₦airaland Forum

Psalm 109 is a messianic psalm. i.e it's talking about Jesus Christ. It's actually a prayer made by Jesus Christ, not David. If you don't understand it, keep shut, face front, go look for another chapter, instead of heaping damnation on yourself.
"Even a fool is thought wise if he keeps silent, and discerning if he holds his tongue." (Proverbs 17:28).

Joagbaje:
The entire words in the bible are definitely not the word of God. The bible is a compilation of books . Which contains the word of God, words of men, words of angels ,words of Satan and words of demons . but what we have documented in the bible were documented by Gods inspiration. Even though not everything documented were spoken by God.

But the word of God for the christian is anything; words ,thoughs ,ideas that is consistent with Gods plan and purpose for us in christ Jesus. That is Gods word to us. "I am legion , for we are many" is DEFINITELY Gods word for us. En though it's documented in the bible.

i hope the bolded is a mistake?

mazaje:
The passage in Isaiah said lucifer assuming that is satan fell from heaven, it then said that he has it in mind to ascend into heaven and exalt his throne above the stars of god. . .


Where did it say that satan fell from the third heaven. . .

Your questions no plenty this time, seems you're getting one or two things? The isaiah passage says lucifer fell, then it gives a reason for his fall. 'FOR'(because) thou hast said i will ascend.
Where did i say that satan fell from the third Heaven?

"Folly delights a man who lacks judgment, but a man of understanding keeps a straight course." (Proverbs 15:21).

Na wah ohhh. . . .As I said just keep making this up as you go. . . .If another christian is to come here he will explain or interpret things VERY differently from how image123 has interpreted the bible

@mazaje.
Like i told thehomer, the post was not for you. i didn't expect you to understand it. this was the post for you.

What story?

1Corinth 2v14 (CEV) That's why only someone who has God's Spirit can understand spiritual blessings. Anyone who doesn't have God's Spirit thinks these blessings are foolish.

Where is it written in the bible that satan fell from a different heaven than the one Yahweh resides in, pls show me where it is written in the bible,

It's been quoted already, where were you?
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder[b] in heaven; a woman[/b] clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

I don't need your twisted opinion, just want you to show where it is written in the bible. . .All I see you write is your OWN personal opinion, what am I to do with your personal opinion and writings that is filled with words like "it seems". . .

It's not personal opinion, its scriptures, and they were quoted passages to verify. If it's different from the answer you expected, shame on you, it's not my fault. No human is omniscient, neither am i. If someone says it seems it's going to rain, or a doctor tell you, it seems you might need to be operated on, therre are tangible reasons for that. it's not twisted opinion.

So there is a heaven that people can't see but is also different from where your god lives, eh? Where is it written in the bible?.

Ephesians 6v12 (BBE) For our fight is not against flesh and blood, but against authorities and powers, against the world-rulers of this dark night, against the spirits of evil in the heavens.

I'm certain you're also aware of the account of prophet Daniel's prayer being delayed.
.

Where is satan falling from?. . . .The bible said he fell from heaven, which of the heaven is it and where does the bible indicate that it is not the same heaven where yahweh resides according to the story?

Here's the Bible again,
2Corinth 12v2 (Darby) I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago, (whether in the body I know not, or out of the body I know not, God knows such a one caught up to the third heaven.
It's therre in your Bible also, i didn't put it there. the Bible teaches that therre is a third heaven. Obviously there is a firrst heaven and a second heaven for there to be a third . Have spoken on that and i would not waste extra space with you two on this.
Deuteronomy 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD's thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

^a confused and arrogant mind. Sorry, i'm not so interested in nephilims thank you. It seems you failed to see that my reply to YOU stopped just before this.

Anyway, for the benefits of my beloved brethren, who i perceive may also be in a strait as to the above discussion. Let me say a few words that may help.

You're still in the poor habit of saying things i've not said. I didn't say the whole of Revelations12, or the book of Revelations is future. I said that fall referred to is future, and also commented that devil's been falling for a while now and is in free fall. I should stop on that, like i earlier decided to work with what your godless mind could grasp. P.S i'm yet to say that satan sinned IN any heaven. That he fell from heaven does not translate to say that he sinned in Heaven.

