₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
I missed this comment earlier.

(1) I have crossed out the first part of your comment because I have, on this thread today, done more than a debunking (if there is one word) of your revision of no connection.

On this same thread, I have repeatedly cited different testimonies and practices by some of your Obas which acknowledges early connection.

I have cited in relation to Eweka II when he told Ward-Price of hjs daily sacred devotion in connection who he called the "Oghene of Ife."

I have also also cited Oba Erediauwa II's May 2004 "The Benin-Ife Connection" wherein he noted the Oghene of the time of Oromiyan and Eweka was the then Ooni of Ife; and that Ife is known as Uhe.

I have also attached a video where the reigning Oba Ewuare II is shown and heard to have said that "Oranmiyan from Ife ... (became) the first Oba of Benin"

May be I should add Oba Akenzua now (so that there is no gap in that genealogical line) where he attended what was termed "Conference of Yoruba Chiefs", in Oyo in the year 1937 with some other senior Yoruba Obas in attendance.

The introduction to the report of the conference notes:

"The chiefs were seated in horse-shoe formation with the Oni of Ife, as head lf the town from which all Yoruba have traditionally sprung, at the centre, and the Alafin of Oyo at the western and the Oba of Benin at the eastern end, an arrangement which gave general satisfaction."

Reference:
Conference of Yoruba Chiefs, Oyo, 31 March to 1 April 1937, mimeographed, n.d., p.1.

See attached below, a picture from that same day showing Oba Akenzua II and his brothers all seating to right and left sides of their dad, the Ooni.

Also important is the Oduduwa ritual festival which the Binis still enact till date in honour of the paternal ancestors of the Obas of Benin.

See 2nd attachment below, and stop see the reigning and past Obas of Benin idiots.

(2) samuk said Orun Oba Ado was excavated, and I (and my fellow Yoruba brothers have more reasonable evidence than pictures to) know that samuk is right on that specific statement.

Do you really insist that samuk is a fatuous liar?

Guy you need serious slap and beating lol

So you agreed you misssd my mentioned, the mentioned i missed from gou, you resulted in raining insult on me, a fool indeed thats what i will call you

You need to slaps one for attributing oba ewuares end of year festival to Oduduwa festival
It is a festival we celebrate with new yams and end of raining season

3, our oba had be going on the history wrongly they have been mistaken another town thier ancestor had connection with as ife
Egharevba was the one who bought the ife story up just to merge edo history with yoruba as we were in the former western region


Send the book as pdf to me i wanna read the adam knobler book myself

TAO11:
(1) You're so ignorant!

Adam Knobler's work which I cited is not an article. Gosh! It's a book for God's sake. I doubt if you know what the difference there is between either.

And I won't post you any link to the book, except a link to Amazon where you may pay the price for your copy of his copyrighted intellectual no work.




https://www.amazon.com/Mythology-Diplomacy-Exploration-Expansion-Indigenous/dp/9004324895


And no, the identification of the Ogané in the work I referenced is accurate NOT MERELY because it was written in 2016 --- I think you're being deliberately ignorant now just to save face.

Rather, it is accurate because it describes the contemporary consensus reached today by scholars who have studied the subject.

This contrasts with all the different variety of opinions that have been put forward in the past, including Ryder1965's and Thornton1988's among many, many others.

For the umpteenth time, see how Adam Knobler puts it in the attachment below showing clearly that this is not his personal conclusion or some other individual conclusion.


(2) First of all: Contrary to your claim here, I did not assume that "scholars" have now come to that identification.

Rather, I was merely echoing the statement of a world-renowned scholar, Adam Knobler --- a statement which can still be seen in the attachment below.

It clearly didn't say "few scholars", neither did it say "some scholars", nor did it say "many" or "most" scholars. It simply puts it as "scholars" --- a direct expression of consensus and unanimity.

In the light of this, your request for the names of all present-day scholars (whom Adam Knobler alludes to) is not only an disgracefuly absurd face-saving attempt, it also makes no difference to the fact on ground.

And the fact on ground remains that scholars now in contemporary times identify the Ogané with the Ooni of Ife, as seen in the words of Adam knobler below.

(3) (i) No one mentioned that the the bronze artefacts depict people "carrying".

(ii) No one mentioned that these specific bronze artefacts are Ife's.

(iii) And lastly no one mentioned that these bronze artefacts has anything to do with the helmets.

You obviously need to urgently learn how to read!

Anyways, the following are my precise words:

"Historians have examined the bronze figures featuring small crosses and have found interestingly that all the figures have cat whisker tribal markings at the corner of their mouth --- a specific kind of facial marking that has been shown by scholars "to depict messengers from Ife."."

And the statement that "Benin figures" with "cat whisker facial marks at the corner of the mouth ... depict messengers from Ife" can be found, for example, in S. P. Blier's "Art in Ife, Birthplace of the Yoruba", African Arts, Vol. 45 (4), Winter 2012, p.77.

Sew the attachment below for one of such Benin bronze artefact. works

In summary, we see the following here:

i. Certain Benin bronzes bear small crosses.

ii. All Benin cross bearing bronzes have cat-whiskers markings.

iii. Benin bronzes with cat-whiskers markings (with cross or no cross) represent messengers from Ife.

I leave it to you to draw the obvious conclusion of of whether or not that there is a Ife-Benin connection through the subject of crosses, which you brought up.

The foregoing is aside from the fact that there is an important historical documentation which describes how [i]Oba Eweka II[/I] makes use of one such small brass cross in a daily sacred devotion which he connects with the "Oghene of Ife" (as he 'named' the Ooni to Ward-Price) and other Yoruba kings.

Yet, the Portuguese document talks of small brass cross which the Ogané dispatches to Benin (through messengers) as part of the official emblems of office for an incoming Oba of Benin.

In the light of all these, can it be clearer whom this Ogané is?

May be it can, because scholars have now specifically and unanimously identified the Ogané as the Ooni of Ife.

