₦airaland Forum

[quote author=Ileke-IdI link=topic=483289.msg6427117#msg6427117 date=1279742846]Where else do ppl have tribal marks? 


And nobody should be contesting against circumcision. Have you seen an uncircumcised de/ek? its nasty! They better continue with it[/quote]Uh, did you look at the slideshow?

Some of those marks actually look quite nice, well, the ones not on the face anyway, or if on the face, not huge gashes. The same people who are attacking "tribal marks" as child abuse will later argue against circumcision, in fact it's even happening amongst the cult of atheists.

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=477443.msg6422096#msg6422096 date=1279675353]Mugu the question is addressed to u cause u are the one trying to discredit the project. . .
My full quotes are below b4 u try and quote me halfway. . .jokes on u pal
its seems that u dont even know on what side of the arguement u are anymore. . . lol

MY FULL QUOTE FROM PAGE 6
"Its a project for the benefit of u and all nigerians that can afford to reside there

Even if u cant afford to reside there u can go there for high end shopping,relaxing,bar hopping u name it"
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-477443.160.html[/quote]Okay. . . . what was your point? How does "benefit of u and all nigerians that can afford to reside there" equal to 'benefit of the whole of Lagos'?

Mariory:
Those questions were directed at you because you seem to think there is nothing to "benefit" from the project.

The only person who wrote the word "benefit" is above you, so ask them questions.

babapupa:
Basically, you are against this project because the average Nigerian can not afford to reside there?

In case you didn't read the brilliant and "intelligent" quote, I'll post it again for you to see:

"Its a project for the benefit of u and all nigerians that can afford to reside there"

I thought this was a fair way to end this thread, but obviously you Guardian Angels of Lagos' image want me to fully convert, get on my knees and worship the Lagos government without even giving any reasonable argument, instead this is what you can write:

[quote author=paddy_lo link=topic=477443.msg6422096#msg6422096 date=1279675353]Mugu the question is addressed to u[/quote]

babapupa:
The questions was an opportunity for you to redeem yourself, but you blew it by clueless displaying the fact that I've been going back and forth with the dumbest and  mentally challenged human being  alive.

So who are the ones clearly frustrated in this thread?

Mariory:
Must you live there to beneit from it? Do you always live where you work? Do you always live where you shop? Do you always live where you go to enjoy leisure activities? Do you always live where you spend money? Think outside the box fellow Nigerians. Think!

Responding with questions? Think!. . . . and ask the person who I quoted all those questions.

TewMuch:
Do you think back then Africans will really know the difference? I have seen mixed children that are so black, when mixed with a pure black African. You cannot tell they are mixed, their hair may just be a little softer than a pure African baby. A lot of children back then may have been mixed, and mothers passing them off as their husbands children. This is very possible. And which Nigerian will admit to having a white fore father, so that the person can lose relevance in society and be disinherited. This is if they will ever know. You talk as if those people off the coast never intermarried with Igbo's. You know as a whole how the African society can be intrigued by lighter skinned women. Recessive genes are something else, and you never know when they rear their heads. Just as in this case. That baby is definitely a product of recessive genes. Either both parents had it, or one parent has really, really strong recessive genes. This just proves what i have always thought about very light skinned Igbo's. Its odd. Even the san men of south africa, who are lighter skinned than other African's are not as light as some Igbo's in Nigeria. A research should be done on how the strain of Igbo gene interacts with the white gene, cause i dont think it suppresses it too well.

No, sorry, the bold text is not possible. I don't know of any stories of Igbo wives travelling to go and meet European men and coming back to then have a baby, on top of that, they pass it as black. When I said most Igbo people can trace their genealogy, I mean from every fathers father that usually goes back to the villages progenitor. I can't see an Igbo woman travelling to Bonny, on her own, that's number one. Number two I can't see an Igbo woman getting raped in Bonny with the amount of Africans trading there.

As for the coastal people, these people did not even mix with the Europeans, as in having children, for them to have significant European ancestry. The people there are as black if not blacker than the Igbo. The small European genes they would have had would not have affected 20 million Igbo people.

And for an example of 'black' blondes without European ancestors:
This is a boy from the Solomon Islands, off of Australia

https://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/SolomonIslands/TheSolomonIslandsAndItsPeople/FairHairedMalaitanKidWithTattoo.jpg

You can argue that he has European ancestry, but European ancestry in 'black' people does not have this high frequency of blondes.
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-411158.0.html

Since the questions above signal the repetitiveness of this thread, I'll leave you with one answer so this thread can end:

"Its a project for the benefit of u and all nigerians that can afford to reside there."
- One of the "intelligent" "articulating" "well read" members of Nairaland.

