Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly
destroy all that they have, and do not spare
them. But kill both man and woman, infant and
nursing child, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.'
We can see Samuel here presenting Jehovah's word/message to Saul.

Thank God that you strongly agree with me that the writer of Bible always differentiate the writer's word for being interjected with God's own with phrase "Thus saith the Lord of host....." compared this with that of Moses.

Note: ancient texts is different from modern text.

I know and Quran it's not the first ancient book.

That's why we have different translations of the holy books.

Yes! But no translation has able to clarify all these instead they keep corrupting the original text in other to cover up, like you did by inserting SAY in front of those surah.

@Rilwayne001

SAMPLE 1

Analysis of Moses encountered with Allah.

I'll insert my word in bracket.

So, when he(Moses) came to it, he(Moses) was called 'Blessed is he who is in the fire, and he who is about it. Glory be to God, the Lord of all Being! Moses, behold, it is I, God, the All-mighty, the All-wise.

From this surah many problems arise:
1) The underlined statement was already indicated that Moses was called by someone.
Then if Moses was called, who called Moses?

2) We see the narrator trying to made us know that another person is now talking which suppose to be Allah inside the burning bush.

3) The person who called Moses firstly praised him/herself with the statement "Blessed is he who is in the fire...."
NOTE: the HE in this phrase suppose to be referring to Allah BUT the question we must ask here is who is talking when the underlined statement "....who is in the fire" already made it clear that it's Allah that is actually in the fire?

4) The narrator still goes on to say "Glory be to GOD" remember after Moses was called by the one who is in the fire who supposedly to be Allah is when the conversation begins.

5) To tell you that this is purely wrong linguistic composition the narrator/writer finally identified Allah as the SPEAKER by this statement "Moses, behold it is I, God

Doesn't the same God first says "Blessed is he.......or....Glory be to God"? whose God Blessed or Glory be to?
Could it be Allah who later identified Itself as God again or angel Jibril who is narrating the story?

Definitely it could not be Jibril because MOSES was already called by the one in the fire.

So it is Allah who is praising Itself or another God.

Sample 2 is coming!

Next time don't quote your OWN post when you need a reply.

Rilwayne001: ANd before i start replying the OP...Please answer this questions

I will sir.

First of all, who was the one talking here, God or the writer of Genesis?, Is the writer present when God was Doing all this talkings?
And can you please expatiate about US and OUR in the passage?

Firstly, Gen 1:26-27 you quoted above pose no problem for Christian because The Father was talking to the Son and the Holy Sprit. This indicate how a Holy book full of wisdom should be arranged. So this should tell you that Yahweh is a Trinity right from the Genesis.

Secondly, see the way the writer concisely arranged his word by differentiating when God is talking in PLURALITY without shifting in grammatical expression this is how a knowledgeable God directs His writing not like that of QUR'AN

Lastly, the opening words in that verse is "And God said.." which implies that the narrator or the speaker has stopped talking only interjecting God's own word which is very clear.

NOTE: Some linguistics Quranic problem can still be overlooked if this Arabic word "qul" which means "say" inserted at the beginning of those verses but nothing like that.

What most English translators usually do is to insert this word "say" to make it looks as if the statement is actually from Allah that Jibril is just a narrator.

27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
Also who was talking here?, the person must have been present there..

You're mistaken, the speaker or Narrator has already indicated who was talking by the phrase "So God.....in the image of GOD.... the narrator didn't say "I" "me" or using a plural pronouns 'We or Us' (which will indicate that the speaker is part of people who partakes in the creation of man like angel Jibril always does.


I challenge you to produce a clear verse like this in the Qur'an where the word of the speaker or narrator was well arranged without conflicting Allah's word or makes the speaker looks like many people were talking THIS MUST NOT include translator's insertion.


I believe this answer other post of yours.

From everything you put up there about jibril are we to conclude that Angel Jibril is the same as Allah or because of its rank and character that gave It the audacity to be using PERSONAL pronouns in delivering the message when 'I' 'me' are to be reference to Allah?

Or the poor arrangement of words to differentiate the Narrator from the speaker which suppose to be Allah.

I'll juxtapose more about the story of Moses to have the clue of what I'm talking about.

Rilwayne001: One thing i want you to note is that the Quran was not revealed in english it was only tranlated to wnglish language, and we cannot grasp the original message in other language like the one it was revealed..

Does it mean we can't express ourselves in Arabic clearly the way we express ourselves in English.

First of all, you have provide the muslim scholars who agreed that HIM and HIS is a royal pronouns...
Please provide prove for this.

I don't need to provide anything even you yourself must agree because the reason they claimed royal pronouns for We, Us or Our is to guide against MANY GODHEAD in the Qur'an BUT IF YOU disagree then tell us why Allah is using plural PERSONAL pronouns when Allah is one.

