₦airaland Forum

Even the bible speaks against this lady and as many others like her.
1.cor.7.5 says 'do not deny yourselves to each other except you first agree to do so,

Jesus is to be worshipped because according to john.3.35 the father loves the son and puts everything in his power.
God is to be worshipped because everything in under his power so all those under him must worship him but seeing that the father has given Jesus equal rights then all must worship him too for all are under him too.

@viaro
What's your complaint? you keep complaining that i have not addressed points and yet you have not addressed mine[and u just swept alimat's about the hour under the carpet]we wont get anywhere like this i have told you to lay your points as simply as possible and i will answer you[as i just did above] i also gave you a format to narrow our points so we get somewhere but it seems like you are just interested in going round in circles. i dont swing that way

My point remains in revelation;address it and lets move on or drop yours for me to answer.We should be able to reach a verdict together[everyone who posts on this thread]

@image123 about my seven spirits of God[holy spirit], i ll only roll that in if need be. i accept my error in calling jesus and the holy spirit 2 persons.

It seems like you would like your husband to start sleeping outside.
well, you know the repercussions,if you can take it continue but if not back down or dont come complaining-"My husband of 2 yrs is cheating on me what should i do?"

@Image123
I believe in God the father,Jesus the son,and the holy spirit[rev.4.5 and 5.6 they are 7 spirits of God].
they are three different persons 2 of whom were created by God.

The holy spirit is the active force of God or the direct messenger executing every project for him[mt 1:20 and mt 4; 1]The holy spirit is the name given to any of the 7 spirits of God.
Jesus is the son and on earth he had no power of his own in matt12.28. and was thus filled by the holy spirit through which he PERFORMED miracles

By the book of revelation we know that the holy spirit is neither worshiped nor enthroned but the father and son are worshiped and enthroned SEPARATELY.[see earlier post for bib backup]

It is also clear that the holy spirit neither spoke on his authority nor on what HE KNEW.he spoke on what he HAD HEARD from God-if he was God then who did he hear from?
neither did Jesus who did not come on his own authority

If we want to reach a finale point then we should follow this format.
1.We cannot fully trust the words of men[pls argue this on a new thread]because there could be errors in what they understood or believed so lets narrow our quotes down to those said by God,Jesus or any other heavenly being or those in which the author agrees that the words came from them.
2.The bulkiness and disarray of post make it difficult and uninteresting to reply so make your posts as short and straight to the point as possible.

Let the point listing begin,

JOHN15.22-They would not have been guilty of sin if i had not come and spoken to them,
Hence you know whats up,

toba:
Karo fine u started d thread but u dnt want to share others ideas

explain yourself pls. i dont get you!

The bulkiness and disarray of post make it difficult  and uninteresting to reply[i answered lady's cos though bulky,were in order] cos wen they are too many in one,answering them will not really make much impact which is why i make my questions and post as short and straight to the point as possible and although they are still unreplied, i have answered every straight to the point question and post.

If you make your post as such in the format i just asked for then you ll get answers and we put a full stop to this thread.

i go again on rev.5.7.lay down yours,

Well this answers it all you are not ready to answer the unanswerable so we should move on but first things first i have no desire to drag this argument into a stale mate so i think we should narrow our points.

We cannot fully trust the words of men[pls argue this on a new thread]because there could be errors in what they understood or believed so lets narrow our quotes down to those said by God,Jesus or any other heavenly being or those in which the author agrees that the words came from them.

give your points and i will answer[if they r in the format] for i have already given mine by using rev.5.7

in this way we could drop all directions of argument and show ourselves the truth.i sign up on this

If you are a playa you can use dem all and dont spend a dime on them but if not you should ignore them cos u already know all they want is your money.

@Ebonyeyes
I am afraid you live a life of disappointment here.lol. u'd bettr quit nairaland lol [no insult intended]

When i saw a thread of 19 pages bearing the title 1 or 2,i was curious but now I AM DISAPPOINTED

Well this answers it all you are not ready to answer the unanswerable so we should move on but first things first i have no desire to drag this argument into a stale mate so i think we should narrow our points.

