macof: The hatred you have for Yoruba will not make your brain function properly
Yoruba don't claim what does not belong to us. That we claim many things only mean we created many things If you don't like it you can run far away to a place Yoruba culture and influence won't reach you
TAO12: And the next logical question where they get stuck is:
What is the meaning of "Aiyelala" in Edo language? They will begin to luku-luku.
In summary, it is absurd to think that the Edos of old originated a system and them named it in a language alien to them.
Moreover, here is a video of one of your own -- an Edo curator of one of your Museums admitting without the usual Edo shame, insecurity and inferiority that all the Bini deities were originally from Yorubaland.
Lol, what does it mean in Yoruba... Start coining words fast
Aye means the name of the God, lala means loud
Putting this two together it gives aye-sounding message
Ayellala is used to curse who so ever has stolen, lied, and people that do evi, l no evil doer can step in the shrine of ayelala or even even a wtch..... They will freeze
TAO11 you nor get sense.... Your matter tire me and you still asked the questions i would keep flogging madness out of you ...
Assuming i dont know the names my writups and proved as well as the comments could have made yoy satisfied
May god help TAO11 and those who supports her by hiding and giving her likes they are the people god should help more
OmoOlofin: You're not a bright person obviously. Just like my prior explanations, the Esan fleeing Bini itself is based on oral account. The Esan alive today are not the very same people who supposedly fled (if anyone fled Benin in the first pkace). The Esans of today must resort to an oral account in order to uphold the position that their fore parents fled from Benin -- It goes back again to oral account.
Also, the supposition that Ewuare is the reason why they fled (if they fled from Benin at all) is also based on oral traditions. So everything -- no matter how dumb you are not to see it -- goes back to be based on oral tradition.
I have refuted you on multiple times. A grave by itself proves nothing. The grave (which is presumably made in a pre-literate setting) doesn't by itself inform you about the name and life of the person supposedly buried (if anyone was buried there in the first place). One would still have to resort to an oral account which would say that it is indeed Ewuare that was buried at so and so place. It goes back again to oral account.
So, you're stuck with oral accounts apparently.
All the exploits of Oduduwa, et al. from the unification of all the primordial settlement under one political rule, to the commissioning of the city wall, among innumerable others are all based on oral account just as in the case of your Ewuare I.
So, you must explain why you will adopt a double-standard of accepting oral accounts when it's convenient for you.
Really!? What date did Ooni change from priest to King? And who changed him? Remember that your JoHnSon straw has been shattered. Just as your AwOlOwO straw which you've now fled from.
You mean the myth of how Benin City was founded by the last born son of God??
Or the myth of how your Ogisos sky-dived into Benin City round about without any parachute??
Or the myth of how a European supplanted the last Ogiso to establish himself as the first Oba of Benin??
Which myth exactly??
Moreover, I have already exposed your fraud on the screenshot you attached here. I think you should do yourself the good of always reading what you reply to. It makes you appear less dumb. Here is the reply to it which I have given earlier:
First of all, your attachment refers specifically to post-1800 kings and not all the kings from the beginning. This therefore excludes the era of King Ogun.
Secondly, nowhere does the author of your attachment say anything to the effect that these four lists of post-1800 kings “shouldn’t be taken seriously”. This is simply your Edo lying nature kicking in.
On the contrary however, the author of your attachment finds it “impressive” that these independent lists coming originally from a semi-literate context shows “an absolute consistency” in general.
Having said that, the issue of the ifs-king list here is no where near the mess of the Benin kinglists where Captain Roupell was originally informed by the Benin palace historians and others tin 1897 that there are twenty-three (23) Benin Obas between from Eweka1 and Ovonramwen.
Today however, the Benin kinglists now feature thirty-five (35) Benin Obas between Eweka1 and Ovonramwen.
Where did the extra twelve (12) audio Obas pop out from??
Not to draw this discussion too long, i accept the king list of roupell was the correct one, since you insist it must be, the list included ewuare and excluded oromiyan am i right........ but why exclude oromiyan if he indeed rule, if he didnt rule did Roupell's state it there was a king who didnt rule.....in his article
Are we also going to accept the first king list of ife kings, just to be correct too, because the first kinglist didnt involve ogun ruling as king more so Roupell's king list informants were fewer compared to thomas informants, talbots who collect is list of kings after 1924 and included oromiyan we don't kniw who were is evil informants he decided not to say who ia informants wee, because it was a distortion to include oromiyan into benin history as a whole egharevba also worked with talbots list too,
I never said oral tradition is not accepted, only if it is not a myth atleast the oral traditions must be traceable with various account, UnLike the story of oduduwa were samuel Johnson used is pen to give him life,and,forcing him to come from mecca, sky, and lastly the revise version you support oke era
See am not you, who dwell on myth am the one trying to cure you from your insanely love over mythology over facts, i descredited the benin ogun story as a god king son, because i know it is a myth and i never used it to claim ownership, i also personal disagreed on ogiso ruling as rulers in benin but you TAO11, the great dweler and queens of mytg disagreed with me ogiso ruled benin and Oronmiyan came saudi arabia to displace them inother to prove your point oromiyan really came to benin just to uplift your dead ego, you finally accepted ogiso was a benin mythology... Tao11 the wise lady, D
Your replies reeks simply of sorrows, tears and misery.
It is my pleasure to have wiped the floor with your face. Next time you know your class.
Moreover, I’m glad you couldn’t address a single thing from all my comments here.
Also, stop asking for the very things I’ve already made available to you on this same thread and from which you’re on the run till date.
Find another means of saving face from this disgrace which I’m forcing you and your 2by2 kingdom to go through publicly.
Moreover, there isn’t one single thread that you’ve created which I did not disgrace you from. I literally chase you away from your own threads.
I dare you to post any link to any of your thread where I didn’t disgrace you and chase you away with evidence, proof, and reason.
Lol, mouthful lady..... Visit my thread were i placed a price worth of 10,000 naira cash price, to whom ever can prove benin-ife connection from the Europeans arrival till the end of the empir 15 century to 1897, with archeological evidence backing to support it too
Would you ever give up even if you see the truth glaring at you, and i know ife is a myth but you still using it to sustain your yorubaistic ego and also fooling your brothers into it,
For you to admit i defeated you, you rather take sniper like awolowo and die like rat, i would be glad to present you a calabash like the ogboni to hang yourself, many times i have destroyed your lies, instead of you to keep shut and accept fact you go behind my back on an igbo thread to claim benin ties with yorubas, so to prove your point there, that's why am here to disprove such fallacious claims of yours and Your foolish yoruba brothers acknowledge you for your deceit Tao11 you went behind my back without tagging me to support your egoistic claims of the benin-ife myth, i constantly tell you desist from it, you still went ahead to post it, to support your points against igbos, and you didnt mention me to be aware, you must be a coward lije your brothers who gave you numerous likes for it, You and your brother are morons and cowards for doing such if yorubas can claim benin with their false myth, then we will allow any tribe to do same, afterall the yorubas did it aswell even when we know the stroy of their connection to benin was made up and untrue , If you wont allow that, then go back and erase those useless point of yours and apologize abd tell your brothers to do the same
Note tao11 you run from threads when debating me, i know you so well, when your not running, you will bring a different topic to serves as distraction, and if you cant escape you pray another party joins the argument till, you bore us out the threads, the only power you had was when we use to argue on the ownership of oduduwa, then i also use to beat you at it too
Follow on this thread, bring your brothers along too
TAO11 you still have not proved to me why is the Whydmn guy the only one on the king list claiming ogun ruled ife as a priest not as a king tho, because in the past ife was not having king but priest
You still have not prove to me why you believe ogun is a Yoruba idol and not benin
And you also said the author of the article agreed that ogun and Obalufon abi obamakin was the sane person as ogun and not different people
First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.
Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard and “official” traditional Benin account.
So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.
Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.
If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.
Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.
If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.
What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.
So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.
In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation. . . . Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.
Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?
. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.
First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.
Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.
This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.
Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?
Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.
But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.
How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.
In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.
It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.
Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.
You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.
Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:
(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.
(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.
cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980
Eware existed, even though the Europeans didnt see him rule The esan fleeing from benin was from the result of Ewaure, the towns he conquered are still much Are alive, his grave site is still at isi in benin,
And i never stated that oduduwa never existed or ogun never existed because Europeans never had contact with them, atleast they must be something tangible to refrence is existence to, Unlike the yorubas who never kept any records of their people, ooni was a priest in ife, untill recently he started assuming the title of a king, and caused political unification of the yoruba people
Babe i dont even want to go inside the myth of ife, because it is a myth on his own, so as ife kinglist
First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.
Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard and “official” traditional Benin account.
So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.
Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.
If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.
Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.
If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.
What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.
So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.
In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation. . . . Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.
Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?
. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.
First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.
Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.
This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.
Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?
Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.
But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.
How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.
In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.
It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.
Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.
You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.
Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:
(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.
(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.
cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980
Lol , samuel johson untied yorubas with the mythical ife, when he wrote the history of the yorubas in 1897, but that couldn't hold them because most of the yorubas couldn't read his book or have access to it, awolowo who read the book, finally achieved samuel johson aim.... To frictional unite the yoruba into one ancestory in a bid to stop the yoruba civil war and the enemity it created, Samuel johson saw that all yorubas spoke a similar language tho not from the same ancestory All he did was to unite them under some mythical history of a diety from ife, Oduduwa was a diety at ife he was worshiped as a god, and not the newly invented eledumare guy, the eledumare was brought in recently to accompany That oduduwa existed as a king on earth
TAO11: To think this is coming from my slave who must seek my permission before he wears clothes.
Really!? And what makes you think telling me this will help any of the moronic 'arguments' you should be defending?
You’re a Janus-faced fatuous little Edo liar for telling this outright lie. No wonder you didn’t bother pretending to have any supporting evidence for it.
For the sake of the sane reader who cares for nothing but the truth, please note that the deification of Olokun among the Edos is only as a male deity. The Edos simply do not worship Olokun as a female deity.
The following reference is to a peer-reviewed academic journal article dedicated exclusively to the deity “Olokun” among the Edos:
Norma Rosen, “Chalk Iconography in Olokun Worship”, African Arts Vol. 22. No. 3 (May 1989), pp. 44-88.
In this above-referenced journal article, Norma Rosen (who is not only a scholar but also an Olokun initiate) clearly identifies Olokun to be a male deity among the Edos.
Not once did he mince words in this regard throughout this article dedicated solely to the subject of Olokun among the Edos. For example, the opening statements of this article from which Olokun’s gender in the context of Edo worship is clearly identified reads as follows:
“The Edo people of Nigeria believe that Olokun, god of the sea, is a powerful and benevolent deity who can bring children, health, riches, and other blessings to those who worship him. One of his praise names is Oba n’ Ame No Se No Rre Oke (The King of the Sea is Greater Than the King of the Land). Olokun has a place of cowries in his kingdom beneath the sea, but the oba (King) of the lad does not. A popular worship song praises his omnipotence: Ai ghi gbe oba n’ ame/ I vba oba n’ ame mwen (You do not fight the king of the water/ I come to meet the king of the water for help).”
If the bolded is in anyway true, then you have just publicly announced one of the sources of your PTSD.
In other words, you simply became traumatized when you later found out that your childhood was dedicated to serving a Yoruba deity. Now I’m beginning to understand why you’re always frustrated. I advise that you spend more time with a therapist than on Nairaland.
Having said that, it is important to remind you again that you simply lied as usual when you remarked that you “know this [for a] fact” that Olokun is worshipped by the Edos both as a male deity and as a female deity.
The evidence from the above-cited work of Norma Rosen (a scholar and Olokun initiate) has already exposed you as a liar.
Also, your expression of doubt in your foregoing block of comment where you said: “probably husband and wife” clearly contradicts your expression of certainty here where you said: “I … served … I know this fact”.
Of course, Oduduwa is a deity – because he was deified. Name me one academic source which supports your moronic joke that Oduduwa never existed.
Moreover, it isn’t merely my personal claim that Oduduwa was deified. Instead, this is the obvious age-long and widely-known Yoruba (and Bini) reality. Lol.
For example, the historian B.A. Agiri quoted a declaration of an Ijebu man in the year 1901 in response to the then emerging modern Oyo hegemonic tendencies to shift the Yoruba capital (not cradle – Oyo never at any point thought of itself as the Yoruba cradle) from Ife towards itself. B.A. Agiri writes:
“In 1901 an Ijebu man found it necessary to make an emphatic declaration on Yoruba history:
I deny that Oyo is the capital city of Yoruba land. Ife, the cradle home of the whole Yorubas and the land of the deified Oduduwa, has been recognised by every interior tribe (including Benin and Ketu) for all intents and purposes as the capital city.*“
B.A. Agiri, “Early Yoruba History Reconsidered”, History in Africa, 1975, Vol. 2 (1975), p.1.
It is clear from the foregoing 1901 declaration of the Ijebu man (eight years before Obafemi Awolowo’s birth) that Oduduwa was admitted into the Yoruba pantheon after his life – this is the precise significance of the word deify as used here.
I really hope it wasn’t Obafemi Awolowo who (while still a 'baby in heaven') forced this poor Ijebu man to make this declaration.
Now that your regular AwOlOwO-straw has been shattered, would you now begin a fresh search for another modern Yoruba leader to clutch at as the ‘brain’ behind the prevalence of Oduduwa and Ife in general Yoruba thought?
May be Tinubu would be your new song, who knows!? Anyways, good-luck to you on your new search.
Firstly, I have demonstrated in the foregoing section that Oduduwa is a deified entity. In otherr words, he is an historical personage that was admitted into the Yoruba pantheon after his life.
Secondly, nowhere does the Yoruba people of Ketu (in today’s Republic of Benin) claim that Oduduwa’s gender was mistaken.
I have provided a detailed explanation specifically on this (see: [url=]HERE[/url]) where I differentiated between a deity on one hand, and the actual person whose name the deity came to bear on the other hand.
Your comprehension level must be very base to still be getting these two conflated despite the obvious distinction. Or are you simply pretending to be dumb?
The Yorubas in general deified Oduduwa as a male deity. The Yorubas of Ketu deified Oduduwa as a female deity. The Yorubas of Benin kingdom (i.e. the Oba’s family, et al.) deified Oduduwa as both a male deity and a female deity.
The deification of Oduduwa (just like the deification of Olokun, et al.) has no definite bearing on the actual gender of the persons whose names these deities came to bear.
