₦airaland Forum

samdunzo:
I think this is what might happen
APC deliberately lets a SWer contest
PDP gives the ticket to tambuwal/wike
PDP’s decision will upset SE PDP, but to get their “revenge” on the SW, they will vote for the tambuwal/wike combo
PDP will likely win in a landslide, but rumblings from the SE faction will arise.
APC, now led by someone other than tinubu, will capitalize on this and venture into the SE and MC/ Middle belt
In 2027, APC will then present a SE/MB combo and with massive support from the SW,
SE, MB and parts on the niger delta are core north, will likely win then.
Just my thoughts tho�

tales by moonlight you try sha

Agbegbaorogboye:
Calling you a moralist is not judging you. I'm just pointing to the obvious deficiency in ur knowledge of Christianity. Being a moralist is not a sin nor a crime. It is only a danger to apply moralist principles in theological matters. The laws of God are not the laws of man even though laws of man can also engender good conduct and a proper sense of right and wrong.

Now to the meat which you raised about fraudsters posing as pastors. I share in your indignation. It is an eyesore and a very big concern for Christianity. But you have to realize that the freedom of religion which gives you the right to worship God as you wish as long as you harm no one covers them too. If such a man is able to make people believe that parting with their money is the way to miracles and access to God, even though it is wrong, he has committed no crime in the legal sense. Now, it's obvious your hope is that CAMA will be a cure for such malady. But I regret to inform you that is not the case. In the first instance, the constitution itself recognizes the incompetence of govt to handle spiritual matters. You can't sue a pastor for preaching the wrong gospel since everyone has freedom of thought and expression. However, if a pastor was to ask you to pay him to heal a sick relative and after paying, the relative remains sick, you can sue him for fraud. It's as simple as that.

But what does God say concerning this pastors? Let me remind you of the parable of the wheat and tares. It talks about the genuine and the fake growing and flourishing together as one. The master of the vineyard told the husbandman to let both continue to grow as He would prune out the tares from the wheat at the right time. That is the biblical principle for fraudsters.

Shall we then let them continue to pollute the Christian space? Paul provided in the epistle to the Corinthians how such people are to be dealt with when found out and nowhere is there mention of getting the court to throw them out. Instead, it is about informing the church elders who are to investigate and if found culpable, he should be excommunicated from the congregation. In a situation where the elders are lame ducks, the right thing for the member to do is to leave the church. The liberty of starting off a personal ministry has had more gain than losses for Christianity. I believe you should be aware of this if you're familiar with church history.

Then why are churches taking their own internal matters to the court to sort out themselves and don't want the same court to interfere when they are being call to question.

I have so may examples of this before you say I lack theological knowledge in your own eye (I can tell you I've been around in church circles for a very long time to know so much that goes on)

Be careful of contradicting yourself I must warn.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Again, find out things before you jump to conclusions. In the UK where such happened to winners and MFM recently, the trustees where not suspended. What was done was that financial running of the church was taken over by an administrator while trustees remained to continue to serve the spiritual aspects of the church.
Good you now agree that it's "few" members or pastors aka trustees that are privy to the financial details of the church which is what FRC requires. No law requires that all members be informed.
I don't know where you get the idea that churches have a lot to hide. You can cite examples to buttress your claim.

You come across as a moralist more than a practising Christian not to mention your poor knowledge of Christianity which you brandish so confidently.
Jesus is God in human form. Him confronting the Pharisees was as a result of his superiority as the son of God.
Peter was not head of the church. James was. He's called James the Elder.
Go and read first Samuel. They got a king and a curse with it.
God expressly stated that the judgements of his servants lies with him and not man. In cases of erring pastors, pastors higher than such in spiritual hierarchy are too enforce discipline not the church members. The church members are to pray for God's grace to save his servants. God's standards are not man's.
Be guided.

Let's keep deceiving ourselves as christians in Nigeria and why are you contradicting yourself by judging me as a moralist and not a christian. Must I share your views before you believe am a believer. You better be guided and not make yourself a judge.

