EZEIGBO1OFIMO:
True, but I don't think survival mode has inhibited any curiosity; amongst out elite who have gone to schools I'm western societies, hardly do we see any who had science lab in their garages, rapid self development in tech (e.g palmer luckey et al), go on into the hard sciences and at least do one awesome thing with daddy's money; instead a large portion of them have become regular rehab Tennant's and prefer to wallow In self deceit in shyte like African leaders training etc. if those with the money, western exposure, and training in the best places in the world that have given us Nobel prize aficionados and Silicon valley giants, can't at least do something useful, then the problem is neither culture nor survival mode.

As you said, elites with access to wealth and good education. Only a tiny percentage of the people would ever develop an interest in the hard sciences not to speak of being so good at it as to invent stuff. Not hard to see why none of the Elite's kids have gone on to become inventors. The very few who manage to become really good never come back to Nigeria anyways.

However, of late, I have become very interested in the history of high level science education in the colonial times to have a fuller picture but there's hardly any information available. I know the indians + pakistani, Japanese and chinese already had knowledge of hardcore modern math and physics pre-1960 thanks to the British. The question is: what sort of education we're we getting during the colonial period?

Modified: I see what you mean and I need to re-package my argument or someone improves upon what I've said otherwise, the only option left is that the deficiency is intinsic and I can't accept that!

IamaNigerianGuy:


You have made an amazing and baffling leap of logic. The articles are different. One has nothing to do with the other

How so? I remember, among other things, you claimed the writer was racist because of facts that an average white liberal would not openly admit due to the need for political correctness.

EZEIGBO1OFIMO:
Yeah, just the writing style made me iffy. Honestly I still think even if they stayed up until the 21st century, nothing would have changed either. Our historical timeline obviously did not show any signs of cerebral or mental positive evolution. While the world went through the dark ages, Renaissance, enlightenment; somehow we were very content with the Grinding stone, which we used for a f*cking millennia. Our ancestors didn't question the status quo, they never wandered outside in curiosity, they were just content with eating, marrying and increasing the population faster than one another.

I think you implicitly exaggerate the extent of the level of our (and other sub-saharan) civilization as at the time of contact. Apart from the nothern empires (Sokoto and Bornu-Kanemi due to trade with arabs), we were at the level of subsistence economy, not even large scale agrarian, zero concept of wages nor knowledge of the wheel, no written language etc just as the article said. Till date, I don't think yoruba has up to 5 words for colors... that's how bad it is. There's simply no way we could have gone through all those stages (dark ages, Renaissance etc) in such a short time (100-200 years) without their help. We weren't ready when they left.

I think we could have improved if they stayed. I think the reason we have remained backward is cultural. I think we are now stuck in survival mode and there's so much emphasis on making money to get by so we have no time to be curious and explore the world around us. Our culture might have fully evolved if we mingled much longer with them (assuming no apartheid, but that's not a guarantee because they weren't as morally superior as they were technically advanced).

EZEIGBO1OFIMO:
I didn't like the article also, but for the reason that the writer was just zig zagging round the whole issue without structure, the writer should spend a few weeks on the economist or WaPo and see how lengthy articles can be written in style.

Okay, to be clear, you didn't like the article for the writing style but not for the uncomfortable truths: that cultures aren't equal - some are more advanced and better than others, colonialism was inevitable because of the huge gap in complexity of our cultures with respect to theirs, most African countries shouldn't have had independence that early until a good number of people were educated enough for democracy to work properly etc.

IamaNigerianGuy:


Not politically correct but I agree with you.

I now see why you disagree with the article I shared some time ago. Political correctness.

There's simply no nice and gentle way of telling people they're ignorant and wallow in intellectual squalor. Just look at the quality of news/discussion in Naija social media, the sort of shallow [sexual] jokes that gets Nigerians laughing on Twitter and Instagram, the constant use of "African culture" [which is nothing but ignorance and anti-intellectualism dressed in 'iro and buba' of culture] to oppose learning, liberalism and development etc etc. If we don't face facts and work hard to gain proper scientific and political knowledge, we will never develop.