If a moronic dunce like yourself feel the need to make baseless assertions of course without any supporting evidence, then an efficient thinker like myself can justifiably dismiss such assertions also without having to provide any evidence.
Reference: Christopher Hitchens: “Hitchens’s Razor”[/I].
cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980
Not to loose any point because of your useless meaningless lengtgi writeups i will have to answer all this your jargon systematically
I never said the benin-ife was bind on ife or yoruba people, i have always been making it known that the benins were the ones who took the steps to destroy their own history by bringing the yorubas into it, in a bid to get cultural and political favour, during the creation of nigeria
[i]Taoles, are you now saying if the myth binds with the other various account then the myth becomes truthful..... Lol desperado
You dummy, neither did i call my precious monarch unprintable names, like i said the oba benin knows the truth but they decided hide it, from their people not to spoil their little game they playing
First of all, it isn’t merely my personal claim to say that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy there.
Instead, this is the standard traditional Yoruba account and also the standard no “official” traditional Benin account.
So, are you really standing by your statement that the current Oba of Benin, Omo n’Oba Ewuare II, is a dummy? Because he also admits this same historical fact just as his ancestors.
Moreover, this is the standard narrative in historical scholarship just as you have seen in my above reference to the work of the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime.
If you must hold a view contrary to this standard Yoruba traditional account, standard Benin traditional account, and established position of historical scholarship; then you must be wiling to present an extraordinary, redoubtable, and firmly established body of evidence in order to be regarded as sane.
Just as I have once schooled two of your brothers on this before, an account collected from Benin is not binding on me unless it agrees with other vast independent corroborating accounts.
If this account quoted in H.L. Roth, 1903 (but collected from Benin in 1897) must be binding on anyone, then it is a Bini whom it must be binding on, not a Yoruba. I hope this is clear.
What is binding on me, instead, is the standard Yoruba account (which interestingly is also corroborated independently by the standard and “official” Benin account) which states that Oranmiyan came to Benin for the purpose of establishing a dynastic monarchy.
So, if this account which states that Eweka is the Yoruba man who came from Ife to rule the Binis is what you subscribe to and not the standard and “official” Benin account, then you’ve just simply transitioned from frypan to fire.
In other words, all you did is simply to identify a different Ife source through which “Ogun” worship found its way into the Edo nation. . . . Having said that however, if one is to be fair to the overwhelming vast majority of the extant Benin traditional accounts on this subject, it becomes obvious then to realize that the 1897 account simply conflated the father (Oranmiyan) with his son (Eweka), especially as Eweka (and not Oranmiyan) eventually became the first Oba according to standard extant Yoruba and Benin accounts.
Is this supposed to be an angry reaction to the fact that I exposed you to be a closet gay?
. Staged by Tinubu or who? Remember that your AwOlOwO-straw has already been shattered. So, hurry up in your search for a new candidate.
First of all, Ewuare 1 did not bring any “idol” from anywhere. You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it.
Secondly, my whole point about Ewuare 1 is that your inane criterion of proof by non-oral accounts is simply dumb and self-contradictory.
This is because you agree that Ewuare 1 lived despite the fact that the only historical proof of his existence is the body oral traditional accounts about him. I hope you now see my whole point about your dumbness and double standard.
Moreover, if the dedication of an ancestral altar to a certain Ewuare 1 is the needed proof that the said Ewuare 1 existed, then what does this same criterion tell you about the dedication of ancestral altars to Oduduwa and Ogun in Ife?
Even you yourself must have perceived the stench of your own double-standard and dumbness at this point.
But for emphasis though, the dedication of ancestral altars is obviously by itself not a proof that the dedicatee really lived.
How do we know for certain that the altar was not simply dedicated originally to a fictional entity? To clarify this would obviously require resort to oral narrations again. So you're back to square one.
In sum then, the actual historical proof of existence for such entities as Oduduwa, Ogun, Ewuare 1, et al. (in the obvious absence of any eyewitness written account about them) is the vast body of (exaggerated or unexaggerated) oral accounts which identifies them as historical personages.
It is interesting how you often get carried away by my lectures to the point that you forget the argument you were originally defending.
Your original argument was that “Ogun” is not indigenous to Ife. However, you’ve just been caught now affirming that Ogun was one of the aboriginal “sixteen elders” of Ife – the very argument you had initially set out to reject.
You seem to have been focused desperately and irrationally on rejecting the notion that Ogun ruled as King in Ife to the detriment of your own original argument that Ogun is not indigenous to Ife.
Having highlighted your fundamental contradiction here, it is important that I make the following clarifications in respect of Ogun as King in Ife as seen in “TABLE II” of your own attachment, and as seen in my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant Yoruba traditional accounts:
(1) The reference to Ogun as King in Ife is in clear relation to Ogun as a human and historical personage. Refer again to “TABLE II” of your attachment, as well as to my quotation of Professor Akintoye’s reference to the relevant traditional account.
(2) The reference to Ogun as one of the aboriginal elders of Ife as shown in your attachment here, on the other hand, is in clear relation to Ogun as one of the aboriginal deities “who descended with Oduduwa” in the earliest beginnings. Refer to the same page of your attachment here for this context.
cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980
I never said the benin-ife was bind on ife or yoruba people, i have always been making it known that the benins were the ones who took the steps to destroy their own history by bringing the yorubas into it, in a bid to get cultural and political favour, during the creation of nigeria
Taoles, are you now saying if the myth binds with the other various account then the myth becomes truthful..... Lol desperado
You dummy, neither did i call my precious monarch unprintable names, like i said the oba benin knows the truth but they decided hide it, from their people not to spoil their little game they playing
Post me the 1897 article which says oba of benin came from ife
TAO11 if you want to debate on the ife benin connections please telll me, i have a past thread i made solely for that purpose so stop distracting me..... If you need to argue on that tell me i will pull out the thread and we have it there
You foolish lady, that cant get a hold of herself because we benins ransacked her people to the bush and ruled over them cry me tears because i will keep telling everybody i meet yorubas were benin slaves
I hate it when i feel you drawing me out to kill Boredom or debating with males to achieve your festish desires, because they are some topics we shouldnt be discussing anymore, one is the benin-ife myth, so you keep bringing it up makes me wonder if you're psycho or something
Come out straight and let's digout once and for all, on the benin-validity, if you wont then shut your trap for ever and stop equating anything we share in common with the mumu ife myth of oromiyan
candidtalk: Semantics we can argue all day will gets us nowhere. It is entirely sensible of OP to infer that Kwara and Edo will prefer to be part of the SW than be elsewhere.
Even a lot of Igbos would prefer to remain in or move to the SW rather than return to or remain in the SE. let alone Edos who have good affinity with Yoruba people.
Which affinity do we have with yorubas, oga stop this your day dream when the country is divided we edos are taking lagos back, ekiti and ondo with delta state to form our own country, anything that is left from southwest belongs to you guys
We edos needs our country, too we cant leave in a country full of inborn cowards never
AreaFada2: But in Nigeria nobody originated anything except Yoruba. As much as I like our Yoruba people to excel and create many things, not everything should be hurriedly and condescendingly claimed.
Other tribes were not looking at Yoruba ayanyan all these millenniums doing nothing.
