₦airaland Forum

gohf:
Another way to look at that phrase is like a prophecy that a miraculous counsel will come from Gabriel concerning our Father's prince.

And if you can recall, Daniel wrote in Daniel 12:1 the great prince over the people of Israel. Even the term Israel means prince with God, Jerusalem means city of peace.

Anyway I stick with that by God's spirit, His counsel and might, our Father called him prince of peace. Making him the eternal ruler of God's city.

Daniel has a vision he sees God and he didn't see another god but a man
Dan.7.13 - As my vision continued that night, I saw someone who looked like a man coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient One and was led into his presence.
14 - He was given authority, honor, and royal power over all the nations of the world, so that people of every race and nation and language would obey him. His rule is eternal--it will never end. His kingdom will never be destroyed.

It shouldn't be so surprising that a Roman emperor would prefer Jesus to be a Roman or Greek god than the true Messiah and king of all.

Another way to look at that phrase is like a prophecy that a miraculous counsel will come from Gabriel concerning our Father's prince.

And if you can recall, Daniel wrote in Daniel 12:1 the great prince over the people of Israel. Even the term Israel means prince with God, Jerusalem means city of peace.

Now abiad can usually be used for eternity, and honestly just as counsellor being a verb was instead used as a noun in english translations, we have to adjust our understanding of those translations and check other parts of scripture.

Okay what about mighty God, well Isaiah uses the phrase again in Isaiah 10:20-21 the mighty God but in a statement that means the people will trust YHVH and return to His strength. We know that God is Almighty and not mighty because mighty isn't a noun, except we are saying the term there is a noun, a name and it's Gabriel which means God's might or mighty one/man of God. So mighty God isn't a name but a reference to God's strength.


Like I stated already, it's not the first time Isaiah has written a name that is more like a sentence than a word. So understanding the sentence is important.

I can still interpret it as, His name shall be called by the wonderful counsel of God's strength, abiad, prince of peace. Remember I explained early the verb 'called' refers to a 3rd person who will call him, or called him so.

Now when we look at the term abiad, it is a combination of the word "abi" which is my Father and "ad" which could mean ornaments in Hebrew but there's another meaning which I believe is the main meaning of "ad" which is witness, testimony and prince. Of course "ad" also means ancient, eternity but considering the subject of decision I believe abiad means my Father's witness or my Father's prince is the prince of peace.

If a name would make or mean Jesus is God, it would be Jehovah saves which is the meaning of Jesus but does that also means Joshua is God?!

A name containing el doesn't mean they are God, example, Elijah is not God, Elihu is not God.

gohf:
One more I noticed is why didn't any of the new testament authors quote this verse. Well Matthew did quote the beginning of Isaiah 9 anyway, I wish he quoted that verse. One thing I can say is that the name Isaiah was going to write wasn't a new name but one which was already given, because the child was already given. Yes Jesus was a prince before he came, anyway from Isaiah writing and naming sense, they were sentences or phrases, God with us, you can imagine Maher-shalal-hash-baz was Isaiah's second son. The first was called Shear-Jashub. So it's understandable that it is read as a sentence not names so when we read, Pele-joez-el-gibbor-abiad-sar-shalom, we should either look at it as one name or a sentence. So you see what I said about joining and separating a word.

By the way I can read it as this: wonderful in counsel(it's a Hebrew verb not a noun) is God's might(adjective), from everlasting, the prince of Peace. Infact abiad is one term I which to interpret properly

Well if you accept that Jesus is not the Father it's easier to understand that Everlasting Father is not his name and that there's an explanation of what is written. I wrote from everlasting because our Father is everlasting and Jesus is from Him.