We cannot fully trust the words of men[pls argue this on a new thread]because there could be errors in what they understood or believed so lets narrow our quotes down to those said by God,Jesus or any other heavenly being or those in which the author agrees that the words came from them.

give your points and i will answer[if they r in the format] for i have already given mine by using rev.5.7

I think you should send her packing without batting an eye lid because she either doesn't love you[for which u shld find someone who does] or you don't satisfy her enough[when she finds someone who does she would ALWAYS cheat on you]

@viaro and all others for Jesus is God
Using Rev 5:7
The lamb [Jesus] went and took the scroll from the one who sits on the throne [God].
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he take the scroll from himself?Huh I cant take a scroll from myself

Lets all answer this post rationally;what do u think is happening here.

The bible is full of many other points showing that jesus is not God but if you can explain this away i will think deeply about whatever answer you give before considering accepting that jesus is God or continuing the argument.

We are going to get this all mixed up so i think we should all air our opinions on who Christ is from time immemorial till date.i'll go first
Jesus Christ is the son of God and was begotten before the world was made and he lived in glory with his father and according to phil 2.6 he did not even TRY to become equal with God talk less of being equal with him and more less of being God.

that is all i say for now.I'll increase my points only if need be.

This thread is bound to end up like the previous threads of its kind so i intervene by quoting
Using Rev 5:7
The lamb [Jesus] went and took the scroll from the one who sits on the throne [God].
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he take the scroll from himself?Huh I cant take a scroll from myself

Lets all answer this post rationally;what do u think is happening here.

Every guy wants to marry a girl that is not loose/promiscuous and there is that feeling that if she could loose it to someone she ended up not marrying then she could do it again when they are married.
If the guy is not a virgin then he believes that all the girls he has already slept with are loose,used and cheap and does not want to marry any of their kind.

A girl will never forget her first lover,some men may not be able to take the fact that their wife constantly remembers another man's sexual encounter while others can.

I do no deny the fact that Christianity has pagan roots as we all know that it was endorsed my emperor Constantine through and by which pagan aspects where added to the religion but none of these pagan roots changes the main stands of Christianity so any christian can dump any doctrine seen as pagan without dropping the religion or being persecuted.

The baptism in the name of the father,son and the holy spirit according to matt 28.19 does not make the trinity because first things first there is not one spirit of God[rev.4.5 and 5.6].
Jesus ordered this baptism to make known to the new converts the most useful aspects of their faith.

1.They had to worship the FATHER.
2.They had to believe in the SON so that his blood would wash away their sins and through his name their prayers will be answered by God.
3.They had to receive the holy spirit to direct their path since they were no longer under the law.[gal.5.4-5]They also needed the holy spirit to be able to worship God properly which was the most important john.4.24

Hence the baptism in the name of the father,son and holy spirit

nice work ijele.

Alright lets get things straight;to anyone who thinks someone hammered all these points into my head i would let you know that not a word of anything that i have written all through was given to me by any human being.
I have seen all these things in my cause of reading the bible over time and decided that it was high time I made my points known to all.

May God open every eye, !

sorry if i made a gross error by calling them questions
i have replied as i see fit for now so if you have any more problems just let me know

THE SUMMARY OF ALL LADY'S QUESTIONS
1.Jesus has the power of the father because according to john 3.35 the father loves the son and puts EVERYTHING under his power.
2.Jesus could be substituted with God or the holy spirit because while on earth before his death he had neither a way of life or power to do anything on his own for he was filled by the holy spirit mt 12.28 who gave him the power and directed his path and neither did he have a personal message for he was sent by God.[the only thing christ did on his own was to die for us]
3.Jesus never claimed to be God. i ll not repeat my explanation of john 10.30 read my first post.
4.According to matt 12.28 jesus perfomed miracles because he was filled with the holy spirit
5.Christ can be worshipped because according to john 3.35 every thing God has power over he equally does.
6.The holy spirit is not one person but 7 spirits by rev 4.5 and 5.6 they are the messengers of God who execute every project for him in other words the active force of GOD

those questions were long and stress ful so u can now channel your questions one by one.nice work though.

