vooks:
Thomas Ice certainly thinks so
https://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/LiteralSacrificesInTheMillennium.html
Anybody supporting him?
CC: BabaGnoni,Shdemidemi,Ayoku777,esere826,NLMediator,mbaemeka,Bidam

I don't agree with the thought, but i won't be quick to call him a heretic

I have some issues with scriptures, which I am still trying to understand/unravel (God helping)
the answers of yesterday are no longer suitable for today.

There is something interesting about IT.
You can use some IT technologies such as codes and GUI's to build wonderful solutions
The smarter and more experienced you are, the easier it is for you to build and unravel complex IT solutions
In all of this, you follow some rules set up by those that developed the codes
the original developers might say something like this:
If the user writes "[b] [b]"then make any text between it bold

So You are happy that you are able to figure out the secondary working of the code, but it gets to a point
that you say wait a minute. Why was "[b] [b]" defined as bold?

Now, the scripture talks a lot about blood.
Based on its talk about blood we like IT geniuses can decode that when a special blood is spilled once and for all
it pays the ultimate price without any need for other blood sacrifices.

But then, you take a step back and say wait a minute
why is blood needed in the first place
Some Bible genius might jump out saying:
"without shedding of blood, there is no remission" and that "life is in the blood".

You say, "yeah, i get that alright, but why is blood needed?"
"Could God not have instituted something else as a sin taker?"

When you start asking such questions and get answers, I think you inch your way past the outside courtyard inter greater understanding

There is a saying that

...."too many cooks spoil the broth"

TeHN
you've done well no matter the mistakes or outcome

PassingShot:
People writing and checking about how clueless he actually is.

lol

I think it had something to do with the aerial picture of the massacre that Yahoo is featuring right now

vooks:
Esere826,
He is in many words aksin to be given time to Google for a Dispensationalism biased timeline so that he can comment on it. He don't want to be caught like a dear in the headlights...Jehovah's Witnesses can't think without their Watchtower study 'aids'
His will have 7 'dispensations from Genesis to Revelation and the 'message of Grace' starts somewhere in Acts 15

lol naaaa...
I'll give Shdemidemi the benefit of doubt

and besides, I think it as an assignment for all of us to try to do
its kinda crazy that we just received a book without trying to find out more about instead of parroting that "it is the Word of God"
afterall, someone in the bible seems to be way smarter than us of this generation and says this:

Luke 1
Dedication to Theophilus

1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things which have been accomplished among us, 2 just as they were delivered to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word, 3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely[a] for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theoph′ilus,[b] 4 that you may know the truth concerning the things of which you have been informed

shdemidemi:


Can't do that at the moment but there is quite a lot of time lines that depict the timing of event from Gen. to Rev. on line.
I will probably paste one much later. They certainly help for guided study.

That would be great. Thanks
With such timelines, we might even start seeing possibilities that the gap between a revelation and the time it was documented and who documented it could have an influence
Something like I tried to explain to Frosbel about the possible reason why there is no record of the virgin birth in the book of Mark

shdemidemi:


The bible isn't confusing if we learn to understand it as a progressive revelation instead of one flat story book. It is within God's prerogative to keep things hidden from man until He chooses to unveil them. He unveiled the message for the church to Apostle Paul but my friends will rather pitch their tent with those who came before the Apostle.
Deut 29:29
"The LORD our God has secrets known to no one. We are not accountable for them, but we and our children are accountable forever for all that he has revealed to us, so that we may obey all the terms of these instructions.

Fair enough
Please can you help to present a timeline for different activities and revelations from Matthew to Revelation.
Such a visual presentation could be helpful.
It doesn't need to have dates, just present it in a linear sequence.

From this, we can try determining when Paul received this revelation compared to the other apostles
and whether this was the final revelation of his or if he reverted back to previous revelations

We can even learn loads of other stuff than can help in our discussions

Something like this:

Ok guys,

why don't we step back and take a look at the root cause of all of these arguments and confusion
An atheist would simply explain that it is because there is no God, and that the writers of the Bible were writing fairy tales and hence the confusion.