That wss not an ife messanger ooh guy i go shout ooh

That sculpture is a 15century sculpture made by the benins at the time the Portuguese had made contact with the benins, the Portuguese never recorded account of benin and ife interactions

The Portuguese were told by the benins about oghene to be a powerful priest and this sculpture was made in 15c were the Portuguese never experienced any ife - benin interactions
The Portuguese noted kingdom benins had interactions with never at one tims theg mentioned uhe or ife in thief texf


Again afc ryder did wrote is works on document from Portuguese account and had discovered were the Oghene they benins mentioned could be located if anything was wrong in ryders work definitely no his location

Oga download pages of the book and send here
Accept thesame book would bite you if you post it lol like it did in ryders article


Atleast lets see three or four scholars who had agreed to adam knobler write up i never said you should post all scholars


Again how did Adam himself get into the conclusion that ife was oghene if its on that sculpture then is entire work was wrong, if we are to follow the Oduduwa myth benin only had connections with ife at 10c


Again why would benin call ooni oghene in the first place is ooni that hard to prononce, get it benin dont only reffered to ife as uhe strangers outside benin are calked uhe so oghene n uhe meant a different stranger from ife

TAO11:
I have long known known you to be the same dummy yesterday, today, and forever; but ghostwon also confirmed it yesterday when he wrote the following:

"You have problems using your brain. And you have an incredibly low self esteem."

Regarding your absurd request for a listing of the names of all historians who have studied the subject in present time (whom you noted that Adam Knobler should have listed instead of writing "scholars" ) refer to my comment here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/17#88133778

ghostwon is just full of himself i try to maintain my cool, he said stupid things i didnt even want to drag with him, because i will be dealing with two fools you and him and that will be too much for me to handle,i decided not to respond to him afterward

Guy post screenshot of the works i guess you can even download the pages and send,
Exvept you are hiding something


If you aint send the pages for get it

TAO11:
(1) You're so ignorant!

Adam Knobler's work which I cited is not an article. Gosh! It's a book for God's sake. I doubt if you know what the difference there is between either.

And I won't post you any link to the book, except a link to Amazon where you may pay the price for your copy of his copyrighted intellectual work.

https://www.amazon.com/Mythology-Diplomacy-Exploration-Expansion-Indigenous/dp/9004324895


And no, the identification of the Ogané in the work I referenced is accurate NOT MERELY because it was written in 2016 --- I think you're being deliberately ignorant now just to save face.

Rather, it is accurate because it describes the contemporary consensus reached today by scholars who have studied the subject.

This contrasts with all the different variety of opinions that have been put forward in the past, including Ryder1965's and Thornton1988's among many, many others.

For the umpteenth time, see how Adam Knobler puts it in the attachment below showing clearly that this is not his personal conclusion or some other individual conclusion.


(2) First of all: Contrary to your claim here, I did not assume that "scholars" have now come to that identification.

Rather, I was merely echoing the statement of a world-renowned scholar, Adam Knobler --- a statement which can still be seen in the attachment below.

It clearly didn't say "few scholars", neither did it say "some scholars", nor did it say "many" or "most" scholars. It simply puts it as "scholars" --- a direct expression of consensus and unanimity.

In the light of this, your request for the names of all present-day scholars (whom Adam Knobler alludes to) is not only an disgracefuly absurd face-saving attempt, it also makes no difference to the fact on ground.

And the fact on ground remains that scholars now in contemporary times identify the Ogané with the Ooni of Ife, as seen in the words of Adam knobler below.

(3) (i) No one mentioned that the the bronze artefacts depict people "carrying".

(ii) No one mentioned that these specific bronze artefacts are Ife's.

(iii) And lastly no one mentioned that these bronze artefacts has anything to do with the helmets.

You obviously need to urgently learn how to read!

Anyways, the following are my precise words:

"Historians have examined the bronze figures featuring small crosses and have found interestingly that all the figures have cat whisker tribal markings at the corner of their mouth --- a specific kind of facial marking that has been shown by scholars "to depict messengers from Ife."."

And the statement that "Benin figures" with "cat whisker facial marks at the corner of the mouth ... depict messengers from Ife" can be found, for example, in S. P. Blier's "Art in Ife, Birthplace of the Yoruba", African Arts, Vol. 45 (4), Winter 2012, p.77.

Sew the attachment below for one of such Benin bronze artefact. works

In summary, we see the following here:

i. Certain Benin bronzes bear small crosses.

ii. All Benin cross bearing bronzes have cat-whiskers markings.

iii. Benin bronzes with cat-whiskers markings (with cross or no cross) represent messengers from Ife.

I leave it to you to draw the obvious conclusion of of whether or not that there is a Ife-Benin connection through the subject of crosses, which you brought up.

The foregoing is aside from the fact that there is an important historical documentation which describes how [i]Oba Eweka II[/I] makes use of one such small brass cross in a daily sacred devotion which he connects with the "Oghene of Ife" (as he 'named' the Ooni to Ward-Price) and other Yoruba kings.

Yet, the Portuguese document talks of small brass cross which the Ogané dispatches to Benin (through messengers) as part of the official emblems of office for an incoming Oba of Benin.

In the light of all these, can it be clearer whom this Ogané is?

May be it can, because scholars have now specifically and unanimously identified the Ogané as the Ooni of Ife.

I told you to prove your point, by providing the book or article on hos work instead you came up
An amazon book, if yoy indeed want to prove your point, since you once read the book and you paid for it, then make screenshot of the pages

It wont hurt if you do it just do prove the point


For the record dummy i happened to just came across this mention now


Wtf that sculpture was not any messanger to ife benin never have any connections with any fucking ife

Get it go your fucking skul

TAO11:
This is the second day you've been parroting this lie despite the fact thet I've repeatedly disgraced you to provide evidence.

It must have become evident to all and sundry at this point that you lie for a living.

Oga tell me


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TAO11:
It was Egharevba who gave the listing of Benin Obas in his work which has become the palace's official listing till date. So tell me again about he's wrong.

Oh I know why, because he was uneconomical with the truth, and because he did part of his primary school in Ondo.


Anyways, Egharevba's work is described by world-renowned historians of Benin history as a pioneering classic.

It is therefore only in your wildest imagination that his work is "wrong".

I have addressed your citation of Ryder1965 on the identification of the Ogane, and I have shown that he himself admitted the uncertainty of his own conclusion.

And it is understandably so, because he and others at the time (including Thornton1988 whose work you attached, and who also clearly admitted the uncertainty of his conclusion too) were writting at a time when their is no scholarly consensus on the subject.

And evidence that there wass no scholarly consensus at the time is shkwn in the same work by J. K. Thornton where he noted --- on page 352 --- that:

"Since Ryder's article a number of scholars have taken up the debate, looking for evidence and for the most part failing to come up with either decisive support for Ryder's position or a convincing demonstration against it."

In other words, the identification of the Ogane kf d'Aveiro's work was at that time an ongoing debate among ddifferent scholars.

However, in very recent times, scholars have now come to the conclusion the Ogane im d'Aveiro's account is none other than the Ooni of Ife.

