₦airaland Forum

johnydon22:
i have been wondering, why did God send satan and other fallen angels down to earth.. why didnt he just kill him off or send him to one remote galaxy too far away from the milky way galaxy. so he threw satan down at us and started playing bet with the devil over souls is earth the only planet their is

Do you just want to mock God or you're in need of truth?

If you want to mock God, the answer to your question is seek for knowledge.

But if you're here to seek for the truth, then I can give my little contribution.

Kay17:
Faith is the most central element of Christianity and Islam. It forms the basics and epistemological foundation of these religions.

Yes because Christians are dealing with an invisible God just as the writer of Hebrew put it "And without faith it is impossible to please him. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that [size=14pt]he exists[/size] and that he rewards those who seek him." Heb 11:6 RSV

How possible to believe in an invisible God without holding unto to faith?

It is by Faith the revelations of God are accepted by the Patriarchs of the religions: Abraham, Isaac, Moses, Elijah;

It is true that they later accepted the revelations of God through faith BUT God first revealed Himself to them.

and the acceptance of God's spiritual realm separated the physical.

How does it separate it? I need more clarification.

It is by Faith of the believers, that Jesus' death, sacrifice and resurrection are fulfilled.

You're wrong here! Jesus' death, resurrection and sacrificial offering for sin are WHAT believers placed their FAITH of assurance of SALVATION.

It is by Faith the Bible and Quran are believed to be the Word of God.

It is first true BUT can't be applied to the rest of believer's activities.
As I said earlier you must first HAVE FAITH that God exists (if God didn't reveal Himself to you in the first place) because you're about to deal with an INVISIBLE BEING but what most people including some Christians themselves failed to know is that, God doesn't want us to have BLIND FAITH that is just believe in Him without any prove, if you read from Genesis to Revelation you will see that God wants to FELLOWSHIP with US.

How can God fellowship with us without revealing Himself to us? It is impossible.
Jesus said "21 He who has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me; and he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.
22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to him, "Lord, how is it that you will manifest yourself to us, and not to the world?"
23 Jesus answered him, "If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him." John 14:21-23 RSV

As you can see it here, Christian God promised all those who love Him A PERSONAL ENCONTER as it spreads out from OT.

Paul the Christian theorist saw faith as "an assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen." He goes further that "for in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?" and "so we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen, since what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal."

Absolutely correct!

The simple conclusion, faith is a prospective lenses, it turns against against this reality in search of a transcendental reality.

You've confused believers' faith on afterlife promise with that of SEARCH of invisible being.
Mind you Christian do dive more in search of reality but don't search on how universe came to be, the origin of life, why planet earth support life and others don't e.t.c

The transcendental reality is not visible [size=14pt]nor justifiable on earth but in the hearts of the believers.[/size] Hence Faith is just like other epistemological lenses such as rationality is used in the physical reality.

There was a little problem with the bolded part when we consider some points;
1. What is the origin of believing in supernatural being, did man just wake up one day and started building up false reason about supernatural being to create God, or the supernatural being actually revealed himself to people and these people share their encounter experience with their relatives?
I remember when my grandma was sharing her life story with me, she narrated everything she has passed through. I only have two OPTIONS about her story (a) It's either I discard it by concluding that the story is false, but why must I discard her story? Is she telling those story to scare me or deceive me? is she just pouring out her mind for me about what she has gone through in life? Actually, this is what most parent do.
or (b) I took it as her true life experience (which is happening to everyone of us)

2. Why every culture throughout the whole world have one story or the other about supernatural encounter?

The world created by Faith due to its prospective nature might be beautiful but it conflicts with our innermost defence most valuable in our reality -- healthy skepticism.

It will conflict Atheist reality BUT those who have had personal encounter with God know it doesn't conflict anything.

Our innate nature to trust only things of the material reality makes us deny a transcendental reality as a fantasy.

If you never had supernatural encounter you won't believe supernatural do exist...Younguz
You may deny it but the truth is that they do exist.

My question, is Faith beyond our healthy skepticism fantasy?

Faith is the FIRST process to draw near God and in reality God reveals Himself to those who draw near Him.
So FAITH is not beyond your scepticism fantasy BUT a little step you can take to draw yourself nearer to God who is ready to reveal Himself to you so that your knowledge of transcendental reality can be opened.


I'm a fallible man with a limited mind trying to discern the mind of an infallible and unlimited God my post is opened to correction.

In the service of Our Lord Jesus...Come Lord Jesus!

Rilwayne001:
Emusan
Can you now see the reason why you are banned forever from the Islam Section?

Olodo!!! I wasn't banned because I abuse or go against any rules BUT BECAUSE I DIDN'T DENY JESUS BY AGREE THAT MUHAMMAD IS A PROPHET OF ALLAH, ALLAH IS the true GOD e.t.c

You can't do without insulting those who we held in high esteem.

You think I'm insulting but I didn't and I'm saying the truth.

Is Allah not a deceiver?
Did Muhammad not believe people can lie for three reason?
Did Muslims not follow the teaching of Muhammad?

Are you this stwpid

If you can answer my question then I'll know what to say

After all those lies of the bible God

And the same God sent Muhammad

Its high time i stop conversating with you since you lack courtesy
Fvcktard

Then stop lying like Allah and Muhammad on Christian topic

Rilwayne001:
Pele



I'll either create another moniker and aaccept the condition or mail the mod to please allow me to accept it with my moniker, that is if i can't sleep without posting or opening thrreads here,
There are several other sections on Nairaland (about 20sections), why should I be obsessed and hold seun for restricting me of access to just only one.



If you notice me I stop opening thread on this section because of the restriction...

Seun is the owner of Nairaland and he is responsible for his decision. We all know what you guys do whenever you come to the Islamic Section, you visit the section to insult us by calling us names (terrorist, Bh, and all sort of names like that), some of your minions will even come to open thread that are offensive/provocative. If you guys stop at insulting us alone it would have been okay, but you would go ahead insulting those who we held in high esteem, you are not exempted, you do insult the prophet (saw) insult God almighty thinking you are insulting the name Allah. that alone is enough for me to support seun's decision..

Our threads dont make FP again, why? because of you people offensive words But with the restriction, everything is going on smoothly, is'nt it?





Must you comment on the islamic section
There are non-muslims that can comment on the section is'nt it?

mazaj accepted the condition, is he a muslim?
other non-muslim dat accepts the condition are they muslims?
Does dat make tthem a muslim?

It is only when you are obsessed with Islam, when you cant do without talking about islam that you will accept the condition. So why crying fowl all around.

Before you entered the IS you rread the instruction that "islam for muslims, even the mods are muslims"
So are you a muslim?
must you comment there?

If its a must then accept the condition...biko




Why don't you mail seun about it

Don't let that one derail this thread your respond says it all.

Rilwayne001:
“Therefore let us abandon the elementary doctrine of Christ and go on to more maturity, not laying again a foundation of repentance from dead works but of faith toward God” – Hebrew 6:1

This^^ is probably the most brazen attack by Paul on the Christianity taught by Jesus. In this verse, [size=14pt]Paul had the temerity to imply that Jesus' teaching was immature,[/size] while he, Paul was the smart alec to take Christianity to the next level.How right Paul proved to be, for his heretic perversion of Jesus' mission has now become mainstream Christianity.

Even though I have told you time again and again that Paul isn't the writer of Hebrew YET you never yield to it.
@Bold-Let's see whether the writer of Hebrew abuses Jesus of immaturity or you're the one displaying your ignorance.

"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God," Heb 6:1 (NIV)

A good English student can apply h/her knowledge here get what the verse is saying, this is the reason I quote NIV for you

As evident from his harangue quoted above,Paul disparaged Jesus' teaching as “repentance from dead works”. But what were the “dead works” Paul denounced ? His rants in his other epistles provide the answer – “works of law”:

“For all who rely on works of the law are cursed” – Galatians 3:10

“For no human will be justified in his sight by works of the law,since through the law comes knowledge of sin” – Rom 3:20

“For we believe that a man is justified by faith even without works of law” – Romans 3:28

I use to say it since Allah is a deceiver and Muhammad believe nothing wrong with lying then Muslims will never stop lying and the TRUE GOD hate lies.

You intentionally accused the writer talking about "WORKS OF LAW" when the NEXT verse provided details of what verse 1 means.
This is verse 1&2 together
"Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death, and of faith in God,
2. instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment.(NIV)

Here the writer talked about:
1. Instruction about baptisms, who gave this instruction? Jesus! Matt 28:19-20
2. The laying on of hands (Baptisms of the Holy Spirit) even though Jesus didn't say it as laying hands, John 7:38-39
3. The resurrection of the dead, did Jesus teach anything like it? YES! Matthew 22:31-32, Mark 12:25-26, Luke 20:35-38, John 5:21-25.
The four Gospels record Jesus teaching the resurrection of the dead, does the writer accuse Jesus? Not only that Jesus teaches resurrection of the dead but Jesus also demonstrated it by raising people from dead.
4. and eternal judgement, who teaches this? Jesus Christ! John 3:18

The “law” of course being traditional Judaic law which Jesus wholeheartedly supported:

“Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away not an iota,not a dot will change from the law until all is accomplished.Whoever changes one of the least of the commandments, and teaches men so (e.g. Paul), shall be the least in the Kingdom of heaven”– Mathew 5:17-19

“It is easier for heaven and earth to pass away, than for one dot of the law to become void”– Luke 16:17

Do they fulfil law or obey law?

