₦airaland Forum

Uyi Iredia: Okay thanks for the info. Now I came accross a criticism that the Kenyan soldiers had guns down and they should have pointed guns up so as to be able to respond quicker on seeing the enemy. Is this justified ?

Well I get your point, but any military has own culture of carrying riffles AK47 and the R4s are not the right kind of weapons to be used indoors, since they will tire you quickly when they are always held up high and there are special machine guns which are more lighter to be used under such situations. Infact, they are specifically designed to be used indoors and within vehicles because they are more portable and shorter to be used in confined spaces.

Uyi Iredia: The Nigerian military undertakes urban warfare operation with the Boko Haram. They do attack parts of important but lesser known towns in Nigeria's Northern region.

I mean urban warfare like in much bigger cities like Lagos and Abuja. Small towns also constitute urban warfare but not as challenging as when you will have to engage the enemy in mega cities with high skyscrapers and much bigger infrastructure. The enemy use such tall buildings as cover and hideouts and the encounter can even take longer when the enemy has taken in hostages. Ofcourse, you can only use limited fire since heavy firepower can demolish structures.

NaijaPikinGidi: Another idiotic comment from a laptop soldier! Have you seen war -- be it in urban or jungle terrain? Have you ever been on the battle front? Please shut up and take your novice talk elsewhere? Liberia was both urban and jungle! The NA operations against Boko Haram was once urban, became urban guerrela, and then jungle! The scars will tell the stories until death. But what can you show or boast of in urban or jungle warfare for SA? Think about your last statement that I struck through and come back with a self-corrected comment!

You don't get my point, I am specifically referring to the situation in Kenya where they are faced with a difficult challenge of their lives fighting the enemy in a confined space. I haven't commented anything about my combat experience concerning urban warfare, but the only thing that I was taught about was that is more toughest than bush or jungle war. It is always your 419 brain that gives you hallucinations.

Henry120: I've told you guyz multiple times, do not read reports from premiumtimesng or saharareporters.com and bring them as facts. Those news agencies report spurious lies with reckless abandon. Nigeria has one of africa's largest media, and the government only owns one TV station (NTA) and one online news agency ( NAN.com). The others are privately owned independent stations that are better, factual and un-biased. Quote sources like channels, guardian, thisdaylive.com, dailytrust etc etc, if you do not want to visit NAN.com. You cannot go about quoting premiumliars and saharadelusionist and expect nigerian responders to take you seriously.

There are no insurgent camps in the towns or cities. The boarder region is a vast desert wasteland, and the enemy can easily dis-appear into the terrain. The nigerian security services have been pursuing them, and they are on the run. The unfortunate incident of last week was a sad situation and nigerian security agencies are culpable in the deaths, but it was a soft random target, that could even have taken place in south africa.

I rely much on BBC and Aljazeera for information.

agaugust: see my friend, if you write this kind of answer in a standard military exam you will fail, unless maybe in a south african military exam anyway

you never use air attack on a jungle battlefield where there is close contact hand to hand fire-fight between both sides or else you will kill your own soldiers by friendly fire.

i have told you many times in this forum, jungle warfare....you dont see human beings from the air, so artillery and jets or helicopters will not see the target, they will just kill whatever they think is moving, including their own men.

there is something called ground operation 'surgical strike' in warfare. most of the boko haram were killed...about 50%....good enough for a jungle battle. nigeria lost 10% despite being outnumbered and boko haram was very much more familiar with that jungle terrain and will have secret escape routes and hiding places....caves and holes in the ground or mountains.

okay i will forgive your errors because you are a navy man...the ocean is an open 'field' in combat. jungle is closed up tight.

let me ignore the other part, i mean the vietnam rubbish you wrote above with wrong information, i know veterans of US army vietnam war with only one leg remaining...you dont meet them to hear the real history...or do you ?

In any war there is no soldier who fight alone. Soldiers fight in sections, platoons and battallion on an offensive order and formation. It is only special operatives who are independent from the orders of the commander since they are well trained to carry out operations on their own. The rest of the soldiers have to act under the command. Moreover it is very seldom that the enermy can come into close contact with the force on an open battlefield.