Lest i forget the jews wanted to crucify jesus for two main reasons
1.He said he was the son of God and in all their life God never revealed to the prophets that he had a son.mt26.63-65,john 19.7
2.The people were fully behind jesus if he wanted to be king john 6.15 and they were under the roman rule where the only king is the emperor. they were afraid that the emperor may destroy them if he heard that they had a king or were plannning for one.john 1912

@lady
it's okay now let me answer what you ve already written

I dont see any problem in first fruit or tithe and even continuous taxation in form of offering my only case is that if you are not giving from your heart ,STOP cos you are wasting your time.
God will not bless you when you give grudgingly no matter how much.he loves a cheerful giver.

As a christian if you are afraid that your pastor is using your money to enrich himself go to the nearest charity home and donate your offerings for Christ was always for giving to the needy
Also if you see a pastor who needs your material help to propagate the word of God and not to enrich himself you can pay your offerings there.

QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
@toba
1.Karo. Read what paul said in colossians1:19 FOR GOD WAS PLEASED TO HAVE ALL HIS FULNESS DWELL IN HIM. here paul is simply telling us to all d personalities dat makes God to be God was given to Jesus becos God wants a perfect person to redeem man.
Jesus had the full nature of God because he was possesed by the Holy spirit who is the acting hand or force of God not because he was God himself.mt 12:28

2.One thing that will help us is in Romans 20 vs 28b which says God purchased us with his blood. i.e the blood of jesus is the same as that of God.
My bible does not contain rom 20 vs 28 for romans stops inchaptr 16.so i ll take this as an error.

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. -- Isaiah 48:16
The holy spirit is the acting force of God or God's direct messenger.it is the name given to any of the seven spirits of God[rev.4:5] so here Isaiah was sent by God's messenger the holy spirit but he recognizes that the directive is from GOD.

@viaro
please read through my post and you will see my defense of john 10:30 how many times do you want me to say this

What i mean by great is not the significance of the point in life but in the argument

Trinity is the union of God the father,the son and the holy spirit as ONE and that is what my whole point is against so i dont know why you are bringing tritheism into this.I didn't say they were gods,ONLY God is.

@toba
If you read my post on the works of them all you will see that it is by the holy spirit that any body can do without sin and jesus was filled with the holy spirit.

@viaro
The TRINITY according to the oxford dictionary is the union of God the father,the son and the holy spirit as ONE and tritheism does not exist so what are you trying to pull??

My great point is against the TRINITY as you see it defined there,

YOU GUYS DEFINITELY DIDN'T READ THROUGH MY POST OR YOU WOULD SEE MY DEFENSE OF JOHN 10:30.you can go back up and read it.

God the father, Jesus the son and the Holy Spirit all exist separately and theses are their works.
1. The father is our maker and the maker of Jesus and the Holy Spirit so we all worship him and obey all his laws
2. Jesus is the reason by which we all are saved He breaches the gap between God and man by washing away our sins. By his name anything we ask of the father is granted to us.
3. The Holy spirit according to mt 1:20 and mt 4; 1 is the handwork of God i.e. it is by the Holy Spirit that God acts. By mt 12:28 it is by him anyone can perform miracles [including Jesus].By mt 10:20 and mt 12:18 he is the one who makes people do the will of God. By jn 4:24 it is only through him that we all can worship God as he is.
According to jn 16:13 and jn 14:17 it is the Holy Spirit that reveals the truth about God.
THESE ALL MEAN THAT IT IS BY THE HOLY SPIRIT BY WHICH GOD ACTS. This is why the disciples needed the Holy Spirit.

Is this deliberate or can't you all get my point??
i didn't say there is no holy spirit and matter of fact according to rev.4:5 and 5:6 God has 7 spirits.
Trinity is the belief that God is 3 in one and that is what i am disproving.

According to matt 28:19 jesus talked about father,son and holy spirit. All i am saying is that they are not all one person.

AND i dont read jehovah witness books lol. i have a bible!