I only show you how you misinform your audience in that book of Hebrew you quoted above NOT to talk about the teaching of Apostle Paul on SALVATION THROUGH FAITH.

Paul never slander Law BUT teaches SALVATION BY FAITH, hope you can see the difference?

Rilwayne001:
I will comment tomao

You will comment because there's no rules that prevent you to like in Islam section.

Yet none of you can raise alarm that seun should allow others to visit Islam section.

How will you feel if you think something is wrong in the OP but for you to click REPLY a form pop up says:
Are you a Christian?
Do you believe Jesus is the Son of God?
Do you believe Jesus died for your sin?
Do you believe Jesus is Lord?

I agree... or No...

Then you click No...and FOREVER you can't reply, quote, or create any thread in this section, how will you feel?

This is what non-Muslims are facing right now in Islam section and you come here with gut to say I WILL COMMENT TOMORROW instead of you to hide yourself somewhere because of INTOLERANCE of Seun.

I comment on a thread yesterday before I know the it was moved to Islam section and you quote my post BUT I COULDN'T reply it because I'm forever BANNED in Islam section SIMPLY because I REJECT Muhammad's claim.

CANTICLES:
in John 16:13 Jesus use " he" to personify it , but Christ himself knows its not a person ..So he states " and i will request .... The Father to give you the spirit of truth...You know it, bcoz it remains with you and is in You" John 14:16,17 Interestingly He uses "it" ,!! Peter explained " he ( Christ ) was exalted to the ryt hand of God and received the promised holyspirit from d Father, (christ) has POURED OUT this wich u see and hear"

How does the jargons you put up answer my question and who is talking about pronoun here?

It seems you don't have answer to my questions.
Here are the questions again;

John 16:13 says "...whatsoever he shall HEAR..."

1) How can a force HEAR?
2) The Spirit will SPEAK whatsoever he HEARS, who is talking to this force according to JWs?

zeemahn:
As you rightly pointed out "with greater intellect ".
Religious people are usually irrational.

As if you and some Atheist folks on Nairaland can withstand some Religious fellow here in times of intelligence.

They keep telling you they have proofs but can't actually prove.

Yet you call yourself a greater intellect, how can you prove miracle?
If miracles can be proved then it's no more a miracle.
That's why miracle is an event that occurs when HUMAN KNOWLEDGE AND POWER fail.

I'm praying in my room suddenly God descend and fellowship with me, how do you want me to prove this a faithless person like you?

Meanwhile, I schooled in France

So it means only people who school in France that are intelligent or what are you insinuating?

MODIFIED
Religious people also avoid this kinda thread religously.

Maybe you just join Nairaland if not you'd have seen that this type of thread has been created time upon time here.

When you see them here they'll bash,insult,and vamoose

Bash insult on you because you're the first Atheist or greater intellect


@OP
I believe you copy this from someone's work which makes you a believer in this ARTICLE anyway this is not where I'm going.

I only want to answer this your two questions

QUESTIONS
1. What faith were you born into (religion)?

Does it matter which religion someone was born into?
A born Atheist has become a Christian and a born Christian has become an Atheist or Muslim.

2. Despite your conviction, how do you know
of a surety that your faith is the right path to
God?

One thing is very constant and stand sure in Christianity that THE CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH reveals and fellowship with His creatures that He created in His image.

This runs through Genesis to Revelation, though Bible says without FAITH we can not please God Heb 11:6 BUT many people have misinterpreted this statement in THINKING that Bible is talking about BLIND FAITH which is totally FALSE because God doesn't just want us to be following BLIND FAITH that's why He makes it clear severally in the Bible that if He will reveal Himself to those who love and do His will.

So the true God still fellowship with those who ready to do His will.


My Question:
We have seen a born Christian turned Atheist and a born Atheist turned Christian, why is it so?


**If you've never had supernatural encountered you won't believe supernatural exist**


I am a fallible and shallow-minded man trying to discern the mind of an infallible God.


Come Lord Jesus!

CANTICLES:
Knockout to all the prophets of Baal ........ Its not uncommon for the scriptures to personify a thing ! Wisdom is said to help God to create the world as stated in prov 8:30,

This shows that you don't know what your organization teaches because JWs agree that Prov 8 support the creation of Jesus as first created being by quoting Prov 8:22. So if you now said Wisdom is personified that negate JWs believe.

Christ Jesus himself personify wisdom again saying it has children?? Is wisdom a person so as to have children ..... Now Lets Dive Into The Deep Things Of God!!! Jesus himself personify the holyspirit by using " he" ... [size=14pt]Did i say personify ?? Yes,[/size] of course infact its high time u let the scripture explains itself on what the holyspirit is , when the scripture say the spirit intercedes in rome 8:26 , its explained, that this was done thru Jesus Christ ( Rom 8: 34) !! When The scripture says the spirit spoke , honestly this is done thru an Angel, or a man ( compare Act 21:3, and Act 21:10,11) .... While revelation 2:7 says the spirit spoke, this was done thru Jesus (rev 1:1) .... So, let the scriptures now give the meaning of holyspirit , Matthew 3:11 " that one will baptize u people with holyspirit and fire" !! Gud, is fire a person??

In fact the rest of your post show that you're confused.

CANTICLES:
So, if fire is not a person ... What makes u absurdly think the holyspirit mentioned is a person !!! "Baptized with" exactly as water ...... SCRIPTURES EXPLAINED : ACT 1:8 "but you will receive power when the holyspirit arrive upon u" ! This scripture shows its d power of God! ...... Luke 1:35 explains d holyspirit as the " POWER of the most High" ! Walla power again ...... Rome 15:13,19 Explains as " May God fill u with ..... The POWER of the holypsirit"power again!!! Luke 4:14 explains "Jesus returned in the power of the spirit" described as power again !!! This helps Jesus to perform many powerful works(Act 2:22) The Father Controls and give out this force to equip us with POWER (LUK 11:13, lik a generator emits current, holyspirit emits from d Father 1the4:8,Act 2:32,33)Apostle Paul examines "for all things i have the strenght by virtue of him (God) who imparts Power to me" phili 4:13,dats why pple can be " Filled with" it Act 2:4,&it can be " poured out"Act 10:45

I once asked a JWs this question he couldn't answer me in fact he didn't know whether such statement appear in Bible and he is a long time JW because he told me he has spent more than 10years as JWs.

John 16:13 "When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, [size=14pt]but whatever he hears he will speak,[/size] and he will declare to you the things that are to come." RSV

The Bolden part is my questions based, if Holy spirit is a God's active FORCE as JWs claim;
1. How can a force HEAR?
2. Who is speaking to this force? Because this force suppose to be generated from God according to JWs.

Had it been that you prove read this your copy and paste work very well you'll have clearly seen this contradiction BUT BECAUSE THE OWNER OF THE ARTICLE KNOWS that Muslims will be carried away by h/her lies s/he cooks this lie AND THE OWNER OF Nairaland Seun Osewa has helped Islam to cover their lies by separating Islam from religion section and PLACED ONLY ISLAMIC OATH there so that non-muslims will not comment or create thread.

But thank God you put this where your lies can be shown on to you.

emmyrabson:
The first thing that one should know and clearly understand about Islam is what the word ‘Islam” itself means. [size=14pt]The Arabic word “Islam” means the submission or surrender of one’s will to the only true God,[/size] known in Arabic as “Allah”. One who
submits his will to God is termed in Arabic a
“Muslim”.

YOUR last statement read:
Thus, Jesus like the prophets before him and the one who came after him, taught the religion of [size=14pt]Islam: submission to the will of the one true God.[/size]

Here is your contradiction, you first define Islam as "...submission of one's will to the only true God..." then at the conclusion you define it as "...submission to the will of the true God"

Qus: Are we submitting OUR WILL to God or we are submitting to the WILL of God?

The religion of Islam is not named after
a person or a people, nor was it decided by a
later generation of man, as in the case of
Christianity which was named after Jesus Christ,
Buddhism after Gautama Buddha, Confucianism
after Confucius, Marxism after Karl Marx, Judaism
after the tribe of Judah and Hinduism after the
Hindus.

We agree!

[size=14pt]Islam (submission to the will of God)[/size] is
the religion which was given to Adam, the first
man and the first prophet of God, and it was the
religion of all the prophets sent by Allah to
mankind.

You said here again that Islam is a submission to the will of God.
What is the will of God? please support it with Quranic verse(s)

Further its name was chosen by God
Himself and clearly mentioned in the final
scripture which He revealed to man. In that final
revelation, called in Arabic the Qur’an Allah states
the following:
“[size=14pt]This day have I perfected your religion for you,[/size]
completed My favour upon you, and have chosen
for you Islam as your religion.” [Qur’an 5:3]
“If anyone desires a religion other than Islam
(submission to God), never will it be accepted of
Him.” [Qur’an 3:85]

The underline is very funny so, Adam and the rest of the prophets were following UNPERFECTED religion before UNTIL ISLAM was perfected during the time of Muhammad.
Then Allah is unjust God by making A SINLESS and POWERFUL Prophet like Jesus to practice imperfect religion in His life time.

