₦airaland Forum

Logicbwoy: See this liar....the bible had a flat earth mentality!

Daniel 4:7-8, "I saw a tree of great height at the center of the world. It was large and strong, with its top touching the heavens, and it could be seen from the ends of the earth." This was allegedly an inspired dream, yet it conveys a flat-earth concept, because no matter how tall a tree would be, people on the other side of a spherical earth could not see it.

Matthew 4:8, "The devil took him (Jesus) to a very high mountain and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence...." The only plausible reason for the "very high mountain" was that the altitude would make it possible to see to the ends of the earth. Only on a flat earth would this be remotely possible, so the New Testament writers were as ignorant as the Old.

In Genesis 11:4, the people wanted to build a tower up to heaven. If you look at the graphics above, you can see their concept of heavenly bodies under the dome, not all that far away. Presumably, the Lord was afraid they would be able to accomplish their plan, so he caused them to speak various languages. This, of course, is not the reason people speak different languages, but nothing is too fantastic for the ignorant to believe

Now I can understand why u became an atheist....u barely understand scriptures....

Now who told u the tree mentioned in daniel was a literal tree??

I wan nearly call u mumu now now.....lol....

So since u've been reading that verse with the thought that the tree mentioned there was a literal tree....sorry for u......

Let me get u my scriptures........

Ur so myopic as to bible reasoning.....

OLAADEGBU: Consider these verses of Scripture:

"Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour" (Isaiah 43:10-11).

"Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me" (Hosea 13:4).

Would Jesus still be your Lord and personal saviour according to the highlighted words above?

What is Lord or who is a Lord??

Witnesses as I know recognize Jesus as there LORD.....don't get it twisted.....don't spread rumours.....

From all our discussions u shulda realized that..

1 corinthians 11:3 explains that....

Incase u've forgotten....

Jesus is Lord over man and d church.....

Get that??

It is u who will have a problem with agreeing with the fact that Jesus has a Lord and God over him.....

Delafruita: did you go to school at all?how would you say the early church believed in a round earth when there such thinking only came into the consciousness of men with the advent of voyages by sailors?when vasco da gama set out on his voyage,his major aim was to prove the world was round.his men feared they will get to the end and fall off.i wont indulge your ignorance further by schooling you.perhaps the early church also knew the earth revolved round the sun and that the sun was the center of the universe

The early christians who read d hebrew scriptures knew d earth was round and hanging on nothing.....


Jews knew that......

For any Jew who read d scriptures knew that.....

The book of isaiah and Job confirms that.......

When I mean the early church I don't mean d catholics...I mean the apostles and 1st century christians....

If u had read ur bible well and not be a skeptic u wuld have known that d bible scientifically was and is accurate even b4 u and ur fore fathers were born.....

Logicbwoy: The breath of life could be anything...eg oxygen......keep peddling nonsense

Do u see oxygen??

D life force in a human is d spirit....

What's propels the human life is the air we breath......abi??

The greek word for spirit signifies wind,the air........

We are both right if u understand what I mean....

U just always wana be on the opposing side...:-)

Logicbwoy: A nurse is not paid to preach.

This is how Nigerians embarrass us abroad

..Lol..

I agree with u

Logicbwoy: Now find the bible quotes that support that nonsense

Even if I show u u go gree??

Well I dnt believe in the triune formular of soul,spirit and body...

All I am saying is that d soul is the individual person(d soul that sinneth dies)..

While d spirit is d breath of life..

It seems u never read d book of genesis when u were a christian..lol

@poster.....

The soul is d individual while d spirit is the breath of life in that individual....

Okpari!!!!!!!!!!

benodic: i will answer you with analogies so that it can make more sense to you.
spirit is like the ocean and souls are the different creatures that live in that ocean. each of those creatures are unique and different from another creature but they are all bonded together by the ocean in which they live and have their being.

if you study the human body it gives you another close analogy on how the cosmos is arranged. spirit can be likened to the blood which moves around the whole body nourishing and keeping alive the different unique individual cells in the body which can be likened to souls. the blood is pumped by the heart which can likened to the God centre from which the Holy Spirit flows sustaining and creating all life.
The Holy Spirit is the creative force of God with which God created all life and sustains all life and souls are individualized units of life that have separate identities and consciousness.

