Their heart would be beating so fast now as they click the link
macof, BabaRamota1980, LegendHero tao11
If the kinglist of benin in 1897 and 1901 excluded oromiyan in its list
Why did in 1924 Talbot included oromiyan as a ruler in the kinglist same as egharevba, if indeed the reasons the first earliest two didn't add oromiyan was because he never ruled, so why did talbot add him still
Because as far as i can see 1914 had passed so probably it was altered to include oromiyan for ethnic favour by the benins....
We also saw that in 1903, it was eweka that was sent from ife to benin, this was the very first origin and the beginning of the distortion on benin history
The qoute.... Eweka was sent from Ife to rule benin and when he came to the city he oppressed the weak, took their wives and if any man be too strong for him he makes a truce with him
This very first quote never included oromiyan coming to benin like Tao11 always masturbate on With her love for oromiyan tales
I believe after some years before 1924, some cultural supiority qualms erupted between alafin and ooni, so there was a need for the ooni to include him in the moonlight tales of oduduwa genealogy rewriting 1903 Statement to accompany alafin of oyo as second to oduduwa throne, thereby by bringing the story of oromiyan from ife to the already benin-myth of 1903 to form a brotherly connection
Note for my ayelala post earlier.....
Aye means the name of the idol and lala means, sounding or warnings
Let our yoruba Brothers masturbate on this
Tao11 i want your neck on this post and make your answer short or i will call Etinosa or vali for you
Their heart would be beating so fast now as they click the link
macof, BabaRamota1980, LegendHero tao11
If the kinglist of benin in 1897 and 1901 excluded oromiyan in its list
Why did in 1924 Talbot included oromiyan as a ruler in the kinglist same as egharevba, if indeed the reasons the first earliest two didn't add oromiyan was because he never ruled, so why did talbot add him still
Because as far as i can see 1914 had passed so probably it was altered to include oromiyan for ethnic favour by the benins....
We also saw that in 1903, it was eweka that was sent from ife to benin, this was the very first origin and the beginning of the distortion on benin history
The qoute.... Eweka was sent from Ife to rule benin and when he came to the city he oppressed the weak, took their wives and if any man be too strong for him he makes a truce with him
This very first quote never included oromiyan coming to benin like Tao11 always masturbate on With her love for oromiyan tales
I believe after some years before 1924, some cultural supiority qualms erupted between alafin and ooni, so there was a need for the ooni to include him in the moonlight tales of oduduwa genealogy rewriting 1903 Statement to accompany alafin of oyo as second to oduduwa throne, thereby by bringing the story of oromiyan from ife to the already benin-myth of 1903 to form a brotherly connection
Note for my ayelala post earlier.....
Aye means the name of the idol and lala means, sounding or warnings
Let our yoruba Brothers masturbate on this
Tao11 i want your neck on this post and make your answer short or i will call Etinosa or vali for you
You forget these are people who can stop their oral traditions and create a new age tale to fit an agenda against the Yoruba Why can't they reconfigure their language to do same
Soon new Bini Blogs will have "Ayé" as God on their basic Bini language vocabulary lists
Only TAO11 disagree to the fact that oduduwa came from the sky or treked from mecca or Saudi arabia to ife,and calls it a pure myth and that oduduwa came from a town oke ora not too far from ife
That same TAO11 TAO12, omolufon
Agrees that ogiso who ruled benin when there was no sun and moon on the earth existed so that her fake oromiyan story can swing in.... Lol
I will have TAO11 neck on my knees same with her coward brothers
macof, BabaRamota1980, LegendHero
Please yorubas like my post its your boy gregyboy
I wont mention any of my benin fellows, so TAO11 wont say am partial and her brothers wont start crying on her behalf
Culture › Re: . by gregyboy(m): 9:04am On Sep 07, 2020*. Modified: 9:21am On Sep 07, 2020
TAO11: (1)Keep living in ignorance and delusions! But I promise to school you as always:
(a) A.F.C. Ryder’s 1965 hypothesis which you’ve attached here have been thoroughly debunked by subsequent archaeological finds which weren’t available at the time of his 1965 publication.
(b) Also, his unfamiliarity with certain information such as the significance of Oba Eweka’s morning ritual to Ife while facing the rising sun at dawn also contributed to his confusion and misinterpretation.
One such historian and scholar of African History who have contributed at some great depth to the disastrous refutation of his hypothesis is Robin Horton in his “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment”. Robin Horton writes in relation to this subject as follows:
“Curiously, Ryder, in pursuing his argument, does so in full awareness of a fact which one might have expected to moderate his enthusiasm for it. Here, I refer to the ritual in which the Oba of Benin addresses prayers to his forefathers at Ife through an eastward facing window at dawn, thus making an identification (albeit a symbolic one) between Ife and the east.* Far from sounding a note of caution in the face of this fact, he regards it as yet further evidence that the original home of the Eweka dynasty was not Ife but some more easterly or north-easterly center. His reasoning seem to be that, since the symbolism of dawn and east is alien to Ife or indeed Yoruba religious life, the ritual must represent a relatively recent grafting of the idea of Ife as dynastic home, on to a more ancient practice directed to the real dynastic home in the east or north-east.
In fact, as further information now makes plain, Ryder’s interpretation of this ritual is misguided. To start with, if we turn to Dahomey, on the opposite margin of our region, we find much the same identification. Thus Maupoil, in his classic account of Dahomean religion, tells once more of a strong association of Ife with dawn and the east. He adds that although in this area the association is one that actually does correspond with geographical reality, in the minds of the people it is not so much a summary of geographical observation as a highly appropriate piece of symbolism. For Dahomeans, dawn and the east are in this context first and foremost symbols of certain admired attributes of Ife.* Again, several scholars have noticed, there is an epithet widely current in our region which praises the city as: “Ife, creator of the world, whence come the dawn”.* Far from being something isolated and alien, then, this symbolic association of Ife with dawn and the east is something highly characteristic of the region.
Had Ryder known of this background to the Oba’s dawn prayers, he would surely have drawn somewhat different conclusions ... And had he taken this into account, he would surely have been less enthusiastic about his “look anywhere but west” approach.
Further information has also cast doubt on the iconographic arguments with which Ryder buttresses his case. Thus we now have several examples of the Maltese-cross symbols on terra-cotta materials excavated at Ife.* And the presence of this symbol in the city’s archaeological deposits vitiates the argument [with which Ryder buttresses his case], ... Again, we now have several examples of the “cat’s-whisker” facial mark on terra-cotta heads excavated at “classical” Ife sites. And the presence of this mark vitiates yet another argument.* ... Oddly, he himself acknowledges in a footnote the existence of one “cat’s whisker” head excavated at Ife. But rather than allow it cast doubt on his argument, he treats it as the exception that proves the rule. With discovery of several such pieces, however, such special pleading, already dubious, becomes totally unacceptable.
Nor are the Maltese cross and the “cat’s-whisker” the only Bini motifs for which Ife counterparts have been established over the past few years. On the contrary, recent excavations at Ife have revealed a whole series of motifs previously thought to be peculiar to Benin.*
Along with the new iconographic findings, we have also acquired an impressive series of dates. Application of carbon-14 and thermoluminescience [sic] techniques to excavated materials has enabled us to assign approximate absolute dates to several major Ife settlement levels and to the terra-cotta and brass works associated with them. Dates for terra-cotta pieces range from c. A.D. 1000 onward; whilst dates for brass pieces range from c. A.D. 1275 to c. A.D. 1440. Application of these techniques to materials from Owo and Benin has also enabled us to assign dates to some of the ”classical” terra-cotta and brass-work associated with these cities. Significantly, the Owo and Benin date-series begin slightly later than their Ife counterparts. One particularly interesting Benin date is for a brass piece previously assessed by Fagg and Dark as early on the ground of its Ife-type naturalism. Thermoluminescence tests give it a date of c. AD. 1420 — just what it should be on the premises adopted by these authors.*
Taken together, the new iconographic and dating discoveries would seem to have swung the balance of evidence back in favour of the consensual thesis of a “classical” political and artistic tradition which originated in Ife and subsequently spread to Benin.”
