₦airaland Forum

TAO11:
"The head of the royal corpse was subsequently exhumed and taken to the royal ancestral grave at Ile-Ife; but this was only done in every third reign."

Reference:
J. U. Egharevba, Benin Law and Custom, (CMS Niger Press, Port Harcourt 1946), p.72.

TAO11:
No, you are!
And I know it.
Not "Lol"ing.

TAO11:
You are still here struggling for your life.

Anyways, there is not one thing in your gibberish above which I have not debunked and rubbished on this same thread, or in others

My honest advice for you is as follows:

(1) Make out time to go through my recent posts and digest them thoroughly as if you have an exam to write.

(2) Prior to doing that, make sure you have gotten yourself a copy of Queen Primer and study through all its available volume.

(3) Proceed after then to debating those of the same single-digit IQ as you, and see how well you've fared if any progress still.


It is after all the foregoing that I may consider ever stooping down again to engaging you on what should be an intellectual exchange.

But for now, it is very, very obvious that my ideas, ratiocination, and appreciation of evidence very, very easily eludes your grasp.

Shouldn't that be obvious to you as enough evidence that I am way, way out of your league?

Your urgent task for now, if you still feel bitten by truth, is to go around Benin scouting for relevant persons whom you think is worth my time in terms of intellectual competence, integrity, and decorum.

It must, at a minimum, be someone who is much, much smarter than the combination of you, samuk, ghostwon, and davidnazee --- otherwise it will be another waste of my precious time.

I have spent enough of my time on charity, especially with you --- spoonfeeding you in the hope of seeing some growth.

Anytime you feel the intense emotional need to "defend" "Benin kingdom" from truth, always ask yourself the following $1m question:

Why did those whom I admit are way smarter than me (i.e. samuk, ghostwon, et al.) run away from these 'reputation' shattering points even though it was specifically directed at them??


For anyone who care for truth --- As it stands now, it has been demonstrated (beyond a shred of reasonable contention) that the Orun Oba Ado site in Ife is indeed the burial site of the exhumed heads of every third-reign Benin king.

See the three links below (with the 3rd being very important) for the analysis of the historical and archaeological evidence leading to this conclusion on Orun Oba Ado.

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/14#88076290

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/14#88076310

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/15#88104911


As is seen from above, the 1961-2 archaeological finds by Professor Frank Willett, from the Orun Oba Ado site, came to match and corroborate the historical data earlier published by Chief J. U. Egharevba in the mid-1940s with astonishing accuracy.


This has therefore puts to a final rest all the laughable conspiracy jokes of how Chief J. U. Egharevba hated is own Edo heritage --- jokes that have been repeatedly regurgitated by certain Binis who struggle to stomach the "too-much-truth" from their own most celebrated indigenous Edo historian in the world.


Also, as it stands now, the fact the Ooni of Ife is regarded in ancient Bini kingdom as God Almighty (incarnated in human flesh) --- "Oghene" as they called him --- as being established without a shred of reasonable contention. See link below (among numerous other comments in this thread) on this:


https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/18#88149121


Cheers!

MetaPhysical:
....gregyboy, areafada,

Continue to tell the world about Edo and Bini greatness begining with your contact with Portuguese.

On our side we will continue to remind the world that the throne and civilization you praise belong to Yoruba and we will support it with facts that pre-date Portuguese....back to when your Oruh ancestors roamed thw wilderness in their n.ayk.edness.

TAO11:
Thank you, MetaPhysical for the flogging you've been consistently giving our Edo subjects on this thread. Please always tag me going forward.

I have flogged them to silence on the topic of "Orun Oba Ado" where I have shown from historical and archaeological evidence that "Orun Oba Ado" is indeed the burial site of the exhumed heads of every third-reign Benin Oba.

I have also flogged them to silence with historical cum archaeological evidence showing how the Ooni of Ife was regarded by the olden Obas of Benin as God Almighty (incarnated in the flesh) --- "Supreme God", to use the precise and exact words used by Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II.

Anyone who cares for truth may refer to the link below for a summary of the evidence:

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/19#88191795

And for you samuk, stop pretending to be tagging me when in fact what you do is to deliberately and intentionally misspell my moniker so I won't notice your comments.

