₦airaland Forum

Pastor AIO:
To be honest, I haven't read much of it.  I've tried a few times but it doesn't really grip me or speak to me in any way.  I don't really use it personally, neither do I use much of the old testament.  That is not to say that someone else might not find in it a rich source of inspiration.  It's importance/significance to us as christians will vary from christian to christian.  For me it has mainly historical significance.

Okay thanks. I always find myself somewhat unsure on how to handle or approach extra-biblical texts. Can it be trusted? does it stand in opposition or contradiction to the current bible? if not, does it have any significant application for today's believers? and for that reason I myself don't read or use any of them. I would agree with you though about their historical significance, but beyond that 

Anyways, slightly off-topic but care to explain more why you don't really use the OT?

Imhotep, long time hope all has been sunshine with you.

imhotep:
"My friend and I went to the fair. THE WORLD FAIR OF RELIGIONS. Not a trade fair. But the competition was as fierce, the propaganda loud.

At the Jewish stall we were given handouts that said that God was all-compasionate and the Jews were his Chosen People. The Jews. No other people were as chosen as they.

At the Moslem stall we learned that God was all-merciful and Mohammed is his only Prophet. Salvation comes form listening to God's Prophet.

At the Christian stall we discovered that God is love and there is no salvation outside the Church. Join the Church or risk eternal damnation.

On the way out I asked my friend, "What do you think of God?" He replied, "He is bigoted, fanatical, and cruel."

Back home, I said to God, "How do you put up with this sort of thing, Lord? Don't you see they have been giving you a bad name for centuries?"

God said, "It wasn't I who organized the fair. In fact, I'd be too ashamed to visit it"

While this is a nice-sounding story, I don't see any true substance to it.

  I say so because when you quote John 3:16-18 which says:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son"

  Now this verse does two inarguable, unnegotiable things:
- claims an exclusivity to the truth and assigns condemnation to all who refuse to accept the truth as it defines it. Isn't this being

bigoted, fanatical, and cruel

in the eyes of the world and all those who refuse to accept this truth as the bible states it? But yet it is the truth isn't it? This has little to nothing to do with "love".

ThiefOfHearts:
I watched it twice. 2nd time was me dragging my sister to see it and she ended up loving it.

hehe . . . now to drag the rest of the unbelievers on this thread to go and be entertained 

People left the threatre screaming they will never adopt. Lol

lol even me sef. I did read a couple of news stories about the movie and criticism from adoption agencies etc I have always wanted to adopt myself    I hope Esther the freak doesn't ruin it for me 

Esther's persistence drove me crazy towards the end lol.

she was brilliantly diabolically insane! and captivating to watch. Typecast? yeah a dangerous possibility, even I don't see her playing any "Miss Congeniality" or "Legally Blonde" roles anytime soon 

duduspace:
@Jesoul,
Is this some sort of segregation yu're starting on Nairaland? do yu mean non christians should not contribute?

Segregation was not the intention and I'm sure you know that  . I wanted to have a discussion with viewpoints from christians only for two reasons:

1. because they obviously are the only ones who judiciously & honestly read the bible can can give their opinions on the different versions
2. because many atheists here are known for gate-crashing christian threads and going off-topic and the essence of the thread gets distorted and lost. For example the thread is about the NIV bible version but you have gone in this direction:

Anyway's my two pence contribution is simply that god does a disservice to christians when he can't even come down to solve the issues having to do with the adulteration of his supposed words. We aren't talkin about people doubting him here but people who genuinely have faith like you. Bloke is definitely the author of confusion.

PastorAIO,

just a quick question. What is your opinion of the "Book of Enoch" you quoted? how do you treat/use such extra-biblical texts personally? What do you think is its importance/significance to us christians today? Thanks.

Pastor AIO:
I'm left wondering what you mean by the above. I see my name in there but what are you saying?

I think he meant in a light-hearted fashion not to take your title as a "pastor" seriously  .

Recognise:
Yes it is and the evidences are abound

Alright I will go to that website and cull a couple of the 'evidences' they cite and discuss them here.

