₦airaland Forum

Abdulsalam20: as it is said in [size=14pt]revelation 14:6[/size] pls which angel is flying with the everlasting gospel that is gabriel who reveal the quran to muhammad(saw)

Angel Jibril indeed....as if you believe in the written of John himself.

and what is the ever lasting gospel that is the quran, the torah of moses and the injeel are just a warning to the bani israila just as it is said in the book of moses above that i will bring up a prophet like u from among my brethren

Yet you said the torah and the Injil have been tampered with....Now they're part of everlasting gospel! Confusion.

HIS IS AN EXAMPLE OF WHERE THE BIBLE IS TAMPERED WITH THE BIBLE PERMIT ALCOHOL IT EVEN CALL GOD A DRUNKARD..... psalm
78:65 then the lord awoke as from sleep as a
man wakes from the stupor of wine. See how
Christians disgrace their God,
also this Jeremiah 25:15-16 This is what the LORD, the
God of Israel, said to me: “Take from my hand
this cup filled with the wine of my wrath and
make all the nations to whom I send you
drink it.When they drink it, they will stagger
and go mad because of the sword I will send
among them.”Also in Jeremiah 25:27-28 Then
tell them, ‘This is what the LORD Almighty, the
God of Israel, says: Drink, get drunk and
vomit, and fall to rise no more because of the
sword I will send among you.’

Straw man argument, how does these verses relate with tampering?

SO U CAN SEE GOD KNOWS THE BANI ISRAILA WILL TAMPER [size=14pt]HIS WORD[/size]

This is where I'm going and my question you didn't answer.
1) Quran says the word of Allah can't be change but because you want to prove that Allah is a liar you said Allah's word can be change.
2) How is it possible for Allah to protect Quran from being change and difficult for Allah to prevent your Bani Israel from tampering with its word?

THAT IS WHY HE BRING US THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL WHICH IS THE QURAN NO ONE HAS EVER TAMPERED IT,

This is the lie you're being feeding with, infact not that no one tampered with quran BUT Devil himself has his own writing inside Quran called satanic verses.

NO SINGLE CONTRADICTION

Maybe your problem is you don't browse other than Islamic site where contradiction in Quran will never mention....kindly do yourself a favour by typing "contradiction in quran" on Google maybe you will see any link pop up.

EVEN UNITED STATE USE MILLIONS OF DOLLAR TO TEST WHAT THE QURAN SAY IN THE ASPECT OF SCIENCE THEY ARE LEFT WITH THEIR MOUTH OPEN BECAUSE THEY FOUND THE TRUTH AND THAT IS WHY ISLAM IS THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION IN UNITED STATE

Science when your book says earth is flat...
Fast growing religion on paper, why not using Nigeria as an example?

REPENT AND FOLLOW THE TRUTH

Jesus says "Ye shall know The Truth and the Truth shall set you free" John 8:32
What is this truth that we shall know?
Jesus answered the question "Jesus said unto him I am the Way, THE TRUTH, and the Life, no one come to the Father except through Him" John 14:6

Can you see who need to follow the Truth

And remember they won't share in you own judgement neither you share in theirs.

Abdulsalam20: yes some bible parts has been tampered with any aspect that contradict islamic teaching is not from GOD

Lolll....
So how can Allah be so weak to protect Bible when Allah can't allow anybody to tamper with Qur'an?

even though it has been tampered with we can still find some few traces of prophet muhammad and some few islamic teaching that ur people forgot to tamper with

Who are the people me or people who live before Muhammad or after Muhammad?
Qur'an say no one can change the word of Allah, so why Bible was tampered with?

because GOD knows that if he allows u to tamper with everything before the spirit of truth come it will be difficult for people to believe

Yet the same God who can't allow anybody to tamper with Qur'an is so weak to allow another people to tamper with Bible.
How does it sound?

The next thing Muslim will do now is to claim all the prophecies in the Bible for saw or what did you people call him?

Which Bible?
The one that contains many contradictions or the one that has been change or the historian narrated one which Christians have today according to Muslims?
Or Muslims have finally gotten the original Torah of Moses and Injil of Jesus?

Confuse people!

BERNIMOORE: why are you pained? it was nt an attack but true verified statement of facts accesible on the NL. yooguyz does not believe in God and bible anymore because bible condemn homosextuality which he practice as a priest
https://www.nairaland.com/1877993/yooguyz-confirm-atheist-status-n

https://www.nairaland.com/1881512/controversial-gay-pastor-yooguyz-fails

so posting topics from the bible itself is mockery and that is what i am against, he has not denied what i posted and so, if you are not comfortable with it sorry, he's got his right to post opinion on matter so do anybody

I understand you, you try to let us know that Younguyz is not a Christian and doesn't have right to quote Bible (which he had already clarified him) BUT you as a supporter of watchtower didn't see any problem with your so called "LIGHT getting brighter society" FOR SOMETIMES quoting from a SPIRITUALIST Johannes Greber and a SKEPTIC John Parsons to support their lies.

