₦airaland Forum

cutecommend:
It is very important I help you this morning so that you won't be living in false confidence while moving on the wrong path.

The truth is that if anyone dies now with any sin, they are going straight to hell; whether they are sinners or believers. But if you accept Jesus Christ and repent before dying or before rapture, you will make heaven. Someone's last state before they die or before rapture, determines their going to heaven. And going to heaven requires no sin in you at your last state on earth.

It is only Jesus Christ that takes one to heaven. If you are morally upright without sin and yet do not accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal Saviour, you cannot make heaven. And if you are a Christian and you do not ask for pardon on any known or unknown sin before you die or before rapture, you cannot make heaven.

The purpose of God implanting sanctification and holiness in people is to make them live lives without sin.

While there is heaven for Christians who will die in the great tribulation for refusing to comply with the anti-christ: this is after rapture, I tell you this truth: SIN TAKES A MAN TO HELL.

It is a beautiful Sunday. Please pray quickly, accept Jesus today and repent from all sins. Also attend a Bible-believing church.

First thing that is wrong is that neither Jesus nor the apostles taught pre-tribulation rapture. No one would be saved after Jesus has taken God's people.

Second thing that is wrong is that the command and the gospel is to repent, there is no special condition that saves a man because he calls Jesus lord lord, so even those who did not know Jesus would be sanctified by the blood of the lamb of God because they genuinely repented and did what was right as God said, He is faithful and just to forgive.

While the knowledge of Jesus empowers us to serve God, it is Jesus who sets free those whom God brings to him. And God will never destroy the righteous with the wicked.

Third thing that is wrong only, Jesus died without sin, we all will have one fault or the other that is why salvation isn't by our sole effort and why the blood Jesus is needed for all who live a life pleasing to God.

God is not a religion, he is merciful and just, His eyes see the heart of all men and call them to Himself. And the good news is that God gives eternal life to all who obey the teachings of Jesus to love others, whether they know Jesus or not. Even those in remote villages are saved because of God's mercy not because of an evangelist. But we evangelize so that men may repent, for the call is to sinners and not to those already doing what is right and to whom the promise belongs. To them we encourage to continue that the reward for their good deeds is with God along with the gift if eternal life purchased by the blood of Jesus.

yommen:
I know there will be comments from idiots. At least, this is not like the people of the other prophet that was busy lashing every woman around him alongside a 9 year-old girl and his daughter-in-law.

guy you need Jesus in your life

If only we could ask questions during church services like when Jesus taught, well they call that Sunday school or bible study were there are few people and so little time spent compared with the time some messages are preached.

But sadly some to home with more questions and may not even have access to their pastors to ask for clarification later on about what they said and taught.

Imagine if some men or women could be questioned in their churches about what they teach just as Jesus was questioned.

Imagine the amount of questions Jesus faced and answered and the amount of revelation and insight gotten because he not only taught with authority but he answered with God's wisdom.

I am afraid if such were the case in some churches, they would be exposed for be fraudulent, fake and false.

iLoveYouToo:
She was 65 when they got married. Channel your advise to 65 years old single women

😅

Karleb:
We should commend a woman for taking care of her rich husband.

Abegii

😅

Segxydube:
Must you comment without ur brain working?

And so, Why is this a story now?


Make it your goal to live a quiet life, minding your own business and working with your hands, just as we instructed you before.

1 Thessalonians 4:11

Discountsempai:
The woman was a long time friend of Kumuyi and his late first wife.(they went way back, right from before Kumuyi founded his church). I don't think she was based in the UK though.

thanks for the clarity

jesusjnr2020:
What God Gave To Adam When He Was Lonely

God gave Adam a woman not a man.

Genesis 2:18 (KJV)

And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Genesis 2:21-22 (KJV)

And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God bless.

it's strange how because of this "gift" Adam was punished for listening to her

immaculatesense:
Smile. I will continue to show my respect sir. What lie sir? The the Father is the One True God? That Jesus is divine and has been raised by God to the God class where all kneels in heaven and on earth should bow and worship before him? What area is the lie sir, is it me pointing it out that the Father, his son and his spirit are one (united in purpose and will) but distinct in authority, nature and role? That the Father is above and superior to the son and the son to the spirit? Tell me my lies sir. That Jesus is divine or a divinity or a deity and his life did not begin just when he was born like you and I? Pls point the lies out in all these my submissions.
Thanks.

the lie is that there is nothing like "God class", Jesus is human and not divine nor God, though he is not human like us who came from dust but he is man from God. He is worshipped as king and lamb of God and not as a god.