ScienceWatch:
It is alleged that these homos birth primitive Atheistic concepts to counteract their fear of a creator God. They were also scientifically advanced but soon found that Science cannot explain Occult power but classifies and research's it as paranormal cosmic power. They smartly avoided giving God the benefit of their doubts. These Homos discovered its frightening power source is demonic and not of God, nor is it natural latent in the human psyche, although it was explained as such to deceive the unwary.

The Homos were acutely aware that GOD STRICTLY FORBIDS THEM TO HAVE ANY TYPE OF INVOLVEMENT WITH THE OCCULT. THERE IS NO Godly FORM OF FORTUNE TELLING, ASTROLOGY, Ouji board, visualization, or astral travel, channeling, angelic communication or talking to the dead. The biggest danger is that these concepts are historically christianized for acceptance ,

These Homos were clever, they regularly changed the names of these occultic practices so that one does not know immediately what they are engaged in. There ingenious plan worked. The world can then practice unknowingly what is forbidden.

Today, OCCULT PRACTICES PROMISE TO GIVE AN EXPERIENCE OF EXTRA POWER. THIS COMES THROUGH THE MAGAZINES, AND NEWSPAPERS ADVERTISING THE POWERS OF THE MIND, WITH SOME RINGS OR CRYSTALS TO GAIN CONTROL OVER THEMSELVES, THEIR LIVES and THINGS AROUND THEM, AND OTHERS !
THIS IS WHAT ATTRACTS PEOPLE INTO THIS ACTIVITY. ONCE THEY GAIN THIS POWER, THEY BECOME INITIATED BY IT, PRISONERS TO THE ONE THING THAT THEY THOUGHT WOULD HELP SET THEM FREE.

So, what do Christians really think of Homos ?

Just look at the fvcking sh!t this one typed. hehehehe.

When OP asked for your thoughts on our extinct cousins, he didn't ask for fictional stories of "homos" (whatever the heck that means) and the occult.

Everyone is moving forward apart from this fvcking sh!thole country where the average man believes one can magically transform limbs into bank notes. Low quality people in this country has us at least 500-1000 years behind.

IamaNigerianGuy:


I will gloss over the insult aimed at the intelligence of the readers and embedded in your recommendation.

I move on to ask if you have read the piece and if 'yes', did you understand it ? For it seems to me after study of his arguments (which did not require an hour, much less a week), that the writer is an unabashed and vile racist and the write-up is simply a lugubrious effusion of his negative world view.
I wonder what you saw in it to justify recommendation.
If you are a black African and see any sense in what this writer has penned, your knowledge and education of colonialism and the anti colonial struggle is grossly deficient; for his are but old tired arguments which are not even politely offered in new wrapping.

Lol. It's not an insult to ask people to be diligent and thorough in a bid to learn. Especially on nairaland where people tend to skim through stuff.

Yes, I've read the entire article. So, I'm quite eager to read a superior argument.

You're only being emotional. I'd like to see your rebuttal against her major points.

I'll just drop this here if you wish to gain a deeper understanding about the origin of poorly developing [sub-saharan] African countries.

Suspend your afrocentric bias, take your time to read carefully, take a week if you need to, use a dictionary and Google to make sure you understand every single word and the prerequisite history, don't assume you know the meaning of words like "constitutionalism", "universal franchise" etc.

This brilliant article is the most important Africa related article I've read this year.


http://amp.nationalreview.com/article/454674/robert-mugabe-zimbabwe-descent-crisis?

omohayek:
It's funny how those without the level of education required to evaluate how much education is worth are the same ones who are most enthusiastic about this utterly ridiculous post! One can never lose money catering to the vanity of Nigeria's less educated and less intelligent!