U sound correct/correct..:-)

Enigma: Without even dealing with the rest of your post, here is a selection of versions/translations that do not use "God" in 1 Timothy 3:16

NIV

ESV

ISV

Aramaic Bible in Plain English

GWT



Well, the good news ---- they are all still saying the same thing as

KJV


In other words God, as Jesus Christ, came manifest in the flesh.



EDITED

The good news is the kjv and other translations do not mean d same thing as regards 1 timothy 3:16....
Yahweh sent his son Jesus christ,He is not Jesus Christ..........

Why can't trinitarians comply with this simple truth.??

Is it that hard??

Now tell me why d kjv will presumpteously use GOD in that 1 timothy 3:16??

Then after been debunked u come here to tell me that Yahweh came as Jesus.....

Then how are they different person??

Abi u no agree with the 3 persons in 1 God theory??

Confusion here and there....

So what do u say about d holy spirit....

Is Jesus the holy spirit??

Or can we say the holy spirit is Jesus??....

Enigma: Good job here, Olaadegbu.

And tangential to the issue of Jesus Christ, i.e. God The Son as object of worship the Bible reflects this in many ways ---- except that people refuse to understand the synchronisation and the synthesis which lead to the inevitable demonstration of the Trinity. Consider the following verses, take them together and consider the implications on the "status" of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 28:19

2 Cor 13:14

Acts 15:11

Titus 2:13 (according to the predominantly accepted rendering)

Jude 1:21


One problem I have noticed with many people who struggle to understand or especially to accept God as Trinity (The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit) is that they are not able to get over the particular mental obstacle of just looking at Jesus and picturing Him solely in the flesh as a human being. In reality, they have not fully engaged with the issue of incarnation and they have not fully understood the ramifications of ascension in particular in addition of course to resurrection.

This is why they struggle when you quote that 1 Timothy 3:16

(*Even if you go with the NIV's "He", you will still end with the same result)

** This one is for those who accuse us of cop-out when we speak of "mystery" --- God as 'mystery' and The Trinity as 'mystery'.

Engima this research is for u incase u haven't done it urself.......

Read......


1 Timothy 3:16
"Great is the mystery of godliness. God was
manifested in the flesh." KJV
The Trinitarian Claim
Trinitarians claim this verse identifies
Jesus as "God" because it says "God was
manifested in the flesh."
Examination of the Evidence
Modern translations do not read, "God" at 1
Timothy 3:16. Trinitarians make this
particular claim by quoting from the King
James Version. Despite the fact that
scholars agree that the KJV reading is a
corruption, Trinitarians, even those who
normally do not read the KJV, continue to
cherry-pick this verse from the KJV.
When the Christological controversies
were occurring in the fourth century, we
do not see even one solitary person making
a reference to this passage as evidence
for the deity of Christ. This undeniably
proves it was unknown to them. If indeed 1
Timothy 3:16 really said "God was manifest
in the flesh," we can most definitely be
sure this passage would have most been
brought forward as "Exhibit A." Yet, not
one soul mentions it even though this
passage more than any other would have
supported the teaching that the incarnate
Christ was "God." But the facts remain as
they are and it was never mentioned once
in the myriads of documentation that exist
illustrating what was argued in these
debates. There is a good reason that no one
in the fourth century church ever
mentioned the passage. The word "God" did
not appear in 1 Timothy 3:16 until much
later. It first appeared in manuscripts
after Trinitarian dogma was fully
developed and canonized and is an obvious
later alteration. The oldest and best
manuscripts do not have the word
"God" (theos) in 1 Timothy 3:16 which is
why modern Bible translations do not have
the word "God" at 1 Timothy 3:16 either.
1. Contemporary Trinitarian Translation
Scholars
Now because this verse is known to be a
scribal error, contemporary Trinitarian
Greek scholars, who have access to
numerous manuscripts, have not been able
to perpetuate this error any longer into
English translations, despite the passions
of some who desire the word "God" to
appear in this verse at the expense of
truth. Let us look at some of the major
translations of this passage and note how
Trinitarian Greek scholars themselves
acknowledged the scribal error:
"He appeared in a body" (NIV)
"He who was manifested in the
flesh" (ASV)
"He who was revealed in the
flesh" (NASB)
"He was manifested in the
flesh" (RSV)
"Which was manifested in the
flesh" (Douey-Rheims)
"Who was manifested in the
flesh" (NAB)"
Quite plainly, Trinitarian translation
scholars are admitting this version of the
verse is not authentic. One then wonders
why Trinitarians so often continue to
appeal to it.


