₦airaland Forum

F00028: you're right there. if God Almighty states it in the Qur'an, its all the proof I need.

Is it God or Angel?

but that's not all. further proof that Jesus was not crucified is that: THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS CRUCIFIED.

See dellusion, no evidence hmmmm. What about Jesus' statement Himself. I can't stop laugh.

All the four gosples gave a clear account remember you support them by claiming the coming of your master from one of them.
You believe Jesus when He said, He will send your muhammad but disbelieve Him when He said He will die...

See non-christians who gave a record about Jesus death.

1. Lucian of Samosate 11. “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world."

In his statement he was trying to mock Christians but it's a great evidence that Jesus exist and was crucified. He even notice the remain eleven desciples and palestines which Bible also confirmed.

2. Seutonius
3. Julius Africanus and Tallus
4. Flavius Josephus "In The Antiquities of the Jews , book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3"
5. Cornelius Tacitus "in book 15, chapter 44 of The Annals" e.t.c

Now if non-christian can give a record about Jesu and it's the same with Bible's account, is Jesus exist and crucified or not?

try this: there is a challenge to anyone who can take all accounts of the resurrection in the four gospels, Acts, and 1 Corinthians 15, and write a single narrative in which he includes every event and detail mentioned in the separate accounts and do so without omitting anything or injecting inconsistency, contradiction, or purely speculative materials into the narrative.

I will; bring them up.

I dont have time to watch your video...but
if your man above stated his evidence for his fantastic claims please point me to it.

Why don't you have time I believe if it favours you, you will quickly do it.

mahdino: Brother how do u do, hope fine. Been quite busy, I will have much time after the ramadan and eid.

Happy ramadan kareem! Don't forget my own food and ram you can PM me with that Bro. Lol

Just a question.
Is it that you are lying or is it that u don't fully understand Jesus?

I'm not and fully understand all Jesus' statement.

No where in the bible did Jesus revived.

Well when I said revive I mean brought back to life or raised from dead. Though you might find it hard to believe Jesus is 'God'. Jesus was not the only person that died and was raised from dead in the Bible but if you can ask yourself this simple question; while Jesus' case as risen from dead being called resurrection? You will get it right that Jesus risen from dead and went straight to heaven while others like Jonah, Lazarrus e.t.c still died again, why?

If u read well with understanding u will understand Jesus when martha the sister of Lazarus said "if u where around u could have save him" Jesus said even know u shall see the GLORY of GOD.

Yes, not even in the case of Lazarus only many cases like that in the Bible. "Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am" John 8:58

And did u know he tried to avoid this kind of claim from people like u that was why after he has groaned in the spirit (seek help from God) he said father I know u always hear me but I'm saying it loud cos of the people who stood by they should know u are doing the works still people like u fail to realise it.

Even said "I and my Father are one" did you realise it also?

Act 2:22 "Jesus of Nazareth a man approve of God, by miracles, wonders and signs which God did by him which u youselves also know.

I know you will quote this because you've seen 'MAN' there.
The same Act 2:23-24 you quote said 23 "......ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:" 24 "Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death:..." Notice the bold:
I know you and your brethen always pick a verse that suit you and ignored the rest.

Hope my explanation about Jonah's dead is clear because I see you neglected my question.

What does this phrase mean to you as an english student "when my soul fainted within me I remembered the Lord:

Did Jonah remember God after his soul fainted or before his soul fainted, and what does the Jonah mean by "My soul fainted within me"?

I want honest answer to this please.

Again you people think Jesus is also a prophet, from Old Testament to NT all the past Prophet always says/(spake in second person singular) "Thus saidth the Lord", "Thy Lord said" you confirmed this when we are arguing about 'Bible as the word of God' now either narrator's voice or Jesus' voice as you might believe, throughout Jesus' statement in the four books that give account of Jesus; Jesus never said 'Thus saith thy Lord', 'Thy Lord said' but you will see something like 'Verily, verily', 'Jesus saith unto him/them'

From all His record He always spake in the position of the 'First person singular' (person speaking of himself/herself) not in the position of 'second preson singular' (person speaking on behalf of someone)

Shalom!

Frank4YAHWEH: Oh no! Me thinks there be a false revelation of a "Triune God" coming to head!

I asked Frosbel this question maybe he didn't see it, but let me ask you too.

Who gave Moses the Ten Commandment in the Old Testament, is it Yeshau or YHWH?

Pastor Olu T: Bro, I beg to differ with u on this.

Why should anyone thought it impossible? The bible said he was, for the fact that we don't understand how doesn't change anything.

Do u know why the bumble bee flies? Despite all the laws of physics that its wings are too small to carry the body and all that? The only reasons it flies is 'cos God told it so.

please don't get me wrong I didn't base my explanations on science.

You can see I expressed myself through Jonah's statement, God can do all thing that is certain.

But critically study Jonah's statement made it clear that Jonah did die.

You can read the book especially whole chapter 2.

frosbel: It takes a 'PAGAN' to believe that god is 3 and that the no.2 god descended into a baby and immediately lost all sense of awareness and divinity, lol.

Who gave Moses the Ten commandement in the OT, is it Yashua or YHWH?

F00028: sadly, that's one mistake a lot of Muslims make.

it not their business to prove who was crucified instead, or even if there was ever a crucifixion.

