₦airaland Forum

I am not going to re-answer you because all the answers are in the verses i quoted-just read it up
also it is clear that you guys are ready to hold onto the BLATANT LIE of the qur'an and i am not ready to talk you out of it seeing that your minds are closed to my previous points.peace

1.to reveal the truth about God to jesus's followers[john 16.13 and 14.17]

2.So that people will be able to do the will of God i.e he will direct their ways[mt.10.20 and 12.18]

3.For the followers of jesus to be able to worship God as he is[john 4.24]

4.to stay with the followers of christ forever

This argument should go no further because muhammed did none of these and the comforter was supposed to be with the disciples of christ but muhammed never saw them which means that either he is not the one or the comforter never came.

@image123
do you deliberately refuse to understand what i post or is it just you?
doesnt my post show you that they are three distinct bodies and that Jesus is not God the father??
oh!i now get it is not your fault and this is what is-jn.12.40

@viaro
that verse was from good news
I did not repeat 'jesus never said' because we all know it and you never said he did so i would waste my time repeating myself.
what do you have to say about the father being greater than him a said in jn.14.28 and their inequality of knowledge and power seeing that i have told you why he is to be worshiped and why he had the full nature of God.

if the isrealites did not tattoo the laws of moses on their bodies then why should you tattoo the lords prayer on your body??the law was definitely more important than the lord's prayer because anyone who follows it wholeheartedly will live[gal.312].the lord's prayer has no such value.

It is the holy spirit that is given only to the followers of Jesus.they need the holy spirit for these reasons;

1.to reveal the truth about God to jesus's followers[john 16.13 and 14.17]

2.So that people will be able to do the will of God i.e he will direct their ways[mt.10.20 and 12.18]

3.For the followers of jesus to be able to worship God  as he is[john 4.24]

4.to stay with the followers of christ forever

As we can all see muhammed did none of these

the holy spirit had been existing but had no been with the followers of christ

@alimat 2
if muhammed could stay with us in spirit why can't jesus do the same since they are both sent bu God??
and lest you forget the influence of jesus is just as much if not more than muhammed's so why did he still need to send another??

This is why jesus had to send the holy spirit/helper
It is the holy spirit that is given only to the followers of Jesus.they need the holy spirit for these reasons;

1.to reveal the truth about God to jesus's followers[john 16.13 and 14.17]

2.So that people will be able to do the will of God i.e he will direct their ways[mt.10.20 and 12.18]

3.For the followers of jesus to be able to worship God as he is[john 4.24]

4.to stay with the followers of christ forever

As we can all see muhammed did none of these

ANSWERS THAT THOSE WHO BELIEVE JESUS TO BE GOD NORMALLY GIVE.

1.If Jesus is God why would he refer and relate to God as an entirely different person?i.e 'i am the way to the father',my God my God why hast thou forsaken me?
ANSWER:They are distinct but still one.

2.If you admit that they are distinct but still one then who created who?
QUESTIONED ANSWERS:
1.If one created the other then they are not the same but in the same likeness
2.if they both came into existence at the same time then they are two gods.

3.if you say 'wtf' are you saying they are one person then why do they have unequal power and knowledge?
ANSWER:what of so so so and so verse.

@image123
Seeing that you have shown them to be distinct bodies yet still one God, let me help you out

1.They do not have equal powers
Jesus could not do miracles on his own but by the power of the holy spirit matt.12.28

2.They do not have equal knowledge
Jesus did not know the time of his coming for only the father knew.

These all destroy the claim that they are the same because you cant be more powerful or knowledgeable than yourself for you can only be more than someone else.

What do you have to excuse this?mystery?if not bring it on and lets examine it together.

Dont you guys understand when God is not talking literally?? i think you should show me a situation when God's people really started branding themselves then ill know that i am mistaken.

First of all why would you reduce the value of your skin by writing on it?

you say God was only against that of foreign gods but first things first if the Jews were still worshiping Jehovah,why would they tattoo other god's on their body?

Jehovah told them this to make sure that they don't tattoo even HIS OWN NAME on their bodies since other people were tattooing their own gods.this means that God doesn't like it.

If Jehovah was cool with it then he would have told the isrealites to write his laws on their bodies instead of passing it on by mouth from generation to generation

First of all why would you reduce the value of your skin by writing on it?

you say God was only against that of foreign gods but first things first if the Jews were still worshiping Jehovah,why would they tattoo other god's on their body?

Jehovah told them this to make sure that they don't tattoo even HIS OWN NAME on their bodies since other people were tattooing their own gods.this means that God doesn't like it.

