₦airaland Forum

starlingleanets:
Backup ur answer with the Scripture alone.

You don't need scripture for this
Yes, you can live a day without sin
Worst case to achieve this is to sleep all day

johnydon22:
1st timothy chapter 2 from verse 11 to 15
A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.
i do not permit any woman to teach or assume authority over a man;she must be quiet. for Adam was formed first then Eve. and Adam was not the one deceived it was the woman. it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. but women will be saved through childbearing if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety

Where you once a Christian?
if you were, then I'll explain it
if not, there would be no need for me to

aurenflani:
What baffles me is the hypocracy of Nigerian christians who always hide behind "civilization" to casigate Islam and Muslims whenever something negative happens from within the Muslim community! Mainwhile, if it happens in their christiandom, you find Muslims either ignoring the bandwagon or making passive comments.

Muslims do not blame Paul, the Pope or Jesus. Aronically, the christians would gladly go as far as insulting the Holy Prophet on whos advice the Muslims respect Jesus and his mothe Mary!

Your thread was shared to me by someone I follow on nairaland
Please permit me to respond to you and help you address your baffle

All humans are intrinsically the same
however our cultures and physical attributes shape the way we respond to our environment
In saying culture, I also include religion

What this means is that if you were a christian you would tend to do the same thing that you now accuse christians of doing
if those Christians that castigate islam were Muslims, they're also be passive and moan about insults by Christians

If you listen in on Christian arguments, you would notice that we even tackle Atheists who mock our God and his Christ to our face
you guys cant even stand it, if it is done to you.
But you notice that we don't tolerate folks talking ill about our men of god

Bottomline is that we are not hiding behind any civilization.
We just don't have such restraining rules as yours in our christian culture, whereas you guys do have in yours.

@naijasinglegirl

I spent my growing up years with lots and lots of chickens
the benefits were lots of chicken legs and eggs to eat

With regards to its business potential, you hit the nail on the head
lots of death from disease and even weather, theft by gatemen and those that scale the fence,
dogs and snakes having a field day trying to steal the chickens and the eggs

And then, middlemen pricing your chicken at ridiculous prices
If you decide to sell your chickens directly to consumers
they suddenly become pricing champions

After learning from my mums life time of chicken scandals
I think the best strategy (which I was going to try if I had dared the poultry business) is to have an eatery and confectionary that is supplied by your poultry

The trick would be to kill the chickens once you've broken even with some profits
i.e, you subtract the cost of the chicks as babies and the feeding + labour till date
from the market value of the size of the chicken

Nigerians like hard chicken a lot
so you grill them en masse till they are hard before using in your restaurant

You keep some to sell alive to consumers
the ones you keep are those you notice are fast growers

With such a strategy, you'd do quite well in your poultry business

@frosbel

try this: https://www.nairaland.com/1797193/attempt-coceptualize-differentiate-betwee-god

Its quite rough
I theorize that the father has no beginning, but that the Word does have a beginning
that the word was the first tangible conceptualization of God through which all other concepts proceed

knowledge is power

2 people open the same book
but one makes a first class, while the other barely manages a 3rd class while even spying the entire text book

we are no longer in the times when scripture was hid from congregation

if one believes he should help God receive and the other believe that he should be the one to give his all
and yet to both read the same book and both chase away those who advise some caution

wetin concern you
afterall, if God does reward them they aint gonna share with you
so why be

ooman:
Perhaps you can have a glimpse of how I feel about your god. He died in me long ago too.

You are a free agent
free to make your choices

I do not condemn anyone that chooses to step back and do some thinking
God or nature gave us brains for a reason

Better peace without the knowledge of God
than strife, bitterness and hatred with the convoluted Knowledge of a God

My own knowledge gives me more peace than I have ever had
.....bless you or something like that

frosbel:
Question for Team esere826 ;

If you believe donkeys and snakes talk as depicted in the bible and you see nothing wrong with it, why do you constantly mock Muslims who believe that king Solomon had a conversation with talking ants ?

Wrong team you placed me dude
I do not condemn muslim beliefs
it would be like me pointing four fingers at myself

The only thing I condemn is the strong tendency for a number of them I know to guard their beliefs dogmatically compared to chritians
I also condemn same attititude from christian who are dogmatic especially concerning their MOG

ooman:
Perhaps, but then, your whole life would have been based on mere assumptions. It would have been a total waste.

If I die to find out there is a god, then my work shall be used in my judgement. I will be judged fairly because I did not subscribe to any god while on earth, but open to the possibility of any god.