Is it not because your Quran against it that's why you too also in support? So it's their and yours business to know who was crucified.

the fact of the matter is Jesus the Christ, the son of Mary was not crucified or killed.

Says who and from which book?
Can you quote a verse in the Bible that asertain your point.

btw where is this happening?

Use your friend google.

thehomer: Hmm. So Jonah too was resurrected from the dead? In the belly of a fish? A fish? This just keeps getting stranger and stranger.

Did you also read that the fish vomited him?

His expirence in the belly matters alot.

mahdino: That is what the bible says
1st epistle of John 4:1 "Beloved, believe not every SPIRIT but try the SPIRITS whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world. U can see that the word spirit is used synonymously with a prophet. A true spirit is a true prophet, and a false prophet is a false prophet

You're quoting from the same people who tells you that Jesus was crucified but you say No! Hmmm......great hypocrite.

Very soon you will claim their words are narrator's voice.

Ayomivic: alright, but if there is no different in Old Testament's law and Jesus law

Get it right, the misconception comes in when you think Jesus have a law No! Jesus purpose on earth is to fulfill a promise made with Father of Faith 'Abraham'

why are we saying we are no longer under the OT law and that Jesus had nailed it to cross?

Like my post above the law given by Jesus in the OT is for correction preparing us for the fufilment time of the promise. Once the promise came the old law was abolished.

How did Jesus fulfill the law? Please explain in detail

First he came to fulfill the promise of the Messiah "saviour" so that we can be reconcilled to God.

Second, we look at what the Messiah will pass through because "without shelding of blood there's no remission" Heb 9:1-29

Third Jesus was finally nailed on the cross so that His blood will be sheld. Like a slaim lamb.

Shalom!

mahdino: Brother try to open your heart and let's reason. A little knowledge and reasoning will take u out of confusion to understanding

Do you also open your heart?

The muslim is no saying that Jesus is not God but Mohammad is God.

Ok.

The muslim is not saying that Jesus is not the son of God but Mohammad. No nothing like that.

Another version from mahdino "muslim didn't claim Jesus isn't the Son of God" finally you agree that Jesus is the Son of God. Hmmmm

The muslim in not saying that he does not believe in Jesus but Mohammad. No nothing like that.

If you believe in Jesus what make you a muslim?

This is the muslim stand those chosen by God must not say it word for word but this is what it means

Ok, let's see

@ the time of Noah he is the way the truth and the life
@ the time of Abraham he is the way the truth and the life
@ the time of Moses he is the way the truth and the life
@the time of Jesus he is the way the truth and the life

Hope you put into consideration the life spent by these people in their life's time? None of them spend over one thousand years, with recent discovary since two thousand years ago no HUMAN being has spent over 200years.

This is the time of Mohammad he is the way the truth and the life.

Brainwash, you're refering 'now' with what happened more than one thousand years ago "this is the time of Muhammad" was Muhammad still alive? Pls kindly answer with sincerity

You believe in prophet but we believe in the Son of God.

mahdino: Pls Emusan don't be a fool (advisory) how should I have run away when I created the thread and have been proving to u not from the quran but your bible that no where did Jesus die

How many verses did you quote in the Bible than to compare Matt 12:39-40 with the Jonah's story?

Now from the book of Jonah it shows that Jonah did die.

Tell me another lie.

udatso: my dear emusan....from your replies, i was able to get the following:
1. You believe in the KJV of the holy bible alone

Is KJV not a Bible?

2. You only believe in the commentaries/explanations of KJV alone

Not a commentaries/explanations but direct translation from the original script that's why most people that attack Bible used KJV not other version.

3. There are two holy spirits at work here...the holy spirit that gave you your understanding as well as that of the KJV of the bible and the holy spirit that gave others theirs OR 1 holy spirit giving thesame people of same faith different understanding.

One Holyspirit but different ministration though some people have put their own selfish interest in the interpretation of God's word 'Bible'

For the last time, let me see if i can still break my explanations into smaller pieces
1. You said if he(jonah) didnt die, then it means the prophecy wasnt fulfilled

Yes!

and i say no: if jonah didnt die there are 2 possibilities
a. Jesus didnt die too, hence the prophecy was fulfiled

Yes because Jesus said it. @bold stop claiming what is wrong the prophesy didn't fufill because God can't lie.

b. Jonah died and jesus died, hence the prophecy is false

Pure lies, Jesus quite knew well that Jonah did die because He was the one who revived his life.

2. If in a verse we saw a statement like" as he was dying he begged from the house of hell" from this statement, its a known fact that house isnt a hell, neither is the stomach of a big fish a hell

NOTE: "as he was dying" continous tense not as he died.
Ask you again list all the meaning of grave you know?

so if it isnt a hell yet it was described as so, then we look further to get the nearest explanation possible. And in this statement, we can say that the house of hell is used figuratively or literaly

Now it has become figurative to you real hypocrite.

so to know if there is anything that supports any of these assumption

How can you put assumption into a clear statement made by the victim?

hence the statement" as he was dying" which means not dead yet.

Then check that verse 7 again, "my soul fainted within me..." does this phrase resemble continous or past tense

So we both know that in order to be in hell, one has to be DEAD and not DYING.