Imaging the point the OP trying to make that an organization that claimed HOLYSPIRIT revealed all its teaching YET could not know the actual person Archangel Michael is FOR GOOD 2-3TIMES UNTIL THE FIFTH TIME.

BERNIMOORE: you once said that the bible, not only JW'S NWT but bible as a whole is for the gullible, and that 'you dont even believe in God' you have insulted God in your links below. so why quoting it again?


https://www.nairaland.com/1877993/yooguyz-confirm-atheist-status-n

https://www.nairaland.com/1881512/controversial-gay-pastor-yooguyz-fails

Why attacking Yooguyz and not the OP?

JesusisLord85: Utter rubbish!! Just a bunch of mumbo jumbo and confusion you teach. And I will spare not!

Colossians 2:16 is not about what you are supposing.
Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days"

So you read that and think you don't need to observe sabbath. Lol. Ok, let us look at drink. Many of you so-called Christians teach alcohol is forbidden. But the verse you use to justify your sunday 'rest' is that one could easily use via the same poor interpretation to justify drinking himself stupid.

You do not understand Colossians AT ALL. Let me give you the precept!

Ezekiel 45:17 "And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel."

Paul was talking about sin and peace OFFERINGS. Christ was the lamb of God, who taketh away the sins of the world. Now they were being taught the Messiah is the passover lamb so they need not bring an animal to atone for their sins.

This is not saying you do not need to keep sabbath. If it were, that would make Paul a false teacher.

Passover remembers to deliverance from Egypt. They kept it for thousands of years after that.
Christ fulfilled what was written about him in the law and prophets. Even if he fulfilled whatever it is you are trying to say he did regarding the sabbath, how would that mean you no longer need to rest on the 7th day? This ordinance was meant to be observed for ever. Get that through your head.

Shalom

Do necessary adjustment on your post of those caustic words before I reply you.

Yooguyz: If you want my attention, answer me and Emusan's question

Shalom

Don't mind her

Emusan: All the words inside [……] are added by me never appear in Bible.

After several attempts of whom the Archangel Michael is, JWs has finally come to conclusion and based their doctrine on Jesus Christ be the Archangel Michael.
To all Bible students, Archangel Michael is a created being of God. In their Bible story book, JWs explained that God first created a being[God's Son] which supposedly to be an Angel Michael and this being helped God during the creation period which God later sent to the world in a person of Jesus Christ.

Was Christ truly a created being?

John 1:1-14; it's a well known Bible verses which talk mostly about Christ in reference to Him as "The Word". JWs believe that "The Word" in those verses is not God that's why they used "a god" in verse 1.

Let's see what the JWs say about "The Word" as the one created everything including archangel Michael.
John 1:3 "All things[including Archangel Michael] came into existence through him[The Word], and apart from him[The Word] not even one thing[including Angel Michael] came into existence, what has come into existence."

In this verse with the insertion of the word "APART" it's very clear that without "The Word" not a single thing came into existence which pushed "The Word/Christ" outside of creation.

*If "not even one thing came into existence without Christ", how come Christ/The Word later became Angel Michael a created being according to JWs?

Similarly, apostle Paul uses a statement to this verse in Romans,
Rom 11:36 "Because from him[God] and by[through] him[God] and to him[God] are all things...."
By separating each phrases here we can get;
1) Because from him[God] are all things
2) and by[through] him[God] are all things
3) and to him[God] are all things.

Focus on number 2, because most time Christ is included in creation in the Bible it's always in form of "by/through him"
Here all things are by/through God not that God created Christ first and then through Christ created the rest/other.

FIRSTBORN:
Because of this word FIRSTBORN JWs throw themselves into confusion which lead to a contradiction in their Bible. In Col 1:15-18, Apostle Paul made a similar statement like that of Apostle John. Let's look at those statements;
Rom 1:16 "Because by[through] (means of) him[Christ] all (other) things were created in the heavens and upon the earth.... All (other) things have been created through him and for him"
Verse 17 "Also, He is before all (other) things and by[through] (means of) him all (other) things were made to exist."
NOTE: Those words inside the brackets were added to give more meaning to the setences.

Here we can see this inserted word "OTHER" in those verses.
Now, with the insertion of this word "OTHER" in the two verses it shows that Christ was first created before any other things which then put Christ into creation and also contradict John 1:3 & Rom 11:36.

Why the word, OTHER in those verses?
Because in verse 15 this phrase "the FIRSTBORN over all creation" appeared, and without fully understand this word JWs became confused whereas the firstborn here was used as a sovereignty/preeminent. If Apostle Paul means first created, he would have used the Hebrew word protoktioti rather he used the Hebrew word prototokos which means sovereignty/preeminent.