~ Robin Horton, “Ancient Ife: A Reassessment”, Journal of the Historical Society of Nigeria, Vol. 9, No. 4 (June 1979), pp. 85-87. . . . (2) On the overall, the decisive evidence which conclusively demolishes Ryder’s hypothesis (and other hypotheses like his) is the archaeological find of a bronze figure of the then Ooni of Ife which was excavated from the palace of Benin Kingdom and dated to c. A.D. 1300.
I have elaborated significantly on this particular find in my foregoing comment, as to how it conclusively establishes the early imperial domination of Benin Kingdom by the sacred and ancient Kingdom of Ife.
See the following link for my detailed discussion on this archaeological find:
TAO11: Yes, the “Ogiso” exist for the same evidence why “Oranmiyan”, “Eweka”, Ewuare”, et al. exist — that is, corpus of oral traditional accounts affirming their existence.
Beause I have debunked your joke to the extent that they all acknowledge you as a slowpoke. Even your own Edo people do acknowledge you as a slowpoke on the Ife-Benin connection.
Let me tag one Yoruba (@babtoundey) and one Edo (@Atigba), and one Igbo (@Mraphel) to demonstrate how all Southern-Nigerian representatives have you’ve acknowledged you as a slowpoke on the Ife-Benin connection.
Except that no body on Nairaland thinks you’re mentally stable.
I have challenged you to mention one person on Nairaland who believes you’re mentally stable. And unsurprisingly, you couldn’t find anyone.
Stop signing, your nickname at the end of every little comment you make.
No, the title of the Oba of Benin which you posted here did not say he is “Adimula” or “Adimila[sic]”.
Rather, your screenshot wrote that he is the “Ovbi Adimila [sic]” — that is, “the son of the Adimla [sic]”, but not the “Adimula” himself.
So, your oral traditions admit that Benin Kings have a progenitor whose title is “Adimila [sic].
So, to know how to properly spell/pronounce it (and what it really means), then you (the King’s salve) must ask me (the progenitor of your Kings) because the word itself is my title even according to your own traditions.
When you approach the Yoruba side, we use the tittle for the Ooni of Ife. We call the Ooni by this title: “Adimula” among several other praise.
Notice that as predicted by your own traditions, the Yorubas do NOT describe the Ooni as “the son of the Adimula”.
No, instead the Ooni is “the Adimula” himself.
Ooni-risa, Adimula, Olofin Aye! ... “Oba n Ki O”!
Now that, the “Adimula” has been translated for you earlier, can you now translate what “Adimila” or “Adimila” means in Edo language.
E go begin Dey Luku-Luku.
What difference would it make if he came on the 31th of December 1899??
Stop signing your nickname at the end of every comment.
Moreover, it appears that it was Oba Eweka 11 (and his ancestors l) that were the sacrificial slave to Oranmiyan going by written account of H.L. Ward-Price when he met Oba Eweka 11.
Oba Eweka 11 informed Ward-Price that every morning at dawn, he (Oba Eweka 11) must pay certain obeisance to the Ooni of Ife.
Moreover, there is no motive for Oba Eweka 11 to fabricate a lie that ridiculed him like this, especially when we know that there was no political context at the time.
The Western Region (which you often cling to) wasn’t founded until in the year 1939. Oba Eweka 11 died in the year 1933. So, come up with another story.
I have disgraced you repeatedly (even on your own threads) on the Benin-Ife connection. You always run away.
The embedded images below show a late 1200/early 1300 bronze cast of the then Ooni of Ife. This bronze cast was excavated from the palace of Benin kingdom.
Q: How did scholars come to conclusion that this bronze cast represents the then Ooni of Ife??
A: They noticed that the regalia [i.e. (1)the textile covering the lower body; (2)the two long bigger beaded necklaces running from around the shoulder down towards the knees; (3)the annulus-shaped neck pieces sitting quite atop the collarbone; (4)the one piece of necklace (made of small spherical beads) sitting quite atop the annulus-shaped pieces; (5)the many intricately designed pieces of beaded necklaces covering the upper body — including the chest and the abdomen; and most importantly, the two beaded pieces of regalia sitting right on the chest among other unique commonalities] is exactly the same regalia found on the different bronze casts of the Ooni of Ife found in Ife itself.
See the embedded images below for two of those bronze casts recovered from Ife itself and then compare:
Moreover, scholars realize that none of the bronze casts of the Obas of Benin ever uses the same regalia. And no other bronze cast anywhere else does.
In your reply to this I know you will as usual bring up the distraction of how the crowns are different while completely ignoring the unique regalia which is not found anywhere else except in Ife.
The ready-made refutation to that is that just as Benin kingdom does not have only one type of crowns for its kings; Ife also (as well as any kingdom for that matter) have different variety of crowns for its king.
The embedded image below is an example of a crown from Ife which is likewise tall and which is likewise without the signature round & vertical front piece.
I could have sworn that I’ve seen you write else where that the Yorubas marginalize the Edos because of our superiority.
Yes, you did write that many times about Awolowo, for example. You noted that your Obas slave for Awolowo hoping to get some favour.
Except that a myth is a story which is obviously inherently naturally improbable.
As such, Oranmiyan establishing the Oba dynasty in Benin according to your Benin vast body of oral tradition is not a myth.
Whether Benin used to be ruled by some rukers called Ogiso prior to Oba is unquestionably grounded in your own oral tradition, in Yoruba oral tradition, and in Igbo oral tradition, among other accounts all over southern Nigeria.
What is obviously naturally improbable is that they dropped from the sky.
This claim is not supported by any evidence whatsoever — whether oral account or written account.
Moreover, it is false because it refuted by the logical fact that the word Oba does not have meaning that has to do with monarch in the Edo language.
Its meaning in relation to monarchy is found only in the Yoruba language.
The syllabic components are “o” and “ba”, where: “ba” is the Yoruba word which translates simply as: “to reign”, etc., and “o” describes the pronoun who performs the action.
“Oba” as a Yoruba word thus literally means: “the one who reigns”.
I dare you to translate “Oba” in Edo language by breaking it down into its syllabic components.
Oba simply has no meaning in Edo language because it is an alien word recently introduced into your lexicon around the year 1200CE.
There is no evidence any where to support or suggest this dumb idea as I have already demonstrated above. Eweka 11 in 1933, Wester Nigeria was founded in 1939.
Yet Eweka11 informed Ward-Price a European tourist that he (Eweka11) must every morning at dawn pay obeisance to the Ooni of Ife.
No “Ogie” means “King”. And there are royalties from Benin that are not called “Ogie”, e.g. “Orodje”.
You just try out several jokes on Nairaland to see how far you can go with it. Thank God for me on Nairaland to check your delusions.
Europeans have been in Lagos before the beginning of the present kingship dynasty of ‘Lagos Island’.