However, should the commander be under a heavy hostile firepower, he should make the means to withdraw his forces to give way for air strikes and call for an aerial support. He will have to communicate with the airforce and give the direction of the enemy by means of a clock. Many forces in such cases would wear their cap upside down to expose the reflecting colour under their caps or pluck a becon on their helmet to be recognised from above by their pilots. It will be then that their pilots will take their position in contrast with that of the enemy and start to scatter the enemy in disarray. Once the enemy is in disarray it will be easy to be defeated.

NaijaPikinGidi: What is tough about the current situation in Kenya if I may ask? It's a cordoned and isolated terrain where the Kenyan Army and military apparatus by far outnumber the terrorists. Look youngman ... have you ever been at the forefront of war or in a firefight before? I bet you ... Boko Haram will do much better than these AlShabab fighters. No pun intended!

Have you ever heard about urban warfare? It is even more complex than bush and jungle warfare because of its required close contact with the enermy. There are many soldiers who have been in the force for many years and quite a large portion had never undergone rigorous training in urban warfare because it is a specialised training. Military is not required to spray shoot around since there are many civilians loitering around. It poses a real challenge than a war on an open veld.

chris365: rubbish talk from a self acclaimed guard soldier

SA wasn't criticized for losing 13 men cos there must be casualties in war, but for aborting a retaliation for the death of your soldiers. there's a difference.

Don't let me to go back to those posts and repost them again to prove you all wrong. I really do no intend to break down all that sudden humble sprit you have grown to have.

NaijaPikinGidi: It seems my correlation of casualties got the better part of your weak thinking and comprehension capacities! I had predicted right! And you have proven me right! Death of civilians caused by Boko Haram is as criminal as death caused by gangsters on themselves and innocent civilians! I don't need to go off to provide you with alarming crime stats just recently (last week/early this week) released by your SA Police police chief! Lest you start scampering here and there ... my point has been made ... Kenya is fortunate in a sense not to be inundated by the level of ghost coordination Boko Haram exhibits. We are containing them and so far have made successes in moving the terrorists out of our more urban spaces to the remote fringes of the Northen hills and forests on the Camerounian/Nigeria borders. If the Camerounians were determined enough to press them from their side, you can be assured that Boko Haram would have been trapped and crushed in the centre of both military forces ... like hotdog between the two halfs of bread!

Then it only tells me that you are ignorant to as far as how crime statistics are recorded. War crimes are outside the boundries of one country and are instead put to record by international organisations. If you are killed in war your government will find it difficult to establish as to who specifically among the terrorists shot you so that he/she can be taken to court of law. Massacres caused by war are difficult to prosecute as murder by the court of law.

NaijaPikinGidi: Don't mind these South African laptop soldiers! By now it should be clear to them that the war on terror by the Nigerian army is not the hide and seek game that is playing out in the mall with very limited mobility for the terrorists and the army of Kenya even with the army having the obviously clear advantage in men, firepower, support and tactical positioning.

They fail to note that the terrorist happenings in Nigeria are on the fringes of rural nothern villages on the far flung border areas with a docile and non-challant Cameroun. They fail to note that intelligence operations in the major Nigerian cities have been solid such that bombings and terrorist attacks are hard to execute like in the past before the SoE. The areas of Boko Haram activities constitutes less than 0.01 percent of the Nigerian territory and the total number of civilian and military lives lost so far will still be dwarfed by total numbers of lives lost to crime and gang fights in SA.

There is some smoke in my house but my neighbour whose house is burning cannot mind his business. SMH.

I can see that this post of yours is marred by an exhibition of an utter misinformation. You cannot compare the muder statistics to terrorist massacres because it does not make any sense due to the fact that the crimes of the latter is not prosecutable. Aside from ongoing massacres, Nigeria has their own crime statistics particularly murder which is by far greater in numbers than that of South Africa. If you take into account the population of two countries you will come to the realisation that the percentages are what put SA in a bad light in respect of their small population. If it was possible that war and terrorist murders could have been counted for as homicide, no doubt that Nigeria could have topped the list.

agaugust: since you claim to have attended military academy, answer this question.

which operation is more difficult ?