Common sense is indeed not common. We never even start to open Bible for the matter, yet people dey vex.
STOP GAMBLING AWAY YOUR LIFE!

6gb lost in transit?

Haaaa, Joagbaje, you fall my hand gaaaaaan.

Just want to know if its against the biblie for a christian practising sports like Judo, Wresling, Boxing etc.
I ve not come across a verse yet but someone told me, they re not a biblical surported.
What do u know about this? your views are needed plz.

Sport is basically entertainment, a pastime, competitive activity. Bible says "Rom 14:20  For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense. "+Titus 1v15. It depends on your spiritual understanding and situation. Some things are not sin but may be wrong, and may cause others to sin. It is wrong not to keep to time, ti may be a sin or not a sin depending. God sees our hearts and weighs ALL our works. nevertheless, we should not live without concern for others, or satisfy our flesh, or abuse our use of the world. Whatsover we do, we should do all to the glory of God. That something is called sport/entertainment does not mean it's good. Gambling is sport to some, playing lotto is, strip dancing is, swallowing knives, r.omancing snakes, these are all sports. Almost anything can be made a sport.
Jdg 16:27  Now the house was full of men and women; and all the lords of the Philistines were there; and there were upon the roof about three thousand men and women, that beheld while Samson made sport.
1Corinth 7:31  And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.
We as believers are not to love the world, or the things that are in the world, just as someone else earlier posted. Whatever we meet in this world should be held with'loose hands'. i.e We should be willing to drop them anytime, no matter how much we enjoy them. that should be our attitude to the world and its system. Love God, love your neighbour as yourself. That simplehard command takes out competition, doesn't it. 'Cause if you truly loved your neighbour as yourself you would not want him to lose, or be hit, as you don't want to lose or be hit. So how the heavens do you win in sport? Take it as a sport, not 'do or die', out of my way, all i care is to win attitude, regardless of what happens to other competitors. Now, that's very hard, maybe humanly impossible to achieve. So we might both be involved in something(a 'good sport'), and my heart may be different from your heart. God sees both hearts, we see two sport men. Whatsover we do, we should do all to the glory of God. If there's a way possible for Judo, wrestling, boxing, gambling etc would glorify God. How it can be possible, if it is possible, by all means, then do it.

@nlMediator
Have already posted that i'm referring to all christians, not just young or baby christians. Now the passages you've alluded to in Lamentations, Proverbs and Isaiah are all promises of God. promises of God need to be claimed. they also need to be known. In many cases, they also need to be prayed in/keyed into. there are thousands of God's promises to His children. not all His children enjoy these promises. God says in different instances, "Hos 4:6a  My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge". Knowledge is power. We don't know everything. Some people know a lot about holiness and purity, and have 'keyed into' God's promises for our holiness. These same set may not know much about God's plan for our healing. They might suffer unduly due to their ignorance in that respect. Some think its godliness to be sick, or that it increases their humility and righteousness. We know about healing in different levels and it works for us(As he thinks in his heart so is he/he shall have what he says). Some believe God for healing of headache and backpain but can't seem to believe for say AIDS. Some believe they're not going to need an operation. some believe God will give them a successful operation. Some have even passed this healing phase on a large not, and rest on God's health plan. they hardly fall sick, even when they used to fall sick often before, but they 'keyed into' something in God's Word and can now say stuff like "I've only taken a pill/hospital admission/injection once in the last Xyears". These are all christians, good christians for that matter. Some know much about health but face loss and disappointment constantly in another area of life, maybe academics, or gadgets are always spoiling or getting missing and replaced. It might take a word or demonstration of authority by the person, or his/her pastor to put a stop to this. Where the promises not there? They were, but he just 'connected' to them. he connected expected POSITION to personal EXPERIENCE. Some may continue to forever 'manage' that situation, and to God be the glory, ALL things work together for good. ANother may know how to believe God and receive from God financially. I shall not want, my cup runneth over has been ingrained into his dna as it were, and you constantly see him give testimonies of how God favoured him, and he got an incredible raise, or that someone dashed him a billion naira, or he entered a business and prospered 100fold like Isaac where others lost miserably, including a fellow church member even. It might be as a result of a test from God, it might be he keyed into something or prayed through to that position. It might be the devil playing pranks. DOn't ever underestimate the devil. Not implying that you should fear him or something, but know that he's there, and he's not sleeping. he's not a fool also.
Jer 29:11  For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
Jer 29:12  Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
God wants to, plans to, promises to give us the best, but we still need to pray and then He'll hear us. We still need to play our part and then He'll bless us.

