₦airaland Forum

chukwudi44: The word trinity is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.but the concept of trinity is explined in the bible.it was also explicitly taught by the apostolic fathers and other church fathers who had the opportunity of hearing from the apostles.By simple definition,trinity is defined as stated below;

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις):[1] the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι).

This was the definition given by those who coined the term.Any other view about the God head should be given another nomenclature as this one is already taken.

Oboy the latest is that the trinity dogma has been modified....its no longer 3 divine persons..it is now 1 person manifesting in 3 different ways........

Na wahala this doctrine don give mankind no be small.......

chukwudi44: Except you mean to tell me that the writer of 2 kings was drunk I won't agree with you

Oh he wasn't drunk....

Because if we assume he was drunk,then we'll have to still assume Jesus was drunker....

But God forbid!!!!

If u'll do a lil research u culd actually understand what the writer of 2kings meant by heaven.....

It was definitly not the heaven Jesus descended from that elijah ascended into....

Hope u get my point??

Jesus definitly knew elijah didn't go to the heaven we all know....

Please I beg u,elijah didn't go to heaven.....

chukwudi44: This was the exact question posed to bishop nestor of constantinopole in the council of ephesus

"The child mary carried in her womb was he man or God?" I think the answer to this question will settle it.

@ijaw kid

Since you are not a trinitarian I would rather spend my energy convincing you on Jesus's divinity but for those who claim to be trinitarians yet refuse to honour her as the mother of God on what basis rests your convictions

If u had noticed earlier I was of the opinion that all trinitarians in other to be consistent with the doctrine shuld agree with the fact that mary is the mother of GOD......

But it seems only the catholics uphold that.....
While d rest trinitarian apologists disagree...


That's why I was asking our freind here why he would believe in the trinity and not still believe that mary is the mother of GOD...

Because if Jesus is GOD incarnate(fully GOD and man @ d same time) then it means mary gave birth to GOD...

As for me I'm not a trinitarian....so I don't bother myself with all of that.....

k2039: Prove otherwise.
God,Jesus and Holyspirit are all part of the Godhead.
Jesus Christ said a lot about God being in heaven.
John 4:16.I will pray the father and He shall send you another comforter(refering to the Holy Spirit).It definitely shows three difernt people,the Father,Jesus and the Holy spirit.
John10:30.I and my Father are one(very straight forward statement,their are two differnt people,the Father and Jesus).
I beleive Jesus wasnt a superman when He was on earth,that He was really human (Hebrews4:15,Genesis3:15),I beleive His perfection was because He was filled with the Holy Spirit(Matthew4:1),and He was really close to His father while He was here on earth(Mark1:35).That was why He could tell us that we could do greater works than His.
Paraphrasing His statement will mean,If I could do it,you can do it and even more.
Just check the bible references and you will understand what I mean.
Also check Luke23:46.
Think about it,if they werent,then why should Jesu pray to Him.(Mark1:35)

U seem to believe in the trinity and @ d same time not believe in it....

Ur colleagues who are trinity adherents would never agree with u that Jesus and the Father are 2 different persons....

Infact they'll tell u Jesus is the Father(Yahweh)....

That's d issue that has been going on here on nairaland for a while.....

And they'll tell u Jesus was God on earth...fully GOD fully man @ d same time....

Goshen360: ^^^
Of-course my brother, these religious leaders had "most" made GOLD out of GOD. They had built for themselves treasure here on earth. They have built their own empire rather than building the KINGDOM. Everyman to himself. Jesus is no longer the focus our meetings. They have built with bricks/sand rather than building with STONE and worst of all, they have neglected the CORNERSTONE thinking they are building with for God. I maintain, there is no such in the Apostolic practices, where the church is centralized and all tithes commanded to one headquarters. This is one of the MAJOR root of the problem leading to the covetous activities. When we talk against them, their worshipers rather than worshipers of God will remind us they are God's anointed. God's anointed stealing people's money? This is ridiculous.

Its really ridiculous.......

What pains me most is that they'll call them DADDY after such extortion.....

its definitly lugubrious hearing such news from churches and its clerics....

But 1 thing I've come to know is that this kinda trend will stop to happen when the G.O's of these various churches start living simple lives and not gather wealth from tithes and offerings received....

The junior pastors are definitly coveteous and also want to control as much wealth as the G.O's do.......

Who wan continue to carry last ??......

hisblud: where are the so called historical records of those jesuses you spoke of?

There were definitly other Jesuses my bro....

But we know the Jesus we are talking about and who we follow.....

