₦airaland Forum

benedictac:
Do you thing prosperity is about having kobo kobo in your account?

Wake up boy

The teachings of christ is about love and Salvation it as nothing to do with prosperity like your deluded pastors want you their gullibe sheeple to believe. I don't worship christ because i want money like you lazy thieves in prosperity preaching churches, i worship him because i have genuine love for him, i appreciate his love for me and i also value his message to humanity which most of you blockheads don't even know talkless of understand.

realpastor:
if you stop giving tithe,how do you expect us to fund the church?

So is it right for the church of God to resort to lies, deceit and manipulation of scriptures just becos you want to fund the church which God didn't ask you to set up in the first instance. If you are really a real pastor go and read the first and second books of timothy to see how Paul instructed a church should be run. Also read the book of titus. The book of acts also as a lot to say about how the early church was organized.

This what jesus as to say about calling a pastor "daddy"

Matthew 23:6-10:
6 And they love to sit at the head table at banquets and in the seats of honor in the synagogues. 7 They love to receive respectful greetings as they walk in the marketplaces, and to be called ‘Rabbi.’
8 “Don’t let anyone call you ‘Rabbi,’ for you have only one teacher, and all of you are equal as brothers and sisters. 9 And don’t address anyone here on earth as ‘Father,’[daddy] for only God in heaven is your spiritual Father. 10 And don’t let anyone call you ‘Teacher,’ for you have only one teacher, the Messiah.

Redeemed members and other pastor idolators please note.

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

    8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
      when your teachers have twisted it[scriptures] by writing lies? 
    9 These wise teachers will fall
      into the trap of their own foolishness,
   for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
      Are they so wise after all?
   10 I will give their wives to others
      and their farms to strangers.
   From the least to the greatest,
      their lives are ruled by greed.
   Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
      They are all frauds. 

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
9 These wise teachers will fall
into the trap of their own foolishness,
for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
Are they so wise after all?
10 I will give their wives to others
and their farms to strangers.
From the least to the greatest,
their lives are ruled by greed.
Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
They are all frauds.

@Noetic
Nices responses, spot on. But the last response the sixth one is not about rapture or Jesus coming back it was just a parable Jesus made when preaching asermon.

benedictac:
@Kunle,

God has shamed you. You and all your supporters, remain in abject poverty while others move forward.

If e pain you, go and do your worst.

On the contrary i have been vindicated these men just deceive us that they need the money for God's work but at the end of the day, they are after their own selfish desires. And if you must know poverty is far from me i happen to be a very well to do young man  

Jeremiah 8:8-10:

   8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise because we have the word of the Lord,”
     when your teachers have twisted it by writing lies?
   9 These wise teachers will fall
     into the trap of their own foolishness,  
  for they have rejected the word of the Lord.
     Are they so wise after all?
  10 I will give their wives to others
     and their farms to strangers.
  From the least to the greatest,
     their lives are ruled by greed.
  Yes, even my prophets and priests are like that.
     They are all frauds.  

Whilst scientist use too many assumptions one of which may make their submissions fundermentally faulty, the estimated age of the earth deduced from bible occurences too can not possibly be right as there is ample evidence that the earth is much older than 6,000 years. My submission is no one really knows and i don't think we need to bother our selves about it.

The topic as already been discussed exhaustively here https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-245439.0.html

Another often overlooked hint in the bible that indicates man's compatibility with heavenly beings can be found in Genesis 6:1-4 which says:


1 Then the people began to multiply on the earth, and daughters were born to them. 2 The sons of God saw the beautiful women and took any they wanted as their wives. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time, for they are only mortal flesh. In the future, their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years.”

4 In those days, and for some time after, giant Nephilites lived on the earth, for whenever the sons of God had intercourse with women, they gave birth to children who became the heroes and famous warriors of ancient times.

Let us examine the evidence, even though most versions use the term "sons of God" to describe the heavenly beings that slept with the earth's women some other versions have used the term "angels" and "supernatural beings". What remains a fact is that they were from above i.e heaven or where God resides. It also tells us one thing that they are physical beings and NOT strictly spiritual as we have always been made to believe by the church. But that apart a crucial evidence is that they were able to sleep with women and reproduce. this is very revealing as anybody who did a little bit of biology would know that reproduction is NOT possible between different species since their DNA would not be compatible. This in otherwards mean that humans and these sons of God were of the same species with identical DNA. This i think is another scritural evidence about the reality of man and his likeness to God or other heavenly beings

@darrytoz
You are misrepresenting me, i never said i don't like baptist what i said is this:
All said and done i would admit i [b]don't really like the idea of different church denominations [/b]but i must choose i would rather place my bet on being a baptist

Recognise:
[size=12pt] @KunleOshob (m)



1) What did Man have in beginning?
2) What did Man lose before and/or without even stepping out of Eden?
2) What is the nitty-gritty, the bottom line, the core message, (i.e. crux) of Jesus Ministry whilst on Earth?
3) What was He proclaiming and explaining during his Ministry?

So in your own understanding, how would you answer the above stated questions? cos we have various answers being peddled around today by the church.

