₦airaland Forum

John 4:
Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Jerusalem is nothing but a space on the map.

Akanniade:
What you should ask yourself is How many churches worship freely in iran, saudi, etc not to talk of building cathedrals. The western world should stop tolerating the intolerant. This desert dwelling reprobates would only use their democracy against them.

Infact eh, I don't have enough 'gbams' to give you for this one "Tolerating the intolerant"

Sky Blue:
In most western countries people are hardly just allowed to build anything they want, a permit is required. Such a prerequisite for building, is useful in controlling what such cities or towns or nations want their image to be. The Swiss have not banned mosques, they have banned Minarets.

I say even if they ban mosques, it is their country and their perogative.
I would be very upset as a taxpayer some foreigner comes to my backyard and dictates to me what I can ban or cannot ban. If you don't like it, there are daily flights back to the ME.

Deep Sight:
Jesoul - So what do you think is meant by the following scripture:

Acts 10:34 - 35: "Of a truth, i perceive that God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation, he that fears him and worketh righteousness, is acceptable to him"

Absolutely what it says. We see it times without number in the OT, people of non-isrealite roots being commended and lauded for their faith even though they had been taught absolutely nada about the Jehovah of the Isrealites. But Ghandi has heard times without number about Jesus and His sacrifice and he turned it down.

Question. All the incredible good and charity that Oprah does, is she motivated by her faith in God? or is she motivated by herself? or by the many praises of men that she receives? or by that warn fuzzy feeling in her heart? what about Ghandi? Bono? . . . and you are 100% right with this next quote:

When taken together with the scripture where Jesus says that many would call out to him, espousing their faith in him and the miracles they worked in his name, and that he would reject them, you must agree that there is a very strong inference that all the faith in the world is meaningless, without "goodness" or "righteousness" of heart. Whereas it is apparent from the Acts quote that people of different cultures and religions ("in every nation" who fear God and "work righteousness" will be acceptable to him.

Faith in God must result in good works or else it is not really faith at all. James 2:17 "In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead". James 2:26 "As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead."

The faith must produce an action, but this must not be confused with the fact that there are many actions of good done today that are outside of faith, that are not motivated by a love for God. These works abound in great number today.

I agree that we cannot be perfect. I think that a good volition is what is required. I do not, and will never believe that God will regard the works of Mahatma Ghandi or Mother Theresa as "filthy rags."

What do you say?

Well, if they did it outside of faith or believing they did it of their own accord or strength, then the scriptures could not be clearer. "Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags;

  Like you rightly quoted Deepsight, God is no respecter of persons. Ghandi means no more to Him than you or I or the killer on death row. Here's a little bit of what the bible has to say about the kinds of philosophies Ghandi subscribed to:

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Colossians 2: See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

  16Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. 18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize . . . "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? 22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
  You see the above Deepsight?

bawomolo:
those guys want me to give me hypertension. i'm rooting for them, the city of new orleans deserves it big time.

platinumnk:
thank u jare, i dont know what was wrong with the Saints yesterday

I heard you guys have seriously mismanaged all those billions that came in in Federal disaster funds?

bawomolo:
didn't i tell you the patriots mystique is over?  

that defense is young and would be much better next year though.

cutler always feasts on the weaker teams.  He needs to show up for the big game when it counts.

steelers lose to raiders  . and congrats to old man warner. I wouldn't want to be the guy who misses a 23yr FG with two mins to go. dude just earned his last paycheck for the season.

Go siddon jor, the mystique is alive and kicking . . . Brady always struggles in Miami, that cold water boy is not used to the heat and humidity. But you're right about our defense, like I've been saying all season, they simply need time, they will get better.

The Steelers have fallen to a new low . . . lol  

And these Cardinals are just strange. One week they look like scrubs, the next, studs.


And as for the Saints . . . hmm, I have no comment. No SB bound team should be having that much trouble and almost losing to the likes of the Redskins.

I was actually on my way to see it last week but got sidetracked . . . now that someone in here says its good, I'll hafta check it out.

No2, okay .

Deep Sight:
Thus you subcribe to the view of your Team Lead, Noetic, that Mahatma Ghandi is going to hell?

Well, rather than tagging it "Jesoul and Noetic's view", I would much rather you see it as what it is - the biblical view, and anyone professing to be of the christian faith must unequivocally and unrepentantly subscribe to this position. The bible doesn't give the option to cherry pick with portions to accept or reject and still remain in good standing.

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  Now that being said permit me to speak a lil more on Ghandi.

-Like I had mentioned to Toney earlier, according to the bible, the way to be saved and gain approval from God has never changed, it has always been the same - and that is by Faith alone. It would appear you believe Ghandi's many many good works are his qualifications (far ahead of far less acheived, ordinary people) that will earn him admittance into heaven. That all the incredible good he has done in the world put him first in line front of the pearly gates.

