₦airaland Forum

Goshen360: The simple analogy is, JOAGBAJE is wrong to say WITH OUT THE LAW, THERE IS FOUNDATION FOR RIGHT AND WRONG. Scripture proves him wrong because wrong and right are happening BEFORE the law.

People killed before the law and God said it wasn't right. People committed homosex.uals before the law, God said it was wrong. Why then should someone say the law is what gives foundation for right and wrong? The same taught on a thread that THE LAW WAS ABOLISHED

People of the law wants to hide behind the law of moses to still take advantage of Christians while they want to hang unto some and discard some.

Sir, I believe there is the law written in stone, and there is its copy written in Men's consciousness, the absolute law of God.

JonesK: @Joshthefirst, do you believe every man has a destiny?

yes I do. I believe man was created for a purpose, I believe every man's destiny is predetermined by his creator.

I also believe that man can choose to walk in his destiny, and find his purpose, or rebel against his creator and refuse to fulfill his divine destiny.

Kay 17: @joshthefirst
1. Hope you realise Hell is part of the punishment, it sounds strange that you claim the punishment is for the good of man. Consequently suffering is for the good of man? (I partially believe suffering is necessary for man, however Christianity sees it different, and it becomes a contradictory for it to approve of suffering)

hell was not strictly for man. The "lake of fire" is eternal punishment created first for the angels that rebelled against God. Then for all who are rebellious. And Yes. Imagine if God had refused to evict man from the garden. Imagine if he allowed man to live forever. No. Imagine if as we are in this present world, we could live forever. It would be worse than hell. God gave punishment, for the benefit of mankind, in general, and even, in the case of suffering, personally. Suffering can make us better sometimes. Christianity sees suffering as the product of sin. And also as a way God uses to correct, and teach, and refine us humans who submit to him.

Kay 17: 2. Freewill mean free will, you desire/will anything. There is no bound will or obligations. If there are such, you can break it. Sometimes to turn away from authority is to fulfill the desire to be one's self. Man cast his destiny as he wishes, rather than what God wishes.

Yes.

But in regards to the bolded, turning away from Gods authority, is not in any way born out of any such desire to be "one's self". It is born out of lust and selfish and sinful rebellion. And yes. Man chooses his destiny. Freewill enables man to be able to choose what God has ordained for him, and find satisfaction and Joy in fulfilling his purpose. Or rebel against what God has ordained, and even against Gods nature and universe, and be punished.

God did not want to create robots who cannot realize , who cannot choose. He created men, with freewill, with intelligence with powerful mind. But with freewill comes dangerous power, and the possibility of rebellion.

This is the world God created.
He is God.

macof: And you think Energy doesn't have a purpose and personality? Energy has the highest level of consciousness and it very much aware of human activities.
Wat do you think controls karma? it's energy.

energy that is not harnessed is non-conscious and even destructive. Has no purpose, is non-directed. Not alive.

^^^
Link.

What Uyi said about medicine is false.

@striktly: nothing makes a course "minor". I was just portraying nigerian's attitudes to those kind of courses.

Good evening.

Kay 17: The bolded excerpt of your post reveals that sin is actually a crime -- divine crime. Unlike what most posters say herein, destruction and suffering are not the natural consequences of sin, rather God imposes suffering and destruction as punishments for sins. In other words, to sin is not cause one's self harm, rather attract God's punishment.

I would use Adam as an example. God ordered Adam not to eat the fruit, and contrary to the order/law, Adam did. Adam's sin does not throw him out of the Garden, rather God did as punishment

yes, and this punishment was for his own good. And for the good of creation. Man could not enjoy a freestate while under the new bondage of sin, with a corrupt nature prone to rebellion. God as a just judge would never allow sin to be unpunished, he'd never put man in the tyranny of life without redemption.

Kay 17: The next issue is: would there be sin without God.

No, because the law has its justification in God's power and nothing else. In other words, God is just saying his own!