The prophet's word does not appear in the Quran, but that of the Angel appeared in it because i wonder how the person through whom the message is conveyed will not appear in it, since it is not that a book was just given to him.

So you agree that Qur'an is not 100% Allah's Allah's word.
Then Jibril is also another Allah for using PERSONAL AND PLURAL FIRST person pronouns.

“[That] indeed, the Qur’an is a word [conveyed by] a NOBLE messenger. [Who is] possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure [in position].Obeyed there [in the heavens] and trustworthy. And your companion is not [at all] mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

See how those inserted words beautify this sura.
If you remove all the inserted words you yourself know what will happen to the rest of the statement....MEANINGLESS!

Is the bible word of Yahweh or of those 40+ men that wrote it?

The Bible is the word of Yahweh whom He used those 40+ men to convey to the rest of the world.
Remember Christian didn't claim Yahweh recites or dictate all the words in the Bible rather Yahweh uses His Holy Spirit to guide each one BUT as the writers were puting down their work they chose the style.

please answer my questions too before we move further..

I've answered sir.

tintingz: stop behaving like one

Then continue to live like one.

Yes

Then see your next statements.

The first word Angel Gabriel said to Muhammed(sa) was "Read", Gabriel was presenting the exact word Allah said.

READ OR RECITE?
If Jibril says 'read' according to you it different from saying 'SAY' which means it's its speech to another AND NO WHERE DOES THE WORD 'SAY' OR QUL in Arabic occurred original manuscript.

If you have watch roman movies you will see how the emperor messenger will present his message to the crowd,

This then prove that Qur'an contains human elements copy from another language style.

"Ceazer said you should all pay your taxes, He will punish anyone who fails to pay his/her tax. I'm your lord here and I've spoken, the leader the great."

How many ancient Arab historian use this type of style in their writing?
Why citing example from Roman and not Arabic counterpart to show us that, that is the normal system of communication familiar with at that time?

The messenger here is presenting the emperor message, and the 'he' 'I'm' 'the great' is referring to one person the ceazer.

This is where the problem lies in your example one can see clearly at the beginning of the speaker's statement that the speakers is speaking ON BEHALF of someone with opening word "CEAZER SAID...." BUT this type of expression rear in the Qur'an ESPECIALLY THE SURA that leads to this long post.

Gabriel is not another Allah, he's an angel of Allah.

But Qur'an says so due to the lack of simple WORD arrangement from illetrate speaker(s) and receiver.

The Quran was in an ancient Arabic text and if you can't understand that you know nothing.

Then how many ancient Arabic literature(s) were written like Qur'an?

Go read ancient literatures Mister.

Yes I've read some but the SPEAKER(S) always delivered their message in a clear understandable way NOT in a confuse way like Qur'an which one can't defrenciate between the speaker and on behalf of the one who was spoken about.

You can read your bible like the king James version.

Why Angel Gabriel didn't use this type of style in the Bible at least we've place where Gabriel spoke to people?

Please kindly give example like the sura in above EVEN from first edition of KJV.

To understand some words or letters in the Quran read the Arabic Quran.

This is the reason you can't spot these poor expressions because you're reading from language you can't fully comprehend.

Does it mean that someone can't express h/her self in Arabic clearly the way we do with English?

Rilwayne001: Insha Allah bi kudratillah

I will reply everything in the OP tommorrow..

please bear with me..

Please kindly do me this favour before we proceed.

Do you believed that 'WE, HIM, HIS, OUR, US' as agreed by many Muslim scholars to be a royal plural pronouns and third person pronouns used for Allah?

NOTE: They did this in other to explain away the plurality of many Allah(Gods) in Qur'an.

Does Muhammad or Angel Gabriel word appear in the Qur'an?

tintingz: Olodo

Let's see who is Olodo

The 'He' 'His" is still referring to Allah.

So if the 'He' 'His' are referring to Allah, it means it's Angel Jibril that is speaking and using third person pronouns in reference to Allah.

So who is the person that the personal pronouns 'I' 'Me' referring to?
Could it be Angel Gabriel again?

This is how Angel Gabriel deliver Allah's message to Muhammed(sa) and more also the original text of the Quran is Arabic.

Then Angel Gabriel is another Allah for using a personal pronouns.

Are you telling me that in Arabic one can't distinguish between first, second or third person pronouns?

Majority of Muslim scholars have notice this that's why they'll tell you that the best language to recite Qur'an is Arabic because all these inappropriate sentence construction can't be noticed in Arabic.

Rilwayne001: Through whom was the Quran revealed?

Through angel jibril
But also have it in mind that QURAN WAS PURELY ALLAH'S WORD which means it doesn't contain any human or angel word.