We have so many fraudsters today parading themselves as pastors and GOs. Your problem is that you think all churches and pastors in Nigeria are God ordained. Are you are aware of how many cultists are pastors today? You and your pastor may not be one but don't think all churches and pastors out there are genuine. Who are the pastors in higher hierarchy that will enforce discipline on such erring pastors. We are deceiving ourselves as christians thinking all is well. Do you know how these fraudulent pastors and cultists threaten their members to keep them under bondage. All these are possible cos no one is checking and regulating the activities of these fraudsters. Can anyone just open a bank in Nigeria? We tend to claim spirituality in Nigerian churches when pastors err and say we should pray for them even with their criminal acts. Pls be guided that any registered church is a civil organization that can sue and be sued. Did Christ embassy not sue govt recently when their church was closed in akwaibom? Why did they not leave govt to God. You are funny, when govt err we can sue or protest but when churches or pastors err, we should leave them to God's standards. Going by your funny logic, we should stop complaining then when govt officials and leaders misbehave as they too are ordained by God according to scriptures. The church apart from being a spiritual entity is also a physical and corporate entity and that's why churches get approval for their physical buildings or they could as well build their churches in the air by God's standards.

We got to stop using the Spiritual entity of the church to cover the criminal acts of fraudsters parading themselves as pastors cos they are also citizens that must abide with the law of the land. The funny thing again is that when these pastors have issues with some of their leaders internally especially a breakaway issue they run to the same court to protect the assets and properties of the church from being taken over as they don't leave it to God's standards. Who is deceiving who here.

Agbegbaorogboye:
That's the problem of ignorant people. They assume they know the problem and adopt a solution.
CAN the umbrella body of Christians is particularly against section 89 which gives the registrar and the court power to appoint an interim manager and suspend the trustees in the event of complaints from one-fifth of the church trustees . There's nowhere in CAMA where it is mentioned that the financial details of church should be disclosed to the members. If you have contrary evidence share it. It's the registrar of CAC that the financial details are to be submitted to and the current occupant of that office is not even a Christian.

Now since you agree to the meaning of accountability as I gave it, you should then realise that what happened between Moses and Jethro was a case of mentoring a younger leader who is suffering from the physical demands of his office. Nothing there suggests accountability. You should also know if you're familiar with biblical standards that under theocratic laws, questioning your leader is tantamount to rebellion which is why though the children of Israel knew that the sons of Eli were corrupt in handling tithes and offerings, they didn't confront them. However, when the sons of Samuel did likewise, which prompted the children of Israel to ask for a king, God took offence!! Read your Bible.

is that not what obtains in countries where this law is currently practiced? has it affected the ministry of the church? has the GOs in those countries be overthrown, why are we misinterpreting the law for God's sake. Does it states that the regular operations of the church will be disrupted, even in the uk where issues have been found, were those churches not operating normally under interim management. Churches in Nigeria have lots to hide and that's where the issues lies. for your info, the financial reporting council of nigeria enjoins NGOs including churches to do AGM with its registered members in attendance where financial details are disclosed. Many churches are already doing this covertly with few workers or pastors in attendance just to meet this regulation

The examples of Eli you gave is what we should avoid in today's church ok? Did Jesus not confront the religious leaders in his days when there genuine reasons to do so? Did Paul not confront Peter the head of the church then about his hypocritical stand on some matters? you said God took offence when israel asked for a King, did they not get a king? Both Prophets and Kings in the Bible all had issues that demanded accountability. Did the bible not enjoin us to entreat elders with all due respect, did the bible actually say we should not ask questions? How can asking questions be tantamount to rebellion, na wa o

Agbegbaorogboye:
Kindly tell how they rebelled against his leadership. There's a thin line between "rebellion" and demanding accountability if you have understanding. Asking your pastor to account to you for tithes is closer to rebellion than Miriam telling Aaron that Moses was wrong marrying a Midianite which was same thing Esau did that displeased Isaac.
I don't know how you mean Moses was accountable to his father-in-law. May I pause for a moment and gently ask what exactly you understand by the word accountability

you have defined it already nah, is that not what CAMA is all about that you and your ilk don't want? You are beginning to contradict yourself bruv.