One more thing I noticed is, why didn't any of the new testament authors quote this verse. Well Matthew did quote the beginning of Isaiah 9 anyway and I wish he quoted that verse. One thing I can say is that the name Isaiah was going to write wasn't a new name but one which was already given, because the child was already given. Yes Jesus was a prince before he came, anyway from Isaiah writing and naming sense, they were sentences or phrases, God with us, you can imagine Maher-shalal-hash-baz was Isaiah's second son. The first was called Shear-Jashub. So it's understandable that it is read as a sentence not names so when we read, Pele-joez-el-gibbor-abiad-sar-shalom, we should either look at it as one name or a sentence. So you see what I said about joining and separating a word.

By the way I can read it as this: wonderful in counsel is God's might, from everlasting, the prince of Peace.

Infact abiad is one term I which to interpret properly. For now we note
Counsel: it's a Hebrew verb not a noun
Might: is an adjective

When I look at the Hebrew term "wayyiqra" it's a verb stated by a third single person, meaning his name will be called by someone whom Isaiah is going to mention before the name. It's like saying, you will be called by your Father, thankgod.

So the person who is giving the name is mentioned before the name. Now it's understanding little things like this that makes the difference and brings the suspicion of wait, if I saw this why didn't the expert translators.
You may say I am been too suspicious but humans can be funny at times, and tampering with the bible won't be beyond them.

Okay, good morning, so Isaiah 9:6

Isa.9.6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV)

Now even though KJV and other translations agree that the term is his name not names, we still see it as names. When we look at the Septuagint which is the oldest Greek translation of their Hebrew, reading it in English we have

Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: + for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

Though they give an interpretation to the phrase written by Isaiah, instead of listing names, it is still referred to as a name.

The issue of difference in translation could be as a result of when a word which is supposed to be joined together is separated or a separated word is joined together and interpreted. In English for example is, under stand, join them together and you have a new word with a new meaning, separate the word mango into man go and it gives a whole new meaning. That's why cross referencing severally texts is what translators do. What I do is, when the Masoretic text and the Septuagint translation doesn't agree, either one is wrong or both are wrong, so I pray, then use the context and other verses while asking the Holy Spirit what is God's intent and message. Because whatever may have been mistaken by human error can be corrected.

Thankgod89:
Many people follow this doctrine unknowingly, but what will their fate be? I truly understand your explanation from our conversation today, and I thank God that I got it right. However, I need from you a deeper explanation of Isaiah 9:6.

Thank you.

Good morning, sorry I had to make a thread for two reasons

1. I have answered this question before in one of my threads, and this question is too important to be lost in the middle of posts.

2. It's a long answer, which I may break into posts and summarize it. It took about 2hrs so I don't want to lose it again. Hench the thread

And to add a third reason for the sake of those who seek the truth and God's children.

I am grateful for this privilege

Thankgod89:
There are certain statements I find inappropriate when discussing Scripture, especially with someone who is meant to represent Christ, as Colossians 3:17 encourages. Dismissing others' perspectives as "nonsense" doesn’t help anyone grow spiritually. Let’s strive to engage respectfully and focus on understanding the bigger picture.

If the translation I’m using reflects something you disagree with, it’s not something to hold against anyone. If your preferred translation keeps you aligned with your beliefs, then embrace it, and let’s move forward. After all, what truly matters in this journey of faith is Christ, His light, and His righteousness. Please follow your conviction and translation. Thank you.

did I preach a translation to you? No

Did you not miss the whole point of the message? Yes

Did you ignore the things I wrote? Yes

Are you here justifying yourself again? Yes

Was I wrote not in the name of Jesus? Yes it was

If you see my responses as calling your perspective nonsense, then is your pride more important than the truth?

Have you focused on what is true? No, you haven't, you have ignored what I asked and restated your perspective even if it means ignoring what both God and Jesus said.

You want to be respected in error?

When God asks you, where you not told, what would you respond?

That you wanted to grow by ignoring what you were told and insisting on what you see?

If you had with honesty and humility wanted to understand Isaiah that you quoted would your response not have been different?

If you cannot see that you are wrong it is not because there is no light but because you are blinded by what is inside. I was blind as well but I didn't have such stubbornness maybe if I did I would be you. I listen and I asked, I studied and I prayed, I waited be it months or years.