The ". . . wouldn't trade versions like the NIV for the KJV . . ."

gave the impression that NIV is what you exclusively use

The unawareness of familiar spirits fuelled further the presumption

Given the choice btw the NIV or KJV, I'm going with the NIV. The KJV may be closer in kinship to the original texts, but what would that matter if one cannot understand it?

KJV, once gotten the hang off, is a doodle

Perhaps for you, not all of us can be as smart and dandy with Kings English 

By the way, those in the know, understand that "Suffer little childre to come unto me” and the likes

means "Tolerate, allow endure or permit little children to come unto me"

Unfortunately those "in the know" are not always the majority. The average person on the streets of naija I am willing to bet does not know "suffer" in that verse meant something else as evidenced in the anecdote told by PastorAIO.

Only 11?    wow, that is very impressive. The Russian accent was also cute atimes, lol and when she dropped the f-bomb lol was too funny. I hope she gets some significant roles.

I watched it online when it became almost definite the trip to movies wouldn't happen if you know what I mean. Had to search tire before I even found a decent quality copy.

Max was too adorable & her deafness made her even more appealing. The concept of a real life "Esther" is truly disturbing. I had to remind myself a few times "its just a movie, its just a movie"

@Karma,

       first off let me say to me this movie doesn't necessarily fall into the horror category. This was an intense drama, thick with suspense and I'll even say it is a borderline thriller. The script is clever, dark, disturbing, intelligent, entertaining, captivating and like I said it had me at the edge of my seat for the last 30 minutes.

 Orphan will suprise you, it is not just another run of the mill 'horror' flick. I daresay not much was cliche about this movie, except the stubborn, 'rational' husband who won't listen to his wife when it has been proven over and over that are women usually right. Anyways the acting of the main characters, including the children was simply fantastic. They all connect with the audience and pull you into their shoes to feel as they do. The way the events unfold, the manipulation of the members of the family by Esther are very well scripted. This positively psychotic, straight-up insane orphan chic may have a bright future in hollywood, lol. She delivered a stellar performance. The script can be predictable in some spots but hey which movie doesn't have a predictable scene here n there.

  The movie is well laid out and flows nicely. At 2hrs the movie is a lil long and I think they could've shaved off ~15-20mins but you don't really notice the time with all the drama going on  . I def recommend (thanks Karma!) this movie to anyone even if you're not into 'horror', this movie is more of a drama & thriller and simply put - fantastic!

 Overall rating for Orphan: 9 of 10.

Spiked,
    was it this "Orphan" you saw? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1148204/
there're a couple 'Orphan' titles out there cos you cannot possibly be talking about the same "Orphan" movie I watched and was at the edge of my seat for the last 30 mins 
review coming in a minute

Pastor AIO:
To read all the text go here
http://bible.org/article/why-i-do-not-think-king-james-bible-best-translation-available-today

Thanks for the link Pastor! Fascinating article with lots of things I wasn't aware of. Let me do some more reading and comment on them later. Thanks again.

Definately KJV is dangerous in Nigeria. I've just got back and I met a pastor who quoted "Suffer not a Witch to Live". For a start he kept quoting it wrong and saying "Suffer a witch to NOT live". For him Suffer meant that we had to torture witches and make them suffer in the modern sense of the word. He was one of those Mountain of Fire guys. I saw that to explain the original meaning of suffer to him would take too much time and effort and he still probably wouldn't get it.

   

davidylan:
this is grossly untrue. These scriptures were being read by the ancient church way before the RCC came on the scene. We know that copies of the old testament were kept in the temple and read in the synagogues. The gospels provide evidence of Christ reading from the book of Isaiah (no RCC existed then) and he also quoted from Deuteronomy and the book of Psalms.

Paul talks about his writings being copied and read among the churches too. Peter quotes some of the old testament writers too. Brother Jude also quotes the book of Enoch which is strangely missing from our copies of the bible.

David I didn't say the RCC wrote the scriptures nor did I insinuate it began with them and I'm not sure how you read that into my post. I simply said they had a hand in compiling the bible as we know it today, finish.

Whether or not he can afford it it not the issue. When some women place emphasis on these kinds of material, irelevant, pointless things I'm not sure why they'll begin to complain when their husbands treat them like property.

