₦airaland Forum

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]Its not the killing of a human . The baby in the womb is not yet formed and developed completely into a human. Being human is not just looking and being made up of the materials that constitute humans. Being human is to be involved in all the basic activities that humans do. and to be physically formed as well. For which zygotes and half-formed babies in womb do not qualify. Or else, In that case you could also say that your blood is alive and killing of your RBC's is murde[/quote]So a baby in the womb is not a developing human being? Do you realize that even a 3 month or 3 week old child is not yet involved in all the basic activities of life? Do you realize that a blind man is not a human being according to your standards?


[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]I neither value, nor de-value it. The life of a disabled person is of concern. but you are going off topic again.

We are talking about babies in the womb and new-born babies. The disabled person's suffering couldve been prevented if he were never born that way.

We humans let disabled foetus survive and then we face the consequences and pity them. it doesnt make any sense.[/quote]I watched on cnn some days ago about a southafrican disabled man who was the winner of the tennis championship. Its better to let them face the consequences and live and even have a chance at being happy like the ones who won trophies in the olympics for nigeria than kill them and deny them a chance to live and even term them as non-human. That is wickedness.





[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]Is that all you have to say? My words are not borne of ignorance. They are based on FACTS.

Centuries of christian brainwashing, lies and racism. This has all combined and given rise to the by-product - Hitler.

Hitler was twisted and wicked BECAUSE he was christian. Accept that fact.

He didnt invent no jesus. He was a byproduct of jesus.

A son of man-god.[/quote]irrelevant. Based on falsehood. If hitler was a by-product of Jesus, then I am a space monkey. By products of Jesus are people like Mary Slessor.

Lol. They have switched to personal attacks after lalalalalaing because they couldn't refute what I have said.

OlaoChi: hey you what's funny?

evening.

Meilyn is funny.

rationalmind: and he thought I got emotional.

No, I had to address your BS using the strongest possible words while trying to avoid a ban.

lol. After saying song of solomon is not basic he reverts to nonsense.

[quote author=Garri_is_back]I try as much as possible to avoid this section but i just have to say this.

Bro, If you think you are 'fighting' them you are wasting your time. You can't. Attempting to debunk darwinism or evolution is no proof of God or Christianity. Relgion for the most part is faith and that can hardly pass for evidence.

I have been visiting in the past 1 week and i noticed the Atheist here have quadrupled. The more you engage them, the more people see they might have a point.

Just thought i should drop a word. And oh, I am not an Atheist, I am a christian but you are really failing at whatever you are trying to achieve. Anony did a better job.[/quote]of course attempting to debunk darwinian evolution is no proof of God, only proof of its incoherence.


And people will continue to deconvert to atheism and convert to christianity.

And I have heard well. Anony did a better job. Good for him.

striktlymi: What truth exactly?? Which version do you propose he tells the world??

Should he go about to tell us that God hates every gay person on the planet? Or do you propose that he tells us that every Atheist will burn in hell? I guess you would rather he tells you exactly what you want to hear. That is NOT the way of Christ.

I have never and would never advocate the hatred of anything or anyone sir.

The pope should tell the world that Jesus saves too. That is the core message of the church.

He is showing love effectively and proudly as a saint, but he is refusing to tell the world that Jesus saves, and he is telling people that religion saves.

mazaje: PLEASE who here understands the NONSENSE and GIBBERISH Joshthefirst is saying?. . .As some one said if your god exist then he really needs to be ashamed of you. . .Imagine an all powerful god sending someone like Josh to make a case for him. . . .Men!!!!!. . . .Sometimes you really need to read some of the nonsense you are typing to see if it makes any sense to you. . .You are a perfect evidence to show that your god is imaginary and exist only in your mind, i fully assure, you. . No god that truly exist will send a complete failure like you to make his case for him. . .No god that exist will do that. . .

emotional ramblings and butthurt. After all these years you still don't know how to effectively represent your position.


If I was an atheist, I'd be much better than you guys abeg. Tufiakwa.

rationalmind: Re-read the above and see how empty you sound. You are profoundly good at stringing lots of words together with absolute no substance.

How do you manage to achieve such a "record breaking feat"?

You prefer the nonsensical verses in the book of solomon and the hundreds of other nonsensical verses to a single verse on quantum mechanics.

How does those silly verses of solomon help man in his basic nature.

Yahweh if at all he exists must be ashamed of you

why are you getting this emotional now?