Did Paul not take years to study, yet with a little a child run wild, even when corrected you call it your perspective.

What is more important souls perishing because of lack of the truth or your perspective.

You read all I wrote and yet you do not know and still you do not understand.

Have I not taught children with a few verses and they understand even more verses, so if my words do not show you then let the spirit of God do so, but do not give me a hypocritical response of being respectful and focusing on the bigger picture when it is your own picture that you want the focus to be on.

When you hear someone say, Jesus is God because you cannot separate a person from their word, it is when a lie is meant to sound logically or when logic is used in confusing you into accepting a lie. The truth is, to represent a person doesn't mean you become that person.

The question you should ask from Matthew 8 and Luke 7 is, did Jesus go to the house of the centurion to heal his servant? The answer is No

Jesus spoke a word, he sent a word. You may say only God can sent a word, at times it's like we forget the bible starts with genesis and has stories of Moses, Joshua, Samuel, Isaiah, Elijah, Elisha, Ezekiel the prophets of God that God spoke through.

So when you read some miracles you believe that it is God doing them, yes it is God's doing but through the hands of a man.

Jesus calls himself the son of man, Matt. 8:20, demons in fear recognize him as the son of God, Matt. 8:29

In Luke.7.16 Then fear came upon all, and they glorified God, saying, "A great prophet has risen up among us"; and, "God has visited His people."

Is Jesus being called a great prophet or God here? It is only those who see Jesus as God who would say yes, but Jesus wasn't called God here but a prophet through whok God was visiting His people.

John asked are you the Messiah, he didn't ask are you God?

Why then do you ask if Jesus is God?

Thankgod89:
In Bible teaching, it's not simply about saying "yes" or "no." Instead, we aim to explain the scripture’s position, and it’s perfectly fine if you don’t see it from my perspective. My prayer is that God will bless us with deeper understanding and knowledge of Him.

I trust you agree that the prophecy spoken by Prophet Isaiah in Isaiah 9:6 is divinely inspired. The verse states:
"For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."

Who do you believe this passage is referring to?

I'm patiently waiting for your response.
Thanks.

you ask without answering 🤦🏿‍♂️

Should you not question the translation when you read his name and not his nameS?

Should you not question the translation when it says he will be called everlasting Father? Whereas Jesus was never called Father but called God Father?

Would you accept the correct translation when you reject God's word already, because of what you believe?

Severally times I have answered this same question and none of them have refuted it but excused it while continuing to believe their nonsense.

If you answer even just the questions I have posted here I may answer you but if you don't, don't you see it doesn't matter. To you it is perspective but to me it is souls.

The difference is truly the heart, if the spirit of God cannot or doesn't tell you why should I? Ask him what is his name, who does the spirit of God tell you the Messiah is?

Thankgod89:
Let me respectfully respond to some of your points, as I believe this discussion is important in understanding the identity of Jesus Christ and the message of the gospel.

1. "We never proclaim that Jesus is God"
While the gospel calls us to preach repentance and salvation, Scripture also reveals Jesus' divine identity. John 1:1 explicitly states, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” This same Word, as John 1:14 affirms, “became flesh and dwelt among us.” The divinity of Jesus is an essential part of understanding who He is and the power of His sacrifice for sin. If Jesus were not God, His sacrifice could not provide eternal redemption (Hebrews 9:12-14).

2. "Jesus having God's nature doesn't make Him God but the Son of God"
The title "Son of God" does not diminish Jesus' divinity. Rather, in the cultural and theological context of Scripture, it affirms His equality with God. For instance, in John 5:18, when Jesus called God His Father, the Jews sought to kill Him because they understood that He was "making Himself equal with God." Similarly, Philippians 2:6 says that Jesus, “being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God.”