Lately, you have repeatedly been replacing the letter "O" in "TAO11" with the number "0" just to give-off the false impression (to your gullible Benin audience) that you are capable of engaging me, when in fact you're dead-scared of tagging my moniker correctly --- something you otherwise do correctly at the outset.

I stand for the truth regardless of how bitter it tastes.

Peace!!

TAO11:
Thank you, MetaPhysical for the flogging you've been consistently giving our Edo subjects on this thread. Please always tag me going forward.

I have flogged them to silence on the topic of "Orun Oba Ado" where I have shown from historical and archaeological evidence that "Orun Oba Ado" is indeed the burial site of the exhumed heads of every third-reign Benin Oba.

I have also flogged them to silence with historical cum archaeological evidence showing how the Ooni of Ife was regarded by the olden Obas of Benin as God Almighty (incarnated in the flesh) --- "Supreme God", to use the precise and exact words used by Omo N'Oba Erediauwa II.

Anyone who cares for truth may refer to the link below for a summary of the evidence:

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/19#88191795

And for you samuk, stop pretending to be tagging me when in fact what you do is to deliberately and intentionally misspell my moniker so I won't notice your comments.

Lately, you have repeatedly been replacing the letter "O" in "TAO11" with the number "0" just to give-off the false impression (to your gullible Benin audience) that you are capable of engaging me, when in fact you're dead-scared of tagging my moniker correctly --- something you otherwise do correctly at the outset.

I stand for the truth regardless of how bitter it tastes.

Peace!!

AreaFada2:
You must remember that the editors of his 1933/34 book were Yoruba. The British really punished us. They refused to allow Benin people build and fund their schools.

For example people from the rich fertile area of Oghada went to the British resident officer in Benin to permit them build and self-fund a school for 100 Oghada boys. They were refused. The British asked them to bring their sons to be sent to Calabar to school. Oba Ovonramwen that went to Calabar didn't return, so nobody sent their sons. On their own the British claimed they had no money to build schools in Benin. But Benin was the most lucrative province in Nigeria officially. Because booming rubber trade for plastic and nascent car industry (tyres) made them lots of cash.

Even churches needed permission to build schools and they preferred areas where the government gave them grants. British had no grant for Benin area. Much of that history is not told.

The British resident had already sent a Memo to Westminster. To warn them that if they allowed Benins to be educated, they would be worst and fiercest opponents of British Rule in Nigeria. Owing to their anger over 1897 and deportation of the king. The memo is in Westminster as we speak.

By 1930s, Yorubas had begun writing the history in their favour. With the British on their side.

I think circumstances forced Egharevba to allow Yoruba meddle with his work. Otherwise they would never have published it.

MetaPhysical:
This topic is about Ife claim on your throne.

Stop beating around the bush. Stay focused.

Ooni says Yoruba own that territory, we colonized it.

I am saying Edo, Benin, Oba, Ogiso, Igodomigodo, and many more including Uselu....are names and identifiers that support Ooni's claim and superior to any other tale convovted from anywhere.

By telling us how great Benin was and your trade with Portuguese only highlights Yoruba Supremacy over you....and not your own self-greatness because what you highlight is property of Yoruba....not your indigeneous Oruh forest people.

Stop highlighting Yoruba greatness. Highlight your indigeneous self-rise to prominence. I dare you to do that.

Edo is Yoruba word.
Ubini (Bini) is Yoruba word
Uselu (seat of Oranmiyan and Eweka) is Yoruba word.
Oba is Yoruba word.
Ogiso is Yoruba word.
Igodomigodo is Yoruba word.


Tell us a greatness on your land that is NOT connected with Yoruba. There is none!

So keep on singing Bini heirarchy and power. You praise foreigners and we the Yoruba are the foreigners that colonized you. You remain our slaves for eternity!

When Oba of Lagos says he is from Benin he links his roots to Eweka and Oranmiyan, an Ife prince.

Getsense....

AreaFada2:
Their problem is hubris. They claim being educated. So nobody knows anything in their view.

Actually since 1970, post Biafra war, tribal fault lines have sharpened. Before independence it was there but not as bad. Worse since the 1980s even.

Consider this: by 1979, Queen Idia mask/face was by far the best recognised artwork in Nigeria. It was used as Festac Symbol. If Festac was holding today, can you imagine so called ethnic majorities allow Idia mask? NO WAY! They would find a way to conjure a WAZOBIA symbol.