That is Jesus,Gods appointed son and high priest......

Niflheim: so the bigger the amount of s.hit that i flush(or pack depending on the location) is directly proportional to the number of gifts i receive in heaven right?..............then why hasn't he given the contract to his wife and kids?...................the only reason why adeboye can speak such nonsense is because he knows who he is talking to......................MUPPET BABIES LIKE KERMIT THE FROG AND MISS PIGGY!!!

Lolz

This whole issue can't be over-discussed....

God has no dealings anymore with the physical Jews or the nation of isreal.....

Frosbel did say it right when he said GOD deals with the spiritual ISREAL or the ISREAL of GOD.......

Comprising of both Jews and non-Jews........

When the great day of the almighty comes,the now nation of isreal and all other governmental systems would be crushed......

The destruction that did befall the nation of isreal in 70 C.E would be minute compared to what awaits them @ armageDdon.....

OLAADEGBU: Yes. I mean the physical nation, called the Jewish State. There are at least 10 prophecies that were fulfilled in 1948 when they returned to their own land.

For instance, Ezekiel 34:13 predicted that they would go back to their land:

"And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country"

Oboy u too delve into bible chronology??

Nice to know........

If I may ask why do u believe that those prophecies occured in the year 1948??...

Time to calculate bro.....

OLAADEGBU: WHY I AM NOT VOTING FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA

I became a citizen of this great country (USA) in 1996, and casted my first vote for President Bill Clinton, for 9 years I was a card carrying democrat like most immigrants who think America is a social democracy whose government is working much better than where we came from (Africa, Asia, Europe). I’ve been an independent for about 7 years now (I call myself a Bible Conservative).

In 2001, I went into full time ministry still a democrat. I became the marriage ministry director of my church (I taught classes and did pastoral counseling). In 2004, while counseling with a couple about to throw away a 20 year marriage (second for both of them); we encountered the law of the land which forced this couple to divorce (better financial incentive for divorce than for separation). Fired up with zeal I sought how to change the law, this led me to Nebraska Family Council (I now sit on their board). Not getting anywhere fast passing family friendly laws in a “red” state, I felt the Lord would want me to work through the community.

In 2007 (or 2006), I was introduced to an organization that seek to do exactly what I had in mind, I told the coordinator of the group that I was not interested in politics or position, but in transforming the community in the area of FAITH and FAMILY, the group was supposed to be non-political and faith based. It took a very little time for the group to lean to a political party and being faith based simply meant opening and closing meetings in prayer, not standing for biblical principles. I learned a lot from this group, saw tons of statistics that already buttressed what I know but with no data facts, and I met so many people that I believe brought a lot to the table to effect needed transformation in the black community (many are still my friend).

I resigned from the group early this year (2012) because one of us, brought up the protected class ordinance for LGBT community in the city of Omaha as a councilman, and the group would not renounce it publicly. I discovered that leadership of the group placed the assignment given to us by God as more important than the Word of God itself and righteousness in our land. There was no way I was going to be part of an organization that would not stand for righteousness publicly. Please note that the prblem in America might be exhibiting in sexual immorality of all kinds, but the fight is really, our definition of TRUTH and those willing (courageous) to stand for real truth (both in and outside the church).

Since 2006, I became very active in organizations that I believe stood for righteousness (God’s word) or used of God in the community. What I immediately noticed was a sharp contrast in the solution of each organization (to the myriads of problems) based on their ideology. If it was a black community organization, solutions and funds were always more focused on the government (city, state and federal), and large donors, if it was an organization that stood for Judeo-Christian values, solution were always based on the individual being told and accepting the truth, money came from few large donors but tons of small donors. This led me to study the bible and history, educating myself on the issues that faced our society (in this generation), where we came from, how and why we got where we are? Here are my findings;