You hit yourself with this your point again tell me the meaning of this phrase "my soul fainted within me" as an english student.

now if i ask you, when did jonah pray? An unbiased answer should be: he prayed while his life was ebbing away which means he wasnt dead.

No such comfirmation from Jonah, he clearly states it that in verse 7 My soul fainted within me and I remembered Lord..." Notice his soul has gone before he remembered God not his soul is going.[/quote]is it clear?

Emusan, please get this clear..am not trying to read meanings to the bible....i got these meanings from your christian folks who ofcourse are guided by the holy spirit and i have given you proofs.

Udatso pls get this right, it's wrong to browse the internet to interpret the Bible sit down, read, and ask HOLYSPIRIT to do it.

@eben, where are you....please i need you....perhaps you would understand better.

He has left you in your dillusion.

@eben and emusan..am sorry if i said anything offensive to your religion. It wasnt my intent

No offence in Christ, remain bless by Jesus' grace.


I only try to help you how to read Bible not on what people say.

My last question if you believe in Jesus existence and His ascension into heaven what make you disbelieve in His death?

You need to answer this question and tell yourself the truth.
Shalom!

The story of Jonah has been a confuse debate over the years by sceptics and some other religions i.e Islam because:

1. Sceptics believe that the story of Jonah in the Bible is a pure fiction of its inaccuracy with science e.g it's not possible for any man to survive under such condiction of suffocation. Simply because what most Christians has been taught was that God sustains Jonah in the belly of the great fish (though is possible for God but it wasn't so, GOD created natural laws so every thing must obey these laws and God has power to change any natural law).

2. Islam have used this Jonah's story to support their untrue story written about Jesus that "He(Jesus) didn't die because their book said so", and support it with these verses Matt 12:39-40 "when Jesus compared His death & resurrection miracle with that of Jonah's miracle.

Now the question is; was Jonah really alive in the belly of the fish?

In the book of Jonah where his story was written gave us the real clue about his life, sin, punishment, expirence at the belly, and the grace of God upon him.

Life of Jonah:- Jonah is an Hebrew man that have the fear of the Lord.

Jonah's Sin:- Jonah flee from the presence of the Lord because of God's assignment.

Punishment:- we read in Jonah 1:17 "Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.

Expirence:- "Best expirence can only be shared by the victim". If what Jonah passes through wasn't shared by Jonah himself the story might become another thing but with the help of God Jonah was able to share his own expirence.

Jonah 2:3 "For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me." This verse by Jonah tells us what he really passes through.

When Jonah was passing through this condiction he went ahead to say the position he was at that time. Jonah 2:2 "And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I,
@bold in this phrase "...out of the belly of hell cried I...." the word HELL in that phrase was translated from this hebrew word 'SHEOL' means "GRAVE-a place of the dead'. This word (sheol) was used throughout of the Old Testament, it's different from the one used in the NEW Testament that means 'LAKE of FIRE' and anywhere this word appear in the OT means 'GRAVE-a place of the dead'. So Jonah cried to God in the place of the dead(where dead people are reserved).

To be sure that Jonah did really die he went further to explain how it happened; Jonah 2:5 "The waters compassed me about, [b]even to the soul:...." @bold "even to my soul" means it took his life.

Then after Jonah died he explain where he found himself. Jonah 2:6 [b]"I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever:....."
@bold he went down to the bottoms or center of the earth where dead ones are kept.

What make him went down to the bottoms of the earth? He said; Jonah 2:7 "When my soul fainted within me..." in this phrase Jonah sincerely comfirmed that his soul leaves his body. If not he would've used a word like this when my soul is fainting (continuos tense) or when my soul is about to faint but rather he uses the past tense "when my soul fainted".

Grace of God:- God's grace never cease on those who He loves. In the last sentence of that verse 7 Jonah remembered the Lord and He prayed then his prayer went straight to the Holy Temple of God and God shew His grace upon Jonah, then last statement of verse 6 tells us what happened after his prayer "....yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O Lord my God." The word 'corruption' used in this verse was translated from the hebrew word NIPHAL which can mean; rot, spoil, ruin, decay e.t.c it might even be possible that his body has started to decayed but Omniscient God brought him back to life and commanded the fish to vomit him....WHAT A WONDERFUL GOD AND A GREAT MIRACLE.

So Jonah was not alive in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights but it pleases God to revive him.

Shalom!

basilico: Madhino says Jesus called out eli which sounds like allah on the cross. Now the quran says it was made to appear to those gathered that it was jesus who was crucified but it was not. As in God decieved those who witnessed the crucifixion that it was Jesus on the cross. To prove that jesus was not crucified muslims start talking about the masculine reporting of HE concerning Simone of Cyrene being the one who was forced to help Jesus carry the cross and later hanged on it. When its taqqiya time they say Jesus called out to Allah. Beware of muslim lies my brothers. They are allowed to lie as long as the lie advances the spread of islam. Be very wary of islam.

Very confuse set of people because their Quran said Jesus was not crucified they hold on to that Matt 12:39-40 when Jesus talks about the miracle of Jonah. They concluded Jesus didn't die whereas Jonah died in the belly of the fish. This very mahdino runaway away from very thread he created because of this issue.

mahdino: You can only prophesied what is going to come in the future.

Yea; like what Jesus did about Muhammad.