Last sentence in verse 16 of that Colossians 1 and that of Romans 11:36 together with John 1:3 compliment each other in any version except JWs version by the insertion of the word "OTHER".

CONCLUSION:
In fighting against TRINITY JWs throw themselves into pandemonium confusion changing of doctrine upon doctrine and to a contradictory statement in their Bible. Also no where in the Bible it was stated that any being helped God in creation as it was explained in their Bible story book rather Bible declared that God created everything by His Word Heb 11:3, Gen 1:2-24.
Who knows which doctrine JWs will come up with later and the Bible warn us that "In order we should no longer be babes, tossed about as by waves and carried hither and thither by every wind of teaching[doctrine] by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in contriving error." Eph 4:14

All the Bible references are from New World Translation.

No comment!

truthislight: You DIRTY lying hypocrite!

Who told you you dont have to open a thread to prove your points if they are the truth ?

Dont you know how to quote bible again ?

Is your lying tongue afraid to defend your points ?

There is no difference between you and that thing that you are supporting, you are both dirty and deceitful.

Go ahead and open the Dam thread and use the bible to prove the so call "lies" you talked about.

May that your "holy ghost" help you in your endeavour fellows.

Smh.

Can't stop laughing.....

What have you done with those ones I've opened before?

Like I said it's not you nor anyone will challenge me to open a thread, if you're not okay with that I'm sorry you will wait long. I will do it when I want to.

Lucario007: I believe in the fact that the world is too complex and well-crafted to have come into being on its own... yes there could be a creator.

But do I believe that this supreme creator is Yahweh? The God of the Bible? Absolutely Not.

The God of the bible is more of a capricious, malevolent bully who has committed or permitted crimes from mass murder, genocide, fillicide, infanticide to minor things like incest.

Yes, there could be a creator, but he does not interfere in the activities of man after creating the world. He just lays back and let things take its course.

Or faded out of existence.

That Creator is not Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Krishna or any other 'god' that men have made.

Then the creator you believe in, does he/she/it a conscious being or just an ordinary force?

If your answer is a conscious being!
Has this creator ever revealed him/her/itself to a conscious and intelligent human for many years of human race on earth OR was unable to do so?

If your answer is just force!
Then, how can ordinary force create an orderly universe that we can see today?

If your answer is anything else!
Kindly state it and juxtapose.

BERNIMOORE: because most of their arguments are on point! many people likes them, ie @00seven, myself and others but dont neccesarily be their member and i dont see any reason apart from your own insinuation that makes them illegal!

You call it ARGUMENT or the truth?
Again you said MOST!
So where do you belong to?

You are known for 'rephrasing or redefining statements' i am not saying that you should have problem with him at least you feel confortable with him as a trinitarian, but then you dont have a problem with when he said 'he does not even believe bible verses that you both share! its noteworthy, its your choice you ve got the right, but You DELIBERATELY play down what i put to you, by cynically changing what i mean, here is my statement which you replied again;

Show me the reason for the underline statement.

someone who does not have the same belief in Gods word! but disrespect to GODS word and i provide a proof with links, https://www.nairaland.com/1253965/implication-tithing#15197331
of which he did not deny; now this is not about 'criticsm of christian faith' as you put it below

I repeat I'm not concerned about Yooguyz but people like you.
Mind you Yooguyz is not the one who opened my eyes to JW deceit.

if you are not disappointed at an ordained priest like yooguyz, a catholic who 'in his own word said that he does not believe the bible verses that he is quoting, and that bible is meant for the gullible' then are you ARE A GULLIBLE? i dont expect you to answer directly, you can keep the answer

You've already identified yourself, I don't need to drag anything with you.

after all the jews and the pharisees chose the thief 'barbara' as their beloveth choice against 'jesus' so as to have jesus killed, its not new.

If yooguyz is an Atheist, will he be the first to point out his view about Christianity? absolutely NO! and someone like you can talk about Atheist but you don't want Atheist to talk about your faith...SMH

Emusan(only), kindly open a thread and invite me there and post the link on this tread, pick a (1) topic and point out where they twist scripture, then one after another lets discuss 'do not copy several allegations and paste, one after another, we can see the truth

I don't need to open a thread because I'm not a baby on NL so you can check my username and see some of my threads about their lies.
Anytime I feel like I will create a thread about them if you like comment or dodge your head.


Shalom!

Yooguyz: @Emusan, please help me ask kookolet07 to provide the scriptural basis of the 1919 doctrine that has it that Jesus chose the watchtower as the only true religion, since she doesn't respond to my posts any longer.