Yes your lies are that Jesus is divine, a divinity, a diety those are your lies and your accusations against Christ Jesus the son of the living God

Ok, was the criteria for the marriage because she was an old virgin based in the UK?

Was it God directed or research directed 🤔 because I wonder how many old virgins they found.

Well I pray such miracles occur for our Nigeria single elderly women as well, it's not good to grow old alone.

Omooba77:
How close is your house to Church?

😁 it's in my house

NO, the true church of Jesus is not the problem but those who are false, like the fig tree deceiving others that they have fruit but leaving those who go to them as hungry as they came.

Those churches that are den of thieves instead of places of genuine prayer to God, where people do not sincerely repent and turn to doing what is right. Places that encourage laziness and a religious nature of waiting on God to please their flesh and they pray amiss instead of receiving power to work hard and make wealth.

Churches that rob the poor and side with the wicked politicians while honoring them but disregarding those who need help. Who preach all kinds of lies and prophecy peace instead of repentance. Places where the power of salvation which is from the gospel is absent. Those places are part of the problem in Nigeria.

Rom.8.18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

Kaycee9242:
Pope should resign and take care of his health na

do Popes resign isn't it till they die before they elect another one

StillDtruth:
Hebrews 1: 4

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

and yet in the same Hebrews you read hebs 2:7-9 Jesus was made lower than the angels

1 Peter 3:3-4 The Passion Translation (TPT)
Let your true beauty come from your inner personality, not a focus on the external. For lasting beauty comes from a gentle and peaceful spirit, which is precious in God's sight and is much more important than the outward adornment of elaborate hair, jewelry, and fine clothes.

1Tim.2.9-10 And I want women to be modest in their appearance. They should wear decent and appropriate clothing and not draw attention to themselves by the way they fix their hair or by wearing gold or pearls or expensive clothes. For women who claim to be devoted to God should make themselves attractive by the good things they do.

immaculatesense:
Sir, with all due respect, you know this is not true. The passage was clear. That passage like any other passages show the divinity of Jesus before his earthly birth. Jesus was with the Father at creation before the creation itself began. I have made my points, it is not to convince you but to share my thoughts. You have shared yours and u are well respected and celebrated. Thanks.

why not state clearly what is not true

Is it that John wasn't Hebrew or that he didn't believe in one God
Or is it not true that the word is the spoken word that came from God that manifested and became flesh.

Honestly I do not need your celebration nor respect nor appreciation, especially when what is needed understanding and honesty.

You first accuse a person of purposely lying, "you know it is not true" then you celebrate one you believe to be a liar... 😟

immaculatesense:
Good. Now I understand ur view cos I have been lost. Didn't know ur standpoint until now.
You said Jesus was not equal with God. Let start with that. I hope before you give an answer you must have considered different passages of scriptures. Though you gave a distorted explanation of John 1, but let's see your interpretation on being equal with God using Philippians 2:5-11. Pls explain the passage to us.
Thanks

distorted because it is different from the lie you have been fed with?

immaculatesense:
You have successfully derailed this platform from its original purpose. Let's go back to the thread cos I don't like vague discussion.
The op asked three questions and I provided answers. Let's see any of my answer you disagree with and let's know ur viewpoint, because currently I am not sure what ur stand is.
OPS QUESTIONS
1. Is Jesus God?
2. Is Jesus equal to the Father?
3. Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural?

MY ANSWERS
1. Jesus is god (elohim/theos), but Jesus is not the Father.
2. Jesus is equal with the Father but no equal to the Father as the Father as exalted him to be in charge of his creation and to sit with him on his throne (equal with the Father) but he is subject to the Father and his will is subject to the will of the Father and the Father is above him (not equal to the Father).
3. The Trinity message is scriptural only to Salvation as the Father (1) sent the son (2) and the Father through the son sent the holy spirit (3) who together united in purpose help mankind to achieve or attain the salvation of God. But the Father is Supreme Over the son as the son is supreme over the spirit. The three are united in purpose but distinct in authority and roles.