It is clear that the bible seems to support both points of views that you guys are debating
and hence, you can never come to an agreement
So the question for me would be "who actually propounded these points of view?"
and why?

I have my theory about what happened, but it is quite long

italo:


If I thought "sick" was a verb, my statement would read: "sickler is not from the verb "sick."
But how can I explain this simple thing to you? How can I open your brain and put common sense in there?
So let me agree that I never knew that "sick" wasn't a verb. I thought it was. I thought it was right to say "I am sicking" or "you sicked."
You dont argue with a mad man that calls you "mad." You either ignore or agree and move away.

You're obviously filled with not only the Holy Spirit
but the Holy Ghost fire

italo:


........ because you do not know that the noun "sickler" is not from a verb "sick." It is from the word "sickle" as in "sickle cell."......

Haba Italo

I just dey help you oo
We cannot write one thing in English and mean another ooo
we are not mind readers
Well carry go and more grammatical twisting power to your elbow

I just now noticed that GEJ is trending on Yahoo.
Any reason for this?

italo:
The subject is truly bigger than people like you who laugh in ignorace because you do not know that the noun "sickler" is not from a verb "sick." It is from the word "sickle" as in "sickle cell."
A person who sins is a sinner. Come up with another ignorant defence.

I couldn't help interjecting abeg no vex

sick is not a verb
it as an adjective

a verb signifies action, eg the boy JUMPS
while an adjective signifies an attribute eg the man is SICK or the dress is RED

Sick is only a verb in UK pidgin (informal English). it is then used like this:
he sicked (i.e. vomitted) in the pub


make all of una suffery dey misyarn oooo

Nice searching Frosbel. Hope it goes well

Let me help a little bit here in adding some thoughts that could help in building an almost visual picture.

If indeed Mary conceived without a man, who would have known about this?

Mary would definitely have known for sure who was responsible
If Joseph was not responsible, he would have serious misgivings
Even if he had a dream about it, he most likely would suffer some doubts once in a while for a long time.
Mary and Josephs parents and family elders will naturally assume that Joseph was responsible for the pregnancy
It is not common for parents to speak about sexual encounters with their kids,
so Jesus brothers, sisters and cousins wont know about this for a long time

So the story of the virgin birth if true (I believe it is)
is one that would only have come out very slowly and mixed with suspicions
It is not a story that would have been so out there for the consumption of the general public
neither would the disciples have been bold enough to ask Jesus for confirmation
I doubt that Jesus would be telling them about his mums sex life too

Perhaps, we can assume that after the death and resurrection of Jesus plus other miracles they witnessed
The disciples would have been better placed to enquire more from jesus sibling
(not the mum) about this rumour they heard in order to further validate an emerging Christ concept/theology

Jesus sisters would be in the best position to confirm from their mum and in turn share this with their brothers
who in turn would reluctantly share this with the others

You can see from this that it not something that would have been in the forefront of the gospel for years
However, as Christianity matured and sort of needed a religious structure to rest on
it is an information that would have been considered useful to add to the religious body of knowledge concerning Christ

Akdegreat:

........Some folks would say "you can't have your cake and eat it."

The first time I heard that phrase. I was like "wtf"?
I pensively asked the guy who was saying this to me: "so what am I to do with my cake? stare at it?"

It a corruption of the original idioms which are either:
-You cant have your cake and eat it TOO
or
-You cant have your cake and it (too)

with this, the idiom reads better to mean that both events are mutually exclusive

vooks:

SirJohn,
If only these guys were honest and admitted to making merchandise of the gospel...

that will be difficult even for the most 'saintly' to admit
Even businesses that are set up solely for profit are expected to bear some father christmas social responsibility

remember that Sign Fireman was blunt and truthful about his strategy when he was interviewed by that guy in the mini-scandal video
yet folks criticized him

my fellow pastors
how come you guys quote scriptures more than the new testament writers?
just wondering

The fault finders

a husband and wife married to one will tell you how painful it is
The problem with the fault finder is that nothing you do is good enough
they do not have a standard that they weigh you against... no
all they do is make something wrong about you with twisted and probably poetic and appealing logic