A trust to see one Nupe or Gbagyi person claiming Yoruba rush here huffing and puffing like puff adder soon.
gregyboy
In the other thread am currently following a Yoruba guy included edo in south west maps, na the issue i dey solve there,
candidtalk: Silly and cretinous IPOBian. They ask everyone to proffer meritorious argument in favor of regions they believe will do well if Nigeria breaks up and this otondo is only bothered about the States that should not be counted with the SW. This Igbo obsession with Yorubas na wa.
Go and give Kwara to the Fulanis na. As if the Yorubas in Kwara won't have a say where they would want to belong.
As for Edos, they will rather remain with the SW. Can you make a sane argument for why they would not? Olodo.
Abeg calm your fears about the Yoruba empire. You can still get visa to visit and return to your erosion-ravaged region after 3 months or face deportation.
See this one am edo, if my edo brother come in here and see this rubbish the thread will turn upside down, please redith your map make you no go dey do busy body pass yourself , carry edo put for south south, you nor be government
I gues we benins, are now fully aware of the fraudulent history of oromiyan and ife attached to the benin history, my wish is to set our history in the correct path... So we can tell our children the correct history instead of giving them unending arguments, if we allow myths like that of the oromiyan tales that sprang up around early 1900 by the benins for political and cultural benefits from the yoruba people naturalized into our history am sorry but even our own children will one day regard all our history as myth all because it is not connecting to them, and we may also endup loosing them completely to the yorubas too Lets devoid every benin history from any form of mythicism to safe guard of our true identity, we are benins the oba is a full fledged ancestory benin, forget the games that they are playing with yorubas and the tales of mystical oromiyan it is a political staged myth .... In my next post i will write more on it
The symbol of ayelala is a cross this cross can be found in benin, even before the arrival of the Portuguese among the benin people and even depicted on bronze it is not a Christian cross but an indigenous cross, ayelala is a benin idol just as olokun, and ogboni, they are not new, they are only new to the yoruba people
Watch how the yorubas will start to coin the yoruba etymology of the word ayelala to defend their points, but history is clear enough the cross on the ayelala symbol is that of benin
Pic 1 showing the benin bronze with an hanging cross on his neck
Pic 2, an ayelala shrine in benin
Note : after benin were ayelala is mostly worship the next is ondo and ekiti state were benin descendants can also be found unlike the other parts of yoruba
Aye means the name of the idol, lala means loud
Putting this two together it gives aye-sounding message
Ayellala is used to curse who so ever has stolen, lied, and people that do evi, l no evil doer can step in the shrine of ayelala or even even a wtch..... They will freeze
Onijagidijagan: Historical site sold and buildings errected on it. YES. The area used to be big as Ugbowo area of Benin before..sold out by greedy and selfish traditional rulers. I'm not saying this for you to believe me though.
Onijagidijagan: Now 95% of Oba ado area of Ife has a lot of modern building now errected on it...is only the shrine part reserved for traditional worship. Beside heads and remain of Oba of Ado has been excavated in the past around the area.
To were.... Lol, excavated you dont mean it for what purpose lol,
An historica site excavated
You, yorubas are fooling yourself my benin brothers were against me before on this benin-ife no connections but the moment you yorubas started flopping to my question they began to believe me, The more you guys flop the better for me
TAO11: The post was longer than typical, so here is the response to the concluding parts of your comment
No it is your ignorance that is actually so assorted.
The traditions are extremely clear that Oduduwa was deified after his reign in Ife.
While virtually all the Yoruba kingdoms deified Oduduwa as a male deity, the western Yoruba kingdom of Ketu (according to this specific tradition) deified Oduduwa as a female deity.
In fact, the Edo kingdom of Benin deified Oduduwa as both a male deity and a female deity.
Having said that, you have once been caught falsely claiming that Olokun is deified in Benin worship as both a male deity and a female deity.
It took my intervention to clarify to you that while the Yorubas introduced only the male deification of Olokun to the Edos, the Yorubas themselves continue to venerate both a male deification and a female deification of Olokun.
Now just as is the case with Olokun, it is absurd then to conclude from the foregoing instances of Oduduwa‘s deification variety that the original bearer of the name must have been both a male and a female personage; or that there is some confusion about which he really was while he lived.
No! Deification may obviously take any gender form regardless of the actual gender of the deified individual during their lifetime. . . . Having clarified the distinction between a deity and the actual human whose name it bears; what seems most likely to have originally precipitated the deification of Oduduwa as a female deity in some Yoruba liturgies and traditions is the existence of an actual Yoruba goddess by a similar name — the goddess named ”Odudu” who is regarded as the mother of the deities Eye Umole.
In relation to the Yoruba goddess “Odudu”, Professor Akintoye writes citing A.B. Ellis (1894:40):
“A goddess named Odudu was regarded as the wife of of Orisanla and mother of the gods (Eye umole or Iya imole). In certain liturgies and localities, the name of this goddess later became confused with the name Oduduwa, the name of an important male personage in later Yoruba history. (Oduduwa was later deified as a male god.) Odudu is still worshipped in some places in Yorubaland as Odudu, not Oduduwa; Odudu’s shrine and rituals still exist in Ado (in Ekiti), where she is worshipped as mother of all mothers and their little children*”
S.A. Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, p.32.
They did at the very instant they sent to Ife requesting an Ife-Yoruba king to come over and help direct their local affairs after their prior monarchy had plunged into some profound disorder.
Lol � please no one should take this lady serious, i finshed her on olokun thread she and her brother... Lol dont mind her likes, is not showing true reality, if you know you know, the people giving her the likes are bunch of yoruba loosers who are full of tearful behind the screen because am bursting are bubbles... Lol Yorubas are cowards
Anyway dont twist my words, and don't try to confuse people too by telling lies
Olokun is an edo worship anyone who got the time should visit my profile for the thread,warning, it will too graphical for any yorubas who visit
Olokun is two people male and female, living together, husband and wife, the male olokun poses only males, while the female olokun posses only the female,
The screenshot below shows a benin man on chalk describing how he was poses by a female olokun diety making him behave like a lady
He specifically said a female olokun deity and and not a male olokun deity
So oduduwa na big time, or a pure diety that never existed and worship by ife people
Lol the bolded makes me laugh did oduduwa even exist in the first place mad woman
You think we are your fellow yorubas that one useless myth would unite them
Please i want my yoruba wanna be cousins to follow me in my next thread i want to further burst you guys bubbles
BabaRamota1980: You served in Olokun court but you are not Olokun Priest.
What is Okun in Edo language?
Please don't ask me any foolish questions again i wont reply you.... Visit my profile and go through the olokun thread please don't cry when you see prove
Culture › Re: . by gregyboy(m): 11:56am On Sep 03, 2020*. Modified: 7:31pm On Sep 03, 2020
TAO11: I am not to blame for having to churn out a devastating refutation to each and every dog-shit you heap without leaving a single one un-trashed.
So, you must learn to get used to reading a detailed and historically dense text like mine or you look out for another pastime — maybe stargazing me from the background while I school other less-dumb Edo liars.
In fact, you should actually be grateful to me for being generous enough to blocking out some time from my schedule for the sole purpose of schooling you.
My exchange with you has always been (and will always be) one-sided because while you have everything to learn from it, I have absolutely nothing to learn. So be grateful.
I am not sure why you think you can have your cake and eat it.
Just some comment you were jealous that my Yoruba brothers gave me several likes for even more lengthy comments.
