₦airaland Forum

EmperorHarry:
It doesn't really have to result in an argument but enlightenment of the "ignorant" on something you're much knowledgeable on.

if Richard Dawkins and others have tried to do it and people didn’t get enlightened. Then I do not think people would listen to message

Okay but god in the sense of an intelligence influencing nature and the universe and not the religious understanding of a god with personality traits,seeking worship,sacrifices and offerings etc.

What natural selection observed is that no one influences the selection process. Nature does that perfectly

Well at this point the ID theory and your evolution can explain the origin of life coupled with the big bang theory are pretty much made up of assumptions.
Evolution is still a work in progress(I feel I've said this too many times already) and should not be used as a counter evidence against ID without clarification.This misinforms observers,propagating the idea that evolution refutes the influence of ID which is like saying gravity refutes ID.Next time you use evolution to refute ID try to separate the phenomenon from the origin of life aspect.There are too many things yet to be discovered as regards to evolution.
One of the major reasons for disagreements between evolutionists and creationists is the young earth theory.This theory seeks to refute evolution by stating the earth is not billions of years old but just a few thousand years old.This shows that evolution could not have occurred in such a short time.
I feel you should look up the misconceptions associated with ID by evolutionists.

Evolution doesn’t have anything to do with how life came into existence. You are talking about abiogenesis. Neither did Big Bang claim to be the first cause.

Now evolution isn’t an assumption. Do you assume that the sun produces heat ? No. Evolution is a fact!

SheikhMuniru:
What Can You Say About Your People (IPob & Biafra) Disturbing The Peace Of Eastern And Southern Nigeria, Are They Not Xtians?

I am Yoruba

This is actually disheartening! But

SheikhMuniru:
One Thing I Hate Most Is That These People Are Hiding Under The Umbrella Of Islam

they’re not hiding Islam is actually violent

johnydon22:
Lol it is almost like your problem here is that intelligent design implies God.


Actually they do have a valid argument. An argument is valid if it follows a consistent logical train of thought.

I believe i have given you quite an elaborate logically valid argument for the design theory of which you are now attempting to refute.

then the ID Proponents should give an evidence for any life that did not follow the process of natural selection

johnydon22:
Actually No. I am not, you are more guilty of it.

Whether God (designer) is designed or not, simply has no bearing on the argument of design.

The argument is; Design is recognized to be likley when something is made of specific parts or systems that perform specific specific function.

And the intelligent design argument follows that premise; Humans have specific parts and systems that perform specific functions.

Conclusion: Humans are likely to be designed.

Bringing in the special pleading to this argument is non sequitur, it has nothing to do with the argument above.

You can only bring it up if the person is failing to maintain the implication of their logic but as a reply to the primary argument of design above? Naaah, not even close.

So, why not wait for the person to commit the blunder of special pleading before bringing out that refutation because this doesn't refute the argument of design.

See, whether house took 1 or 50,000 people, the argument is that it was designed and this design is deducted due to the presence of specific parts and systems that perform specific functions.

okay thank you for the correction

EmperorHarry:
Loollll..TV01 this is one of the evolutionists that I'm referring to as the problem.Oga Hakeem I've been looking for you for some days now due to the bustle on buda's evolution thread.You have been nowhere to be found which is disappointing since evolution is kinda your area of expertise. You boldly stated as the subject of topic "ID refuted" but you haven't refuted anything to the best of knowledge but recycled the same old fallacy fallacy being commited and arguments.

truth is that I wouldn’t like to argue with my intelligent design proponent. If you read this article well I stated that ID is just another term for god. And at best most ID proponents don’t have any valid argument to give.

johnydon22:
Ok ooo let me see your refutation bro.

ok

This is a very weird argument because it is non sequitur to the primary argument made.

Let me demonstrate:

Primary premise: Wright brothers designed and created the aeroplane
Your refutation: Therefore wright brothers must have also being designed and created by something.

Your refutation didn't address the premise of the argument, it simply created a new one which doesn't really have anything to do with the primary argument.

That the Designer also should have a designer is blatantly irrelevant to the subject being discussed. J.k Rowlins having a designer is irrelevant to the idea that she must have written Harry Potter.

So, brining up that the ID must have a designer is a different argument and has nothing to do with it designing anything if it did in fact design something.

How are you refuting an argument with a point that doesn't really refute the argument but is simply at best creating an entirely different argument?

now you’re red herring here. These your examples have nothing to do with what I stated up there. I said they commit the special pleading fallacy in which god god is given an exception. He designed something complex. He’s complex and he must require a complex designer and this will continue to regress

Don't you think that is weird?

Are you arguing against the model i gave you or some other arguments you've had with some religious folks?

back to the model you gave me. You gave me a house. First of all a house is not designed by one person. The design process consist of different designers such as architect, structural engineers, mechanical engineers , electrical etc. Using your model then even if natural selection is wrong then we do not have one designer. We have groups of designers in which there’s no evidence for.

I don't see how this refutes the argument by an ID proponents that the eyes is designed. Again, this is a weird argument because it presumes to preclude design with the presence of variation.

types of cars:
1. SUV
2. Pickup
3. Sedan
4. Crossover
5. Hatch back
6. Wagon.