Dr Idemudia was personal physician to President Nnamdi Azikiwe. He was with Zik in the Caribbean cruise on convalescence when January Coup 1966 occurred.
My alma mater Prof Bello-Osagie served as physician to heads of states from Gowon to IBB. A fact Babangida stated at his funeral in Benin years ago.
Prof Emovon was VC of Unijos in the early 80s.

Ephraim Omorose Akpata was Justice of the supreme court.

Basically before quota system, tribalism and pandering to majority tribes completely took over, the Benins and indeed Edos were recognized for their ability on merit.

Today, it's tribe/religion before talent in appointments.

MetaPhysical:
You guys are spinning wheels like rats in a lab. You walk one mile and still in same spot.

You are highliting and giving supremacy to the spread of Yoruba, however much you tout Benin and Edo.

You must denounce Edo, Oba, Uselu, Ogiso, Igodomigodo as Yoruba lecxicon first and establish it is an indigeneous Oru tongue.

Next you must share your beginning in history....pre-dating contact with foreigners such as Ife, Portuguese, Britain....who were you?

samuk:
I already alluded to the fact that Egharevba work was greatly influenced by Yoruba and his Yoruba heritage in one of my replies to TA011 in the other thread.

Oba Erediawa said the same thing in his book.

The Esogban of Benin, third in position to the Oba said in his reply to the late Ooni that we in Benin thought that Egharevba wrote a fantastic story but didn't realised that the Ooni took it seriously to even reference it.

Most people in Benin don't take the Benin/Ife story seriously.

MetaPhysical:
You guys are spinning wheels like rats in a lab. You walk one mile and still in same spot.

You are highliting and giving supremacy to the spread of Yoruba, however much you tout Benin and Edo.

You must denounce Edo, Oba, Uselu, Ogiso, Igodomigodo as Yoruba lecxicon first and establish it is an indigeneous Oru tongue.

Next you must share your beginning in history....pre-dating contact with foreigners such as Ife, Portuguese, Britain....who were you?

AreaFada2:
Since I can smell your historical and scientific ignorance from thousands of miles away, no need engaging you at all. Continue in your ignorance.

In Japan, 1603-1867 is called the Edo period. A period of most stable peace and stability until then. In Japan names like Sayuki, Osasu, Osamu and others are common names.

In your logic, I should be on my way to claim Kyoto, Tokyo and indeed Japan as Benin territory.

MetaPhysical:
Ohhh noo...!!

I cant believe you wont engage me on such a fundamental piece of history. I cant believe it!

Everything in your claim of independence and superiority is tied to Benin, Edo, Oba, Ogiso, Igodomigodo....none of which contain your native indigeneous tongue unquely defined in 'gh', "v", 'z'.

This is critical! Foreigners found your land and civilized it. Ooni of Ife is absolutely accurate that Benin is an extension of Yorubaland.

Dispute me with counter facts.

Wetin concer me with Japan? Why are you deflecting

samuk:
What you see as historical facts conflicting started most recently by the Yorubas trying to rewrite their history as a unified one to make themselves look good.

Before 1897 when the British invaded and put an end to the old Benin empire, everyone knows where they stand.

The well documented History of Benin for centuries made no reference to Yoruba or Igbo as a unified tribe or one people because these tribes didn't always exist as one.

That is not to say that Benin did not interacted with some tribes in the West and East who are now part of the larger Yoruba and Igbo groups.

In dealing with Benin/Yoruba relationship, you have to look at it from the position of Benin relationship with the individual tribes in other not to muddle things up and confuse yourself.

There are the Benin/Akure relationship, Benin/Ekiti Relationship, Benin/Lagos relationship, etc.

Same with Benin/ various Igbo tribes relationship and Benin/ middle belt or North relationships.

These relationships varied depending on how cooperative or rebellious and close proximity to Benin.

Today, you will see someone whose former tribe be it Igbo or Yoruba had a nominal relationship with Benin, now arguing that Benin kingdom didn't extend their influence to Igbo land or Yoruba land.

You will see, a now member of the wider Igbo tribe arguing Benin/Onitsha relationship with prominent Onitsha indigines, same way someone from formerly little known Yoruba tribes will argue Lagos/Benin relationship with prominent Lagos indigines including the Oba of Lagos himself.