Yet in the same breath you feel the need to complain on their behalf illogically that’s they get bored from the same comments.
Is there any end or at least limit to your contradictions?
Interesting! I am excited to see this lie that gayboy (sorry) gregyboy has found in my foregoing comment where I alluded to Wyndham.
I am not sure how your specific comment here belie my earlier comment in relation to Wyndham. May be you want to re-type this in English language. That should help me see your point here.
But for emphasis again in case you got confused, my comment in this regard was that the Palace’s “official” king-list treats the names “Ogun”, “Obalufon-Ogbogbodirin”, and “Osangangan Obamakin” as three distinct individuals.
I then added that historians, on the other hand, have come to recognize these three names as representing one and the same personage rather than three distinct individuals. I also took time to briefly spell out the historians’ rationale.
I cited the same article (from which you took your screenshot) as an example of this position of the historians by alluding to the “TABLE II” on page 160 —Whyndham’s chart particularly. See the embedded image below for the table.
[img][/img]
Given that it has become very obvious that you have to be spoon-fed to grasp very basic stuffs, my next block of comment will then focus on dumbing down the chart for you so you can see how it actually substantiates my assertion that historians do NOT regard “Ogun” and “Obalufon Ogbogbodirin” to be different personages.
As is to be expected of an ignoramus like you, the content of that basic simple chart has to be dumbed down for you to grasp what it says. And I will do just that.
Firstly, this specific table — “TABLE II” — shows the “genealogical relationship” between the specifically named kings. This is not particularly a king-list as you’ve ignorantly assumed.
In fact, the phrase “genealogical relationship” is actually spelt out clearly. I’m not sure how you managed to have missed it.
Now to break this phrase down for you as it is used in this context, it signifies a king reigning just right after his own father’s reign.
This is to contrast with the fact that some of the kings reigned NOT following their father’s reign, but following their uncle’s reign for example.
Secondly, there is absolutely zero evidence for your ignorant remark that each of the three charts is “different” from the other.
As such, your assumption that Whyndham may have been mistaken is simply a self-highlight of your gross ignorance.
Having foregrounded the two foregoing backgrounds, I turn now to spoon-feeding you on how to examine the charts closely.
Starting with Wyndham’s, it is clear from his chart above that he depicts Ogun as the king who not only succeeded Oduduwa directly, but one who is also his son.
Comparing his Oduduwa—Ogun link with his Ogun—Oranmiyan link, his indication of an unnamed intermediate king connecting Ogun to Oranmiyan becomes very obvious. And he obviously indicates no such intermediation between Oduduwa and Ogun.
Now contrasting Wyndham’s chart with Ademakinwa’s (where all the four names from Oduduwa to Oranmiyan are clearly spelt out), the equation of Ogun and Obalufon Ogbogbodirin as one and the same personage thus becomes a logically inevitable conclusion.
And like I have noted repeatedly, this is the position of the historians even though the Palace has its own different position.
To further bolster my assertion about this equation as the position of the historians, it suffices to quote from the peer-reviewed work of a distinguished veteran historian of African and Yoruba history, Professor S.A. Akintoye:
“Oduduwa was succeeded by a man identified in the traditions as his son. ... Some traditions name this successor as Ogun, but the name by which he has come down most clearly is Obalufon Ogbogbodinrin ... Obalufon Ogbogbodinrin is said to have been a very impressive personality. His subjects said of him that he shone like a large sun in the sky; hence, his other cognomen Osangangan-Obamokin ... All traditions agree that his reign was long, and that it was peaceful most of the way.”
S.A. Akintoye, “A History of the Yoruba People”, Amalion Publishing, 2010, p.81. [The bolded words carry profound weights].
Are you talking about the myth of how Osanobua gave birth to the fiat king of Benin as his last born son?
Or how the Ogisos sky-dived without a parachute and landed at Benin-city round about?
Or how Oghene descended by means of a chain from heaven to sand-fill the earth which was flooded by Ame?
Or how a European managed to sneak himself into the quarters of the last Ogiso’s daughter perhaps raping her, and ultimately supplanting the Ogiso to establish the Oba dynasty as the first Oba of Benin?
I can go on and on. In the light of the foregoing, it is advised that you may want to channel your energy appropriately and accordingly. . . . But to educate you as part of my public service, historians the world over do not simply dismiss mythology an ignorant simpleton like yourself would think they do.
Mythology often serve to historians as a huge corpus and repository of certain kernel of actual historical information that has been modified, distorted, and exaggerated through the passage of time.
Discerning the kernel of history hidden away within the nucleus of a mythological account (which has been fleshed by many centuries-layers of exaggerations and distortions) is a central aspect of a historian’s job.
Nope, this is false. The Benin king-list problem is not mere about dates. It is deeper and graver than that.
For example, the earliest officially sanctioned Benin king-list features twenty-three (23) successive Obas from Eweka(1) to Ovonramwen.
However, today the Binis’ king-list features thirthy-five (35) successive Obas from Eweka(1) to Ovonramwen.
So, it is clear that this is beyond the question of what date did who rule. This is more grave as it involves a whopping twelve (12) audio Obas who seem to have been manufactured from thin air.
Furthermore, there are other conflicting king-lists compiles sometimes in-between these earliest and latest ones.
In fact, this conflict is also present within the Esekhure priesthood (i.e. the priesthood of those dedicated to memorizing the dynastic list and sacrificing to the past Obas) since it has been observed that one Esekhurhe’s list contradicts another’s.
Are you actually drunk at this point, or you’re simply grossly ignorant, or your Edo lying nature is kicking in??
Captain Ernest Roupell was the first person to compile a king-list of Benin Obas, and that was in the year 1898.
So, which nonsense European was compiling Benin king-list since the Europeans’ arrival in the late-1400/early-1500.
If you must lie, then be reminded that it is I whom you’re talking to. You should have known that I wouldnt miss the slightest opportunity to disgrace you. So, do not lie again going forward. Okay?
Interesting!! So, a supposed grave which was made in a pre-literate context prior to modern times is your supporting evidence for your conclusion that a certain Ewuare was indeed buried there. You have to try again, you are clearly not meeting your own dumP criterion yet or even a logical criterion.
Wooden carvings showing their name as written from the 15th cEnTury?? You also have to try again here as well. You are yarning opaz both as per your dumP criterion, or even a logical criterion.
You have to stop deluding yourself and yet believing it. The problem is not merely about dates, it actually extends to touch on how human beings are been manufactured from thin air, isn’t it?
How does this super story prove that Ewuare is a real human being?
There are many statues of mythical figures all over the world.
Also, if you must be willing to make a claim (including a moronic claim like this one), then you must also be willing to prove your own claim. There isn't aNyOne” else whom you must be hoping on to that for you, okay?
In sum, not only have you not met your own dumP criterion, you haven’t met a logical criterion here.
No contemporary of Ewuare wrote down a single thing about his name and life event. As such, anything you put forward is called oral tradition which is subject to historical scrutiny.
Are you willing to concede at this point that you have failed to prove Ewuare’s existence using your own dumP criterion of requesting for other than oral accounts — that is, written eyewitness account.
Really?? Is this gregyboy or someone else. My flogging seem to be really effective oo.
To be clear: (1) There is no European eyewitness written account of the Benin king called Ewuare(1).