And if you think the verses of solomon that deal with mans sexual and eros nature is not basic, I fear for you...wait, I'm not even surprised sef.
One of the most basic physical nature of man is what you're calling irrelevant, chei. Do you want me to start choking again?

For those interested, the songs of solomon talk of love and sex, God created both, and made them very basic and pure and sweet. And in that book, he teaches on how to educate man and woman and show them how to be pure even in love and sex.


Abeg shift. Your thread has been inconsequential from the very beginning.

plaetton: Sharrap!
Your job is to entertain intelligent people here.
Do not attempt any serious discussions, otherwise I will smack your already battered-from-butt-hurt behind.

Yup our jobs are to entertain intelligent people here. You are my oga, my brother in arms. You keep me in my place beside you.

Thank you oga.
Please teach me that funny way of escaping you designed. It must entertain the masters very well.

Sorry, but truth is universal and must apply to all men. Darwinian evolution is foolish idiocy.

I'm tired of adressing nonsense posers. This is the same thing plaetton was saying; we might as well launch ourselves into space to solve the corruption problems of nigeria then. Nonsense.

If you think I failed woefully, I don't mind what you think. But anyone who has a truly rational mind will laugh at you and even ignore this thread, as some have.

Speculation and quantum mechanics will help man in his basic nature I hear.

And if you still think the bible does science does not even confirm the bible sometimes, continue on in your ignorance. Mulitple threads have been opened to adress that issue.

Sometimes I sitback and think of the nonsense some of these guys say and almost choke.

aManFromMars: DeepSight's posers do not demand answers, but rather speculations. He loves to play with his thoughts, unfortunately plaet, lb, eb et al don't have time for such. Lol.

sorry, but can't you see why the others just dodged and dodged and brought in countermeasures and ran away? Its because the questions would cause them to think.

Plaetton on the other hand went ahead and gave some form of answers that ridiculed his position and automatically made him a disgrace to evolutionists worldwide. I was appalled and striken by his ignorant words at first, but in the end, I'm not surprised.


Today, plaetton has done great harm to his position and discouraged aspirers who used to somewhat listen to his opinion. he should refrain from posting anything concerning evolution anymore. Or he should be sedated by his ogas before he does any other major damage to their reputations.

DarqChild: Not really but I'm just bringing up the messages from the Bible and the words of the Pope which seems to be contradicting each other. His words are clearly saying that the Bible is false in its whole truth and message. That tends to put a sort of smear in Christendom as a whole and puts its authenticity in question. The Bible made mention that someday this would definitely happen and that the consequence will be drastic. Do you get where I'm driving at now? Its a bit scary don't you think?

its not to him actually. He's an atheist.

Trying to embrace a man will not change him much. The pope must learn to tell men the truth. The roman catholic church must learn to tell men the truth.

Telling them the truth of the bible will change them.

Cheers01: cry......cry......let me taste your butthurt

you're deceiving yourself if you think I butthurt. You are the guys who most probably tear your entrails out in butthurt over any issue on God. Dem send una?

The "good" samaritan is just a coined up name. Jesus gave it as an example of a man showing love. Simple.

Jesus himself said "there is none good".

And sin is wrong-doing. We all know its definition. Stop forming.

aManFromMars: Lol. Need tissue?

I'm just alarmed at the unbridled hypocrisy going on on this thread.

Cheers01: https://images.sodahead.com/polls/002845705/143127752_I_Sense_Butthurt_75000244666_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

I sense a troll.


Why can you only make epileptic arguments. I don't even know why DS and others bother to reply you sometimes.

Kay 17: I did not intend a reply to this.

The transcendental world is non material, non physical, antithetical to the physical, hence the physical cannot be a natural product/effect of its antithesis.

is this world entirely physical? Are you entirely physical? Is God entirely spiritual? Is God not a mental being too?

Sorry, your argument is flawed.

And the final cause, who is self-existent must be above and not held bound by the physical universe.

Foolish people claiming to think outside the box when infact they have already fashioned and are thinking from a box of foolish speculations of men for themselves.

Hypocrites claiming that one must know every part of their foolish theory before questioning it and noticing flaws.

Id.iocy.

Kay 17: Both the zygote and spermatozoa are cells and can be regarded as such life. It is murky saying human life, rather what type of cells are they -- human cells-- human life will be appropriate for a fully functional multicellular being

Sperm cells upon the condition of fertilizing an egg, they develop into humans, that is irrelevant since we are concerned about what they are, not what they would be

is a sperm cell a developing human being? Is a zygote a developing human being?