Adam Knobler2016 mentioned this in his work (not as his personal conclusion, or some other individaul conclusion) but as the conclusion "now" reached by "scholars" in our present time..

Refere below again, for the umpteenth, time to see how he has put it as the conclusion NOW reached by SCHOLARS.

The name of the scholars was not writing by adam knobler that would be a poor work you are citing my friend , scholars came into conclusion "
Who were the scholars not even one name did he cite, and you had the effontary to post such poor work for me as prove

Guy go sleep

The only thing meaniful in that article to you was that phrase and it is worthless to me because it is a poor work

Untill the writer list the other scholars who had disprove is work it is invalid


Post me the link of adam knobler article lets review it

Am calling your brothers in for this one


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TAO11:
Ask any sensible Bini Nairalander the following question: (assuming there is any)

What must I do if my claims are to be taken seriously??

And they "should" (if reasonable) give you thw following reply:

You must always provide evidence, proof, or reason.


Now, the onus on me is to provide that, and which is what I've consistently been doing.

I however have the latitude to decide the form which my evidence, proof, and reason will take as long as it is sufficiently verifiable.

The incompetence of the interlocutor at the other end is not my business.

Nigga your grammer ehnn i nor understand you ooh u win use am intimidate me abi you won use win the argument oga calm down if you made a sentence and your vocabularies are not understood then you didnt communicate or pass any message so take it low


Why would you post a link to what you already criticize

Guy go sit down nairaland vocalbularist

samuk:
So the one gregyboy has been producing to show that the Benin/Ife story is a modern day fabricated history that was not previously known in early Benin history is not enough.

He has disproved and pointed out all the flaws in your sources and you still want me to produce more.

There are nothing to produce because there were nothing written/documented in Benin history about the Benin/Ife connections for the first 2 to 3 hundred years of European contact with Benin.

Do you want me to produce what is not there.

The Benin/Ife story is a lie stated here on nairaland by your Yoruba brother whose link I have already provided.

You guys are further propagating the lie using questionable sources.

Your Yoruba brother said that as of 2014 there were two physical sites in Ife bearing the inscriptions of Male and female Orun Oba Ado.

The guy is a clown he post links when it favours him unfortunately he posted a link that even disagree to whatever he was saying he was eager to prove a point,

Thesame link he criticize now was the same link he used to counter me

Funny fellow tao11

TAO11:
Is this the best contenion you Binis can put forward??

First of all no body said Orun Oba Edo.

What it's called is Orun Oba Ado.

And if you need evidence to prove that Benin[/b]used to be known as [b]Ado by the Binis themselves, then refer to the link below:


Regarding your contention on the Ife-Benin connection:

I am still waiting on you to explain why Oduduwa festival continues to be an important Benin ritual festival till date.

Also let's listen to what the currently reigning Oba Ewuare II has to say on whether or not there is an Ife connection:

What is oduduwa festival


Did you see me write

Orun oba edo

Youre fooling yourself bro go sleep

I had wrote orun oba ado and i mentioned the time benin was called edo and the time they changed from ogiso to oba, ife never encountered benin as edo or ado but Igodomigodo

To the Yoruba Brothers is this the best guy can bring to defend the yorubas

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TAO11:
(1) Yes, I have read those articles since years ago. That's exactly how I know about the gradual trend of conclusions regarding the identification of the Ogane from the 1960s up till date.

You obviously just stumpled upon reading articles (thanks to the challenge from me), that's precisely why you think that solitary probabilistic conclusions from 35 to 50 years ago remains the same even till date among scholars.

No, there have since been a shift from the old conflicting conclusions. Scholars have now reached a consensus in present time.

In case you don't understand what is meant by consensus. It means that scholars have now stopped disagreeing with each other and have come to submit with one voice on an issue.

And the work I quoted is not an article. It is a book of history wherein the historian Adam Knobler did not merely put forward his opinion on the identification, but rather submits what "scholars" (plural) have now come to conclude --- that is, contemporary historical consensus.

See the work again below in case you missed something from how Adam Knobler puts it.

(2) No, the Oghene does not carry cross. No historian said that.

But yes, the Oghene (aka "Ooni of Ife" according to [i]Oba Eweka II[/I], according to [i]Oba Eradiauwa II[/I], et al.) --- in olden times --- dispatches a small brass cross, a brass helmet, among other things; as official emblems of office to the incoming Oba of Benin.

And evidence of the small brass crosses have survived both in bronze artefacts and and in history:

Historians have examined the bronze figures featuring small crosses and have found interestingly that all the figures have cat whisker tribal markings at the corner of their mouth --- a specific kind of facial marking that has been shown by scholars "to depict messengers from Ife."

Moreover, the actual use of the brass cross also featured even up till the reign of Oba Eweka II --- who makes use of the brass cross in a daily sacred devotion which he connects to the "Oghene of Ife" and other Yoruba kings.

Furthermore, evidence of the brass helmet mentioned in the early Portuguese account have also survived in artwork and in history.

The helmets constitute the corpus of Benin artefacts known today as Oduduwa helmet, and this helmets is still re-enacted till date during the important Benin ritual festival known as Oduduwa festival.


(3) Yes, historians have long, over time, debated each other on a variety of topics. Differences which they later came to reach a consensus on.

In fact, Leo Fronenius once concluded that Ile-Ife was, in fact, first inhabited by the ancient Greeks of the lost city of Atalantis.

He reached this conclusion because the Ife Art to him "eloquent of a symmetry, a vitality, a delicacy, of form directly reminiscent of ancient Greece".

However, scholars have long dismissed such care-free conclusions following a careful examination of the artefacts which shows them to be very reflective of an indigenois tradition.

In fact, further corroborating evidence has since come to light showing that the tradition existed in many other places throughout Yorubaland, e.g. Ijebu-Ode, Obo-Aiyegunle, Owo, etc.


Just to give you something to ponder on, some accounts of Benin history notes that the Benin kingdom had nothing to do with the Edos, but was esrablished by the son of a certain European.

Let me know why you will disagree with this account!


(5) Even though you yourself have admitted your cluelessness on your own assertion, I will like help you by affirming definitively that such view just doesn't exist anywhere in contemporary scholarship.

Lol

Post the link of the adam knobler article you so love this guy because is work was 2016 lol

Post me the link of the articles


And again who are te the scholars you assume came to a consensus please post they are various works with the links to thier articles attached thanks


3. The artefact of the ife art work carrying crosses with helment and whiskers should also be posted

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samuk:
This is his WhatsApp no. +234 813 672 2162

You can also find and reach him on Facebook.