(2) If what you meant by ”local account” is a local non-EUrOpEaN eyewitness wrotten account about the Benin king called Ewuare(1), then I’m sorry to break your heart even that too does not exist.
(3) What exist then as as evidence for Ewuare’s life is simply a type of evidence called local oral accounts.
Are you now willing to accept this type of evidence namely oral traditions (of course with caveats and cautions) and then accept accept the historical conclusion that Ewuare(1) must have existed; or are you willing to remain in your delusions and thus accept that Ewuare(1) does not exist??
You can’t have your cake and eat it. The choice is now yours!
Anyone (whether Yoruba or non-Yoruba) who knows anything at all about Ife’s history and its kings already knows that Ogun is an early Ife ruler in the second dynasty regardless of the position they adopt — i.e. academic or traditional view as I have already demonstrated.
(1) Ogun’s reign as king in Ife corresponds, in the light of contemporary historical estimation, to the mid/late-1000s CE.
(2) Ewuare(1)’s reign on the other hand corresponds, in the light of contemporary historical estimation, to sometimes around the mid/late-1400s CE.
(3) The word “ògún” when broken down into it component parts has absolutely no meaning in the language of the Edo people. However, it does have a clear meaning in the language of the Yoruba people.
In conclusion then, even if your claim (that Ewuare’s pre-coronation name used to be Ogun) is a true claim; this claim proves two things in the light of the foregoing three points:
(i) That Ewuare was not the first or original bearer of the name “Ogun” as the dates have shown clearly.
(ii) That Ewuare is connected in both race and language to the Ife-Yoruba subgroup to which the original bearer of the name belongs — especially as the name has absolutely no meaning in Edo language.
Sounds like what you wrote when you ran out of ideas.
Of course at this point you should be able to “validate” that considering the schooling you’ve enjoyed up to this point.
In fact, some clear, direct, and logical questions to ponder in order to help yourself “validate” that are as follows:
(a) Is there any Benin traditional account which states that Ewuare (mid/late-1400s) was named Ogun until coronation??
(b) Is there any Ife traditional account which states that one of Oduduwa’s heirs named Ogun (mid/late-1000) ruled Ife as king??
(c) Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) have any meaning in the language of the Edo people??
(d) Does the word “Ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) have any meaning in the language of the Yoruba people??
Hello y’all! ghostwon has actually deleted this account.
Well, Ososomaoye (at least) lives right inside his palace. I wonder from whom else it receives worship? From the people?
Moreover, I know about him worshipping his ancestors though. Oba Eweka(2) informs us through H.L. Ward-Price that he (Oba Eweka) must pay homage every morning at dawn to his Great-Lord (Oghene) who lives in Ife.
This has been debunked in preceding blocks of comment where I showed why he is in fact, Yoruba via his supposed pre-coronation name “Ogun”, and where I showed that he does worship both a palace idol as well as his Oghene who lives in Ife.
Eba, Fufu, and Akpu also give strength. So they can be regarded as strength, right?
Stop making dumb fraudulent comments. You have already admitted earlier that “Ogun” has no meaning in the Edo language.
More like you requesting me to shock you by proving to you that Nairaland exists.
Does your delusions not give you enough shock??
No it is your ignorance which is so assorted.
The traditions are extremely clear that Oduduwa was deified after his reign.
While almost all the kingdoms deified Oduduwa as a male deity, the far western Yoruba kingdom of Ketu (according to this tradition here) deified Oduduwa as a female deity.
In fact, you have been caught before trying to falsely claim that Olokun is deified as Benin worship as having both a male and a female manifestation.
It took my intervention to shut you down as a lier by clarifying that while the Benin were introduced only to the male deification of Olokun, the Yorubas as the indigenous owners have both.
They did at the very instant they sent to Ife requesting for a civilized king to direct their local affairs.
Again total rubbish from you, i dont get the mention when you quote me, so i endup searching for it myself Before i can see it
Lol, olokun is a male and female deity they are both two individual male and female living together probably husband and wife, i have served in olokun court as a boy, i know this fact, Oduduwa is a diety and some yorubas still refer him as a diety who never existed he wasnt defied as you claim..... The ketu people knows this that he was a mere diety who never breathed if he existed his gender wouldn't be mistaken by them
The Wyndham guy gave is own false list, probably because is a white guy his list became accepted and was posted on wiki....i have read through that article nowere did they equate Obalufon as ogun, in the article they even
I have argued on ife kinglist before now, and even checked the Wikipedia kinglist few years back nothing was including ogun at the list.... Lol
Your mouth is running like tap, that very moment you get so emotional because am bursting your bubbles, but at thesame time you're trying not to show it......
You still didnt prove how ogun belongs to the ife or yoruba people nether have i proven too ogun is indegenious to benin, but i believe our ventures into yorubas might have taken it there or brought it, it is still not yet proven by me, but claiming oromiyan brought it, makes you a dummie and a desperado, oromiyan coming to benin was a lie, you posted a quote dating from 1903, supporting the fact it was eweka that came from ife not oromiyan here you are going against your quote... Lol TAO11, or should i call you taolesbian maybe taoles will do
Note: ife is a staged political compilation to unite yorubas under one political umbrella, all yorubas know this, but wouldn't want to agree not to cause disunity
Ewuare ancestral alter is still in the palace you don't believe ewaure but you making reference to the idol brought by ewuare himself
Picture one showing ogun as one of the 16 elders, and not as a king TAO11 desperado
Pucture 2 shows the author saying the arrangement and names of the various ife kings are not accurate and shouldn't be taking seriously
Picture 3 tells that the ogiso dynasty was a myth that keeps the yoruba masturbating... Lol if ogiso dynasty was not real like i and scholars believe then which monarchy did the yoruba or oromiyan take power from and what was the title of the benin king then.....
Yoruba are benin wanna be funny but true
Pic 4 is helping me tell TAO11 that Roupell's benin king list was incomplete because he didn't ask the right people but instead commoners in benin, so stop masturbating in Roupell's kinglist... Lol
Olu317: Dont pay attention to Areafadaa2 monicker because he knows yoruba fathered the first prince,who became the second king addressed as omo n' oba eweka(ọwọká).
European scholars or writers pay more attention to yorubas achievement because evidences discovered in BINI Palace as belonging to Yoruba people remained the reason,oviedos are fighting tooth&nail to get recognision,from world writers which is the reason, you see some of these Oviedos(children of Edos),especially from Bini quarters posting false information online.
How do you even want to relate with people who condemn their own son that wrote Bini HIstory? This alone shows you how desperate they are to achieve everything under false pretence.So,dont disturb yourself.at all. Devoid of these Oviedos, do you know Lanre Ogunoye ? Based in Lagos, into Property Consultancy.
When orun oba ado head was dug, what was found inside?
Onijagidijagan: Let's leave that for the future. A truthful Oba of Benin or Benin Palace chief will reveal the truth in future. The story was proposed for peace to reign in the Oba's palace and Edo kingdom
You're bleeped up, bro
Were did you come out from,
So everything you said we should believe you because you said it with no prove
Onijagidijagan: The early Oba of Benin not only paid homage to Ife but they also did the following: Pictures depicting Oduduwa are kept in Oba's palace. Yearly there's Oduduwa festival in Benin to respect Oduduwa.