"In 1919 the cleansed slave class could look forward to ever-expanding activities." Watchtower 1993 May 1 p.16

"Similarly, starting in 1919, Jehovah brought forth the seed of the woman as a spiritual nation." Revelation - It's Grand Climax p.18

"How long did this respite for the seed of God’s woman last? Revelation 12:6 says 1,260 days. Revelation 12:14 calls the period a time, times, and half a time; in other words, three and a half times. In fact, both expressions stand for three and a half years, extending in the Northern Hemisphere from the spring of 1919 to the autumn of 1922. This was a period of refreshing recuperation and reorganization for the restored John class. ... After 1922 Satan spewed out a flood of persecution against the Witnesses." Revelation - It's Grand Climax pp.184-185

She won't because she has been programmed with it.

You can even see that in one of her reply when she said "the light is getting more brighter"

irishCream: she will not answer you!!! She is busy reading one black book like that titled "reasoning from the scriptures" she will either copy vebatim from there and post here or consult few of their members that are more ground in the so called organisation. I stopped listening to them the day I found out one of their founders is an illuminati member. They don't make use of their thinking faculty rather prefer to copy exactly what their western counterpart print and send for them globally. I pay deaf ear to any man-made doctrine QED!

Don't mind her!

BERNIMOORE: i am not aware maybe JW are the only true Christian on earth, but anybody who believe in the holy scripture and have faith in God through christ jesus is a christian in my own personal defination, i am not a jehovahs witness, ok?

and since yooguys does not believe in the bible as he confessed in this link https://www.nairaland.com/1253965/implication-tithing#15197331, is he a christian to you and in a position to critisize those trying their best?

But you always support JW here, why?

About @Yooguys I don't have problem with him whether he criticizes Christian faith or not (if at all is an Atheist) since he won't be the first or the last BUT my main concern is people like JW who claim to be followers of Christ but always twist scriptures.

Anyway I thought you're a JW before.

BERNIMOORE: its a lie! your aim is to persuade all Christians to become like you, that is alienated from God and practice anything their mind tells them even if bible condemn it or not

when Christians criticize other christian it is acceptable according in the bible which says 'that you should reprimand so as to be sound in faith' but in your own case you dont believe in God and bible,https://www.nairaland.com/1253965/implication-tithing#15197331

Sorry for jumping into your discussion but I'm not clear with the underlined statement in your post.

Was Pentecostal and others included in your ALL CHRISTIANS or only JW you're still referring to as ALL CHRISTIAN?

Doesn't JW are the only true Christian on earth?

kokolet007: A very interesting point u have bought up, plz kindly check john 5vs 43,john 17vs6.....jesus set the example we should all imitate,that's y he told his disciple he didn't come to do his will buh of his father and also check john 17vs 3 to see how important and jesus is.

Don't dodge my question right.

John 5:43 says "I am come in my Father's name.." I believe this is the part you need.

John 17:6 says "I have manifested thy name..." this is what you need too

John 17:3 says "And this is life eternal, that they may might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" I don't know what you want from this verse.

1) How do all these answer my question?
2) I need the verse where the command appeared because if I want to deal with all these we will deviate from the topic.

This is my question again, why do your organization was called JEHOVAH witness and not JESUS witness since it's Jesus who gave the command?


So kindly provide the verse where Jesus gave the command of door-to-door evangelism.


Shalom!

kokolet007: 3. We keep coming to your doors even though we have regular jobs and family like you because we are admonished to do so by Jesus Christ.

I'm only interested in this no.3 by asking this question.

@underlined part; if Jesus Christ is the one given you people command to do so, why your organization was called JEHOVAH witness and not JESUS Christ witness?

Please back up your reply with scripture(s).

Olusanya333: Now i see you lack the Spirit of God.

Really?

Have u ever ask urself why u go to church on sunday's nd all christains do the same?Because Satan change the Law and times Daniel 7:25. Pray for the Spirit of God.

Not only that Satan change the law and time he has even brainwashed some people to the essence that they can reason outside the box.

Jesus said God is a Spirit and those who worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth..John 4:24

So sabbath is a sign consummated by Jesus Christ and what God wants from you is your worship in spirit and truth.

Olusanya333: As i said to others i say to u also "Mine is to let u know not to force u to agree".PEACE

I say to you also that you don't know what SABBATH signifies.

See above for that.

Shalom!

Let me widen your knowledge about THE SABBATH.

Sabbath Observance:
Old Testament Precedence

God had commanded the Israelites to observe a Sabbath day, to make the seventh day one of rest where they abstained from labor. This command made it even into the Ten Commandments, as the fourth one (cf.
Exod 20 : 8 ). God based this model of rest on the fact that he too had stopped his work of creation on the seventh day since it had been
completed:
"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God finished his work that he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work that he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it God rested from all his work that he had done in creation." Genesis 2:1-3

"You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, ‘Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you. You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death. Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever. It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.’" Exodus 31:13-17

Here we can see that SABBATH is a SIGN.