TewMuch:
Do you think its every woman that would have been taken as a slave? What are concubines for? You think the white people hanging on the coast for months didnt have some means of entertainment? Especially in Igbo land with close proximity to port harcourt and all those coastal areas that had interaction with white people. You can even see the huge influence in Ijaw and Rivers peoples traditional hats.So it is very very likely that some people may have been mixed somewhere. Lets not even go into the time of missionaries. You think missionaries that spent sooo long teaching and introducing religion were celebate all through? haha

There was little to no 'mingling' and even if it happened, it was between the Europeans and the coastal peoples, e.g Kalabari, Opobo, Ibibio, Oron, Efik. The top hats were used by Europeans to trade for slaves, not because their father was English. If missionaries had children with the Igbo people, where are the Igbo people with European grandfathers, and even if you can find them, how does a handful of people affect over 20 million people? I know Igbo people who have light toned skin and "white features" whose ancestors have never met Europeans before, talk less of mixing with them. A significant amount of Europeans never even began to enter the interior of Igboland until around the mid 19th century, so where did all this mixing take place in places like Nsukka or Abakaleke?

TewMuch:
During the time of slavery You think white slavers did not despoil and have concubines in Africa? The Yoruba people with white features definitely had a white ancestor somewhere. If they had blonde hair (instead of African hair) and fairer skin they would be white.

Most Igbo villages keep an oral record of their ancestors, people on the Bight of Biafra didn't even mix with Europeans like other places, and the monarchs of the slave ports were well in control, unlike Elmina castle and the rest. Slave weren't răped and then released in what became Southern Nigeria, and then, what, did they randomly stumble into someones village, have the baby and then marry a freeborn? Please show me one Igbo man who's ancestry goes back to a European.

tpiah:
look, no need to panic.

doctors can change their professional opinion about something- no big deal.


google albinos and find out they can indeed have blue eyes. Babies' eye color can also change after some time, since you dont know.

platinum blonde hair is a characteristic of albinos- have you never met one?

Most Africans with albinism have yellowish hair, but forget it, people who studied medical science have said that this it is not albinism, so there is no argument.

TewMuch:
Trust me, some Igbo's do. Its obvious. A small minority of them are really light skinned. Sometimes even more lightskinned than the half casts i see in Nigeria that tan because of the sun. Although the girls tone to be that complexion. I also know some Yoruba's that have light eyes and white features. Both parents are Nigerian and have never travelled outside the country by the way.

Where did these white ancestors come from? There is no point in recent history where white people mixed with the Igbo population, and even genetics backs this up. Do the Yoruba people with "white features" have white ancestors?

tpiah:
^^have the doctors ever seen a newborn albino baby?

I expected something more intelligent, you're asking whether the doctors are aware of a medical condition? How many Albinos have 'blue' eyes with platinum blonde hair?

Can people please read:

[quote author=john_blaze link=topic=482345.msg6417395#msg6417395 date=1279627017][size=15pt]Doctors there told them she is not an albino.[/size]
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20100720/tuk-blonde-bombshell-black-couple-s-whit-45dbed5.html[/quote]

TewMuch:
Its obvious that some Igbo's have had white blood pass through them.The color of some of the chicks skin, aided by toneing of course.Its either both have a white ancestor and the recessive gene has shown up in their child. This is if the man is the baby daddy.Or their child was swapped at birth.

No "white blood", just genetic phenomenon.

PapaBrowne:
I believe there are ways to encourage private sector to invest in social projects and I also believe that it could be very profitable.
There is something called Social Entrepreneurship. It usually focuses on improving the lives of those at the bottom of the pyramid by creating products and services that are suitable to their condition.

The "intelligent" people said that is socialism, go back to page 1.

PapaBrowne:
Now the problem is that Nigeria is not ripe for such investments. No investor would put money into social housing when there is no mortgage system in the country. No investor would build hospitals for poor people when there is no reliable health insurance scheme in the country.

Exactly, if they haven't sorted all this out why are they jumping into a massive project to build luxury attractions, and with that same point how is Eko Atlantic going to eradicate poverty when the poor people themselves won't have hospitals or housing because the government hasn't sorted itself out? Or maybe Eko Atlantic would provide so much money to these poor people that they would be able to visit private hospitals? And what jobs would the majority do, Cleaning? Window wipers? Refuse disposal?

babapupa:
You  must have peeped this trough your futuristic crystal ball. The project is no where done but you already have a sad bad bele outlook and idea per what it's gonna look like.