The Lagos dynasty never used a non-Yoruba name as its royal title. The historical royal titles of the Obas that have ruled Lagos include: “Oloriogun”, “Ologun”, “Eleko”, and presently “Olowo-Eko”.
These are Arabic words for predominantly Muslim territories regardless of whether they are Arabs or not.
TAO11 i will be leaving you now, please i beg of you stop using benin-ife fabricated history to uplift the yoruba ego to the igbos , the moment you do i will be standing beside you
This time no more warning for you and your coward brothers this time, i will have all your necks on my knees for good
This is not my official response to this the official comment is still on hold, so hold your heart tight, i would be coming for it
”The royal right of abuse seems to have survived to the last days, for Gallwey (p. 129) mentions that “the Benin people ... are treated as slaves by the king, the title of king's slave being considered an honour." ... We have seen above that for different reasons the king claimed male children, ... the mass of the people were practically slaves to the king, ....”
~ H. Ling Roth (1903), p.103.
It’s funny that your daddies even had an interesting title — “King’s Slave”.
What a slap from the Yoruba-Obas ruling over the Edos.
cc: gregyboy
The origin of Ayelala
I gues we benins, are now fully aware of the fraudulent history of oromiyan and ife attached to the benin history, my wish is to set our history in the correct path... So we can tell our children the correct history instead of giving them unending arguments, if we allow myths like that of the oromiyan tales that sprang up around early 1900 by the benins for political and cultural benefits from the yoruba people naturalized into our history am sorry but even our own children will one day regard all our history as myth all because it is not connecting to them, and we may also endup loosing them completely to the yorubas too Lets devoid every benin history from any form of mythicism to safe guard of our true identity, we are benins the oba is a full fledged ancestory benin, forget the games that they are playing with yorubas and the tales of mystical oromiyan it is a political staged myth .... In my next post i will write more on it
The symbol of ayelala is a cross this cross can be found in benin, even before the arrival of the Portuguese among the benin people and even depicted on bronze it is not a Christian cross but an indigenous cross, ayelala is a benin idol just as olokun, and ogboni, they are not new, they are only new to the yoruba people
Watch how the yorubas will start to coin the yoruba etymology of the word olokun to defend their points, but history is clear enough the cross on the olokun symbol is that of benin
Pic 1 showing the benin bronze with an hanging cross on his neck
Pic 2, an ayelala shrine in benin
Note : after benin were ayelala is mostly worship the next is ondo and ekiti state were benin descendants can also be found unlike the other parts of yoruba
Aye means the name of the God, lala means loud
Putting this two together it gives aye-sounding message
Ayellala is used to curse who so ever has stolen, lied, and people that do evi, l no evil doer can step in the shrine of ayelala or even even a wtch..... They will freeze
TAO11: Dullard said he tricked me. No, you can’t. A slave can’t possibly trick his master.
You simply admitted that the word “Ogun” has no meaning from the Edo language.
Fraud!
Only one request will expose you as a fraud. Here we go.
Break down the word “Ogun” into its syllabic component and then explain how the supposed Edo meaning of each syllable leads you to the fraudulent meaning you’ve just come up with as an after the fact justification.
I know now at this point you will begin to dey luku-luku.
Thank you for the myth. But my question is not about because myths are borrowed all around from prominent groups around.
My challenge to you again is to break the word “Ogun” into its syllabic component and then tell us the meaning of each and how they both lead to the whole.
Where did you get this super-story from??
Moreover, Ewuare’s life and name came down from oral traditional Benin accounts as a Benin king.
Similarly, Ogun’s life and name came down from oral traditional Yoruba account as an Ife king.
And according to contemporary historical estimation, King Ogun lived some four centuries prior to you Ewuare.l who is his descendant.
Let’s pretend you know what you’re talking about. My dullard slave will not kill me oo.
Let’s pretend you weren’t soaked in hot tears as you typed this.
I know you actually cried your eyes out when you read about how “ogun” has a broken-down meaning in Yoruba, but not in Edo.
I will therefore post it here too so your tears can flow really hot again. . Here you go: . . “(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?
A: Absolutely no! grin I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.
(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?
A: Absolutely yes! smiley The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”.
“Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.
The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action.
An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) — where “kpuro” is the verb: “lie”.
“Ògún” then, as has just been demonstrated, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the one who evens”, “the one who stabilizes”, etc.
This meaning, moreover, is in perfect harmony with Ogun’s cosmogonical/liturgical attribute as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to (and in preparation for) human habitation.” . . Having said that, I am waiting in the meantime for you to give the broken-down syllable-for-syllable translation of the word “Ogun” from the Edo language.
I know that’s not possible because the word itself not intelligible in the Edo language. The word and the deity who bears the name were imposed on your daddies by their Yoruba masters from Ife.
O- to, gun= strength
To strengthen....
So csn you stop claiming our idols we loaned thd yorubas
Lemme add ayelala to it
I gues we benins, are now fully aware of the fraudulent history of oromiyan and ife attached to the benin history, my wish is to set our history in the correct path... So we can tell our children the correct history instead of giving them unending arguments, if we allow myths like that of the oromiyan tales that sprang up around early 1900 by the benins for political and cultural benefits from the yoruba people naturalized into our history am sorry but even our own children will one day regard all our history as myth all because it is not connecting to them, and we may also endup loosing them completely to the yorubas too Lets devoid every benin history from any form of mythicism to safe guard of our true identity, we are benins the oba is a full fledged ancestory benin, forget the games that they are playing with yorubas and the tales of mystical oromiyan it is a political staged myth .... In my next post i will write more on it
The symbol of ayelala is a cross this cross can be found in benin, even before the arrival of the Portuguese among the benin people and even depicted on bronze it is not a Christian cross but an indigenous cross, ayelala is a benin idol just as olokun, and ogboni, they are not new, they are only new to the yoruba people
Watch how the yorubas will start to coin the yoruba etymology of the word olokun to defend their points, but history is clear enough the cross on the olokun symbol is that of benin
Pic 1 showing the benin bronze with an hanging cross on his neck
Pic 2, an ayelala shrine in benin
Note : after benin were ayelala is mostly worship the next is ondo and ekiti state were benin descendants can also be found unlike the other parts of yoruba
Aye means the name of the God, lala means loud
Putting this two together it gives aye-sounding message
Ayellala is used to curse who so ever has stolen, lied, and people that do evi, l no evil doer can step in the shrine of ayelala or even even a wtch..... They will freeze
TAO11: The kinglist is of Benin not of Ife. Why would a kinglist even feature the name of a palace among the kings on the list?
Oranmiyan did not rule Benin as Oba. His son was the first Oba — according to extant Yoruba account and according to extant Benin accounts.
Again, Oranmiyan did not rule Benin as Oba according to extant Yoruba accounts and extant Benin accounts.
Lol. Nobody on your Facebook list actually has the name actually — “Adimula”
Highlight anyone on your Facebook list who has the name: “AdimULa”.
I will send you $200 for fun if you can highlight any name on your screenshots which matches the name here. Good luck!
Moreover, “Adimula” is not a personal name, you dullard. It is a royal title just like “Ooni-riisa”.
You won’t find Facebook names such as “Adimula” (hardly possible), just as you won’t find Facebook names such as “Omo n’Oba n’Edo”, etc.
Everything really has to be broken down for a dullard.
If it has no relationship with Yoruba, then tell us its meaning in Edo language. Break it down for us.
Lol......did ogiso even exist in the first place in benin... Lol
You walker of mythology.......
If you nitice no benin person dey follow any yoruba argue benin-ife myth again because i don open their eyes......