For more check up this link..........


www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/verses/1Tim3_16.html

Enigma: Good job here, Olaadegbu.

And tangential to the issue of Jesus Christ, i.e. God The Son as object of worship the Bible reflects this in many ways ---- except that people refuse to understand the synchronisation and the synthesis which lead to the inevitable demonstration of the Trinity. Consider the following verses, take them together and consider the implications on the "status" of Jesus Christ.

Matthew 28:19

2 Cor 13:14

Acts 15:11

Titus 2:13 (according to the predominantly accepted rendering)

Jude 1:21


One problem I have noticed with many people who struggle to understand or especially to accept God as Trinity (The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit) is that they are not able to get over the particular mental obstacle of just looking at Jesus and picturing Him solely in the flesh as a human being. In reality, they have not fully engaged with the issue of incarnation and they have not fully understood the ramifications of ascension in particular in addition of course to resurrection.

This is why they struggle when you quote that 1 Timothy 3:16

(*Even if you go with the NIV's "He", you will still end with the same result)

** This one is for those who accuse us of cop-out when we speak of "mystery" --- God as 'mystery' and The Trinity as 'mystery'.

Oboy use other translations to check up ur 1timothy 3:16.....the kjv and the niv spuriously translated that verse.......



There is no mystery about knowing God....u guys invented the mystery to meet up with pagan religion.......

Answer the question up there I asked olaadegbu......

Is JESUS christ the holy spirit??

From olaadegbu's theory A=B=C(ofcus never does d bible say that the holy spirit is a God or God..if there is 1 verse that explicitly says that show me), but 1corinthians 11:3 also tells us that. A>B but that C is no where to be found...........

I tire for ona......

Go and ask constantine,he'll tell u why this dogma exists today.....

If not for him ur brain would have been like that of the Jews and Jesus who worshipped Yahweh.......

OLAADEGBU: If my analogy is lost on you it's because you've made up your mind without considering the facts. It is elementary calculations that is lost on you and don't blame me for that.

Let me use the same logic to dissect John 1:1 to see who Jesus Christ really is if you truly take the word of God as your final authority.

Let us consider this:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." (John 1:1).

The simple logic of this verse can be summed up as thus:

THE WORD = GOD

In John 1:14 it states:

"The Word became flesh, and dwelt among us."

From these verses we can deduce the following:

JESUS CHRIST = THE WORD

Simple logic declares that

if

A = B,

and

B = C,

then

A = C.

Therefore, since

JESUS CHRIST = THE WORD

and

THE WORD = GOD,

then

JESUS CHRIST = GOD

QED.

In essence ur also saying that the holy spirit = JESUS.....right??

If A=B=C then u also mean JESUS was the holyspirit too.....

Hope u see how useless ur analogy is........

Think well o b4 u bring mathematics into the bible.......

plaetton: First, the catholic church is the mother church of christianity. If the catholic dna is faulty, then her numerous offsprings cannot be any thing different from her. Pls do not deny your mother.
Repudiating the catholic church is an acknowledgement that the holy sea is the crazy mother of your clearly disfunctional christian family.