Uhm, in case you did not understand, there is still going to be slum areas in Lagos when this project is finished, or maybe I'm wrong?

babapupa:
You really need to quit the charade and stop laying your objections on the backs of poor lagosians. From the meaningless and absurd rubbish you've been posting, it's more than obvious you have other silly and petty issues beyond Lagosians and EA.

It has become apparent that the post above is the only thing you have to contribute to this matter and that your main reason for defending this project is ethnically driven. A shame though.

A 5 year old can tour the streets of Lagos when this project is finished and we'll see if they'll be 'intelligent' enough to ignore the huge slum opposite Eko Atlantic. We can see Lagos is learning well from Mumbai so it's all good if the city matches anything foreign, next is Dubai! As for all of you calling people against your idea stupiid, good luck with you because you are obviously so brilliant as to work out things for the rest of us, even simple things we can see in front of our faces like how Eko Atlantic is going to do -natting- for Mainland Lagos except to expand 'big man' playground.

Wise Ones, when you're finished, go and build a yacht club in Makoko, Yes! But don't tell the investors what to do because you don't want socialism! They'll have to gradually work towards that for themselves, because there is no such thing as a deal or a partnership any more.

Toronto, Tokyo, New York, those are the places Lagos is on level with, obviously, with this project (and with the amount of "intelligent people" comparing the cities), so yes, carry on building and building away from anything that even looks like Mainland Lagos trying to avoid the problem. After all this is private and the government was so shocked when this project was proposed, I mean, they had no idea someone was going to come and rescue their lost coastline. They couldn't do anything but give away the Atlantic even if they didn't want to because they are not socialist! Good government!

We will all worship praise the government or shut up, if you are from another part of the country and you say anything that even sounds like criticism. . . . What!!!. . . .  . you are jealous!!! Lagos [s]Nigeria's commercial centre built and contributed to by every part of the country[/s] has nothing to do with you, like the intelligent "protagonist" (na story) have pointed out. Good, this is how other successful countries treat governments that are barely doing their job, if they make pretty pretty decorations, defend them at all cost, especially if all those "Eastern haters" are writing anything. No country that is successful ever criticises its government.

ow11:
A lot of untruths, speculations and misinterpretations have gone on on this thread over a topic NONE of the respondents is directly related to. African history is largely unwritten and we are all too aware of how oral stories can change over time.

How is all this not what I wrote?

ow11:
However @ezeagu, The story that some Africans went to study in England came back and gave their 'new' names to their communities is quite laughable to say the least. You quote from google books whose authors have probably done the same things respondents like Andre Uweh and Honeric01 have done on this thread which is speculations and extrapolations.

You went on to write a version of what I wrote. Is it a fact that the people changed their names after European contact. . . .

ow11:
European surnames in Rivers state for those that care to learn are from direct contact with European traders

. . . . . okay, right. Now how is this different from this?

ezeagu:
many of the 'New Kalabar' (Kalabari) inhabitants of those days were directly in contact with European sailors/slave traders, something not all were able to do. Many of the royal families made their ports available, and in return Europeans sometimes sent the slave traders children to Europe to study (read here), many of these people [as in Kalabari people in New Kalabar] changed their names or were working under Europeans when they changed their surnames to the common surnames found in Rivers and other States.

ow11:
Btw, Brass is in Bayelsa state and the port would have been a fishing settlement at  the time therefore, would be easy for people to call it after the products gotten at the port.

Brass didn't export brass, the brass pans were imported to the town by Europeans to trade for slaves.

ow11:
European surnames in Rivers state for those that care to learn are from direct contact with European traders and nothing more(I have earlier stated how this became the norm in page 1). . .I would use Abonnema to explain my point. This town was founded in 1882 well after slave trade was abolished by the Brits and the 11 founding chiefs already had European names. These Chiefs didn't go to England for studies but had parents who dealt in slaves. Today Abonnema has Four major compounds all with English names but beside them, you still see the Kalabari names of the Parents of the chiefs that founded the town. It is therefore left for people to keep the European surname passed down from 4 generations ago or go back to the original Kalabari name.

Don't you think you repeated my post with more words. . . . .

tpiah:
the two princes in question already spoke some english before they were kidnapped, due to their dealings with english slave traders [and also since they were slavers themselves]

the ghana link you posted doesnt say anything about the african women being married to european slave traders. ie the kids you mention, werent specifically said to be the children of slave traders.