You have to believe me that the holy ghost has been existing since the time of John the baptist and Jesus.

Sure but do you know who the Holyghost is?

So that is not what Jesus is talking about when he said "when the HE the spirit of truth is come HE shall guide u into all truth for HE shall not speak of himself, whatever HE hears HE shall tell u. HE shall glorify me. The word "HE" is a masculine pronoun refering to a MAN. Check 1st epistle of John 4:2 hereby know ye the SPIRIT of God: Every SPIRIT that confesseth that Jesus christ is come in the flesh is of God. Every spirit means every prophet.

With what you put up here, I've never seen a confuse religion like this of yours.

Muslims are the one who will claim:

*Jesus is not the Son of God though they believe Jesus when He said, He will send their master but Believe not Jesus when He said He is the Son of the living God; He is the way, the truth, and the LIFE no one come to the Father exccept by Him.

*They believe Jesus' statement when He compared His miracle with that of Jonah but disbelieve Him when He Himself said He will die.

*They choose a verse that favour them in the Bible and call the rest Narrator's voice.

*They posted 101 contradiction verses in the Bible due to lack of understanding of the scripture, yet the same contradictory Book has been their back bone for the coming of their Master.

*They believe the Bible you and I are reading today has been copied right many times, due to this; people have inserted their own words into Bible but believe only those verses that favour them was not touched.

*They believe Christian and Islam serve the same God and believe God can't lie but still went ahead to reject this saying "THIS IS MY BELOVED SON HEAR HIM"

What a confuse set of people.

Ayomivic: 1. What is the purpose of Old Testament law?

The purpose of the OT laws is:
Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels inthe hand of a mediator.

@bold-those law are given for correction before Jesus will come.

2. Which flaw did God sees in Old Testament law that made God sent Jesus to save us?

Nothing like flaw in God's work because He's an All-knowing God. According to the verse above the laws was given for our correction for Jesus to come and abolished the law.

3. What is the law of of Jesus Christ?

The OT law.

4 In what ways do the law of Jesus different to the mosaic law or Old Testament law?

Those Mosaic laws are Jesus law also no different. You might miss it up by thinking during the time of Jesus law was given but no such thing but Jesus came as to fulfill the promise(law).

5. What love and grace did God show to us in New Testament in different to Old Testament law?

The only difference there is that, God as a 'covenant keeping God' fulfill His promise in the NT.

Nice questions will reply when I get home.

-

mahdino: Emusan the words from "the belly of sheol".

It means what?

U know i won't be suprised one day there would be a version that will remove the word belly and say Jonah was dead and in hell when he prayed to suit their believe that Jesus too was dead.

Well you may find that but not from me go through all my post in NL I usually quote from KING JAMES VERSION.

Going back to the discussion from the belly of sheol does not mean grave or hell.

It means what? this is what I call great hypocrite. twisting the truth to justify self claim.

You have to use your God given intelligence.

That's what I'm using on this thread to reply you and your brethen.

All what Jesus was pointing out was a sign (miracle) if Jonah was dead then there is no miracle in the scene.

Great one from mahdino coming back to life from dead position is not a miracle..hmmmmm anyway not only you do that you've collegues.

The miracle is from deep soffocation and heat (now that is real hell) in the belly of the whale u cried out for help.

Then what happen as Jonah was soffocated at the belly of the fish for three days? Remember soffocation means lack of AIR.

From the belly of sheol is a figure of speech describing that when one is under heat and suffocation it real hell to anyone in that kind of sittuation.

Lol.. now the belly of fish become figure of speech to mahdino does it make any sense? when Jonah himself decleared "out of the belly of hell cried I" and where the word of HELL translated from is Sheol used throughout in the OT as GRAVE 'a place of the dead'.

Can't u see that the words were together "belly of sheol".

I see dear but only if you can also see that the BELLY represent where the SHEOL happened.

Is HELL located in the belly of a fish.

I believe you're not mixing it up for the translation of 'LAKE OF FIRE' in the New Tesatment?
This is what you missed anywhere you see the word HELL in the Old Testament it means GRAVE a place of the dead....is it clear now?

NO the condition there is not plesant so it is hell.

Mahdino can you define or tell me the meaning of HELL?

When I say u are in deep shit or from frying pan to fire I don't mean u are in fire.

You're right but what if I now tell you in my own language that yesterday I was in a deep of shit, and you later find out that what I mean with my deep of shit is I was very hungry. will you call it figurative or real expirence?

Pls read the bible with the centextual meaning ther is no need because u want to claim Jonah is dead then we start to translate words to suite us. The only miracle was for a man to be dead in deep shit and he did not die thereby ALIVE

See Mahdino telling me to read Bible with contextual mind, how do you read your own Bible?

Lol..therefore ALIVE....hmmm


Ok if you didn't take that verse 2 as Jonah died, let see the rest of the verse and know who is reading with contextual mind or not.


Jonah 2:3-7 3 For You cast me into the deep, Into the heart of the seas, And the floods surrounded me; All Your billows and Your waves passed over me.

This verse talks about how GOd dealt with him(Jonah).

4 Then I said, ‘I have been cast out of Your sight; Yet I will look again toward Your holy temple.

5 The waters surrounded me, even to my soul; The deep closed around me; Weeds were wrapped around my head.

@bold notice the phrase "even to my soul" what does it mean to you?

