₦airaland Forum

airmark:
Messi scored and everyone forgets busquets stupidity.

Or Iniestas uselessness. It has been the story of his career. Nobody notices how unproductive and useless you are when Messi is there to win the game, and everyone forgets about it.

They are starting to confess. . . .

coded01:
It's a shame barca's identity is absence... Midfield! Since Xavi left!

senorova:
Inesta is not just a great player, he's Barca's skipper and a LA masia product.... I just envy Sergio Ramos how he carries the madridiots on his shoulders when they need him most. Even when they play nonsense, you just see Ramos lead this team from the back...

Congrats scummies!

Ibra or Kante for player of the season

Sergi Roberto looks confused as to the requirement and positioning of that RB position.

Kane want finish golden boot race today.

Kane - 17
Lukaku - 17
Costa - 16

Dele na my boi, Dele na my boi

SIRcumalot:
It is hard to Believe but Messi can't be the best everyday.
Make I just ask this one last thing.
That Time you said Iniesta was the best midfielder of all time (if am remembering correctly) wetin change.

That time is 2009 when he just came to world prominence and relates to that moment in time. You can't be serving 3 goals, 5 assists per season and 60 passes per game 8 years later and expect me to still rate you. I have studied him and Xavis game inside out over the years and sorted the wheat from the chaff.

Pics or I don't believe it.

SIRcumalot:
One man win MotM honours in a European Final,a World Cup final and UCL and who knows how many in important league game with big consequence ?

Do you really think Iniesta was MOTM in any of those finals except WC final where you would give it to him for the golden goal?

Bruh! Be serious, Messi was better than him in all Barca finals, all that one is just sharing some award among the lesser men and for those kind of fans that like to go to stadium and shout olê for dribbles.

Euro-final, they told me he got MOTM award for dribbling but I didn't see any decisive contribution from him to win the match. Xavi provided 2 assists and the telling contributions to win the match, Iniesta was just dribbling for the people that like to shout olê.

Nihilist:
There's a reason I posted the interview clip directly. Conte goes on to say that both are very good players BUT:

Conte defines his conundrum in very specific terms.

He defines Fabregas's addition to the team in terms of quality

He defines Matic's addition to the team in terms of height.

His words not mine.

He is only defining one conundrum. There are many other interviews where he talks about other differences.

This interview is specifically to prepare your minds for West Ham game so Fabrewailers won't start wailing cos he knows support for Fabregas is strong right now. If he keeps his message simply about height, you will have less grey area to moan about. He will let you know after West Ham game that they have the 2nd tallest team in the Prem and have scored the most (17 goals) from set pieces, that's why he dropped Fabregas. It's an easily digestable message to send the fans.

SIRcumalot:
Why should goals scored be allowed when we are comparing two different leagues ?
The only reason why spurs may seem close is the distance between una
Money and the achievement that comes with it is all that we should judge by. Spurs can't hope to touch you on both those issues there have been times nobody in the league can match your spending is it the penny pinching spurs that is close ?
The only reason why spurs may seem close is the distance between una.
The same way some LA liga player don shine pass most of Barcelona except maybe for the Goat doesn't prove anything.
If you can put team achievement aside to see Lampard is a better player than Modric,you can maybe Try the same for Iniesta.

Yet the same Modric is better than Iniesta when teams are equalised.

If I put team achievement aside, Iniesta will be nothing more than a disgraceful AM with less goals than John Terry and less assists than Dani Alves. It is only team achievement that remotely qualifies him to be mentioned in same sentence as a boss like Lampard who has combined 500 goals and assists.

And Spurs is closer to Chelsea than Chelsea is to Barca whether you like it or not. Ordinarily you cannot compare and Chelsea forwards in history to Barca forwards. But people like Gareth Bale would swipe aside Joe Cole, Malouda and Kalou, the wingers that Chelsea carried for 10 years.

Godstraight:
it means just this season then why are folks here shouting that matic has a better passing ratio?,like it is a comparative study of their careers
Because lokaku has scored more goals in EPL this season than aguero does it make a better scorer that kun in the EPL?@ibime

The reason we highlighted his passing stats in relation to Matic is cos some niggas told us he doesn't have to score or assist, that the Barca system only requires him to recycle possession, not do what other AMs are expected to do.

So we said if his only job is recycling possession, why is he doing it worse than Matic this season.

Passes per game is a 90 minute metric. Lukaku does not outperform Aguero on 90 minute metric of goals per game.

Nihilist:
Conte literally said in his post match interview yesterday that playing Fabregas is a balance between the added quality he gives, and the amount lost in Matic's height.

Note that Conte's emphasis was on Matic's physical attributes rather than his defensive attributes. This is the clearest indication that Matic is only making the team based on what he is supposed to offer, NOT because of his defensive attributes anything, because this season he hasn't offered a lot in terms of defence.