When early Oba of Benin join their ancestors, they will be taken to Ife. Amongst others
Onijagidijagan: How did Oba of Benin gave Oduduwa?? Hope is not Ekaladeran story you're still referring to? The Ogisos family has stressed Ekaladeran is a fraud. Yoruba told you is fraud
Itsekiris your neibgours does not believe it and disapproved it.
Oduduwa is not even the direct father of Oranmiyan is like saying Oba Eweka 1 is the father of Oba Ereduwa does that make any sense to you?
Now tell me when Oyo kingdom and Ife kingdom was paying tributes or homage to Oba of Benin? Benin palace will slap you if they hear such thing from you.
If there was no ekaladeran story how did oromiyan come to benin
Onijagidijagan: How did Oba of Benin gave Oduduwa?? Hope is not Ekaladeran story you're still referring to? The Ogisos family has stressed Ekaladeran is a fraud. Yoruba told you is fraud
Itsekiris your neibgours does not believe it and disapproved it. Oduduwa is not even the direct father of Oranmiyan is like saying Oba Eweka 1 is the father of Oba Ereduwa does that make any sense to you?
Now tell me when Oyo kingdom and Ife kingdom was paying tributes or homage to Oba of Benin? Benin palace will slap you if they hear such thing from you.
You're slapping yourself in the face already to. Make the oba of benin come from ife.... After we are done with you, you will crawl back and another yoruba fellow will step in, Mraphel came in before you and he has gone
The bolded is one of the reasons myth is not good to be told , it always leaves gap space for people to fill,
Do you know they are about 100 of different myth from benin-ife historical connections do you want me to show you the very first one of the myth.... Lol
If you insist i will
So by your illustration the one who overlords is been payed homage to duely, so i ask did oba of benin pay homage to ife and alafin
Onijagidijagan: Have told you Oduduwa's son founded Owo unlike your Igodomigodo people that were colonized by Ife kingdom.
Did u listen to your king say he's from the lineage of Oduduwa? Look at the expression on his face when he made that statement. Its full of languages that brainwashed Edo like u will not understand. Also he recognized Oramiyan as the first Oba of Benin ( A thing will have been telling people like you for decades here but chose not to believe always disproving it).
Many of Benin here said Eweka 1 was the first Oba.
More truth kept secret will be disclosed in the future.. Una go see una unclothedness. If Oba of Benin palace does not want to put the history straight? He will lose a lot of respect.
Oba of Lagos cannot lie about his origin, if it were to be Edo they will make themselves superman cheaply with history.
Our oba is smart he is pulling some political strings with those words they know the truth,
The games is been played secretly, between benin and the entire yoruba, if benin had the political power to establish is myth, all yorubas will paying homage to the oba of benin,
But we the elite knows benin-ife is a lie stop masturbation on it, to uplift your dead ego unless you want to prove me wrong....... That it really happened
Your best yoruba defender couldn't defend his point despite been vast in both benin and Yoruba history
The oba of benin says... Lol funny yoruba guy....
The oba of benin also says they gave you oduduwa is that also truth?
AreaFada2: Oh boy you can lie. You are not from Owo. Maybe an immigrant to Owo. Tell me your lineage in Owo: Iloro, Ojomo Oluda, Ologho (Ogunoye, Ajike, Olateru-Olagbegi) or which quarter?
No Oma Ologho will spew nonsense and lie so effortlessly like you.
You know everybody in Yorubaland is claiming descent from Oduduwa since it became political trendy to do so. A big lie. Oduduwa lived 800 years ago. Yorubaland is way older. Benin/Igodo was already well-established by 40BC. I don't expect Yoruba race to much younger than that. I doubt even if Ojugbelu Arere even came from Ife.
Oduduwa story has many versions. Ekaladerhan from Igodo, from Yemen, Egypt, Saudi, Nubia, Israel, etc. All cannot be correct. These are probably mythical stories that sprang up at various times. Eventually coalescing. They were probaly about different people previously.
Even Olugbo of Ugbo casts serious doubt on the Yoruba version.
Kudos to you..... Some benins like you most times get carried away by the influence of the big tribe
AreaFada2: Oh boy you can lie. You are not from Owo. Maybe an immigrant to Owo. Tell me your lineage in Owo: Iloro, Ojomo Oluda, Ologho (Ogunoye, Ajike, Olateru-Olagbegi) or which quarter?
No Oma Ologho will spew nonsense and lie so effortlessly like you.
You know everybody in Yorubaland is claiming descent from Oduduwa since it became political trendy to do so. A big lie. Oduduwa lived 800 years ago. Yorubaland is way older. Benin/Igodo was already well-established by 40BC. I don't expect Yoruba race to much younger than that. I doubt even if Ojugbelu Arere even came from Ife.
Oduduwa story has many versions. Ekaladerhan from Igodo, from Yemen, Egypt, Saudi, Nubia, Israel, etc. All cannot be correct. These are probably mythical stories that sprang up at various times. Eventually coalescing. They were probaly about different people previously.
Even Olugbo of Ugbo casts serious doubt on the Yoruba version.
Yorubas want us to destroy their history, we will,
I dont just have time for it now, when i am ready the mods in culture thread will have no choice to ban me, for unfolding their myths
Even our brothers from ondo will also be lumping us as yorubas what a pity to any benin descendants who lives in Yoruba lands doing that,
Dont let the yorubas in your mist deceive you we all are true blooded edo people we gave them everything we have in similar
Culture › Re: . by gregyboy(m): 12:02pm On Sep 02, 2020*. Modified: 12:35pm On Sep 02, 2020
TAO11: Per your “dumP” criterion, can you explain how we may know if this Ewuare is a real human and not a mYtHical figure?
Where is the eUrOpEAN eYeWiTnEss account which pRoVes that Ewuare is a human being and not a mYtHical figure??
Per your “dumP” criterion, how do we know if this super story about Ewuare is real and not a myth?
Can you explain how we may know that Ewuare himself is a real human and not a mYtHical figure?
Where is the eUrOpEAN eYeWiTnEss account which pRoVes all these super story about this mythical Ewuare??
Per your dumP criterion, eUrOPEaN eYewItNesS account is what we must examine. So where is it??
Oops! I actually found it. Per your “dumP” criterion, didn’t Captain rOuPelL pRoVe that your BENIN CHIEFS actually fabricated at least 13 unreal mythical Benin Obas including the so-called Oba Ewuare(1)??
See: Roupell’s Officials (1898) cited in H.L. Roth (1903), p.6-7; also cited in R.E. Bradbury (1959) p. 266.
Nope!
I have just demonstrated in the foregoing fragment of my comment how a eUrOPEAN account pRoVes that it is in fact BENIN CHIEFS (and not Yorubas) who fabricate a whopping 13 unreal mythical Benin Obas (including the so-called Oba Ewuare(1)) and then passed them off to the gullible Edos as though they were real humans. /s
Thank God for Captain RoUpElL.
I am super glad that you just admitted unknowingly that there is no real human personage in Benin history who originally bore the name "Ogun". Only a mythical “Ogun” exists in the Edos’ worldview. Isn’t that correct?
Now let’s dig even this myth itself to see where it must have actually originated from by examining if the word “Ogun” itself has any meaning in the indigenous language of the Edo people. See the following fragment of comment.
Names aren’t coined from thin air, you dummy.
Names — whether cOinEd or un-cOiNeD (if those even have any meaning ) exist in a linguistic context; that is: they come from the reference frame of specific language(s). They don’t just pop-out from no where.