If you die to find out Yahweh is not the true god, its a straight to hell for you. Because you already lost the bet.

Your beliefs make you a gambler.

hell?
i am not into that line of gist when it comes to my relationship with God

But if there is indeed a God different from the one I connect with, and he feels i deserve hell
well, we go plenty naw

Jokes aside, I am not bothered about hell
that fear was long ago killed in me
maybe that's why I am able to chat with you guys like this

johnydon22:
they are many of them out there but i suppose u dont know.
you see what i mean u dont even care to know cus u choose to ignore it and go for the jewish one which doesnt even concern you...

stop being a cry baby
you're so sure you know me better than myself

....interesting

ooman:
You are still not getting it. There could be no harm done, but belief is only a belief.
Its a lie, a delusion, an abstract. Its a temporary feel-good drug that you are probably addicted to.

Believing that a god can avert the crash does not mean it will happen. Why not spend your last minute thinking about the love of your life than wasting it on a delusion called faith?

What if God exists?
What if God does not exist?

I think those two questions are relevant

Our beliefs cannot change whether God exists or does not
but it can affect how we approach our world and those around us

Weah96:
Correction: the being you think started everything is different from the beings that others worship as the creator. We know this to be true because there are different manuals which could not have all come from the SAME being. So the atheist is left with the unpleasant choice of selecting the appropriate being from a multitude of other beings. Points 0 to 10 are irrelevant if everyone is presumably facing some form of punishment from one of these beings.

Would Allah approve of your activities? Would Krishna?

When conversing with me
do not assume that I belong to the typical crew you would usually argue with
I was not talking about worship here or any particular God.

I was querying the disbelieve in miracles and saying if God exists then it is possible
as long as I believe he exists, believing in miracles is no biggie to me

As long as you believe he does not exist, then you possibly can't believe in miracles either

frosbel:
provide historical proof that this event happened as described, i.e the sea parted on both sides just like in prince of egypt.

I have none
Neither do I have proof of the evolutionary journey of man.

But jokes aside.
You've watched Exodus the movie?
Somehow I like the narrative of how the sea parted
I am not saying that is what happened, but I like its logical approach of God being present, but yet being logically explained

Weah96:
The incredible part is that the Biblical account is NOT TRUE.

Ok

ooman:
Do you know how many times you mentioned "believe"? I could not even count.

@Bold - Since its all belief, you can argue anything...

But be advised that belief is not reality. You are therefore only wasting your time.

I said belief not FACT
This has no negative influence on me ...it probably has on others
If I want to cross the sea, I'd take a boat and not try walking
if I am in plane that is going to crash
and there is no scientific method available to stop the crash
what worse harm would it do me to believe that it can be averted by the mighty harm of God?

johnydon22:
...
And yes i know you are not an isrealite but their history and myths makes a whole more sense to u than urs.
you study their history more and ignore and neglect urs thats an utter shame.
When will africa wake up and seek its root

I didn't go in search of Jewish history
I am too lazy for that
it came down handed in a book to me
So did those of others

Now, if you write a popular Africa root book and make it available off the shelf
why should I DISDAIN FROM READING IT?

Weah96:
You were clearly referring to the exodus account of the bible. I wouldn't want to see you backtrack now. 600,000 people in one small desert for half a century and they left not one piece of evidence behind? Were they sleeping on the sand?

yes I was
but I couched it in a language of uncertainty because I am yet to read other accounts of the event
but I strongly believe that isrealites who had been a nation [collection of people) for a long time
could have been normadic and had an immigration path through or from Egypt which was once a world center

What is incredible about that?

frosbel:
I still hold the bible as a book with more truth than lies, however it is very difficult to believe all the doctrines and stories I have learnt without an intensive exercise of due diligence carried out on each of them.

Why ? Because when you lie to me once trust goes out of the window and I will from that point on have to examine and re-examine anything/everything you say to avoid falling into another doctrinal quagmire.

Common sense I think

You're perfectly in order
trust once broken is add to amend

I guess the question is who broke your trust?
Is it those that wrote the bible, who were probably not thinking about you when they wrote it?
Is it God? I am yet to hear of him saying the Bible is the complete truth of everything
Is it Jesus who did not bother writing a book?
Is it Paul who was writing his own narrative and sharing with his congregation?

Weah96:
No thinking person today believes that the exodus was an ACTUAL EVENT. Even RABBIS are finally telling the truth, that the thing was a fictional story. Better learn about African exodus from somewhere, and leave the Jewish myth alone.

http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Judaism/2004/12/Did-The-Exodus-Really-Happen.aspx#

Neither agreeing nor disproving the narrative because I have not investigated it
In this instance, I purposely chose the word "immigration" over "Exodus"
for a reason such as this

ooman:
See self-delusion. Why do you people just enjoy to lie to yourself all in the name of belief?