In trying to justify yourself you have properly defined what the intended law wants to achieve, interesting. Some churches [Baptists, Foursquare and others who do likewise] may be you are not aware disclose their financial details including tithes and other collections to their registered members yearly, is it not the members contributions? does it belong to the pastor? so what's the big if pastors begin to be accountable to their members on their financial dealings and you call it rebellion when it's not the personal money of the pastor. The same churches in Nigeria who are kicking against it do disclose their finances in the countries where the law applies so what's the contention there for monies that is not anybody's personal property.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Yen yen yen African mentality. Like Africans were allowed to question the colonialists.
Like Indian, Chinese and Lebanese bosses in Nigeria encourage their Nigerian employees to question them.
Everything from Africa is bad and everything from Europe is good according to you.
Just be sure of which God you're following.
God never said people should question leaders he put over them. As a matter of fact, that's the highlight of theocracy as can be seen with Moses and his siblings, Eli the priests and his sons and even David.
Go and get yourself acquainted with biblical standards and stop twisting the Bible to your world view

Liar, moses siblings rebelled against his leadership hence their punishment. Is that what is the issue here? Stop misinterpreting scriptures. Moses was accountable even to his father in law that was a non jew hence he was able to receive advise on his leadership over israel.

You got to study scriptures more bruv

Agbegbaorogboye:
You can believe whatever you want to believe. It shows your level of education. Accountability means delegating authority to you.
Being a servant-leader means being accountable to you.
I'm sure if your boss asks you to attend a meeting on his behalf you'll come back from the meeting and ask him how he ran the office when you were away.
I'm also sure if your boss asks for your advice before making a decision, you'll ask him why he didn't implement your idea if he decides to go another way.
You need to learn more.

You just described by your submission the typical African mentality of not being able to ask questions from those in authority. Sorry to burst your bubble, the scriptures does not align with that.

Your argument is not with me but with the scriptures like kenneth hagin of blessed memory will say.

We follow God and His word and not men.

Agbegbaorogboye:
Stop quoting the Bible to fit your agenda. Fear God.
1. How does being example or model mean being accountable? I have attached synonyms of "example" so you can learn.

2. Go back and read that part of Acts again. The reason for that was not to be accountable but to be fair in dealing with everyone. It was a case of delegating authority and responsibility to ensure needs are met adequately. Pray tell how that constitutes accountable in your mind.

I suggest you be mindful of the evil you seek to propagate. It may not end well.

Stop being clever by half, delegating authority and responsibility is part of being accountable ok? And not being lords over God's people certainly mean accountability towards God's people in everything.

The bible certainly discourages pastors being demi gods which is what obtains in some churches in Nigeria and demi gods don't want to be accountable to anyone. The Apostles in the early church saw the need to cede some of their authority to others over the needs and welfare of the people.

Agbegbaorogboye:
You want your pastors to be more accountable. Is that what your Bible teaches you? Quote a scripture that says pastors should be accountable to the members.

1 peter 5:3 says that pastors or elders shouldn't be lords over the flock but be examples

Also In the early church in the the book of Acts when deacons were appointed, the apostles said it is not good for them to leave the ministry of the word and prayer to serve tables or food, reason they appointed deacons to oversee welfare of the people for them to focus more on the word and prayer. That was accountability is display.

Those of you arguing don't really read your bibles so well so am not surprised with the question you asked

honeyB2018:
You are the worst example of the products, you want to advertise. So, a church as big as Living Faith, is not structured well? Can you see your stupidity?
So the number of churches in Nigeria, can't make it possible for Nigeria churches, to be disorganized by government, can you see your dumb brain? Do you know, what government legislation can do to a church organization?
Why are the churches in America, today, hoping for a Donald Trump re-election?
When the ban on showing of miracles done in Churches on TV, was made, how many orthodox churches, were affected?
When Fashola, was regulating religious activities in Lagos state, how many orthodox churches and Islamic societies were affected.
I don't need to waste my time and data, on someone like you, who is ready to sell his soul.
Today, the Nigerian churches are looking for a voice, Idahosa and Ayo Oritsejafor, gave themselves, but people like you, sold them out. You want to sell David Oyedepo, like you did to Idahosa and Ayo, but you and your cohorts must fail.
CAMA 2020, is evil and must be condemned. It must fail.
How can a government, that is full of corruption, wants to regulate the church and it's activities?
It will not stand. Take a trip to any of CAC office for registration of names, you will marvel at the rate of corruption there. This is the body, that wants to check abnormalities in the church.