The concept of Dowry should be left behind in the 20th century where it belongs.

Recognise:
@JeSoul

- JeSoul

Why would anyone use the NIV and use it exclusively for that matter?

I don't use it exclusively - just mostly. I frequently use others like the NASB, NLT, KJV etc

Jay, am not quite sure how to gently drop this . . .

lol . . . whatever you have to say I'm sure I've heard it before, I've had this debate in the past.

What Zondervan Publishers won't DARE tell you is that they are OWNED by Harper Collins,

who also publishes The Satanic Bible and The Joy of Gay Sex. 

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone and a love for Christ that the world's largest Bible publisher (Zondervan) is owned by the same company, HarperCollins, that publishes The Satanic Bible and The Joy of Gay Sex." 

Every pastor and Christian using the NIV are supporting these demonic publications.

Why does it matter who 'prints' the bible? The same catholic/RCC church that most of us other christians believe to be evil are the ones who 'compiled' the bible. Yet we don't reject the scriptures just because of who had their hands on it at one point do we?

For an idea of the perversions of NIV (i.e. the New International perversion) Click here

I will submit very quickly that the KJV is the BEST and most ACCURATE and PURE and UNADULTERATED of versions.

That being said, I looked at a few of the 'NIV' errors in the link and while I do see what the author is saying - they are mostly sensationalized. When you move from one version to another you WILL have differences! you will omit and change certain phrases or words etc. This to me does not amount to damning evidence that the NIV is a conspiracy to water down the word of God.

  I personally switched to the NIV becos oftentimes I'd read something in the KJV, it'd make little sense, until I read it in the NIV and then go "oh! so that's what it was trying to say!". The KJ was translated using the language of another time, the NIV was translated using today's language. And I believe for the greatest chance of understanding they are both equally important.

Kay aint got your addy

.....   I'll take it off when you reply.

Recognise,
   I didn't want to continue off-topic on the other thread so I thought to start a new one. Can we discuss what exactly the problems are with the NIV bible compared to the KJV?

  Now I have had this debate with a few others in the past and my conclusion was that the 'differences' or 'omissions' to me are not nearly enough to dismiss the NIV hence why I still continue to use it. I attribute those problems to translational or transcriptional errors or shortcomings - not necessarily a conspiracy to water down the word of God and I don't see how the NIV presents a different or manipulated gospel from the KJV.

All other christians your input is more than welcome.

@Recognise,

you'd be suprised at how many things I don't know . That's why we need other believers around so we can sharpen each other and you've sharpened me just a lil bit today .

You're right in that the KJV is the "purest" of translations and a lot of the time the power with which certain phrases were spoken get watered down with each new translation. But I wouldn't trade the ease of understanding & simplicity of versions like the NIV for the KJV. Funny enough I was "brought up" with the KJV so I know all my memory verses in KJV lol. But yeah there's much merit to using all versions during study . . . something I should apparently do more of

and I am thrilled you enjoy the music that's a blessing to hear. If you're so inclined shoot me your email address and I'll send you some. Godbless!

Well I'll be damned Thanks Recognise, I haven't seen the exact phrase before because I am guilty of being an unrepentant NIV user which does not use the term 'familiar'. But yeah thanks for setting me straight.

Krayola2:
What if u're just not happy in a marriage, have no children, and both agree to go your separate ways. . .is that allowed?

Nah Krayola, to christians marriage is so much more than making yourself 'happy'. Your primary aim is to glorify God and serve your partner - this is where our 'happiness' or joy truly comes from.

  2 of my very close friends recently got divorced for the above reason of not being "happy" they were christians but what they did was wrong and going by the biblical directive, they cannot remarry another person, that would be sin and wrong before God. This is why you must shine your eye before you say "I do".

Gen2genius, I don't think I quoted Mat 5:32 anywhere, or did I?
I used Matt 19:9 "Jesus said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery," to say you can divorce on the grounds on cheating/infidelity. But either way issall good 

Abuzola:
You yourself know that the poster lied.

And FoxNews is lying too? here's your link. This story has been out for quite a while now.