This is also a clear counter to them Nateevs who believe that Conte has space in his formation for small technical creators like Fabregas and Veratti. Like I said a few weeks ago, if we sign Veratti today, Conte will still bench him for Matic and not because of any defensive quality bs.

Nope, he is just highlighting one aspect. He has spoken on the other aspects many times.

If I tell you Lampard brings more goals to a team than Iniesta, that does not mean that is the only thing unless I use the word ONLY. He also brings more assists for example.

SIRcumalot:
False.
Don't get too carried away.

This is the education we provide. According to your definition, big game might only be finals. I posted here gifs of 7 goals and assists Lampard has made against Barcelona alone in UCL. Is that not big game?

Meanwhile all Iniesta needed to do to get to final was score 1 goal against Chelsea and you will say he is performing in big game.

Lampard 7 contributions against Barca but without the additional efforts of team mates to help him get to final, you will claim he has not contributed.

Iniesta 1 contribution against Chelsea and he is in final because others were there to help him get there. You will claim he has contributed.

Iniesta should come and play with Joe Cole, Malouda and Kalou, lets see whether he will make it past 2nd round in any tournament.

Same with Spain. 3 tournaments were won and Iniesta is remembered for being in the right place at right time against Holland. Tell me how he would get there with ZERO assists in knockout stage at any of those tournaments.

This is how he got there from Xavi winning games to get him there:

2008 final vs Germany Xavi assist, 2012 final vs Italy, 2 Xavi assists, WC semi vs Germany 1-0, Xavi assist, Paraguay 2nd round, 1-0 Xavi assist, QF vs Portugal 1-0 Xavi assist.

Show me one from Iniesta.

So to repeat myself, Lampard has made so many differences in big games that Iniesta cannot smell.

Lampards big-game-only goals and assists is more than Iniestas whole career total.

The same reason Modric big game performances is being noticed now is that he has the right support cast to put him in the big games. It is the same Modric who is Lampards boy in EPL. Lampard never had the support cast of Iniesta but still took his team places, obviously not the same places as a team like Barca.

SIRcumalot:
Yeaaaah right.
If a spurs fan repeat the argument you use to knock down Iniesta now,I wonder wetin you go talk.

You dont believe Spurs is closer to Chelsea than Chelsea is to Barca?

For one why not compare goals scored in a season by Spurs. Spurs roughly score 70 goals per season, Chelsea score about 90, and Barcelona score 170.

The gap from Chelsea to Barcelona is immense. In the last 13 years, Barca have probably 10 players that have made top 5 Ballon D'or numerous times. Chelsea only have one, and that was Lampard.

If Spurs gives you 75% power to compete against your contemporary from Chelsea, then Chelsea only gives you 50% power to compete against your contemporary from Barca.

Some Spurs players have outshone their Chelsea contemporaries in the past. Gareth Bale conquered the whole Premier league from there. Scott Parker was voted best player in England from there. Berbatov got nominated for Fifpro from there. But Modric was never mentioned as Lampards mate from there.

randomperson:
You can cry all you want but people whose opinions actually count have repeatedly chosen iniesta as the best midfielder of his time.
Iniesta is a better passer, better dribbler than lampard. He has better positioning, better decision making and better tactical intelligence. He's not like lampard who exposes his defense by always bursting into the box. He uses brain to play.
If we visit iniesta's and lampard's medals room, the difference will be clear. Iniesta has won significantly more than lampard in both team and individual trophies.
Iniesta has consistently performed at the highest stages where lampard has failed. The Euros for example, and the world cup. Iniesta made the best eleven of the world cup and won Best player at the euros. Best player, not best midfielder...
What is lampard's highest achievement?

All team efforts.

Bring Iniesta to come and play with Joe Cole, Malouda and Kalou, lets see whether he would not relegate Chelsea instead of driving them to achievements like Lampard.

This is the reason I highlighted Modric who is better than Iniesta and who is getting all the plaudits now that he has teammates capable of taking him to the Zenith of football. Modric could not take Spurs to promised land, is it Iniesta that would?

There is a difference between being the Messi of your team and being carried by the MSNs of your team. Lampard has made so many differences in big games that Iniesta cannot smell. The difference is that Iniesta only needs to make one contribution and his team would win 3-1 due to the efforts of others. Lampard can score two goals and his team would not advance to the next round because there is no Ronaldo/Messi/Suarez/Neymar to add to his efforts.

Iniesta is simply a carryalong. While Lampard contributes 30-40% of his teams goals and assists to won games, Iniesta only contributes 3%.

There is a difference between carrying your team to overachievement, and overachieving because your team carries you.

Iniesta cannot lift Malouda and co to anything more than Modric could lift Spurs. And Modric is better than Iniesta.