You meam lancelot imaseun number

Ctorch:
The Ooni of Ife, Adeyeye Ogunwusi, on 10 February 2016 said Benin Kingdom in Edo State remained part of the expansive Yoruba people, a pronouncement that may spark fresh rivalry and altercation between people of the two ancient kingdoms.


Yoruba Kingdoms - Benin and Ife
In 1975 the Republic of Dahomey changed its name to the Republic of Benin, after the Bight of Benin ["Where few come out but many go in”], which in turn was named after the Benin Empire, a powerful entity that existed from 1440 to 1897 in what is today Nigeria. "Benin" is a Portuguese corruption of "Ubinu," the administrative center of the Empire, which is today called Benin City, capital of Edo State. Dahomey's rechristening in 1975 caused no end of confusion ever since, so to clarify things: Benin City (the historical Benin Empire) is approximately 250 miles east of Porto Novo, capital of the present-day Republic of Benin. The two entities have no historical connection whatsoever.

The Yoruba kingdoms of Benin and Ife sprang up between the 11th and 12th centuries. The present-day Benin monarch declared his ancestry from Oranmiyan through Ekaladerhan and direct to the Ogiso dynasty. The statement made by the Ooni of Ife debunked the Oba of Benin's declaration of the ancestry of Benin Kings, insisting that Benin was one of the kingdoms founded by Oduduwa who descended from heaven to Ile-Ife with four hundred deities.

The Ooni of Ife, Adeyeye Ogunwusi, on 10 February 2016 said Benin Kingdom in Edo State remained part of the expansive Yoruba people, a pronouncement that may spark fresh rivalry and altercation between people of the two ancient kingdoms. The monarch made the comment in reaction to a statement credited to the palace of the Oba of Benin challenging the claim by the Alake of Egbaland, Adedotun Gbadebo, that the Ooni of Ife remained the pre-eminent spiritual leader in Yorubaland and environs. Oba Gbadebo said Oba Ogunwusi was number one of the five principal Obas in Yorubaland, followed by the Alaafin of Oyo, then by the Oba of Benin (in third position), the Alake of Egbaland (fourth) and the Awujale of Ijebuland (fifth). But in a swift reaction, the Esogban of Benin and Odionwere of the Kingdom, David Edebiri, rejected the ranking, saying the Ooni of Ife was a son of the Oba of Benin and that the Oba of Benin stool had no relationship with the Yoruba people.

As far as historical memory extends, the Yoruba have been the dominant group on the west bank of the Niger. Of mixed origin, they were the product of the assimilation of periodic waves of migrants who evolved a common language and culture. The Yoruba were organized in patrilineal descent groups that occupied village communities and subsisted on agriculture, but from about the eleventh century A.D., adjacent village compounds, called He, began to coalesce into a number of territorial city-states in which loyalties to the clan became subordinate to allegiance to a dynastic chieftain. This transition produced an urbanized political and social environment that was accompanied by a high level of artistic achievement, particularly in terra-cotta and ivory sculpture and in the sophisticated metal casting produced at Ife. The brass and bronze used by Yoruba artisans was a significant item of trade, made from copper, tin, and zinc imported either from North Africa or from mines in the Sahara and northern Nigeria.

The Yoruba placated a pantheon headed by an impersonal deity, Olorun, and included lesser deities, some of them formerly mortal, who performed a variety of cosmic and practical tasks. One of them, Oduduwa, was regarded as the creator of the earth and the ancestor of the Yoruba kings. According to a creation myth, Oduduwa founded the city of Ife and dispatched his sons to establish other cities, where they reigned as priest-kings and presided over cult rituals. Formal traditions of this sort have been interpreted as poetic illustrations of the historical process by which Ife's ruling dynasty extended its authority over Yorubaland. The stories were attempts to legitimize the Yoruba monarchies—after they had supplanted clan loyalties—by claiming divine origin.

Ife was the center of as many as 400 religious cults whose traditions were manipulated to political advantage by the oni (king) in the days of the kingdom's greatness. Ife also lay at the center of a trading network with the north. The oni supported his court with tolls levied on trade, tribute exacted from dependencies, and tithes due him as a religious leader. One of Ife's greatest legacies to modern Nigeria is its beautiful sculpture associated with this tradition.

The oni was chosen on a rotating basis from one of several branches of the ruling dynasty, which was composed of a clan with several thousand members. Once elected, he went into seclusion in the palace compound and was not seen again by his people. Below the oni in the state hierarchy were palace officials, town chiefs, and the rulers of outlying dependencies. The palace officials were spokesmen for the oni and the rulers of dependencies who had their own subordinate officials. All offices, even that of the oni, were elective and depended on broad support within the community. Each official was chosen from among the eligible clan members who had hereditary right to the office. Members of the royal dynasty often were assigned to govern dependencies, while the sons of palace officials assumed lesser roles as functionaries, bodyguards to the oni, and judges.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/africa/yoruba.htm

The ooni is sounding retarded benin never encountered ife in anytime in history the stody of Oduduwa was fake and fabricated, the Europeans over four hundred years of trading in benin never encountered benin and ife connections,

If you need prove i will supply you

Oduduwa story is fake stop spreading it

TAO11:
Is this the best damage control stunt and excuses you can pull??

Even I myself am feeling pity for you right now. Sorry

Anyways, to knock of your self-inflicted delusions and excuses, get the following into your thick skull:

One of your two chief excuse and damage control attempt was of Oba Ewuare I's request to be burried at Esi.

Even if this is a historical information which you can substantiate, I will love to see your ingenious explanation of how it is a detterent to the tradition of exhumed the heads of third-reign Benin Obas for burial at Orun Oba Ado

You can do this!


The second chief excuse and damage control attempt you made was of the 18th king --- Oboa Orhogbua's alleged drowning and lost corpse.

And my response to this is simply that: This statement right here is false in its entirety.

Proceed to substantiate this statement in case you think you're correct.

In fact, the closest historical information that exists is of another Benin Oba who drowned. Yet, nothing is said (in any historical record) about the unwillingness of the Benin Navy to recover his floating body.


In summary, the underlying facts which deflate and undermine your overall excuses and damage control attempts are two, viz.

(1) The location of the Oba's burial (even if outside of Benin) is in no way a detterent to the tradition of exhuming their heads for burial at Ife.

(2) This tradition is done (according to historical information) only in every third-reign.