guy you de vex no be small but you said nothing as your post is just full of emotions than reasoning, very large organizations does not mean they are well structured and that's why very big organizations like enron can crumble

Let me burst your bubble, Living Faith is not very structured. that a church is so big does not mean it's that structured. forget all what your bishop says, that's why he's jittery about CAMA. In this country we've had big churches in the past that are now a shadow of itself so forget the size thing.

And like i said to one of your ilk, your church can de-register and CAMA will not apply ok?

bezimo:
Nobody will comply with anything....or na you wan make den comply..

they will comply, wait and see

bezimo:
You wey dey fight church and pastor..na you con dey born again..oh really.

all because we want our pastors more accountable, we dey fight them na wa for una

bezimo:
There is nothing I said that is a lie.
You are the one that has issues

Because you don't go to church..give in church..yet have vested interest in removing church board trustees and pastor. Wetin concern you with church or pastor matter..you are mad.

really? bros this thing dey pain you gan. CAMA is here to stay.

bezimo:
Get lost..go and make them comply..you say shut down..you ate comparing virus pandemic to CAMA ill conceived law..go and maje tgem comply nah..you think is by talking chaff on nairaland

They will comply bruv no stress yourself, na only dem dey naija

bezimo:
Is it you that is a Christian.. posses devil how I wish I can release an angel to give a brain resetting konk. Bastard devils

all because your lies and deception cannot spread anymore. Guy you need to surrender your life to Christ and be a true follower of Christ and exhibit the fruit of the Spirit ok?

agabusta:
Heaven approves such? Where in the New Testament? And the way you certify someone a devil is if they have an opinion that differs from yours? Are you sure you are not the one who is actually a Devil?

those guys are not born gain bruv, they only have a cloak of godliness, with time, their lots will soon be frustrated and fade away and the true church of believers who truly worship God in Spirit and in truth will emerge. their god is their belly and that's why they are the way they are.

bezimo:
Bastard devils like you should shut up..you don't go to church, dont give give in church and should keep quiet in this matter..your opinion is irrelevant.

Nobody will de-register any church..nobody will comply with any satanic CAMA law and nothing will happen..if them born una well go to Canaanland and protest if you no chop better brutal beatings to reset your stupid posses brain..Nonsense

You are joking dear, your church will comply like they did during the shut down, all na noise. Like I said it's in your DNA like your pastors and bishops, always abusing and cursing others, that's the Christ-like example they gave you lol

bezimo:
You don't go to church neither are you a Christian.. so why are you interested in church matters and in removing their trustee board and pastor..if you are not a possesed demonic bastard devil..
Church trustee is part of the functioning of the church..they sanction the approval of statutory body members and church workers..and manage church money..and can write petition to head office for pastor to be removed..if you go to church you will know this things..instead of talking thrash.

If your church has no skeleton in its cupboard, they won't be afraid of CAMA but all is not truly well and you know it hence the fear.

Only the wicked runneth when no man pursueth according to scriptures. Churches who have a true functioning system has no issues with CAMA

bezimo:
So is that what you claim as damage...see how shallow and lame your response is..i thought your reference to damage is with respect to a particular event or series of events..

Accountable you say..based on what right?
How can a government that promote the killings of christians in the north put law in place to remove church trustee board..a church they have not funded. una dey mad?
Is it government that built the church?
Is it government that brought the members?
Is it government that gave church the money they have?
has the members complained that they need any government to step into their church?

How is it different from what these says..which is part of the CAMA law
That Government appointed registrer general of CAC can remove church trustees and appoint anybody!
That Government appointed registrer general of CAC can close church accounts!
That the decision cannot be challenged in court.

See make una no try nonsense..if not even if Bishop Oyedepo no talk them no born any government appointed trustee to step into Canaanland to say he wants to take charge. Members alone go una better brutal beatings..

tell your pastor or bishop to de-register his church from CAC and he will be fine else he abides with the law of the land as no amount of beatings will solve any thing ok? na noise and threats una sabi make. while una no oepn church during the pandemic shut down with all the noise.