100 nigerian soldiers vs 500 boko haram fighters in battle deep inside the jungles on top of 3,000 feet borno mandara mountain in nigeria

200 kenyan soldiers vs 20 al-shabab fighters in battle inside a single shopping mall in nairobi city.

could you just tell us which of the two operations is more difficult and why.

.

The Kenyan situation can never be ruled out to be one of the toughest to deal with since it has to do much with hostage taking. There is nothing so difficult to deal with terrorists who are taking in hostages and in most cases it requires forces who are highly trained in that expertise. It is very different when the enermy challenges you on an open battlefield where there are no any lives of hostages at stake.

chris365: i must say sir that this your post is filled with ignorant and immature statements.

Why shouldn't Nigeria compare itself to other countries? Were the IRA operating from SA? Are the indian MAOIST and other rebels operating from SA? Even Turkey had to beg the PKK to vacate turkish territory after decades of fighting them with superior fire power ten times more than Nigeria. What of MNLF of philipines? Are they operating from SA? Or indonesian terror groups? What of the all powerful AQIM? Are they operating from SA?

I can go on but you need to realize that all these countries i've mentioned are still struggling to defeat their insurgents. That should tell you that it's never easy to defeat terrorism internally or externally (US will give you a proper lecture on that).

You claim to be a soldier but too ignorant to know that insurgents also have their own kind of military fatigue. Boko haram is still confined to border communities. If not, you would have heard of attacks in commercial commercial cities like kenya and Uganda. That should tell you how good our intelligence system and security forces are.

Even SA couldn't defeat ANC (a less deadly group) for decades. So WTH are you talking about Nigeria not to compare it's situation with other countries.

I have said this millions a times that the ANC was not a terrorist group but a political party that was denied its rights to represent their people in a free and fair election. They were forced to take up arms and form their military wing to rebel the apartheid government. The apartheid regime which was not in favour of the majority of the citizens of SA succeeded in pushing the ANC out of the borders of SA and even chased them out of the territory of neighbouring countries forcing them to settle in Zambia far away from the borders of SA. The apartheid regime raided Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique to stage attacks on ANC (MK) operatives and would çladenstinely deploy to such countries anyday they pleased without any approval from the president of such countries.

The ANC did not defeat the apartheid goverment, it's the people of SA who did the rest of the job. Everyday they gave the murderous apartheid regime headache by ongoing demostrations, protests, riots, bombings of government buildings, killing of informants and burning alive of black police officers, etc. All that was done by ordinary citizens just like in Egypt and the government did not have any choice but to back off . Since the series of events had already reached international news platform, the racist regime could not unleash heavy firepower in the form of chemical warfare like in the case of Syria. Apartheid government had many chemical weapons in their arms inventory.

In relation to terrorism, let us stop beating about the bush and face the facts. Nigeria should have pushed the BH out of their borders long ago if they were said to be all powerful like they were professed to be on this very page some while ago before the state of emergency was declared. In terms of what was written here we should have experienced a completely different game and instead we saw the contrary to what was originally said. SA was criticised badly for losing 13 of their men against the seleka rebels and little did we know that Nigeria is even in the worst position than the former. Nigeria had never been on an encounter with the enermy in a one on one situation ever since the heydays of Biafra and judging them on the records of peace keeping missions was very untenable. It had really indeed left a lot to be desired for.

agaugust: https://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02679/nairobi-7_2679191b.jpg



[size=14pt] Kenya's army continues to battle islamic terrorists in shopping mall



i am surprised that all the south africans here are not shouting to call Kenya's army incompetent and defeated

if it was nigeria ? we know what soweto fools will say....

anyway, south africa cannot do better than others if islamists attack shoprite johannesburg

if south african army intervene in somali conflict....then you will know how 'safe ' johannesburg will be soon

[/size]

http://www.france24.com/en/2min/20130923-liveblog-kenya-nairobi-mall-siege-shabaab


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl9_uteuZuI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AHyQ4xJGy8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQ4MmRaax0

There is no an ongoing insurgency in Kenya and with just a single episode of attack, it will be premature to start to judge. Unlike in Nigeria were attacks on civilians are just the order of the day and security forces can't seem to do anything about it; insugents are sharing the same country with security forces with their camps situated right in the jurisdiction of Nigeria; some are even boldly driving about on military amoured vehicle and wearing the same military uniform as that of security forces; and currently, nothing seems to have been done to drive them out of the borders of Nigeria.