Why was satan sent packing from heaven according to the story?. . . .

What story?

Please tell me, where was Satan when he sinned?

Good question, he was not in Heaven.

Sorry but it seems you've not properly read your Bible. Please visit a Sunday school teacher.

Seems more like you listened to the wrong things in Sunday school. You should have listened to that which would have profited you today, faith in God and the fear of God.

If you're unable to parse from the quoted Bible verses that Satan sinned in Heaven according to your own scriptures, then what is the point of showing you that these nephilim were supposed to be the children of Satan's cohorts?

Big grammar. So it took a parsing from you to arrive at your conclusions, good confession, we're making progress. By the way, you did not answer, who are nephilims? Are you one? Or we should skip that part, no probs?

Ezekiel 28:13-19
13 You were in Eden, the garden of God; your clothing was bejeweled with every precious stone--ruby, topaz, diamond, chrysolite, onyx, jasper, sapphire, carbuncle, and emerald--all in beautiful settings of finest gold. They were given to you on the day you were created.
14 I appointed you to be the anointed Guardian Angel. You had access to the holy mountain of God. You walked among the stones of fire.
15 ``You were perfect in all you did from the day you were created until that time when wrong was found in you.
16 Your great wealth filled you with internal turmoil and you sinned. Therefore, I cast you out of the mountain of God like a common sinner. I destroyed you, O Guardian Angel, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Mazaje dey make me laugh o!See atheists dropping scriptures for devil's sake, literally. That passage doesn't say the devil sinned IN Heaven. You can color it, quote it, embolden it, underline it. It doesn't say that devil sinned IN Heaven.
 Anyway, for the benefits of my beloved brethren, who i perceive may also be in a strait as to the above discussion. Let me say a few words that may help.
We usually say that the Word of God requires interpretation by the Spirit of God and for scriptures to agree with scriptures, very true, very important! When we say atheists don't/can't understand scriptures, they don't believe. Now, we've got to leave other things and lead the blind out of his ditchly habitat. The book of Revelations is HIGHLY symbolic, and even on the intellectually level shouldn't be taken literally, not to mention on the spiritual level.
Rev 1:1  The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to show unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
God signified/symbolized it. There, a candle might actually be referring to a group of people. Stars are not necessarily the star up there shining at night, the alpha and omega may not be just greek alphabets but God Himself. to take Revelation 12 completely literally,

Rev 12:1  And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

i guess its generally known that this 'woman' is not a woman but Israel. Yet this woman is seen in this 'vision' IN heaven.

Rev 12:3  And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Then the red dragon, satan is also seen IN heaven.
So they are both together in heaven. Of course, we all see and know Israel, so nobody assumes that Israel is in heaven. but we don't see satan and assume he's in heaven. And then you read on and see all the things that happen 'in' heaven like mazaje quoted.The drawing of stars, the delivery, the fleeing, the war and co. A good place to note though is verse 5.
Rev 12:5  And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
i was kindof impressed that even our resident atheists knew that this was referring to Jesus Christ. Now of course we know Israel is on earth, and that Jesus Christ was born on earth, died and then went to Heaven. that's why it says in verse 5 "caught UP unto God, and to his throne."
So even though all these account supposedly happened 'in heaven', Jesus left that 'heaven' to be CAUGHT UP to God.
It's logical to conclude that God was not in that heaven where 'the dramas' occurred. A fast learner/hearer would know by now that this 'heaven' in Revelation 12 is symbolic/signified, and not the Heaven that believers want to go to. So, what does the Bible say about satan and where he sinned? About satan, the Bible writes
Ezekiel 28:13  Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
He previously 'owned'/controlled this place, it seems. That's before man was put in his place. Little wonder, he hates man with a passion. And not only that, god's taking man to Heaven, and has made provisions for man to be godly, and created in the image of God. All these are stuff devil can never achieve again.