Therefore if man has freewill, he can legitimately will whatever he wants without regard for God's interest.

no. Gods interest is central to the matter. It is his universe, his will, his rules, his judgements, his patterns. We cannot use our freewill against his purpose. That would be rebellion against the designer, the head, the authority. Our freewill is to find joy in fulfilling his purpose.

macof: Josh. A being doesn't have to be living like a beast of organic features

Being refers to anything that is. I like to define it as a 'state of being' if you understand wat I mean

I understand, that is even one of the definitions of being, what I have given is the definition of the being I think is the creator. And I have argued that the universe and the nature of raw energy itself supports the fact that the creator whom we call God is a being in the sense of being a conscious person having purpose and personality

So do you agree with me?

You are ignorant of scripture, and using the position of scripture that you mostly do not even believe or subscribe to to argue your point.

And what you said about african traditional religion is a lie.

Men will continue to disagree. On religious matters, on irreligious matters. Men will continue to be wicked. Human nature is very imperfect.

Some of the very leaders who call for unity, propagate hatred and dispensions among their following. Resorting to vile means of blackmail and bloodshed. This is a known fact.


Thread failed.

Anyone who says religion is the cause of man's problem in its basic sense is a blatant liar.
Human nature is the cause of man's problems.


The acknowledging of God and/or the supernatural has nothing to do with man's problems. Exploiting of men and human ideologies by imperfect, selfish, twisted human beings happens with every religious/irreligious fantasy or reality.





And if we're speaking of disadvantages to man, atheism itself, which renders a man immoral, as most atheists argue that there is no moral basis, and that morality is subjective to individual concepts and notions and immorality is undefined, are the worst enemies of mankind by far .

Okay, let's summarize and possibly end this.
On the issue of civilizations existing during the projected period of the genesis flood, there are no records of civilizations going back as far as that period, except for archaeological records, which base dating on the same faulty and not-completely-accurate radiocarbon dating.

So its either unacceptable that civilizations existed at that time,
Or,
The noah's ark was a myth that never existed.
Or it was a local flood.

Arguments from bias will never change anyone's positions.

On the question of region secluded animals, we're discussing the possibility of a global flood as recorded in the bible book of genesis. If this flood possibly occurred, as recorded in detail in the bible, then the landscape must have changed post-flood. You cannot argue on the basis of contemporary land seclusion when the landscape was different pre-flood.
Good.


On the very question of if species can diversify this much in about 4500 years,
First, we must establish the fact that if this flood was global as the bible puts it, these animals went outside to a new world as I have said, with different climates, soil, and ridden with "post-flood-flood" catastrophies about to happen/happening. These animals would have to adapt, thereby speciating, or die.
And there is more than enough observable evidence of organisms speciating and adapting greatly in numbers, in much shorter periods, talk less of 6000 years,
This evidence is from an evolutionist website, so you cannot claim it is biased(funny how it is biased when coming from creationist websites but it isn't when coming from evolutionist websites. Pathetic hypocrisy and dogma)

http://phylointelligence.com/observed.html#novel_organ

And to top it up, fossil records show that animals were much more prolific in the past, meaning reproduction, and thus adaptation was sped up.

For those talking of silly things like mosquitoes and viruses, you are either joking, or are foolish, speaking from bias, and not to be taken seriously.

For those who argue about the number of people contemplating building the tower post-flood period, read the bible. Your answer is there. If you still don't see it, come back here and we'll show you.


And for the interest of people who are confused on me using speciation and adaptation, thinking I support evolution, this just shows that I and other people like OLA, who do not agree completely with the theory, have been dismissed and analysed with intense bias and dogmatic hypocrisy, since you ask us such questions. It means you have been angry with us, and arguing with us about our non-acceptance of the theory, without even caring to understand our basic positions.