It's easy for an Igbo person to get confused seeing all these Benin/Yoruba debates online because the Yorubas of today makes it look like they used to be one big unified tribe for centuries.

Imagine reading about Benin/Oyo relationship which is different from Akure/Benin relationship which is different from Benin/Lagos relationship but all being presented as one history.

You could read an account about how Benin once beheaded an Oba from one Yoruba tribe from the indigines of that place themselves only for you to see another person from a different Yoruba tribe jumps in to shout this person down saying it never happened.

When Oba of Lagos and most of his white cap chiefs says that they are from Benin, you will see someone from Ogbomosho jumps in to argue that they don't know what they are saying.

Back to similarities between old Benin kingdom people and Yoruba, Igbo and Northerners.

Depending on where you a looking from, a Yoruba man can easily mistake a Benin man to be an Igbo man, numerous Yorubas initially thought I am Igbo until I correct them and some of them don't see the difference between Benin and Igbo

Same as some Igbos mistaking Benin to be Yorubas.

Even some Nigerians will mistake Edo North people to be Northerners because of their names and Islamic religion.

These are the consequences of being an empire, there will always be cultural overlaps from interaction from various tribes that the empire came into contact with.

This is the reason Benin is more diverse in terms of people, food, music, culture etc.

Benin is a mini Nigeria and probably the most liberal city in Nigeria, if in doubt, ask the various tribes that resides there. Tribalism is near zero.

TAO11:
(1) Except that d'Aveiros documented from Benin kingdom in the same 15th century that the Ogane is suzerain over Benin kingdom.

And today, historians have since settled the olden debate of who the Ogané is. See 1st attachment below.

(2) No one argued that this bronze sculpture was produced by some ancient Ife artist.

I already mentioned it to be a Benin bronze sculpture. In other words, a bronze sculpture produced by some ancient Benin artist.

What I had stated, with scholarly evidence, was that this Benin bronze sculpture represents an Ife messenger.

Now you grasp the difference!

(3) Except that Ife bronzes are more detailed, are more accurate, and are more realistic.

You may want to produce any ancient Benin artwork (of about the same time as seen in my 2nd attachment below) which you think may even compare in detail, accuracy, or realism. Lol.

Having said that, your just-disproven-point (3) does not even help you and your brother's argument here, even if it were true. Yet it isn't.

No, it was I who provided the image of the Benin sculpture with cat-whisker marks as evidence for my point.
gregyboy only 'stole' it despite him not realizing that it supports my point and not his.
See link below to where I brought it up.

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/17#88133778

And the picture of the "Nupe" people he provided only shows what is already known --- which is that: The Nupe people, just like the Yagba-Yoruba people, also have catwhisker markings.

Do we then arbitrarily conclude that the Benin figure represents a Nupe person --- without further evidence --- even when Yagba-Yoruba people have exactly the very same markings?

No! That would be a silly and m0r0nic thing to do! Further evidence have to be adduced.

So, which identification does further evidence support? See point (4)

(4) Except that scholars say the exact opposite of your conclusion here --- a conclusion you have drawn from your watery logic.

Scholars have already submitted the following:

(a) That "a group of Yagba Yoruba (the Yoruba subgroup who bears cat whisker markings) occupy an Ife ward where the Iyagba dialect is still sometimes spoken."
--- Andrew Apter (p.c.) cited in S. P. Blier, 2012. p.77

(b) That Benin bronzes of persons with cat whisker markings depict messengers from Ife.
--- S. P. Blier, 2012, p.77.

Conclusion:
Firstly, it is seen very clearly that the bronze sculpture in question is made in ancient Benin considering its obvious artistic style, and also going by the conlusions of art historians.

Secondly, this Benin bronze is clearly of a man with cat whisker markings.

So, tell me why "any fair minded person" will forsake the scholarly conclusion that this Benin bronze represents an Ife messenger; and rather go with the fairytale of Nairaland clowns --- samuk or gregyboy.

(5) Except that according to d'Aveiros' account, the production of the small brass crosses was not meant for the Ogane's kingdom itself.

They are instead meant to be produced and despatched to Benin (as part of the incoming Oba's official emblems of office) once in every Benin ascension.
--- João de Barros,1552 in Ryder, 1965, pp.26-27.