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]Its not really killings. Its just abortion. You can call it killing if you want to.

Doesnt change the fact that it is necessary under many circumstances.

Yes I am.

No I don't.

what is so valuable about human life? THe amount of destruction we cause to the environment?
I think this is a fundamental question that needs to be answered.




You are a blatant lie yourself!

It is a well-known fact that the christian church in europe was involved in the purgatory and annihilation of jews since Medieval times.
This bias is due to the fact that christians believe the Jewish Sarheddin had a major had in jesus' death.


HItler was a true christian. Hitler remained a formal member of the Catholic church until his death, and even ordered his chief associates to remain members.

In 1922, a decade before his ascension to power, Hitler stated before a crowd in Munich:

My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was his fight against the Jewish poison. Today, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed his blood upon the Cross. As a Christian, I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice."


HItler had christian roots , which is what initially drove him to the acts, though later on in life, he became indifferent to christianity.


Hitler held strong faith in all his convictions. He justified his fight for the German people and against Jews by using Godly and Biblical reasoning. Indeed, one of his most revealing statements makes this quite clear:

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

Although Hitler did not practice religion in a churchly sense, he certainly believed in the Bible's God. Raised as Catholic he went to a monastery school and, interestingly, walked everyday past a stone arch which was carved the monastery's coat of arms which included a swastika. As a young boy, Hitler's most ardent goal was to become a priest. Much of his philosophy came from the Bible, and more influentially, from the Christian Social movement. (The German Christian Social movement, remarkably, resembles the Christian Right movement in America today.) Many have questioned Hitler's stand on Christianity. Although he fought against certain Catholic priests who opposed him for political reasons, his belief in God and country never left him. Many Christians throughout history have opposed Christian priests for various reasons; this does not necessarily make one against one's own Christian beliefs.


Hitler's anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Christian Austria and Germany in his time took for granted the belief that Jews held an inferior status to Aryan Christians. Jewish hatred did not spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. [/b]The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book, "On the Jews and their Lies," Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War II. [b]Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther.

Hitler did not have to parade his belief in God, as so many American Christians do now. Nor did he have to justify his Godly belief against an Atheist movement. He took his beliefs for granted just as most Germans did at that time. His thrust aimed at politics, not religion. But through his political and religious reasoning he established in 1933, a German Reich Christian Church, uniting the Protestant churches to instill faith in a national German Christianity.

Future generations should remember that Adolph Hitler could not have come into power without the support of the Protestant and Catholic churches and the German Christian populace.


" The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present-day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation. "

-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)[/quote]the termination of a baby in the womb is not killing? Why? How?

Nice to know you do not value human life. This debate is pointless then, since you do not value human life. The life of a child, or a disabled person is irrelevant to you.



And your words on hitler are borne of ignorance. Hitler was an anti-christian and a twisted, wicked man. Majority of historians agree on the fact that his long term objective was the eradication of christianity, and even debate to see if he was an atheist. He hated the bible God and the bible and wrote another bible and invented another Jesus.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler

Logicboy03: In a bid to make people have sensible notions about abortion.

there is nothing sensible in taking a babies life.

Uyi Iredia: Indeed, it appears there are limits to what God could create. For example 4- spacetime and nothing more, no more possible dimensions that can be thought of in real terms eg up-down, left-right etc. Laws of Logic which can't be contradicted. An omnipotency whuch means he CANNOT die. In fact, God cannot make a greater God. I smell impossibilities with God people overlook.

illogic and irrelevant. God is not foolish.

rationalmind: Lol, we shall see who is irrational



Okay?



Like I mentioned to deepsight, you people are arguing from the wrong assumption that the bible was written solely for people who lived when it was written. Since I've already addressed that, I'll move on to something else.