I believe in Speciation. It has been proved. It is scientific.
I believe in adaptation, it is a cause of speciation, and a common part of our everyday life.
I do not believe in speculative change above the level of speciation, change of kind. Nullifying common descent of all kinds from a common ancestor. It cannot be proved scientifically, and it is a preposterous and foolish guess, a self-destructive speculation that makes men more confused.
So I believe in speciation, and adaptation. If these changes(they are) that occur when organisms change to survive better in their environments are the basic definition of evolution, then I am an ardent evolutionist, and the bible is too.
But the speculation of change above the kind level is utter foolishness and is not even to be discussed. And if this unscientific propositions are what evolution is now defined as, then count me out of this foolishness.

Thank you and God bless.

Abortion is always wrong, but we cannot force someone to stop. We can only discourage and advise.

macof: This is where people get it wrong

They only want to see a white old man living in space

PAGAN 9JA: Its because of that silly bible/quran quote - "God created us in HIS image".

Are you people blind? When have I even brought up the bible here? Talk about shooting blanks and patting themselves on the back. Did you not see this:

Joshthefirst: this is the definition of being I mean.
Being:
3.
a. A person: "The artist after all is a solitary being" (Virginia Woolf).
b. All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence.
c. One's basic or essential nature; personality.
Do good to search the dictionary first before demeaning in ignorance.

Ranchhoddas: Too many brain-dead people on this thread...i give up.

I've seen this many times. Its actually how atheists argue. When presented with facts and challenged to reason even scientificallt, they claim the person is brain dead and run away from the argument. Classic. Classic foolishness.

I've shown you fact that china's history only goes back as far as about 3000 years, contrary to the blatant lies you and mazaje were heralding. At least he ran away, unlike you. He knew better.

FOLYKAZE: When did conscious entity becomes a person?

Religion is really a bad thing mehn.

this is the definition of being I mean.

Being:

3.
a. A person: "The artist after all is a solitary being" (Virginia Woolf).
b. All the qualities constituting one that exists; the essence.
c. One's basic or essential nature; personality.


Do good to search the dictionary first before demeaning in ignorance.

Our current givernment is not perfect, yes. They have their flaws, yes. But I would rather support them. There are visible developments at least. Rail, our airports, roads, power, agriculture, youwin, economy, things are changing inspite of its flaws.

We still have corruption though, and many flaws, but I will never support the opposition, they have proven themselves to be liars and criticizers of everything good. They have some of the worst and most corrupt politicians as their heads, people like one who ruled for 8 years, who bled nigeria and never did anything good for this nation, people who steal and exploit. People who when in power, never achieved anything, like the former aviation minister. How do they expect us to trust them after they have shown their true colours in their time? God forbid. This same demons now pretend to show interest in the majority of nigerian's welfare. I don't think so. They should carry their interests elsewhere. Shameless jokers, do they think nigerians are stup.id?

No. I'm reasonable.
Majority of us are not tribalistic bigots supporting the division of nigeria and the segregation of power, we support visible progress.

I'd rather throw my hat with people who have actually achieved visible developments than with people who have killed many and caused starvation after stealing from the common man.

2014 will tell though. This year, the opposition might gain much supportance, but its most likely that they will be even more confused.

Nigeria is on the brink of change.

olubuffett: This is an excerpt of an email to Ray (way of the master) from an atheist.

Ray,

You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.

If you believe one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unreachable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.

Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring.

James Franz

you forgot to add Ray's response.

I can't get it now, but I've read it before:
Ray responded that for forty years he didn't sleep completely at night. He woke up and cried and prayed to God for sinners, he said he preaches everyday for them to escape the wrath to come because of iniquity. And others do it too.

Hell is real. We know the terror of God, but we also know his forgiveness and love. Repent today.

The terror paul knew is what made him get up after being beaten nearly to death and enter the same city of his tormentors to preach the message.
Hell is real. We stand everywhere, preaching this message. Embrace Christs salvation.

I'll get Ray's response later. Its unfair of you to show the letter without showing the passionate response.