And it is also mentioned in ibid, p.33. that the messengers also keep similar brass crosses for themselves as reward for the labour of the journey.

Now guess what, an interesting evidence of the actual existence and use of the brass crosses survived till as late as the 1920s, during the reign of Oba Eweka II to be precise.

Ward-Price documents some of the experience from his visit to Oba Eweka II.

He noted that the Oba took him into a narr0w ro0m in the palace --- a room which he noted has a tall window at an end.

--- See the 4th attachment below for some details of what he learnt from Oba Eweka II during this visit. His documentation shows clearly that the not only does the use of the brass crosses survive till the mid 1900s, their use in Benin kingdom also connects to Ife and Yoruba land.

Clearly, the account specifically mentioned "Oghene" in relation to "Ife".

How will you guys get yourselves out of this?

(6) Except that the earliest Europeans did write about the Kingdom of the Oghene both in d'Aveiros' late 1400s documentation, and also in a 1525 French map with Latin annotations.

And we know --- not only from my 1st attachment (which shows a modern scholarly consensus), but also from Oba Eweka II's testimony to Ward-Price --- that the Oghene is none other than the Ooni of Ife.

--- See the 3rd attachment for the 1525 map showing the words "Regnum Orguene" (Latin for: "Kingdom of the Oghene") written over the Nigeria region.

If you had argued that the early Portuguese didn't enter Ife, that would have been a different story.

And historians have now come to know why the Europeans back then didn't dare attempt taking the risk.

(7) The rants here need no reply, and the repititions therein have already been debunked somewhere from points (1) to (6).

(8 ) Yes, Ife was one of the most prominent pre- 16th century surviving empires in the west Africa forest.

And yes, survivng evidence does exists from this golden age.

For example, archaeological excavation quests have unearthed ancient Ife artworks that has been described by the archaeologist, Frank Willett as "art works of first importance" which he noted are "so very sophisticated in a European manner that they stood apart from the rest of African sculpture."
--- F. Willett, 1959, p.135.

Also, archaeological excavation quests have unearthed glass manufacturing sites from ancient Ife at Igbo-Olokun, etc. dating to as early as the 12th century or even earlier.

What about the ancient Ife's unique dichroic glass beads production site which was also unearthed --- a discovery which has come to reveal Ife's commercial power even in as distant places as Ghana, Mali, and Mauritania.

Did I mention Ife's ancient iron smelting sites? Note, I'm not talking here of mere blacksmithing sites. Again, iron smelting sites.

I almost forgot, the unearthing of large areas of ancient potsherd/quartz peeble pavement from ancient Ife. These particular finds have since confirmed to experts that the art of street tiling was known in early times in ancient Ife.

They are just two numerous to mention!

Having said all that, hard extant archaeological evidence (from at least the early 1300s) exists which confirms the Ife-Benin connection.

For example, visit the Benin Museum as soon as you can, and ask the chief curator (who is most certainly a Benin person) about the copper alloy image of the Ooni of Ife which is kept in the Museum.

To give you a sneak peek of the response you will get:

An ancient copper alloy figure clearly identifiable by experts as the image of an Ooni of Ife was recovered from the Benin palace. I won't say a word!
--- see my next comment for an attached image of this figure.

(9) The rants here need no reply, and the repititions therein have already been debunked somewhere from points (1) to (8 )


Peace!!

TAO11:
See replies to your ret@rded contentions here:

https://www.nairaland.com/5713629/main-reasons-yoruba-not-enlisted/18#88149121


The only reason you've replied me now while samuk himself has ran away is because you're less intelligent than him.


He understands what hit him. You on the other hand have no clue what's even going on.


Go get yourself a copy of "Queen Primer".

TAO11:
cc: samuk gregyboy

As promised above, see attachment below for the ancient copper alloy figure of the Ooni of Ife recovered by from the palace of Benin kingdom
--- see S. P. Blier, 2012, p.77. see also The Benin Museum.


An interesting observation:
-------------------------------------------
I noticed, in the course of this exchange that (despite it not being a good looking idea for Benin kingdom) you all still somehow clung to the obviously disproven idea of Nupe/Igala ascendancy over Benin kingdom.

More like anything to escape from the Yorubas.

Anyways, you all are stuck, and the Izoduwa theory has been disproven as a myth.

Accept fate!