When I said slave traders had their kids sent to Europe to study, I meant African ('Rivers') slave traders, the point of bringing it up was to show the early influence of Western education in what later became Rivers State which probably led to many name changes. The European slave traders didn't mix with the population of what became Southern Nigeria as much as in other places.

Ruq:
So why didn't our forefathers think of it until they were colonized?

Why didn't Europeans think of rap? All inventions go back to a more simpler design, the Europeans were in a geographical position that gave them more exposure to world knowledge, that is how they copied the gun from the Chinese.

ChinenyeN:
ezeagu, what more do you know about the script?

All I know is that it is paired with the Aniocha and it is said to be 'ideographic' which means the characters do not represent specific words or sounds but ideas, this is just someone's observation, it could be the opposite.

tpiah:
not sure if i'm reading you right, because the main characters in this book, were kidnapped partly as a result of intertribal warfare, and shipped to america and/or britain as slaves.

they [the two princes] were slave traders themselves, btw.

That was an example of forced education. Some slave traders sent their kids like those of Ghana

ChinenyeN:
ezeagu, I am aware of an Ngwa script, but I'm not familiar with it. I've asked around, but none of the people here in diaspora that I've spoken to are familiar with it. They've heard about it and some have seen it, but they aren't really familiar with it. I've been told that I have to visit ala Ngwa to really know.

That thing needs to be utilised. Developing the script and using it throughout Ngwa (alongside the Latin maybe) would be a big boost to the attractiveness of the language and culture. I hope someone records it before it's too late. . . . . . . anyway there's always Nsibidi.

---

'hn' (nasal?) is one of the things the Latin script fails to express.

Why are you guys attacking each other over useless Latin characters? There will never be a sufficient enough way to write Igbo in this script. Talking about script, ChineyeN are you aware of the Ngwa script. . . . . .

honeric01:
Guy, why are you confusing yourself? is eating with spoons a form of civilization or what are you driving at?

What are you saying now? It was you that said:

Ruq:
Y'all sayin poo about this isn't civilization's fault should stop sayin shwt! Morons! If it isn't why eat with a spoon? Twerps! Just say what you hate and love about it!

---

Mud House

https://business.outlookindia.com/dailyimages/200607/kamath.gif

honeric01:
Soup? now can you explain to me why they have decided to start using spoons to eat EBA, FUFU, AMALA and POUNDED yam?

So Africans never ate any soup or anything with a soup-like consistence? 

honeric01:
Is it not because the whites feels it's wrong to eat with your bare-hands?

"Whites" ate/eat toast, croissant, caviare, burgers, etc, with their hands. Some dipped bread into soup and ate.

https://www.bellewood-gardens.com/Bread%20with%20Soup.jpg

honeric01:
The big spoons was used to share soup in large quantity, not for eating.

Anywhere you got this information? Because the spoons I showed you are obviously big enough for only one person.

---

Is industrialization really civilisation?

[img]http://sun.menloschool.org/~sportman/modernworld/chapter8/2005/fblock/jmosbacher/industrial-revolution-children-labor.jpg[/img]

civ·i·li·za·tion
   /ˌsɪvələˈzeɪʃən/ [siv-uh-luh-zey-shuhn]
–noun
1. an advanced state of human society, in which a high level of culture, science, industry, and government has been reached.

from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/civilization

You people have been taught wrong.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days they depended on leaves for medicine: Civilization brought about Pharmacies[/quote]These same leaves are still used for "Civilization" pharmacies, including the ingredients from the chewing stick.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days we depended on the gods for justice: Civilization brought the judiciary (courts)[/quote]In places such as southeastern Nigeria, they had institutions such as Ekpe which was even called a 'Native court' by the British. Other 'native courts' included elder meetings.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days the worshipped the gods: Civilization brought us Christianity[/quote]Christianity is a bastardization of African beliefs. The Yoruba and Igbo had one God.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days we walked around butt Na.ked: Civilization brought us tight jeans (which is even worse)[/quote]How revealing is the Agbada or Ishiagu?

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days we walked miles to get water to drink: Civilization brought us pipe-borne water[/quote]Or there was the local stream which was a few meters away. Or is you lived in a city like Bini you could go to the nearest storage of water.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days we depended on masquerades, folktales and festivals for entertainment: Civilization brought us Big brother, MTV Base and cable T.V[/quote]Big brother = masquerades, MTV Base = festivals, Cable TV = folktales.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the day we used barter to do trade and commerce: Civilization brought us Cheque books, ATM cards and western union.[/quote]I doubt this is a barter:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e3/ManillaOkhapos.JPG/220px-ManillaOkhapos.JPG

Plus there were banks with savings, believe it or not.