•I discovered that America started as an idea of people who believed in a providential God and that belief is enshrined in its constitution which is a Constitutional Republic (Constitutional Republic is when people are governed by a set of laws - Democracy is when the view of majority becomes the law).
•I discovered that the bible actually said a lot about taking care of the poor (from Genesis to Revelation – particularly Leviticus and the book of Acts), and none of it referenced the government doing it, rather individuals (major reference is John 15: 1-8 ).
•I discovered that in the black community, we have more traditional/cultural Christians than true believers and the leaders of the community (mostly cultural Christians) prefer government based solution that edges on the problem, rather than going to the root of the problem (true Faith and Family structure). Which is why in my opinion there have been programs to eradicate poverty, reduce gang violence etc. for 40 years, yet it keeps coming back every 10-15 years.
•I discovered that those of us from Africa have been schooled in Marxism by our heroes, from Kwame Nkrumah to Obafemi Awolowo, to our favorite college professors, many of them resented colonization by the British and sided with Russia in the 1950s. I also discovered that no Social Democratic form of government has succeeded with taxing its citizens to the hilt; at some point taxation becomes overbearing and kills ingenuity of its citizens, since more would rely on the government than contribute to the society (Just look at Europe). I discover that social democracy deos not take human sinful nature into consideration, it's premise is that human are inherently good.
•I discovered that what made America great was a foundation based on Judeo-Christian values, its Constitutional Republic and its Free Market economic system. America is the only country in the world that has maintained one form of government since its inception. The unconstitutional transition from a Constitutional Republic to Social Democracy started with President Woodrow Wilson and the founders won’t recognize what America has now, balance of power is being muddled up, and crony capitalism is the order of the day.
For me the economc problems are actually secondary, when compared to the attack on America’s foundational values upon which it was built - Judeo-Christian Values/Principles. While the constitution of America did not have a state religion like England (where many they came from), the founders recognized the importance of Faith and the values brought by faith in the new governing system that was created. The Bible was used as a textbook in schools, for Grammar, for Civics, for history etc. Founders even had church in government buildings with military bands as choirs (go figure). Starting in the early 1900s there started to be a louder opposition to Christianity and its values.

This attack on Christianity and America’s foundational Judeo-Christian values came not only from people outside the church, churches were infiltrated with the purpose of division from within (already achieved). Those used of the devil also infiltrated the various spheres of influence, media and entertainment, educational institutions (elementary to college – would anyone believe that Harvard and Princeton where started as seminary colleges?), and the branches of government (executive, legislative and judiciary). Political correctness became the other of the day, absolute Truth became relative truth, our children now learn things contrary to God’s word and parents are intimidated or feel powerless to do anything about it. Rather than be givers (irrespective of income), a new culture of dependence was created.

As I traveled the country (US), I realized that the biblical principles I was called to teach were falling on deaf ears (lots of emotion) or what Christ call rocky or thorny soil, as a left brain person, I started to wonder what I could do. I stumbled on George Barna’s book “Faith Tribe” and it helped me sort out my audience (and individuals) when I speak. I wrote then that while 76% of Americans call themselves Christians only 9% believe the bible is infallible, this led to my own categorization of Christians;

1.Humanist Christians – they see Christianity as a book of moral codes that change with time. Human intelligence (especially definition of good) is often elevated more than the Holy Spirit, if acknowledged at all.
2.Traditional/Cultural Christians – many in this group are people born into Christianity, some came into Christianity via a church that teaches wrong or narrow doctrine. Emotion and Tradition (not Spirit and Truth) are often emphasized with this group but zero spiritual connection.
3.True Believers – those whose spirit man, has been rebirth (born-again). They believe the bible is the infallible word of God, they study and meditate on it and ask for grace to be Obedient. They are not perfect but understand God’s grace.
I personally believe that President Barak Obama exhibit the fruit of a humanist Christian while he attended a traditional church that teaches “Black liberation theology” (not found in the bible) for 20 years. Here are my reasons;

•there is a 2003 video where President Obama said “whose God, will we believe the god of Rev. Al Sharpton or the god of Dr. James Dobson” suggesting the bible is not infallible – to me this statement is reeked with ignorance (fundamental bible principle).
•during the campaign in 2007/08, President Obama not only dumped his pastor of 20 years, the person that married him and baptized his children, the person whose sermon topic inspired a book he wrote, he did so insulting his white grandmother who raised him. To me this is not a good character (someone who would do/say anything to get something - no foundation of Truth).
•upon assuming office, one of the first things was to announce that his government would not defend DOMA (defense of marriage act), a law defining marriage as a man and a woman, passed unanimously by both legislative house and signed by a democrat president.
•twice publicly, the President define salvation as collective (according to the Bible, salvation is an individual step based on grace through faith, not works) – I personally heard him say it on TV when he spoke at the Notre Dame University commencement (last year or 2 years ago).
•the President chose the money of the LGBTQ community over the foundational faith belief of the black church community, and insulting the black race equating the LGBTQ agenda with Civil Right (when it is not an immutable feature) by “evolving” on Same-Sex marriage. Still on Same-sex marriage, the President used his office (State Dept.) to make Kenya adopt Same-sex marriage in its constitution, the Nigerian government and legislative branch rejected the same offer from the US State dept.
•the President did not choose a home church in DC because he does not want his presence every Sunday to disturb the congregation; rather he gets daily devotion on tweet from pastors? Wow – what a reason to avoid the gathering of brethren.
Some might argue that Gov. Mitt. Romney is not a true believer as well, they might be right – I personally do not believe in the teaching of the Mormon Church and I do believe that the bible stands on its own; the only new revelation is one the Holy Spirit gives us, not another holy book by a human being. Having said the above, we are not voting for the Pastor-in-Chief of America, we are voting for the person whose believes (humanist Christian or Mormon) best fit the Judeo-Christian values upon which America was founded.