@ plaetton: you don't know what christianity is, and yes, atheists are immoral.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]they dont belong to you. all christians are hypocrites anyways.[/quote]you know its a lie. Stop bringing bias into your conclusions.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]you said beings like us.

so what kind of being?[/quote]I didn't mean a direct comparison, I meant a conscious entity, a person.

[quote author=PAGAN 9JA]^God is a humanbeing

These manworshippers sef. . [/quote]show me where I implied God is a human being?

Being is not equal to human being.

Lol. I take it you're joking.

Energy in motion, is not conscious, does not have direction. It must be harnessed. The consciousness and direction we see in the universe implies a conscious and purposeful God. The fine-tuning of universal constraints to make life possible cannot be ignored. This is not "godidit".

This is the fact that the universe itself implies a conscious and purposeful creator. We call him God. He is not an ignorant answer to our questions, he is an acknowledgement of a very sane and seeing man.



So I disagree with you macof. God is not energy. God is a being, like us. He is the Cause.

And the fact that humans paint this "God" in their image does not nihilize his "Being" and his objective attributes.

@ Pagan : Lol. You rationalize cold-blooded murder by claiming a developing child in the womb is not human. Chei. We're talking of human life here, not chicken life. How can you compare a baby with a chicken for pete's sake?

I will never cordone abortion.

But I will never force a woman to keep a child either. I believe in this case, it is the woman's choice to murder just as much as it is my choice to refuse to steal. I will advice her not to waste a child for its fathers crimes, or to shamelessly call the child sub-human to justify killing it.

Abortion is always wrong, but in this case, it is the womans choice

In this case I say, which is not general and very rare normally.

Over 53 million babies have been killed in the States alone, not all of them were offspring of rape, or inbreeding, or a risk to their mother's health, only a minority of them were.(Even less than a minority)

Most of them were killed for selfish reasons.

[quote author=phuck_NL]If carbon dating goes as far back as tens of thousands of years alone, doesn't that disprove your 4300 yrs story then?
Not that I agree with you though cos I know carbon dating is accurate.[/quote]lol. Consider the earths magnetic field. Why would you be so dogmatic in accepting it? Does the truth threaten you?

mazaje: The kind of species we are talking about do not evolve in 6000 years. . .What do you mean by give rise to new species?. . .Are you now in support of evolution or what?. . .It is very obvious that the animals in the ark assuming the story is true could not give rise to all the animals we see today unless true evolution. . .

I believe in speciation and adaptation.

mazaje: Scientific dating are 95% accurate. . .Can you provide your own scientific method of dating that sdhows that mount everist is 6000 years old?. . .

this is a lie. Scientific dating is not completely reliable. Carbon dating can only go as far back as tens of thousands of years, this is also ignoring the earths decaying magnetic field.

mazaje: There is NO evidence at all for any global flood, stop going to christian apoligist sites to copy rubbish. . .I have watched christian geolgist debates the quacks in answers in genesis about the imporbability of a global flood. . .Real geologist that are christians know it is impossible and have since declared it a regional flood just to keep faith alive. . .many are already saying its an allegory. . .

I have shown you what you will expect from if global flood ever happens, and we see our world in agreement with this evidence. Have you read the link? All you're doing is appealing to authority. Nonsense.

mazaje: Not most civilizations, it is very false. . .Civilizations that live close to water have flood myths. . .The first flood story ever written is the epic of gilgamesh. . .That is where the ancient jews copied their story from. . .There is no evidence for you because we have uniterupted written history fro india, china, from the mayans etc. . .If the Noah's flood was true why didn't it wipe away the indians, chinese, mayans, egyptians etc?. . .Their uninteropted flow of history shows that the noah's flood remains a myth. . .

this is a lie. Chinese recorded history goes back to as far as only 3000 years ago. Why are you lying here? Post your evidence and stop lying.