In light of this deconstruction and debunking of your chief excuses and damge control attempt, I will love to see how you come up with a similar enumeration which will result in other than eleven third-reign heads.


In response to your side-distraction, provide me your evidence for any Ife-Yoruba tradition which states that there is a burial site for some alleged female Obas of Benin.

And if you can't provide any such evidence (and certainly you can't as such evidence exists only in yoir wild imagination), then you may wan't to consider quitting your habitual lying as a matter of urgency.

I am always here to evsntuallu burst your lies no matter how cool those lies have initially made you appear.

In conlusion:
Contrary to your wishful-imagination about Orun Oba Ado, I have in contrast cited historical information showing that the heads of third-reign Benin Obas were exhumed and taken to Orun Oba Ado site in Ife for burial.

I have also adduced corroborating archaeological evidence from excavation quest at Orun Oba Ado which not only confirmed the circular "burial pits", but also found them to be "eleven" --- a number which matches the number of third-reigns at Benin kingdom with astonishing accuracy.

See here:

As an important appendix to the foregoing, it is important to note that that I stress here that Frank Willett himself had indicated elsewhere that to disprove a local tradition of olden burial, what archaeologists look out for is the absense of burial pits.

In other words, archaeologists themselves understand that the absense of human remains is not the factor for absolute disproof, as they could have been put to other sacred use prior to modern times.

Cheers!

Shut up!!!

Be ashamed, you are still saying orun oba ado
Wtf is wrong with your brain na
The name edo was giving during the 15century
The supposed fairytale of benin meeting ife folklore had happened in the 10c, when edo was known as Igodomigodo and has not taken the title oba" the kings titled remained ogiso and not yet oba


Guy ife and benin had no connection we never meant

gomojam
DonCandido
Amujale
macof
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lx3as
Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun


ghostwon
davidnazee
samuk


Please the yoruba brothers i mentioned should helpe me beg tao11 to stop is delusion of ife and beni. Having any connections we didnt have any

Orun oba is a flat lie from hell

samuk:
Trust me alot has been done and still being done interms of research into Benin history, you are probably not aware of them.

There are people still living in their 90s in Benin City who have been researching and writing about Benin history for over 50 years.

The reason you hear about Egharebva is the Yorubas who love his stories because it supports their fabrications.

There are volumes of unpublished works.

Check out Imaseun Izoduwa, leader of Great Benin Descendants (GBD) worldwide, online.

The guy is doing alot and working with great Benin researchers and authors.

The guy and his team have made numerous trips to those tribes across west Africa that claim Benin descents, they often invite him and his team to their celebrations.

He and his team have been invited and visited Benin descendants in Ghana, Rivers State, Delta State etc. You will see find videos of some of his visits online.

He even do live broadcast on Facebook on Benin history.

You can contact him.

How do i contact him

TAO11:
I already said that because I have the article!

Do you even read what you reply to??

Igaa ogene never be ife are you that dumo or mischievous did you read any of the articles what made you believe the 2016 article was correct because its new"

The benins described oghene as one who carried cross does your ooni know what is cross

Historans even argue if those ife artwork was originally made in ife or they had bought it fron mechant or they even migrated to meet them m there


The ife art works were not made by ife they probably had bought them from mechant

samuk:
I am not sure if they are readily available online but if you are in Benin some of the old bookshops may still have them, I got my copies shipped to me many years ago but don't know where they are now.

Try googling the author online.

Thousands of years ago Benin people also lived side by side with now extinct dwarf pygmies that were less than 5 feet in height.

The same dwarf pygmies are mentioned in the evergreen Sir Victor Uwaifo's song Jorome. Ivbie-ehivineka.

We choose not to make personal research on our history we just leave it untill something comes up before the history will be told

All this research work will help us understand were we migrated from

Always try to post your findings so peoole like us can carryout our own research so that way the knowledge is not lost

TAO11:
Lol. I bet that right now you must be thinking that you've stumpled upon gold-mine.

Anyways, why do you you choose to cite works from a time when scholars have conflicting vareity of uncertain opinions on the identification of certain historical personages or places??

Why do you love to choose that over the present time when scholars have now come to a consensus regarding the identification of the same personage and place??

First it was A. F. C. Ryder's 1965 admittedly uncertain identification of the Ogane.

And now it is John K. Thornton's 1988 erroneous identification of the Ogane and Yufi which is based heavily on Ryder's.

Is there any particular reason why you've chosen to cling to some past mistakes of some scholars, even when such mistakes have been improved upon and corrected in present times by the consensus of contemporary scholarship??

I guess it's whatever makes you sleep well at night.

I have cited you for the umpteenth time an important 2016 historical work of Adam Knobler from where you can see for yourself how the consensus of modern historical scholarship have improved on the errors from the past regarding the identification of the Ogane.

In case you missed it earlier, see below again:

This was written after ryders work

TAO11:
Lol. I bet that right now you must be thinking that you've stumpled upon gold-mine.

Anyways, why do you you choose to cite works from a time when scholars have conflicting vareity of uncertain opinions on the identification of certain historical personages or places??

Why do you love to choose that over the present time when scholars have now come to a consensus regarding the identification of the same personage and place??

First it was A. F. C. Ryder's 1965 admittedly uncertain identification of the Ogane.

And now it is John K. Thornton's 1988 erroneous identification of the Ogane and Yufi which is based heavily on Ryder's.

Is there any particular reason why you've chosen to cling to some past mistakes of some scholars, even when such mistakes have been improved upon and corrected in present times by the consensus of contemporary scholarship??

I guess it's whatever makes you sleep well at night.

I have cited you for the umpteenth time an important 2016 historical work of Adam Knobler from where you can see for yourself how the consensus of modern historical scholarship have improved on the errors from the past regarding the identification of the Ogane.

In case you missed it earlier, see below again:

Lol, you keep citing egharevba works even when you know its wrong

The cited afc ryder works to prove a point even when you knew it was incorrect work
But now you coming to form saint because its hitting you hard

I notice your mentions had drooped since we began to question benin-ife relationship

Here is a new work that reevaluated ryders work

samuk:
Are you familiar with the works of Osarẹn S B Ọmọregie and The age of Iso Norho. If you are not, find yourself a copy.

Benin Uhe is the mountainous area of Edo North and Kogi state. That is the area the Benins run to for refuge when must part of the low land was flooded with water due the rains that was possibly captured in the bible during the time of Noah/the last ice age.