Upnepaa:
Even at 32 iniesta is still the best midfielder in the world, forget all those no goals,no assists bullshiit,
how many career goals did modric have??,zidane?? pirlo etc

All far more than Iniesta who is supposed to be the most attacking midfielder at Barca.

Upnepaa:
it is obvious the ONLY barca matches you people watch are the el clasico and the UCL,if not you would have known how barca suffered like Egyptians without moses when he was out injured for about two months,
barca were utterly unconvincing then,even with the mighty MSN

And I'm sure he was very convincing against PSG on his return.

SIRcumalot:
If it counts for anything,I did.
Surely you can see the irony in rating Modric who plays for spurs over Lampard who plays for Chelsea.

The gap between Spurs and Chelsea is smaller than the gap between Chelsea and Barcelona.

Nihilist:
Oh please.

Arsenal, Liverpool from a defensive standpoint cannot be held as a defensive success because we were breached.

Southampton are the joint 5th lowest scorers in the league so I don't see how that is a 'big game' when there is obviously no real offensive threat from them.

I won't even dignify your Spurs listing.

When did we concede against Arsenal and how. 87th minute cross from right wing after Moses had been taken off for Fabregas. Game is already won. Top defensive performance.

How did we get breached against Pool. Corner kick. Top defensive performance.

Matic has been putting in top defensive performances whether you like it or not.

Nihilist:
Yes, and NOT one of those 4 metrics is related to defensive output. Not 1.

So like I said, when a quant who has been leading the eunuch campaign based on numbers, has to resort to a qualitative approach to defend Matic, then there is a problem.

The day you show me one tackle stat that made Claude Makelele a good DM is the day I will start taking 1.7 tackles per game stats seriously.

No quant worth his salt would place any value on such nonsense that doesn't even pass basic muster of having a large enough sample size for analysis. Control of space is the only key to defensive solidity, no of tackles is just a style of play.

No of tackles is no indication of defensive solidity and defensive solidity cannot be caused by having high no of tackles. If not Aston Villa would not be relegated last season with the worst defensive record despite Gueyes record number of tackles. In stats this is called false casuality.


The greatest defensive team of all time in EPL is Chelsea in 2005 with 13 goals conceded, yet they made the least number of tackles.

I will not talk about such nonsense again cos I'm sick of repeating myself. Such stuff is for statistical neophytes to gorge over. I will not disrespect myself to that level.

SIRcumalot:
Speak for yourself mehn.
If anything it is neck and neck before this down year for Iniesta.

OK it was neck and neck last year, and now Modric shyt on him this year. So to repeat, show me who rate Iniesta over Modric the last 2 years.

Mind you this is Lampards boy season in, season out in EPL.

Nihilist:
This is a myth.

List the big games we've played this season and highlight Matic's defensive effectiveness in those games.

I've been saying all season that there is a difference between what Matic is supposed to do, and what he actually does on the pitch.

That's why in all my arguments with Ibime, I've asked specifically what he does and not he is supposed to do.

When you see a quant refusing to apply numbers to Matic's defensive output instead taking a qualitative approach, then you know there is an actual problem.

Arsenal home, Everton home, Southampton away, Spurs home, Manure home, Liverpool away.

All top defensive performances.

I only apply quants to 4 metrics - GS, ASS, PassesPerGame and Kmpergame. It would be disrespectful to my profession to lend any weight to analysing 2.3 and 1.7 tackles per game.

SIRcumalot:
Where all this neutral observers dey ? And since when.
Modric that was said to be the worst signing in Madrid is who the neutrals now sing his praise.(Luka is a fine player nothing against the man)

Nobody watching Laliga the last 2 years puts Iniesta above Modric.

Godstraight:
you are confusing me,does matic have a better pass ratio than iniesta in just this season or their entire career?,iniesta has had many successful seasons in his career enough to make him a legend, but I want to if matic passes better than him,that is constantly being peddled here are true is that

Matic passes better than Iniesta this season.

Iniestas career passing is just above average.

Google is your friend. Use it.

Godstraight:
itsnt it just this season?,or they are saying matic has more pass ratio than iniesta in their careers?

Iniestas pass ratio his whole career is nothing exceptional. He is mostly in the 60s. The top midfield dominators like Xavi were in the 100 range.

lalaboi:
Before i start. . Fabregas was outstanding today, no doubt

Just came online and to see the expected deliberately blind Hijo de putas running their mouth.

MAn.. We were on our way to drawing that game until Matic came on doing basically what Fabregas does when he comes on.

His first contribution was to create a chance on the left side for Kante to [i]buude [/i]well over the bar.