I'll give you an example
the wife gains weight, and the fault finder says with such weight you'll waste money buying new clothes that fit
the wife looses weight, and the fault finder says as a woman is getting older she should concern herself with being a rallying point for the familly
and not how to compete with 19 yr old models

You see how wickedly unpleasent such people are
Its much easier when someone has a standard
for example, if the husband like a woman that is size 12 and can cook variety of meals
then the wife knows what to work towards and what she can get rebuked for if she steps outside the line


Sometimes I read through Dele Momodus page on Thisday.
Today i clicked on his page and shook my had trying hard to finish reading it
i have come to realise that although he's a good story teller he is ultimately a fault finder
one minute, he could be saying that the president should go on a tour around the country
the next minute if the president does this, Dele would be writing that the president should not be going on tours when the country is burning


as teenagers and youths, we pass through a stage in our life were we are influenced heavilly by outside fault-finding voices
as we grow older, we should not let these voices stir us. We should chart our courses ourselves

@humanshado

wrong title
The analysis only says that Nigeria's access to porn has increased greatly compared to previously,
not that it is one of the top porn watchers
that a 6 months old baby doubles its size in 2 months does not mean that it is rated as one the tallest humans

..................if you're my student, I'll give you a big fat zero for missing such a simple thing

vooks:
....What's unremarkable is that some people still defend him after this

Exodus 21:2-6 If you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years; but on the seventh he shall go out as a free man without payment. 3If he comes alone, he shall go out alone; if he is the husband of a wife, then his wife shall go out with him. 4If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone. 5But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ 6then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.

To answer your question, WHY DO CHRISTIANS (STAGE) FAKE MIRACLES?
1. Profit- the spectacular is a money magnet. The woman with the issue of blood risked stoning just to get the touch. Desperate miracle seekers will pay ANYTHING to get it
2. Foolishness- some believers imagine that they are helping the 'cause' by ascribing fake miracles to Jesus. They think it is perfectly in order to lie to win souls. The end justifies the means

forgive me, but I'm not comfortable with the word "lie" here. Maybe its me, but I tend to describe what you've stated as "deception".
"Lie" feels more like a pastor preaching and when he forgets the passage quickly lies and says "in genesis 1, God said in the beginning was the Word..."
"Deception" on the other hand sounds like someone with full and planned intention to purposely twist facts to serve an intended purpose

vooks:

Just about every other ministry have a website which cost next to nil to run. Then you have youtube. What is the big deal with availing the sermons through these channels?
They are afraid that if they sold what is available freely, few would buy the DVDs. So it is not lack of technology that prevents them but business acumen

o no vooks
hope this is no new discovery to you ?

I wonder why folks think that pastors are different from every day folks
its like a teenage boy thinking his mum is a virgin

umhhhh
strong family bonds are easily broken by wives

TV01:
I grasp the concept of a "gospel of sinlessness", but how does agreeing with it prove if someone is anointed, a worker of divine miracles etc as posed by my questions?

good to know we have a meeting point
so let me explain

1. How are you certain he's anointed? And more specifically anointed by God?

I only believe he is. just like I believe that TB Joshua is, and believe that I am.
Those are just my beliefs/perception based on what I have processed and think i understand

2. Even if we don't question his dedication, which "gospel" is he dedicated to? Especially when you yourself question his gospel of sinlessness

By his fruits, he sure spreads the gospel of sinlessness. i do not question this nor the type of gospel itself. what I question is follow follow throughout most of ones lifetime without grounding, like a guy that came here parroting what he was taught. I also kinda question the subtle encouragement of people to do what they wont otherwise do to bring in money. This is an ethical thing to me.