Hence, Islam does not claim to be a new religion
brought by Prophet Mohammed into Arabia in the
seventh century, [size=14pt]but rather to be a re-expression
in its final form of the true religion of Almighty
God, Allah, as it was originally revealed to Adam
and subsequent prophets.[/size]

"...re-expression in ITS FINAL FORM..." then you go further to say "...as it was ORIGINALLY REVEALED to Adam and subsequent Prophets"
This still means that Allah caused both Adam and the prophets to followed imperfect religion.

At this point we might comment briefly on two
other religions that claim to be the true path.
Nowhere in the Bible will you find God revealing to
Prophet Moses’ people or their descendants that
their religion is called Judaism, or to the followers
of Christ that their religion is called Christianity.

You're right because Christianity is not a religion, it is HUMAN who define religion BUT God shows His way and will to MAN by using man.

The idea that there's NO GOD brought the word RELIGION to mean PEOPLE WHO BELIEVE IN a GOD or GODS.

In other words, the names “Judaism” and
“Christianity” had no divine origin or approval.

If you have full understanding of the word DIVINE you wouldn't have said this.
Allah is divine because it's the name of the creator, so if Jesus is divine so be it His name and His derivative.

It was not until long after his departure that the
name Christianity was given to Jesus’ religion.
What, then, was Jesus’ religion in actual fact, as
distinct from its name? (Both the name Jesus
and the name Christ are derived from Hebrew
words, through Greek and Latin. Jesus is the
English and Latin form of the Greek Iesous, which
in Hebrew Is Yeshua or Yehoshua’ (Joshua)
[messiah], which is a title meaning ' the
anointed'.) His religion was reflected in his
teachings, which he urged his followers to accept
as guiding principles in their relationship with
God.

And these followers are the one who say Jesus is DIVINE that means Muslims didn't follow what Jesus instructed His follower
Another point you miss which I never see Muslims address is that Quran says Allah gave Jesus "THE GOSPEL" which means "GOOD NEWS or GOOD TIDING", what is this GOOD NEW/TIDING?

In Islam, Jesus is a prophet sent by Allah
and his Arabic name is Eesa.

In Islam again
Then why is it that if a Muslim convert to Christian, it's something else? this is what the Op is asking.

Like the prophets
before him, he called upon the people to
surrender their will to the will of God (which is
what Islam stands for).

What is the will of GOD according to Quran?

For example, in the New
Testament it is stated that Jesus taught his
followers to pray to God as follows:
“Our father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
may your will be done on earth as it is in
heaven.” [Luke 11:2/Matthew 6:9-10]
This concept was emphasised by Jesus in a
number of his statements recorded in the
Gospels.

In fact had it been that you read Luke and Matthew that you quoted with an open mind you will know Jesus didn't practice what you know as Islam because Jesus said "OUR FATHER..."

He taught, for example, that only those
who submitted would inherit paradise. Jesus also
pointed out that he himself submitted to the will
of God.
[size=14pt]“None of those[/size] who call me ‘Lord’ will enter the
kingdom of God, but only the one who does the
will of my Father in heaven.” [Matthew 7:21]
“I cannot do anything of myself I judge as I hear
and my judgment is honest because I am not
seeking my own will but the will of Him who sent
me.” [John 5:30]

God will judge you and your master who intentionally twisted Jesus word in that Matthew 7:21.
Islam is founded upon lie that's why LIES is permitted by Allah because Allah is a deceiver no wonder Muslims will never stop lying for propagation of Islam.

Your author says the beginning of Matthew 7:21 is "NONE OF THOSE..." and an open-minded person can see this obvious perversion of the Holy Bible.
What Matthew 7:21 says is "NOT EVERYONE..."

There are many reports in the Gospels which
show that Jesus made it clear to his followers
that he was not the one true God. For example,
when speaking about the final Hour, he said:
“No-one knows about the day or hour, not even
the angels in heaven, not the son, but only the
Father.” [Mark 13:32]

And this same follower called Him the Son of God which your book denied.

afolag:
Then you have to find out the truth by yourself, I use to ask myself also that what if my parent happened to be ifa priest.
Val download" Quran and mordern science by DR. Zakir naik" from youtube am sure after the 2hrs video you can tell where the book comes from. It always good to clear doubt.

So what of other religious book that agree with modern day science, are they from God too?

haffaze777: Jesus died. But God cannot die.

YES we agree that the HUMANITY of Jesus died BUT not the DIVINE one that’s why Jesus can go and preach to those spirits that were once imprisoned why the body is still in the tomb.
Have you ever asked yourself if Jesus ceased to exist at His death how can He preach to those spirits?

Jesus died but God raised him from the dead.

But Jesus Himself said He’ll be the one who will raise Himself, did Jesus lie?

Jesus calls himself “the beginning of the creation of God.” (Revelation 3:14). God confirms this, declaring to Jesus: “You are My Son, today I have begotten You.” (Psalm 2:7).

So you mean it was during the time of psalmist that Jesus was begotten, then how is He the beginning of God’s creation?
And The Father called Himself “The beginning...” Rev 20:6 please The Beginning of what?

But the Father himself is not begotten.

In what sense does Jesus was begotten?

He has no beginning but is from everlasting. The psalmist declares: “Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God.” (Psalm 90:2).

But The Father is ”The Beginning...” the beginning of what?
Jesus is also from everlasting Micah 5:2

Jesus has a Father. But God has no Father. Jesus has a God. But there is no other God but God. Jesus says to Mary: “I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.” (John 20:17).

Yet you said below that The Father called the Son God.

However, it should be understood that the son of a lion is a lion.

See how this below statement exposed your perverted teaching.

Therefore, Jesus, the son of God is a God. God the Father calls Jesus God, confirming his divinity.

If the Father called the Son God then the Father isn’t the ONLY GOD.

In your above illustration you said ”The son of A lion, is A lion”
Now see how you omitted (A) in case of Jesus ”Jesus, the son of God, is a God”
After you omitted a you still went ahead to say “...is a God”

Your statement should be like ”Jesus, the son of (A) God, is a God” BUT you purposely omitted that (A) because of its implication. God sees all your injustice.
It’s either the son of lion, is lion or the son of a lion, is a lion, which if we apply it to Jesus
It’s either the Son of God, is God or The Son of a God, is a God

Again what do you mean by DIVINITY of Jesus?

He says to Jesus: “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.” (Psalm 45:6-7).

Thank God you agree that these verses are for the Son.

So how many God do we have now?

These verses were quoted by the writer of the book of Hebrew the question is, what does this writer has in mind by applying this verse(s) which is solely explain the activities of the Yahweh to Jesus Christ?

Jesus explained to the Jews that in the scriptures: “(God) called them gods, to whom the word of God came.” (John 10:35). Indeed, God calls his sons gods. He says: “You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High. But you shall die like men,” (Psalm 82:6-7). He also says to his servant, Moses: “I have made thee a god to Pharaoh.” (Exodus 7: 1). Moses himself declares to the Israelites: “The LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords.” (Deuteronomy 10:17).

So far that The Father called everybody including The Son “God” that means the Father is not only God.

Paul summarises it thus: “Even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; [size=14pt]and one Lord Jesus Christ[/size].” (I Corinthians 8:5-6).

See how you exposed your shallow knowledge on scriptures again.
Since Deu 6:4 & Mark 12:29 say ”The Lord our God is ONE LORD” how then Jesus can also be called ONE LORD here? See how you contradict yourself.

In short, God is not Father, Son and Holy Ghost. There is only one God and it is the Father.

But remember you agree that The Father called the Son God and other people in the Bible, so how the Father is now only God?

There is only one Lord and it is Jesus.

Yet Deuteronomy 6:4 & Mark 12:29 say ”The LORD our God is ONE LORD”.
That means Jesus is God.

As a man cannot be differentiated from his spirit,

Is it the spirit of man that is controlling the body or it is the body that is controlling the spirit?

so God cannot be differentiated from his spirit. The Holy Spirit is the spirit of God.

Can God put His own Spirit into action? If God can, then it means the Spirit of God can be separated from God.

God has no equals

Is the Spirit of God the same as God?
If God has a Spirit, is it the Spirit that is controlling God’s body or God’s body controlling the Spirit?

The word “Christ” is not Jesus’ surname. It means “the Anointed One.” But the anointed must be subordinate to the anointer.

Does this name CHRIST apply to Jesus’ DIVINTY?

Nowhere in the scriptures is it ever said or implied that God is anointed. However, Luke says: “God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power.” (Acts 10: 38).

Jesus was anointed on earth not in His divine existence.

The Jews accused Jesus of making himself equal with God. (John 5:18). But Jesus never makes such claims.

You show it here again, when Jesus says God is His Father the Jews perfectly understood Him that’s why they said He’s making Himself equal with God, Just like the illustration you gave in above about a lion (even though you twisted it) so for Jesus to say God is His Father they knew that Jesus was claiming DIVINTY, which you agree with. Then I want to know what you mean by DIVINTY of Jesus!

Instead he says: “My Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28).

Yes the Father is greater than Him in position.

Jesus submitted totally to God. At Gethsemane, he said to him: “Not My will, but Yours, be do-ne.” (Luke 22:42).

Yes we all know that.