For example, the Bini account of how the name “Eweka” came about states that it resulted from the Yoruba phrase “owo mi ka”.
[Be careful not to tag your Obas as old fools again at this point because they accept this to be the case].
In fact, off the top of my head I can clearly tell (just as any typical Yoruba person) that the name “Ewuare” is from a pure unadulterated Yoruba phrase, viz. ”ewu á ré” meaning: “danger will bypass".
So, you have to stop citing your ignorance as an excuse/evidence for your supposition of meaninglessness for these names.
In a similar vein, the name “Ogun” is not meaningless as you’ve ignorantly assumed. In fact, it is simply dumb of you to have suggested that ?Ewuare (1)’s father gave his son a meaningless name.
In fact, the name "Ogun" could not possibly have any meaning from the language of the Edos for the simple reason that it is simply not an indigenous Edo word; hence your ignorance-induced absurd assumption that it does not have any meaning.
I am actually glad that you are honest enough here to have admitted that the word “Ogun” has no meaning to you in Edo language.
Rather, it is a Yoruba name of a real human who reigned as King in the second Ife dynasty. In other words, the word “Ogun” is not without meaning in the language of the Yoruba people.
First of all, I blame your naiveness, ignorance and inferiority complex for this shallow understanding.
Had it not been so, you would have realized that while pre-literate royal courts have their own standard king-lists passed down over the centuries from generation to generation; historians on the other hand invest academic efforts into making the “best” sense of such “official” lists by attempting to harmonize them with other quite discrepant accounts floating around in the public sphere outside of the royal court.
By so doing, they attempt to present what they call the most likely picture of the historical state of affairs.
Having educated you on that, it now becomes clear why some variation in details may be noticed between what the Palace recites as its king-lists on one hand; and what a historian like Ojo Bada (who is cited in your screenshot of Ade Obayemi, 1979:158) publishes after an academic attempt to harmonize different accounts on another hand.
Regardless of the list one considers however, historians recognize “Ogun” to be one and the same person as “Obalufon Ogbogbodirin” (a.k.a. Obalufon 1 who is also said to be known by the cognomen "Osangangan Obamakin") rather than as distinct individuals. The Palace however separates the three names as distinct individuals.
In fact, the author of your own attachment also indicated this position of the historians in the chart shown on page 160 where he cites Wyndham to indicate that “Ogun” is one and the same person as “Obalufon Ogbogbodirin”. You just have to be willing to read.
Moreover, a linguistic clue as per the existence of the word "irin" (Yoruba for "iron") in the cognomen "Obalufon Ogogbodirin" also appears to further bolster the historians' position that "Obalufon Ogbogbodirin" is not another Ife king besides "Ogun", but rather one and the same individual.
Moreover, the name “Ogun” does have a meaning in Yoruba language but not in Edo language. You should always be aware and reminded of this. . . . I should add at this point as an appendix that the problem of chronology (from an academic perspective) is not unique to the Ife king list.
Instead, it is unique to all pre-literate societies, and as such is also present in the Edo king list even in a damaging fashion actually.
Unlike in the Ife king-list where Ogun is identified by historians to be one and the same person as Obalufon 1; there is no such reconciliation or explanation for the missing 13 mythical Benin Obas in the earliest Benin king-list compiled from the Benin Palace by Captain Roupell in 1898.
In order to further appreciate the length, breadth, and depth of this mess in Benin history, you may refer for a start to R.E. Bradbury’s “Chronological Problems in the Study of Benin History”, Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 1, No. 4, December 1959.
You don’t read, so I’m not sure how to ask you to take your own advice instead of advicing someone who reads.
Also, it appears that you feel very pained by those likes I get just as some Igbos here too are pained by them. Get used to them though.
Please keep your writeup short, please it will still end up giving your point, please keep it short, do you wear glasses,? God
Nawa ooh, if you lengthy writeups doesnt bore you it bores majourity people even your fellow yoruba fans
You lied about this Wyndham guy i will post the screenshot
The scrrenshot shows list compiled by 3 different people and no one on the list was a compilation from the other
Wyndham guy who is a European that gave a different kinglsit from the two yorubas maybe fhe mistake was coming from him
Yoruba history is bleeped with myth that i dont even have time to start entagling it for them, but i dont want their bleeped up history near my beloved benin history.....
Anyway the benin kinglist chronology was to ascertain the dates of the benin various kings, atleast at the end of the article they came with a conclusions that from the arrival of the Europeans in benin that the kinglist was nearly accurate with almost correct dating
Ewuare was never a myth my friend, is grave tomb is still at isi were he was buried, when a monarchs die they are special priest who attends to them at their burial site, so as to easily summon their spirit if need be,
Have you walked around benin you will still see the burial site of many kings with their woooden carvings this are burial sites as old as 15century
Benin datings may not be correct but the oba list are more than correct
There is a statue of a woman who helped oba ewuare and her burial site is still at ring road anyone can go there and take dating samples, edo was also named after the servants that helped ewuare, and lastly ewaure burial site is still at isi till date
Benin knew the value of dating and documenting long ag, o they carefully made plans to carefully document their history, their animism worship made it necessary to call every past oba of benin spirt if need, so dey carefully secured thier burial site not to miss things up and dey also created a stool to keep the records of the past kings
I never also made statements that all evidence must involve European eyewitness atleast if there is one we will compare it to the local account, if there is non we will evaluate still
Again you made no sense in that lengthy writeup, if you bring that kinglsit of yours, claiming ogun was a ruler many of your yoruba brothers will depute it instantly, they are just calm because youre arguing with a nob yoruba
If you there it create a thread supporting it,
Tao11 am not impressed by you... You can do more
But as for now i can really validate who owns ogun worship and which tribe borrowed it from who we will keep reading, i hope my benin brothers can help me out
Etinosa1234, ghostwon, AreaFada2 and the others
Again the oba doesnt worship any deity at the palace he simply worships is deceased ancestors and perform ritual rites to everyone of them,
So if youre claiming oba worships ogun at the palace so he must be a yoruba or from ife, you failed at that point only commoners worship smaller idols because oba is the biggest idol
We know ogun is iron and iron is strength, calling oba umogun is a praise name to his strength
TAO11, i need something shocking from you, you are loosing out, i want you to validate benin-ife happened
Yoruba history is so mixup that oduduwa is still regsrded as a female deity... Lol
Why did benin volunteer to put themselves into this their bleeped history self
lx3as: Sensible people know that Ekaladerhan's concocted moon light tale originated from Oba Erediauwa. How could Yoruba people in about 8 states with about 20 senatorial Districts and in more than 5 countries came from people that their entire extension not more than few local government areas? Moreover, they decided to drop the Ogiso title, their gods and deities for Yorubas'. The Ogiamien's story is more genuine but they should forget about relegating Oba of Bini to few LGAs.
Lol, ignoramus, is not ekaladeran story that connected ogiemien, instead of admiting benin -ife was a lie, you are finding ways to manipulate it, and you still flop at it,
Culture › Re: Ayelala Is A Benin Worship Dont Mind The Yorubas For Claiming It by gregyboy(op): 4:19pm On Sep 05, 2020
you know, the people giving her the likes are bunch of yoruba loosers who are full of tearful behind the screen because am bursting are bubbles... Lol