The more i tell the truth the better for my edo brother to learn faster
It is adimila not adimula... Mugu
Oronmiyan never came to benin before 1900 upward, oromiyan only came to benin after 1914 It was oba eweka11 who ruled in 1914 that brought him to benin to use him as sacrafrical slave... Mugu
Oromiyan my foot bring any European document from 1475 to 1897 stating benin ife connection
Mugu.... Wen u b
Yoruba cannot use benin history to uplift their dead ego
If we benins would allow oromiyan myrg then we would also allow the nri myth of creating the benin dynasty.....
Summary ogiso never ruled, ogiso were myths of heavenly benin gods they are called sky royals
The rulers of benin since inception were OBAs and were never once called ogisos
When oba eweka11 invited yorubas to destroy their history by stretching his hands to their friendship for favors overtime dey soin became comfortable with this benin-yoruba friendship and Yoruba monarchy started adding to their tiles oba to promote their status, historically
Ogie =means royalty, any royalty from benin are called ogie
The oba of Lagos in ancient would be ogie eko, meaning the royalty of Lagos, only the king of benin bears oba, the others of his children bears ogie meaning royalty
Your Oba (a Yoruba man) simply used your daddies to serve and please Yoruba deities as their food.
Remember the Oba of Benin consider you Edos (whom he rules over) as his slaves. I will soon bring you this account as recorded by the Europeans who visited Benin.
First of all, your screenshot appears to you to contradict those pre-1897 statements only because you’re an Edo illiterate who can’t possibly understand whatever is plainly written in front of him. The same reason why you attach screenshots that rubbish you.
Secondly, I already provided the references to the book where you will find the statements. I know now you will blame me for your poverty.
Or why are you afraid to make use of those references? And if you’re too dull to know how to use references, then get yourself an Edo slave to do that for you.
Anyways, here is a YouTube reading of the same book I cited. And luckily for your poor miserable self, the references I cited are all read out here.
Listen and enjoy how your Awolowo/Johnson straw will be crushed starting from time-stamp 4:41
You present me gregboy a video.... Lol a video full of myth repeated by a suppose black yoruba descendants, he repeated myth upon myth
One of the myth is ife is the centre of the whole were all humans sprang from including the whitemen,
2, he presented a benin picture in a Yoruba history video
Note : don't get things mixed up the alafin requoted what he heard the ife people saying, that all humans sprang from them, he never said his own ancestors came from there too, he only said all humans which we know is a mythical tales
TAO11 what do you take me for a myth believer
Those oyo who made those quotes to Europeans and even Samuel's j, were simply repeating what the ife priest had told them, not necessarily because its true, they were just giving a report speech back to visitors who inquird about ife.......
If throughly they did believe in it, why ife why was ife attacked during the yoruba civil war and why did ife raise arms against his children
Tao11 walk away from myth desist from it completely
Samuel Johnson's is the father of ancient yorubas and awolowo is the present father of the yoruba people, they united alk yorubas into oduduwa genealogy
Samuel johson who witnessed the yoruba war, after he tried stopping it, with no avail he decided to write a book to unite all yorubas and according all of them to one ancestors
As it stood it was only oyo in the past that were aware of the ife claims on the origin of the whole world the others were unaware of this prove me wrong
TAO11: The EUrOPEaN guy putting “Ogun” as a King I guess is because “Ogun” is an English man from England.
So, the EUrOPEaN man seeks to colonize Ife with the name of Mr Ogun — the English Prince
You’ve just put yourself into another trouble by exposing the secret-flogging you’re currently receiving on the other thread.
Folks, here is the link to a thread where I am currently messing up @gregyboy because of his unrepentant attempt to steal Yoruba identities.
He admitted that Ogun has absolutely no meaning in Edo language yet he is still hard-gripped by insecurities to the point of not admitting that his daddies are worshipping Yoruba deities.
In the comment at this link, I demonstrated that Ogun is a Yoruba deity by examining the Yoruba traditional accounts (in relation to the Benin traditional accounts) about Ogun.
I also explored the linguistic angle by providing the literal meaning of the word Ogun, of course in the Yoruba language.
@gregyboy was severely disgraced on that thread that I myself began feeling pity for him.
Cheers!
And i tricked you, you fell for it mugu....
Ogun mean strength, valour in benin
According to the benin myth ogun is the son of osanubua who constantly go to war with the angel of deaths, he was later born a king in benin and was name ewuare.....
Immidelately ewuare was born the ancestors identified him as the son of osanubua, and after his ancesction he was renamed ewuare as the tradition requires to
So TAO11 i know you forged your etymology out of the moon i was waiting for you to do so you floped like a baby, your story was different from your etymology, i was laffing throughout me and my friends... Lol funny lady
Benin-ife conspiracy I have done my research, on benin-ife controversy which emerged in 1914 only three people knows this truth on nairaland ghostwon who first pointed it out to me, he is benin by tribe and had read quite enough on benin historical books before he finally came to understand it was made up, then followed by me who after ghostwon pointed it out so i decided to go on my personal research too, And i found the truth, lastly TAO11 a Yoruba lady who was so pissed up about we benins bragging on ruling her state lagos in ancient times and decided to read benin documents to get proves to justify that ife had really giving a king to benin but to her own surprise she also found out the controversy was made up too..... angry funny but true Before you come here and attack make sure you have done your research on benin-ife history atleast on both history on yorubas and benin both on full scale
Note: i will make a full detailed thread presenting the evidence when i gather enough for a standard research thread, and scholars on both history are free to attack my points, for it is not a matter of tribalism is a more of the truth
My findings
1).it is probably the itsekiri who called the benin the name ile binu unlike what the controversy made us believe i used probably, because it is a research work i carried out myself , from my findings the Portuguese had first come in contact with the itsekiri at the shores who told them their overlord were angry set of people and had called the edo people Ile binu land of vexation which the Portuguese called bini
2) the first mention of benin to yoruba history was samuel johson an oyo man who was the first yoruba writter who had written the history of yoruba in 1897 he had wrote benin was a direct son of oduduwa oromiyan which he mentioned was the last born who happend to be a warrior and had fought all his life with people from other African country and northern Nigeria, and later he established oyo, he never mentioned oromiyan venturing to benin or conquering benin according to him every oduduwa son left to find his own kingdom The question is why did Samuel johson include benin as Yoruba at early times, even when benin at those very times never had once identified its monarchy or the entire people as Yoruba samuel johnson as we know was present during the yoruba war which the British later put a stop to, he even made peace with the yoruba elite before the war began but the war started anyway, so he had wrote extensively on the war , he also wrote on benin influence in the war and how benin supplied guns to aid the various yorubas who fought themselves and also how benin military had to protect ekiti its vassal from oyo which benin came victorious, benin really didnt partake in the war apart fron selling weapons to the yorubas who foght themselves they only came in the war to aid ekiti her vassal which wss under the benin empire, so samuel johnson knew well about benins he also knew they weren't yorubas either, but included as oduduwa son either to promote is own book to the western countries who was fully aware about the then benin empire , samuel johson book history of yorubas has been faulted too by various yorubas because he was too oyo centric in his writings and also wrote on mythicism, The second person who linked benin to yoruba was oba eweka11, you wonder why he used is name sake for the conspiracy and excluded edo people as Yorubas but only linked the mornachy Oba eweka 11 was a very diplomatic king who had ascended the throne at 1914, he tried to reconnect the empire after the fall while the other kings like onni of ife alafin of oyo were already on their throne making progress with the britsh, oba eweka got to ascend his father throne in the year 1914, he tried to connect the monarchy with yoruba people probably for ethnic benefits, he also made press statements to the British too on how the ooni was is father and even went to the ooni of palace and willingly partcipate in some Yoruba rituals, all this was done to attach the monarchy to yoruba, for ethnic gains due to the situation of benin at that very time he needed to do all that as a wise king, but those statements were for diplomacy and not historical facts, like what we were made to believe but over the years the controversy has been kept going for cultural and political benefits by our elite
3) ogiso was a myth told by the benins royal to make their stool Divine like they attributed it to a sky god who came to rule men but ogiso never really existed but rather what the benin really had was oba and ogiso tales were myth it was also told to make the benin look old
4) ekaladeran to ife was invented by oba Erediawa the original history of ekaladeran which was recorded by a British ethnographer at late 1800 noted ekaladeran was a banished prince who fought the benin army but it was never mentioned he went to ife or uhe but settled at ughoton, ogiemen he fought for the throne was ogiemen(king of sea) and not ogieamien intepreted as (its ogie we have in benin and not oba), as misinterpreted by scholars
5. Scholars has also noted the vast distinction of benin ife art and argued and also disagree on its origin from ife
6) the benin royalty dont wprship any deity in the palace the oba is a deity himself and bigger than the others if truly he was from ife, he must have allowed the worship of ifa, sango, ogun and the others in the palace
7) till 1914, there was no historical evidence from the benin people connecting it to ife written by Europeans or even the benin people, all inventions started after 1914
cool the kinglist taken by Europeans in late 1800 wasnt having oromiyan as a king or even tales of oduduwa in benin untill the early last century You csn read up benin kinglist
TAO11: You would be taken serious only when you name just one person (Edo or otherwise) on Nairaland who thinks you’re mentally fit.