At-one-ment with God Nevertheless, Jesus declares: “I and My Father are one.” (John 10:30). However, the sense in which he makes this declaration is qualified. Jesus only does the will of the Father. (John 6:38). He only speaks the words of the Father. (John 14: 10). The works he does are the works of the Father. That is the true atonement, ensuring that he who sees Jesus sees the Father. (John 14:9). Jesus prescribes the same atonement for us. He says to God: “I gave them the same glory you gave me, so that they may be one, just as you and I are one: I in them and you in me, so that they may be completely one.” (John 17:22-23).

In fact this is not only getting out of hand but also astonished that ATONEMENT means the above.

Do you know the meaning of ATONEMENT?

haffaze777:
By Femi Aribisala

Who can help me post my reply to the original author of this article?

The word “Trinity” can be found nowhere in the Bible.

Just as the word “Bible” can’t be found within the scriptures.

Can you tell us why the whole scripture was called Bible?

It is completely incongruous with scriptural understanding of God. God is not three persons. There is only one God and it is the Father.

Then you contradict yourself by saying that The Son was called God and others in the Bible.

Jesus says: “salvation is of the Jews.” (John 4:22). Salvation is neither of the Romans nor of the Italians.

So in what way does this relate to the topic at hand?

The Trinity is an unscriptural concept, smuggled into Christendom under Roman Constantine by cloak-and-dagger means.
Precepts of men Jesus says to God: “Your word is truth.” (John 17:17).
But the doctrine of the Trinity is a lie. Here is the lie: “There are three that bear witness in heaven:
the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.” (I John 5:7). This so-called scripture is counterfeit. It is non-existent in the original versions of the Bible. It was smuggled into the Bible by Trinitari-ans. Today, you will only find it in the King James editions. The very fact that
Trinitarians found it necessary to smuggle I John 5:7 into the Bible in order to validate the doctrine of the Trinity shows conclusively that the doctrine is fake.

Is this only the verse in the Bible that Trinitarian use?

The cardinal principle of God is simple and straightforward. Here it is in a nutshell: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.” (Deuteronomy 6:4). This is validated by Jesus himself. (Mark 12:29). Therefore, hear O Christians, the Lord our God is not a Trinity. The Lord our God is one [LORD].

I added “LORD” so that you can see how THIS statement contradicts your own word below.

This is your own statement ”... and one Lord Jesus Christ.” (I Corinthians 8:5-6).”
Deuteronomy said “The LORD our God is ONE LORD and 1 Corin 8:6 says JESUS IS ONE LORD, doesn’t that tell you that Jesus is God or should we agree that these two verses contradict themselves?

Jesus berated the Pharisees for teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. (Matt-hew 15:9). Many churches have fallen into the same error with the Trinity fallacy.

If only you could reason within your own statement then you will know you’re the one teaching the precepts of men.

Family of God John says: “No man has seen God at any time.” (John 1:18). But men have seen Jesus.

Yahweh appeared to Abraham in form of MAN Genesis 18 did Abraham see God or another thing?

What you failed to know is that this particular verse was talking about seeing God AS THE WAY HE IS i.e in totality of His majesty by completing the statement that ”...; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

Therefore, the expression “God” refers exclusively [size=14pt]to God the Father.[/size]

@bold-then we can as well have “to God the Son” the bolded is a statement that makes God to be more than ONE.
Next time let your statement read like ”Therefore, the expression “God” refers exclusively to The Father”

Jesus never refers to himself as God; he reserves that terminology solely for the Father.

He never says “He is GOD” they say He blasphemy what if He now plainly says I am God, what would they do?
Yet you said the Father called the Son God :-/ :-/

When someone called him “Good Teacher,” Jesus replied: “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.” (Matthew 19: 17).

In fact this is another scripture that shows those who against Trinity lack understanding of the scriptures, why? Another funny thing is that some people will even say Jesus rejected being called “GOOD”.
Whereas in John 10:11 Jesus says ”I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep”
See how this same verse prove Jesus to be God
^Only God is good
^Jesus is a good shepherd
^Therefore, Jesus is God.

Jesus never says God is a Trinity. Instead, he reveals God is a family.

Are you still talking about the Father alone? because you’ve already said that The Son is God and other many people in the Bible are gods.

The head of this family is the Father. God’s household include Jesus; God’s sons and servants; and angels. That is more than a trinity.

See how this article mixed everything together,
The question is, The Father is it the only God? Which you have said No! So how many God can we find in this God’s household?

The man-made concept of the Trinity makes God an exclusive triumvirate, limited to “the Godhead. ” However, the Christ-revealed portrait of God makes God an inclusive and growing family, open to all believers.

I guess these believers are gods too according to you,
You couldn’t tell us whether the word “GOD” has a separate meaning when it’s been used for The Father or just only one meaning for all the gods including The Father.

Jesus said to God: “I will declare your name to my brothers.” (Psalm 22: 22). Jesus is: “the firstborn among many brothers.” (Romans 8:29).

One funny thing is that Anti-Trinitarian doesn’t know that the word “FIRSTBORN” is against them anytime they try to use it, why? If Jesus is the FIRSTBORN, why must Jesus MIGHT BE the firstborn again? Like the verse you alluded to Romans 8:29 “...in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren”, what does it mean when Paul says “...in other he(Jesus) MIGHT BE...”?

Believers are the brothers of Jesus. But we are not the brothers of God. God is our Father.

Give us the meaning of God before I’ll know what to say because you said the Son is God and the believers, here again you said we are not the brothers of God BUT if Jesus is God are we not the brother of God?

Sons of God Jesus only claims to be “the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:18).

So how did God beget Jesus?

Indeed, he drew a distinction between God and himself. He said to God: “This is eternal life, that they may know You, THE ONLY TRUE GOD, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” (John 17:3).

Does this verse address the divinity of Jesus or His humanity?

If it’s His divinity, give us one verse where He was ever called “JESUS CHRIST” before He came to earth and if it is humanity, then you should know that He is talking about the MAN who walks through the earth about 2000years ago.

When they accused him of blasphemy saying: “You, being a man, make yourself God,” Jesus replied: “I said, ‘I am the Son of God.’” (John 10:36). When Peter said to Jesus: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God,” Jesus confirmed this was a God-given revelation. He replied: “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.” (Matthew 16:15-17).

When Jesus first called God His Father in John 17-18 they (Jews) believed that Jesus was making Himself EQUAL with God, then in the same verse you mentioned WHAT DID The Jews DO when Jesus says He is the Son of God? ”Again they tried to arrest him, but he escaped from their hands.” John10:39 because they know that Jesus is claiming DIVINITY.

[size=14pt]This divine affirmation[/size] was repeated during Jesus’ baptism (Matthew 3:17); and on the Mount of Transfiguration. (Matthew 17:5). There can be no higher validation than these.

Do you mean Jesus was DIVINE as a heavenly being like angels or YOUR DIVINE here means MORE THAN THE ANGELS? Please explain!

John says: “If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater; for this is the witness of God which He has testified of His Son.” (I John 5:9). Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

Does being call the Son means Jesus was created or not? Again define what you understand by Jesus being DIVINE!

Jesus existed “before the foundation of the world.” (John 17:24). Then he became a man. (John 1:14). But God does not change. (Malachi 3:6).

Your wrong understanding of the scriptures has led you to pervert Bible.
It is true God cannot change His promise BUT He can appear in HUMAN FORM, true or false?
Did you also let the readers know that Jesus can’t change? because ”Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever.” Heb 13:8
If Jesus became man then Jesus isn’t the same, but your shallow mind about scripture has led to this contradiction because Jesus became MAN is what we called ”INCANATED” the word “INCANATE” means “cover with” so when the Bible says Jesus became man it means The pre-existence of DIVINE Jesus was Covered WITH FLESH or TAKING UP HUMANITY, that’s why Jesus is both God and Man.

Jesus is a man. (John 8:40).

Yet you said Jesus is DIVINE, can man be divine?

But God is not a man (Numbers 23:19).

“...that he should lie, or a son of man, that he should repent. Has he said, and will he not do it? Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfil it?”

The full verse in quotation, now let’s see whether this verse prove TRINITY wrong or affirm it.
^Did Jesus ever lie? No!
^Did Jesus as a Son of man ever repent? No!
^Has Jesus said anything and didn’t do it? No!
^Has Jesus spoken and it’s not fulfilled? No!

So if all these are TRUE about JESUS then Jesus is GOD because ONLY GOD has the ability to answer YES to all of these.

Rilwayne001:
"Stiffnecked Gainsayer" that is your name

Liars! after I've exposed your ignorant about the scriptures this is what you can come with.

SMH

udatso:
All am saying is that go to to that thread and convince your christian friends. When you have successfully defeated them, you can then try spreading your truth that has set you free.

Then why can't you first convince your brother Boko Haram, Taliban e.t.c before you can advice me?

Rilwayne001:
Because you choose to remain deluded … because truth is bitter to you … because you could'nt address my question in MArk

I've answered you but because you're confused you couldn't fathom my answer.

Both Deuteronomy and Mark address Yahweh's Unity not His nature.

So the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the LORD . [Genesis 18:22]

But remember it was The Lord who appeared and Abraham SAW THREE MEN AND WORSHIPPED THEM

It is said that "the men" turned from there and go towards Sodom, but the Lord stayed before Abraham, and enters into dialogue with him following this verse (the Lord doesn't leave until verse 33).

And this same TWO MEN were WORSHIPPED just the way ABRAHAM WORSHIPPED THEM.