Might I also remind you that the first century christians and people did not know about the ATOMS and neither did they know that GERMS were the cause of disease.
Are the first century mindsets and knowhow the kind from which you should imitate and mould your worldview?
Pls answer.

U see urself??

The 1st century christians didn't know about atoms but they were well aware of the fact that the earth was round and was hanging on nothing.........

Abi??

the 1st century christians were d 1st real true chistians to ever exist and they play an integral role in the formation of christianity.....

The apostles upheld creation not evolution....

So why shuld I follow the catholics like mumu??

Logicbwoy: Catholic churches do not appoint gay pastors. The first denomination was the catholic chruch. That is why in the past they were saying that catholics were the only christians

So the 1st century christians were catholics??

Right??

There was a 1st century church,organized religion back then in d 1st century......

And the principles those guys laid are the ones I follow ....not the catholics....

Soon u'll be the 1st to attack this same catholics for carrying out d crusade......

Evolution is not a bible teaching...it refutes the creation account......so I refuse to accept it.......

May I remind u that d 1st church that ever existed in jerusalem never knew aÑything about evolution....

The 1st century christians never doubted d creation account......

The Jews believed in the creation account....

So who da hell do u think made catholics the yard stick for modern christians to measure up to??

Oboy take time o.......

If some modern christians believe in d evolution theory(THEORY) then it isn't my business.....after all it is still those same churches that appoint gay priests and bishops....

There whole knowledge and respect for d bible is now distorted....
They can't distinguish between right and wrong.....

Are thÓse d kinda christians I shuld imitate??

Logicbwoy: Millions of christians have moved past this foolishness of debating evolution. Evolution is taught in catholic schools. The Archbishop of Cantebury supports evolution. The Anglican church supports evolution. Evolution is taught in schools. Modern day orthodox Jews support evolution. Modern day conservative Jews support evolution. Evolution is taught in schools in ALL developed countries.

Evolution should not be debated but alas! we have backyard protestant and pentecostal churches (Especially the ones in which pastors have maybacjs and private jets) who still reject evolution. It comes as no suprise as many "black" churches in the USA do not accept evolution. Ironically, the churches that have been existing close to the beginning of christianity accept evolution but the ones formed recently choose not to.


When will my fellow Nigerians on Niaraland wake up and move into the 21st century? If you have time and internet connection, you have no excuse to be ignorant about evolution. Stop this ignorance.

Then return back to the churches,,.....

Isn't that what u want??

Isn't that what is giving u joy??

Seeing christians gradually leaving bible tenets and clinging to follies seems to make u glad...


In other words u are also alluding that d catholics and anglicans in the western world have discarded the creation account....right??

Since they now(from ur report) espouce d evolution theory I guess ur now satisfied and can return back to the churches....

Or mayb u still aint satisfied.....

U want them to finally believe there is no God.......

Abi??


If not for d whites would u ever have heard of the evolution theory??

Think for a second.........

plaetton: Hmmm.
Am disappointed. I was hoping that some of our most vocal religious brethren would come on this post to explain how sin, adam's sin, causes us to suffer disease and death.
Oh well,I guess no takers.

Yawn.

Even if we explain from now till forever u'll never wanna reason d bible's way.....

I asked ya brother atheist why we get old,but answers I didn't get.....

Read d bible to know why we are in this mess u guys will say NOOO........

What do u want us to do??

Time is what will teach u guys

plaetton: First,you never attempted to answer the question(Typical).
And second to say that evolution is a myth and that the theory of evolution is delusional displays a surprising amount of ignorance bordering on.......(I dont want to say the word).

Evolution is a process, a constant and continnueing process. There is no finality to it. It is an eternal process. Change is the only constant in the universe.
As such, no point in the process is or can be deemed to be the attainment of perfection.

Creation, on the other hand , supposes a finished process, an end-product, a finality.
The end-product is supposed to be flawless.

Eternal process??

I thought u guys never believed in eternity......