Nigeria should stop comparing themselves to the US and the UK in dealing with terrorism because the former had a completely different situation to that of Nigeria. The enemy was not within the boundaries but operating from outside with casual attacks carried out on civilians. Ofcourse, the enemy wouldn't dare to set up operational camps in the same territory as that of such superpowers unless they run the risk of being extinct earlier than they should. In the mighty Naija is a completely different senario where the enemy challenges the owner in a fight in his own compound. What aches my heart the most is that the enemy is even wandering about, roaming free and harrassing the villagers anyhow they please by staging consistent attacks as if they are just walking on the park. At some stages military was reported to have ran out of ammunition and instead alerted the community to run for their dear life out of the enemy's reach.

Henry120: Anyone noticed , since the start of the siege on the kenyan mall, @craigB has suddenly disappeared from nairaland. My thinking is that Craigb might actually be among the attackers currently corned by FN SCAR-H wielding kenyan special forces in the westgate mall. I just can't phantom why he forgot to carry @mike..ZA along

As for @fighterpilot, when infant terrible, julius malema comes to power as the president of "zuid efrika", he would be shipped to mumbai to meet his ancestors

The people of SA are very sane up stairs and will never in any day crown Julius Malema as the president of South Africa. Even if Julius becomes the president, he will never in his thousands dreams carry out such a s.tupid agenda of shipping back the bona fide citizens of SA back to their ancestral land. That will be very s.tupid because it will mean that he will have to drive over 8 million whites, 3.5 million Indians, and over 5 million coloureds to the sea. Moreover, such a major drive will never leave behind over 3 million Zimbabweans and hundreds of thousands of Nigerians to see the day. Aside from the aforementioned foreigners there are still millions more from various countries across the world. It means they will all have to be thrown to the sea.

The Denel's seeker 400 heavily loaded with two mokopa missiles on a battle mode.

http://www.uasvision.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Denel_seeker_400.2.jpg

Of all UAVs manufactured by Paramount Group, I am very much fascinated by Sentinel-LE. I head it does a great job in terms of battlefield surveillance and correcting artillery fire.

http://www.paramountgroup.biz/en/unmanned-aerial-vehicles/sentinel-le

NaijaPikinGidi: You claim my intelligence is misinformed, but you have not told us why it is so! Would you like me to provide data to illustrate my comments? You seem to be pointing at the smoke in your neighbour's backyard while your's is catching fire!

Your assertions does not have any bearing to objectivity. It is baseless and merely seeks to scare the people of SA for no good cause. There will only be terrorism in SA if it is successfully organised by @NaijapikinGidi with the aim of leveling the score among the two giants of Africa. The Muslim community of SA will never support it nor the whole population of SA. We will root it out to the bottom and prosecute those who are involved. Our security agencies will pursue the perpetrators and even to their hideouts, irrespective of whether will be in the jurisdiction of SA or not.

NaijaPikinGidi: No qualms. The world is not ending in a hurry. You will not know about muslims in Durban, until they act in their numbers. Do you know what goes on in Overport, Durban ... Sparks Road to be specific? Look, young man ... I am not about to be the doomsayer ... neither will I share any internal information. Let time reveal all.

Tick, tick, says the clock ... tick, tick ... what you have to do ... do quick!

Cheers!

Please sir, your intelligence is misinformed, try something else. I have been studying situation in Nigeria very closely where is said to have been ruled by Muslim kingdom in medival times just before colonisation arise. The Northern part of Nigeria has such history of Muslim kindoms which now insurgents wants to revive. Do not confuse the situation in SA with that of Nigeria. The US has Muslim population greater than that of South Africa, but none of them had ever been associated to terrorism other than those who acquired citizenship. They condemn terrorist activities wholeheartedly.

NaijaPikinGidi: Ain't you just a numbskull? Must you speak when actually silence from you would be a better proposition?



Tick, tick says the clock ... tick, tick ... what you have to do ... do quick!