There is another thing that is disturbing to me, unbelievers (people who have not had a spiritual rebirth – churched or not) would not understand this, in-fact they’ll ridicule it (that’s OK by me). True believers understand that there are two spiritual kingdoms (Kingdom of darkness and kingdom of light) and the activities in both kingdoms affect our physical world. The battle in both kingdoms have been going on since the devil rebelled, the battle is for the soul of man, this why Christ came to establish the kingdom of heaven on earth, not physical but spiritual kingdom existing with power within us.

America (for those who are spiritually discerning) has been invaded by the spirit of Fear and Intimidation in the past couple of years, two people I respect call it the spirit of Jezebel (I’m not sure). What is happening in the physical realm is that, true believers, and religious people alike are intimidated and afraid to stand for God’s truth (even though they have authority and power - especially in their workplace or sphere of influence), as the kingdom of darkness unleash relative truth and every kind of sexual immorality in our world. My prayer is that we will all be like Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego who would rather go be with Christ, than bow to the fear and intimidation of the gods of this world.

For me this election is not really about the economics, even though that is important in our physical realm (spending more than we bring in is disastrous for any budget – personal or government), but what affects a nation more is the moral compass it follows and the God it chooses to serve (Psalm 33: 12).

I do not have to write this article since I know it will rub majority of my audience negatively, but I’ve never been afraid to write (or say) the Truth I believe either (see Rev. 21:5-8 ).

May heaven open the spiritual eyes of those who truly call the name of the Lord?

Remain Blessed

http://nigeriaworld.com/feature/publication/awodele/081812.html

U seem to dislike obama a lot.......


U expect godliness from politicians??

k2039: I cant stop laughing,you are so funny.
John 1:14.The word became flesh and dwelt among us.
John 1:1.In the begining was the word.............
Genesis1:1 In the begining God created.............
The last two verses made it so clear that Jesus existed before the whole creation,and Mary was not present there,so she pre-existed Mary,but for God to fulfil the plan of redemption as He said in Genesis 3:15,Jesus had to come in human form(also read hebrews4:15,so you know why He had to come as flesh).
Jesus himself made it clear while he was on earth that God the father was in heaven(Matthew7:21,Matthew10:32,their are lot of references pointing to the fact that God the father was in heaven).So explain to me how,Mary is/was the mother of God.
Mary was never the mother of God,the fact that Jesus said His Father and He are one doesnt equate to Mary being the mother of God.
If thats what your papacy is teaching you,then the papacy is wrong.Last time I checked the first pope(Peter) never said anything like Jesus being the mother of God.
I know one of the apsotles said something like 'Mary mother of our Lord',cant remember the verse but he was right anyway,since Jesus was our Lord.
But the whole point is even Mary understands that Jesus was her own Lord and Savior,and that the only reason she had to mother Him was because God needed a womb to fulfil his plan of redemption,and she was just lucky to be chosen,and I know she will be ever grateful to God for that.

Oh so are u of the opinion that God the Father and Jesus christ are 2 different persons and that Jesus christ was not GOD while on earth??

k2039: No one is disputing the fact that Mary is/was the earthly mother of Jesus,but Mary was never the mother of God.The fact that Jesus said I and my Father and one in John 10:30,doesnt equate Mary to being the mother of God.When Jesus was on earth,God the father was in Heaven,so explain how Mary became the motther of God.

The trinity doctrine is responsible for that my bro....

If I was a trinitarian I would uphold d fact that mary is the mother of God...

Why??

If Jesus while in mary's womb was GOD incarnate,and after birth was fully GOD and fully man....then what is wrong if mary is called the mother of GOD??

U can't seperate those 2 doctrines....they must go together.....

chukwudi44: Those are Jesus words......

So I want u to do a re-think and tell me where moses and elisha is or was......

Except Jesus didn't search d heavens well enough to see where elijah and all the other partriachs of old were hidi

It is now a matter of lifting up any single bible verse that appeals to you.It is obvious the two bible passages contradict each other.But the fact remains elijah was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind.