In summary: The Benin Obas betrayed their Edo slave-subjects just because these Obas are desperate to lick the Ooni’s boots.
Hmmm Interesting one coming from a dullard and slave.
By the way: one of your Obas’ praise title is “Adimula” — a noble Yoruba phrase for a noble Yoruba ruler.
It means: “One who brings inevitable success to others if they align with him”.
Also: Oranmiyan didn’t manage to be installed as Oba even though that was the original plan of the majority of the Edo elders.
He only managed to set the stage for a strong monarchy (i.e. Oba) after putting a final end to Ogiso monarchy. The lack of cooperation from some of the Elders was sufficient to dispirit his original plan to reign officially as Oba.
He left and his son then became the first Oba of Benin years later. This is according to both Yoruba and Benin extant traditional accounts.
Why then did you expect to see his name on the earliest Benin king-list? More confusion crept into the Benin list only later in the course of time.
In conclusion, the following are some threads you created (using both your @gregyboy and @Edeyoung monikers) where I roasted you on the Ife-Benin connection.
I made you flee with your insecure propagandas from your own threads. Wonderful! Since there is no point duplicating effort on that, so here you go:
If you need answers to more of your problems, then dial my telephone number below But for now, bye-bye, my slave!
Lol, cunny lady..... Fellow yorubas should ask him if there was any mention of oromiyan or ife by those authors who wrote the benin kinglist those list were collected as far back as 1897 few months after the benin war, the other was collected 1901 Ife or oromiyan was never mentioned in the articles that follow the kinglist then so when did oromiyan story began in benin.... After 1914 In a bid of edos to get political and cultural favours
I went to facebook to quickly do a search on the word adimila as presented by TAO11 the fraustrated lady
On the search i saw no edo, or yoruba bearing that names only Mozambique, and on the ebs radio when the oba of benin praise names are called adimila is not there too
Tho the name could be the oba praise name but it has no relationship with yorubas at anyform
Tao11 i want your head on my plate, so i can offer to my benin gods, they like the bloods of yorubas like the way they always love it in the past
My stance still remain strong ife was a religious centre to yoruba people, and not an ancestoral home those Refrence you gave me were made and fabricated by you, if they weren't made up, like you would say, why does my screenshot go against it, if it valid, samuel johnson was the pioneers behind this mixup and awolowo
Please summit links to those references you gave towards the ijebu and oyo, lets rechecked them to together,
Something is fish.... Summit both refrences, direct links, and screenshot of those pages you took the Refrence from
Culture › Re: . by gregyboy(m): 9:58am On Sep 06, 2020*. Modified: 10:35am On Sep 06, 2020
Continuation
All yorubas are coward, using benin history to uplift their dead history, we used yorubas as slaves in the past thats why people like Tao11 would rather commit suicde than to accept ogiso dynasty was a benin myth, there was never an oromiyan coming to benin that shit of a story started after 1914 when oba eweka11, made some diplomatic statements towards the onni and alafin for ethnic and political favour for edos, this statement forever altered our history
First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.
But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive — from same article — at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.
All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.
To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.
Really!?
Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:
I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol
I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!
You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has now final granted you permission to wear clothes.
First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.
HERE you were found saying, and I quote, that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.
My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all.
But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.
Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shred of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on that.
Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.
For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:
(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?
A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.
And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.
(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?
A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”.
Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.
And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.
(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?
A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.
(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?
A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”.
“Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.
The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action.
An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) — where “kpuro” is the verb: “lie”.
“Ògún” then, as has just been demonstrated, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the one who evens”, “the one who stabilizes”, etc..
This meaning, moreover, is in perfect harmony with Ogun’s cosmogonical/liturgical attribute as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to (and in preparation for) human habitation.
In sum: The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:
(1) Per Yoruba accounts (in relation to Benin accounts) the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.
(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language.
However, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the cosmogonical/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the name.
Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.
But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.
A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided traditions emanating originally from the Binis.
The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.
Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group — the Yoruba group.
In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as Edo.”*
* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.
In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.
Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.
None of these royal titles was ever used in any of the Yoruba kingdoms often irrationally claimed by the Binis today, with the exception of course of the Ode-Itsekiri Yoruba kingdom.
cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980, macof
Benin-ife conspiracy I have done my research, on benin-ife controversy which emerged in 1914 only three people knows this truth on nairaland ghostwon who first pointed it out to me, he is benin by tribe and had read quite enough on benin historical books before he finally came to understand it was made up, then followed by me who after ghostwon pointed it out so i decided to go on my personal research too, And i found the truth, lastly TAO11 a Yoruba lady who was so pissed up about we benins bragging on ruling her state lagos in ancient times and decided to read benin documents to get proves to justify that ife had really giving a king to benin but to her own surprise she also found out the controversy was made up too..... angry funny but true Before you come here and attack make sure you have done your research on benin-ife history atleast on both history on yorubas and benin both on full scale
Note: i will make a full detailed thread presenting the evidence when i gather enough for a standard research thread, and scholars on both history are free to attack my points, for it is not a matter of tribalism is a more of the truth
My findings
1).it is probably the itsekiri who called the benin the name ile binu unlike what the controversy made us believe i used probably, because it is a research work i carried out myself , from my findings the Portuguese had first come in contact with the itsekiri at the shores who told them their overlord were angry set of people and had called the edo people Ile binu land of vexation which the Portuguese called bini
2) the first mention of benin to yoruba history was samuel johson an oyo man who was the first yoruba writter who had written the history of yoruba in 1897 he had wrote benin was a direct son of oduduwa oromiyan which he mentioned was the last born who happend to be a warrior and had fought all his life with people from other African country and northern Nigeria, and later he established oyo, he never mentioned oromiyan venturing to benin or conquering benin according to him every oduduwa son left to find his own kingdom The question is why did Samuel johson include benin as Yoruba at early times, even when benin at those very times never had once identified its monarchy or the entire people as Yoruba samuel johnson as we know was present during the yoruba war which the British later put a stop to, he even made peace with the yoruba elite before the war began but the war started anyway, so he had wrote extensively on the war , he also wrote on benin influence in the war and how benin supplied guns to aid the various yorubas who fought themselves and also how benin military had to protect ekiti its vassal from oyo which benin came victorious, benin really didnt partake in the war apart fron selling weapons to the yorubas who foght themselves they only came in the war to aid ekiti her vassal which wss under the benin empire, so samuel johnson knew well about benins he also knew they weren't yorubas either, but included as oduduwa son either to promote is own book to the western countries who was fully aware about the then benin empire , samuel johson book history of yorubas has been faulted too by various yorubas because he was too oyo centric in his writings and also wrote on mythicism, The second person who linked benin to yoruba was oba eweka11, you wonder why he used is name sake for the conspiracy and excluded edo people as Yorubas but only linked the mornachy Oba eweka 11 was a very diplomatic king who had ascended the throne at 1914, he tried to reconnect the empire after the fall while the other kings like onni of ife alafin of oyo were already on their throne making progress with the britsh, oba eweka got to ascend his father throne in the year 1914, he tried to connect the monarchy with yoruba people probably for ethnic benefits, he also made press statements to the British too on how the ooni was is father and even went to the ooni of palace and willingly partcipate in some Yoruba rituals, all this was done to attach the monarchy to yoruba, for ethnic gains due to the situation of benin at that very time he needed to do all that as a wise king, but those statements were for diplomacy and not historical facts, like what we were made to believe but over the years the controversy has been kept going for cultural and political benefits by our elite
3) ogiso was a myth told by the benins royal to make their stool Divine like they attributed it to a sky god who came to rule men but ogiso never really existed but rather what the benin really had was oba and ogiso tales were myth it was also told to make the benin look old
4) ekaladeran to ife was invented by oba Erediawa the original history of ekaladeran which was recorded by a British ethnographer at late 1800 noted ekaladeran was a banished prince who fought the benin army but it was never mentioned he went to ife or uhe but settled at ughoton, ogiemen he fought for the throne was ogiemen(king of sea) and not ogieamien intepreted as (its ogie we have in benin and not oba), as misinterpreted by scholars
5. Scholars has also noted the vast distinction of benin ife art and argued and also disagree on its origin from ife
6) the benin royalty dont wprship any deity in the palace the oba is a deity himself and bigger than the others if truly he was from ife, he must have allowed the worship of ifa, sango, ogun and the others in the palace
7) till 1914, there was no historical evidence from the benin people connecting it to ife written by Europeans or even the benin people, all inventions started after 1914
cool the kinglist taken by Europeans in late 1800 wasnt having oromiyan as a king or even tales of oduduwa in benin untill the early last century You csn read up benin kinglist
First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.
But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive -- from same article – at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.
All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.
To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.
Really!?
Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:
I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol
I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!
You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has final granted you permission to wear clothes.
First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.
HERE, you were found saying and I quote that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.
My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all. But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority complex to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.
Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shadow of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on the specific argument with which I established that.
Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant comments.
For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:
(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?
A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.
And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.
(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?
A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”. Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.
And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.
(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?
A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.
(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?
A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”. “Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.
The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action. An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) -- where “kpuro” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “lie”.
“Ògún”, as has just been demonstrated then, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the evener”, etc..
This is moreover is in perfect harmony with his primordial/liturgical attribute in Yoruba and Dahomean religions as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to humans’ arrival.
In sum: The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:
(1) Per Yoruba accounts and Benin accounts, the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.
(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language. Yet, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the primordial/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the same name.
Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.
But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.
A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided information emanating originally from the Binis.
The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.
Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group – the Yoruba group.
In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as though.”*
* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.
In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.
Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.
This was never the case with any of the Yoruba kingdoms often claimed by the Binis – with the exception again of the Ode-Itsekiri kingdom.
First of all, I know for sure you didn’t read all of the thirty-five-page article because you’ve made it clear more than once on many threads that you are dead-scared of reading.
But guess what, you didn’t even have to read all the pages in order to arrive -- from same article – at the conclusion now reached by historians’ that Obalufon-Ogbgbodirin was one and the same personage as Ogun.
All you need do was apply yourself to “TABLE II” of your attachment which I have dumbed down for you to the simplest level of understanding possible.
To avoid being repetitive, refer [url=]HERE[/url] again to my detailed comment on this. Refer specifically to my fourth (4th) and fifth (5th) blocks of comments there for the relevant points.
Really!?
Let me adopt this same line of your 'argument' to see if it works in refuting your ‘argument’ here. Here you go:
I have argued on the Ife king-list before now. I even checked Wikipedia a few years back and Ogun was included on the list …. Lol
I guess it worked in debunking your ‘argument’, right? Nonsense and Obaseki!
You are one joke of a dullard who thinks he knows better than his teacher. I hope the Oba of Benin has final granted you permission to wear clothes.
First of all, notice that you’ve now had a shift of position from when you first started off some days ago.
HERE, you were found saying and I quote that: “Ogun nor fit kill benin person na we get am”; but now you obviously have dumped that position.
My job of schooling you seems to be yielding some fruit after all. But despite now abandoning your initial position, you still appear to be hard-gripped by insecurity and inferiority complex to the extent of adopting the idea of we’re going down together.
Having said that, I have demonstrated without a shadow of doubt that Ogun originated from the Yorubas. Refer [url=]HERE[/url] for a gentle reminder on the specific argument with which I established that.
Refer specifically to my fifteenth (15th) and seventeenth (17th) blocks of comments there for the relevant comments.
For the umpteenth time, the following are the decisive questions (and their respective answers) which you must genuinely ponder in order to arrive at a logical and definite conclusion regarding the indigenous origin of Ogun:
(1) Q: Is there any traditional Benin account about a Bini whose name is Ogun?
A: Yes, there is probably one such account to the effect that Ewuare I’s pre-coronation name was “Ogun”.
And Ewuare I is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1400s.
(2) Q: Is there any traditional Yoruba account about a Yoruba whose name is Ogun?
A: Yes there is certainly more than one such account about different Yoruba personages by the name “Ogun”. Refer specifically to my fifth (5th) block of comment found at [url=]THIS LINK[/url] for one of such accounts.
And the Ogun of this specific account is noted by contemporary historical estimation to have flourished circa the mid/late-1000s.
(3) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Edo language?
A: Absolutely no! I’m glad you’ve also conceded this more than once on this same thread.
(4) Q: Does the word “ogun” (when broken down into its component parts) literally have a meaning from the Yoruba language?
A: Absolutely yes! The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”. “Gún” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “even”, “level”, “balance”, “stabilize”, etc.
The preceding “ò” describes the subject who performs the “gún” action. An everyday example of this is seen in the Yoruba word “òkpùró” which literally means “one who lies” (i.e. “liar”) -- where “kpuro” is the Yoruba equivalent of the verb: “lie”.
“Ògún”, as has just been demonstrated then, is purely a Yoruba word which literally means “the evener”, etc..
This is moreover is in perfect harmony with his primordial/liturgical attribute in Yoruba and Dahomean religions as the one who clears pathways, as well as the one who set the earth into a habitable mode prior to humans’ arrival.