If Jehovah was cool with it then he would have told the isrealites to write his laws on their bodies instead of passing it on by mouth from generation to generation

for what reason is this arg. still going on?? i just showed that God spoke against it. i repeat
leviticus.19.28
you shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead nor TATTOO any marks on you:i am the lord

Are you guys deliberately posting irrationally or what
If the comforter was going to die and continue abiding even when he dies then Jesus would have continued abiding as such and there will be no need for the comforter.think rationally please!

The comforter was only coming because when jesus goes to heaven,his followers will be alone.The comforter was never going to leave them as jesus was going to leave.
Muhammed has died and can not be with us if jesus cannot be with us.That is why the comforter is a different person.

Think with your brains!

@alimat 2
c'mon dont be ridiculous;they will die in the due course of time.they would not live forever and that is what the helper will do.The helper will stay with us forever and those to come after us.and you if you are interested

leviticus.19.28
you shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead nor TATTOO any marks on you:i am the lord

john.14.16
i will ask the father and he will give you another helper who will STAY WITH YOU FOREVER.Muhammad is dead so he is not the helper.

matt.28.19
Go therefore and make disciples OF ALL THE NATIONS,baptizing them in the name of the father,the son and the holy spirit.
This makes Jesus for all people including YOU!

@toba
phil.2.6
He always had the nature of God but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.[good news]
are you sure u finished the verse??
In matt.12.28 Jesus was able to do miracles BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.see,he didn't have his own thus making him not to be God
Jesus can do anything as the father because john3.35-the father loves the son and puts everything in his power.
All knowledge was in Jesus and he didn't know the time of his coming?? think twice

It is very funny to see that jesus always referred to himself as the son of God and said the father was greater than him.jn.14.28 and yet others want him to be God and equal with his father.very funny.

@viaro
i admire the way you twisted the whole son issue and want to see how you can do that to the father. i.e jesus referred to God as his father and God and God reffered to him as his beloved son and never as his God.
just asking-i am an anglican, are u a catholic??

Acts 20.28
So keep watch over yourselves and over all the flock which the holy spirit has placed in your care.be shephereds of the church of God which he made with the sacrificial death of his son.

phil.2.6
He always had the nature of God but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.

I realised that if we are going to get anywhere we should stick with 'divine sayings' such as those said by jesus, God or heavenly revealation.cos we cant fully trust men.[pls argue this on another thread]

Jesus was a Jew. he practiced Judaism and worshiped in the temple so wats up wit the lies that he was a muslim.

I finalize by quoting phil.2.6
He always had the nature of God but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.
and john 14.28- i am going to the father for he is greater than i

I now leave you all to your own thoughts.

My questions are numbered,easy to see and difficult to avoid,
1.   Using Jn 14:28
                 …I am going to the father; for he is greater than I.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he say he is going to the father who is greater than him? no  should be greater than him
2.   Using Jn 14:1
                 …believe in God and believe also in me.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would you need to believe in them separately
3.   Using Mk 10:18
                 Why do you call me good? Jesus asked him. “No one is good except God alone.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why is he not goodI don’t think it is possible for some parts of God to be good and others are not.Here jesus draws a thin line btw himself and GOD.
4.   Using Rev 5:7
                 The lamb [Jesus] went and took the scroll from the one who sits on the throne [God].
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he take the scroll from himself?Huh I cant take a scroll from myself.
5.   Using Rev 5;13
           …To him who sits on the throne and to the lamb, be praise and honor, glory and might forever and ever.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would praises be accorded to him and God separately??
If there was a TRINITY why would praises not be accorded to the holy spirit
6.   Using Rev 22:1-2
                 , sparkling like crystal and coming from the throne of God and of the lamb.
If there was a TRINITY why is there no throne for the Holy Spirit
7.   Using Jn 14:31 and Jn 16:13
                 , That I love the father; that is why I do everything he commands me.
                  …He will not speak on his own authority but on what he HEARS.
If Jesus and the Holy Spirit were of one being with God why don’t they speak on their own authority
If the Holy Spirit were of one being with God why does he speak on what he hears and not of what he knows
8.If jesus were God why did he not know the time of the end times??
9.If jesus is God why couldn't he perform miracles on his own??matt 12.28 he needed the holy spirit
10.the whole book of rev makes it clear that there is jesus the son and God the father who are so separate that they have different thrones and one can take a scroll from the other so what is your stress?
11.who was jesus always praying to??

i ll be back wen u address every one of my points to start the argument.until then.

@image123
if you want to find faults in my statements at least find real ones
What sense does baby not child make?i said baby BY and not CHILD OF.[meaning it was by the power of the holyspirit] if you dont understand what i post you can ask.