Oboy consider Jesus words and find a way to understand when d bible says elijah was taken up into heaven.....

That's d problem with u....

That scripture I quoted just hit d nail on the head that elijah isn't in heaven....

Jesus who had been in heaven just testified to that,,,,,,

Do ur home work and find out which heaven elijah went to....

Need I remind u that after that incident elijah still did pen down more prophecies and proclamations....

Do ur research bro and stop this stiff necked argument.....

Ask urself why Jesus would say no one has ascended into heaven......

Did Jesus suffer from memory loss or there is a better explanation...

As a bible student u shuld compare scriptures to conclude on a doctrine....

Thanks....

If points are clear ,u make adjustments and move on....

No one gets hurt....thanks

cyrexx: Men, thanxx a lot for your kind gesture.

let me hear the responses of nairaland christians first, if i'm not totally satisfied with their responses, i will chat you up. thanxx again

Ok sir....:-)......

But still add me up....

I'll contribute a lil here....

Na wa o.....na competition??.....

@true2God....

My dad was a witness during 1975 and he still is......

U might wanna ask why......

Jehovahs witnesses know better now.....and we practice the truth like never b4......

Which church do u attend??

Or were u a witness b4??lol

true2god: You must be a good attorney in the making. But i must tell u dat 1914, just like dec 25 or xmas day, has no biblical backin at all. U said fixing date does no harm to pple but dats not true. Do u knw the number of career dat were destroyed wen u guys predicted 1975 as the end or the date for armagdon? Do u knw the psychological impact it had on the pple dat put their hope on the dates that were erroneosly predicted? Do u actually knw that so many JW abandoned their career with the hope of a better life in paradise earth after 1975? I think u hav a limited knowledge of the impact these failed prophecies had on pple. One of your articles actually encouraged pple not to take their professions serios but to engage in active publishin work 'for the end is near'. Dats the few negetive impacts ur failed predictions had on pple.

So if u say 1914 has no scriptural backing,please can u now tell me where it came from??is it a pagan date??.....

Xmas was an exact date gotten from the birthday celebration of a pagan god as we all know......

Can u please tell me now where else other than d bible that d witnesses used to arrive @ 1914 ??....

did we use an oiuja board or a crystal ball??please tell me......


And please we deal with bible chronology not pagan fantasies.......u can't compare a stamped pagan date used to paint Jesus with biblical prophecies and chronology..........




Witnesses in the past even celebrated xmas...we left it all behind......witnesses embrace truths when they are clear and we move on.......

Xmas is commemorated,1914 its as a result of biblical calculations......besides witnesses don't commemorate that date ....do they??


Ur still dwelling on 1975.....??

If u want to remain there that's fine.....we've moved on bro........u too shuld move on

Do u want us to go back to 1975 again??

What do u want??

Jehovahs witnesses have moved past our past and we learn more....

There so many things aside this issue u raised that we upheld in the past that we no longer hold on to......

We are dynamic.....when we learn,we adjust.....

That's what I find lacking in other religious organizations........

Besides from other posts it has been made clear how 1914 came about.......

Bible chronolgy landed us @ that figure....nothing more nothing less.....thank u....

true2god: My argument here is this, if the JW GB had nullified all other dates as 'misunderstandin' why are they still stickin to their 1914 trade mark? If they are human beings that make mistakes by quotin and giving bogus date as an interpertation to the fulfilment of bible prophecy, nullified other dates as 'mistakes' and upheld 1914 as truth, wats the rationale behind retaining 1914? Is it not the same 'research' that gave right to 1914 gave right to other nullified dates? Unless u dnt want to admit the inconsistencies in ur doctrines, JW r renouned for. Admitted, pple make mistakes but had there been anytime JW GB aplogiz for their mistakes? The ansa is No. If someone cannot aplogiz for mistakes dat shws dat hes bent on continue makin the same mistakes. If u want to be honest hw r u sure they wont change some of their present beliefs in 5 yr time. Anyway u r not in the position to ansa because wat u r meant to accept as true or false is handed down to u frm brooklyn, NY.

I can see....all u want us if for the witnesses to crawl down to the media and apologize.....isn't it??

Can u please pick out one belief that u tink might be adjusted in times to come??

Like I said bible prophecies which are soon to be fulfilled gets clearer each passing day...

What u fail to know is that as events unfold d witnesses go back to do more home work...

Its not like we swindle people or make money out of these.....neither do we kill people in the course of our perusing into bible chronology....

Our drive is the same drive d apostles had who really wanted to know about the times and seasons.......