Your intelligence is grossly misinformed. Durban does not pose any threat at all. South African based Muslims were among the heros who faught hard against the apartheid government and many of them have even called for this constitution that we have today. Durban is predominantly Christian followed by Hindu and Muslim and majority of Muslims are situated in the western cape. I am originally from KZN and you will never come to tell me anything about Durban which you know nothing about. If there can be any terrorism in SA it will not come from our SA based Muslim brothers but foreigners.

zetdee: Here is another defence company , www.tellumat.com/defence.. in Retreat Cape Town
I did my inservice-training there last semester for 2 months, but left.

The list is actually endless, I forgot also to include Aerosud http://www.aerosud.co.za/ the civil-military company famous to have designed and manufactured the interior of the new military airbus A400M. They also have the latest upgraded version of mirage F1.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerosud

NaijaPikinGidi: What makes you think that other Islamists are not articulate, literate, and sophisticated? They are by far more scientifically and technologically intelligent and literate than yourselves based on the kind of responses you make here! Learn from the unfolding situations of USA, Britain, India, Nigeria, and Kenya! How much more sophisticated could the the 911 attacks have been? How much more sophisticated could defying security forces in the latest attacks in Kenya have been? The days of reckoning are not far off. When SA dreams of projecting power and might ... these (insurgents and terrorists) will be the test of your enduring power! For now ... watch, learn, practice and pray!



https://nan.jarapages.netdna-cdn.com/media/W1siZiIsImE3NDY3ZGYyMWM3Y2U0YzhiMzg4MDMzOTFiOWY0NzUwLmpwZyJdLFsicCIsInRodW1iIiwiNzIweCJdXQ/a7467df21c7ce4c8b38803391b9f4750.jpg

Nigeria and Kenya ... I hail. May the souls of the innocent departed rest in peace. We will overcome!

I am speaking on African perspective. America and UK are attacked based on their projection as superpowers. Nigeria and Kenya are attacked probably on account of the large number of Muslims which is reported to level the number of Christians in their respective country. Some of those Muslim they feel as if they are being marginalised by Christians of forcing them to live under their rule. They cannot come to terms with the reality behind the adoption of the constitutional democracy that it does not favor any religion but only tries to maintain balance among people of different religion. They perceive constitution merely as a tool of Christians and particularly the western of forcing them to denounce their Islamic religion. The extremists do not believe that humans have the right of choice in respect of religious affiliation and are under the impression that Islam is the only way to God.

Their continuous attacks on innocent civilians is very wrong and I don't think there is any religion in the world which advocates to the killing of innocent people. Even under sharia, it is only the guilty who are persecuted and the innocent will always have their lives spared. Why can't they attack politicians who make and promulgate laws and spare the lives of the people. Innocent civilians for which many of whom have never touched even the walls of parliament are being sacrificed and slayed for no apparent reasons. Why all this?

NaijaPikinGidi: AndrewZA ... knowledge and experience from my work background tells me that no country is safe. Especially a country with a measure of muslim population. We know the trends in the continent especially with regard to extremist attacks on countries who have led strong Military interventions against political or islamist rebellions across the continent. Nigeria and Kenya are paying the real price for our true and collective efforts to ensure freedom across Africa. That's why the cowards will only attack and kill defenceless civilians.

Religion is the opium of the masses! Let the discerning eyes and ears observe and remember these words: Durban, South Africa is evolving!

There is also one thing you should look at, SA Muslim community are very articulate, educated and sophisticated. Majority have adopted western education and are not against it either. The problem comes to this ones who have never been to school only because they were told that western education is a sin. Education is the only weapon that can be used to change the world and those who never received it run the risk of being recruited to those terrorist groups because they will be taught that wrong is right. They will be told that the enermy are those who have attended western education which is viewed as satanic to them.