AN open-minded reader can see that you never say anything about how these MEN were WORSHIPPED because you know that both Qur'an and Bible forbidden worship of CREATURE.

In the very next chapter, the men arrive at Sodom, and are not only numbered at two, but are identified as angels (Gen 19:1).

That's I'm giving you definition of ANGEL which it never stick to your brain.
Once again Angel simply means MESSENGER and it can also be used for the HEAVENLY BEING WHO WAS CREATED TO CONVEY GOD'S MESSAGE TO MAN.

The first man, whom Abraham had addressed at the start of chapter 18, is referred to later explicitly as the Lord , but is never referred to as an angel like the other two were.

That means my previous post is just a waste of time and energy on you.

I brought it out verse by verse how these three Men were addressed as one.

In vr 9 we read "And THEY said unto him..."
whereas in the next verse the THEY WAS CHANGE to HE.

Reading this plainly, we have to come to a different conclusion than those who stop at the first few verses of Genesis 18: the three men were not the three Persons in the Trinity, but the Lord accompanied by two angel, now this other two were sent by the LORD to Sodom, for they claim so in Gen 19:13 YAHWEH SENT US

Who says they are three persons in the Trinity? what I'm making plain for people here is that YAHWEH exists more than ONE IN NATURE which Moses knows about before he wrote Deuteronomy.

Again you insist they are just Angel, when Abraham worshipped them we might say it's because they accompanied Lord BUT Lot ALSO WORSHIPPED them and they were still called LORD TOO, WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO SAY about this?

He has provided a link for you please go and tell them the truth lies you are carrying about claiming it will set them free into bondage

I will go but always remember how confuse you're and the lies you're spreading.

Rilwayne001:
Yeah its a lie to cantankerous bellicose like you … Truth they say is bitter. You know me to well that i'm not a gainsayer like you, i don't like engaging in a futile argument,

Really!

instead of you to address my initial question, you tried to divert our attention to somewhere else.

Imaging I didn't address your question when I've shown you where Moses himself quiet known well that Yahweh exists more THAN ONE NATURE.

it is boldly written in Gen 19:13 that [size=15pt] "Yahweh has sent us to destroy it" [/size] how can yahweh sent them and you still telling me they are Yahweh …

The question is who are the Two MEN that the writer identified as Angels? we recall that THEY ARE AMONG the Three MEN WHEN YAHWEH APPEARS to Abraham as THEOPHANY.

You agree with this only to later change your statement when I exposed your weak knowledge about THEOPHANY.

we should'nt forget in the begining of Gen 19 we are told 2 ANGELS came to Sodom and i asked you which one of the angels in the story was Jesus all you do was typing your usual bulcrapp.…

Yet you agree that these Two Angels are to be understood as THEOPHANY which means appearance of God ( Yahweh) in human form.

The name JESUS was given to humanity of The WORD that became Flesh.
How do you want me to tell you which one is Jesus?

The fact is these two Men/Angels were called Lord (Y@hovah) which I let you know that any member of the Godhead can be called this name.

Meanwhile you could'nt address my other rebuttal especially the psalm 110 u claim,

In fact, I've prepared answers to all your post BUT when I read the lies you put up yesterday I get tired because it's like I'm wasting my time and energy.

all you do is running up and down this thread doing like hulkogan SmH. lol

While you keep lying and confused.

.....And you know i'm not into that rubbish..i will soon leave you to your delusions

When your lies have been exposed.

Did Muhammad ever WORSHIP Gabriel or Gabriel answered any Muhammad's request/Prayer or Gabriel was directly called Allah just because Gabriel was sent by Allah?

Yet you want to make it fits into Bible just for you to spread your lies.


I know an open-minded reader can judge for him/herself.

udatso:
All am saying is that go to to that thread and convince your christian friends. When you have successfully defeated them, you can then try spreading your truth that has set you free.

From 2nd century people have been having different view about God and Jesus Christ so is not today, I KNOW YOU WILL BE HAPPY INTERNALLY for Anti-Trinitarian BUT just remember that they still believe in PREEXISTENCE OF JESUS which Qur'an never supported.


Anyway I will go to the OP and show you how the OP contradicts himself on that thread.

udatso:
Rilwayne. Please ignore emusan.
@ emusan please go to the thread below and argue trinity and divinity of jesus with your christian brothers . pastorkun is waiting.www.nairaland.com/1935442/femi-aribasala-trinity-doctrine/4#1935442.153

Why must he ignore me?

Your brother who initially said the Angels are to be understood as Theophany later come back to say THE MEN are truly a created Angels and I went ahead to show him where THE MEN were WORSHIPPED BY BOTH ABRAHAM AND LOT.

Theophany means appearance of God in human form.

And you can see all the jargons he put up there just because there's no truth in him

I know because he's your brother you can't see anything wrong with this statement but read it again with an open mind.

Angels appear in the name of YHWH to
do YHWH's will. They are MESSENGERS of
Yahweh. [size=14pt]And so people are expected respond to these angels as if they are responding to
YHWH Himself.[/size]

With this statement; did Muhammad ever WORSHIP Gabriel or Gabriel ever answer any PRAYER because he was sent by Allah?

The ball is in you people's court.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free"

Rilwayne001:
Mr. Emusan

My brain is dull

..LMAO..

I don't have your time now

To come again and spew lies.

Rilwayne001:
Moses is an angel too abi … all the prophets in the OT are angel as well abi, they are not angels created to live in heaven, but if a jW tell you jesus is archangel, you will be the first person there showing muscle abi keep deceiving yourself.

Your brain is dull, sorry about that. The word ANGEL simply means ‘MESSENGER’ this word was also used for HEAVENLY CREATED being as a MESSENGER of Yahweh. Quran says Muhammad is a MESSENGER of Allah we can then say Muhammad is an Angel BUT NOT THE ONE CREATED LIVING in heaven TO DELIVER ALLAH’S Message.

JWs claimed Jesus is Archangel Michael that was created to LIVE in HEAVEN whereas me calling Jesus an Angel stems from the view that JESUS WAS SENT TO EARTH NOT A CREATED BEING THAT LIVES in heaven which we also refer to as ANGEL.

The next thing you will do is to begin to say that Emusan also says that Jesus is an Angel.

Even the ghost writer of Hebrew will call you a lier for calling jesus an angel.
Hebrews 1:4 NIV: So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.

With the above verse the writer tells us that Jesus was'nt an angel, that he is superior to an angel...

Then who says Jesus is a created being living in heaven that we refer to as ANGEL?
See how confuse you are and how weak your brain can work.

And we read in genesis 19 that "Two angels came to Sodom"......

Which I also shown you from Gen 18 that this two Angels are among the THREE MEN who visited Abraham the writer used the word Angel for them but THEY WERE SENT. Why simple English is so hard for you to comprehend?

The angels were SENT by YHWH. truly they are messengers,messengers of Yahweh with a message from Yahweh but they are not human being. In the OT, it is very common for us to find an angel, or angels,sent by YHWH who are respected as if they were YHWH Himelf. This is because it is known that they were messengers sent by YHWH and to honor these angels is to honor the One who sent them: YHWH.

In fact this shows HOW DISHONEST YOU ARE.

You mean THE THREE MEN WHO APPEARED TO ABRAHAM are JUST ANGELS SENT BY YHWH

Anyone reading this can see how TRUTH IS FAR FROM YOU.

Jesus teaches about this principle. To honor the one sent is to honor the one who sent him. Angels appear in the name of YHWH to do YHWH's will. They are MESSENGERS of Yahweh.And so people are expected respond to these angels as if they are responding to YHWH Himself.

Anyone who read Gen 18 & 19 can see that you’re a liar...
If the above is the case THEN JESUS CAN BE WORSHIPPED AS YAHWEH

When Abraham met the three men, he addressed them as adoni , "my Lord" (18:3). While there are three men, the Hebrew singular word adoni is used by Abraham and he is addressing plural "men" in the singular as if they were one person. This is because Abraham recognizes they are messengers of One, Yahweh, and their message is from One,Yahweh Himself.

And you can overlook the fact that Abraham WORSHIPPED THEM which negate that ONLY YAHWEH deserved to be WORSHIPPED YET you can accuse Christians for worshipping Jesus if your analogy should be taken into consideration.

You can see that TRUTH is far from you.

We have just read that the LORD appeared to Abraham, that is, Yahweh appeared to Abraham. So when Abraham speaks to these three messengers, He understands they are sent from one person, Yahweh, and so he speaks to them as if he is speaking to one person, Yahweh, and he does so because Yahweh sent them.

Likewise when Abraham WORSHIPPED them he believe that he is worshipping Yahweh, in like manner when Christians worship Jesus they believe they are worshipping the One and Only LORD

Verse 18:3 is not the only place this occurs. Again at verse 19:18, we read, "And Lot said to them , my Lord, please no!" Again, the word is the singular word adoni and both these two angels are together addressed with singular adoni as if they were one Lord. At this point, it becomes absolutely clear what has been going on since Abraham first met the three.

Just listen to yourself they were addressed as if they are one...SMH
Also Lot WORSHIPPED THEM just as Abraham WORSHIPPED THEM.

Because Lot addresses two of these of "men" as singular adoni , and we know these two are angels, it is quite clear why Abraham addresses the three as adoni when he first met them.He addresses these messengers, whether one, two, or three, as "my Lord" because they were sent from his Lord Yahweh and he is speaking back to his Lord Yahweh who sent them.