You lots are lawless and not different from the criminals terrorizing the land. You have appearances of godliness but deny the power thereof as scriptures teaches, no Christ-like behavior at all, always abuses, insults, curses and so on in the name of God.

bezimo:
Your Christianity has a big question mark that's if you are not confirmed fake.

I serve God in a unit in my church and i am very familiar with the board of the church and how they do things..I and will not support any law that has the tendency to undermine the functioning of the church. How can an Islamic satanic government that has promoted the killings of christians in the north put laws in place to remove trustee of a church and appoint who? And you think it's acceptable..my friend you are fake reprobate lying liar. Your Christianity is fake. No make ne vex abeg.

That churches need more openess based on what grounds and criteria? Have the government finished giving us openess in how the Nigerian money is looted and stolen..is church they now want to regulate..and you say you are Christian.. Fake..

you are very ignorant, no law is undermining the functioning of any church, it even takes one-fifth of the organization or board to write a petition before the law can be applied through a court of law. You guys should read the law for yourself and stop listening to lies. The Pastors against the law are afraid that even their church members or board can now raise a petition in the case of a misconduct.

bezimo:
Enumerate the damage done?

confusing Christians on the true interpretation of the CAMA law and pitching them unnecessarily against the govt, meanwhile the govt is actually protecting the Christians to make Christian leaders more accountable to their church members, Oyedepo will have none of that as he doesn't want anyone asking him questions as regards church operations, we are not fooled bruv. What he said on his pulpit was actually different from what the law states

honeyB2018:
When people like you talk or take a stand over this issue, my heart trembles for the faith in Nigeria. What will Christianity look like, after this present leaders of faith have passed on?
This kind of your attitude, made a Christian nation, like Turkey, today to become an Islamic nation.
Do you remember, that before CAMA 2020, there was CAMA 90? While CAMA 90, was in operation, which church, or NGO, raised an eyebrow?
Business community in Nigeria, asked for the amendment to the Act, to have ease of doing business, government and its officials, listened to them
In amending the section, that the churches are opposed today, what was the input of the faith based organizations? Who heard, among the churches and the faith based organizations and NGO, about the amendment?
Thank God for the likes of Bishop Oyedepo, who is a voice. That was how the churches, condemned Archbishop B.A. Idahosa, in his days and the church is paying for it today. That was how Pastor Ayo Oristsejafor, was crucified in his days, as both PFN and CAN president, the Nigeria churches are the worst for it today.
CAMA 2020, may appear so simply and harmless on the. Surface, but beneath, is a recipe for crisis in the church.
Why was it smuggled into the Act? Why did the views of those to be affected, not heard as the case with the business community.
Bishop Oyedepo, may appear evil in the eyes of your likes, but if this is allowed, only time will tell, what becomes of your faith.
Why are the Muslims and orthodox churches not talking?
Food for thought.

You are a very ignorant Christian and you need to read your bible more and pay attention. The likes of Oyedepo are shouting cos in their organizations, they are the alpha and omega of their ministries and are answerable to nobody. There is no hidden agenda anywhere, we have been shouting about this hidden agenda for a long time but are the churches in Nigeria weaker now? How many churches do we have now compared to what we have in the 80s or 90s, don't we have more churches now? have church attendance in Nigeria dwindle over the years to suggest that what happened in Turkey will happen soon in Nigeria? why do we raise false alarm all the time when there is none, churches were shut down due to pandemic months ago, are they not open now? what's exactly your problem and other ignorant Christians like you if really you are one.

The orthodox churches and other older churches over the years have developed systems and structures where they self regulate easily so what is in CAMA now is already what they do internally in handling misconduct and fraudulent practices that can occur so before any issue get to CAC, it's already taken care of. The likes of Winners and other Pentecostal churches with over bloated egos of their GOs have no solid structures to self regulate as they sweep most things under the carpet all in the name of Positive Faith. Please get enlightened and read more about the Act as its's not only directed to churches but other NGOs and stop the lies ok?