I am, however, still waiting for your reply on Orun Oba Ado which I have shown (through historical and archaeological evidence) to be the burial site of the heads of third-reign Benin Obas.

samuk, I warned you from the outset!

TAO11:
Mo Ryder said he is not sure of what he is saying oo!

Which scholar said certain artwork wears helmet. I think you're hallucinating.

What scholars say instead is that the Ogane sends brass helmet (among other thins) to the incoming Oba of Benin.


And guess what, some of such brass helmets survives till date.

Guess their name: They are called Oduduwa helmet mask. Research it and revert back here.


You lie for a living just like the father kf lie himself.

Post here the picture of the ancient Nupe artwork showing the crosses on messengers.

How in your twisted mind doea the picture of pots, woods and people mean the same thing as a Nupe artwork of depictingesswngers adorn crosses??

Again you're deliberately dumb! Adam Knobler already knows himself to be a scholar, and he doesn't have to keep repeating "I too am a scholar" everytime he mentions what scholars say as a consensus.

He doesnt battle inferiority complex like you. He is no gregyboy.


And regarding Amazon or jstor, I never posted you any such screenshot. I think you're feeling the brunt of sleep deprivation already.

What I posted to you is an link to Amazon where you can pay fkr the book and stop hoping on fraud.

TAO11:
I have provided evjdence for the same marks in Ife in scholarly statement as well as in Ife terracota work.

There s no such Nupe Artwork showing messengers with cross.

If you had you will provided reference to it by caution, screenshot, or link, or any other reference for that matter.


Ryder himself noted that he doesn't knlw if he his correct, but gregyboy is telling him "shut up! you're correct"

Anyways, modern scholarship has finally proven conclusively that both Ryder (who thinks he's not sure, and you who strangely insist that he is correct) are all wrong.


Again, I have adduced evidence that the cat whisker markings are also found in Ife.



Prove it with pictures

TAO11:
I have provided evjdence for the same marks in Ife in scholarly statement as well as in Ife terracota work.

There s no such Nupe Artwork showing messengers with cross.

If you had you will provided reference to it by caution, screenshot, or link, or any other reference for that matter.


Ryder himself noted that he doesn't knlw if he his correct, but gregyboy is telling him "shut up! you're correct"

Anyways, modern scholarship has finally proven conclusively that both Ryder (who thinks he's not sure, and you who strangely insist that he is correct) are all wrong.


Again, I have adduced evidence that the cat whisker markings are also found in Ife.

samuk:
Whilst you carry on this debate/argument just remember that no matter what you produce to prove the Yorubas wrong, they are not going to let go of Benin/Ife connection, it means the world to them, they have invested so much on it, without it they will have no solid history to brag about.

You carry on and enjoy yourself but remember the Yorubas are not going to let go, no matter what.

They need Benin to validate Ife.

samuk:
Whilst you carry on this debate/argument just remember that no matter what you produce to prove the Yorubas wrong, they are not going to let go of Benin/Ife connection, it means the world to them, they have invested so much on it, without it they will have no solid history to brag about.

You carry on and enjoy yourself but remember the Yorubas are not going to let go, no matter what.

They need Benin to validate Ife.

TAO11:
He didn't say probably Nupe or Igala.

Instead, he used the word probably for the whole of the confluence region.

And I'm not sending you no book.

I refuse to be a party to fraud.

Get your lazy ass out of your mama's house as soon as you can, and get to hustle and access relevant materials legally.

TAO11:
Yes, and Ryder said he wasnt sure what he is saying.

He used the word probably all through.


Moreover, scholars have long and till date nlted that Benin bronzes with cat whiskers are messangers from Ife.


And the Benin bronzes showing the crosses all have cat whiskers.

TAO11:
That Mr. A has certain items, etc. is no evidence that such items is not foumd elsewhere.

And as I have shown such cat whisker marking are also common among the Yagba-Yoruba some group of which are said to occupy an Ife ward.

See my foregoing comment.

What is certain at least is that such marking is alien to Benin.

See also the Ife terracota head below:

TAO11:
No the facial marks is of the Yagba-Yoruba subgroup.

And according to Andrew Apter, a group of Yagba Yoruba occupy an Ife ward where the Iyagba dialect is still sometimes spoken.

Such cat-whisker marking is alien to Benin.