3. Old Testament affirmations of God's uniqueness
Isaiah 46:9 and Joel 2:27 declare that there is one God, and this remains true. The doctrine of the Trinity does not contradict this; rather, it affirms that God is one in essence but revealed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus’ claims to divinity are consistent with this. For example, in John 8:58, Jesus declared, "Before Abraham was, I AM," directly referencing God's name in Exodus 3:14. The Jews understood this as a claim to divinity, which is why they sought to stone Him for blasphemy.

4. "Eternal life is to know the only true God and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" (John 17:3)
This verse emphasizes the relationship between the Father and the Son. Jesus is sent by the Father to reveal God’s nature and accomplish salvation. Yet throughout His ministry, Jesus also affirms His unity with the Father. In John 10:30, He says, “I and the Father are one,” a statement that caused His opponents to accuse Him of making Himself God (John 10:33).

5. Jesus as Mediator
Yes, 1 Timothy 2:5 declares that Jesus is the "one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus." His role as mediator doesn’t negate His divinity but underscores His unique nature as fully God and fully man. Only someone who is both God and man could bridge the gap between a holy God and sinful humanity (Hebrews 9:15).

6. "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3)
Worship is reserved for God alone, yet Jesus receives worship multiple times in Scripture (Matthew 14:33, John 20:28). Thomas, after seeing the resurrected Christ, declared, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28). If Jesus were not God, He would have rebuked such worship, as Paul and Barnabas did when people tried to worship them (Acts 14:14-15). Instead, Jesus accepts it, affirming His divine nature.

7. Jude 1:4
Jude warns against those who deny "the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ." This passage doesn’t separate Jesus from divinity but highlights the danger of distorting the true identity of both God and Christ. It reminds us of the importance of preserving sound doctrine, including the divinity of Jesus.

Final Thoughts
The Bible consistently reveals Jesus as both fully God and fully man. His divinity does not contradict the oneness of God but is a key aspect of the Trinity. Understanding this mystery is essential to grasp the full gospel message. Jesus’ divinity gives power to His sacrifice, His resurrection, and His ability to save eternally.

First you did not answer the question, did God lie?

It's important you answer, everyone of you avoid answering this one question DID GOD LIE? It's a yes or a no.

I am bold enough to say scripture NEVER reveals Jesus is God, with God's word backing me up, not opinions not theology.

If you choose to explain a verse outside the word of God, where are you getting your understanding from?

The divinity of Jesus is NOT an essential part of understanding who He is and the power of His sacrifice for sin. For God did not die, and there was NEVER a promise that God would die for anyone.

If I spoke on personal revelation you would claim it is what I saw but now the very word of God revealed to us, now do you then deny the major part because of what you choose to believe?

Here you claim, "If Jesus were not God, His sacrifice could not provide eternal redemption (Hebrews 9:12-14)."

Which is a lie

First the very writer of Hebrews wrote in Heb.5.1 For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins.

Heb.5.4 - And no man takes this honor to himself, but he who is called by God, just as Aaron was.
Heb.5.5 - So also Christ did not glorify Himself to become High Priest, but it was He who said to Him: "You are My Son, Today I have begotten You."


So therefore what now is your basis to twist the words of the writer of Hebrews and accuse him of proclaiming Jesus is another god?

Do you not realise the consequences of your teaching?

Heb.9.11 - But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation.
Heb.9.14 - how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb.9.15 - And for this reason he is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.


Who is Jesus the man chosen by God
Who is Jesus our high priest and mediator
For whom those he mediate? For us
To whom those he mediate? To God, THE LIVING GOD.

Do you even understand the conditions for providing eternal redemption for you to claim he who mediates has to be a god?

You ignore the truth to stand firm on what you believe, you believe the words of the Jews rather than the words of Jesus, isn't it obvious you reject the correction.

The doctrine of the Trinity does contradict this because it is a lie from the devil; it doesn't affirms that God is one in essence but revealed in three persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

What the heck is essence, is God an essence, you have reduced God or killed the one true God in order to create and accept three Gods. Is God three people? Where did God ever say I am three, He never did. Never did He call the son, god the son, if he were god then you accuse God of lying anf denying the godhood of Jesus.