Then Abraham and Lot’s worship to THE MEN are for YAHWEH when Bible forbid worshiping of any creature, so who is dishonest here.

In the language of the Bible, we might read that King X destroyed the city. It would not, however, necessarily mean King X was even present at the scene. If King X stayed at home and the servants of King X went and destroyed the city, the language of the Bible would be that King X destroyed the city because the subjects of King X and his servants, represent King X and the Kingdom of King X. And it is no different concerning Yahweh and the angels who are representatives of God. In each case, their identity is wrapped up in their King.
Take King Herod as an example.
Now my question is "if we are to believe or take your assertion, Which one of the angels in the story was Jesus"

Now Bible has language of its own just because of your dubious act.
Has it stands now according to Mr. Rilwayne001 only Muslims disobey God by not WORSHIPPED, HONOURING, RESPECT, AND TAKE GOD’S MESSENGERS as God.

According to you a Messenger should be WORSHIPPED, HONOUR and ADDRESSED just because they are sent by GOD. WHY MUSLIMS DON'T DO IT?

Rilwayne001:
Another lie here!
They are not only to follow it after entering the promise Land; it is an eternal commandment that they are to follow forever and ever in other for them to have eternal life.
Please reread the verse again, i guess you missed the part where it says they are to teach their generation in other for them to have long life.

I can see that you couldn’t fathom my point here, what I meant is this THE COMMANDMENT was given so that THEY WON’T associate any pagan gods to YAHWEH in the land they’re going (which still stands till today NO ASSOCIATION OF PAGAN god with YAHWEH) because the nations surrounded that LAND where they’re going are already into PAGAN worship, so the COMMANDMENT is to remind them that ONLY YAHWEH is their God NOT THAT THE commandment address the NATURE of YAHWEH.

Hope it’s clear now?

And this is the greatest lie have ever read in nairaland by trying to divert our attention away from Mark 12:29-34 where it is clear/glaring that jesus is neither God almigty Nd doesnt share in His divinity you bring in another trinitarian deceptive verse to buttress your bogus argunent. Let us quckly examine Gen. 19:24.

Lol...Imaging I’m diverting people’s attention when I only alluded to Deuteronomy so that people can see where Jesus was coming from in Mark.

When we read the account in Genesis 19 carefully, we find that it is the angels who will destroy Sodom. or else you want to tell me that jesus is an angel .

Genesis 19:12-14 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom.... they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them.... Then the two men said to Lot, "Whom else have you here?".... for we are about to destroy this place , because their outcry has become so great before Yahweh that [size=15pt]Yahweh has sent us to destroy it[/size] ."Lot went out and spoke to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, and said, "Up, get out of this place, for Yahweh will destroy the city.".... Then Yahweh rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Yahweh out of heaven

First, carefully observe who destroys Sodom: Yahweh destroys Sodom. (19:24). Now, carefully observe who says they will destroy Sodom: the two angels (19:13). Also carefully observe how Lot understands the angels when they tell him they will destroy Sodom. When the angels say they will destroy Sodom, Lot understands this to mean Yahweh will destroy Sodom (v. 14). It is quite clear, if you actually read the account in reasonable honesty, [size=14pt]that these two angels destroying Sodom are Yahweh who rained down brimstone and fire.

In other words, we are to understand these angels are Theophanous of God[/size] that is, not that GOD the father himself, same way i tried to explain the role Angel Jubreel played in the revelation of the Quran, which fall to your deaf hear.
^You quoted Genesis 16:7-13
In the verse above it was the angel of yahweh that appear to hagar, and he conveyed her exactly as if he is yahweh, same way aangel jibril conveyed the message to muhammad, well thats not a discussiom for today.

If a stranger of the scripture read this your post s/he might think you’re making a good point just the way Muslims in the house will be encomium you BUT unknowingly that you’re confused and that you’re distorting the scriptures.

Firstly, Jesus is an Angel in a sense that He was sent INTO the world because Angel simply means Messenger BUT He is not an Angel created to live in heaven.

Secondly, @first-underline; you actually believe that the two angels are just a representative of YAHWEH that’s why even Lot understood them as Yahweh which you later support with the story of Hagar.

Then @second-underlined shows how confuse you’re and how you lack scriptural knowledge because if not you won’t talk about Theophany again, do you know the meaning of Theophany?
Theophany simply means Manifestation of a deity to man or the appearance of God in human form. Had it been you know the meaning of Theophany you won’t conclude that the Angels are to be understood as Theophanous.

Thirdly, I don’t want to go into detail before but you’ve made it happen.

The Angels are actually Theophanous which means is the APPEARANCE of YAHWEH though the writer used ANGEL might be because THE WERE SENT like I said The word Angel doesn’t necessarily mean a created being who lives in heaven.

The story started from Genesis 18 when the Lord appeared and Abraham saw three men and Abraham still addressed these three men as LORD (Y@hovah) and WORSHIPPED them.

^In vr 2 ”When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, and bowed himself to the earth,
^In vr 9 we read a plural pronouns ”They said to him...” this comprises the three men
^In vr 10 the writer changed back to ”The Lord said, I...” This was used up to vr 15 which means the Unity of the men.
^In vr 16 the writer changed back to men
^In vr 17 The Lord was used again for this men up to vr 21 where this statement appears in vr 21 ”I will go down to see...” which means THE LORD is going down there.
^In vr 22 Two was single out going towards Sodom while the only one remained with Abraham was called the Lord this was used till the last vr33

What is so astonished about this story is what we found in Lot’s story.
Before I proceed I want the readers to know that your initially claimed was that The Angels are just Yahweh representative.

At the beginning of Lot’s story we read in vr1 ”The two angels came to Sodom...” this two Angels were identified with the three men who visited Abraham then if the men which the writer identified as ANGEL were just an heavenly created being then they shouldn’t have accepted WORSHIP from Lot because Lot WORSHIPPED them the way Abraham WORSHIPPED the three men.

^In vr 1 ”...When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth,” this is exactly what Abraham did.
^In vr 12 the writer used ‘the men’ again
^In vr 13 they said The Lord (Y@hovah) has sent them which mean they are the very one who will carry out the operation.
^In vr 14 Lot believed that they are The Lord (Y@hovah)
^In vr 16 “But he (Lot) lingered; so the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the LORD (Y@hovah) being merciful to him,...” we can see how THE MEN later called THE LORD and performed a prerogative who only belong to God by being MERCIFUL to Lot.
^In vr 18-20 we see Lot made a request/prayer for salvation. The astonish part of it is that....
^In vr 21-22 we see that the Angel GRANTED Lot’s request/prayer which no created angel can do.
^In vr 21-22 we can see again the PERSONAL PRONOUN being used to show that THEY are the one who actually want to carry out the operations i.e “...that I will not overthrow the city...”, “...for I can do nothing till you arrive there...”

So that’s why vr 23 & 24 can say ”The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar.
24 Then the LORD (Y@hovah) rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD (Y@hovah) out of heaven;

By using your OWN word “It is quite clear, if you actually read the account in reasonable honesty,” it means you didn’t read it in a clear reasonable honesty.

Lastly, you contrast this account with Gabriel of Quran BUT an honest person can see that Allah never APPEARED in form of man so Quran Gabriel can’t be compared with this account.

I think i have made myself clear on how angels act on behalf of God in sodom.

You didn’t make yourself clear RATHER you distort the scripture and show your dishonesty.


All Bible quotations are from RSV.

Rilwayne001:
If he was'nt talking about himself here as ONE AND ONLY LORD , then who was he talking about if truly he is the one and only Lord.

In fact, I’m tired of you because you reason like a child.
For the last time, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit make up The Unity of God which is one and only Lord.

If he was talking about the Unity of God why did'nt he mention himself to make the explanation clearer to the pharisees.

He quoted from their own scripture which talks about God’s Unity.

Do you know more than Jesus that you want explains in a way that is against what was written in that passage

I don’t know more than Him and I didn’t go against what was written but saying exactly what was written.

NOW THEIR ARE MANY POINTS TO NOTE IN THE VERSE ABOVE:

These are the verses you quoted Mark 12:29-34, I removed them to avoid long text.

* They affirm that Jesus been Master (in scripture understanding) as said the truth about the scripture, that there is ONE GOD and there is no other god but HE (notice the HE in red letter) [any honest person that read this verse will affirm that the HE does not include jesus.

Your problem is because you don’t want to tell yourself the truth, so after Jesus has quoted Deu 6:4-5 which affirmed the Unity of God you still want Him to say no...? I’m also God :-/ :-/ How will you feel if someone stands in your front and says I am God?

Therefore, Jesus doesnt share in the divinity of God almighty]. Now did Jesus correct this man about it i.e to uphold trinity( that he shared in the diviinity?)

One thing you fail to understand is that Jesus didn’t come to earth to claim divinity RATHER to do The Father’s will, imaging Jesus never says He is God they accused Him of blasphemy what will now happen if Jesus says I am God?
He only reveals His true identity to few disciples at His transfiguration.
Jesus didn’t need to correct Him because the man was right and if Jesus is to say to them(the Jews) that He is God THE JEWS WILL GET IT TWISTED (they can’t fully comprehend it-just like you) and think He is talking about the one they know through OT.