We need start sourcing our history out, our forefathers had done well to lay a good history for us and what could do to pay them is telling the histories properly and sourcing them out


The idiot egharevba who was finding a way to merge edo to the western region created the false history of Oduduwa

Benin in earliest time maintained izoduwa escaped to ughoton and that is what benin referred to uhe
It was after the egharevba articles that benin historian began to follow the Oduduwa trend and it lead us nowhere than lies and confusion the foreign writters also admitted that this kingdom benin had contact with lost most of thier history after they became islamized,



Please post the link of the work of the benin historian you mentioned

samuk:
You are very right, that is the reason the Yorubas always come up with provocative threads, to draw the attention of Benin and learn new things with style as the debate goes on, all the new information they learn from the Benins are then used to correct their errors in future revised versions of their fabrications.

The Ife and Oduduwa myth were created to unite all Yorubas under one spiritual umbrella the way the Sultan of Sokoto is the religious and spiritual leader of all muslims and Hausa/Fulani.

Igbo also tried the Same with their Nri story.

Whilst the Hausa/Fulani succeeded, the Yorubas and Igbos are having problems with theirs because of the presence of kings of Benin descendants in these places that will not reduce themselves or submit themselves to those they think are royal and spiritual usurpers and inferior to themselves because of their Benin royal bloods

The same reason the Oba of Lagos will not subscribe to the supremacy of the Ooni even publicly disgracing him by refusing to shake his hand.

Oba of Lagos have severally said in public that the Oba of Benin is his father.

There is also the Alafin/Ooni supremacy tussle.

So trying to include Benin to their Ife/Oduduwa project is very important to those propagating the Yoruba spiritual unification project.

It allows them to extend their reach into all former Benin empire territories and those monarchies that claim Benin ancestry.

They can use it to claim Lagos, Itsekiri and other Benin descendant monarchies true the back door.

In the east, you have the Nri spiritual project having problems because the Arochukwus will not subscribe to it and the Obi of Onitsha, a descendant of Benin will not accept the supremacy of Nri over himself.

The Obi of Onitsha considers himself the true royal blood and the most senior king in Igbo land.

The west and east spiritual unification of the people would have succeeded like the North but because of the egos of the majority tribes.

In the North, the majority Hausa people unite under the leadership of the minority Fulani whilst the Fulani adopted the Hausa language as a common language.

The latter day Hausa majority are not trying to usurp the conquest and historical achievements of the Fulani or trying to rewrite their history.

The west could have done the same by having Yoruba/Benin west with the Oba of Benin as the spiritual leader because he is the one that have the conquest and historical achievements to ascend such a position, you wouldn't have had a situation of the Oba of Lagos publicly disrespecting the Oba of Benin and on exchange the Benin would have adopted the Yoruba language as a common language.

Same way the majority Igbos could have come under the spiritual leadership of the Obi of Onitsha rather than causing confusion with the Nri project.

Foreign historians believe ife and benin never had an connection

The Oghene the edo mentioned to the Portuguese has been traced to igala and we know in benin history that edo had a connection with igala people before even before the benin - igala war a bsnin chief had gone to seek the help of thier powerful neighbors the igala to help waged a war against benin fortunately benin came out victorious,
But no fucking records on ife than mere myth
They trying to steal the Oghene as ife two foreign historians had disprove this fact


The sly tao11 would take a rest from benin-ife history soon when all the truth is out


Benin had maintained ekeladeran had ran to ughoton and not ife in the earliest first record, it was the idiot egharevba that related the benin autonomous history and that ife oduduwa when benin was still part of former western region

Please lets start telling the stories correctly its a shamed foreign writters are the ones helping us to correct this notion we made up

Ekeladeran ran to ughoton at the time benin was still very autonomous and centralized like it was before the arrival of the Portuguese, i believed before the benin chiefs got to ughoton ekeladeran had moved from ughton to somewhere unknown or probably even died the son eweka he left behind at ughoton became the first oba, this is to show the word oba is a beni world influence by the benins to the yoruba people

samuk:
I submitted in an earlier post that the reason it's difficult for the forgery and fabrications of Benin history to stand the test of time is because of the many reference points that may be unknown to the forger.

You based your calculations on the assumptions that all Obas of Benin finished their reigns, died and was buried in Benin according to customs and traditions of the land.

The list of the Obas you presented did not take into account the Obas that couldn't be buried in Benin for various reasons which included their body not being found for burial due to drowning.

Infact some of the Obas you cited as their heads being buried in Ife are in the list of Obas that couldn't have been buried in Benin let alone their heads being exhumed and taken to Ife.

If the Obas that where not or couldn't been buried in Benin for various reasons where taken into account, your calculations wouldn't add up.

What you guys always do is to learn new things from the Benin and used the new information to adjust your future fabrications to make them look authentic.

The reason some Benin people are reluctant to debate you guys is because when your errors are pointed out, you take the new revelation/information and use them to come up with reversed fabrications.

There is one small piece of information you guys have since abandoned because of what you learned from the Benin.

Orun Oba Ado fallacy initially started with two sites, one for the remains of male Obas of Benin and another for female Obas of Benin.

This was as a result of the Yorubas thinking that Benin also had female Obas.

Now you don't talk about the female site anymore.

The Orun Oba Ado is a fabrication.

Truly,

Another fabrication would stilk come up anx ot will never end we will always be the ones defending its time we tell the truth,
That oduduwa was always a myth benin never in contact with ife

TAO11:
The following shows a listing of all the reigns in Benin starting from Oranmiyan's all the way down to before Ovoranmwen's whose partial reign and imminent deposing marked the beginning of the British colonial intervention in Benin's polity.

Refer to https://www.edoworld.net/Obas.html for a verification of this listing.

1. Oronmiyan
2. Eweka I
3. Uwakhuanhen ☆
4. Ehenmihen
5. Ewedo
6. Oguola ☆
7. Edoni
8. Udagbedo
9. Ohen ☆
10. Ogbeka
11. Orobiru
12. Uwaifiokun ☆
13. Ewuare I
14. Ezoti
15. Olua ☆
16. Ozolua
17. Esegie
18. Orhogbua ☆
19. Ehengbuda
20. Ohuan
21. Ahenzae ☆
22. Akenzua
23. Akengboi
24. Akenkpaye ☆
25. Akengbodo
26. Oroghene
27. Ewuakpe ☆
28. Ozuere
29. Akenzua I
30. Eresoyen ☆
31. Akengbuda
32. Obanosa
33. Ogbebo ☆
34. Osemwende
35. Adolor
36. Ovoranmwen

(A) Starting with Oronmiyan as the reference point, I have indicated the successive "third-reigns" with a "☆" for ease of following through.