So God filled God with God without measure?

You believe such because the devil is an author of confusion.

How can two things which contradict eachother be both true, except you wish to lie to yourself. How can God say He alone is God, and the son say the same thing, yet you claim that what you say which contradicts them is also true? Remember another truth is what the serpent told Eve.

You say, in John 8:58, that because Jesus declared, "Before Abraham was, I AM," directly referencing God's name in Exodus 3:14. Did God tell you that was or is His name? So if I said I am gohf, I am is my name or since you say I am proofs God, therefore it is God gohf.

what manner of delusion is this?

Is this not in your bible (Exod.3.15) Moreover God said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: "Jehovah, God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations.'

Or are you saying God lied and changed His name?
Exod.6.3 I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHVH (Jehovah) I was not known to them.

You claim, "the Jews understood this as a claim to divinity, which is why they sought to stone Him for blasphemy." The very Jews who rejected Jesus as the Messiah and wanted him dead and crucified him. You believe the Jews and not Jesus?

Why did they not stone him, if it wasn't a false accusation? Don't choose to answer what waters the weeds planted by the devil, and neglect the truth.

Don't use this "This verse emphasizes the relationship between the Father and the Son." As an excuse to whitewash a lie.

To close your eyes and write such a thing, "His role as mediator doesn’t negate His divinity but underscores His unique nature as fully God and fully man. Only someone who is both God and man could bridge the gap between a holy God and sinful humanity" adding to God's word are you afraid to accept the truth?

Jesus wasn't bothered God and man, he isn't some hybrid, God didn't sleep with Mary, Jesus is purely and completely a man made by God, not from the dust but from His word. The word didn't become part God and part man neither did it become a 200% mistake which is impossible, he was 100% like God as a man, and he still is a man.

Rom.5.17-18 - For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.) Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life.


No where is Jesus called God, no where is worshipped as God, he is honoured and worshipped as the lamb of God but never seen nor called God.

Philip didn't worship Jesus and proclaim him God, John who wrote that, wrote right after
John.20.31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Yet what do you believe and teach, if it is not what accuses God of being a liar. An accusation invented by the devil.

Yet here you are, saying, "Instead, Jesus accepts it, affirming His divine nature." Whereas Jesus never accepted worship as God but as Lord whom God made him to be.

Instead of accepting the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus, you distort it and remove the true God and claim that Jesus is both lord and God.

Yet because you want to believe a lie, let it be recorded this day that I have told you the truth but you have said, "the Bible consistently reveals Jesus as both fully God and fully man. His divinity does not contradict the oneness of God but is a key aspect of the Trinity. Understanding this mystery is essential to grasp the full gospel message. Jesus’ divinity gives power to His sacrifice, His resurrection, and His ability to save eternally."

If you do not repent and continue to preach this lie, the doctrine of the nicolitians called the creed of Nicene, and souls perish because of it, let it be on you.

For Jesus is not God, only falsechrist claims to be god

sonmvayina:
Why does God need a son??

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

For there is one God . and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

Thankgod89:
Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful comment. It’s clear you’ve deeply studied Scripture, and I appreciate the opportunity to engage in this discussion. Let’s explore some of the points you’ve raised.

1. Mark 13:32 - The Son does not know the day or hour
This verse highlights the mystery of the incarnation. When Jesus became man, He willingly limited certain aspects of His divine knowledge to fulfill His mission on earth (Philippians 2:6-. This doesn’t negate His divinity but underscores His humility in taking on human nature while still being fully God (Colossians 2:9).


2. Omnipresence and Matthew 18:20
Jesus' omnipresence doesn’t mean He’s physically present everywhere but rather spiritually present, as He affirmed after His resurrection in Matthew 28:20: “I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Ephesians 4:6 points to God’s presence in all things, which is consistent with Jesus’ divine nature as part of the Trinity.