As someone already mentioned, uneducated people are only more "successful" in "business" in poor third-world countries where "business" doesn't go beyond the buying and selling of unprocessed commodities, or mass importation of low-quality consumer goods (aka "container" ). Let's see how far anyone will get in automobile or airplane manufacturing, heavy engineering, pharmaceutical development or financial portfolio management without serious education! How many uneducated people have even a prayer of even breaking into software development, machine-learning, quantum computing or genetic engineering, let alone thriving in such environments? Where do you think Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates both started their businesses? At Harvard University! And where do you think Elon Musk was when he first decided to become an entrepreneur? In a PhD program for Applied Physics at Stanford University! Do these sound like uneducated people to any sane person?

The real problem with Nigeria isn't that its educated people are any less good at "business" than the uneducated ones. The real issue is that Nigeria is so badly led and so rife with corruption that educated people aren't able to grow the sorts of businesses that would make proper use of their skills; that's why the same "overeducated" Nigerians are able to thrive once they get to America, Canada, Europe or other such places. Why should people with curiosity and intelligence be content with "business" like filling containers with second-hand goods in Hong Kong and bringing them into Nigeria? Of course the uneducated will be better at such menial "business" - at least until it is automated by the educated so it too can be handled over the internet!

So we'll written, it's almost impossible to improve upon this.

It's annoying to realize that our revenue source in 2017 is basically the same as that of pre-colonial and colonial times - sales of unprocessed raw materials.

Zero improvement because we don't care about human development, just short term quick profits mostly due to greed.

Obi1kenobi:


You forgot to add that many call you a homosexual too. Because that is the only possible reason you could defend the individual liberties of people: because you are also a homosexual.

They provide no valid counter-argument.

Just as predicted.

You bigots are quite pathetic, dishonest and shallow.



Modified:

Haha!! Joke's on me! I didn't even recognize the sarcasm!! Disregard my hasty and harsh response.

boringnigerian:


I won't give up because I wouldn't want my children to be poisoned by their close-mindedness and bigotry

As long as you teach your children how to think for themselves, they should be able to arrive at the same conclusion that every rational thinking person gets to on this topic.

The problem is that these people don't know how to think for themselves or they suspend that function when it comes to issues that clash with their religious beliefs. Their feelings and actions are based on commandments that they consider holy and immutable.

But I respect your optimism anyways.

Obi1kenobi:


So many people keep asking this mooronic question.
1) If you or me were not here, we would not be here asking the foolish question in the first place and it would ultimately not matter. The average man produces over 500 billion sperm cells in his lifetime and the average woman produces over 2 million eggs. This basically means, each woman has the potential to conceive millions of kids and each man has the potential to sire even more. You might as well ask you mother why she didn't conceive 10,000 children.

2) A fruitful relationship is not simply about copulation and reproduction. Maybe the day Africans understand that, we'll stop breeding like rats and overpopulating the planet. Most of the planet's projected population growth in this century will come from Africa. Nigeria alone is projected to top over 400 million by 2050 and a billion by 2100, even as many countries in the developed world are struggling with receding populations. Relationships are about companionship. We're not animals that exist merely to breed. The days of "be fruitful and multiply" are long over for most of the enlightened world except your backward country and continent.

3) Homosexuality is an aberration. An anomaly. An incongruity. An exception. It is rare in all societies: even those where it has long been decriminalized and legalized for several decades. Even liberal European nations like Sweden, the Netherlands and the UK have consistently reported less than 2% of the population identifying as homosexual. So no, there will never ever be a future in which human population goes extinct because we all turn to homosexuals. Homosexuality is as old as human civilization (and exists in most mammal species) and there will always be a small minority of humans inclined sexually towards those of their gender the same way a minority of people are born left-handed.

The recurring theme of homosexuality threads on nairaland:

1. Homophobic religious bigots pour out their hatred and declare homosexuals a danger to the society based on false claims and their religious books.