How again do you presume to refute design by bringing forth variations?

You are repeating the same blunder as on my thread which i showed you.

See, understanding A is only important when you are trying to address A

You are not necessarily required to understand A if you are not addressing it but simply proposing B as an answer to the same question A presumes to answer.

It is almost like this.

You: I think humans evolved because of this and this and this.
Someone: You don't understand Intelligent design.

This is exactly what you are doing. You are saying someone doesn't understand evolution because they are proposing design as the answer to the same question evolution presumes to answer.

or simply doesn't logically hold sway.

when I meant types of eyes I meant the evolutionary stages

jesusjnr:
My own belief is that it's neither here nor there but a combination of both evolution and design with respect to how humans first came into existence and how their lives has panned out since then.

So maybe you have a first right there.

But in my own belief, the evolution theory only comes up after the design theory.

God bless.

evolution natural selection is not compatible with the ID

johnydon22:
Lol No. A theory is the most logical or deductive explanation for observed facts.

Evolution is the theory that explains the facts, that's what a scientific theory means.

Evolution is a fact natural selection is the scientific theory

So, what fossil records made you agree that life forms changed from one form to another?

Trilobite, etc. They are many I cannot remember them off hand

Johnydon22 gave me an a typical exam most creationist use in the defence of the intelligent designer. Mind you intelligent designer is just another term used for god

E.G: A house.

So, humans as can be observed have specific parts and systems arranged in highly specific intricate ways (arguably more intricate and precise than any of our designs) that performs specific functions - therefore, is more likely to be designed than not.

The popular one I see here is that “ have you ever seen an iPhone come by a random process?”

I took a look into the history of the intelligent design and one of its popular proponents was William paley who talked about the watchmaker argument .

Some people might use the example of the eyes because it is very complex and if you remove any part of the eyes, it won’t function properly again.

First and first and foremost they commit a special pleading fallacy. Special pleading is an informal fallacy wherein one cites something as an exception to a general or universal principle
If were to accept the human eye is complex and it was created by an ID, then the force behind the creation of the eye must be created by another ID.

Secondly they commit an strawman fallacy
This is just another religious argument from ignorance. Let’s assume that most biological organ couldn’t evolve by natural selection. The only thing this does is to only discredit natural selection and it doesn’t give any evidence for any ID

Thirdly they misrepresent natural selection
Most of all the ID proponents misrepresent evolution by natural selection and this is actually annoying . Most creationist claim that complex organs like the eye can’t come from natural selection. But the truth is we know a lot about the eye and you can read on types of eyes
1) eyespot
2) cup eyes
3)pin eyes
4)lens eyes

The last but not the least flaw the ID proponents commit is the personal incredulity fallacy. Now most creationist don’t understand evolution by natural selection. And because you do not understand it is not an evidence for god it is an evidence of lack of understanding

johnydon22:
Awesome

This doesn't really hold any more merit than someone saying design is as true as heat from the sun.

If you’re being honest you’d know evolution has been tested and it’s a scientific fact just like heat from sun is also a scientific fact

Exciting

How did fossils lead you to your conclusion? What fossils?

I do not want to turn this place to a biology class. So I actually expected people to read up on this. But since you’ve asked me to explain then I’d have to.

So what is a fossil? A fossil is the preserved remains of a dead organism from millions of years ago. Evidence for the first form of life were given by fossils.

Similarities can also connote design, Cars are similar to each other yet are designed.

So how did similarity inform your stance?

Like I have an example while I was discussing with capslocked the laryngeal nerve and many other examples


Great.

This doesn't necessarily make something true - Appeal to authority. Otherwise we could point out things once widely held as true by the scientific community of the day that turned out not to be.

Thank you. Then if natural selection isn’t true then it would be the greatest conspiracy theory ever.

Let me play the devils advocate for design. Lol

Not necessarily plain complexity. Let me elaborate the design argument.

We essentially identify something is likely to be designed when such a thing has specific parts or specific systems arranged in specific ways that they perform specific functions.

E.G: A house.

So, humans as can be observed have specific parts and systems arranged in highly specific intricate ways (arguably more intricate and precise than any of our designs) that performs specific functions - therefore, is more likely to be designed than not.

I think its fairer that i elaborated the design argument because it would be easier to refute an argument when you oversimplify it.

The bible or Quran isn't necessarily the benchmark for the design argument. What if the person you are arguing with shows you his argument as I logically outlined and makes it clear he or she isn't basing his argument on any specific religious text or even a specific deity?

I’m particularly going to create a thread about this. Thank you for elaborating it. There are evidence for millions of complex life that came from natural processes but there’s no evidence of a single life designed.

CAPSLOCKED:
I DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT EVOLUTION. NEVER READ MORE THAN TWO LINES ABOUT IT.



HAKEEM4

Don’t mind people who believe the intelligent designer. Intelligent design is just another substitute for god.

BUT HOW CAN A DESIGNER BE CALLED PERFECT WHEN IT'S DESIGNS ARE ALL AWFUL, FLAWED, AND SEEM LIKE THEY EMERGED OUT OF RANDOM CHANCE?