Those are my points and I supported them with scriptures in my first response to the op. If you have any issues with any of the above, be specific, let's not derail the thread on a side topics. Thanks.

You may have made a mistake in this post, as you wanted to write like you previously did that Jesus is equal to God but not equal to the Father, but both statements are incorrect and are not God's word. Jesus is neither equal with God not with God as there is only one God who is our Father, YHVH.

The OP asked a rhetorical question of which he answered a capital NO. Between you and I who do you think derail the original purpose of the thread? With your own deviating answers?!

You are insisting on what you are saying without neither understanding the post nor scripture. Have you not also deviated from scripture as well?

immaculatesense:
Sir, why all this back and forth? If you dispel Jacob, can you also dispel Manoah and his wife in Judges 13:22 or Abraham in Genesis 18:16-33?
You mentioned Moses. Let me ask you. Do you believe Moses saw the back of the Father? Because if you see my back, you have seen me. And Jesus said 'No man has seen the Father AT ANY TIME except the son who comes from the Father.' The Father never comes to the realm of men, he only send his messengera in his name to act in his stead before the sons of men. Moses only said the fullness of the Father's glory revealed in the angelic glory of the angels whom the Father has put in charge of the Israelite. Moses never saw the Father. Not him, not any before nor after him till date. Not even Stephen in his vision nor John of Patmos in his revelation.

dispel? In simple terms, Jacob did not fight with God, in fact the genesis account in chapter 32:24 calls the being A MAN, who was the one who gave him the name Israel.

Using that because Jacob makes the phrase that he has seen God face to face, the same phrase used by God concerning Moses who He said He speaks to face to face, and you suggest it is because angels are referred to as god is a wrong use of scripture which I pointed out to you in that post

Now you ask me if Moses saw the back of God, when you separate God from the Father, and refer to angels as god...

Let's read it
I said God descended, Exodus 34:5 YHVH descended in the cloud, stood with Moses and passed in front of Moses. Moses heard but yet according to Exodus 33:18-23, Moses asked to see God's glory and God said He will make His goodness pass before Moses but Moses will not see His face for God will cover him with his hand while He passes by and will remove His hand so Moses sees God's back but not His face.

This same being is the one whom Jesus sits at His right hand.

Your answer is yes Moses saw the back of YHVH the one true God, that revelation made Moses face glow in verse 29.

You say Jesus said no man has seen God, that is true no one has seen God the way he has, He, God, is always covered in cloud, even when He spoke to Job who claimed that now He has seen God, does that make Job a liar? No, it doesn't. Neither does the account of the elders who ascended with Moses in Exodus 24, liars for saying they saw God, even though they probably did not see God's face.

Jesus was not a man when He saw God's face, after all Matt. 18.10 says the angels see the face of God

immaculatesense:
Okay sir. Can you explain in your own way- John 1:1. I am listening since you claim that the word of god (theos) is not god (theos). I am waiting. Because I have explained how Jesus is god but not the Father but you said no. Explain John 1:1 in your own way. I am listening.

You either believe God who revealed that He is the only true God or believe Jesus the son of God who revealed that God our Father is the only true God.

Now about John 1:1
The word from God is a revelation of God.

If the word logos is speech and spoken. So in the beginning was the utterance, and that utterance was according to God, the accusative noun, referring to the one who brought about the word. In the Greek text the nominative noun changes from the word to God. John writee theos en ho logos.

A nominative noun is the subject of conversation.

If the subject we are talking about is God, then John is saying theos en ho logos. Is to answer what was revealed from the beginning. If one is talking about a word, you would have to ask, what is he word about, who spoke the word, when was it spoken. And John answers that. In the beginning it was spoken, it was God who spoken the word and the word was about God.

Theos being nominative suggests that the word belongs to God and is from God so instead of saying the word was God, we should simply say the word is God's or God's word for it is from Him and about Him.