Moreover their is nothing Benin about a wrapper and a top. In fact.

Benin messengers go about naked without clothes.

Ijebu (at least) introduced a heavy presence of clothes to ancient Benin.

TAO11:
(1) You're so ignorant!

Adam Knobler's work which I cited is not an article. Gosh! It's a book for God's sake. I doubt if you know what the difference there is between either.

And I won't post you any link to the book, except a link to Amazon where you may pay the price for your copy of his copyrighted intellectual work.

https://www.amazon.com/Mythology-Diplomacy-Exploration-Expansion-Indigenous/dp/9004324895


And no, the identification of the Ogané in the work I referenced is accurate NOT MERELY because it was written in 2016 --- I think you're being deliberately ignorant now just to save face.

Rather, it is accurate because it describes the contemporary consensus reached today by scholars who have studied the subject.

This contrasts with all the different variety of opinions that have been put forward in the past, including Ryder1965's and Thornton1988's among many, many others.

For the umpteenth time, see how Adam Knobler puts it in the attachment below showing clearly that this is not his personal conclusion or some other individual conclusion.


(2) First of all: Contrary to your claim here, I did not assume that "scholars" have now come to that identification.

Rather, I was merely echoing the statement of a world-renowned scholar, Adam Knobler --- a statement which can still be seen in the attachment below.

It clearly didn't say "few scholars", neither did it say "some scholars", nor did it say "many" or "most" scholars. It simply puts it as "scholars" --- a direct expression of consensus and unanimity.

In the light of this, your request for the names of all present-day scholars (whom Adam Knobler alludes to) is not only an disgracefuly absurd face-saving attempt, it also makes no difference to the fact on ground.

And the fact on ground remains that scholars now in contemporary times identify the Ogané with the Ooni of Ife, as seen in the words of Adam knobler below.

(3) (i) No one mentioned that the the bronze artefacts depict people "carrying".

(ii) No one mentioned that these specific bronze artefacts are Ife's.

(iii) And lastly no one mentioned that these bronze artefacts has anything to do with the helmets.

You obviously need to urgently learn how to read!

Anyways, the following are my precise words:

"Historians have examined the bronze figures featuring small crosses and have found interestingly that all the figures have cat whisker tribal markings at the corner of their mouth --- a specific kind of facial marking that has been shown by scholars "to depict messengers from Ife."."

And the statement that "Benin figures" with "cat whisker facial marks at the corner of the mouth ... depict messengers from Ife" can be found, for example, in S. P. Blier's "Art in Ife, Birthplace of the Yoruba", African Arts, Vol. 45 (4), Winter 2012, p.77.

Sew the attachment below for one of such Benin bronze artefact. works

In summary, we see the following here:

i. Certain Benin bronzes bear small crosses.

ii. All Benin cross bearing bronzes have cat-whiskers markings.

iii. Benin bronzes with cat-whiskers markings (with cross or no cross) represent messengers from Ife.

I leave it to you to draw the obvious conclusion of of whether or not that there is a Ife-Benin connection through the subject of crosses, which you brought up.

The foregoing is aside from the fact that there is an important historical documentation which describes how [i]Oba Eweka II[/I] makes use of one such small brass cross in a daily sacred devotion which he connects with the "Oghene of Ife" (as he 'named' the Ooni to Ward-Price) and other Yoruba kings.

Yet, the Portuguese document talks of small brass cross which the Ogané dispatches to Benin (through messengers) as part of the official emblems of office for an incoming Oba of Benin.

In the light of all these, can it be clearer whom this Ogané is?

May be it can, because scholars have now specifically and unanimously identified the Ogané as the Ooni of Ife.

babtoundey:
TAO11, You are doing a wonderful job. You're not just giving them troubles by making them know the truth for what it is but also giving clearer picture of Ife/Benin connection to those who care to know.

What can be more interesting, you have pushed them so hard, lashed them so hard that they are now doubting what they used to think is a catholic truth. They now consider Ife/Benin relationship; the existence of Izeduwa, Oranmiyan, Eweka, as a subterfuge. What can be more hilarious! I guess in few months time, they will converge and come up with a fashion which will purport that Oranmiyan came from Igal/Nupe- after all, they are at ease knowing and accepting Ogene being referred to is an Igala/Nupe king.

Well done, bro.