Another thing i like about the baptist church is that they strike a balance between the monotonous and rigidly structured orthodox churches and loosely structured and flamboyant pentecostal churches. The baptist church is well organized not monotonous and there is accountability(pastors can't spend the church's money as they please). their services can be quite interesting(depending on the preacher). It definitely is not a one man church and the pastors and not unduely deified like you have in the pentecostal movement. They are also well trained ( 5 to 10 years in the seminary on a full time basis) unlike the penterascals that attend a six months part time course in make shift bible schools. some are not even trained at all they just have sweet mouth. Unknown to most people the baptist church is actually one of the largest churches in Nigeria with over 8,000 branches nationwide in well built structures (not make shift shelters or rented hotels/ halls) that is very popular amongst a certain group of churches). But then i think the baptist church needs to do more as it is loosing the younger generation members to pentecostal churches who add an entertainment aspect to their services as a marketing strategy. All said and done i would admit i don't really like the idea of different church denominations but i must choose i would rather place my bet on being a baptist.

@image123
After all your rantings you are still yet to establish that tithing as any sound scriptural basis in christianity. And need i remind you, tithing was specifically abolished in Hebrews 7: 11-20. These facts you have read but you keep on deluding youtself and leading others out of the grace of christ(galatians 5:4)

hubreality:
If you're reading this thread now. You'll agree with me that I cannot be you and you cannot be me right? And salvation is personal. Walk by faith yourself and visit any of the outreach programmes of pastor Chris. For the fact that sirjohn lost out does not mean that these time tested and life changing events are unreal. He is not the only person in this whole earth. Testimonies abound from over 20 countries.
Distractor mind your business.

Staged managed and orchestrated testimonies by a largely ignorant and decieved flock.

@segzyjoe
Do you have any idea what a church is meant to be

tenry:
kunle, remember that farming is not popular among christians these days and if we have to base it on farm produce alone, i guess only the farmers are qualified to pay tithe. I still opine that tithe issue concerns every christians and not the issue of old or new testament!Shalom.

I would not like to de-rail this thread but i would still address your concerns. Tithing was directedat the israelites at that time for a specific pupose which doesn't suffice today and as nothing to do with christianity. After the children of Israel left egypt God gave then several laws to guide their social and religious lives, he also directed that the children of the tribe of levites should not given any land as they are to work in the temple. They were not allowed to work or own property, tithes was a compensation to the levites for not being allowed to work(Numbers 18 :23-24) and it was strictly a convenant between God and thhe Levites, this convenat is not transferable. (Hebrews 7:13) That is apart from the fact that tithes is under the mosaic laws which are clearly not binding on christians (galatians 5:4) Please read the link i posted for more facts on tithes then you may begin to see things in a new perspective. If you read the bible well you would discover that the arguments for tithes are very weak, not biblically sound and not directed at christians;

Numbers 18:23-24:
23 Only the Levites may serve at the Tabernacle, and they will be held responsible for any offenses against it. This is a permanent law for you, to be observed from generation to generation. The Levites will receive no allotment of land among the Israelites, 24 because I have given them the Israelites’ tithes, which have been presented as sacred offerings to the Lord. This will be the Levites’ share. That is why I said they would receive no allotment of land among the Israelites.”


The highlighted reason that justified biblical tithes is not in operation today.

Galatians 5:4:
4You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace.

(tithing is part of the law)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hebrews 7:11-13:
11 Now if perfection had been attainable through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need would there have been for another priest to arise after the order of Melchizedek, rather than one named after the order of Aaron? 12[b]For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well. 13For the one of whom these things are spoken belonged to another tribe, from which no one has ever served at the altar.
[/b]
Verse 13 emphasizes that jesus is not of the tribe of priests(levites) hence levitical rights (tithes) are not applicable to his priesthood. for better understanding i suggest you read the whole of Hebrews 7, it clearly condenms the practice of tithing and describes it as a "weak and useless law" in verse 18

Tha article was plagiarized from sunday's edition of Thisday and was written by simon kolawole the OP should have stated this instead of giving the impression that the article is origianlly his. Here is the link to the original article : http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=138801

@No2atheism
Actually church tax as it origins in the bible but it was a very small amount and different to tithes that the bible describes, here is what Jesus as to say about it:

Matthew 17:24-27:

Payment of the Temple Tax
24 On their arrival in Capernaum, the collectors of the Temple tax came to Peter and asked him, “Doesn’t your teacher pay the Temple tax?”

25 “Yes, he does,” Peter replied. Then he went into the house.

But before he had a chance to speak, Jesus asked him, “What do you think, Peter? Do kings tax their own people or the people they have conquered?”

26 “They tax the people they have conquered,” Peter replied.

“Well, then,” Jesus said, “the citizens are free! 27 However, we don’t want to offend them, so go down to the lake and throw in a line. Open the mouth of the first fish you catch, and you will find a large silver coin. Take it and pay the tax for both of us.”

I also agree with your understanding of the mordern concept of church, the church as completely missed it and the blind sheeple are in denial. As you said it is all in fufilment of scripture. But then i wonder, why is christ allowing his name to be used to lead people astray.

