₦airaland Forum

Rossikk: Of course the existence of consciousness means the existence of a soul. Consciousness Is SOUL.

Animals have a soul? Centipedes, may flies, spirogyra, fleas, bats and the millions of species of animals on this earth have souls because they have consciousness? I find that preposterous bro. C'mon!

There is no valid explanation of how mere tissue can create consciousness.

You mean you've searched ALL available literatures and laboratories?

Matter cannot create consciousness. Sheer common sense really. Unless you believe in magic.

I don't believe in magic and i would love to know what makes you so certain that matter/tissue (which the brain is made of) cannot create consciousness (that the brain is responsible for). I sense that you mean that something cannot be created out of nothing, right?

You cannot say that consciousness does not exist outside the body just because not everyone has experienced it. That's patently ridiculous.

I feel the same way bro. You cannot say that it does exist because some (a microscopic few at that) people have experienced it. I meant what I said about hunger and fatigue. The day that everybody starts to have OBEs is the day i'll start believing in it.

mcstan01: #yourpointnotedthough but my own point is if s/he adamantly refuses to swear and/or take an oath(if there's a significant difference) will the proceedings continue, allowing he/r to testify?

I think the proceedings will continue because like I said, no reasonable court should force a person to. Provided there are witnesses to the person's claim to be truthful.

Nice post. "following"
I've got a similar question to rusher14. I export goods and services and i get paid via T/T (Wire Transfer). Does the Western Union thingy apply to me? Do I get to withdraw my dollars? I just wanna know if my account officer is not playing karo with me.

Rossikk: What makes you think animals don't have consciousness? Animals are intelligent beings.

I never stated that animals don't have consciousness. In fact, the reason i provided those examples was to show clearly that animals are as intelligent as humans (far more in some cases and far less in others but they possess a tad of intelligence). My question to you will now be: does the fact that they have consciousness mean that they have souls?

Intelligence does not derive from physical tissue. If it does, then tell us what special qualities are contained in mere tissue that can create consciousness.

I can't tell you since i am not an evolutionary biologist.But i bet you, there is a valid answer to your question. That you don't know it does not mean you should term it spiritual.

And if millions of people have not had o.b.e. it is immaterial insofar as it is known that millions have had the experience, which proves that consciousness can exist independently of a material, physical body.

It is immaterial too if millions have had, insofar as it is known that millions have not had the experience. My point is that if such were the case, then OBEs should not be experienced by a select 'millions', since we are all humans. In fact, animals and plants too should have 'em, but that is not the case bro (or is it?). Every human has experienced fatigue and hunger, now that's how to prove that something as basic as OBEs exist.

mcstan01: what would an atheist swear with?

Guardian newspaper (they are "nurtured by the truth"..Lol
Just kidding sha.
If s/he is compelled to do so, it shouldn't be a big deal. To him/her, the book could as well be a William Shakespeare book. Like Illuminatus opined, as long as there are witnesses to his/her declaration, it should not matter. S/he does not believe it any way! However I don't think any reasonable court should force a person to if the person does not believe.

ferdimako: in haste huh.

Yea! I feel the fella's pain tho. But he's just gotta take it one semester at a time!

akin7686: Update yourself, the program is now 5yr.
EKO O NI BAJE OH

misto: computer science in unilag has been packaged as computer science nd engineering since 2009 or so making it a 5yrs course.

Make una no vex o! Na that time I go serve for Cameroon so you won't really blame me.I sha know that as at when I finished in '08, it was a 4-year course and apparently I've not kept up. Still, EKO BAJE TI!

Illuminatus: You get three choices, Bible, Koran or fetish stuff if you subscribe to traditional religion. What you swear on (Bible or Koran) doesn't count. The thing is that you make that proclaimation openly so that if it is later found out that you lied, you'll charged with perjury.

Nicely said. Avoid committing perjury! If you are an unbeliever, it shouldn't be a big deal to swear.

Eko o ni baje o!

Wait! 500 level computer science student? Akokites, how far? The last time I checked, it was a 4-year course o!

Nice move (if only...). I'll believe it when I see it. When they've created the 700k jobs, I'll consider it an achievement.

Satisfy your conscience bro. Follow your heart!