3. Immutable Nature of Christ
Hebrews 13:8 declares, “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.” This refers to His unchanging divine nature. While He came as a man and experienced human limitations, His eternal divine essence remained constant. Jesus being tempted (Hebrews 4:15) and yet without sin demonstrates His perfection and ability to sympathize with humanity, but it doesn’t diminish His divinity.

4. Jesus as the Son of God
Yes, Scripture repeatedly refers to Jesus as the Son of God, which reflects His unique relationship with the Father. However, this title doesn’t deny His divinity. In John 5:18, the Jews understood that by calling God His Father, Jesus was “making Himself equal with God.” Furthermore, Hebrews 1:8 explicitly calls Jesus God: “But of the Son, He says, ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever.’”

5. James 1:13 - God cannot be tempted
This verse refers to God in His divine essence, which cannot be tempted. However, Jesus, in His humanity, experienced temptation (Hebrews 4:15) but did not sin. This dual nature—fully God and fully man—is central to Christian theology (John 1:14).

6. Romans 5:17 - Jesus as the one man
Jesus indeed came as a man to redeem humanity, succeeding where Adam failed. However, this doesn’t negate His divinity. Philippians 2:6-7 explains that Jesus, though in the form of God, took on the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. His humanity was necessary for His role as the perfect mediator and High Priest (1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 9:15).

Thank you for sharing these verses, and I hope this response helps clarify these theological points.

theological points which are not from God are from the devil, or are you saying God is a liar?

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

What is "the mystery of the incarnation"? If not a lie from the devil. Did God become a man or send a man? Why have you chosen to believe a lie that you have been fed even when it goes against God's word? Why have you chosen to side with the world against God's word?

"When Jesus became man" yet you said he is the same yesterday, today and forever.


Yet do even understand the purpose of Philippians 2,
Therefore God also has highly exalted him and given him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Is God a deceiver, that he became a man, then exalts himself or exalts another god? Or is God a rewarder of those who serve and obey Him?

Acts.3.13 The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, whom you delivered up and denied in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let Him go.

Do you not understand or do you pretend not to?

Col 2: 8-10 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily; and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.

Let me not debate the meaning of the greek word used there that is translated as Godhead but didn't Jesus say in John.10.38 but if I do, though you do not believe Me, believe the works, that you may know and believe that the Father is in Me, and I in Him." Did the Father being in him make him the Father?

Have you no understanding of why Paul says so we are complete in Christ who unites us with the Father?

If you reject what the truth is so as to support your points, who will support you and accept you on that day. I rebuke you out of love, that you may see the error and understand the truth.

So is Jesus to you the sympathetic God? So another god was needed to quench the wrath of God?
Is it the interpretation from the Jews that becomes your truth or the words of Jesus?
You quote from John 5, but then you deny the testimony of the scripture, of John the baptist and of the Father himself, why?

John.5.19 - Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.
John.5.20 - For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel.
John.5.30 - I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Why do you think Jesus answered this way, was he so afraid of the Jews that he would lie about being equal to God? If he lied then how is Jesus full of grace and truth and by the way does Jesus being full of grace and truth which is the nature of God, make him God, but we also receive same nature from him, does that make us God as well?

John.5.43 - I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive.
John.5.44 - How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?

Are you saying Jesus is lying or hiding or denying he is a god when he acknowledges his father as the ONLY GOD.

This dual nature—fully God and fully man—is central to Christian theology (John 1:14).

We preach the gospel repent for the kingdom of God is at hand
We preach salvation and God's grace but we never proclaim that Jesus is God

John.1.14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only man born of our Father God, full of grace and truth.

John wrote in 1John.4.2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God..

He did not write come as flesh and spirit, Jesus having God's nature as being born of God doesn't make him God but the son of God.

Let me tell you what negates that Jesus is God, except you are calling God a liar

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me. written by prophet Isaiah

Joel 2:27 — And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.