No witness today would knock @ ur door and start talkin about 19 this and that.....

Those are by-gones......we are wiser and more knowledgeble than we were.....

We forge ahead with our perceptions being limited to bible writings....

Jehovahs witnesses are always keen to see how bible facts agree with modern day history and also past.....

That is what bible students do.....

If not we did not commit any crime.....did we??

U ofcus know how much we've delved into biblical prophecies concerning d book of daniel and revelation....its all our insatiable drive for truths found in d scriptures......

We don't dream nor see visions like I'v always made it known on this post.....

We just peer into what d bible has in store for mankind.....remember even angels are interested too....

U guys are taking this whole date issue like its a do or die affair....

There are many reasons why I associate with the witnesses and 1914 is not even one of them.....there are far more important truths the witnesses uphold and practice that has dragged many to them.........

there's one thing every witness knows and understands::::

And that is:::::::::::WE ARE DEEP INTO THE LASTDAYS and that we are @ d verge of this system of thingsz.....and this we preach day and night......

We know for certain that Gods son Jesus has been enthroned as king and soon he'll do away with d political system and wickedness in general..........this are facts we are ever sure of.........

U can testify to that......

chukwudi44: At first you said the dead are awaiting the arch angels call but when confronted with the fact of moses's resurrection you are now saying no one has ascended into heaven.Any way let's look @ the passage below to see how elijah ascended into heaven.

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2 Kings 2:1-20
New International Version (NIV)

Elijah Taken Up to Heaven

2 When the Lord was about to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind, Elijah and Elisha were on their way from Gilgal. 2 Elijah said to Elisha, “Stay here; the Lord has sent me to Bethel.”

But Elisha said, “As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you.” So they went down to Bethel.

3 The company of the prophets at Bethel came out to Elisha and asked, “Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today?”

“Yes, I know,” Elisha replied, “so be quiet.”

4 Then Elijah said to him, “Stay here, Elisha; the Lord has sent me to Jericho. ”

And he replied, “As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you.” So they went to Jericho.

5 The company of the prophets at Jericho went up to Elisha and asked him, “Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today?”

“Yes, I know,” he replied, “so be quiet.”

6 Then Elijah said to him, “Stay here; the Lord has sent me to the Jordan.”

And he replied, “As surely as the Lord lives and as you live, I will not leave you.” So the two of them walked on.

7 Fifty men from the company of the prophets went and stood at a distance, facing the place where Elijah and Elisha had stopped at the Jordan.

8 Elijah took his cloak, rolled it up and struck the water with it. The water divided

to the right and to the left, and the two of them crossed over on dry

ground.

9 When they had crossed, Elijah said to Elisha, “Tell me, what can I do for you before I am taken from you?”

“Let me inherit a double portion of your spirit,” Elisha replied.

10 “You have asked a difficult thing,” Elijah said, “yet if you see me when I am taken from you, it will be yours—otherwise, it will not.”

11 As they were walking along and talking together, suddenly a chariot of fire

and horses of fire appeared and separated the two of them, and Elijah went up to heaven

in a whirlwind. 12 Elisha saw this and cried out, “My father! My father! The chariots

and horsemen of Israel!” And Elisha saw him no more. Then he took hold of his garment and tore

it in two.

Obviously from the passage above elijah has sinced been in heaven from where he and moses descended from during the ressurection

How does ur conclusion agree with Jesus's true words recorded @ john 3:13

13 No one has ever gone into
heaven except the one who came from heaven
—the Son of Man.....


Those are Jesus words......

So I want u to do a re-think and tell me where moses and elisha is or was......

Except Jesus didn't search d heavens well enough to see where elijah and all the other partriachs of old were hiding b4 he descended from the heavens...lol

Cyrexxx boy.....can we chat on yahoo....??

Can't write much here....

Add me up.@

Wagskehinde@yahoo.com

We can chat well and discuss this pertinent issues..

true2god: Ijawkid pls r u now sayin dat JW now have a better understandin of Bible chronology unlike before that they didnt hav a good understanding? Do u knw the millions of pple dat were misled owing to this gross misunderstanding? Wat apology did they offer for their errors? Wat is the tendency dat wat they believe today as truth wont be false tomorrow? The fact is that before u release any info to the public u must do a good scrutiny and ensure that wat u r tellin the publc is true. My bone of contention is that if other dates that the JW GB fixed had been assumed false, why are they still keepin to the 1914 dogma. If 1918; 1925; 1975; 1984 had all bein nullified as 'misunderstandin', wat about 1914?

Ohhhh!!!!