And there are obviously eleven "third-reigns" in total.

(B) If, however, one contends that Oronmiyan was not formally Oba at Benin, and that the enumeration should start with Eweka I as the reference point; then the eventual total number of "third-reigns" would still remain eleven.

(C) Even if you argue that the tradition resulted from an after-thought subsequent to when the "first" Oba Eweka I had already left the scene, the eventual total number of "third-reigns" --- starting thus with Uwakhuahen as the reference point --- would still remain eleven.


As I have since noted before now, this resulting total number of "third-reigns" (i.e. eleven )
matches precisely the total number of circular "burial pits" (i.e. "eleven" ) which Frank Willett noted that he found at Orun Oba Ado, when he conducted an archaeological excavation of the site.

Refer below for reference to Frank Willett's find:
WILLETT 2004: Chapter 1.3. cited in James W. Lankton, O. Akin Ige, & Thilo Rehren, "Early Primary Glass Production in Southern Nigeria", Journal of African Archaeology, Vol. 4 (1), 2006, pp.125-126.
See copy here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/274431270_Early_primary_glass_production_in_southern_Nigeria


gomojam
Amujale
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Opiletool
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Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon
geosegun


ghostwon
gregyboy
davidnazee
samuk

Fairytale boy... stop living in fairytale local and both foreign historians don’t agree that ife and Benin ever at one point had a connection the only connection we had with the yorubas are the ones we conquered, the prove is there for even the blind to see not the fairytale ife and Benin connections

gomojam
Amujale
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Opiletool
nisai
2fine2fast
Aphrygian
Olu317
Obalufon


Your fellow Yoruba brothers should ask you for pictures to make clarity easier let’s see it , atleast the excavation happened in the time of cameras so we get pictures from it

gomojam:
Caesar restrategized, fought back and defeated Vercingetorix, your Oba never did but beg. The difference is clear.

Of course, you won't since it deflated your ego. Your Boko analogy didn't add up. Ogedengbe came with invading army from an entirely different kingdom from Benin, not some ragtag, hit and run terrorist like Shekau. It would have been a conventional warfare if your Oba had taken the challenge but he chickened out.

Spare me your sermon and answer the questions posed to you. Your sermon could have been more useful today had it been your Benin defeated Ogedengbe and halt the incursion of Ibadan into your 'tributaries' of eastern Yoruba like you love to claim.

Wether you are part or non part of the southwest does not matter to us. We don't care.

Lol. You take actions? Like killing military men which riled the government and attracted massacre to Odi community in 1999? Like shouting 'our oil, our oil' and kidnapping foreign nationals thereby prompting them to relocate their headquarters to Lagos, Southwest? You have no business talking about sophistication oga, your people are emotionally driven. Only a barbarian put war in the first option.


We do not roll like that. Knowledge is knowing what to do, wisdom is knowing when to do it. This is one of our guiding principles. That is why we choose our battle wisely. This is the basic principle of war. We weigh the marginal benefit against marginal cost before making a choice. This is a simple economic concept your people lacked and it cost them a lot and still doing.

We are the most tolerant group in Nigeria. The most industrialized region. The most educated region. We lead in many HDIs. This is sophistication. Thank you.

No doubt ogendegbe visited benin but he was driven out by an uromj warlord sent by the oba

The oba never begged him so stop that lie

TAO11:
Yeah, technically it doesn't. I mean the former is the owner, the latter is the owned.

However, whateve you come with, don't come here with an absurd stlry of how Benin kingdom was founded by a white European man??

Lol

Provide prove that a. F. C Ryder works was full of error.


Did you even read the article or you probably read it closing your eyes, you shot yourself by giving me that article, you were so eager to prove your point so you went ahead to give me an article that was even against what you are saying

Oghene n uhe was never ooni or ife


Uhe means stranger or outsiders in edo language
And not necessarily yoruba

Benin was not given by yorubas because never even in benin language do a benin man call himself ovbie benin or even the vassal state called them benin but rather a name smilar to edo, the Portuguese outrightly gave the name benin to edo people

ghostwon:
Logics and common sense.

Comeon you got to share more than this to me

I have been wallowing in ignorance since

Pleasure your understanding send me an email if be


But we cant desregard the records that the Portuguese made documents to that there was an oghene that was sovereign over them tho the writer disagree bluntly it was ever ife...


Please you also don't need to delete your account when the truth is about unfolding

ghostwon:
You jump from one madness into an other one...

What is your own story

TAO11:
No! Lol. Just kidding.

Ife had no relationship with benin


This new findings will put you all to sleep

ghostwon:
Have you read anything which I have ever written ?
I have said everything needed to be said on this topic, several times. You never listen. I will soon deactivate my account anyway. When I say stop discussing fairytales and the next thing you do is dive deep into fairytale discussion and then you call my name to waste some more of my time ?

"we have been going on this history the wrong way"
Why I am included in the "we" is beyond me, basically the article is saying things which I have been saying.

Why am I included in the "we" ?

My comments are on nairaland, read them and don't call my name again. Thank you.

Yea i remember you saying that

But please add me up on whatsapp lets talk two heads are better than one

08155024814

Or give me yours

TAO11:
(1) The screenshot you attached is of a section of page 35, of A. F. C. Ryder's work viz. "A Reconsideration of the Ife-Benin Relationship" published in The Journal of African History, Vol. 6, No. 1 (1965), pp.25-37 --- An expert's work!

So, don't bother about any "link" I have had a copy of this work since years ago.

What you should instead bother about is to learn to always cite references, and not simply assume that any text found in electronic soft form on the WWW is authoritative.

If I hadn't already read this particular work before and knew it to be A. F. C. Ryder's, I cannot possibly have trusted its author to be an expert just because it's a written text in electronic soft form found on the WWW.

Having said that, Ryder was writting here at a time when the specific identification of the Ogane --- by historians --- was still a work in progress and not final and definitive.

This doubt is clearly admited by Ryder himself and noticeable in his own conclusion, even after a painstaking identification effort --- he said "most probably.

He himself obviously admits that his conclusion here is not final, conclusive, and definitive.

An important fact to remember is that this his probabilistic conclusion was reached in the year 1965.

Now fast forward to fifty-one years later when historians have had access to more data, their conclusion moved from individual conflicting probabilistic conclusions to a general definitive consensus on the identification of the Ogane.

And both the date and the tone of the historical work I cited match this scholarly shift and progress.