Consummation in the New Testament

Israel’s Sabbath observance, which was modeled after God’s own Sabbath, was intended to point to a greater spiritual rest. Just as God had rested from his work of creation and entered into an eternal Sabbath, a day which continues for all eternity, believers are to rest from trying to merit their righteousness through observing the Law and trust in Christ’s perfect righteousness. Once a believer truly trusts in the Lord Jesus he enters into God’s own Sabbath whereby he no longer has to merit his justification since he has been given the promise of eternal life:

See how the author of Hebrew book put it.

"Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. For the Gospel came to us just as to them , but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened. For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, ‘As I swore in my wrath, "They shall not enter my rest,"’ although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: ‘And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.’ And again in
this passage he said, ‘They shall not enter my rest.’ Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the Gospel failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, ‘Today,’ saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, ‘Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden
your hearts.’ For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever HAS ENTERED GOD'S REST has also rested from his works as God did from his. Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience." Hebrews 4:1-11

Here you can understand the SIGN that was spoken about in the OT.

Again, since the reality has come:
"Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a
Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ ." Colossians 2:16-17

The sign of Sabbath is one of the thing Christ came to fulfilled or consummated
As Christ himself taught:
"And he said to them, ‘The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath; so the Son of man is lord even of the sabbath.’" Mark 2:27-28

Why would anyone want to return to
the copy or shadow of things?

Hope this will help

Olusanya333: "Think not that I have come to abolish the Law but to fulfil them" nd with ur quote "Christ is the end of the Law" it will appear it contradict but No u misinterprete.

I'm not talking about contradiction here but your understanding about the sentence.

There is Law of Moses nd d Law of God i.e Ten commandment.

Nothing like Law of MOSES all Laws belong to God but they have specific purpose.

The Law of Moses contains regulations for worship,feast,sacrifice nd sm others also u read Leviticus to understand dis.The Law of Moses(law of sin and death) Jesus nailed to the cross and d curtain of d Temple torn into two dat Christ goeth in into d Holy of holies where d Ten commandment is Laid to give us power dat we in d Spirit might be subject to the Law of God i.e d ten commandment.

Understand you but each law has his own purpose of giving it.

1 john 5:1-3. Now i know yee acted in ignorance but now thou knoweth because on d day of Judgement Christ will ask thee.Do u do my Fathers will(d ten commandments)Then thou will says Do i not prophesy nd teach in ur name,do i not cast out demons in ur name?But He shall say Depart yee evil workers.

Hmmmm Ten commandments is God's will new dimension.

Now I say Repent and Follow the Truth.Keep God commandment and Fear him.

When you don't even know what you're saying.

Rilwayne001: I WONDER WHY YOU DIDNT ADDRESS THOSE TRANSLITERATION I PROVIDED IN BOTH CASES (SALAT & SALLE)

After I've exposed your little knowledge about Arabic you said I didn't address your translation.

The question is which word those translations rendered as blessing or honour?

Which you said is SALLEE and I go further to let you know that both SALAT AND SALLEE mean the same thing been derived from the same ROOT word WASALA.

Very pathetic!

THE FACT THAT SALAT WAS NOT USED IN THE VERSE, THE FACT THAT SALLEE WAS NOT USED IN PLACE OF PRAY IN THE QURAN (BETTER STILL PROVIDE IT FOR US) SHOWS THAT THE TWO WORDS ARE DISTINCT....

Your problem is the inability to comprehend simple English just as it's difficult for Allah to express Itself in simple English.

1) You keep clamouring that the word SALAT was not used YET in Muhsin Khan's Translation the word SALAT appeared, did you ask why Muhsin Khan used SALAT in his translation? which I further explained by letting you know that both SALAT & SALLEE can interchangeably use because they came from the same ROOT word WASALA.

2) For saying the two words are distinct shows again how you lack Arabic knowledge.

3) What is the meaning of SALLEE?

BROTHER....HAVE A NICE DAY.

You too

AFTER WASTING MY MB,AND MY PRECIOUS TIME REPLYING YOUR SILLY CLAIM...YOU PREFER TO BE LYING BY IGNORING MOST OF MY POSTS.
I AM DONE ENGAGING IN A FUTILE ARGUMENT WITH YOU..

I didn't ignore your post in the first place and I don't need to reply all your post when I've already seen the lapses of your post ~~~F9 in Arabic language ~~~ so all I could do is to help you by bring out your error.

Runing away as usual!

Stop deceiving yourself and being ignorance of your own faith SALAT & SALLEE are the same thing.

In case you're reading my post from underground see the surah where SALLEE was used for prayer "And the angels called to him as he stood praying (yusallee) in the sanctuary: Allah giveth thee glad tidings of (a son whose name is) John, (who cometh) to confirm a word from Allah, lordly, chaste, a prophet of the righteous. S. 3:39 Pickthall

So can you see where your problem lies?