Who are you? Nick Cannon?

Take me to the teenage department please. I wanna live in God's presence!

[quote author=wogor@paradise]o boy u mean[/quote]It's also known as keeping it real! Abi?

maureensylvia: i have been thinking of this for so long, i am a staunch catholic going to marry an anglican but it is a big blow to me cos am used to catholic, i was born and brought up in catholic and iam in many societies in my church. now love wants to take me to anglican...for the sake of marriage, can you leave your church?

It's marriage baby, it's a sacrifice you've gotta pay if your man demands it!

bad meat: If u can follow hom to mr biggs,why can't you follow him to his church

You are karid! Lol!
Laff don make me touch crase woman breast

I think it's not impossible.

Talk about passengers that got 'high' on laughter!

Rossikk: Do you realise that millions of people have had out-of-body experiences?

What is an out-of-body experience if not proof that Consciousness is not dependent on a physical body for its existence?

Have you? I haven't. Do you know that millions of people have not?

On a common sense level, what is it that makes you think that your consciousness now is due to some combination of physical materials in your body?

Isn't it?

How can mere physical human tissue give you the ability to think, memorize, project the future, create, plan etc etc?

How can animals do the same? Fishes have a memory span of 5 months, ants 'plan' ahead for rainy days (in the process, project the future), etc. Does this mean that they are conscious and thus have souls?

There is no more reason for human tissue to think and plan than there is a piece of cardboard.

Of course there has to be an immaterial force that merely uses your physical body as a 'container' for itself in this dimension. Once that container expires either by age or accident, why on earth would it affect your immaterial force? It won't. All that will happen is the force will move on to another realm since it can no longer participate meaningfully in this one, lacking a physical body visible to those here. The body is just a container for Consciousness. You are NOT your body any more than you are the clothes you're wearing right now.

I don't buy this either. There is no need for an immaterial force if the same cannot be applied to animals who share the same characteristics you pointed out.

mumumugu: Immediately they die, that death age will remain constant just like vampire

And this will cause confusion on the last day because you won't recognize some of your peeps!

macof: not sure if souls have human appearance but wat I know[/]b is that everyones soul existed before they came to life, souls/spirits have known each other from the spirit world already.

Yes, you can't be sure! As far as souls are concerned, no one should be!

Re-incarnations happen and so a persons spirit [b]might come back to life not long[b] after he dies.
How long exactly? 5 minutes? 25? Yes it might but i don't think it will!
[quote]Life is re-occurring, and more souls are sent here on earth almost every second. So if u die and expect to see one of ur loved relatives u might be disappointed to find out that he's back on earth as another life. There's no optimum age for the afterlife, every soul appears exactly how it was created from the beginning, no aging in appearance.

Apparently, you don't subscribe to the christian concept of resurrection on the last day where everybody will meet with their loved ones. I don't too, and as much as i would love to, i'm not seeing any relative (you just broke some bereaved hearts). I get your point about the ageing thingy tho. 'Ageing' is an earthly thing and just as the flesh decomposes, it becomes meaningless. As per afterlife, your answer is that there is none and your analogy makes sense given your belief system. I don't do souls sha!

I nearly choked with laughter! So you wanna send me to the afterlife? Lol

Lovetinz: I had to check what that word means?

1. The same way you describe atoms as spinning without ever haven seen one before.
You read Edgar Cayce and you want peer reviewed materials on the Afterlife. Are you joking?

Bro, juxtaposing atoms (proven to exist via innumerable experiments) with papanormal ish is gangsta! Yea, I'm familiar with Edgar Cayce and so am I with Wole soyinka, Frank Peretti, Mark Twain, Chinua Achebe and other imaginative writers. I read them for entertainment and nothing else. I mentioned peer-reviewed papers because i see 'em as credible enough to alter my thought pattern. Apparently, paranormal ain't my thingy! :p

2. Atlantis is a fictitious place? Maybe.

Ambivalence would do...

Peer reviewed? We are discussing the Paranormal here, not Physiology.
Rampa? I read his books over 30 (Thirty) years ago.

You ever heard of Cunningham, Israel Regardie, Arthur Waite, Donald Tyson, Dion Fortune, Austin Osman Spare
You ever heard of the word Qabalah?