Oh so u do??

Very good......

suwailad: Is jehovah the same as Jesus? I have some questions to ask

How can they be d same??

Did the prophets tell us that Yahweh was the 1 coming to d earth??

MyJoe: And, manmustwac, how do I deal with the robots stressing me in the Watchtower thread?

Oboy who dey disturb u?....lol....

OLAADEGBU: Is it not mathematically correct? If it is then Romans 1:20 gives you no excuse to plead ignorance to the divine nature of the Godhead.

Lol.....

And who d hell told u the holy spirit is part of the GODhead??

Did romans1:20 also record that or the nicean creed instigated that??

Oboy be careful o....

If the bible had that formula written boldly we won't be here arguing....

Especially when d whole world of christendom knows how d trinity dogma started.....

Worship the only true GOD Jesus told satan about..........

After all Jesus worshiped him too....

So why shuldnt I imitate Jesus.......

I follow Jesus's every move and action..

Omolola1: Right now am confused!

I attended their congregation twice, and they preach a totally different doctrine but makes sense.

They believe there is no hell, that Jehovah is a loving God who would never torment his children, but punish them 4 their sins, which is death! The wages of sin is death as the bible say.
In one of their meetings, the preacher used Lazarus as an example, when Jesus brought him back to life, he never gave any description about heaven or hell! (this makes sense)
they seem to av tangible points which leaves me confused!

I attend redeem. Personally, i believe in personal relatnshp with God, reading the bible and understanding it, loving one's neigbour and obeyng God's commandment ar the keys to eternal life.

Really want to know your thoughts on this.

Witnesses teach d truth about HELL and how d bible views it....

They are correct.....

I espouse there stance on there repudiating d false pagan hell fire dogma.......

And ofcus the logical question u heard is infact sometin to deliberate on....

When lazaruz was ressurected did he give any news or story of hellfire or heaven.??

Good question....

Unlike d many fraudulent stories we hear of persons who claim to had visited hellfire after going thru some trance.....

I'm not going to decide for u where to go or worship....

Most important thing is read ur bible.....the bible explains itself.....

OLAADEGBU: Ask them pertinent questions. Do they receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour? Who is Jesus Christ to them? Answers to these questions and more will help you to discover whether they are cults or true Christians.

Ofcus witnesses accept Jesus as there LORD and saviour......

When did they ever tell u they didn't??

Make u no dey spread rumour o.......

If they don't accept Jesus as there Lord $ personal saviour why on earth will they imitate the same Jesus and obey his words to preach until the kingdom comes??

U think say to accept Jesus as Lord $ personal saviour na for mouth??

Delafruita: this is ridiculous.so the reason atheists dont rob or despoil is because they were created in god's image.i thought everyone was created in god's image.i thought the bokoharam fools were created in god's image,i thought the corrupt politicians were created in god's image.i thought serial killers,padeophiles,armed robbers were also created in god's image

The bokoharams would never want d good in them to manifest....

Atheists who practice good acts by default allow the good in them which is as a result of there being in Gods image to manifest.....

If not why on earth will an atheist learn to LOVE......??

And it'll/ mite interest u to know that God in his all knowing state,will reward sincere hearted atheist one way or the other.....

He reads d heart....there r definitly some atheists who really wanna know if a God really exists or not..and who are doing all they can not stop the thought of a God into there hearts.........

Pray ur in that group.....

cyrexx: yes, imaginary and i am right

but your govt has been arresting many of you religionists when you rape and murder. atheists dont do that, its you religionists

now i know why religionists will never understand what it means to be good for goodness sake, not because of fear of punishment or want of imaginary heavenly reward. atheists like me are doing good morally because it the good thing to do, not because we want reward or fear punishment. get that into your head.

you guys cant think for themselves, you guys ju§t do whatever u like wÍth no sense of accontability despite what your religion teaches and still expect to go your imaginary heaven when you repent. hypocrites

But d earlier u realize these truths d better.......wether u choose to agree or not religion is man- made mind control mechanisms. free your mind from mental slavery

U fail to understand that the best standard for goodness is goodness from Gods stand point.....