6 I went down to the moorings of the mountains; The earth with its bars closed behind me forever; Yet You have brought up my life from the pit, O Lord, my God.
The whole of this verse cancel all your argument if only you can open your heart on it.
see "earth compassed him" have you ever heard that the place of the dead are at the centre of the earth? find it out.

7 “When my soul fainted within me, I remembered the Lord; And my prayer went up to You, Into Your holy temple.

This last verse killeth it all...at this phrase @bold "when my soul fainted within me,..." Here, he didn't say my soul is fainting (continous tense) or my soul is about to faint (Unlike assumptions made by @Udatso above) but my soul fainted (past tense)-which means it happened before Jonah prayed "and my prayer went up to you.

Tell yourself the truth with these declearations from Jonah himself, did Jonah die or not?

Shalom!

I'll be so happy if this can strickly be taken into Nigeria's law.

I hate seeing women being maltreated.

mahdino: Brother how are u doing, I hope fine?

I'm fine by God's grace and you?

I have been very busy. Just checked in for some mins.

Eayahhhh, hope isn't too hectic?

I saw wher u said that u asked me why should life body be but in a tomb cos is like a grave.

No isn't like a grave, it is a grave indeed.

I did not know u don't know how the tomb of Jesus is.

I know a, it a sepulchre

The tomb is not like the grave because is a big roomy chamber belonging Joseph of Arimathe a very rich influential Jew who can afford to cutve out of a rock 5ft wide,7ft high 15ft deep with a vegetable around one can stay there comfortably without dying.

Once you believe the scripture about Joseph an Arimathaea then you should also believe it these:
Matt 27:64-66 "Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day, lest his disciples come by night, and steal him away,and say unto the people, He is risen from the dead: so the last error shall be worse than the first.
65 Pilate said unto them, Ye have a watch: go your way, make it as sure as ye can.
66 So they went, and made the sepulchre sure, sealing the stone, and setting a watch.

In verse 66 it was even the pharisees that employed those guards.

And with the discriptions of the Bible it shows that the sepuchre was far to the main city.

Udatso, has taken time to explain to u like a teacher and a school child, but u still go ahead to say that he has not got the spirit,

Is it by twisting HELL(sheol) the place of the dead to another thing? Remember you ask me to prove to you ealier why the Jesus' statement was not the same as Jonah's miracle. When I finally show it udatso begin to twist the word sheol. You also you can't get hebrew dictionary of King James version to see the real meaning of Hell used in the Old Testament. If you or udatso present this from either of the two and is different I will welcom your point.

then who has got the spirit among the christiandom all the churches and denomination are going in different direction and still claim they have the spirit.

Many mystery about God, Jesus, and Christian is over the world today but see what the Bible says;

1 Corin 3:10-13 10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

So the foundation has been laid even for people that misinterpreted the Bible and every man's work shall be tested by fire.
2Corin 2:17 "For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ."

What is the spirit doing to u that u can't understand simple explanations?

Just provide me with the real meaning of sheol from hebrew dictionary or KJ Bible dictionary if you truely know that God hates lie.

RoyPCain: @Emusan; Thank God your name is not Emasuen.

what does the above connote?

your response to me lean so much on what John said in the Gospel, rather than what Jesus could possibly have said.

Which one is Jesus' word and John's word?

The same John's word you used to claimed the coming of your master, don't forget.

No God worships God. Anyone that worships God is not God.

Meaning what?

It is impossible to believe that se.xual intercourse is sinful

Get it right is not a sin but every seed it produced is corrupt because of the first Man (Adam)

and God decided to create almost all of us through it,

You're right!

except Adam, Eve and Jesus.

Correct.

Yet Eve, the woman is blamed for all the sins in the Bible; meaning the first sin.

Pure lies, Bible made it clear that by one man(Adam) sin entered into the world because of DISOBEDIENT Rom 5:12-21

All blames was put upon Adam because Adam was able to cordinate his home but he didn't that's why God ask Adam first before Eve and Adam's curse was more than that of Eve.

I see that you think Jesus is not sinful because no se.xual intercourse happened, though Mary was over shadowed and came upon in power.

He didn't sin at all until when He carried you and I sins as a result of Adam's disobedient on the cross, and plenty verses in the Bible supported His sinless life.

Are you familiar that many children are born now without sex.ual intercourse?

You miss it by thinking I against intercourse. Yes ofcourse but man's fluid must involve that's why same sexmarriage can't produce any child.

are they not sinless if this is your reason for being sinless?

Will man's fluid involve or not?

If Jesus was in the womb of the 'woman' but Adam was not in the womb of the woman and not a woman, yet you think he is sinful,

Gen 1:31 "And God saw every thing that He made, and, behold, it was very good......"
According to the Bible every thing God created from begin was perfect including Adam and Eve untill the disobedient of Adam. In the book of Romans 8:22-23 shows us how the whole universe surfer from the sin of Adam until now. Adam and Eve was perfect in their creation but polluted due to their disobedient.

how can you not say biblical Jesus is sinful

Because He(Jesus) was not of this world.

with him going against the rule not to call anyone fool,

Is that not a good rule?

his cursing of people of his tribe, including insulting his disciples, his downgrading other tribes,

Show me the verse in the Bible where all these things were written.

his asking God he was forsaken?