* No, jesus did't correct him, rather he saw that he had answered [b]discreetly and told him that he is not far from the Kingdom of God....

He didn’t correct him because the man truly hold to the teaching of God’s Unity in OT.

My question now is, who are we going to believe between jesus and you
For he didnt endorse is divity here while you said he is God.

Believe Jesus who teaches that God is one and that David speaking through the Spirit called The Christ his Lord in the same chapter BUT you term it contradiction.
He’s not on earth to prove divinity since He understood that the man still hold to OT teaching of God’s Unity.

Again who is the ONE and ONLY LORD?
know that if Jesus is not the ONE AND ONLY LORD then comparing Jesus to ONE AND ONLY LORD is bogus.

God’s Unity that comprises The Father, The Son and The Holyspirit no other One and Only Lord apart from this Unit.

edogho:
Now Mr.Emusan and dear readers, i went through all in d link u gave and i will like d readers to do same.

Good of you BUT it seems you couldn’t comprehend the link very well because of the below respond

To sum everything there up, the write-up holds that the Father, the Son, and the HolyGhost are distinct persons.

You’re dishonest here “...YOU SAID THE WRITE-UP HOLDS...” which means you never understand what TRINITY is all about before you jump into it and I only gave you that LINK to educate yourself about TRINITY not to use it to put forth more questions on TRINITY.

but are co-equal, co-eternal and co-substantial and they hold same nature and essense,

Yes you’re right

i would like u mr.Emusan to tell us how are they all with same ESSENSE, EQUALITY, NATURE

Your question should be like, [b]how are they EQUAL in the same ESSENCE and NATURE?

when Jesus clearly states in John 14:28 that the Father is greater than he is.

Don’t bring another verse into this because 1 Corin 15:24-28 is why you quoted me which I observed that you confused it with Modalism.

If you want to bring anything up from that LINK then you can open another thread which I’ll give my little contribution(s).

when He also states in Matthew 24:36 that none but only the Father knows that day

See above

and when He clearly rejects being called good in Mark 10:18 stating that only the Father should be called good?

You’ve added your own statement into this TEXT, Jesus didn’t reject being called good because He is the GOOD shepherd, I don’t want to dive into this much so let’s leave it as it is for now.

and how can they be equal when u and that link acknowledges that they're not of same position?

They are equal in both essence and nature so this answers your question about 1 Corin 15:24-28.

what meaning of position are we looking at here?

Any one your mind can fathom.

mind u, i don't enjoy being accused of twisting things, even if u happen to be right, its not like d acclaimed twisting was delibrate. ok, i anticipate ur reply sire.

You’re welcome sir!
As it stands now, 1 Corin 15:24-28 never disprove divinity of Jesus it only shows the position of the Son which Trinitarians never denied.

Rilwayne001:
All these your long epistles and throwing of scriptures anyhow does/have not address/answer my question at all, you just keep throwing yourseld into troubles/contradictions shooting yourself in the leg.

Why would it address your question when you’re already confused?
Well if you think they contradict is because of the wrong glasses you put on.

I will address your quote one after the other for my chatbox cannot contain them at once been the fact that am using my phone.

I will also do the same about yours JUST that it might not be as quick as you’ll expect it.

Hmmm... I don't need to go back to this or take it as an excuse, But you know in your mind that you are telling a lie here …

Anyhow you see it, in fact for me to say “I’ve tendered my apology” should convey a message to you.

Ok. what took you so long before

You!

Hmmm...another dimension

Nothing like another dimension, Quran is totally false on this; Christians never claimed that God is the Christ which makes Christ both the Father and The Son.

Is'nt this ^^what xtianity claim

Yet you’ve been on Nland for some years now you don’t know what Christians claim
Go and learn more about TRINITY.

in the Book of Psalms "I will declare the decree: the LORD HATH SAID UNTO ME, THOU ART MY SON; THIS DAY HAVE I BEGOTTEN THEE" Psalms 2:7

Not only David was called son of God in the Bible in fact they are many which I’m not going to address here to keep my post cool.
BUT remember Christian didn’t deny the Sonship of other people in the Bible because I’m also a son of God BUT not in the sense of Jesus our Savior.

NOTE: This is one of the things that prove Quran wrong that God has no Son despite the fact that God called many people including the Nation of Israel His son.

BUT what we should know is that EVEN THOUGH Jesus was the Son of God, He is totally unique and existed with the Father before creation then makes Him different from other sons of God mentions in the Bible, Reasons?

I’ll quote some Bible passages to buttress my point EVEN THOUGH you will discard them.
”No one has ever gone into heaven except the one (Jesus) who came from heaven-the Son of Man...For God did not SEND his Son INTO the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him” John 3:13,17
PLEASE IF YOU DON’T WANT ME TO AVOID YOUR POST DON’T ASK ANY QUESTION ABOUT NO ONE HAS GONE INTO HEAVEN, I’m trying to keep this post cool. So YOU CAN DO THAT BY OPEN A THREAD if you’re confused about it because I only want to bring out this point ”...except the one who CAME from HEAVEN...”

”What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was BEFORE” John 6:62

”I came from the Father and ENTERED the world; now I am leaving the world and going BACK to the Father” John 16:28

“’Yes, Lord,’ she told him, ‘I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, who was to come INTO the world,’” John 11:25-27

NOBODY ever called son of God who claimed all these apart from Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Which meams David is a god as well, abi

Let the above verses answer your question

Okay! with the bolded are you affirming that Jesus is not God almighty himself

Jesus is not totality of God Almighty (which means He is not the whole Unity of God i.e comprises of The Father and The Holyspirit) BUT Jesus as the God Son is Almighty.

Ok sir, now let’s go to the major discussion.

Ok sir, I will

Had it been you pay close attention to my posts you would’ve seen that I didn’t abuse any one you held in high esteem BUT you and your brother sometimes misunderstand my point AND WHEN I notice this I apologised even though I didn’t stress myself to clear the misunderstanding.

But now that you’ve made yourself clear this is my respond to your question.

Rilwayne001: This is what the Quran says
Quran 5:72 Indeed, they have disbelieved who say, "Behold, God is the Christ, son of Mary" - seeing that the Christ [himself] said, "O children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer."" Behold, whoever ascribes divinity to any being beside God, unto him will God deny paradise, and his abode shall be the fire: and such evildoers will have none to aid them.

In fact the first underline statement is a false accusation against Christianity because nowhere Christian ever say ’God is the Christ’-it means Jesus also comprises of both the Father and Holyspirit what Christianity claim is that ’Jesus is the Son of God and God’-which means He possesses All the attribute of God through His Father. You might be confused about the word ‘GOD’ I’m using here but the God here can be in form of a Title like King (Recently even the Pagans have started using capital G for any deity they believe in).

Truly Jesus said the above in the bible.

"O children of Israel! Worship God [alone], who is my Sustainer as well as your Sustainer."
&
The Lord OUR God is ONE LORD

Next time your statement should read like, Truly Jesus said a SIMILAR THING like the above in the bible because these two statements aren’t the same.

MARK 12:29-34 — And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; [size=15pt]The Lord OUR God is ONE LORD: [/size] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these. And the scribe said unto him……………"

Only a blind man will not see the ONE LORD in the verse above.

UNTIL ANY ONE OF YOU CAN PROVE TO ME THAT JESUS WAS TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF HERE. ELSE YOU ARE ALL RETARDED INCLUDING THE OP

As you rightly said Jesus wasn’t talked about Himself here BUT about the UNITY of God Jesus quotes directly from the book of Deu 6:4-5.

Here let me digress a little for Bible Study!
The whole Chapter 6 of Deuteronomy was given to Israelite as commandments they must follow when they enter the PROMISE LAND ”... that you may do them in the land to which you are going over, to possess it; verse1

For the sake of space and to avoid long text SEEKER OF TRUTH can read the whole Deu 6.

The reason why these commandments came is for them to FEAR GOD and not to lost after any Pagan gods/ TO SERVE ANOTHER god BESIDE YAHWEY in the LAND they are going, this reason is very clear when we read verse 13-14 ”13 You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve him, and swear by his name. 14 You shall not go after other gods, of the gods of the peoples who are round about you;

The evident of Moses speaking ONLY about the UNITY of God rather than the NATURE of Yahweh can be seen from the Book of Genesis which Moses himself wrote: ”Then the LORD rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;” Gen 19:24
One LORD who was present at Sodom and Gomorrah rained FIRE from ANOTHER LORD who was in heaven.
For Moses to identify two separate Lord here it means Moses fully aware of Multi-personal being of YAHWEH before he wrote the book of Deuteronomy.

While in the book of Mark, the reason why Jesus alluded to Deuteronomy is because of the trap they’re trying to set for Jesus Mark 12:13 “And they sent to him some of the Pharisees and some of the Herodians, to entrap him in his talk.

If you read this chapter from verse 13 downward you’ll see how they ask Him different questions, so what Jesus did is to remind them about the commandment on God’s unity.

With the foregoing in mind I’ll now turn to your question by holding unto this statement of yours ”Truly Jesus said the above in the bible” for you to say this it means you believe these are actually true word of historical Jesus, so I’m going to use the same book of Mark chapter 12 to answer your question.