The only reason why atheists sometimes are good in d general sense is even because u guys were created in Gods image......

But even that u fail to know.....

And stop callin heaven heaven heaven.....
What ever happened to the earth??......

The bible is what controls me not religion.......

In this world we must be under d control of something or somebody....

U think ur free frm religion,but ur been controlled by some other thing......

Either way we all are being controlled...

It just depends on what controls u........

So u mean atheists don't engage in vile acts right??

Now I knw u guys are a religion....how would u knw what ur fellows do outside nigeria??

Can u vouch for ur fellow atheists worldwide??

Ño worry time go tell.........

tobechi20: Not even one member, at least ur younger one. Not gud ...try harder...

Isn't that gonna be tantamount to evangelizing??

Leave ya family alone......

Why do u wanna convert them??

Do u need disciples??

cyrexx: .

Imaginery right??

But ur govt will still arrest when u rape and commit murder......

Now I know why atheists always wanna be atheist......

You guys wanna ju§t do whatever u like wÍth no sense of accontability......

But d earlier u realize these truths d better.......wether u choose to agree there is sin or not,the end of the story is we will all be judged by Jah thru his §on Jesu§,.......

Ptolomeus: Excuse you.
Abraham, Solomon, Noah, David ... and many others .... WERE ADULTERERS and FORNICATORS
You think they did not go to heaven?
You read the Bible?

They did not go to heaven....

Show me where it says they went to heaven..........quÍkly....

Take note:::

If an individual Ùnrepentantly and perpetually engages in adultery And immorality,and then end actually catches up with such individuals they'll not inherit Gods kingdom....

Hope I am clear??

OLAADEGBU: 1 x 1 x 1 = 1

Therefore,

Father x Son x Holy Spirit = God. Simples

Lol....

CheIiiiii.....

God don turn to mathematical entity..........

SMH!!!!!!!!!!......

Well keep believing in the trinity dogma.....

Jesus @ the end will ask u where u got that absurd formula from.......

OLAADEGBU: What God was essentially saying in Hebrews 1:6 was that all angels are commanded to worship the true God of creation. And worship here means to bow down to the will of their creator God. If they are to bow down and worship their Creator who are we to question or read another meaning to it? Only God deserves to be worshipped because He is both our Creator and our redeemer and if you don't bow to Him now you will bow to Him on the last day.

Lol.....

Oboy I believe in the messiah Jesus Christ and that he is my master.....

Ofcus I pay homage to my LOrd Jesus....

But to be sincere I render exclusive devotion to Yahweh the Father and God of Christ Jesus......

I will everly continue to worship the God Jesus worshipped........

The God of Jesus is my God.......

I can't actually worship 2 Gods........that wuld be tantamount to idolatry.....

Meanwhile I just hope u read thru my exegesis conscientiously.........

That word WORSHIP shuld nt just be used any how..............

Phillipians like I said tells u what d angels shuld do......BOW DOWN.....

The bible explains itself BRO.....

Thanks.....

Area_boy: @ Ijawkid

Mate, take a hike. The catholic church accepts evolution, although modified to suit them a little, it still hovers around the same general idea.

Your style of Christianity come from Catholicism. you should listen when they speak. They gave u the bible u use.

You are a dreamer.......

So because the catholics accept evolution so I shuld accept it.........

The same people who slaughtered many during d crusade and burnt up persons on stakes for possessing d same bible u claim they own......

Sorry bro....

The catholics aint my yard stick for accepting truths or repudiating lies.....

Ur alluding that d catholics do not believe in the creation account........

OLAADEGBU: If you had done your homework you would have discovered that I have answered this question on page 2 of this thread. Answer my kweshun.

Good....

I am a christian.....

I support ur stance on d fact that obama aint a christian........

Neither are political leaders true christians......

They all follow a common trend....