Son of Hamas Leader Turns Back on Islam and Embraces Christianity

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,402483,00.html
https://www.copts.com/english1/wp-content/hamas_son.jpg
Mosab Hassan Yousef is an extraordinary young man with an extraordinary story. He was born the son of one of the most influential leaders of the militant Hamas organization in the West Bank and grew up in a strict Islamic family.

Now, at 30 years old, he attends an evangelical Christian church, Barabbas Road in San Diego, Calif. He renounced his Muslim faith, left his family behind in Ramallah and is seeking asylum in the United States.

The story of how his life unfolded is truly amazing, whether you agree or disagree with his views. Below is a transcript on an exclusive FOX News interview with Hassan as he tells firsthand how a West Bank Muslim became a West Coast Christian.

ilosiwaju:
Am not a prophet but please mark my words.
a. It's a way of knowing who and who is infected (bottom line=segregation/discrimination)

b. Method of Segregation: after any service, the announcer says: all members tested positive should wait behind for a special meeting with daddy G.O. it could be your time for healing.
Unfortunately, HIV positive people who feel they have nothing to lose wait behind to get a miracle raffle ticket. before you know it, they will have their own section in the church.
Let's wait and see, no be dis naija we dey?

Hmm . . . I guess one cannot rule out this unfortunate possiblity.

[quote author=Black_Revo link=topic=305837.msg4317164#msg4317164 date=1249673405]The way miracle has taken over Nigeria is very alarming.[/quote]Indeed it is. This be the reason so many unsaved people populate churches all looking for signs and wonders instead of looking for Jesus.

[quote author=Black_Revo link=topic=306910.msg4317114#msg4317114 date=1249672674]The Bible teaches that marriage is for life and cheating is not a reason for divorce.[/quote]Actually it is brotha.
Reason #1 - Adultery/Cheating
Jesus said, "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery"

you've already posted the relevant scriptures for the others
Reason # 2 - Death
Reason # 3 - Abandonment
Reason # 4 - (Unique circumstances such as Abuse) There are so many other unique circumstances that godly wisdom must be used to decide what the best course of action is. The bible doesn't give instructions for every scenario, but gives us general principles, wisdom and the holyspirit to help make difficult decisions.

This last passage is confusing to me because the pastor said he gave his life to Christ after his first divorce. The above passage deals with a situation when on party is a believer. Now for the pastors first marriage, was it a christian marriage and was any one of them a believer.

I believe the article said she left him for someone else after he became a christian. And according to 1 Cor 7:15 he is free to remarry.

What is the position of the bible when both are not believers?

Well they're not believers. Biblical directives for christian living don't apply to them do they? Its only after one becomes a christian that you concern yourself with God's laws.

Hmm Jesoul they just don't kick them out like that oooo, there are many behind the scenes which are very ugly about marriage in the churches in Nigeria which people don't want to speak about.

Let me give you a similar example to this pastor -  The redeemed pastor here in finland has a similar case as well. He came here some years ago got married to a Finn and divorced her (the Finns is still alive). He brought his wife from naija  or married someone from nigeria and brought her to finland which everyone knows about here. They are living together and in that same church so many people are doing the same thing i.e getting married to a white to get the papers divorce her and  later they  marry a naija girl back home and brings her here.

But mostly they do magistrate wedding with these white girls and someone from the Finnish Lutheran church officiates it

Hmm I see. Well I guess we should not be suprised. There's so much politics going on at these pentecostal churches its ridiculous. The marriage thing is done everywhere, I don't know how one can stand in front of the justice and make those vows all in the name of papers?    well I guess desperate times lead to desperate measures.

OLAADEGBU:
Watch what Afsin did to leave Islam and see what he had in place. See how he left darkness for light.

[center][flash=600,500]http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-8870177642686242029&hl=en&fs=true[/flash][/center]

I know this video is meant for the poster, but I watched the entire thing and was moved. It is powerful. And I like the way he challenges whoever is listening to search for themselves and see if indeed Jesus isn't the way the truth and life. Powerful video, straight powerful!

RCCG again.

[quote author=Black_Revo link=topic=306910.msg4316499#msg4316499 date=1249666568]The Redeemed Church does not support remarriage, except when one’s spouse is deceased[/quote]The Redeemed Church is not following the biblical directive - the bible gives death, if the other spouse leaves or cheats on you as grounds for divorce and remarriage.