http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/chinadynasties/a/ChinesePeriods.htm

mazaje: Stop speaking english you do not understand at all. . .The flood was said to have happened about 4300 years ago not 6000 years ago as i earlier stated, the continents were already separated and were already the way they are now. . .What are you saying?. . .The continents separated millions of years ago. . .Not 4000years ago. . .4000 years ago is NOT too distant. . .We have uninterupted history from other civilization that date back to 5000 years ago till date(e.g indians, chinese, mayans etc)

as I have said, this is a lie. Where is your proof that the continents seperated millions of years ago? Is it not just speculation?
Ask yourself if a global castatrophy like the flood that shook and broke open the crusts happened, will it not change the landscape and climate?
You are the one speaking what you do not understand.

mazaje: Stop going to christian apologist sites, there is NO scientific evidence for any global flood any where. . .

nonsense. Have you checked the links? Answer this question with a yes or no. And most of what I say is what I think myself, I'm not dogmatic in believing speculations like you.

Ranchhoddas: @josh,i am going to pretend i did not see ur disgraceful and ignorant response to my post...but i want to ask,what does the ''uninterrupted history'' that mazaje talked about mean to you?

sorry for thinking you were reasonable. There is no uninterrupted recorded history in the sense he speaks of that goes farther than 4500 years ago. Chinese history only goes as far back as about 3000 years. And have you done the maths?

[quote author=phuck_NL]You asked me to shut up but anyway lets forget that.
You say you have given evidence. I think you need to define what you mean by evidence. Somebody's story? How does that equate to evidence?[/quote]which one is somebody's story? You click the links? Did you see my reply to mazaje?
There are fossils of both marine and terrestrial organisms buried alive, fossils of marine organisms in extremely high altitudes. There are long lengths of landscape tevidence of scarring that can only be done by deposition and transportation of sediments by fast-moving waters of a huge scale(the grand canyons for eg)

[quote author=phuck_NL]If Man has always been smart as you claim, he wouldn't have needed to live in CAVES. The human brain developed/evolved over time hence where we are today.[/quote]men have always been smart, the reason we advance is because of exchange of information and research. Go out by yourself in a desolate land then, without much resources and see if you won't find a cave to lie down in the night. Man has not always lived in caves. Man has also built empires and pyramids.

[quote author=phuck_NL]Anyway back to the topic :
How were the different races of man accounted for in the Ark? 6000years is not enough for Man to evolve into the different races we have today. How did the animals survive in the ark? Water? Food? Did we only have a handful of humans and animals at the time? With the primitive resources available at the time, I find it difficult to believe all the relevant animals would have been in there without the Ark sinking.[/quote]what do you mean different races? We're all homo sapiens with slight variations, that's all.
Did the ark not have windows? Did it not have space for storage? Again I say, noah put only pairs of each kind of animals. The links I posted before takes care of each of these issues comprehensively.

[quote author=phuck_NL]A more plausible explanation is still that a flood happened in a certain region of the world and Noah and his people and/or domesticated animals survived it. Humans just happened to twist the story so you shouldn't just believe everything you are told[/quote]nope. You're the one twisting the story now. There is enough evidence of a global flood. You simply choose to close your ears and sing.

[quote author=phuck_NL]Carbon dating shows existence way beyond the 6000years you are claiming . This is a fact.[/quote]carbon dating only goes as far back as tens of thousands of years because of its moderate half-life. And its prone to contamination, and it does not take the very important issue of earth's rapidly decaying magnetic field into play.

Fulaman198: The filter blocked out rap.e in favour of molest.

You are not a woman, you don't have to experience what they have to for 9 months. It's backwards thinking to say/dictate how a woman should behave and act. God gave us all individual thought processes. A woman should not have to carry the baby of a woman she never wanted with a man who forced himself upon her.

If you can find a passage in your holy book that specifically states that a woman who is rap.ed should carry his child and give birth then I'll probably keep quiet and peacefully go away. We live in a world full of evil, and it seems certain groups of people receive the short end of the stick.

I understand your position, but I also do not believe we should extend that stick to the unborn children.
But it is always the womans choice. And a law discouraging her might not stop her.