If not you confuse yourself by suggesting that John Hebrew who believe in one God was saying that God was God and was with Himself and He became flesh and dwelt among men and came to reveal Himself to men but this contradicts the very word of God that reveals God the one true God who is above all and sent forth His word. And like verse 14 records, the revelation became flesh and dwelt among men

immaculatesense:
Though the question was not directed to you but I respect your input. But you did not anstmy question? Was 'elohim' in Psalm 8:5 the same as 'angelos' in Hebrews? I believe it's a straight forward question.

if you understood my response would you be repeating the question?

immaculatesense:
So, if you know me, you will know I rarely talk and I don't like back and forth. I have Hebrew and Greek scriptures. I don't like picking errors, but I rather ask questions. According to your rebuttal in your first paragraph, just two quick questions. (1) Verse 1. Why were the 'gods' called an 'heavenly court' if they are not heavenly beings? (2) Verse 6. Why were the 'gods' referred to as the 'chikdren of the Most High' if they were not heavenly beings?
On your second paragraph. It is true that angels do not refer to themselves as 'elohim' except in the case of Moses, but that aside. If that is your point, it can be used against you by those who do not believe that Jesus is God. Because Jesus never referred to himself as 'theos"- god. Not even 'son of god". He humbling calls himself 'the son of man' and messenger of god.
John 17:3
[3]And this is the way to have eternal life—to know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, the one you sent to earth.
But we know that he is god (divine/deity).
Thanks.

Is this a response to me writing, "Psalm 82 isn't the acknowledgement of gods which the Torah rejects..."? Or is it an error?
Now for your question
"Why were the 'gods' called an 'heavenly court' if they are not heavenly beings?" Not sure from what translation you are asking this question but it should be about Psalm 82:1 right?
But how I am supposed to tell you why an English translator translates the Hebrew the way they did when I am not them?

Now verse 6, I said gods you are and children of the Most High you all are, verse 7 but like men you shall die...


That verse 6 wasn't a commendation but a rebuke. You claim to be gods but you are all my children, both Satan, Lucifer and all of them, who claim to be gods who are being judged in Psalm 82 in God's congregation, did you read the previous verses before verse 6?

You ask if they were heavenly beings, is it because I said even men claimed to be gods? Was that a lie? Dont men as well as false entities claim to be God?

I do not know what you mean by except in the case of Moses, or was there an angel who claimed to be God to Moses? Or are you calling the burning bush God or what?

You claim something can be used against me, how can that be when there is no record of such, of an angel of God calling themselves God and also Jesus did not claim and even admitted to be the Messiah who is the son of God. Saying that Jesus never called himself the son of God is a lie either born of ignorance of the gospels or deception.

immaculatesense:
Smile. I respect your taught but you need to broading your view. I don't hold a doctrinal point of any church, I stand on the scriptures even if it opposes the standpoint of my church. I am loyal to the scriptures and not to denomination because of you are loyal to a denomination, your view will be influenced and you will not be objective in your view. My close associates are jw and they know me, I respect their view but when I talk they know I speak to issues objectively. You AV read my comments before some years back, I just stayed away for personal development.
Maxim, let me ask you a simple question that will confuse you.
Explain the difference between these two verses of the same origin and meaning, but different in just one word.
Psalm 8:5 and Hebrews 2:7
Psalms 8:5
[5]Yet you made them only a little lower than God (elohim)
    and crowned them with glory and honor.

Hebrews 2:7
[7]Yet you made them only a little lower than the angels (angelos)
    and crowned them with glory and honor.

You know I don't like back and forth, tell me why the psalmist used (god)- elohim-, and the writer of Hebrews while making reference to the psalmist changed it to (angels)- angelos. Does it mean that the psalmist and the writer of Hebrews viewed angels as 'elohim' (god) or the writer of Hebrews was trying to correct the psalmist? I will go with the first. Let's hear ur own view on this two same but distinct verses.