By faith, you believe that a virgin was pregnant, and this is proof that a virgin was actually pregnant. SMH

What you've said is true alright
i.e that proof can not rest on mere belief

Although It was not me you were responding to, but considering that I can be reluctantly bunched into the 'superstitious' crew ...reluctant because even me dey tire for my co travellers
while you thankfully belong to the logical camp but on the other side
let me intervene a little to explain what you call our self delusion for the incredulous.


we (and I guess other religions) believe that the start of everything was initiated by a being
Lets call that initiation point, point O

We believe that this being created a logical process that drives from 0 through 10 all the way to infinity or the end.
We believe that that this being is able to and does intervene in points in the system journey after point 0.

Now, if we've believed the beings intervention in point 0, we are not swayed when you guys tell us that he did not or is not able to intervene in other points after point 0. We do have different narratives/views of how the being is able to intervene in the journey through time.

Since we believe he can intervene, we find it credible to believe stories we were told of his intervention even if we did not witness it. We call this miracles, signs and wonders.

Now, your goal on the other side should not be to concentrate on points after point 0 except you want to credibly show us how we are being deceived by men that say that they are able to cause the being to intervene. If you do show us this, it weakens our trust on these men, but we still seek the being.

What you should concentrate your efforts on is to prove to us that point 0 never occurred with the beings input in the first place. If the being did not do it, then he is powerless in the process thereafter.
For now, all we have from you guys is the big bang theory.
This just like the belief in God does not address the question "what was before this?"

We on our side can even better argue that God being spiritually infinite, was always.
The same cannot be said of matter which produced the big bang

So we do have a logic to our madness for now
So strike the root and only then will our edifice crumble

johnydon22:
So guy narrating all the events concerning the jewish myth in a holy book. all the jewish history and myths and legends are all god breathed.. na u know

Dude there are some aspects of the bible that even the most scientific of persons way smarter than you would consider as credible.
For example, the Israelites immigrating from Egypt or being taken captive
Others they would dismiss as myth for example Moses stretching out his staff to the sea and parting it

So why would you call everything a myth?
Does that come across as sound reasoning even to the most unbelieving

plaetton:
Spoken like a politician.
Being a private citizen, why does Frosbel need to be politically correct in his soul searching?

If you walk into a park and see you girlfriend in a tight embrace with a hunk
You could either shout "cheating beaitch" or "what's happening here?"

If as an aggressive person you say the first, the tendency is that you knock out her teeth immediately
and the hunk knocks you out completely

If on the other hand, you say the second, there is a chance that she would say "na my long lost cousin oo"
and you and the hunk would be chilling over some cold beer in some hours from then

Your words affect your thinking and doing process and so does your thinking process affect the words you speak

plaetton:
......You, just like the fraudster Paul, are saying that as long as mogs are doing useful work for your imaginary god, we should all give them a break, look the way ....

.

uhnnn
u read my write up and arrived at this.
Clearly, we're on different wavelengths in both spiritual and secular dimensions

cheers

@ frosbel

And finally by brethren

Its because of this my belief that I am unperturbed by our modern day men of God. both the good and bad
If the bible is written by imperfect men but is God breathed
I believe that despite some of the shenanigans and inconsistencies of our MOG's as long as they are God-breathed on
they do serve at least some useful purpose for God

..continued

@ Frosbel


I like you also question how folks arrived at selecting some books and discarding others to form the bible
I also imagine if the selection process was to have taken place now, how men like Chris, Oyedepo, TD jakes, idahosa, Benny Hinn, The Pope etc
would have influenced the selection according to their own views

I read with amusement when to quiet curios folks, the bible guardians refer the the book of Timothy which says that "All scripture is God-breathed"
It is amusing because the writer was not referring to the bible as we now know it.

But interestingly that is the same scripture on which i stand on when reconciling biblical inconsistencies
albeit in a uniquely different way

This is how I have by God's grace I have made my peace with the inconsistencies

Paraphrased for impact, Genesis says that in the begining God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was without form and void,
and darkness was upon the surface of the deep,
but despite this inconsistency of creation vs gloom the wind/Spirit of God moved over the waters

Also, Genesis tells us how God puts clay together and breathes into it for man to emerge


So when the writer of Timothy says that all scripture is God breathed and profitable for different uses, what all these verses together minister to me is that:
yes, men may have written the scriptures based on their understanding of events and bias.
Even God speaking directly to some of them does not change the tendency for them to narrate it based on their bias and understanding.
Even those who translate the original would carry on with their own bias

But despite all of this, as long as God breathes on the imperfection, you would find its narratives extremely useful for success in your everyday life.