Are u waiting for a public apology??

Just tell me...

Is that what u want??

Many persons who were witnesses back then are still witnesses till date....

Why u may ask.....

Because in all the end is what each and every1 was anticipating....which in itself was not bad........

Now we understand perfectly that no one knows d day and hour....the scriptures helped us.......

But not withstanding we preach about armageddon and d end.......

That is it........!!!!!!

I can see that its all about those dates....


If the witnesses have grown past those dates then u shuld too.......

So an apology would have made u less angry with the witnesses?

There are certain truths and facts that the witnesses can and will never change....

Doctrines like the trinity,hell fire,purgatory,celebration of xmas, etc are stands we can never change......

But as far as prophecies in d bible are concerned continous learning takes place....

As we speak there are definitly prophecies in d bible that must take place b4 d end comes...

And d witnesses observe and understand better each passing day.......

So thank u,!!!!!!!!!!

@ola.......I see that ur good @ attacking the witnesses,....that's ok......

But truthfully I'll tell u today,that I have never seen a worldwide organization that follows every of Jesus's footsteps like the witnesses do....

Despite the fact that we had some flaws regarding our understandings of some bible prophecies,I still can't find any group that'll will devote there time and energy into d preaching and warning work like. The witnesses.....I am yet to see........

A group of christians who will choose to remain neutral to d worlds affairs and preach unrelentlessly to persons globally has got to be following Christ who engaged in this same warning and preaching work......

I can truthfully tell u that organized christianity lost its unity after all the 1st century christians passed away....

But I'm sure that b4 the world ends there must be a true religion....

Jehovahs witnesses day in day out strive to meet up with all of the bibles standards and words of Jesus.....

We are still on that race........

Ur a deeper lifer....I found out in one of ur posts.........

And I saw u trying to defend ur church...its normal...

The witnesses aint prophets in the way u think,we are prophets in the sense that we warn the wicked......

Just like noah,jeremiah,Jesus and d apostles we warn mankind of what is to come as we've read from the bible not from a dream....

OLAADEGBU: If the bolded above is the case what do you say about what your Society published in one of their earlier magazines that I quote below?

"So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come? . . . He had a "prophet" to warn them. This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah’s Christian witnesses. . . Of course, it is easy to say that this group acts as a "prophet" of God. It is another thing to prove it. The only way that this can be done is to review the record. What does it show?" —The Watchtower, April 1, 1972, p. 197

http://4jehovah.org/images/stories/downloads/jehovahs_witness/prophecy/wt-4-1-1972-p197.pdf

Do you guys all speak with one voice at all or is it that you have changed your beliefs?

A prophet is a teacher and one who warns the wicked about an imminent destruction isn't it??

Witnesses teach and preach d goodnews don't we??

We preach 24/7 about armageddon and anything concerning it.......

I'm happy that d watchtower u quoted talked about prophets who engage in warning the populace about Gods coming anger on the wicked.....

That's exactly what d witnesses do...

Has there been anytime a witness knocks on d door of anybody and deliberate on frivolities??

We talk about the lastdays and armageddon....

We warn peoples......

Round d world that's what witnesses do....

We are known for talking about the end times like no other organization....

If I warn the nations of today that an impending destruction is soon to befall the earth,what would u call me??

Like I said it depends on how u wanna define a prophet.......

We are not prophets in the sense of waking up one morning and saying God spoke to us,or we had a vision or that we dreamnt....NOOO!!!!!!!!!!.........

We study prophecies in d bible,try to decipher what they mean for our times and warn d public.....

I have not seen any organization that warns governments and world rulers of what Gods kingdom would do to human governments like the witnesses do......we are out spoken,we warn people,we preach about armageddon...


One who declares Yahwehs warnings to the wicked is a prophet.......

Thank u!!!!!!!

If our understanding of bible calculations had some errors like I said we go back to the same bible,match it with world occurences and see where we lacked understanding......

And so our knowledge grows further....

Anything that has to do with the lastdays and what will culminate to Christs return is what is of utmost concern to us......nothing more nothing less.......

OLAADEGBU: That these are the last days or the unfulfilled prophecies are not the bone of contention on this thread. The Lord Jesus Christ did not give an exact time, date or year. If your Society that is claimed to be the only Prophet of God are stating dates in their past failed prophecies what does that make them?

If witnesses in d past due to lil mis-understanding of bible chronology drew into conclusion when an end will come how does that make them false prophets??

Today we are convinced from the scriptures that no one knows d day and hour not even Jesus........