So, God could talk about how he created adam from clay and how he created eve from his ribs but couldn't talk about the big bang. Lol. Do you realise there are over 31,000 verses in the bible. Why would a single verse talking about evolution and the big bang be wrong considering the lots of irrelevant verses present in the book of solomon alone.

verses on the origin of life and nature of things are sited everywhere in the bible, especially in genesis. The bible was not just written for us, it was written for them too, and in a way they would accept and understand, not in a way that would confuse them. With our more potent knowledge of today, the genetic and scientific implications of the account of genesis makes even more sense. I can give examples. In your case, you read from face value and dismiss everything.

rationalmind: I had already addressed these banal points. In addition, do you know the billions of dollars been wasted into research yearly researching about evolution and the big-bang all in a bid to make the world a better place? Why do we have to waste so much money and time when a chapter in the bible will be all we needed. Do you know the number of deaths scientific ignorance alone caused in the dark ages? All these were not necessary for your God to intervene but when people started practising idolatory which is even relatively more peaceful than what we have now, your God needed to intervene

the death rate of today is much worse than all the death rates of the past put together. And most of the research we do is just to feed our curiosity as humans. Corrupt people are stealing and exploiting, and we should talk of evolution and the big bang? In old days, people were commiting violent homosexuality and pagan prostitution and child sacrifice and we should talk of the big bang to them.

rationalmind: I had already addressed this. Check my response to deepsight.



I can't see anything worth responding to again other than you usual failed rants.

And since you said science doesn't negate the christian faith, you can start by telling us how science observes, tests and make predictions about the resurrection of Jesus.

you can also start by telling me how science proves that abraham lincoln existed.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]This is going out of context. What Olaochi implied was that the baby is not yet fully developed, both mentally and even physically.[/quote]so we should kill it? And eat it? Because it is not yet fully developed to scream for its life and fight for its right to live? Are you fully developed mentally? Do you value human life?

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]Germany is not a tribal society. its original laws have been fvced up after the advent of christianity.[/quote]this is pure bias against christianity and a blatant lie.

During the time of hitler and the holocaust, about 11 million people were killed, including 6 million jews. And it was legal, according to the laws of germany. Infact, hitler was anti-christian.

Even though DS has already whipped you, I will whip you harder, so that you will never stray into the path of irrational thoughts again.

rationalmind: This has got me thinking for sometime. While debating religionists and issues of evolution and the big bang arises, most religionists tend to say they believe in micro-evolution(changes within species) but not macro-evolution(changes outside species). They also tend to generally accept the big bang theory with the caveat that God must had been behind it.

generally, yes.

rationalmind: Here is where the question lies, let's even agree micro-evolution is true and macro is wrong and that God started the Big-Bang, how come there is no single mention of evolution in all religious books? How come there is no single mention of the big-bang in religious books (except some very pathetic twists of quranic verses)?

why will God teach people who were in dire circumstances and non-contemporary earth about the big bang and origins of a universe he claims he will soon destroy? Why sould he begin to distract them from the basic issues he sought to handle with humanity; sin and salvation? Why will God meet a human being and start talking about the big bang to him? Nawa for you o.

rationalmind: God had all the time to talk about slavery, genocide, sacrifices, idolatory but couldn't simply talk about evolution and the big-bang.

do you know what the above you have mentioned were doing to people at that time? Do you know what idolatry was doing to nations? Do you know people were sacrificing their children? Do you know people were brutalized in slavery? Why would God start talking about evolution and the big bang and ignore the judging and adressing of all these unspeakables?

rationalmind: Why did we have to wait so long for darwin? Why did we have to wait so long for George Lemaître?

you need to be given a knock on your head. You do not even know what darwinian evolution entails.
And as ds has said, very many scientific strongholds were understood by religious men.

rationalmind: If history is anything to go by, it is that God/Allah has done or said nothing of note as regards earth and life forms only to promise fantasies of heaven.

God has given people hope and enabled men to forgive, and of course, God has given us sure promises of a new world and salvation from this dying one. If you want to remain here, feel free. Inspite of this contemporary earths technological advancement, the death rate is more, and people are living in worse conditions than then.

rationalmind: Its on the basis of the above I'll always cast my lot with science despite the presence of dark n grey areas and will encourage everyone to do so.

the above is pathetic from you. And your blind faith in unreasonable speculations is not science. Science is rational and reasonable and helps and in no way does it negate the christian religion, infact, it confirms it. Darwinian evolution has never and can never be confirmed as it is impossible to relive the "hundreds of millions o' years"

rationalmind: God/Allah, Bible/Quran has always never been there when we need them the most.

nonsense. God has and will always be there when people trust in his mercy and strength. Billions of people with a personal testimony bear witness.


In conclusion, your thread has failed woefully.