2. Normal rational thinking people try to persuade them with reasonable arguments to show that their claims are false.

3. Religious bigots ignore or provide no valid counter-arguments. They then proceed to repeat the same nonsense.

4. Thread ends.

5. Rinse and repeat.

boringnigerian:


As you can see, it's obviously not a hundred years ago something as you said.

You're wasting your time arguing with people who have no fvcking interest in critical thought and argument for the sake of enlightenment. It doesn't matter how strong your argument is, you're not gonna change these religious bigots' mind.

Their mind is set on intolerance and hatred as commanded by their "holy" books.

Founder allegedly a friend of the governor while state commissioner for information rambles on about them being pencils in the hand of their god just acting out his script. It's seems the church is using her influence to obstruct justice. Not surprised, Nigerian Christian churches are a bastion of corruption (a.k.a divine favour ).

Nigerians and their imaginary enemies.

Someone even called them household enemies like it's some fvcking standard! Seen some funny names for these on nairaland but none made me LOL more than the guy that claimed he was being tormented by python spirit.

http://kaimatai..jp/2016/06/how-improbable-is-it-that-proteins-can.html?m=1

Skimmed through this thread a few days ago and stumbled upon this blog today. Thought I should share as it explains this issue to a layman like me who knows fvck all about protein formation.

hotdealz:
Luke 19:27

Wait, you're totally okay with a verse that basically says his "enemies" deserves to be slaughtered just because they didn't let him reign over them?

And 45 people liked this sh!t. I don die!

I no even wan hear the "context argument" cos you used a single verse to justify your pastor's barbaric view.

Daeylar:

This scares me and makes me laugh at the same time.
I guess it's just the deadpan way in which it's written.
Saying something that's considered outrageous in such a matter-of-fact way.

Haha!

All of society (government, justice, the Constitution, morality, good, evil etc) is really nothing but a social construct. However, it is necessary to have them if we don't wanna live short, brutish lives devoid of beauty like science, art etc.

Tozara:
Apparently, there can be no question in the slightest, that the fellow who went hunting a monkey for dinner is a clown and an idiot---despite all the warnings about Monkey Pox, this savage cretin still went on to indulge in the stupidity of hunting one down, to have it as meal. If he doesn't care for his own health and safety, and if that shouldn't be of concern to us, at least, he should be held accountable to the people with whom he cohabits, for the danger he might expose them to - in fact, getting him arrested wouldn't be too harsh a measure.

The health risk attached apart, however, there should be nothing wrong in killing and eating monkeys----of course, it can be LEGALLY wrong (courtesy of Conservation Laws), but it definitely can't be MORALLY wrong, since Monkeys are animals, primate or no primate, that do not belong to the Human species - the only animal that has RIGHTS, and that, rationally, SHOULD have rights.

So, if we can kill goats, cows, turkeys etc for food, I don't think there's anything instrinsically wrong in killing monkeys for the same purpose.

I said it was "close" to the moral lines drawn. Not immoral.

By the way, I've read your other posts and your basic [black and white] premise that animals are dumb and humans are smart is quite wrong. There's loads of interesting sources you can read online. There's an experiment which shows that monkeys understand the concept of inequality and injustice for example. Crows are quite smart. Evidence for language, cooperation, memory, trickery etc suggests that some animals might be conscious in their own way. It's a young field, especially since we know very little about consciousness, but it's very interesting.

Also, you need to always remember that social development always lags behind scientific advancement -- time is needed for new facts to become common sense or for us to fully understand their philosophical implications. The climate change issue and wild life conservation are good examples. You can imagine that in the future the "moral line" might expand to include animals proven to possess some threshold of sentience.

freecocoa:
I don't even know where to start with you, apes and humans have similar DNA bla bla bla, that makes them the same? What are you on about eating siblings? Where does that even factor into this? Just pray tell how eating a monkey is more more barbaric than eating a cow.

What use is a monkey to you, that a cow can never be?

I honestly don't think it's possible to simplify my line of reasoning any more than I've already done. It's unfortunate you still don't get it.