-This is what the bible says about 'good works' done apart from the kind of Faith God seeks from us:
"Isaiah 64:6 All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf, and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
"Romans 3:12 All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

. . . and no one can ever possibly and truly do good. Why? Think of a leper. You can give him a nice long bubble bath, clean up his sores, and finally put on him a clean, shiny silk cloth. But after a while what happens? the sores will begin to bleed again and eventually seep through the new linen. He is filthy on the inside and no matter what he does on the surface, no matter what applications he tries on, he will still remain filthy from the inside out. His illness needs to be cured first.

   - and this leper is every man, every woman, every person ever born on the face of the planet. Which is why no good action will save us - it is faith in God that saves.

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The whole point of Jesus coming and dying was to save us from this sin and the very worst slap in the face of God is to say "I am without sin, and without need for a savior". 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.

  So you see 'not believing in Jesus' is not just 'not believing in Jesus' but also a rejection of the fact that we all are inherently sinful, and hence subsequently have no need for Jesus and the unbelieveable sacrifice He made. This is to insinuate that "I am good enough, I can do enough good to please God and earn my way into heaven". This is in essence to commit the worst possible offense "Heb 10 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?"  

  I hope this does some justice to your one-line question 

[quote author=m_nwankwo link=topic=362149.msg5065001#msg5065001 date=1260192891]My view is that many simple minded people have a correct perception of God even though they cannot define it or describe it in a way that seems reasonable to others with sophisticated intellect. It is the man with a sophisticated intellect that has problems with understanding the ways of God or even believing in God. When people think too much as scholars do, they create a maze of thoughts that are so loud that they suffocate the calm quiet voice of the spirit.  The spirit alone has the ability to understand the will of God. When this voice of the spirit is unrecognised due to the noise generated by intellectual pondering, then the path to percieving God or and his will is blocked.

To describe God in a way that seems closer to the perception of the human brain is really difficult. Inspite of this limitation, one can say that God is  Eternity to which everything is absolutely dependent on but God is absolutely independent of everything else, thus existence no matter in what form or formlessness is simply a manifestation of God or more correctly a manifestation of the power of God. Thus there is no existence without God but their is God without existence. In otherwords, existence was created by the power of God and is absolutely dependent on the power of God but God is eternal and absolutely independent of anything else. Thus only God is Life, everthing else directly or indirectly derive its existence from LIFE that is God.[/quote]Goodness gracious Nwankwo, is there any observable limit to your wisdom?  The above is just beautiful to read.

  @Topic,
it is a tie between the subject of 'Tithes' and 'Evolution vs Creation/God vs no God'

  I've never been more flattered . . . na only me one get all these husbands . I am flattered fellas, muchos gracias

But shey una know say na prayer meeting we go dey do for house every night? and bible studies?

KunleOshob:
Before we can make any meaningful dialogueon this subject, we first have to be clear on three things namely:

(i) What does it mean to be a christian?
(ii) What is the true gospel of Jesus christ?
(iii)  Is it belief in the teachings of Jesus that is necessary for salvation or belief in him as a person?


_{(iv) What does it really mean to belief in a person? 
(v) In practical terms what does salvation really mean?}

Deep Sight:
Answer to (1) Love God and love your fellow man

Answer to (ii) Love God and Love your Fellow Man

Answer to (iii) Love God and Love your fellow Man.

My poor understanding only. . .

Infact eh the blessings of God will not escape you for this response!

   

Deep Sight:
Is it safe to assume that by the term "does not believe in him," you refer not to people who reject the man Jesus of Nazareth (perhaps as "God", or as "Saviour" or "Messiah", but to people who reject his teachings of Love?

Jesus the man of Nazareth, the Son of God, born of a virgin Mary, lived a carpenters life, was baptized, gathered His 12 disciples, went around preaching and healing cannot be divorced or seperated from just "His teachings of love". To truly accept Him according to the bible, is to accept all of Him as put forth by the bible.

  His Divinity is just as crucial as His humanity. If He is not God to you, and did not die to save you from your sins, then honestly, believing in His teachings is of little significance, because you have rejected Him as stated in Romans 3:17.

  Jesus primary purpose was not come to teach us to love each other, He came to save us from our sins (see the very popular Romans 3:16).

bawomolo:
what if the people of Switzerland voted to segregate muslims and christmas in a democratic vote, would that be right?
this is a slippery slope o. i'm personally not bothered by the minarets as long as the mosques keep their noise down.

It is a slippery slope. But the Swiss are by and large a moral people - along with the rest of the European and American world. They will not go down that road.

When in Nairaland do as the Nairalanders do. You cannot go to a foreign country and demand they bend to your traditions. The Swiss have spoken, the muslims must accpet. For crying out loud they make up less than 5% of the entire population!