Grintek makes its mark for developing a LEDS 150 (Land Electronic Defence System) a self-defence system for armoured vehicles which will help to detect incoming missiles and grenades and automatically fire a small interceptor missile which will destroy the incoming weapon( grenade or missile). Now they seek partnership, I wish Denel can partner them.

http://m.engineeringnews.co.za/article/saab-grintek-defence-seeks-partner-for-high-tech-protection-system-2013-07-16

South African defence industries:

Local:
-Denel (state owned) http://www.denel.co.za/

-Paramount group (private) http://www.paramountgroup.biz/en

-Reutech, (private) http://www.reutech.co.za/

-Grintek, (private) http://www.gew.co.za/ and http://www.saabgroup.com/en/Markets/Saab-South-Africa/

- Reva, (private) http://www.revaarmoredvehicles.com/

-Milkor. (private) http://www.milkor.co.za/

-ATE (private)

-Damen defence shipyard (private) http://www.damen.co.za/en/news/deliveries/2006/02/indlovu

-Truvelo (private) http://www.truvelo.co.za/armoury/

Foreign:
-BAE systems
-Saab
-Rheinmetall
-Zeinn
-Siemens
-Thales
-

agaugust: their is only one DENEL CIWS gun on a whole valour frigate, and it is located at that one single side....how will it stop an anti-ship missile coming at its back, front, or the other unprotected side of the warship...or 4 NNS Aradu Otomat missiles coming the same time from all 4 directions ?

does your brain work ? or you are a policeman talking on a military thread/forum ?

.

The Denel dual purpose gun does not need to be more because of this technology below which I have quoted from wikipedia:

In the anti-missile role it uses Advanced Hit Efficiency And Destruction (AHEAD) ammunition from RWM Schweiz AG.[3] This round ejects 152 tungsten projectiles at a predetermined distance, between 40 and 10 m, from the target. A 25-round burst of AHEAD rounds produces 3,800 times 6.04 = 23104 of these small projectiles to destroy the incoming missile.[4] Cruise missiles can be destroyed at 2.5 km and high speed missiles at 1.5 km range (quote closed)

Remember that any missile can be exploded by even a bullets from an ordinary gun. It does not have to come to contact with any impact irrespective of how big a missile is. Now imagine how will any missile manage to manuevre 23104 projectiles shot at its direction with just a single shot? That is for your home assignment to do.

andrewza: Finland a country that mad made the USSR cry in fear, a country where one of there solders disabled a tank with a spanner

Algeria a nations who defeated France, had a problem with insurgents but put it down. Those countries have a history of war and the only resoane they not at war now is because they have smart leaders. Only a fool brags about military conquest

Did you know FN a Belgium company created a lot of the worlds weapons. FN Fal was called the right arm of the free world. When was there last war

You have said it all. I was about to come to that to prove @Agaugust wrong.

agaugust: i wont repeat the same post i made early this morning...Otomat drops to 6 feet at far off 6km away from the enemy ship on its own if left alone, however as a guided missile, the launcher will maneuver to avoid enemy conuter attack it as a guided missile if any threat of enemy defense is sighted on NNS Aradu long range 180km radar, Otomat is NOT restriced to fire and forget, it is long range and very well guided by the launch officer in fire control....

ALL AMERICAN NAVY WARSHIPS ANTI-MISSILE DEFENCE MISSILES AND CIWS GUNS FAILED TO STOP THE OTOMAT ANTI-SHIP MISSILE IN THE PUBLISHED AMERICAN TEST AS OTOMAT PENETRATED THE POWERFUL AMERICAN MISSILE DEFENSE SYSTEMS AND WEAPONS

....you cannot even think well again...Otomat has now s..cattered your south african brain

you lose south africa...you lose this Otomat argument again today.

.

Is good to know how weak American defence missiles are, but surely Americans will never like that statement you have written above. Then, it means with otomat you can down all US navy's ships in one day

You can keep on changing topic like underwear, but the fact remains Umkhonto will shoot down Otomat. You can try as hard as you can to make your otomat look invincible, but it cannot survive a hit from Umkhonto. Umkhonto has a sensitive head which detects the position from the moment of fire and the infrared (IR) homing mechanism will thereafter pursue the target like a magnet. The umkhonto head is attracted to many warheads including those that are rare. It doesn't matter how low the target will fly, the umkhonto will pursue it because of lock-on mechanism.

This is final, you wanted us to proof to you with sources that umkhonto can shoot down sea skimming missiles and we did just that. Now you come with something else which does not make any sense. Why can't you accept that you are beaten or do you feel that your honour will be at stake.