The work I cited was from 2016 and the conclusion says "... Ogane ... whom SCHOLARS NOW identified with the Yoruba ruler of Ife, in modern-day Nigeria ..."

See the attachment below for a reminder of the details and the reference.

(2) Yes, the Kingdom of the "Oghene" is "Ife" according to the "Benin people".

Let's listen to Omo N'Oba N'Edo Erediauwa II one more time in his 2004 The Benin-Ife Connectioon:

See here: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm


(3) Lol. Whether or not the Edo noun "Uhe" can also apply to a person is irrelevant here. And I think you're lying, because I've always known that apart from place, it applies to thing, namely: "v@g!n@".

But whether it applies to thing and person is irrelevant, because when applied to place, it referrs to Ife.

The evidence for this can be found in the same work of Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II already cited above.

See here: See here: https://www.edo-nation.net/erediauwa1.htm


(4) Earlier on in the course of this exchange, your excuse was that "Oghene" could mean "God" or "King".

However, you've now turned around to claim that it "Oghene" means "Priest".

Even if I pretend not to see your contradiction, and thus assume that what you meant is that "Oghene" could mean any of "God", "King", or "Priest".

I have already debunked any such excuses when I cited Eweka 1992, wherein the same Oba Erediauwa was noted to claimed that:

It was "Supreme God" himself who gave birth to the first Oba of Benin as his last born son.

[i]E. B. Eweka: Evolution of Benin Chieftancy Titles. Benin: Uniben Press, (1992) cited in Roger Blench and Matthew Spriggs: Archaeology and Language I: Theoretical and Methodological Orientations, (2004), p.314.

So, riddle me --- according to official Bini accounts --- whom the first Oba of Benin who also happens to be his father's last born son is.

This is obviously Oranmiyan.

And is father who gave birth to him as his last born son --- according to official Bini account --- is no other that the then Ooni of Ife.

It is therefore this Ooni that is being referred to above by Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II specifically with the words "Supreme God" --- not merely King or Priest.

So, your excuse falls flat on its nose.

(5) Regarding Ogane I never posted you any link. I simply attached you the same attachment below.

And the 2016 reference is I attached is obviously different, and it's reflective of the contemporary unanimous scholarly certitude, in contrast to the 1965 scholarly article you had attached which reflects the conflicting solitary probabilistic identification of the Ogane.

Cheers to your growth!

Stop beating about my friend

The chief of ughoton said he was sovereign over benin
You have already assume his works was an error please point the errors out because its an old work does not mean it has errors

Uhe is referred to as strangers and not particularly to ife alone

Oghene could be referred to as priest, god, king


The article is so very correct dont bother trying to prove anything guy

The truth now is benin never encountered ife in anytime in history the place benin assume is ife was never ife and that is what the writer was trying to prove, because our kings says it doesn't mean is all correct, a different place the benin encountered as been misplaced as ife in benin history

With this new findings we will bother less about your kind because there will be no history to drag with benin

samuk:
There are more authentic sources of Benin history these guys are not even aware of.

There were nothing said or written about Benin/Ife relationship in the first 200 years of European visitations to Benin.

But not to distract from TAO11. reply which I am eagerly waiting for.

I will like to see the lies and fabrications he will come up with this time to dig himself and his sources out of the hole he puts them.

Add me up on whatsapp

08155024814

samuk:
You can only imagine if these guys had access to world institutions that houses Benin world acclaimed records and achievements.

No matter what they come up with, there is very little they can do to undo or even diminished past Benin glories and greatness.

Where are they going to start from, is it to discredit the Benin moat that even surpassed any human structure ever built by man on planet earth at that time or is it the numerous art works that adores museums across the world, from Europe, Canada, America and Australia to mention a few.

Apart from these fabrication and distortions of Benin history online, what else do you really expect from this guys.

Imagine growing up to read in your history how Benin once decimated your land and beheaded your Obas and ruled over your land and people for whatever reason for centuries until the British came to liberate your people, what will you do, especially when you can't physically avenge the past.

Would you not also resort to the only weapons within your reach to piss and shit all over their history, would you not be angry that no matter what you write, there are still aspects of their history that are beyond reach.

What will you and can you do about their art works across the world still showcasing their greatness in far away lands to people of today and yet unborn, the moat, the greatest fit by any race, numerous documents in European archives spanning hundreds of years detailing eye witness accounts of their past glories and greatness, the bight of Benin, an international body of water carrying the name of Benin as a mark of recognition for it's greatness. Today, a country also bears the name Benin.

We sometimes have to allow these people to enjoy themselves online as a feel good factor.

There is a saying in Benin that after you beat up a child, you don't or shouldn't also deny the child the opportunity to cry.

samuk
ghostwon
davidnazee

Please i need your attention

I want us to weigh the truth behind the ife and benin history because the history its so watery with no substantiall evidence no research has been done on it to validate its truth before, i read an article that disproved there was ever a relationship between both tribes outall


Please all concerned benin peope should drop thier whatsapp number here lets privately review this relationship on whatsapp, we may have been going on this history the wrong way

TAO11:
You are still here struggling for your life!

You're actually replying to the wrong comment oo. I have since began another issue and moved. No time!

Anyways, I'm glad I eventually gave you the courage to kill your irrational technophonbia.

You can now confidently search some materials by yourself. Wow! A great leap.

(1) Having said that, Regnum Orguene --- like I have said --- is latin for Kingdom of the Oghene.

"Regnum" is a latin word meaning "Kingdom", while "Orguene" is a laitinization of the name "Oghene" which the Europeans had learnt from Benin kingdom.

"Oghene" does not exist originally as a European word, it has to be latinized to be rendered in a European tongue.

And some other renderings include: Ogane, Hooganee, etc. Names aren't translated, lad.

Wait, I am not sure why you held back from at least writting the meaning you found of Regnum Orguene.

Did you think I will beat you?

(2) Can you please point out the difference (if any) between the visual delineation of the Kingdom of the Oghene (as shown in the attached map), and the textual description of the Kingdom of the Oghene (as shown in your own attachment).

I am waiting! Wait what was your grade in WASSCE Geography??

Screenshot says otherwise do you need the link

Kingdom of oghene wasnt refferd by the edos as ife

Now get it right

A non edo is called an uhe( meaning stranger)
Regardless if its igbo or yoruba

Oghene means priest like wise ohenhen

So literally the edo told the Portuguese that the most powerful person down the river niger
Is a stranger priest and this was at 14c while benin had not attain the position of a city

Unless you want to prove a a foreign research work who owes no tribe any form of bigotries ife and benin thesame link you posted to me