Yes! because he bore the sin of the whole world and God's eyes couldn't behold iniquity.

what about his rudeness to his mother and why should anyone knowing his fate be begging when he knows it already?

Show me the verse. @bold whose fate? Clearify yourself sir.

Whoever God rejects his supplication can not to be assumed sinless or had the attention of God. God was not listening to him, it means.

Wrong conception, Jesus didn't supplicate on the cross(unless the time He prayed for those crucified Hiam--what a lovely person) He only asked why God has to took His face of Him because before a saint die he/she must see God but Jesus on the other hand carry the sin of the world which won't allow God to show Him His face and what happen at the cross shows how God hate sin, to the extent of forsaken His own begotten Son.

the Creator does not need power from any to create.

Who dare to withstand God's power? Omnipotent God.

Remember when the Bible says God says lets Us create man? no one answered because He was announcing His intention to the angels. Jesus was not there, the reason he did not say a word. The true statement of God is that "I Am going to create man for the earth".

I like this your cook up story, the same Bible says "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God, and the word is God"....verse 3 All things were made by Him....verse 14 and the word was made flesh(Jesus) so Jesus is the one who created everything.

Adam does not look like God and nothing of God is in our father Adam [as] except what created to put in him; the soul which is the spirit of man.

How did you know that, did you pause time and travel to beginning? Anyway you're right but the IMAGE simply means In wisdom, knowledge, and understanding but in a finite one so that's why human being are distinct from animals.

I was ban without any offence for my post above, I would've replied your post.

udatso: please refer to the link to see other meanings of sheol beside grave and the verses.

The best place to see the true meaning of the word SHEOL is King James Bible-KJ was original tranlation of Bible's word. Get a King James open the back and check Bible Dictionatry you'll see the real meaning of HELL there not what people have interpreted to suit their selfish interest. And if you search this on google "meaning of Sheol in hebrew or get Hebrew dictiontionary" I believe you will see the real answer rather than someone's interpretation (only if you're seaking for the truth sha)

So my dear esan, its up to you to chose one and ignore the other, either way, its a diificult choice to make. No mata how hard you try, if you prove shoel to mean he died, then what happens to the other verse where he prayed while he was silt alive

All the prayers of Jonah was rendered in HELL He never alive. Even in a norm-sense is it possible for a man to pass through such conditions and still alive? Most Sceptic have used Jonah's story to counter Bible for unscientific accuracy that it's not possible for Jonah to survive they concluded it's a cook up story without study and understand the real message in that Book. Though some Christians Elders accept that Jonah was alive in the belly of fish when people are not well familiar with Hebrew Dictionary. but with the help of hebrew dictionary and Holyspirit Bible begins to get clearer to people.

atleast eben knew when to back off with dignity than trying to turn a spade into shovel

When you and your co keep perambulating in one place he rest is case not because of what you think.

i invite you to islam the only faith accepted in the sight of Allah. I leave you with the saying of Allah: And say: Truth hath come and falsehood
hath vanished away. Lo! falsehood is ever
bound to vanish. Quran 17::81

Well you're welcome Mr. Udatso but Jesus who has found my life, Who I can feel His presence of being alive through Holyspirit, who speak with me everyday can't allow that.

Jesus is still alive I can testify and boast on that with the help of the HOLYGHOST.

Shalom!

udatso: emusan..why are you behaving like this....i made two points about sheol and jonahs prayer while his life was 'ebbing away'..u only responded to sheol..so i take it you have no reply for the other one

The sheol and Jonah's point are the same that's why I answered that way.

so you have to believe that he was alive while in the belly of the great fish

No! He wasn't alive get your fact from Jonah's statement "out of the belly of HELL cried I"

What is Hell? Hell(sheol) is place of dead used throughtout the OT.

i am the one asking you to believe me but believe your bible....giving meanings to the bible is something i wont do....if you observed my links i gave where all from bible commentaries online....it wasnnt done by muslims, it was done by christians who are scholars of the bible

I know but grave in hebrew used in Old Testament through out was translated from the word Sheol meaning a place of dead no other meaning. You know some bodies have interpret Bible to suit their selfish interest that's why I don't quote any word partent to Bible from web I use Bible as Spirit leadth.

now back to sheol....if i gave you my own bible dictionary here with the page number, you would call me a liar..so i gave you something online and you still wont believe....what type of person are you...?

Well bring it up but any where you found Sheol in the OT refers to a place of dead.

Sheol is found in the Bible sixty-five times. It
is translated “the pit” three times, “the
grave” thirty-one times, and “hell” thirty-one times. Hades is used eleven times, being rendered “hell” ten times and “grave” once.
Adding to the confusion is that two other words are also translated hell in the New
Testament. These are Tartarus, which is found once and Gehenna, which is used twelve times.
The simple way to solve this objection is to examine the use of the word "hell" throughout the Bible. In the Old Testament,
"hell" is always translated from the Hebrew word sheol, which means simply "the unseen state.”

The unseen state? Is a liar Mr Udatso. No other meaning to sheol used in OT than place of the dead.

We read, "Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his
God out of the fish's belly. . . . out of the belly of hell [sheol] cried I" Jonah 2:1-2.

"Out of the belly of (the dead) sheol cried I" no other translation.