Isa 14:13  For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14  I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
There was satan's dream. If he was in the Heaven in question, he would not be thinking of 'ascending'. Jesus Christ ascended, was caught UP.
 One more thing though,

Isa 14:12  How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
This might confuse some, but there's no room for such confusion once you realise that there 'heaven' is an ambiguous word, and should be interpreted depending on the Spirit of God and on the context. Paul the apostle mentions something about the third heaven, so let me stay on three here. [s]Never mind about the muslims' heaven and co.[/s]
2Corinth 12:2  I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such a one caught up to the third heaven.
There's one, an heaven that we see around us i.e the skies, the firmament, the atmosphere.

Lam 4:19  Our persecutors are swifter than the eagles of the heaven: they pursued us upon the mountains, they laid wait for us in the wilderness.
Deu 9:1  Hear, O Israel: Thou art to pass over Jordan this day, to go in to possess nations greater and mightier than thyself, cities great and fenced up to heaven,
There's two, the second heaven, where we can't see from here but is different from where God lives.
Jer 7:18  The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
2Ki 17:16  And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshiped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
satan is the prince of the power of the air. In this heaven, we have rulers, principalities in high places, spiritual wickedness. It seems Christ alluded to this heaven when he said "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:"
If there's any heaven that satan is in(or was in like our resident atheists are positing) , then it should be there.
There is three, the third heaven, the one that a man went in the spirit in 2Corinth 12. That's where Jesus went and where God dwells. When He says "I make a new heaven and earth" or "heaven and earth will pass away", He's not necessarily referring to God's dwelling place. BTW, satan is always falling and would continue to fall. That's his own destiny that occupies him. Luke 10:18  And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.. He seems to be in free fall. that's why no one should want to follow him or behave like him. We can choose our own destinies, or destinations. We can become heavenly minded. We can see the kingdom of God/enter into the kingdom of God. the conditions are not alien to many of us. It's the steps that we need to take.

and the way back to his original country was to die.

Even if thomas paine was so slow in thinking, can't you think?
Did Jesus go to His 'original country' by dying or when He resurrected, and ascended in the view of many of His witnesses?

^You both disappoint me. You're no different from the majority of christians that you usually accuse and disdain of living on what other men(their churches and pastors) have fed them from their youth. If you like, don't only read the entire chapter(Revelation 12), read the entire book. Nothing there says that satan sinned IN Heaven. Your assumptions are doing you bad.
BTW, i see you're having a nice time with the asides that was included(on 'future'). i'm not going to talk more on that. The point is that no scriptures say that satan or anyone ever SINNED IN Heaven. Do you even know satan's sin?
Thehomer, what are nephilims o, our bible teacher?

I just dey laugh go Oh. Wetin we no go see for nl! Jesus was not perfect either ke? Who is fatai? Is it oluwafatai or abdulfatai?
Boomerang

thehomer:
Really? Read Revelation 12:7,8 and 9. In fact, I'll simply post them below.

As you can see, the devil was cast out of heaven do you think he did something wrong and was cast out? Also, who were the nephilim?

I know you're looking for any excuse to run from this difficult discussion but I think you would need to find a good one.

Good boy, you posted a specific scripture. Unfortunately, i have to help you by saying that passage or any other does not say that the devil sinned IN Heaven. (as an aside, that scripture's future not past like you assume, but you can't understand so let's deal with what you've got). You're talking about the possibilities of man sinning when he gets to Heaven since, according to you, the devil sinned in Heaven.
I should be asking you about nephilims, you're the one coming up with them, abi you be one,lol?

@nlMediator
i'll reply later but i must quickly note that i'm not referring to 'baby christians'(i think you read that from Jo and his cohorts). I'm referring to christians in general, at all levels.

O boy ei. Very funny thread. Duplicity, simplicity, Jo and the women. Where is tpia?

You MUST be born again

mazaje:
The devil disobeyed Yahweh in heaven and was sent packing according to the story, no?. . . .Is disobedience to God not considered a sin according to the christain hypothesis?