All the best!

freecocoa:
Tell that to the birds, if its not human, its not human.

Away with that primate nonsense.

At the fundamental level, there's no reason why you can't roast your siblings for dinner. However, over time, we (well, most human beings) have developed a society with laws/morals e.g one in which it is unacceptable to feed on fellow human beings. So, it is obvious that there should be a natural aversion to eating fellow primates with similar physical features. A cannibalistic society would surely see nothing wrong in eating monkeys, chimps and the likes. But such is very close to the "moral lines" that we've created.

I guess you should understand better now.

KemjikaEme:

I really don't understand the use of these slurs and insults.
An intelligent person will weigh the opinion of others and counter it without acting out like an idiott.
I made my opinion founded on my experiences with house help system in Africa and Nigeria and demonstrated how some indigent children have benefitted from it.
Within the Igbo society, apprentiship is another form of House help but this is rather done in the market place which has produced hundreds of rich igbo men who otherwise would have languished in poverty in childhood.
I also stressed that emasculation of human rights within the househelp system and child labour is a form of slavery which is far different from the African house help system.
Blame your poor comprehension skills and fooliishness.

Lol. They aren't insults, they're character inferences based on the sh!t you posted. Blame your position on the matter.

Of course, I noticed you inserted a "safety clause" of human rights to give your argument a humane facade. It doesn't change the fact that you support child labour, while willfuly ignoring the damage being done to these kids, in the name of culture.

Furthermore, the fact that you think a chores for skills indenture system is the same as child completely doing chores for money system shows the inherent amorality of your stance. The money, which usually is neither enough nor gets to the parents, is not for the child. The child gains no skill, no education. It's child labour -- formative years spent working for money.

I'll simply repeat what I said the last time for emphasis:
You, like most Nigerians, know exactly what most of these children go through. You know that some are being trafficked from neighbouring countries; that most have no access to good education; have no freedom of movement nor association; that their hopes and dreams in life is very likely dim and stunted. YET, you feign ignorance.

Also, you would understand my anger if you could comprehend the damage being done to kids by refusing them education, abusing them and treating them without dignity.

In the most euphemistic way, my evaluation of your character remains unchanged: you're a fucking idiot!

KemjikaEme:

I have showed you the obvious factors that lead to indectured servitude and and those factors don't apply to me or my children. You don't theoerize two parallel subjects and vilify the house help system when the circumstances surrounding both are unsimilar.
I don't understand what you are still ranting about.

Child trafficking and labour is criminal by modern moral and justice standards.

You're just a fvcking idi0t trying to sound smart. It's not uncommon to observe that most arseholes, like you, justify their barbaric views with "African culture".

Indentured service indeed.

You're pretending like there's some skill to be gained. Like you don't know most never go to school, are trafficked from neighbouring countries, never gain employable skills, get treated like dirt, sexually and emotionally abused etc. It doesn't make it right even if their parents/guardian agreed to it.

You, and many others who share this view, are intellectually dishonest piece of sh!t people.

fortune579:
Wow!!! See innovation. God help me, help Nigerians to embrace innovation. Tech is everything. Imagine the kind of money the company will make. Time to start rethinking.

The first non-idiotic comment on this thread. First two pages reeks of utter fücking idi0cy. We are so dumb in this country. The first company to perfect this sh!t will make a fvcking killing. Flexible + wearable tech, organic electronics will be a fvcking huge billion dollar industry in the nearest future.

You understand what's happening and what we lack: knowledge to create real value and an environment to support such creativity and innovation.

We only dig stuff from the ground, grow stuff (both done very inefficiently if I might add) and sell - almost no downstream related industry.

Our stupid leaders' constant poor decisions to prioritize other stupid sh!t over education & human development coupled with our societal sickness of always wanting money and social media popularity over real knowledge, will surely cement our place at the bottom of every industry --- consumer or raw materials supplier at best!