It would be difficult to imagine anything akin to fire
in connection with a cold sea monster.

This is where you miss it, I said throughout the OT sheol(HELL) was used as place of the dead not a burning fire. Hmmmm!

The marginal reading of this text gives "the grave" as the translation of hell, or sheol.
Sheol is very frequently translated "grave." Both good and bad go there.

This is where you short yourself, again HELL (sheol) in the OT translated "the place of the dead" throughout then will Jonah's Hell excluded?

"What man is he that lives, and shall not see death? Shall
he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave [sheol]?" Ps. 89:48. The godly man job said, "If 1 wait, the grave [sheol] is mine
house." job 17:13. The psalmist wrote,” The wicked shall be turned into hell [sheol]." Ps. 9:17. www.helltruth.com/q-a/angels-cast-down-to-hell.aspx

Again HELL (sheol) in the OT used thourghout is a place of the dead will Jonah's hell different?

With all the verses you quoted just add the real meaning to my point.


NOTE: Hell used in OT was translated from sheol "a place of the dead" throughout the Old Testament, it is NT that you will find only different meaning to HELL.

Jesus couldn't make the mistake of comparing His death with Jonah's miracle. Jesus quite knew Jonah died but was brought forth from his dead place by the grace of God.


Mr. Udatso is it clear now?

No problem what ever you believe about Bible

udatso: from this verses..it is clear that jonnah made his prayer when he was not dead yet or we can equally say, when he was about to die or when he was dying but the fact remains, he wasnt dead when he made the prayer

What does this Phrase signify "...out of the belly of HELL cried I"?

Remeber Jonah comfirmed it himself to be sure that he cried from "grave" SHEOL no assumption as you put it up stop coming with assumption. That's another way to twist the truth.

so my dear, if he wasn't dead as at d time of prayer, then he was alive...am coming to your second point of SHEOL

Jonah died stop perambulating and accept the truth. Jonah's statement is true Like Jesus' statement.


If you claim Jonah didn't die according to that verse 2 you're a real hypocrite.

Like I told Mahdino nobody is forcing you to accept Christ but just agree the way Christian preach the truth of their Book. If a Christian quote a verse from Quran, Muslim will say they don't understand it that's why they interpreted it that way. Likewise Christian if you really want to get the real clue of Bible's meaning pray for the descendant of Holyspirit.

Like Mahdino he claimed Jesus was put in a tomb, I asked him is it possible to put someone who didn't die in a tomb(as to bury alive)? He couldn't answer.

On SHEOL......translated HELL is a place of dead but you said is a GRAVE, see the meaning of grave:

A place of burial for a dead body, typically a hole dug in the ground and marked by a stone or mound

a. An excavation for the interment of a corpse.
b. A place of burial. 2. Death or extinction:

if you have any meaning aside this to grave let me know.

NOTE: in hebrew is simply means place of dead no other meaning.

But the truth is Jesus fully aware that Jonah died and was brought back to life by God's grace.

Shalom!

RoyPCain: Jesus is no son of God, except you dream it up.

You believe Jesus when He said His miracle will be like that of Jonah but deny His word when He said it plainly that He's a Son of the Living God. Hmmmmm! Very pathetic.

And Jesus is not gonna judge any world because the Creator does that.

Yes because He is the creator, John 1:1-14

You are trying too hard man. relax and smell the flowers. The creator of those is the Only One Who has control of the "HOUR" and the Judgment is all HIS.

I like this your statement. "By Him all things was created, without Him nothing was created"

legal intercourse is not sinful or a sin you freak.

Sure! But who so ever come through this method is a sinner, that's why Jesus leave a free sinfulless life.

it is part of worship. so how is worship sinful or a sin when you are commanded to it?

No Jesus created it. It is just a union.

your understanding of spousal needs and relationship is warped, even though Yahweh told Adam and Eve that they are legal for each other.

coreect.

maybe you look at everything in this singular focus; whatever Jesus did is right. what others do is sinful even if it is exactly the way Jesus did it toward the same purpose.

He act as He received of Father, and He is not of this world. That's what make Him different.

That is pure deception because i asked what sin did John commit, yet was great enough to confirm Jesus is an adult according to the tribal order of the the jewsih people?

And heavenly being in human's nature.

what sin did Zacharia commit? What sin did Elizabeth commit? What sin did Mary commit? What sin did the mother of Mary commit?

They were all born through sperma and possess sinful nature of human.

What sin did Job commit who was not a contemporary of Jesus so you can't claim Jesus rub off on his contemporary? and baptism washes sin, so no sinless will need baptism. those baptized are washed clean of sin by the baptism, until they begin to acquire sin, again.

You miss it John's baptism was a baptist of repentance i.e knowing only one God. If Jesus that want to reconcile us to God didn't give example how the testimony of God "this is my beloved Son hear Him" will proclaim.

Another confuse thing from my brethen is claiming that Jesus talk about Muhammad as "Holyspirit"

My question is if truly Muslim can trust that Jesus statement why ignoring the rest of His words.

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. Before jump into comforter as SAW.

John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 8:23 And He said unto them, Ye are from beneath(Earth); I am from above(Heaven): Ye are of this world; I am not of this world.