Lastly can you be able to decipher between PRIMER & PALMER now?

SMH seriously for you.

I'm so glad that you finally exposed your ignorance on YOUR OWN BELIEF.

Just read this before you disappear sha.....

Rilwayne001: before then let me expose your mentors lie here...

Let's see who is lying or ignorant about his own scripture.

The fact that you are trying to cover the lies and deception of Sam shamoun here shows how perverted you are....

Really! OK let's see.

therefore, i now count you to be a liar and a deceptor, evangelising xtianity by lieing about other people faith.

So if I now point out your own loop holes what will you call yourself?

the fact that you yourself never went through the topic before you just copy and then paste it yourself,

Let's see who didn't read the article properly by being blindfolded through false teaching.

after when i showed you that the primer translation is nowhere to be found and i quote all available and accepted tranlation to counter your claim,

First Error: Your first mistake is @color part and this shows that you didn't read the article properly.

You can go back to the OP or Sam Shamoun's article and see whether the word PRIMER is there. The translation is called PALMER translated by Edward Henry Palmer.

Can you see your problem here?

you still went ahead and say Sam Shamoun is not biased, Infact for using the word bias makes you also a great lier..SMH

Is Sam biased now or what?
Remember I also say he(Sam) exposed the BIAS part of the other translations who rendered the word SALAT as blessing, honour e.t.c

The problem you are having here is that you thought the word SALAt was used in the verse, unfortunately for you it was not SALAT that was used ..

Unfortunate for you, you couldn't ask yourself WHY people like Muhsin Khan rendered the word SALAT as blessing despite the fact that it appears BOLDLY in the text and what is the word SALAT doing in Muhsin Khan translation if the word was not used?

This shows that you argue blindly.

here is the transliteration and you must point to me the word SALAT there....
SALLEE
Muhsin Khan
He it is Who sends Salat (His blessings)
NOTE: SALLEE is singular
SALLOOONA
Muhsin Khan
Allah sends His Salat (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.)
NOTE: SALLOONA is plural

Waooooo this is the sweetest part of your post because you simply analysed at all without much stress for me.
Since you've analysed it this way no need for me to do it again than to expose your own ignorance about how much you know Arabic and Qur'an, The words YUSALLOON or SALLOO or YUSALEE or SALAT are all derived from the root word WASALA,

That is why the word SALAT or SALLEE or SALLOO can interchangeably be used.

Can you see it now?

Now please answer me do you agree with me that Sam Shamoun was trying to deceive us here or not

Do you agree that people like Y. Ali, Picthall, Sahih are deceiving Muslims for rendered this verse as blessing, honour e.t.c and Sam is innocent for exposing this lie?

Salat (ṣalāh) is an Arabic word whose basic meaning is "bowing, homage, worship, prayer". In its English usage..http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salat

So give us the meaning of WASALA?

Can you now see the difference or cant you see?

Can you now see they are the same or can't you see?

Now was Sam shamoun trying to deceive us here or not?

Now were you been deceived by those translations or not?

Does SALAT and SOLLEE looks alike

Please give the meaning of SALLEE as you do to SALAT so that we can see who is lying

who is trying to cover up this obvious problem if your mentor the deceiver called Sam Shamoun? Are you still going to cover him up or not?

Answer these questions yourself.

damilarelr: Not that He has forgotten His words, just that He loves reminders. A suitable example is the case of the Israelites that were almost forgotten in Egypt, God remembered the covenant He had with their fathers when He heard their groanings..

So who pray to God before He remember His promise?

Where you miss it is from the angle you took the definition of prayer from whereas prayer simply means Communication with God (for Christian). You'll agree with me that you don't communicate/talk to your biological father just because you need something from him. So likewise God, you communicate with Him always that's why the Bible says pray without ceasing but this might not entail shouting.

@OP
Let me start with you with this simple question, what does the Bible mean when it says for Christ is the end of the Law?

tintingz: This will be my last post here in this thread.

Then why did you reply?

The word "Iqra"means to read, recite, rehearse on.

Kk

The first word Gabriel said to Muhammed(sa) was read/recite because he was unlettered. This is a miracle.

This is for another day

I didn't insert the 'read' myself the sura started with iqra.

Ok

The Quran is the word of Allah(swt) not Muhammed(sa)

See how you failed I'm only reiterate what you said about Muhammad be the one who wrote Qur'an we have today with his own hand.

Do you read Arabic Quran?
The word 'say' is 'qul' in Arabic which started in sura Ikhlas.
See the image above ^^

The problem here is that the surah in the image wasn't the one I quoted from beginning you jump into this and bend it. Go back to my first post and see the surah REMEMBER I said in my previous post that SAY or qul is not common in Qur'an stop forming ITK

Again the bible was written by historians how else do you want it to be written?
My post above answer this.
again your bible was written by historians.