3. How are you sure? Miracles - or seeming miracles - can be worked outside God

yep, i would think that miracls can be worked outside God, but pls refer to my conclusion

5. Even if you assume he started with genuine fervour, and in Gods will. Do you believe he is still in/doing it at this point?

also refer to my conclusion

CONCLUSION
interestingly the gospel of sinlessness if true (I believe it is)
means that you can indeed tap into God independent of your character whether good or considered evil. it essentially says that its not your character that matters to tap into what is already available to you
it also means someone who tries to live by the typical xtian values is able to achieve same result as someone who discards the typical xtian values

based on this gospel of sinlessnes
so after the 'born again' point, how do you tap into Gods goodies whether you're good or evil
Chris suggests that it is mainly through money
some say its through prayers and fasting
some say it is through keeping quiet when pastor messes up
some say it is by follow follow
some say it is by pursuing what God has laid in your heart to do
the list goes on and on

TV01:

1. How are you certain he's anointed? And more specifically anointed by God?
2. Even if we don't question his dedication, which "gospel" is he dedicated to? Especially when you yourself question his gospel of sinlessness
3. How are you sure? Miracles - or seeming miracles - can be worked outside God
4. I appreciate that to understand is not to endorse, but how do yo umake your claims 1-3 above - with any certainty - if you don't.
Wild card;
5. Even if you assume he started with genuine fervour, and in Gods will. Do you believe he is still in/doing it at this point?b
TV

The target audience for this write up was folks who share some similar beliefs to mine -the once saved always saved crew
and those that many times agree with the man but find it difficult to understand why some of his (or his ministries) actions or utterances seem at variance with what they consider cherished christian values

And finally it was my little way of empathizing with the woman in the center of the whole brouhaha

..it might be difficult for someone outside this circle to understand it except they understand (even if they not accept) the gospel of sinlessness.

liliangmail:
save a soul oooo! i need to learn **Advanced Filtering** And ** Conditional formatting**

Do you have a particular use for it so i can tailor my teaching towards your project or you just need generic knowledge?

Conclusion

Little wonder that the gatemen in boarding houses always tend to check Garri for smuggled goods
If a dad wants to hand his daughter a grenade without being caught, all he needs to do is to come on visiting day and hand it to her
..simplez

And i'll tell you something else
If you go into all boarding houses right now and search the children of all Force personals
thoroughly especially those that leave in the barracks
you might see the missing gadgets that our soldiers are complaining that they are yet to receive

bottom line is this: I'm sure this entire event has nothing to do with Boko haram or Christian GEJ sponsoring terrorists

What students do what I'm sure you're aware of

In my secondary school and early university days we had a habit of bringing artefacts from home
It was a way of bonding and a kind of right of belonging to bring awesome status symbols from home.

The rich had no issue with this.
They would bring dollars and plenty of naira notes that they pilfered (we called in bombed) from their dads
Some in boarding houses would bring cars and park it in the house of their guardian teachers who they regularly tipped

Well, those that were not from well to do homes, but always wanted to belong
had to think of creative things to bring to school.
-If your mum was a jeweller, you would pack her gold chains and hope she does not find out
-If your dad na native doctor, you might be the go-to guy
for taking away the jazz from that chicken that unfortunately strolled into the premises

-iF your dad was in the police force or armed forces and had not been collecting enough egunje
you would be left with bringing in gears such as bullet proof vests, boots, camouflage items and service pistols
Some sold off these items. Some returned them home at the end of school term

How did they get many of these items into the school premises?

...you guessed right.
It was smuggled in that flavoured gold dust called gari

Before the koko of my story

With regards to information, I sometimes regard humans as being grouped into 3 categories
1) Knowledgeable
2) Catastrophic or stupid
3) Ignorant or gullible
Categories change based on the type of information that is being processed.

-The knowledgeable have a good idea of an issue but do not tend to be vocal
-The stupid are extremely vocal, they think they know,
but are primed full with emotions when reviewing issues
-The Ignorant do not know. They wait for information to be fed to them, then run with it.

So its like this ...
the knowledgeable walks past a crowd curiously gathered around a goat which they've never seen before.
He casually says "that na goat na" , before walking away.

The stupid, looks at the animal and says "na dragon be dis ooo. see im horn" .
When someone tells him that many harmless animals have horns
he says "but see the way this one they say 'mehn, mehn.'... na winch wen turn to animal be that na".

The ignorant just consumes the most emotionally appealing information from the catastrophic fella
and picks up tires to burn the goat.