Or where they lying on God's behalf?

Was Jesus lying as well?

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Please listen


since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

For there is one God . and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

"You shall have no other gods before Me.

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Godson1379:
Truth will always be truth no matter how many "clever" lies attempt to challenge the truths with voluminous writings and arguments.

Look, the concept of God and salvation is soo simple that even a child, a non lettered person or an illiterate could understand without much stress as God is not the author of confusion.

All your threads and arguments simply remind me of this Bible verse

2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

Does that look familiar?

And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life. "I do not receive honor from men. But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. I have come in My Father's name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God?


who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.


And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.


since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.

For there is one God . and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.

yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.

"You shall have no other gods before Me.

For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into lewdness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Remember the former things, those of long ago; I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.

who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,... traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Now as Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

sonmvayina:
Why does God need a son??

no

sonmvayina:
Is there sex in heaven?

no

Thankgod89:
Many people debate whether Jesus is truly God. The explanation below provides a detailed understanding of why Jesus Christ is called God. The Bible says, " Matthew 11:27 says:
"All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

While we acknowledge the Father and the Son, the divine nature of Christ establishes Him as God.


In John 1:1 - "In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God "

Explanation using the key component

1. In the beginning: this echoes Genesis 1:1, emphasizing the eternal nature of the word
2. The word : a title for Jesus Christ, highlighting His role as the embodiment of God's message, wisdom and creative power.(Colossians 1:16)
3. Was with God: this indicate a close intimate relationship between the word and God.
4. And the word was God: this affirm the divinity of Jesus Christ, establishing His equality with God.(Philippians 2:16)

Key implications of Jesus divinity

1. Eternal existence: Jesus has always existed, having no beginning or end. ( John 1:1-3, Hebrews 13:
2. Omnipotent: Jesus possesses all power and authority being able to accomplish anything He desires ( Matthew 28:18, Revelation 19:6).
3. Omniscience : Jesus has complete knowledge and understanding, knowing all things past, present and future (John 16:30, Colossians 2:3).
4. Omnipresent: Jesus is present everywhere being able to be with all people at all time Matthew 18:20, Ephesians 4:6).
5. Immutable: Jesus is unchanging, being the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:
6. Holy : Jesus is completely holy, being separate from sin and morally perfect (Luke 1:35, Hebrews 4:15).

Happy Sunday!!!

first of, Matthew 11:27 doesn't call Jesus God, it only reaffirms that only through Jesus do we gain full knowledge of the Father, not shadows like through the scriptures, John.1.18 No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
John.6.46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.

When you say, "the divine nature of Christ establishes Him as God." Does that also mean that every thing or everyone who has the divine nature is also God?

But that is wrong because that is not scripturally nor is it the gospel.


John 1:1 in Greek it is theos en ho logos
God's in the word is the direct translation of that phrase, which can also be said as God's word, the word was God's. But then taking the common wrong translation of calling "the word was God" what this mean it the word WAS God and not is God.

In your number 5, you wrote "Jesus is unchanging, being the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:" so does that mean Jesus who you understand was God, was also God when he died on the cross. So God died?

But God doesn't not change so you cannot say He became a man can you?

Do you understand when Paul writes this: Rom.3.30 since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith.

Let me mainly use the verses you have quoted

Phil.2.6 Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,

Jesus did not consider himself God though he had God's nature, that's the kind of mindset we should have.

According to you, "1. Eternal existence: Jesus has always existed, having no beginning or end. ( John 1:1-3, ...)", you can also call the heavens and the earth gods as well since they were also from the beginning.

Then you said, 2. Omnipotent: Jesus possesses all power and authority being able to accomplish anything He desires ( Matthew 28:18, Revelation 19:6).

Whatever power and authority Jesus has was given to him by God

Matt.28.18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. (NKJV)

What about power and authority beyond heavens?

Why did you quote Rev 19:6 when it is God who is mentioned there?