There is plenty of land, brick, mortar and space in Sudan, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Iran etc . . . let them go and build there in peace. I guarantee 100% no one will object.

Excellent questions Toney. Lemme try and address:

toneyb:
Ok Let me talk like a Christian now lets examine this statement from Paul and the one Jesus. Jesus says that except a man be born again he CANNOT enter into the kingdom of god. He did not talk about any law written in any body's heart at all. He only said to be saved and get access into the kingdom of the God who sent him you must be born again else nothing for you. Whose words supersedes that of Jesus or that of Paul? Jesus also says that He is the way the truth and the life that NO ONE can come to his father EXCEPT through him, again he did not talk about any law written in any bodies heart at all.

First if you take nuthin else away from this debate, let it be this, the way to be saved and gain approval from God has never changed, it has always been the same - By Faith. Heb 11 "Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the men of old gained approval from God.

 Jesus and Paul are not talking about 2 different methods at all. What does it mean to be "born again"? is it just a confession of faith? or an action? or is it to be born of God? and what does it mean to be "born of God"? to be godly, to live after God's ways and commandments - points right back to what Paul says in Romans "God accepts those who OBEY His law". They're all talking about the same thing! And those who never heard about Jesus but by faith obey the conscience God put in our hearts are accpted by God. In the bible we see a prostitute, a murderer, an adulterer all commended because of their faith in God.

Now to the Issue of the law, What exactly are the laws that are written in people's hearts? There is an ancient Australian tribe that truly believe that eating the flesh of their enemies will make them better hunters, so they went around killing their neighbors. In what part of their hearts was the law of not killing their neighbors and eating their flesh writing?  How does a person obey the commandments of God like tithe and offering or observing the sabbath with out knowing about it? In what part of their hearts is this law writing? What about the law of divorce? Some societies do not see any thing wrong with divorce at that time or had divorce laws that were completely different from the one writing in the bible, In what part of their hearts were the bible divorce laws writing?

You know I can't really speak to what may or may not be in someone else's heart, and whether or not they sincerely and genuinely believe it. All I know it that everybody has a conscience, and it tells us when we're doing something right or wrong. Some of us choose to ignore it, some of us choose to listen to it.
As for other christian issues like tithe, divorce and sabbath, it would side track this thread to delve into that now.

What about the laws of stoning disobedient Children who curse their parents to death. Jesus was very comfortable with it (Mat 15: 1-6) What about those of them that did not grow ın societies that accept that form of punishment? In what part of their hearts were such laws writing? What about the Southern Nigerians who lived hundreds of years ago that truly believed that it was right to kill their twin babies and did that ritual with great pride? Why was a law against that not writing in their hearts?

Common now Toney, He did no such thing  . The same Jesus that said anyone who caused a child to go wrong is cursed and worthy of having a stone tied to his neck and dumped in the sea? Common now

Krayola:
But no be me go do referee for people wey smart pass me   

For where? my dude siddon. I have learned being "smart" is a very relative concept. You may or may not be armed with stupendous amounts of knowledge in abstract, theological, philosphical matters, but the objectivity and honesty that you have displayed in this forum so far earns you higher marks in my book than any other einstein on the loose. I'll take one practical guy over 100 philosphers jor.

toneyb:
Krayola refree? Don't go around distributing cards(yellow and red cards) all through the period of the game Please, remember it is a contact sport so some fouls can be over looked and pardoned.

Why now? that would take away all the fun.

naliakar:
Je Soul.

I learned today that Palin your hero is a birther. What is it about you republicans and reality?

First, my heroes are my mama and daddy
Second, I'm an independent with Republican leanings mixed with some strange liberal sprinklings.
Third, I think anyone who gives the 'birther' conspiracy anything more than a passing thought needs to get a job.

Even if Obama wasn't born here, what does it matter? He won the election fair and square. It is a stupid law anyways that those not born on the soil cannot be president.

that said, I still like Palin jor, carry go we're moose hunting together next week.

I will take a stab at 'em, but I'm not giving my opinion, I will give the biblical perspective this is a christian debate afterall right? , so if anyone takes offense, take your beef to the Higher Authority. I will also try as much as possible to keep the responses terse because way too often in these discussions, points get avalanched and buried under excessive use of words.

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1. Salvation of Sincere Non-Christians: The Bible Perspective and the Realist Perspective.

a) Sincere non-christian who never heard about Jesus Christ:
Romans 2 addresses this fully (CEVersion) "Those people who don't know about God's Law will still be punished for what they do wrong. And the Law will be used to judge everyone who knows what it says. God accepts those who obey his Law, but not those who simply hear it.
 Some people naturally obey the Law's commands, even though they don't have the Law. This proves that the conscience is like a law written in the human heart. And it will show whether we are forgiven or condemned, when God appoints Jesus Christ to judge everyone's secret thoughts, just as my message says."

b) Sincere non-christian who heard about Jesus Christ and rejected Him:
John 3 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him (Jesus).  But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged and condemned for not believing in God’s one and only Son. And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.