If u choose to dwell on the mistakes of witnesses and dragging them down till today ur definitly on ur own........

Witnesses adjust to bible understanding when its clear....we aint stiff necked ........

Or wuld u rather want us to hug and romance past understandings and wallow in them??

Like I told u,Jehovahs witnesses are not prophets....we are bible students.......

Don't u get it??

We are not prophets........

we observe and study d bible to see how they apply to our times......

Isn't that what a bible student does??

chukwudi44: Ol boy did moses rise from the dead or not? Is he still in the grave?all this talk about saints lying in the grave and awaiting the arch angels call is balderdash.Even if you choose not to believe the vision of judas macabees you should @ least believe the gospels.The saints in heaven can and are interceding for us.The catholic church have hundreds of thousands of postumous miraculous intervention by its saints.

Ok let's ask u..

Did moses rise from d dead?

Where is moses??

OLAADEGBU: While it may be true that some do idolise Pastor Kumuyi but don't say what you don't know. He is doing his best to discourage us from doing idolising him. I once witnessed him telling off the congregation who were missed him after being away abroad for some missionary trips. He told us off by saying that something to the effect that: 'Am I God'? He made us realise that whether he is around or not we should come to church to worship God and not man.

If you have personal problems with the church I'll advise you to sort it out instead amicably instead of this campaign of calumny.

Oh!!!!!!!

So ur a deeper lifer??

That's cool.......

Series22: He is a former Man of God.. Ex-Man of God turn politician

But I thought christians were to engage in politics na.......

Abi e don change??

If adeboye supports politicians what is wrong if his colleague becomes 1...??

frosbel: I confess I went on an 'attack' on ISLAM because of the non-stop bomb attacks , boko haram, killing of Christians and large scale intolerance in places like Pakistan , massacring of my Igbo people in the North in the 60s though I was not born at the time, the horrific tales were too evil to even contemplate.

I am not proud of my actions at the time and offered an apology to all Muslims.

Recently I almost went back to my old ways due to a ban put on me for politely stating facts on the ISLAM board by Brother maclatunji

Muslims are not my enemy.

As for JWs, Catholics etc , I do not believe in any denomination, including deeper life, RCCG --- I believe in the ONE TRUE church of GOD which is the body of Christ.

The proliferation of over a million denominations is bringing the name of Christ into disrepute and smacks off as division, something Christ is very much against.

So ur denominationless right??

Just asking........

I hope some of ur write ups aint from the research work done by other bible scholars??

Mr_Anony: True talk my brother, I am gradually getting weary of the aimless ramblings myself. however the thing I can't stand is when someone just throws blasphemy around like it's nothing

.....by the way, why do people keep calling me Annoy sef?

Lmao......

I sometimes mite want to believe that even u urself would 1 day mistakenly spell ""anony"" as ""annoy"".....

Lol......

@olaadegbu.....

Yeah I'm back...

I will like to hear ur comments on this scripture...

1 corinthians 11:1..........

##New International Version (©1984)
Follow my example, as I follow the example of
Christ.

##New Living Translation (©2007)
And you should imitate me, just as I imitate
Christ.

##English Standard Version (©2001)
Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.

##New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Be imitators of me, just as I also am of Christ.


##King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of
Christ.
......


Are we followers of the apostle paul or followers of Christ??

Would paul be wrong when he said "" BE YE FOLLOWERS OF ME,even as I also am of CHRIST""??

Many skeptics quote this scripture to claim paul was presumpteous and gathering followers for himself...but as a bible student u know what paul meant.....

My point:::::::

If the early christians were following or imitating paul they were in the long run following or imitating Christ who's head of paul....

I don't know if ur getting my point??

Witnesses of Jesus are @ the end of the day Yahwehs witnesses.....since Yahweh is head of Christ.....Yahweh is the ultimate......the apex.....

This is why paul went further to stress this fact @ 1 corinthians 11:3....

##GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
However, I want you to realize that Christ has
authority over every man, a husband has
authority over his wife, and God has authority
over Christ.


##King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
But I would have you know, that the head of
every man is Christ; and the head of the
woman is the man; and the head of Christ is
God........

Jehovahs witnesses never joke with this principle of headship......

We love and Follow Christ....but we never neglect the head of Christ.......

Being Jehovahs witnesses only encompasses everything about 1 being a follower of Christ...

After all we are all following Christ to get to the Father....

Abi no be so??

I'm a lil busy now....as soon as I'm thru with what I'm doing I'ma give u an instance that can be compared to what we are talking about......

I wanna let u know that Jesus being preached about,is all to get to the 1 who sent him.....