Fulaman198: I don't generalise nor am I an ethnic bigot like you. So you think it's fine for a man to forcefully de-virginize a woman though rape?

A woman's place is not in the kitchen. It is where she wants it to be. You are selfish because you think only one way is the right way. The Bible was written by men, not one woman. So naturally, it is a very sexist book towards women.

when and where has anyone supported molest here? What we say is that there are many other options, and we should not use r.ape as an excuse for murder.


And we argue from a moral standpoint. Do you know how immoral you sound then? Arguing that we should use the r.ape of a woman to cordone the killing of an innocent child?

peterphd: @Josh @olaadegbu

I'm yet to see an attempt to refute mazaje's view of the improbability of a global flood about 6000 years ago due to the Uninterrupted history of the Chinese,aztecs and other tribes.Did the flood miss the people in those lands or the waters couldn't destroy their records.

nope, the flood got them all. It is recorded to be global, and the flood actually happened about 4500 years ago.

peterphd: Another thing plaguing my mind is how one family (a middle eastern one) was able to re-populate the world to about 7 billion in such a short time and how they managed to give birth to other races such as negroes.

let's tackle this mathematically then, no need to make assumptions. Do the maths, and you'll see that its actually even more evidence of the fact that the global flood happened about 4,500 years ago. You will have about 6.8 billion people if you do the maths with a generation period of 150 h is very conservative. Human population doubles every 50 years about, inspite of natural disasters and deaths)

If you do similar geometric mathematical reconciliation with even an age like 50,000 years, with only a single set of parents and a conservative generation period, we will have an impossible number of human beings (more than 90 zeros at the back of the 1).


So doing the maths well will even prove that the earth is younger than we think, and that a global disaster must have happened 4500 years ago that reduced humanity to a population of 8.

[quote author=phuck_NL]I will not downgrade myself by throwing abuses like you. I am used to it. Rather than explain things, people like you resort to abuses because you have no FACT and expect people to just BELIEVE you.
Everything you stated up there is just YOUR OPINION. NO IOTA of truth or fact in there at all. IF this is what happened, why isn't it clearly stated in the religious books. Why do you have to go through parables and clues that are left for different interpretations? I maintain my stance that they are all LIES because they have been disproven. Why did you ignore the RAINBOW comment? Clear to elaborate on that? For anyone to think an ARK stored ALL those animals is just LUDACRIS. Wake up[/quote]how have I abused you? I simply asked you to show how this event is an impossibility and a lie and you resort to this. This thread is not about rainbows, its us discussing the possibility of a great global flood happening. I have showed you that only specific pairs of each kind of animals, not species, were chosen, and I have shown you evidence and even posted further links for you to read up on the subject, and yet you still claim it is a lie without caring to show us how.

And how can you claim religious books as leverage when you have clearly stated that things written in religious books are a lie?

You seem to be speaking from misplaced grudge. Drop your grudges and examine evidence and dsicuss these issues instead of blindly claiming it is a lie without caring to show us how and when they have been disproved.

[quote author=phuck_NL]It is funny that the same people that brought religion and the religious books to you have moved on and realized that a lot of lies were told. Yet here you are believing fallacies. When are we going to stop the SLAVE MENTALITY.
You throw away everything our African ancestors believed in and call them lies and chose to believe the fallacies brought to you by WESTERN colonizers. Did it ever occur to you that if not for Slavery and Colonization, you would never have found out about this ark story that you hold so dear. Are you telling me now that GOD favours the west? That MAN is not equal?[/quote][quote author=phuck_NL]You expect people to sit down here and believe STORIES/MYTHS/LIES told by ancient people that were anything but half as smart as modern day men.
Most of these things you hold dearly were simply tales. During that time, MAN had a very "timid" "non developed" brain/thinking faculty. They interpreted everything in the best way they could. This is the reason why even in the villages in Africa, you still have people thinking when it is raining and the sun is out, a lion just gave birth - WE KNOW BETTER NOW.
Same reason they thought the earth was flat. Same reason they thought somebody lived in a "fishs" belly for days, same reason they thought a rainbow was a sign that a flood will never occur again, yet we have tsunamis and katrinas everyday. Same reason they thought the heavens (clouds) were connected to the earth and that MAN built structures to reach the clouds. I mean lets get serious. We are now more developed and have smarter brains. To believe all these fallacies would simply mean you still have the brain that existed thousands of years ago which is a damn shame[/quote]what is this? What has this got to do with the op? Stop trying to change topic and examine evidence. How can you claim in one post that we have forsaken our ancestors thinking and claim in another post that the writers of the bible were not as smart as we are today? Are our ancestors smart then?