In sum: The deity Ogun is indigenous to the Yorubas and not the Binis for (at least) two valid reasons:
(1) Per Yoruba accounts and Benin accounts, the original bearer(s) of the name “Ogun” among the Yorubas flourished at least four (4) centuries prior to the emergence of a supposed bearer of the same name among the Binis.
(2) The word “ogun” is literally meaningless in the Edo language. Yet, not only is it literally meaningful in the Yoruba language, its meaning is also consistent with the primordial/liturgical attribute of the deity who bears the same name.
Per the bolded, I am glad you’ve lately began to sound less reckless. This shows that my effort at educating you is not wasted after all.
But to respond quickly to your remark on “ventures into yorubas”, it appears you refer here to your usual ignorant remark to the effect that Benin ruled certain Yoruba territories.
A quick refutation to this lies in the fact that all the accounts which discuss this are based on one-sided information emanating originally from the Binis.
The only exception where such accounts is unambiguously two-sided is among the Itsekiri-Yoruba subgroup who in the late-1400s accepted the Benin prince Iginuwa to be their king.
Among the reasons cited by historians for this smooth transition is that the Itsekiri stock and the royal party from Benin considered each other as belonging to the same ethno-lingustic group – the Yoruba group.
In relation to this, the Isoko-born Professor Obaro Ikime noted that “The Benin court may have been bilingual for some time after the coming of the Ife prince (that is Oranmiyan) and … therefore the royal party from Benin may have spoken Yoruba as well as though.”*
* Obaro Ikime: “The Peoples and Kingdoms of the Delta Province,” in Ikime, ed.: Groundwork of Nigerian History, 89 – 108.
In actual fact, the eyewitness written testimony of the visiting French Father Columbin of Nantes states that the lingua-franca of Benin kingdom (in the 1600s when he visited) was the language of the Lukumi (i.e. Yoruba) people.
Moreover, the royal title in foreign kingdoms whose affairs are truly ruled by the Benin kingdom is always one of the following: “Ogie”, “Ogiame”, “Enogie”, “Onojie”, “Ovie”, “Orodje”, etc.
This was never the case with any of the Yoruba kingdoms often claimed by the Binis – with the exception again of the Ode-Itsekiri kingdom.
TAO11: (1) Yes, the other modern kinglist that came after Roupell’s list contain twelve audio Obas.
I never said anywhere that Roupell’s list is incorrect. Rather, I have repeated the opposite.
(2) I never said Roupell’s list is fake. That must your hallucination kicking in.
I simply said Ewuare is not on the list, and that Ewuare appeared on later lists as an audio Oba (just like the other eleven audio Oba). /s
(3) Similarly, my point about the list being from oral account is that Roupell collected it in 1897 when almost all of the supposed Obas are not in existence.
So. my point is that the list is (rather than based on Eyewitness written account) is based on oral account.
And I never discredited oral account, instead I was doing the opposite of educating on the importance of oral accounts; while also demonstrating your double-standard of accepting oral accounts (knowingly or unknowingly) only when it is helps your propaganda.
(4) The Europeans who visited Bini in the late-1400/early-1500 never compiled a single kinglist.
The first kinglist to be complied of Benin Ibas was by Roupell in 1897.
And his list shows only 23 Obas from Eweka1 to Ovonramwen.
Whereas, the modern list now show 35 Obas from Eweka1 to Ovoranmwen.
Where did these modern lists manufacture the 12 audio Obas from??
(5) Eweka 1 and Oranmiyan exist because several oral traditional accounts of both the Binis and the Yorubas confirm their existence.
Oral account is a valid source of historical information, so Eweka and his father exist. Or don’t you agree because of no EyEwitNess EUrOPEaN Writing on Eweka??
You cleared that part that Roupell's list wasnt fake.......but you still remained blind to see ewuare on the list, that one problem you also need to solve yourself too
Eweka existed good,
So did ogiso exist..... Because eweka displaced ogiso, so did they exist
TAO11: I have helped you to post links of your threads where I disgraced you and from where you have fled till date.
I basically chase you away from your own threads using facts, evidence, proof, and reason.
So you have to stop gaslighting with your pretence that you had any point on your threads that I haven’t refuted to pieces.
I guess I brought out the slave in you.
No, Ogun will kee you because Ogun is a Yoruba deity and you are my slave.
Ogun is yoruba deitu and am still waiting for the proves instead you bring a mythical ife kinglist Showing a European guy putting ogun as a king...
Mugu before you claim something prove it first, that's is the reason i came to this thread in the first place to tell everyone you lied, ife-benin never happened
Prove what you say before claiming it,then when you're saying it, i would be at rest
OmoOlofin: You are obviously a retard ignoramus. I have already demolished you AwoLowo straw and Johnson straw
I cited you four different early references to Yoruba groups including Ijebu and Oyo acknowledging the imperial primacy of Ife/Oduduwa.
It is your now your duty to provide evidence of where Samuel Johnson invented Oduduwa as well as evidence for every claim you make.
He who makes a claim have the burden of proving it. And what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. So, help yourself.
Were is the refrence from ijebu.... I remember seeing properly
TAO11: And I flogged you on all the threads (despite your misrepresentation of what your screenshots said) with the same question which goes again as follows:
What does Olokun, Ogboni and Ayelala mean in Edo language??
Note : this is what i said when TAO11 is looking for an escape from an argument, he starts to bore you with irrelevant talks....
TAO11: And I flogged you on all the threads (despite your misrepresentation of what your screenshots said) with the same question which goes again as follows:
What does Olokun, Ogboni and Ayelala mean in Edo language??
Talkative, talk talk..... Who cares to read should visit my profile.......
U dey mad, you wan use me talk ogun dey kill you Na talk go finsh you, Talkative
TAO11: (1) In relation to your bogus claims here: What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.
(2) In relation to Ife-Benin connection, refer to the link below of one of your propaganda threads from where you’ve fled for many months now never to look back till date:
(3) In relation to your screenshot, Roupell clearly wrote “Ebowani”. There is no way this is “Ewuare” by any stretch of the imagination.
The fact that “Ebowani” appears on the same line with “Ewuare” in the other list is not proof that “Ebowani” is “Ewuare”.
Just as “Ezoti” in Roupell’s list is not one and the same as “Orobieu” or “Egbeka” because they appear on the same line.
Or just as “Olua” is not one and the same person as ”Uwafa-Ekene”/ “Uwaifokun” because they appear on the same line.
And so forth.
Moreover, the presence of the name of any supposedly pre-1800 Oba on that Roupell’s list is not evidence of the existence of such Oba.
Roupell’s list was compiled in 1897, so whatever name you see on that list of a supposedly pre-1800 Oba is again nothing but oral account.
So you’re back again to oral account. There is actually no escaping for from it.
It is a valid source of historical information, but which is to to be adopted with caution — just any any source of historical information actually.
You have gone blinded by me,...... Lol i will drown you.. More that you cant see again
It is already showing... Lol, nor be me b gregyboy lol.... You can't even see the screenshot again... The hate towards me have blinded you.... To this extent
After you argued that the kinglist list was altered after Roupell's kinglist, so it is not a true list, and i told you forget the other people's kinglist lets use Roupell's list, you came again that ewaure was never there on Roupell's list, so it is a fake kinglist, i took my time again to point it out to you, but this time you became completely blinded by hate towards me
Now youre saying since the king list is from oral accounts then it is also not correct.