So even the Torah of Moses we have today wasn't written by him and it's an historian work too. SMH

The Roman speech I gave was to show how a messenger present his message since you can't comprehend a statement from an originator and a messenger.

Again the messenger always uses a third person pronouns with a clear distinction like "Ceazer said..." in Bible "And God said..." to let the audience or readers be able to differentiate between the messenger's word and the sender BUT THE SURAH in the OP don't have this.

So? Where is the confusion here?
We can see God clearing Moses(as) doubt about whose voice was calling from the fire "Behold it is I, God"

I know you won't see it.
Thank Allah you agree that it's Allah who actually called from the fire so Allah is the one who is praising Itself by saying "Blessed is he who is in the fire.....Glory be to God" here this suppose to be direct Allah's word YET Allah is using third person pronouns "He" according to you with Roman example, was Allah also sent as messenger for using this pronouns?

The Moses(as) verse you quoted( Quran 27) is very clear that God was the one talking to Moses. Where is the confusion?

The confusion is Allah that is not a messenger still speaking in third person pronouns, praising itself and referring to another God by saying 'Glory be to God'. Which God again when the God itself is talking?

In the case of Samuel message to Saul we can see him saying exact what God said.

You need to go back to secondary sorry for that bro because I don't know how you did it.

You see the statement of Samuel begins with "Thus saith the Lord of host..." and Samuel uses appropriate pronouns which is personal pronouns. Samuel statement will only be grammatically wrong if Samuel begins to use third person pronouns after he's about to quote someone else i.e He or Him or Us

Lol, I didn't insert any say to any verse I quoted from the Quran.

But not the one we are dealing with in the OP.

@Rilwayne001,

SAMPLE 2

“indeed, the Qur’an is a word a NOBLE messenger. possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure .Obeyed there and trustworthy. And your companion is not mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takweer: 81:19-23]

Now let's look at this surah and compare it with the translator's insertion.

If pay close attention to statement of this surah you've discovered that there's a grammatical conflict within the text.

1) The first sentence portray it as Quran is a messenger with the phrase "....is a word a NOBLE messenger" no clear distinction that's why the translator has to insert "[CONVEYED BY]" to bring out the meaning.

2) This phrase "possessed of power and with the owner of the throne" doesn't match each other and never compliment the previous statement that's why the translator has to inserted [Who is] which now placed Muhammad as the subject.
With the owner of the throne simply means it exist/stand along the whoever own the throne yet was Muhammad fits into that position?

3) The word 'secure' rendered the insertion word that made muhammad the subject useless because the translator gets confused so s/he inserted "[in position]"
Does Muhammad secure in position with Allah?

4) This next one is more perplexing, remember the translator has already placed Muhammad as the subject but see what this phrase says "Obeyed there [in the heavens]"

Can you see how insertion killed these verses.
Yet the original text doesn't favour either.

Who is being obeyed here in heaven Muhammad or Qur'an?

This is enough for you to digest.

Rilwayne001: This will not move forward when you keep on dodging my explanations.

Your explanation is out of point that's why I didn't reply them.

What this thread is all about is the usage of plural pronouns, first person pronouns by the narrator within the same text, the poor wording arrangement of Qur'an and misplacing simple word.

I will reply as soon as am with my computer later on tonight..

Even all your post never makes any different than Internet congestion.

RRilwayne001: First of all, we all know Jesus never teaches Trinity, neither was it taught by Moses and other Propehts in The OT,

The issue at hand is not who teaches TRINITY or not BUT I only tell you what the Hebrew scriptures say.

now if we to follow your assertion here "Are you saying Yahweh was talking to his Word Are you saying Yahweh was talking to his spirit The verse states that LET US CREATE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE Mr. Emusan Please can you say to your word and spirit that 'EMUSAN LET US PAINT A PORTRAIT'

What you're bringing out here absolutely out it because we're not dealing with Trinity here. It left for you to decide BUT the TRUTH of the matter is Yahweh is multi personal and He uses plural pronouns to address His Godhead many time even Jesus did.

You can't compare this with Allah that supposes to be one entity yet always referring to Itself with plural pronouns.

It's left for you to tell me why Allah always use pronouns like 'I', 'me', Us', 'We', 'Him', 'He' e.t.c when It's not multi personal

And i asked you a question which you actually duldge, i said was the writer present when YAhweh was talking

You think I duldge your question but I didn't because I believe my explanation covers everything.

The writer wasn't present with Yahweh but the writer clearly distinguished his own word from Yahweh's word like in that Genesis 1:26 the first sentence is "And God said...." which shows that another person has entered the scene..in that case Yahweh has took over by saying "Let US...." the US wasn't including the writer.

Please this is simple English I won't repeat myself any more.