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days we trekked miles to get from one place to the other (thereby keeping us fit and healthy): Civilization brought us cars, trains and planes (thereby making us lazy and fat)[/quote]The Oba of Benin would disagree with you.

https://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/Benin_City__ca__1600.jpg

So would the Nok man.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/A_man_ride_a_horse%2CNok_terracotta_figurine.jpg

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403610#msg6403610 date=1279402021]Back in the days we loved, craved and adored fat girls, Civilization brought us anorexia and bulimia.[/quote]Past tense? Some would disagree with you, and not all African/Nigerian cultures/'sub-cultures' adored big women.

honeric01:
Can you stick to one place? you said your ancestors had spoons, i asked you what they used their "spoons" for, were they using it to eat eba, fufu, pounded yam or what?

Soup? Heard of it? Here:

http://www.jacarandatribal.com/productdetails.php?productId=448&categoryId=23
http://www.jacarandatribal.com/productdetails.php?productId=394&categoryId=23

honeric01:
And your ancestors used spoon to eat EBA, FUFU, AMALA, POUNDED YAM right?

What does this have to do with them having spoons? People who own spoons today, do they not eats those foods with their hands?

[quote author=Okija_juju link=topic=480735.msg6403735#msg6403735 date=1279403360]they are relative[/quote][quote author=bk/babe90 link=topic=480735.msg6403752#msg6403752 date=1279403587]Sorry, kid, they indeed are relative![/quote]How?

Ruq:
Y'all sayin poo about this isn't civilization's fault should stop sayin shwt! Morons! If it isn't why eat with a spoon? Twerps! Just say what you hate and love about it!

This is why I asked what you believe civilisation is. You do know your ancestors had spoons, right?

Why would people not kidnap with the state of Nigeria today? How is one Igbo group responsible for all of Igboland's problems when armed robbers are coming from Arochukwu and Enugu State is just as bad if not worse than Abia with the rate of kidnappings? Is the Nigerian Police not being suspected of aiding the crimes?

People need to show respect to the Ngwa who have the most relevant Igbo city in their land right now apart from Port Harcourt (which is a 'no-man's-land' anyway), call it what you want.

@ Original poster.

Yes the names, and like someone posted, the hats and the names of some places are a result of slavery. I'll start with the names, many of the 'New Kalabar' (Kalabari) inhabitants of those days were directly in contact with European sailors/slave traders, something not all were able to do. Many of the royal families made their ports available, and in return Europeans sometimes sent the slave traders children to Europe to study (read here), many of these people changed their names or were working under Europeans when they changed their surnames to the common surnames found in Rivers and other States.

An example of a name change of a place is Brass. Brass in Rivers State is direct from slavery, because the Ijaw here used to trade human beings for brass and other items (read here). Some of these other items included guns, gunpowder, knives, and, yes, English hats. (read here)

Many people today take their grandfathers English first name and place it as their surnames, which sounds very wrong when you hear someone called Emeka David. Some of the Kalabari and other groups probably just changed their names to European on their own, why? Because they probably felt/feel that the Europeans were superior.

babapupa:
I know the usual suspects and their sad and pathetic playbook, especially the OP. They'll never start threads or say anything about the other side of the Niger and their backward existence over there, but they are ready to lose sleep and die over other people's state's and problems. Everyday, it's Lagos state, Ekiti, Akala and other ridiculous nonsense.

What about your own people? Don't you think they need the same attention and focus you needless shower everyday on other people?

The same OP once lampooned the Lagos state government for initiating electric vehicles. Just imagine. Just like their leaders, they lack vision.

[quote author=bk/babe90 link=topic=480529.msg6399710#msg6399710 date=1279339091]Whoa, chill!!! yOU Cant be referring to the almighty Biafrans as hypocrites! They just "looking out" for yall. . . . . . even if your area is more developed than theirs!!![/quote]Uhmm, perhaps you weren't paying attention but the name of the author of the original post is [size=15pt]Abimbola Adelakun[/size] please look for other excuses/scapegoats. Thank you.

What do you guys understand civilisation to be?

ziga:
Everything that happens in Lagos is always such a big deal.

Because it's the commercial centre of Nigeria . . . . . . . .