there are two translations of psalm 8:5, the Septuagint which is the Greek translation of the Hebrew text which was popular at that time and the Masoretic text, which has the term me-elohim. So it isn't about the author of Hebrew correctly the scripture but teaching based on what they themselves have been taught. For example the author places the altar of incense at the most holy place instead of the holy place

immaculatesense:
I respect your view sir. In my explanation I have proven three things. (1) The word 'elohim' god was a general word for 'divinity' at the time. You can agree with me on the basis of Jacob and Manoah that I quoted. (2) I showed from scriptures that Jesus was divine even before his birth and has been with the Father even before the foundation of the word- John 17:5. He is god (elohim/divine/deity). (3) That the Father is supreme and superior to the son- Jesus. That Jesus himself showed that he is subject to the Father in all things. He called the Father his God and derived his authority from his father- John 20:17.
Conclusion: Jesus is god and above all, except the Father who is above Jesus and above all.- I Corinthians 15:27-28
That is the position of the scriptures. I am Pentecostal and I am loyal to the scriptures and not denomination.

That's why I wrote on that thread the term and usage of Elohim needs to be properly understood.

When you say 1. The elohim was a general Hebrew term to reference divinity we also need to understand it was used to specifically teach that there is only one true Divine while the rest were false.

And we know that some of God's sons fell and started playing God on the earth. Now we have to consider that the very first commandment and decree from God is to denounce any other God. You shall have no other god/elohim besides me. Of which is became blasphemy and idolatry to consider anyone or anything God or Divine asides from God Almighty YHVH.

There also no where in scripture where God ascribes divinity to His word, either directly nor through His prophets. Nor does He in anyway suggest that His word is God even when He promises to send the Messiah.

Jesus is king anointed by God and made so by God, he was never anointed nor appointed a god nor a divine

immaculatesense:
Good. You are correct sir. I believe you have at least some knowledge of Hebrew language. The Hebrew word-'elohim' means god, divine, deity, or supernatural. They use the same word for angels as in the case of Jacob who said he fought against god (elohim-) and prevail but we know that he fought not against the Father but angel, as no man can fight against the Father and win. Also in the case of Manoah and his wife, they saw an angel and they said they would die because they have seen god, but we know that wat they saw was an angel and not the Father.
Maxim. Do you believe in the divinity of Jesus before he was born? I mean do you believe that he has been in existence before his birth or that his life began at his birth?
If you do, in which I know you do. Why don't you then agree with me that Jesus is god (elohim, deity, and divine) from the standpoint that the word 'elohim' is use for divinity, but he is not the Father- the supreme god over all other god and that only the Father is superior to him and Jesus is in turn superior to all other creature in heaven and on earth.

I don't think we should be taking Jacobs account as a consideration of one who actually saw the face of God, infact that angel is said to be called Peniel, face of God doesn't mean the angel is God's face does it?

No man has seen God because there is only one God to see, even Moses's face was covered when God descended with only his back visible.

This term divinity should only be understood as the holiness of God and not like a chieftaincy title that is acquired. Other religions claims diverse forms of divinity thereby diverse gods, but there is only one God therefore His holiness set apart from the rest which are false gods.

immaculatesense:
Yes, I do, since they are 'divine' that makes them 'god' (elohim). According to Psalm 82:1
‭Psalms 82:1 NIV‬
[1] God (elohim-) presides in the great assembly; he renders judgment among the “gods” (elohim):

I interprete this passage as "the Father (elohim) god presides in the great assembly, he renders judgement among the angels (refer to by the psalmist as gods (elohim) just like in Psalms 8:5. I believe this is somehow relatable with Job 1:6 and Job 2:1. I believe in both passages, the scriptures refers to the heavenly assembly or court as an assembly of angels or heavenly beings who have been sent by the Father to lead and guide the affairs of men. They give report and account to the Father on how they manage the affairs of men. I think along the line, the issue of idolatry has it stem from men's encounters with this heavenly beings overtime. So, yes. Angels were referred to across scriptures as 'elohim' which means god.

el also means strength or leader, it doesn't make every strong leader a god but they may claim to be in the eyes of people. Psalm 82 isn't the acknowledge of gods which the Torah rejects, but with correct interpretation and understanding we see that these were self elevated beings who were going to be brought low like Lucifer.