1tim3.16 says and he was taken up to heaven and mind you my version never said God so what is your stress??Wasn't it jesus who was taken up to heaven

you are arguing that jesus and the holy spirit are not messengers yet they did not come on their own authority but were sent by God.Jn 14:31 and Jn 16:13.who do you think a messenger is??

God created the world what is your own opinion

I think y'all have had your full of asking questions so it's time for me to ask.

@viaro
It seems like you have a mission to discredit me seeing the way you expanded "my denial" i was not alone to think of that wrongly for la_vivi also saw it as such because most bibles don't have it as such.nice proving urself though and i accept it with my reply above.

I am not here to make only points but to try to make others change theirs so lying against the bible cannot do me any good.

@viaro
You did not get me and i am sorry for not stating it well
i meant that what you chipped in-'GOD' was not there but as you know the versions that put "God over all" were trying to make more sense in the statement cos over all can be overlooked.they wanted readers to understand that jesus has power over all.hence,the use of 'God'.

@viaro
rom.9.5-, christ came,who is over all, not GOD over all
once again christ is over all because john 3.35-the father loves the son and puts everything in his POWER! hence he is over everything/all.

keep your points coming and by God's grace we all will get somewhere.

@viaro
Please now!, how many times do you want me to say this -if you know of a point i evaded show me and i will answer what's up with the repetition?

I have answered every point that needs my attention and the page we are on gives all proof so whats up now??
pls point out any i did not see. is that too much to ask?? We want to reach a conclusion so u should be pleased to show me what i did not reply.

I have answered why Christ is worshiped using john 3.35 so what is your problem with it?i repeat
Jesus is to be worshiped because according to john.3.35 the father loves the son and puts everything in his power.
God is to be worshiped because everything in under his power so all those under him must worship him but seeing that the father has given Jesus equal rights then all must worship him too for all are under him too

@la_vivi
I am not quitting and as i said earlier My wish is that we all reach a final conclusion on this matter so i wait to answer all problems before going back to laying my points cos my points were being evaded by covering them with other points.

@viaro
matt23.37, how many times have i WANTED to put my arms around all your people as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings BUT YOU WOULD NOT LET ME,

saying that i have not addresses issues is so wrong cos if i ve not what have i been doing since-the present post here is as a result of one of my replies and u r still sayin t, ,now list any point i did not address instead of repeating it over and over again.

and while i have never replied with any attacking tone i would advice you do the same for i don't want us to turn this thread into something else.peace and dont reply this.

My wish is that we all reach a final conclusion on this matter so i wait to answer all problems before going back to laying my points.

@image123
1.in 1tim.3.16 due to the last line 'was taken up to heaven' it was talking of Jesus who appeared in human form and was shown right by the holyspirit for he was filled with the holy spirit [matt.12.28]
2.matt.1.18-20 talked of baby BY the power of the holy spirit and not child per se .the holy spirit is the messenger/force of God.
3.in acts.5.3-4 the interchange between God and the holy spirit is done because the holy spirit is just a messenger and just as luke 10.16 says that whoever rejects jesus rejects him that SENT him[because he has no message of his own]in the same vein whoever lies to the holy spirit lies to him that sent him who is God[because he has no message or work of his own]

.e.g if u sent ur messenger to get some info in ur place and d person gives a false info to ur messenger,he lied to u cos ur messenger will relay the lie to u for the info is not his but urs.

4.in heb 10.15,16 the holy spirit is used because God seldom executes any project by himself but sends the Holy spirit so the holy spirit clearly made the covenant with orders from God and not on his own authority.

Finally when thinking of the trinity what is your take on the fact that there are 7 spirits of GOD making them more than just 3,but dont sweat it there is no trinity thereby saving you the headache.

When civilization started in north africa, there was no islam

@thehomer
They wont go to hell using this;
JOHN15.22-They would not have been guilty of sin if i had not come and spoken to them.
so seeing that our fore fathers never heard the gospel!

viaro:
To assure you, Jesus made statements in the NT that indicate that He was the God that Israel was called to follow, serve and worship. An example ~

[list]Matthew 23:37
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not![/list]

Compare that with ~

[list]Deut. 32:11-12
As an eagle stirreth up her nest, fluttereth over her young, spreadeth abroad her wings, taketh them, beareth them on her wings: So the LORD alone did lead him, and there was no strange god with him.[/list]

In your bid to create a point from thin air you just tried mixing water and oil as one liquid.
Here Jesus TRIED BUT WAS NOT ALLOWED but God did gather and protect them.
now you have a point against yourself!