Mr Troll: (c) he's living in denial.

go and see the shameless two-faced pathetic contradictions he's making on the sexua.l reproduction thread. He is a disgrace to evolution scientists and subscribers to evolution.

plaetton: Shut up Josh, you slowpoke.
This topic is way above your mental level.
There is no way I could possible address you on any issue regarding biological evolution. It would be too embarrassing for me.
That is the painful price one pays for being on the religilous section.

If you can read and comprehend, you would has noted that it was your hero, Deepsight, who invoked the" Evolutionary impetus" thing. I was actually fearful and skeptical about of using that word in the same manner that he did.

nonsense as usual. You hide behind windy words and inflate your ego. As usual. Without saying anything reasonable. As usual.

You make a dunce statement showcasing your confusion and contradicting your own position and blame another person for it.

Well done sir.

plaetton: Show you what?
Reproductive efficiency is the evolutionary impetus for the division of the sexes.

just look at yourself sir. Your very hypocritical self.

Even as you claim evolution occurs, does an impetus or drive not betray and contradict your very position of non-conscious non-directed randomness? If this random non-driven process occurs, do you realize the amount of genetic complications and mutagenous catastrophies all life would be prone to because of its lack of drive?

Now you claim there is an impetus of evolution, that there is efficiency to be achieved. Who then? What then? Is behind this drive, that is seen even at the most fundamental levels of life?




And should one know every single thing about this theory before asking questions and becoming skeptical? When you are skeptical and sometimes vehemently hateful towards any form of a religious position you know nothing of like the traditional alchemy, you are not to be harassed, but when we do so about the obviously overbearing leap of faith scientists have made and speculated, you attack in hypocrisy.

When you actually decide to ponder well before you post nonsense contradictions that betray your very hypocritical positions, people will begin to take you seriously sir. Until then sir, you are simply a crafty joker, or a disgrace to the evolutionists because of dishonesty and contradictions. With all due respect sir.

mazaje: When and where did I admit that I do no wrong or that I am perfect? . . .

when you denied sin.

mazaje: Which hypocrisy and honesty are you talking about and how can I not differentiate btw them?. .

you and your cohorts blame christian religion for nigerians backwardness and claim every wrong-doing done by a man who professes to be a christian debunks christianity, ignoring the countless people who uphold the christian faith in righteousness and integrity. Remember you are the one who brought up the reality of sin here, nopt me, you chose this drift.

mazaje: How do I hide behind atheism to ignore basic aspects of life, what basic aspect of life are you talking about?. . . .

human nature and its corruption.

mazaje: How has atheism done harm to humans?. . .How does it hamper human development?. . .

atheism has told us religion is our problem, when infact human nature is. You have distracted us with fantasizing about no-god and evolution, you have told us morality is subjective and supported the notion that morality hinges on personal opinion, resulting in chaos in society.

mazaje: The only tool that man uses to gain real and true knowledge of himself and his surrouding is science and science is atheistic in nature since it dwells and makes its conclusions on a naturalist world view. . .How has the knowledge of Jesus christ being god help humanity to gain any knowledge or develop as a race?. . .

the knowledge of Jesus christ saving us from sin has given men hope and inspired men to stand in integrity for good and righteousness in this nation and many other places countless times. Has enabled men to sacrifice.




Please stop all this fanatical attacks that will do us no good except give the next generation more reason to continue in imperfection and corruptive wrongdoing.

mazaje: You keep talking about this elusive truth. . Which truth?. . .The truth that there is no god but allah and mohammed is his last messenger or the truth that the universe was created by the hindu gods and goddesses?. . .Which truth are you talking about?. . .

the truth that no one is perfect and everyone does wrong including you. That basic truth is very real and grabs mens attention. The only one I see living in fantasy and speculation and magical thinking is you and your cohorts who cannot differentiate between hypocrisy and honesty, who hide behind atheism and intellectualism to ignore the basic aspects of their lives and existence, hampering human development and doing harm to themselves and their brains and lives.

mazaje: This one is here again, why is my reasoning of god false, pathetic and puerile?. . .

mazaje: Yeah like the reality of sin responsible for everything, eh?. . . . . .

See what I said? Human nature will continue to be evil, can never be reformed. All your mockery and talk will not change the fact that the accumulative wrongdoing and false thinking of what mankind does at home and in public is what results in corruption, atheism, and religious hypocrisy. The point of this thread is irrelevant against this truth. Logic is powerless against this. Science is powerless against this.