Angels were only one time or two referred to as elohim, and usually with the term benelohim to show their submission to the one true Elohim. We see in the book of revelation that they refer to themselves as servants of Elohim and not elohim.

immaculatesense:
Sir, I respect your view and I have the same view too. But let me help you to create a balance. Your view is correct but not complete. Let me answer or rephrase your thoughts one after another.
1. Is Jesus same as God? The answer is YES. But is Jesus same as the Father? The answer is NO. I will clarify this in my last paragraph.
2. Is Jesus equal to God? The answer is YES. But is Jesus equal to the Father? The answer is NO. He was only equal 'with' not 'to' the Father. I will also clarify this in my last paragraph.
3. Is the Trinity doctrine scriptural? The answer is YES. But has the Trinity doctrine been rightly taught the way the scriptures viewed it by most denomination? The answer is NO.

MY LAST PARAGRAPH
The word 'god'-'elohim' (note that there is not capital letters in Hebrew and Greek) is a plural word that is used for anyone divine or special. Angels were known as 'god' in the biblical period. Study the story of Jacob wrestling with god (angel) Genesis 32:30. Remember Manoah and his wife saw an angel and the said they saw 'god'- Judges 13:22. There are numerous examples of angels been regarded as God all across the scriptures but those two examples are clear enough for that.
Men were also called god. Remember that even the Father through his angel called Moses god (elohim) unto pharaoh and Aaron his prophet- Exodus 7:1. Abraham was called 'god' (elohim) by the Canaanites, even though some versions changed it to 'mighty' and some 'prince' but the original Hebrew word was 'elohim.'- Genesis 23:6. In Psalms the writer clearly stated that 'elohim sits on his throne in the heavenly court and judges among the elohim- Psalm 82:1.
Jesus is god (elohim-) because he is divine/deity but he is not the Father- the one and only god who alone is above all. Jesus is below him but superior to all other god.
In the true Bible teaching of the Trinity, just like the word Bible is not in the scriptures, the word Trinity is not in the scriptures but the Father who alone is supreme and above all sent his son Jesus on a salvation mission (John 3:16-18) and after fulfilling the mission the Father through Jesus sent the holy spirit to guide and lead men into all truth (John 16:13-15). These three, united in purpose but distinct in authority as the Father is above the son and the son is above the spirit play their roles in the salvation of mankind. This is how the Trinity should be taught and not to make the three equal in authority as that is not true, but they are one and united in purpose.
Jesus is not equal to the Father. That should not even be a debate at all. Jesus himself declared severally that "My Father is greater than I am." And severally he always makes it known that he is subject to the Father's will and that the Father is his God- John 20:17. The son came from the Father but the Father came from no one. The son is god (deity/divine/worthy of worship) but the Father is god over all (deity/divine/worthy of worship).
Thanks you so much. I hope you will just include this in your view which is correct but not complete. Peace.

Your number 1 & 2 is suggesting that the Father and God are not the same person, but two different persons. Is that what you believe?

Your "last paragraph" reminds me of my post in https://www.nairaland.com/8337768/term-elohim

About the elohim, and I understand your response is saying Jesus is an elohim, but when we understand scripture we realize that angels are mainly called messengers so as to different them from those beings trying to play God and deceive men. So to say Jesus is not the Elohim but an elohim is associate him with the other references which were related to false gods that God will judge.

cornelboy:
Just a comparison.
Read well

I think you should change the title from "same" to "similar" authority

cornelboy:
Your post makes almost no sense to me especially the third paragraph

ah thought I was the only one who found it confusing

StillDtruth:
This is a misleading formulation especially as you are not paying attention, to the word "our God" which is very specific throughout the First Testaments.

Thus, it is misleading to formulate the question "is Jesus equal to God?" When the bible clearly shows that He is God's Son Who sits at the Right Hand of God.

So, really if you truly wanted to appreciate the Trinitarian views, you can see what they mean.

And this is why half truths are very very dangerous especially as this view comes from Catholics who are devils themselves who know and used the wicked power of half truth and have therefore created this unprofitable argument and division

this is confusing are you saying that Jesus being the son of God is half truth?

TenQ:
The Qur'an is the exact verbatim words of Allah

The Hadiths are sayings of Mohammed and sometimes his sahabas (immediate followers)

Both are authoritative for most Muslims especially the Sunnis but they still regard the Qur'an as perfect and free from errors

but didn't someone say Muhammad could not lie and was known as a honest man. So was he lying in his Hadith?