Lol, mugu... Skip the rest kings before esigie and above since the Europeans came to benin during esigies rein so there is an eye witness is not TAO11
Lol, so eweka and oromiyan you're killing yourself self on is now a myth since they didnt exist, mugu
OmoOlofin: One of your daddies already exposed you. He admitted unashamedly that it was the Yorubas who introduced the Binis to all the deities they worship.
Refer to time stamp 1:26 of the video below for his confession:
Yes, “Ayelala” is a Yoruba word for a Yoruba deity, and it simply literally means “the world is enormous”. Cry and die if you want to, my insecure slave.
I knew what Ayelala is used for since Yorubas obviously introduced it to your daddies. So spare me the story of what the Yorubas through your daddies to use it for. I knew that already.
What I’m asking of you is simply what the word “Ayelala” means in Edo language, if it is an indigenous Edo deity as you’ve falsely and insecurely claimed.
The word “Ayelala” has no meaning in Edo language. Why? Because it is an indigenous Yoruba deity that was introduced to the Edos by their Yoruba masters.
No body invents a system and then proceed to name it in another alien language that he himself does not understand. I guess only the Edos do that, according to dumb gregyboy.
Lol, you brought a video for me, lol like i have not brought screenshot from yorubas scholars admitting ogboni is benin and olokun, even your brother on my post admitted to it too, that no Yoruba is dragging ayelala with benins.... TAO11 but you still objected them... And now you're doing the same thing... Or because this one is video it is different case abi... A benin man admiting to fact, some idols were buried from the yorubas.... You now expect me to say yes to it while you say no to mine.... Wise taolesB
TAO11 dont be too desperate it kills
Anyway like i have always maintained some idols Were taken from yorubas like orumila, sango and ifa, this was a result of benin occupation into yoruba lands and not necessarily oromiyan folklore, get into your dump skull am not a tribalistic like you i keep telling you
Our indigenous idols is ayelala, ogboni, olokun
I wouldn't say ogun because am yet to prove it same as you too
OmoOlofin: First of all, at no point did I tell you that Oranmiyan managed to be installed as Oba. I dare you to point out where I stated that Oranmiyan was installed as Oba, you huge dunce.
Instead, I stated the precise opposite which was that his son became the first Oba, and that was because the pocket of resistance to Oranmiyan from some of the elders were sufficient enough to dispirit the original plan that he should be formally installed as Oba.
Extant Yoruba and Benin accounts recognize his son (Eweka 1) as the first Oba of Benin.
Secondly, I you lied as usual when you noted that the list included Ewuare 1. That’s a huge Edo lie. Ewuare 1 never feature on the kinglist of Roupell which happens to be the first Benin kinglist.
So, my question still stands tall: Where did the extra twelve audio Oba of Benin (including Ewuare) in today’s kinglists pop out from??
Important Information: Learn to type in English language going forward.
The issues is not oromiyan coming to benin or both party agreeing to it, if they put fact and myth for you to choose you will whole heartedly embrace myth,that's my point your lover of myth
The issue is did oromiyan come to benin at all..? Was there ogiso oromiyan displace, and eweka formed the first Oba... Lol
How true is the ife and benin tales, if you belive ogiso was displaced by invited oromiyan prove it with evidence dating from 15c to 1897
Do you believe ogiso ruled or even if they existed in benin?
And benin that benin was later replaced by oba from ife
If you are ready to address any of my arguments then wake me up.
When I put forward an argument, what you must do is to engage such argument by raising specific contentions regarding it.
What you do instead as a dummy is to repeat the same rants that you had raised prior to my argument which refutes them.
You never point out what contentions you see with the latest argument. I didn’t expect too much from my slave though.
Lastly, if you must a claim about some other threads then do so by posting a link of the said thread, and I will reply you with a screenshot/link of the specific page where you gazed-out and got disgraced by my humble self.
And for the particular link which which you’ve unashamedly posted here, the attached screenshot shows your final comment to me where I disgraced you and magnified your ignorance.
You gazed-out only on page 2. Here is a link to the page where you were disgraced:
I literally disgrace and chase you away using facts from the propaganda threads that you yourself created.
I dare you to continue posting links to your propaganda threads, and I will continue to magnify your shame by highlighting where you fled after being disgraced. I double dare you.
You got whipped on every single one of your propaganda threads. Keep them coming, there is more than one of them. Nothing should be holding you back, right?
Name me one person on the whole of Nairaland who thinks you are mentally fit. There is absolutely none. I ‘rubbished’ you to that point where you’re you regarded by virtually everyone as trash.
Your brother @ghostwon literally said that you lacked the ability to use your brain. It is my pleasure to have reduced you to a Nairaland rag.
And your brothers said your writeups are always meaningless and still lengthy... Lol
Yea ghostwon said i was not thinking deeper because i support the benin-ife myth, but your brothers have always seen you as a foilish lady
OmoOlofin: Thank for admitting that “Ayelala” has absolutely no meaning in Edo language.
Moreover, one of your fathers in seen in that video admitting point blank that the Yoruba gave you Binis deities to worship.
“Aye” does not mean “God”, and “Lala” does not mean “loud”. It simply has no meaning in your language. I know this makes you so sad.
“Aye” broken to its syllabic component is: “Aye-li-ala”.
“Ayé” is a general Yoruba word which simply means “the world”.
“Lí” is the third person present continuous Yoruba equivalent of “have”/“has”.
“Ala” is a regional Yoruba word (popular among the Ilajes and the Ikales) meaning “enormity”.
“Ayel’ala” is a Yoruba word which therefore literally means: “The world is enormous”.
I really hope you won’t eventual become suicidal this way you’re going.
cc: AreaFada2, macof.
Can see how useless and heart blinded you have become TAO11, you need sleep, just in a bid to satisfy your ego and disprove benin, everything to you must be yoruba..... Dummy You see the useless meaning you put up there go and clean it,
Ayelala is an idol, that the benins use in swearing and also warn people, if someone steals and you call ayelala they will come to the neighborhood were they stole they will march round the location giving warnings with their bells, just to tell the person to return it, after some days you fail to return it, the thiefs stomach becomes large filled with water and endless pain
So TAO11 think again.... Have i turned you to the shadow of yourself or have i now brought the real you out
Run from me.... Before you allow a benin man cosumes you with filled hate
OmoOlofin: No you're a dummy. Refer to the attached for your refutation.
cc: LegendHero, BabaRamota1980
Hurry up and begin a search for someone else. Your Awolowo and Samuel Johnson Straws have been shattered before your very eyes.
Tinubu?? ?? ??
Lol, mumu you only brought accounts of oyo people, go check my previous statement, i said only oyo people and some part of western yorubas recognized ife as an idolatary center, as i quoted religious centre..... And the great samuel johson brought the idol oduduwa into life with his pen
Can we see account of the various yorubas admitting to this facts too before 1897 because i know the ijebu in contact with the whitemen so as itsekiris so why post only oyo
My stance is samuel johson was the guy who united all yorubas into one canopy during the yorubas civil war, and before then ife was recognize as a religious centre to only the oyo yorubas and not the entire yorubas, Awolowo who happens to be a fan of samuel johson for his political aspirations renforced Samuel's Johnson desires untill yorubas were fully united, the ooni was seen before now as a chief priest, awolowo uplifted him from chief priest to a king and demoted alafin who the British made Chairman of kings council
My stance is still well standing with no disproval
Samuel j, brought both ife and oduduwa into life... Disprove
Culture › A Question For Yorubas by gregyboy(op): 10:21am On Sep 07, 2020
so that her fake oromiyan story can swing in.... Lol
The word “ogun” breaks down into its two syllables, viz. “ò” and “gún”. 