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2. Purgatory & The Afterlife - Real or Imagined?

-Purgatory is a catholic teaching, I'll leave that to a catholic to answer.

-As for the Afterlife/Heaven/Hell, according to the bible, yes they are real. Jesus Himself spoke about them very often.

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3. Baptism & Holy Communion - Required?

Required? No. The thief who died on the cross beside Jesus was neither batized nor ever had communion, yet Jesus promised he would be with Him in paradise.

Strongly encouraged? Yes. Getting baptized and partaking of communion are two of many signs one is saved NOT the requirement. They are the result of salvation, not the foundation upon which it is built.
Luke 22 "And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
Luke 7 "Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."
Ephesians 2 For[b] it is by grace you have been saved, through faith[/b]—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God

I cannot even laugh Lol . . . oga Deepsight has struck again.

Cracksnapplepop, thank you oh! I feel like I ran a marathon after typing the above.

The voice is unmistakable I recognize who thou art

I was just thinking of you the other day, wondering and praying that all is well with you.

I have some disposable time today .
I bit off Tiatmas topic of favorite NL personalities thread, took the list and played Word Association with the names. . . feel free to do yours with the whole list or partial.

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EDIT how could I forget these guys?
Bindex - Fun (The pilot promised me a ride and I'm still waiting)

ToneyB - Very cool and warm hearted. (I once thot he was brash and hostile but boy he proved me wrong, cool dude)

Recognise - Weird writing style lol but super duper cool and lovable.

Pilgrim - Brilliant (I miss that girl big time, learned so much from her)

Viaro - Intelligent but way too wordy + still not convinced you're not Pilgrim1 (try to be terse, you'll communicate more effectively on NL)

M_Nwankwo - The Ultimate gentleman, full of wisdom (no matter how harsh you talk to him, he remains cool and respectful)

Duduspace - Warm and mischeivious you'll love him once you get to know him


Noetic - Passionate  (fav quote of his is "are you educated?" lol)

OLAADEGBU (=Modupe01?) - Detached

DaviDylan - Frank and outspoken (fav quote "This is just disgusting!" lol)

Deep Sight - A gentleman, Intriguing  (major credit for infusing this section with good topics)

Pastor AIO - Ambiguos but intelligent

A K O - Absent

Uplawal - Abuzola-in-training

DGreatRock - Random

Mama-gee (f) - Scary

Hubreality - Christ Embassy!

Kola Oloye - Pastor

MrCrackles - Entertaining (curt and humorous posts)

Osisi or Ohsisi - Hilarious (fav quote "mohammed and 6yr old Aisha! lol)

Riff-Raff - unfamiliar

No2Atheism - Delightful (fav topic "black Jesus/people vs white" lol)

Aloy-Emeka - CNN

Huxley - Shady

Okija-juju - unfamiliar

Abuzola - Terrorist! lol

KunleOshob - Tithes! ROTFLOL

Tpia - Smart

Krayola - Honest and amiable (definitely the most honest atheist in this section)

Obalende - unfamiliar

Banom - Funny, lovable  (pranked me once, I will get him back soon)

Olabowale - Alhaji of NL, I like the oga much

Atheists - Confused

Chukwudi44 - Catholic   (on topics any and all things Catholic and tithe too lol)

Grace5 (=Oladegbuu/Modupe01?) - Distant

Manmustwac - Atheist Activist

Mazaje - Atheist Activist X2

Modupe01 - (=Oladegbuu/Modupe01?) - Enagaging

Ogaga4Luv - Freak

Jagunlabi - unfamiliar

Tudor - Brusque

Bobbyaf - Strange

May Kelly - Very strange

Chrisbenogor - Humble and good natured  (but since he stood me up in the movies section I'm rethinking the good natured part)

SeanT21 - Supercool (this chick is going places!)

Mavenbox - Intelligent

Horus - unfamiliar

Bawomolo - Coolheaded (I've never seen him throw or return an insult)

tiatma:
I dey like "ewa"

Had the Elijah syndrome and was removing all my postings, also was updating my professional certifications etc

This is a test mail account - tiatma, kinda something like my alter-ego

If this is the voice of Jacob, who is Esau?

tiatma:
Hey my sista from another motha, you're staying behind doing overtime or what

You're not usually posting this late

    wow so my posting habits are known like this? 

  My dear, I am indeed in a lil bit late today. How have you been? 

Church of Tiger? ROTFLOL

They're disbanding? well, at least we've found one good thing to come out of Tigers transgressions