Lol. I'm an atheist and I approve of what he's doing. At least, he's putting SOME of the money (not all obviously: jets ) of these gullible people to good use. He's trying to build quality schools. Although the obligatory spirituality aspect adversely impacts the quality of his schools as places of intellectual freedom necessary for creativity.

The government, OTOH, is fvcking useless. Taxes should be raised through the roof: by exactly the percentage of tithes for a start! More than half the civil service sacked, salaries slashed at top levels etc. Then money should be pumped into our education and manufacturing+agric sectors. 90% of all government teachers - from primary to universities - should be sacked. Primary, secondary & vocational schools are the most important areas we ought to make really top fvcking quality and free.

In short, he's trying but if the government did her job, these schools shouldn't exist!

By the way, it seems statsocial and victorious are working for Winners or CU. Those two guys would go any length to tell you how fvking great CU is.

Lol. So easy to manipulate Nigerians.

googi:
Thank you for that curriculum comment.

Every comment here recognized the inhospitable environment every worker no matter his educational background found himself. It is nothing to glorify.

Some have issues with those students that have benefited most and were subsidized most from the adverse system- running away with our investment.

I have to tell this story. One of the Nigerian trained doctors came for postgraduate course. When he told the class that he could not even get clean water to wash his hands after operations, I was so ashamed, I did not know when I disputed his story in class.

Though I realized he could be telling the truth. He was told he needed to go back home and fix the problem. Coming back home, I knew it was not going to be easy. But the recognition, respect and pride at home cannot be compared to the disdain you get abroad, even if you become the President of United States.

If Prof. Happi was waiting for readymade equipment from abroad, instead of modifying what he had to come up with novel method, he would not have diagnosed Ebola in 48 hours.

That is how we complained about how expensive tractors, chicken feed and wheat were until some thought about trytor, modified old fashion way of feeding chicken and sold it as import, used cassava in bread before the public accepted it.

My friend is crying about Xray. Nobody could find out or make Xray out of old machine but a guy in Kaduna can make helicopter from scrap yard?

Agree with everything you said.

The annoying thing is that they've been listing really fixable issues as their reason for leaving: no Panadol, no water to wash hands, no electrical power, no separate rooms for TB patients etc. Some guy also said Gabon has better equipment than us. Surely, our health budget must be higher than Gabon and some other African countries with better healthcare. So, what exactly are their bosses doing with the funds?

Of course we are a poorly developed nation, we aren't gonna have the money to fully stock our hospitals with the nicest equipment. That's why engineers, scientists and doctors have to work together to, at least, make an attempt to build equipment at a much cheaper cost. I previously stated the use of 3D printing to make cheap stuff.

As you said, to the best of my knowledge (I do some XRD measurements), there's no reason why we (a nation of 180 million people) can't build an x-ray machine on our own. You're just focusing x-rays on a specimen and they hit a photographic plate - no major post processing analysis required. You accelerate electrons at high potential off some low ionization energy material, aimied at a target material like copper and you produce x-rays. Figuring how to ensure safe doses and correctly focusing the x-rays on the area of interest is all that's left.

One thing I'm sure of is that if we all keep running away, we'll never build a great nation.

AlfaSeltzer:


Children grow up.

You're a disgusting amoral motherfvcker!

ogbonnayaoo:
NUC doesn't fund research programs in the universities. There are agencies created for research funding.

Names please.

Nigeria is probably the only place in the world with this special kinda hate for smokers (female smokers especially). For some very irrational reason, they're evil people.

I would really like to know the story of how some propaganda cemented this belief so well that it's become a part of our culture. I'm sure this entire transformation happened within 30-40 years. Not more.

Anyone??

Daeylar:


I wonder why they keep referring to pedophilia, seems some are younger than 18

True.

I wonder what the Christians have to say about this

Most students at that level are usually older than 18. Especially govt schools.

It's not really a Christian thing. They're just some really fvcking dvmb people to fall for such in 2017.