You’d see many of them shifting goal post. Ask them questions about the laryngeal nerve and why is it so long in the human body when the distance it’s supposed to cover is not more than 4 inches. Then the supposed “ omniscient god” made the nerve pass through a long distance about 2ft long. Now imagine in giraffes it’s about 15ft. How intelligent is he?

The laryngeal nerve is one of the evidence of natural selection cause most living things had a common ancestor who once lived in water and fishes do not have necks, so it went straight. But as living things evolved it started stretching that distance.


dont mind creationist they don’t know anything

Evolution has overwhelming evidence.
Now let me define some terms

Evolution is a scientific fact. This is change in the heritable characteristics of biological populations over successive generations. These characteristics are the expressions of genes that are passed on from parent to offspring during reproduction.

1)why I agree with evolution

Whether you believe it or not evolution is a true as the heat from the sun.
Now the theory that explains the process of evolution is called natural selection brought up by Charles Darwin.

I acknowledge the fact of evolution because of the evidence shown forth. In this thread I’m going to give you 3 convincing evidence for evolution by natural selection.

I) Fossils
II) similarity’s among different animals
III) similarity’s among animals DNA.

If these few points don’t still convince you about evolution. Then ask yourself this question “ why is evolution not heavily debated amongst the scientific community?”





2) why do I think design is wrong?

According the other camp “creationist” they proposed that due to the complexity of living things on earth then it must require a designer. But using any religious story of creationism it doesn’t make any sense. For example the bible or the Quran story of creationism contradicts each other seriously. Okay creationist give us evidence for this intelligent designer then we start seeing red herrings. So with these few points I gave I hope I have convinced you that creationism is a faulty answer to how we have complex life

Jinad50:
Bridges and other heavy infrastructures are built across the ocean.




Raining season isn't an hindrance.

I never said it’s impossible, I said it would be difficult

It’s wet season so it would be difficult for construction of roads

You’re not only a dangerous liar, you’re also dishonest. First of all there is no peer reviewed paper on creationism

I’ve read most of your post and I can see you do not understand evolution or any scientific fact or theory. I just feel bad for the innocent lives you’ve misled and you will still mislead

This is not true. First of all no data to back up her claim

New King James Version

Can you give any better scientific theory than the Big Bang?

ABCthings:
God! where do this gullibly people coming from?
There are the same sets of people that believe Buhari is a saint.

Keep getting data. I’d be waiting

TOSIN116:
coming, let me get data.

No video of the gorilla swallowing the money ?
The zoo keeper was the gorilla that swallowed the money for the zoo’s animal feeding

Huh! Almost got me. The title should read one masquerade flogs another masquerade

This is cheating. One works with evidence while the other works with blind faith. Who do you expect to win

The truth is that there’s nothing spiritual about this case. You were probably too anxious.

chijokz:
I've a meeting with a pastor this weekend to discuss tithes, sowing seeds, contradictory bible verses, etc..Can you share some strong contradictory verses and your assertions on tithes to make my debate stronger..Thanks.

they are very easy to find on the internet. But I’d advise you not to argue with any religious leader because majority of the answers you’d hear are
1) he works in a mysterious way
2) you cannot understand the way of god
3) gods ways are different from men
4) the foolishness of god is wiser than the wisdom of men

It’s not possible for you to die and resurrect.
Maybe we should try by defining the term death.
Death is the permanent cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism. So except maybe she’s trying to look for attention or she doesn’t have an idea of what death is

What is ebo? Simple. Ebo is just the wastage of yam, red oil and 2 eggs.

[s]We need EBO for long life.
**We need ebo for blessing
**We need EBO for good marriage
**We need EBO for peace of mind
**We need EBO for forgiveness of the MOTHERS OF THE NIGHT
**We need EBO to solve any kind of problems in our lives.
**We need EBO to alleviate suffering.
[/s]

You’re a dangerous person. All the statements he made up there has never been proven to work. So if you believe this guy well, good luck in wasting your hard earned money

It’s not possible for you to die and resurrect.
Maybe we should try by defining the term death.
Death is the permanent cessation of all biological functions that sustain a living organism. So except maybe she’s trying to look for attention or she doesn’t have an idea of what death is

I do not know what came before the Big Bang but I accept the evidence for the Big Bang.

TOSIN116:
so you do believe something can come out of nothing?

And for the records, you're wrong there are evidences

can you give me these evidences, I’m really interested in them

Irunmole1:
I have no reason to give to you people what is not. If you doubt you can come down to my office, I have a good friend in the military who will help test.

I don't do blind charms, I test before giving out charms.
You don't pay a dime for DIY.

If you feel this is fake, you are free to to ignore and wallow in your ignorance, but ignorance in the end ultimately leads to destruction.

there are many reasons why your charms won’t work. Why don’t your military friends tell the head of defence so the can buy your charms and use it against Boko Haram.

The funny fact is that you’re the ignorant one here. This your product has not been tested but you want us to believe you..

I wish you more customers and when they are shot dead kindly invite me for their burial party so I can give vote of thanks on how stupid they’re