So even if you find it hard to believe (and reasonably so) that a donkey talked in the bible.
The story when it is God -breathed would teach you that all things both none-living and living will work together to ensure that no curse rests upon you

@Frosbel

With regards to Bible inconsistencies. I agree with you, and believe that all christians who read the bible do see it.
Unbelievers try to point out these inconsistencies to us as gaps that show the bible is fraud.

We christians approach it a different way.
Some of us simply try reconciling using various tools such as original texts for it to fit with our denominational view.
So someone reads where the bible says an evil spirit from God. The person then interprets it as God allowed an evil spirit

Some others just like the israelites who could not bear to hear God speak or see Moses face simply put a veil over it and forbid others from also going near

Some use these inconsistencies to chart new denominational leadership courses where they are the ones that are sole interpreters of the bible

Some take a look at these inconsistencies, attempt to reconcile them and are rebuffed by others who have formed temples around the bible. They soon fall away from christianity.

Some say that the bible is the word of God. And in so doing cannot find faults in it. The inconsistencies are simply waived away saying stuff like "you cannot question God"


I on my own believe that all questions have an answer. I believe that if God be true, he would sort out queris
This believe is not set in stone and can change with time.

frosbel:
wrong.

The Jews reject this as an outright lie, there is nowhere in their scripture that a virgin birth was mentioned, at least they should know, it is their book we borrowed.

read my post again
What I said or implied was that a virgin birth would be more significant to the jews.
I didn't say that they were expecting it.
and the reason it would be significant to them was because of the genesis narrative

Genesis of the Torah says that one man directly from God brought death
it only makes arguable sense to scholars of the Jewish tradition that one man
directly from God will also bring life
this is a point that can be argued to those who believe in the Torah
Just like Paul did

..but wait a minute
the next question becomes, where the Jews even thinking of a Messiah that would reverse the Genesis curse?

the answer is No
The whole concept of Jesus must have hit them with a surprise
the Messiah they were expecting was one in the mould of david, and maybe mini moses
someone that would make them a great earthly kingdom free from colonialists such as the Roman Empire

Hiswordxray:
Stop arguing. I get your point but you don't need to be arguing with your fellow Christian but instead let help our beloved brother who is falling away.

I don't think he is falling
Jesus says that seeds grow only when they die.

He is shedding skin and dead weight
as long as his inner man is anchored on solid rock
the fire of revelations will only burn off confusion and leave someone that is sounder and more approved

The gospel to the gentiles was not largely centered around the Torah
They were not expected to buy copies of the Torah either
Paul rebuked Peter because he sought to introduce some Torah traditions to the gentile flock

The gospel was simply one of power and miraculous deed. This is the kind of thing that appealed to the gentiles and could pull them from their own beliefs.

shdemidemi:
The Virgin birth is the heart of Christianity. If Jesus happen to be like you and I in the sense that he is a direct progeny of the fallen Adam, He wouldn't have been fit to die for the sin of mankind.

Paul puts it this way-Rm 8v3 For God achieved what the law could not do because it was weakened through the flesh. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh

He was not sent as you and I but like you and I i.e without natural copulation between a man and a woman.

It is the heart of Christianity alright
but when the gospel was being preached to the gentiles, that was not what was being preached, because, not all gentiles had the narrative of the fall of man in the first place. The 'evidence' of the virgin birth was more useful to the Jewish tradition

What was being preached to the gentiles was that there was one true God who they should look up to.
And that this Yahweh God sent a man -Jesus who if they believed in him, they would have access to this one true God.
And so, instead of beseeching the other gods for favours, they should turn their attention to Yahweh through Jesus who will not only grant them these favours when asked right, but will also take them to a better place in the afterlife

frosbel:
Bible contradictions.

Since you are still studying and have not arrived at rigorous conclusions yet
you would do good to yourself for now not to use the word "contradiction"

Try using "inconsistencies" instead

Interestingly, one of the popular pastors from Eastern Nigeria.
I can't remember if it is Okonkwo, once said on TV, years ago
that he did not believe in the virgin birth for a long time even as a pastor.

I don't think that a believe or none-believe in many aspects of the Bible are prerequisites to eternal life
What I think is that they can only affects ones faith and direction on this earth either positively or negatively.