Peer reviewed Metaphysical papers

Agreed! I made a bad call for peer-reviewed metaphysical papers. Entirely my fault! I was looking for a needle in a hay sack.
Never heard of any of the authors you mentioned and you probably know why by now. I'd love to take a peek when I have the time though. I came across the qabbala word for the first time about 2 weeks ago and it struck me as a lollapalooza so I checked it out and that was it.
So going back to the thread, your guys have not been able to convince me since I consider them as imaginative writers (not scholars) given the erroneous (in my books) titles.

"If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working?" - Tuco (The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly)

The straightdope on the issue is that most employed folks are miserable at their jobs. I used to be like that but I bailed after some months when the implications were minimal since I had no serious familial commitments. I had to pursue my dream. Many are not that fortunate or do not have the guts coz of insecurity, but will you blame them? Normally, if you don't love your job, you should quit. But we know things are not normal around here. Not everybody is business savvy. So to me, the best approach is to see the bright side of things and to work assidiously towards liberating yourself (whatever that means to you).

ifeness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBY15KSnmo

This link will help to get an articulate explanation of the yoruba cosmology.

This works with me...Thanks

FOLYKAZE: I cant say anymore. This is Epic. Thanks for sparing your time and energy on this thread

You're welcome bro.
It was edifying. Thanks again for the suggested books.

FOLYKAZE: Do you agree inanimated objects have some form of consciousness and are alive? How?

They are not alive (hence the term, inanimate). Nevertheless, they are active just as Alfa Seltzer averred as they contain particles that are in constant motion. To answer your question about unconsciousness, I'll say no. It is just a state of the observer not being able to discern the 'conscious' state of the observed. A corpse is thus not 'unconscious' because it is continuously interacting with the environment at the sub-atomic level. It is not alive, but active!

FOLYKAZE: Firstly, note that nollywood is just anti-spirituality. They depict spirituality as evil and western beliefs as good. Also lot of concept were not explain vividly. It movie that completely delude us to think witch are flying human, Eshu is devil and Eledumare is anthropomorphic being living in the sky. Well it completely wrong. You can check about spirituality here

Get some books written by Wande Abimbola

- Ijinle Ohun Enu Ifa Apa Kini and Apa Keji

- “Secrecy and Objectivity in the Methodology of Ifa Divination”, (with Barry Hallen), inSe crecy: African Art that Conceals and Reaveals, Museum of African Art, New York, 1993.

- Ifa: An Exposition of Ifa Literary Corpus (Oxford University Press, Ibadan, 1977).

- Awon Oju Odu Mereerindinlogun (University Press Limited, Ibadan, 1977).

Thanks a million bro. You have really educated me on the subject matter. It is indeed an eye opener. I'll do my own readings though. Can you recommend any bookshop in particular?

FOLYKAZE can you please recommend some books on yoruba mysticism and spirituality so that i can get a grasp of what it really entails. I must say there is a gross misconception about what it really is, thanks to movies. I have never seen these gods in the light you paint 'em on nairaland.

Lovetinz: I disagree.
Consciousness is not a result of those interactions. The opposite is true.
Those interactions are trying to adapt to the present (in these case, earthly) demands of consciousness.

Archetypal chicken or egg scenario. Or don't you think so?

FOLYKAZE: Yes. As in if consciousness arise through complicated series of chemical reaction in our brain, and our stimuli is base on result of this reaction is our brain. Cant this reaction in a different process implies too with plant and stone?

You imply that 'consciousness' in the sense of this thread sure results in 'consciousness' in the dictionary sense and I agree with that. However, the reason it does not apply to stones and plants is the same reason why our culinary preferences are different from those of anthropods.

Actually, it is impossible to know whether other human beings are conscious. Because we feel conscious, we assume other people must be like us. But this can only be an inference.

Impossible? I don't get it!

[quote author=Dibu_Ojerinde]#strays in innocently#
"OMG!!!"
#covers nose eyes and runs out#[/quote]Lmsao! O tie le!

Romanticboy1: wow! 2bad 4 dt 'smell' 2 spoil show

I tell you bro!