Let me start first from verse 1-8 HYPERLINK "" "He then began to speak to them in parables: 'A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. [size=14pt]He had one left to send, A SON, WHOM HE LOVED. He sent him last of all, saying, ‘They will respect MY SON.’ But the tenants said to one another, ‘This is THE HEIR.[/size] Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.’ So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard." Mark 12:1-8 NIV

The Hebrew Scriptures identify these servants as God's prophets who were sent to the nation of Israel: "From the day that your fathers came out of the land of Egypt to this day, I have persistently sent all my servants the prophets to them, day after day." Jeremiah 7:25

These verses are so rich for two reasons:
1) The SON here exists somewhere else before He was sent.
2) With this phrase ”... He sent him last of all,...” it means Jesus is the cumulative of all Prophets (Servants) and distinguished Himself (since He is God's beloved Son and Heir) from all the Prophets.

Remember Quran denied the Sonship of Jesus Christ.

Lastly, had it been that Muslims who always raise this question can a little bit be SINCERE to themselves they would’ve found answer to their problem few verses next to the one they take out of context.

Again: "While Jesus was teaching in the temple courts, he asked, 'How is it that the teachers of the law say that the Christ is the son of David? David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared: [size=14pt]"The Lord said to my Lord: 'Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet. '"David himself calls him "Lord."[/size] How then can he be his son?'" Mark 12:35-37 NIV

The Lord Jesus, in this citation, refers to all three Persons of the Trinity. [b]The Lord Jesus indicates that David, speaking by the Holy Spirit, called the Messiah/Christ his Lord which implies that the Messiah is more exalted and greater than David. When we combine this statement of Christ with what he said earlier in Mark 12:29 regarding there being one Lord, then it becomes quite evident that Jesus claimed Deity.

Notice why this must be the case:
*There is one Lord, namely Yahweh God.
*The Christ is Lord.
*Therefore, the Christ is Yahweh God.

But at the same time David refers to two distinct entities as Lord, which means that God exists in more than one Person:
*There is one Lord, namely Yahweh God.
*David speaks of two distinct entities as Lord.
*This, therefore, shows that Yahweh God is a multi-personal Being.

Further support that David was calling the Messiah Lord in the sense of his being God can be gathered from the fact that, at the time of the Psalm's composition, there was no one greater than David. Read Psalms 89:19-20, 26-27, 1 Chro 29:20-25.

Back to Deuteronomy it means for David to talk about two separate Lord, he fully aware of the written of Deuteronomy YET he can see the Christ as his Lord.

In conclusion both Deuteronomy and Mark are talking about God’s UNITY not God’s nature.
Mind you TRINITY simply means Tri(Three)-in-UNITY, that is ‘Three NATURE of God in ONE UNIT’.

I hope you can reason with the Op now?

You might want to reject this by saying Mark 12:35-37 are corrupted parts of the Bible then don’t forget that this is just a citation from OT book Psalms 110:1 just as the very one you believe are also a citation of Deuteronomy 6:4-5


Shalom!
All Bible quotations are from Revised Standard Version unless otherwise noted.

I can see where your problem lies.

edogho:
i'm shocked @ d bolded. i wasn't always like this bro, was once a trinitarian too and d bolded isn't what i was taught. d antanasian creed does not support what u're saying. it posits that d father, d son and d holy spirit are one in position, power and essence and that's what i don't agree. maybe u've got another version of trinity sha.



1cor 15:27,28 clearly shows that d Son and Father distinct and not d same person. i don't see how a person would be subject to himself after he's been an exception. savvy? i will quote exactly as it is in d bible, when i get mi bible. Goodmorning anyways...

I must confess that not All Trinitarians can fully explain TRINITY in details this might be your case while believe in Trinity then.

But your post shows how you've been misunderstood the teaching of Trinity.

1) FIRST THING Trinitarians believe is the DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE THREE PERSONS of the Trinity. The Father is not The Son and The Holy Spirit likewise the Son is not the Father and The Holy Spirit and likewise The Holy Spirit is not the Son and the Father. This is your first misunderstanding about TRINITY.

2) What Trinitarian most adhere to is THE NATURE AND PERSON of God NOT THE POSITION because they believe that The Father is not begotten (generated), created & proceeded, but The Son is begotten (generated) by The Father and The Son is not created and proceeded and The Holy Spirit is proceeded from The Father and The Son but is not created. This shows another error from you about TRINITY.

I know JWs always twist or misquote the word of the earlier founder of the TRINITY to deceive people BUT IF YOU TRULY WANT TO BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF AND TO KNOW WHAT TRINITY IS ALL ABOUT AND THE VIEW OF THOSE WHO PROPOSED THE THEORY OF Trinity kindly read this link please DON'T be in haste while reading it JUST because YOU WANT TO REPLY ME, take your TIME to read it.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity

One major reason I want you to read that LINK is to prove my above TWO STATEMENTS wrong, like I said earlier the readers can judge for themselves by comparing the POINT you raised with MINE.

Thus far, if my posit is right then 1 Corin 15:24-28 didn't prove TRINITY wrong.



Shalom!

edogho:
thank u, d bolded is exactly mi point, if u understand or think otherwise, why would u not want to reply me ? just like u rightly stated, we're on a public forum and there'll be readers. so, what say u bro?

So where in those verses that say Jesus is not God?

Just answer by verse 24 or 25 and quote it, you don't need to post long text (just citation of the verse) because I need fact before I'll answer you.

I won't reply it because Trinitarians believe that The Father is greater that The Son in POSITION.

edogho:
@BIBLESPEAKS and RIKKODUSEINN, JMAN05 and many others on this forum have sweated, done all they could and tried to clear this buh many esp mr. emusan and yooguyz just don't want to run a check on their beliefs. d last time i was involved in a thread on this topic, i challenged all trinitarians on here to dare to interprete 1cor 15:24-28 buh none could. i still i'm waiting for a trinitarian to interprete, for i only see people adopting d ostrich style here. will hang around and see who'll take d podium sha

Peace

Always make your statement clear because you're in a public forum so that the readers can compare each statement.

I'll first ask you, what do you think 1 Corin 15:24-28 go against on TRINITY?

Let me help you;
Did it say Jesus is not God or Jesus was created or Jesus is inferior to God (If this is your posit I don't even need to reply you)?

At the end everything must go in line with the Op.


Thanks!

Abdulsalam20:
malvisguy212 and emusan where are you i expect you to stand on your claim that muslim are antichrist and emusan you have believe now that begotten is a fabrication let me tell you religion should nt be something you practice because you are born in it it should be what u practice because u consider it a way pls come and prove me wrong that christian are not antichrist

You think by avoiding your post I ran away or I was defeated, if you can spent your whole day on NLand I can't because many things need to be done.

Secondly, since you've joined Nland I thought your power of comprehension suppose to have increased BUT IT SHAMEFUL that it doesn't.

After I took my time to tell you the reason why KJV MIGHT have used the WORD BEGOTTEN you can still post it again that THE WORD BEGOTTEN wasn't appeared in the manuscript quoting Greek language as if you can point it out or interpret it.

Did I claim that BEGOTTEN appeared in the manuscript?

For the last time, the word that appeared in the original manuscript that KJV rendered as "Only begotten son" is MONOGENES which have many meaning i.e sole descent, ONE OF HIS KIND, UNIQUE e.t.c and I said KJV version might use BEGOTTEN as an emphasis of ONE OF HIS KIND (I hope you do know the meaning of ONE OF HIS KIND?) WHILE the Version like RSV goes for just ONLY and another 50eminent scholars of NIV can also accuse RSV as not proper rendering of the word MONOGENES because NIV chooses better meaning "ONE AND ONLY SON"


Finally this particular thing also happened in QURAN but because you've been brainwashed you won't see it in Qur'an but only Bible..

let me tell you religion should nt be something you practice because you are born in it, it should be what u practice [size=14pt]because u consider it a way[/size]

In fact the BOLDED of your statement is so ludicrous because if CONSIDERING A RELIGION as a way that makes people practice a religion THEN THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN KNOW THE TRUE RELIGION because anybody can compose a book and claim it's from God.

The different between you and I is that The True God of the universe who created Adam, spoke to all the Prophets and sent His Only Son for remission of sin has revealed Himself to me WHEREAS YOU DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO ALLAH and if you read OT you'll see the God who spoke to All Prophet always reveals Himself to people.

The questions you need to ask yourself are;
*Why Muslims don't have personal encounter with Allah?
*Does it mean that after Muhammad and Qur'an God ceased to reveal WHEREAS Jesus says in John 14:23 That He and His Father will reveal themselves to whosoever love Him?
*Both the OT and NEW Testament have verse(s) where God reveals Himself to Prophets and their servants but Qur'an is exceptional, Why? because Nowhere in the Quran or Hadith that record any Muhammad's companions to receive revelation from Allah for over 20years of Muhammad prophet hood.
*If Allah didn't reveal himself to Muhammad through Jibril as Muhammad claimed, how will Muhammad know that Allah exists?

You might have heard many TESTIMONY of Christian having personal encounter with God and discard it BUT IT'S TRUE because God has revealed Himself to me too.



Shalom!

Rilwayne001:
This is the initial claim of the OP

and here is my reply which none of you are yet to attempt.

Was Jesus refering to himself in my MARK

If not then who is the ONE AND ONLY LORD

I've prepared answer to your question but I still want you to swallow up the word 'morons' in your first post because you can't expect a MAN LIKE me to reply to a post that the author lacks public morality.