Rev.19.4 - Then the twenty-four elders and the four living beings fell down and worshiped God, who was sitting on the throne. [/b]They cried out, "Amen! Hallelujah!"
Rev.19.5 - And from the throne came a voice that said, "[b]Praise our God, all his servants, from the least to the greatest, all who fear him."
Rev.19.6 - Then I heard again what sounded like the shout of a huge crowd, or the roar of mighty ocean waves, or the crash of loud thunder: "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.

Almighty is same with Omnipotent, and only God is Almighty.

Omniscience : Jesus has complete knowledge and understanding, knowing all things past, present and future (John 16:30, Colossians 2:3).

Notice the difference between you and the disciples

John.16.30 Now we understand that you know everything and don't need anyone to tell you anything. From this we believe that you came from God."

Mark.13.32 "However, no one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. (ALL)

Col.2.2 - My goal is that they will be encouraged and knit together by strong ties of love. I want them to have full confidence because they have complete understanding of God's secret plan, which is Christ himself - In him lie hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

He is God's word and message to us.

Then you wrote "Omnipresent: Jesus is present everywhere being able to be with all people at all time Matthew 18:20, Ephesians 4:6)."
Matt.18.20 For where two or three gather together because they are mine, I am there among them."

Jesus isn't there physically

And like you quoted
Eph.4.6 and there is only one God and Father, who is over us all and in us all and living through us all.

Jesus said in John.14.23 Jesus replied, "All those who love me will do what I say. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and live with them.

Immutable: Jesus is unchanging, being the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:
If indeed you believe this, then believe Jesus came as a man, and is sill the same man who obeyed God completely

Rom.5.17 The sin of this one man, Adam, caused death to rule over us, but all who receive God's wonderful, gracious gift of righteousness will live in triumph over sin and death through this one man, Jesus Christ.


Yet the author of Hebrews never calls Jesus God, but the son of God.

Heb.4.14 - That is why we have a great High Priest who has gone to heaven, Jesus the Son of God. Let us cling to him and never stop trusting him.
Heb.4.15 - This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same temptations we do, yet he did not sin.

Jas.1.13 Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.

Rom.3.29 - After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
Rom.3.30 - There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom.1.25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom.3.29 - After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
Rom.3.30 - There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom.3.29 - After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
Rom.3.30 - There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom.3.29 - After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
Rom.3.30 - There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom.3.29 - After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
Rom.3.30 - There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom.3.29 - After all, God is not the God of the Jews only, is he? Isn't he also the God of the Gentiles? Of course he is.
Rom.3.30 - There is only one God, and there is only one way of being accepted by him. He makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles.

Rom.1.25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (NKJV)

Rom.1.25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom.1.25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

Rom.1.25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. (NKJV)

Rom.1.4 and declared to be the Son of God with power according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead.

Godson1379:
What exactly is your point?

You want to challenge age long truths that's as old as Christianity itself?

age long lies will never become the truth no matter how long they have been believed

https://www.nairaland.com/8303116/holy-spirit-god

https://www.nairaland.com/8167601/jesus-christ-not-god

https://www.nairaland.com/8318810/jesus-jehovah

https://www.nairaland.com/8212430/when-say-jesus-not-god

https://www.nairaland.com/8314955/trinitarians-believe-pre-tribulation-falsechrist

Pick anyone to start with.

I asked you a question how many "gods" are before God?

You didn't answer but here you ask me what is my point?

“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.” “Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.” When Jesus saw that he had answered wisely, he said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And from then on no one dared ask him any more questions. Mark 12: 29 - 34

Afolue:
how about JW who don’t use Jesus to pray as well? And they are Christians long in existence till date. You don’t care about them, they neither care about you as well. And they are still there flourishing

is that so

Godson1379:
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit make up the Holy Trinity and there is no argument to this truth unless you are not a Christian.

if believing such a lie is what makes one a Christian then I am not.

I am a disciple of Jesus, I carry my cross and follow him.