@recognise
Your post is quite insightful, but it is quite obvious that man's true destiny and purpose is not very clear although there are several hints in the bible we still are not very certain and the church leadership has done more to confuse us than educate us cause they simply don't know and every pastor is pursuing his own agenda. I am also aware that the bible we use today, passed down to us by the vatican is just what they decided to cannonize as "ordained scripture" there is evidence that other ordained scripture were deliberately left out by the vatican at that time beause they were considered books of higher spiritual value and this books can still be found in their archives today even though catholic faithfuls deny this. I believe God reavealed answers to our forbearers and the answer is still with us today albeit adulterated and concealed from us by a "priviledged" few. This is one of the reasons i don't subject my self to church doctines anymore. Churches tell you what they want you to believe and not necessarily the gospel truth.

@darrytoz
Whilst this topic is not a disccussion on tithes and i would not like to derail the topic i can tell you that i have done a lot of extensive research on tithes and know for a fact that it is NOT meant for christians. You can check out this thread i wrote on tithes to help your research: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html

@tenry
It is a misnomer to label biblical tithes as ten percent of income, the bible describes it as ten per cent of the produce of the land, it had nothing to do with the other revenues and incomes people were making then. Besides it was never taught or directed to christians in the new testament. It was a jewish religious law which is totally different from christianity hence the apostles never preached it to the early church.

@Akolawole
i think you still still do more studies on tithes before you come to a conclusion.

Poser: is the type of tithes being practised today described in any were in the bible or is it an adaptation?

@Chukwudi44
Thanx for that response i have decided to stop responding to the silly boy course i am not sure he is mentally stable.

Omolulu:
well the r c c g is clearly one of the biggest churches in Nigeria and they are very capable of owning a jet, but a religious leader is way different from a business leader, that the wealth is there doesnt mean it must be spent the way moguls spend theirs, nevertheless people should address the issue with care as the man in question is a man of God who is accountable to God alone for his actions and not to Rccg members or any man in general,

It is statements like i highlighted above that makes these gods of men feel they are next to God, in reality they should be accountable to members of their church as the money belongs to the church in the first instance. That is why in the well and better organized orthodox churches that are by far richer than these pentecostal jamborees you would never see a preacher indulging in such opulence and flamboyance, there are checks and balances and they are accountable to the church.

Well Huxley knows the bible better than most people that call themselves christians( even though he doesn't understand it)

Pastor AIO:
The people that bought it for him, Are they going to help him maintain it too?

Please, who are these people that bought the jet for him?

And what is their source of income as well.

benzino007:
The time for the church to Manifest is here. When the world is saying there is a casting down, then we will say there is a lifting.

Why all these envying? Isaac was so blessed by keeping to the covenants and the Philistines envied him.

If you are jealous of these men of God, then do what they do and you too will see result!

You mean we should also start deceiving people to part with their money in the name of God.

debosky:
@ Kunle so you're baptist?

I was initially baptist, I regard myself as non-denominational now.

Kunle have you burnt your tithing card given your vehement opposition to tithing?

realpastor:
over to you kunle

Well in the baptist church which i grew up in Ibadan, even though tithing was preached occassionally it was never really emphaiszed and there were BNO tithing cards. But the church i currently attend in lagos they make use of tithing cards and i was very disappointed becos this is very unbiblical. how ever i just ignore them when it comes to the issue of tithes. I cannot say just becos my pastor preaches something which is clear to me is wrong that i should condone it.

Today i think i still attend baptist church not becos i believe all their doctrine but becos i find them to be more realistic than all these fake pentecostal churches that are springing up all over the place and are not accountable to anyone apart from their "daddy and mummy". In orientation i would say i am truly non denominational as i am a New testament believing christian who believes denominations in christianity is unbiblical. Howvever i am grateful to the baptist church for the foundation i have been able to get in christianity from them. i was also a very active member of the Royal Ambassadors. But ultimately i have learnt more about christianity through private studies and NOT the church. I actually believe that churches actually keep their congregations in darkness as far as true christianity is concerned.

ohaechesi:
the bible has stated it all, tithe is a necesity. It is up to you to adhere to God's word or choose to go about it in your own understanding. everyone is entitle to his or her opinion but God's words remain unchangeable.

So why are your tithe preaching pastors always trying to change God's word, or is biblical tithes described in deuteronomy the same as the tithes which your pastors preach today. Even after the bible makes it clear that the law of tithes is NOT applicable to christians.

segyemaro:
they wont hear cos of greediness.They know what they will lose if the should stop collecting tithes.

Evidently they don't fear God, stealing in God's name is the worst kind of sin imaginable no wonder the bible says that Judgement would start in the church.

@post
well it depends on your definition of hotel. An hotel is not neccessarily a brothel or a sinful place

pastor t:
It's a matter of choice. There's nothing wrong about it. Even Pastor Kumuyi was escorted during his crusade.

http://thepmnews.com/2009/03/20/thousands-storm-kumuyi%e2%80%99s-crusade

So becos kumuyi now uses escorts that makes it right