Please who is the Narrator? Was he present when God was saying all this word

Moses! He wasn't.
Get knowledge the writer has already excluded himself from the plural pronouns with the phrase "And God said..."

This phrase "And God said" or "Thus saith the Lord" or The Word of the Lord came to me, saying" are very rear/no where to be found in the Qur'an despite that Qur'an was narrated through a SECOND PERSON.

Rilwayne001: The Quran is clear in Arabic much more than the way it is in English since it was revealed in Arabic...thats my point..

If Qur'an is cleared in Arabic, does it mean it can be cleared in English?
Shouldn't the English translation suppose to be the exert Arabic words?

I showed you times in my post on this thread that The Quran is Allah's word which was conveyed to the prophet through Angel Jibril, and i said there is no way you will be conveying a message of your boss to a third party without you adding your own word to it, Angel jibril is just like a teacher teaching the prophet the word of God, Therefore both God and The angels word appeared in it (The angel acting like a teacher and Allah revealing himself in some part.

Qur'an is Allah's word yet you said it contains Jibril & Allah word at underlined statements.

I dont know if you get the point in the above verse.....It clearly stated here

Nothing clears brother.

The Quran is 100% Allah's word

Yet it contains Jibril's word according to you.

because i have already showed you the rank of Angel Gabriel,

So because of its rank that's why it recites confusion or used personal pronouns where It supposed to use it for Allah.

I showed you where the prophet affirm that he (jibril) is a guardian to him,

I can see where you missed this thread.
We aren't talking about who guides or providing guidance to Qur'an, we're talking about poor usage of simple pronouns where the types of pronouns are being used by the narrator.

also the prophet said Jubril is a teacher who taught him the word of God and the Quran was written according to how Jibril was conveying it to him...What else do you want?

What I want is you should grade Allah for Its wording arrangements & killing simple pronouns.

“indeed, the Qur’an is a word a NOBLE messenger. possessed of power and with the Owner of the Throne, secure .Obeyed there and trustworthy. And your companion is not mad.And he has already seen Gabriel in the clear horizon.” [Surah At-Takeover: 81:19-23]
Is it meaningless like this'

I'll use this surah as my sample 2.

Every single word of the bible is the word of Yahweh himself right?

Not every word in the Bible is the Word of God BUT every single word was written as God want it. You can differentiate when God is talking and when the writer is talking.

We have some case where the writer(s) use their own initiative i.e some historical event

Atleast the Holy spirit was working for Yahweh to guide the writer right? which indirectly make yahweh responsible for every word in the bible.. True or False

You're right that's why Christian believed that Bible is the word of God THOUGH not that Yahweh dictate all mouth to mouth BUT everything was written as He wants.

For instance, Yahweh corrected some Jeremiah's wrong view of previous revelation,
corrected Job about creation e.t.c BUT THEY WERE CARRIED ALONG BY HOLYSPIRIT that's why they're talking about one subject SALVATION in one man WHO is Jesus.

Rilwayne001: This particular post/question is a deception and a lie which the owner of this article tries to insert into the Quran, Ever since i have reading the Quran i have never come accross this so called Palmer translation. To expose the lie of Sam Shamoun here i noticed that in other question in the OP He uses other translations such as Shaki and Packtall but when it comes to This particular Question why didnt he Use Picthalll or Sahih

He didnt use it because he wanted to deceive the reader into believing that Allah prayed to someone. Do you Agrree that Sam shamoun is trying to deceive us here or not? Please answer this question or i wont continue this dialogue

Muhsin Khan
He it is Who sends Salat (His blessings) on you, and His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive you), that He may bring you out from darkness (of disbelief and polytheism) into light (of Belief and Islamic Monotheism). And He is Ever Most Merciful to the believers.

Muhsin Khan
Allah sends His Salat (Graces, Honours, Blessings, Mercy, etc.) on the Prophet (Muhammad SAW) and also His angels too (ask Allah to bless and forgive him). O you who believe! Send your Salat on (ask Allah to bless) him (Muhammad SAW), and (you should) greet (salute) him with the Islamic way of greeting (salutation i.e. AsSalamu 'Alaikum).

Who is more unjust than one who invents a lie against Allah or rejects His Signs?
Now please answer the question i asked up there...Good night

Truly if one reads this translation and compare it with other translations one can say Sam Shamoun is being biased with his articles BUT does he being biased?
Absolutely No!
because Sam has dealt with the bias part of other translations like Y. Ali, Picthall e.t.c in translating the word SALAT as blessing in one article.

I'm still searching for the article once I get it I'll provide you the link to tell you that Sam never deceives his reader.

I purposely left only Mushin Khan's translation because it gives more evidence to Sam claim with the word SALAT that appears.

To you what is the meaning of SALAT?

This is how you will know that people like Yusuf Ali, Sahih try to cover up this obvious problem by rendering the word SALAT as Blessing not as Prayer.