Even Jesus said it clearly that He is the Son of God.

mahdino: U see all of this explanation and log stories will not solve the issue u are just arguing without reason pls don't look at it as if one is trying to score points.
You as a christian explain to us matt: 12:38-40 Jesue said he is going to be like Jonah that he will not die for three days and three nights. I did not put this verse in the bible. Pls u as a scholar simply explain to us. Pls pls pls go staight to the point and explain to us. How is Jesus like Jonah?

See my reply to @Udatso above.

I dare you come and refute that point. Seek salvation where the real salvation is.

And stop teaching those children that Jesus didn't die since you've know the truth now.

Shalom!

udatso: @Eben and emusan
now back to the topic....both of you have quoted verses which you claim that he was dead in the 3days and 3nights....

Yes you're right

equally mahdinho also brought a verse from the bible which is even a direct statement from jesus(pbuh)

But also ignoring the rest of statement by same Jesus.

that his sign will be that of jonah and we all know jonah wasn't dead in the belly of the whale

You're lying sir @bold.

in a book of God, we shouldnt see contradictions like this

No contradiction at all, just misunderstanding of the scriptures.

both of you bringing your verses to prove that he died doesn't erase the prophesy of jesus (pbuh);

Never never He's word remain the only one that is true.

if you choose that he died, then it means you are saying that jesus's prophecy was wrong and we both know he can't lie

Anytime I'm discusing Bible with a Muslim I always like us to reach this point before I show you the real mistake that your Elders make to believe Jesus never died.

the if you choose that he didn't die, then that means attaining salvation by john 3:16 becomes false which removes the whole concept of christianity

For sure Jesus died because before He was born it has been prophesied both His birth and death.

and either way, if you choose one, it means the bible wasn't inspired by God since it has faults

Bible is the word of God. Thank God you even know that.

God isn't a God of confussion and God's work is perfect, wether it was done through a prophet or a human, there is stil that uniqueness which is ITS PERFECT....every religion accepts this simple fact...so my dear emusan and eben..i leave you both to make your choice

Wao... Thanks again for this God's attribute you mention "God is perfect"

Now let me tell you this and if you can open your heart to receive this truth you will know Muslim scholars made a great mistake to try to claim Jesus didn't died and choose a verse to support their false claim.

This is the real story of Jonah's miracle inwhich Jesus made reference to.

Jonah 2:1-2 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly,
2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

@bold this phrase occur "and he heard me; out of the belly of HELL cried I"

Hell in Hebrew language was translated from the word SHEOL which means a place usually refers to a world of the DEAD with this in that verse 2 of that Jonah, it really shows that Jonah did die only that God's grace was upon him.

Stop taking one verse from Bible, study the whole scripture verse by verse and draw your conclusion.

Now according to Udatso and co brethen, if God can't lie, perfect and inspired Bible.

If Jesus died for you and me. Do you still need to believe another name again?


God have mercy on us all!

Shalom....

mahdino: We believe even matt: 12:39 its a narration but is a fact cos its correspond with an outer source and that is how u cross examine facts.

You disappointed me with this your statement. So Muslim believe is a work of narration only a fact from Jesus while the rest of narrations are lies and not fact.

You know what you want....keep deluding yourself.

The verse for as jonah was alive in the belly of the whale so shall the son of man be in the heart of the earth means he will be alive in the tomb. Not dead for three days and go to hell.

How did Jesus roll the great stone of the tomb?

Even for you to believe that Jesus was put in the tomb shows that you don't know what you're saying.

How can they put someone who was not nailed to the cross in a tomb?

Do they catch Jesus alive and put Him in the tomb(like bruried alive)? What can I call this self?

I did not mention the statement luciana of samosata because like I have said the words of Jesus is better than the words of billion professors, kings or servants.

Remember samosata is not a Christian so he can't bear a good record of Christian, in his statement he try to mock christians but it's a great evidence that Jesus exists and crucified.

See many words of Jesus you ignored but hold on to only one just to justify your falsehood religion.

John 14:6 Jesus said unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.


John 14:15 if ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 15:22 if I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

John 4:24 God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Mathew 17:9 and as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 10:11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. 17 Therefor doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Who is the truth? Jesus!(John 14: 6 above) 42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; naither came I of myself, but He sent me.

John 8:23-24 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath(Earth); I am from above(Heaven): Ye are of this world; I am not of this world. 24 I said therefor unto you, that ye shall die in your sins; for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
And many more of His words

I know you will still claim that they're narrators voice but anything that will make you accept Matt 12:39-40 you should also accept all this verses unelse you're an hypocrite.

We believe he is one of the mighty messengers of God so he can not lie or change his promise, if he had said he is not going to die then what right would someone has to pronounce him dead.

I so much love the bold, now that you know Jesus can't lie or change his promise; how did you see all those quoted verses above?

I told you stop this brainwash of yours it looks rideculous "we(Muslim) believe......" hmm!

Jesus said He is the Son of God, you said no we believe He's a messanger of God.

Jesus said He will die and rise third day, you said no; We believe He didn't die but was taken to heaven

Is it the word of Jesus you should believe or what Muslim believe about Him after you know Jesus can't lie?

Muslims believe Jesus was taken to heaven, is it Jesus who proceeded out from God and return to heaven you should believe or Muhammad who only received message from Allah, died, buried in the grave, and didn't rise?