For your information RCCG will not complain too cos internally they have begin to set up structures in the past few years to tighten all the loose end, remember they now have an National GO different from Pastor Adeboye which shows they have complied with the earlier regulation that a GO cannot be in position for more than 20 years, has that affected the ministry of RCCG or Pastor Adeboye? Get informed pls

gariepinus:
He is trying but must of the flyover's is been constructed by his construction company even those concrete roads.. So indirectly he is making money from those projects.. HV you seeing any popular construction company handling projects in Ebonyi state?? The answer is No...even the diesel use to power all the street lights installed in Ebonyi state is been supplied by his filling station known as Brass...so he is doing business too... the reason why he is constructing flyover everywhere both in the villages where such is not needed is to enrich his pocket because the flyover's were been constructed by his company... If he really mean to work.. Let him invest half of the huge money spent in building those insignificant flyovers into human capital development and build build mini industry that will created positive impart in the live's of Eboyians....so I think he is not the best considering the system he is using.....

Anyone building infrastructure should be highly commended pls, if he leaves infrastructure and concentrate on human capital like you said, you guys will still complain he's not doing infrastructure. The good thing about what he is doing is that those structures will outlive his tenure and become a great legacy, whether he is using his personal company to achieve this does not matter much as many will still be employed in the course of work thereby contributing to the local economy.

I appreciate any Governor or Politician who invests heavily in infrastructure as it puts pressure on their successor to do more or be shamed

agabusta:
Christians have become too edgy these days. Any advice given to them is tagged propanganda. Did CAN take time to go through the laws before making noise all over?

In my church, the church elders received correspondence from CAN on the matter and was already fuming that CAC wants to remove trustees without going to court. corrected them that there is a provision for approaching the court.

CAN should tell us other means the church board of trustees can be made accountable.

@the bolded, this is the lie Oyedepo has successfully spread all across Christendom in Nigeria, it took me hours to explain the real truth on approaching the courts to an in-law of mine who is a pastor in rccg.

The damage Oyedepo and his ilk are doing to Christianity in Nigeria is a real cause for concern, why spread lies all over the country to Christians. I don't understand again o

If this was a test flight, why not avoid commercial or residential areas where people are.

Rugaria:
Not blaming you for anything, just telling you to go and get your security from the commander in chief you instituted.. very simple. We have the army, the police, the Navy, the air Force, the civil defense, the customs the..., All under the presidency. You reelected him because you said he was doing a good job for you the "consequencials".. why forming a parallel security outfit then? You should all be arrested and shot for trying to usurp the power of the presidency through the formation of these alien organization. This was how abiola tried to form a presidency outside the presidency and paid dearly for that..

Gibberish, take your frustrations back to your house and if you have liver go ahead and unseat the President. You guys make noise, campaign for your favorite politicians and when you loose, you blame folks who don't always agree with your political choices. You guys are just manipulative and lazy. Get a life pls

Great, Nigeria gradually pulling it's weight again in the African region after being too docile for too long.

emerged01:
This is not about Tinubu,this is about Yoruba. If it is about waiting for what Tinubu will say Akeredolu won’t be saying this on behalf of Yorubas. Tinubu May have his own agenda,Yorubas have theirs. There are Yorubas silently pursuing the agendas of Yorubas without noise.

Tinubu never goes against SW Agenda, he may have his views but will never go against yoruba interests, reason Amotekun still went ahead despite his initial foot dragging.

SW Politics is too complex for some to understand and you are right, the yorubas truly have their agneda, in fact Plan B, C, D and so on is available

PMB and his goons is still yet to understand SW Politics

Rugaria:
Nothing went wrong madam! It was a dumb decision, period! You knew he was incompetent just that you thought it will favour you. If it was a mistake, why no correct that during the last elections? Twice you voted for the same man that can't guarantee security and then turn around to form Amotekun! Take a look at yourself..

stop blaming others for your misfortune, take responsibility and be counted. Blaming others all the time is a big sign of weakness and how inconsequential you are in the scheme of things.

Dividends of black lives matter movements

ffk has complex and self esteem issues. He's too old to fix them now. Guy's life is messed up

Has nothing to offer than to tell you he was ex minister