..I dey come

FortresOfChrist:
I have been studying the doctrine of Justification for some time and I must say it's a deep doctrine that beats the human mind of what the Lord our fortress did for us. How can a just God declare a sinner righteous even with their sins because they are in Christ Lord our fortress and some still say they have sin in their lives? Another issue is how can a sinner be declared guiltless without works? This doctrine of justification and righteousness by faith is really the Lord our fortress doing. So my question is is one who is justified and declared righteous still a sinner? Does the bible teaches that one can be righteous, justified and at the same time be sinner after being declared justified? I need my brethren in this discussion please.

Una don turn me to pastor kwo?

Ok, I could say many stuff, but I'll approach it this way
Why are we plus you usually bothered about sin?
There are 2 or 3 main reasons?
1) Punishment in the afterlife
2) Punishment in this life
3) Lack of blessings in this life

Now we were told wether na allegory or algorithm or na film trick
that Adam ate a simple fruit which was placed temptingly close to him
and then (2) and (3) became the birth right of his descendants plus death. Many add (1) to the mix with a lot of arguments like what happens to dead children etc.
This is despite you being a good guy which some argue might only bring a small measure of relief in this life.

If this is true, then it is also possible for one person that is your dad like Adam can also reverse this I should think
irrespective of your good or bad actions

Let's imagine that the person cannot solely guarantee you Point (1) except you join am work out your salvation with trembling
The person should at least be able to provide (2) and (3) without your efforts
But we are told to do stuff like sow for the blessings
and then some have even gone as far as saying tithing takes away the punishment of unprotected sex
aside from that we are pretty sure that if we cross our hands, we wont see fruits dangling from around us to pluck from

So what is the new Adam solely responsible for that does not need your input?
You know how crazy it sounds that God allowed the entire humanity to slip into catastrophe by living a fruit worse than atomic bomb in his garden.
If God did this, like it is said, then the antithesis of this should also be as crazy too


Now, let's rewrite the Genesis again
God tells Adam the day you eat of this fruit, you shall live
Adam eats the fruit and realises that he is now clothed in Glory
God looks for him, and he jumps out happily saying "surprise, surprise"
God smiles and say "ah ..in happiness shall you work the ground, and you shall reap bountifully"
this same blessing is passed on to all the seeds of the new Adam no matter what.

Yeah, ... I am talking yaga yaga
But whatever sin means, at the minimum the fellowship of Jesus should afford one the courage to stand boldly before God first and foremost
and call him daddy.
It doesn't me you should go about wronging people, if you do, they should catch you and beat the day life out of you.

But if me as a little innocent kid could be a child of death and its attribute because of papa Adam no matter what
I'd be happy to argue the case of life for me and its attribute because of Jesus no matter what

After all, there is a judgement before our final abode. Na there we go tok the matter.

vooks:
Here is what I have observed
1. Unnecessary splitting of messages into several DVDS to make a 'series'. A 2 hour sermon that can comfortably sit on a dvd is split into 40 minutes bits,a set of 3 DVDS sold of course at the price of 3.

I think a pastor once said something about god giving you the ability to sell even sand
The splitting of the message is simply to make more money
its a normal business model like Star wars and Harry Porter franchise

2. Most of the DVDS are bought by people who watched the pastor live. These are the same members who support ministry and as such there is no need to profit from them

you've got a point about the sermons being bought by folks who already support the ministry so why profit from them
But capitalists dont think that way.
Unlike the Lagos State gove that gave free bus rides during the festive season
a capitalist would rather hike the price during that period

3. Charging for DVDS is one step away from charging for Live sermons

I hear it is already being done on new years day in some churches
I am not a tither although I do tithe sometimes, but the model I use in giving to my church most times is paying for my seat and another persons seat at cinema rate
We might soon come to this. I also hear some jewish synagogues do this

4. Selling merchandise is always restrictive;fewer benefit. Don't tell me that 'mature' believers know the value of the message exceeds the cost

We all need to understand that the gospel of wealth would require people to pay for it. Its no shakabum spell from God
its simply the ability of one to take money from another, and in some instances, selling sand as something pricey