Do not waste time any further. Provide the specific scriptures that state this.

thehomer:
My advice to you would be that you look into your scriptures. Check out Revelations 12 and the stories of the Nephilim who were children of fallen angels. I think you should ignore enigma because he will not contribute anything useful to this conversation.

I checked Revelation 12. There's nothing there about the devil sinning in Heaven. Seems you were just looking for trouble like enigma said. Can you post that specific verse?

logica:
Why don't you define it, or did I coin the phrase? Now back to you, "What is 'Free Will'"? LOL, I suspect the goal-post is about to be shifted.

Who's asking the question?

thehomer:
But the devil sinned in Heaven. How was he able to do this without temptation?

mazaje:
The mythology just doesnt make any sense. . . . .

Sorry, i don't recall any of these in scriptures, are you trying to make trouble here like enigma posited?

Recall the lady diviner who was throwing spanners into Paul and his team's outreach until Paul sensed it in his spirit. Recall Paul saying somewhere that 'satan hindered us' and He wanted to be at a particular place about 3times but Satan stopped it, and he later saw that he could actually send others instead. Recall the messenger of satan sent to 'buffet' Paul. The scriptures is clear to say "we wrestle". Positionally, we're more than conquerors already. Yet experientially, we have to endure, put on the WHOLE ARMOR so as to be able to stand. Truth is not everybody stands. The enemy attacks on different lines. Some do well to stand. Some fall seven times and stand. Some fall and can't get up. If anyone drops the shield of faith, brother, He's become susceptible to injury from the enemies' camp. Injury may be sin, sickness, unnecessary delay or failure. God's people can perish for lack of knowledge, truth. But of course we can stand in victory with God, it's possible and it's some's testimonies. Praise God.

@nuclear
I think i should add that in the christian walk, we operate on two majors, POSITION and EXPERIENCE. Our 'position' is God's blueprint, place, plan for us. Our 'experience' is our present level of 'growth'. Positionally, all children of God are justified, sanctified, seated in heavenly places. That's like the standard, where God wants us to be. But we move our experience to meet with position. As we behold our position in God's Word, and press on, we're changed into HIS image/picture/blueprint from glory to glory. In experience, we're not all in the same class. And even though Christ is our righteousness, we still grow and learn and perfect holiness. Our lives are a race set before us. We see the 'goal' in the scriptures and are changed into its likeness. In that process of change, experience shows that 'things' happen.

Wow, just saw this thread again. The will of God is done in Heaven, not any other will. The will of God is what we need, the will of God is good for us. There's no temptation to sin in Heaven.

^It depends on what YOU mean by free will. What's free will?

Pastor said na.

What's the question here?

^Thread diverts here. A HOLY life is a life that obeys God's Word, and that's perfect and holy for God is holy.

Take my life and let it be,
Consecrated Lord to Thee,
Take my moments and my days,
Let them flow in CEASELESS praise.
Graham Scroggie of Edinburgh, was one time approached at the close of service by a young woman, a professing christian. He asked "why don't you yield to God?"
"i am afraid i would have to do two things if i did," responded the girl.
"what are they?" questioned the minister.
"i play the piano in a concert hall, and i fear i would have to give it up. The other is i am afraid God would send me to china as a missionary".
Scroggie was wise in his dealings with the anxious. Opening to Acts 10v14, he explained to the young woman the absurdity of Peter's answer. A slave never dictates. And to say, "Not so," and then add the word "Lord" is impossible.
"Now," said Dr. Scroggie, "I want you to cross out the two words 'Not so' and leave the word 'Lord'; or else cross out 'Lord' and leave 'not so'."
Handing her his pencil he walked away. Later he returned. Looking over her shoulder he saw a tear-stained page, but the words "Not so" were crossed out. With A GLAD LIGHT in her eyes she left the church and went home repeating over and over the word "Lord." No longer would she dictate. She was now His disciple and He her Lord and Master. Henceforth it would be, "Even so, Father," and, "Lord, what wilt Thou have me to do?"
Oswald J. Smith.

It still didn't work.