Like the surah you quoted above you can see where a PERSONAL pronouns like I,me was used which make it difficult to attribute it to Muhammad or angel Jibril AND where a THIRD person pronouns was used.

Join that thread so that I won't derail this one.

Rilwayne001: This is an off topic post

My apology.
Then join this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1859103/quran-linguistic-miracle-problem

First of all i want you to refer back to the incident that occur in verse 12, to i want you to tell us what actually happened there?

You've said it all in the OP Allah only revealed the revelation that favour Muhammad.
Yet I still couldn't understand why the book that eternally exits with Allah before creation contains those historical verses.

And i want you to tell us (according to Muslim)
Who revealed the Qur'an?

According to Muslims Allah revealed the Qur'an.

Through whom was the Qur'an revealed?

Angel Jibril
The problem with this is shifting in one pronouns to another and reference to external person/being within the same verse.

If you check the thread I provided above you will see more than this.

In what language was the Quran revealed

In pure Arabic YET MANY NON-Arabic words still appeared even in the original manuscripts.

Rilwayne001: Surah Al-Anfal, Verse 12: Lo! Thy Sustainer inspired the angels [to convey this His message to the believers]: "I am with you!" [And He commanded the angels:] "And, give firmness unto those who have attained to faith [with these words from Me]: `I shall cast terror into the hearts of those who are bent on denying the truth; strike, then, their necks, [O believers,] and strike off every one of their finger-tips!"(English - Mohd Asad)

Let's look at the construction method of the sentence in the above sura by paying close attention to the COLOR part.

How many angels reveal Qur'an?
because many angels were mentioned in this surah.

Who is talking here?
Could it be Muhammad? I guess not because had it been it's Muhammad the he won't use the phrase ("Thy sustainer" )

Could it be Angel Gabriel (though many angels were mentioned)?
Absolutely not, because No angel can command another angel.

So who is talking?
Allah is the one talking.
But why would Allah be shifting from first person pronouns (I, me) to third person pronouns (His, He)
Why would Allah that suppose to be the one talking still referring to another person (Lo! Thy sustainer...)?

This type of inappropriate sentence construction full the Holy book of Allah.

the same thing problem occurs in the below surah.

Surah 8, Verse 61: But if they incline to peace, incline thou to it as well, and place thy trust in God: verily, He alone is all-hearing, all-knowing!

Here we see the speaker addressing GOD and latter shifted to third person pronouns HE.

For the ignorant,

Who is reading above surah always and couldn't sit down to ask himself simple question about simple English of the Holy Qur'an this question is for you.


What grade will you give Allah for Its English composition if you're an English teacher?

hifaif: I am sorry for the insult, bro. It was not intentional. I respect your beliefs.

No problem sir, you couldn't have insulted me the way I'll being insulting myself in the way of mocking God if I've been an Atheist today.

But my heartfelt appreciation goes to God who revealed Himself to me.

I don't know why God loves me so much for Him to reveal Himself to me because I would have been like you.


Shalom!

hifaif: You didn't verify, you simply swallowed it up with 'the stupidity of an animal' (apologies to George Orwell)

See your life outside!
Now that I told you I've verified their claim you resorted to abuse.

How is it easy for you to swallowed up Big bang story & how can you verify the claim of Big bang?

God is ready to reveal Himself to you only if you can humble yourself so that you may know that what those writers wrote were true.

Abrahamweb: Sir,no offence you said "CLAIMED GOD'S INSPIRATION"

Yes I said so!
Or what do you want me to say?
That I'm there with them when they were written their books or I was the one who inspired them.

If I tell you that God told me something about you/anything it's a claim on my own part and what you can do is to verify.

I wasn't there when any of the writer wrote his own book but I've verified their claim.

If I'm wrong why didn't you believe in Bible?
I guess simply because their claim is a myth to you.

AlfaSeltzer: I think they know that what they read was written by man. You are the one that is claiming otherwise.

So how do you know what you read is true?

I know the Bible is true because the writers claimed God's inspiration for it AND THE SAME GOD HAS revealed Himself to me.

hifaif: If everyone had decided to take the easy way out, we wouldn't have landed on the moon or learnt about meteors.

You or who landed in the moon?
Since people've landed on the moon what impact does it have on human life?

Since you've learnt about the meteors what has man done to prevent meteors falling into Earth?

In fact earth atmosphere was designed to combat meteors is it the work of any man?

People like you quickly attack Christian as if you're the only one who do science. whereas everything you know about science is through internet and the funny part of it is that you've added yourself to those who traveled to the moon. SMH

hifaif: I didn't say the Bible was written by cavemen. Read that particular dialogue again.

Since you want to separate creation account from the rest of the Bible does it mean other books were inspired?

And how did you know that creation story was written by cavemen?

Were you there or you read about it online?