From my own chritian perspective, i hold no grudge against pastoral capitalists
as long as they can act like a typical woman ..who marries for love, children, security and money at the same time
but at least strongly believe that it is all and only for love

Personally, I favor the open source approach like Linux. I can download at. My expense a Hirens Boot CD and burn it but ordering a CD costs me. In short, free resources but believers pay the small cost of distribution.

when david was hungry he ate priests bread
if a congregant is hungry for the word but thinks the pastor is a greedy bloke
then probably pirate the work but no sell am o
if dem catch u, you are on ya own

ihedinobi2:
Interesting approach, esere826. There are some questions though? What quality does God as you have defined him here would be responsible for the fact of creation? That is, why does this being that is everything and nothing, that contains good and evil, male and female and so on bother to create?

Secondly, how exactly would you say that the Word was with God?

Based on this theory
this being could have made a choice to create a system and made a choice to make that system have an order and made the choice to respect that order

Probably, the point in timelessness were this decision was taken was what what the writer of John considered as the beginning
and that decision was the word itself
so in the beginning, the Word was with God

still within my rough likely wrong sketch
if we try to juxtapose that concept against the theological christian beliefs about christ it could be any or both of these:
the word was the authority name that was bestowed upon the human christ
that he became the human merged with all the esence of the Word and became God

or that the Word was the spirit that was breathed in baby Jesus
so Jesus carried all the Word and its/he's powers plus the blueprints of the universal rules which had been established in the beginning of tangibility

uhmmm... this sound like those funny messages now

plaetton:

Ever heard of " Simony" ?

Pls Google it and tell us what it means , what it means to you in light of the immoral nonsense you and your type are peddling.

I did read it
I can see your point but i think its blurred
simon himself requested to buy power not a tape, but was rebuked

for the institution of simony in an ecclesiastel body
If the leadership of a body says something is wrong,
then it can be said to be wrong within that institution only (lets not worry about the external environment here)

If the body choses to sell its product
the externals to this transaction 'MIGHT' only be worried if what is offered is not what is got
and they want to protect the buyer

Sjones:
What exactly do u intend to achieve with this nonesense write up ?

Pastor Anita never accused her husband of adultery.Cablnews.ng that first came up with d news smuggled in that word"adultery" to deceive d whole world especially those of u that love lies and enjoy feasting on things like this.

If u can write so well,use it to preach d gospel and u wil have a reward .

and who says i don't preach the gospel
ooops, i forget --ur only parroting what you were taught to say in response to critique

and what kind of reward should i seek?
probably not the type you seek for I have been rewarded with that already
The reward i seek is simply to make things plain to seekers,...this makes me happy

And what is wrong with throwing a harmless jab at a ministry once in a while
I see Apostles in the bible do it
I even see pastors in your ministry do it more often than others maybe not calling their names
i am sure you are aware of this

what is wrong if i talk about a controversial 'great' man situated within my economy.
I talk about GEJ, Buhari and Ibori..is this not a price to be paid for greatness?
after all, i am not talking about you, but you are talking about me, and i'm talking about your boss
see the heirarchy of things?

plaetton:

I am soooooo disappointed that you could utter such crap." Does knowledge come cheap"?

I actually thought you were the more moderate of these Christian retar.D's. I guess I was wrong again to assume that were intelligent and rational Christians.

If Jesus was actually alive to hear you utter such utterly st.up.Id and ridiculous statements, he wound cry so loud as to knock the earth out it's orbit .

I think we can now understand why the early Christians were persecuted in Rome for corrupting the moral underpinnings of society.

The sheer stupidity, greed and immorality that emanates from this toxic variant of a fraudulent religion is just overwhelming.
This is a shocking endorsement of fraud and all that is immoral about Pentecostal Christianity.

No need to be shocked my friend
it is what it is

If you want to become a christian and preach the gospel for free with your own resources
we would be happy about it

I do a lot of learning by browsing free stuff on the internet
I am thankful for 'those' like wikipedia and opensource who put up stuff for free
however, i do not get upset if Microsoft decides to ensure that users pay for their product
i simply switch to the next free product