@viaro
If you cant answer my questions there is no need to answer with harsh comments and seeing that you know it all you could enlighten me and in case you don't know, i am a christian.

Also,if you don't like my trinity questions you can answer the others.

First of all Jesus never stated that he was God and never mentioned that there was a trinity [the trinity was never mentioned in the bible] for if these were propounded by Jesus it would have been evident in the new testament-the letters of the apostles and the life of Jesus.

1. Using Jn 14:28
                 …I am going to the father; for he is greater than I.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he say he is going to the father who is greater than him?
2. Using Jn 14:1
                 …believe in God and believe also in me.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would you need to believe in them separately
3. Using Mk 10:18
                 Why do you call me good? Jesus asked him. “No one is good except God alone.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why is he not goodI don’t think it is possible for some parts of God to be good and others are not.
4. Using Rev 5:7
                 The lamb [Jesus] went and took the scroll from the one who sits on the throne [God].
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he take the scroll from himself? I cant take a scroll from myself.
5. Using Rev 5;13
           …To him who sits on the throne and to the lamb, be praise and honor, glory and might forever and ever.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would praises be accorded to him and God separately??
If there was a TRINITY why would praises not be accorded to the holy spirit
6. Using Rev 22:1-2
                 , sparkling like crystal and coming from the throne of God and of the lamb.
If there was a TRINITY why is there no throne for the Holy Spirit
7. Using Jn 14:31 and Jn 16:13
                 , That I love the father; that is why I do everything he commands me.
                  …He will not speak on his own authority but on what he HEARS.
If Jesus and the Holy Spirit were of one being with God why don’t they speak on their own authority
If the Holy Spirit were of one being with God why does he speak on what he hears and not of what he knows
8.     Using Mk 16:19
                    After the lord had talked with them ,He  was taken up to heaven and sat at the right hand of God.
If Jesus is OF ONE BEING WITH GOD why would he be seated at the right side of Godi cant sit at my right side and neither can any part of me,

                                       DEFENDING JOHN 10:30
While trying to prove that Jesus is God everyone falls onto the above verse so I decided to explain what the verse “the father and I are one.”
What Jesus meant by the above verse is that he and the father are one because they both followed the same ways and followed the same path.
Using Jn 14:20
…you will know that I am in my father and that you are in me just as I am in you.
Here you understand that Jesus is in the father ONLY because he does the father’s will and his disciples are in him because they do his will and he is in them because they all follow the same path which makes them one with God too because they all follow the same path. a=b and b=c and a=c

in conclusion, Jesus is the son of God and the father, the son,and the holy spirit all exist separately.

Acts.3.13
The God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob the God of our ancestors has given us divine glory to HIS SERVANT JESUS CHRIST.
Acts.3.26
And so God chose HIS SERVANT and sent him first to you to bless you by Making everyone of you turn from his wicked ways.
Acts.4.27
and the people of Israel against Jesus YOUR HOLY SERVANT WHO YOU MADE MESSIAH.

THE SERVANT AND THE MASTER Can never BE THE SAME PERSON AND THE ONE WHO WAS MADE Cannot BE THE One WHO MADE.

1.Cor.8.6
There is ONLY one GOD, THE FATHER, who is the CREATOR OF ALL THINGS and for whom we live and there is only one LORD, JESUS CHRIST through whom all things were created and through whom we live.

The normal saying [though not in the bible] is that
Father [Yahweh] +Son [Jesus] +holy spirit=GOD [trinity]
But this verse as quoted from the BIBLE tells us that, Father [Yahweh] =GOD [1]
And Son [Jesus] =LORD [1]

As this verse shows us, we live for the father [Yahweh] our God because he is our creator and not his son.

[For those confused about how the father made all things through the son I will explain like this; If you send your driver to give some goods to your mother, can it be said that it was your driver that generously gave to your mother??]

Lastly
Jn.3.35
The father loves the son and puts everything under his power.

Jesus cannot be God because he was “empowered” by someone which means that if Jesus is to be God there will always be a higher God-the one who empowered him.

[p.s. you cannot empower yourself but someone else.]