And the bible claims that there will never be a global flood event, not a local flood event, and it will interest you to know that it was missionaries who brought the gospel, not colonizers.

And theonly reason we have advancement today is because man is able to share knowledge and build on research. Man has always been smart.

But all this is besides the point. Adress the op objectively by asking questions and stop derailing and lashing , or else no one will take you seriously.

Males are co-evolutionary parasites.

Nothing peson no go speculate and formulate. Chai.

Fulaman198: I am applaud at how selfish males can be. They only consider that their way is best without considering how women feel. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

we consider the unborn innocent child.

Ranchhoddas: so you support evolution when it suits you.FYI,speciation takes hundreds of thousands to millions of years,your happened in less than 6,000yrs.Please also explain creation/evolution/speciation of viruses and bacteria and other micro-organisms in relation to Noah's ark when you are responding to this post.

if you'd calm down and think, you'd realize that viruses and bacteria change much faster than more complex organisms, in minutes, they reproduce, in days, they adapt. Go and do some reading.
And when those animals got off that ark, they met a completely different earth awaiting them, a scarred earth with a diffferent climate. The environmental pressures will cause them to adapt even faster, or die. Evolution does not follow a specific time graph. It simply depends on the degree of adaptation.

And evolution in its basic sense is simply change. The adaptation of organisms to their environments, the creation of new varieties of the same kind of organism as it adapts locally to a particular environment. I believe in that kind of change, as it happens around us, but I don't believe in change of kind. Darwinian change of kind is a foolish speculation, a very foolish one.

[quote author=phuck_NL]A lot of people do not dispute GOD. Most just BELIEVE that the PEOPLE who wrote RELIGIOUS books LIED/Spiced up things to get people to believe them. The flood probably happened and the ark was probably built. It was probably localized to a certain region and he probably saved a handful of domesticated animals which the writers than exaggerated to include the entire world.
With regards, to carbon dating, trust me its at least 95% accurate. You only need a 50% accuracy to realize that the dates stated by those who wrote religious books is wrong. They simply wrote what they taught was right at the time without evidence to back it up. Same thing with the RAINBOW story. Most of these things were basically what they taught at the time and they then coined it into religious books. I believe in my GOD but I do not believe the lies in all religious books. I believe if I am good to myself and my fellow man I will make heaven regardless of what anyone thinks. I do not have to pray through anyone and I do not have to go to any institution or read any book to know that being GOOD is the right thing.[/quote]sorry, but simply shut up and show us how the event of a global flood is a lie. Did you open the links and read them? You've made no single argument so far.

And carbon dating is very inaccurate and prone to contamination and does not even consider the earth's rapidly decaying magnetic field as I said.

So show us the lies in this recorded event or be quiet sir. Mere accusations and shouting "it's a lie" will only fool grossly gullible people.

Thank you.

[quote author=phuck_NL]Unless Noah's ark was as big as the entire earth itself, this story is a MYTH. It was written by PEOPLE. Why is it so hard to believe that PEOPLE LIE.
The same people who said the earth was flat, who said there was a ladder than connected HEAVEN to the earth?
Thank God for Astronauts, we know all that was a lie.[/quote]you are ignorant