2 contribution was collecting the loose ball and starting the move that killed off the game (3goal)

Now, lets play the deliberately blind game here. . Fabregas didnt exactly play Pedro thorugh on goal did he? Now replace pedro with willian in that 2nd goal and tell me if we have a 2nd goal. That goal was made possible the brilliance of Pedro.
Matic does unlucky assist they say but tell me exactly what special thing fabregas did in this case to deserve this orgasm over an assist. You want to be blinf to Matic's contribution i will be blind over this one too.

Games Fabregas has started and shone with goals and assist. . . Sunderland, Bournemouth, Leicester, Swansea, Hull. .

Not exactly the top bunch of teams are they?

Don't get drawn into assists debate. Nobody can compete with Fabregas in that.

This is not about creativity. This is about Fabregas' physical deficiency which doesn't consistently guarantee results over the full season like Matic has been doing.

I like how Conte is doing it by saving Fabregas for the games against soft midfields where he won't be overrun. Next match against tough midfield, Matic will start. That's how you manage a squad to their full potential.

randomperson:
All this Chelsea fans... Keep deceiving yourselves. When it comes to actual ratings like best midfielder, iniesta beats lampard hands down. Iniesta is still recognized as the best midfielder in the world even at his age...

Best midfielder in the world that makes no goals, no assists and only 50 passes per game. Yeah right. Best midfielder in the world yet his club has been renamed Messi FC cos it's clear he has no influence and no expectations are placed on him. He is just there for the ride like the carryalong he has always been.


Modric who was Lampards boy has been shïtting all over him in Laliga and all neutral observers say Modric has been far better. Mind you Modric is Lampards junior in EPL oh.


This is the grace and favour of playing for a mega team with superstars that help you get to finals and win things so you can be in the conversation for awards. It is a grace that Iniesta has played under all his career. Modric who is no different a player than he was at Spurs is now living under the same grace.

raumdeuter:
The CL final won Drogba or Cech should be the MOTM
If not for those 2 where will Lampard be?

Ask who assisted them in the semi to get there.

If Drogba had not got sent off in 2008 final making John Terry to take the last penalty, who would have been the MOTM? It's just payback for wasting Lampards 2008 efforts.

raumdeuter:
Iniesta won the treble in 2015 without Xavi

Yeah because Drogba, Cech and Cole are better than MSN who score 120+ goals in a season..

In summary, nobody in football has won with more inferior players than Lampard.

When others are winning with Messi, Suarez, Neymar, Kroos, Xavi, Bale, one fool will be saying Lampard can't win anything without Cech, 34 year old Drogba and 32 year old Cole. Kai, God will not like this level of dishonesty oh.

CONTEDDICTED:
Iniesta is HoLtby with a Spanish passport and accent

Iniesta is Alexander Hleb with Spanish passport, Catalan upbringing and good fortune.

There is not a single difference in their game. Both unproductive, both visionless, but very good at dribbling, not being dispossesed and can pass the ball above average.

bykebyke:
Okay ahk.

But.


Facts only.

Upgrade indeed. Someone that would come and relegate Malouda, Joe Cole and Salomon Kalou for us while waiting for them to do all the scoring and assisting.

CONTEDDICTED:
How can a human being make less passes than Matic per game


I thought that was impossible to achieve

Matic makes above average passes per game.

The shock is not that Matic passing stats are decent, the shock is that a Eunuch whose been excused from scoring and assisting on the excuse that his only job is to recycle possession, does not recycle possession as much as even Matic who is barely above average.

bykebyke:
Can't believe people actually rate Lampard as a decent midfield.


Nigga sold his soul for goals and let others do the real midfield work.

You mean real midfield work like working hard, covering the most km per game in the EPL for 10 years in a row?

Even at the age of 34, he was still Chelseas hardest running player.

http://www.byfarthegreatestteam.com/posts/stats-chelseas-lampard-runs-the-most-and-stokes-crouch-hits-the-target/

You mean real midfield work like doing dirty work to help his midfield defend at Camp Nou and Allianz Arena in 2012 at the age of 34 knowing that the Chelsea team was vastly inferior to Barca and Bayern. . . .while others claim to be old by 32 years old.

You mean real midfield work like carrying Joe Cole, Kalou, Malouda, Anelka to trophies and deep into tournaments and being the Messi of his team while other midfielders wait for Messi to carry them along?

You mean real midfield work like 200 career assists?

You mean real midfield work like more Chelsea assists than Iniestas goals+assists for Spain and Barca combined.

We won't even talk about the 303 career goals since that is not real midfield work according to you. Maybe scoring less goals than Goalkeepers and defenders is real midfield work.

We know who does real midfield work in Barca, and his name is Xavi. The other one is a carryalong eunuch who scores no goals, makes no assists, cannot work hard defensively, and makes less passes per game than Nemanja Matic.

Wetin this woman dey sing sef? I've heard of mumble rap but is this mumble RnB?