According to the newspaper, Ibidunni and Itua tied the nuptial knot on 26 February 2007 and was followed by the traditional wedding three days later in Ibadan, Oyo State.

They have been married since 07' are he is just getting kicked out? that doesn't make any sense.

I think Nwankwo has said it all.

The end does not always justify the means. While the intent is noble - to save a life - the repercussions of going down this slippery slope of 'designing' your own baby are immense. Where does one then draw the line? like Nwankwo noted this is like opening Pandora's box, it could have serious and severe implications.

But I suspect the practice will not stop or subside, as long as people can argue a life is being saved it will be hard to disencourage. And I sympathize with those parents, I can see how the heart would overrule the ethical concerns.

Ibime:
You cant be so sure. . . Im collating your personal details right now

Aight, aight . . . *brings out the checkbook* . . . how much is this going to cost me? 

[quote author=~Sauron~ link=topic=306408.msg4315382#msg4315382 date=1249655406]www.nairaland.com/attachments/169619_jiook_jpg3f3037a268aafcc2128784e1eba66fc0

This is the next level. . . . . .
Blimey. . . . .this car is a potential target for em armed robbers.[/quote]ROTFLOL naija go kill me with laugh
As for armed robbers, I'm sure they have considered the possibility, I bet the collection box is probably made of reinforced steel

Krayola,
    I didn't know either how that term came to be, it is not in the bible. So I hopped over to wiki and found this, hope it helps. Apparently the term/concept did not originate in Nigeria.

A familiar spirit, imp, or familiar (from Middle English familiar, related to family) is an animal-shaped spirit who serves for witchery, a demon, or other magician-related subjects.

Familiars serve their owners as domestic servants, farmhands, spies, and companions, and may help bewitch enemies. Familiars are also said to inspire artists and writers (see Tutelary spirit, Power Animal and compare Muse).

Familiars are considered an identifying characteristic of early modern English witchcraft, and serve as one feature setting it apart from European witchcraft. For the western hemisphere, see Nagual.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Familiar_spirit

bawomolo:
jay cutler is better than eli. abeg its the defense and plaxico that won that championship

they are toast without usi and the other guy

Maybe, maybe not. We'll see in a few years. Talent does not always translate to success on the field. But still sha $97 mill for Eli? who was in charge of this deal?

mukina2:
buahahahah didnt know sign language had versions

nobody knew except the 25 men

Gee its going to take me a few days to catch up on all the posts. But anyways a NH man posted this on a local newspaper website:

“I hope NH is better than letting this guy off the hook. Let Obama know what ‘Live Free or Die’ means (hint: it isn’t reckless TAXING and SPENDING). Otherwise, Portsmouth will just be another glorified photo-op for the Socialist-in-Chief."

The next day he got a call from the Secret Service about his "comments" and implored him to use "caution" in future postings. So based on the new speech climate, I just want to put up this disclaimer so there's no misunderstanding:

I will no longer use honest, straightforward language in my discussions/criticisms of the current "Healthcare or is it now Health insurance Reform Bill at the risk of being "snitched on" and "turned in" and "reported" to the white house for "fishy" comments by the thought police or obamabots.
I doubt David or Ibime will turn me in, but I'm not so sure about Pres-elect   

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=301846.msg4311176#msg4311176 date=1249582897]Funny how you conviniently left that out in your original condemnation of the atheists, isn't it?[/quote]This is why I don't respond to you often.

This thread is about atheists. I responded about atheists. You expressed ire I didn't condemn christians. I went ahead and condemned the christians too. You've returned with more criticism why I didn't do so in the first place?

You are impossible & I humbly make my exit. Thank you.

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=301846.msg4310965#msg4310965 date=1249581039]Aren't christians guilty of the same as regards muslim threads or threads of other sects/denominations?? [/quote]Some christians. And they should be chastised just as much as the atheist gate-crashers. Topics should be respected, if you're not invited or part of the group the poster is soliciting responses from or there to only insult and mudsling, stay away or make your own topic - these are forum rules applying to all in this section.