₦airaland Forum

It is a shame that Lagos overtook Ibadan that was by far the most populated as at 1960. However Oyo state should be ahead of Lagos in everything and the lack of collection of IGR is the main impediment or setback. Present Oyo should be like 60 percent or more of Lagos in population and they can make that percentage of Lagos IGR as well if they sit up. They can make more cause Lagos is seriously undercollecting. Oyo is more conducive have more potential is less stressful and etc than Lagos

IfnobeGod20:
umh!
You're real olodo rabata as the guy commented. Hundeyin is an indigene of Lagos. Real Omo onile and not atounbo. One of the real owner of Lagos is his parents. That someone is born in Akwa Ibom doesn't mean he is an indigene of that place. Someone like me, I was born in Kwara state and I am not a kwaran. State of residence is quite different from state of origin, please be informed and stop confusing yourself.

If he was born n Akwa Ibom, speaks the language, understands their world view and is ready to sign their undertaking an publicly pledge to put Akwa Ibom above all others then he is qualified as one of them. After all human beings are the same.

sojiooo1:
the lab is in Lagos, So which tribe are you expecting to be the highest. Go and set up the lab in Enugu and let’s see which tribe will patronize more (the outcome would already be determine before you even start. it call non probability). Am a statistician, we don’t conclude result like that because the result will be skewed base on location of the lab. u have to weight tribe that come with allocated probability to get accurate result. this lab need somebody that study Biostatistics or u stop paying the one u have

I don't think DNA test labs are that common, so Lagos might be well over fifty percent of national total or at least three times of total of labs in the SE. Just an estimate though

nairanaira12:
Lolz. The jews denied many things about Jesus, including his crucifixion. Read a book titled the Word and the Sword. Then lie to yourself Jesus wasn't mentioned in history.

Tell me where Jesus was mentioned in history. The Bible with a number of unknown authors is not an history book. Herod, Augustus Caesar, many Jewish Messiahs, Mohammed, Cyrus of Persia, Alaafin Sango, Obafemi Awolowo, Winston Churchill, George Washington, Genghis Khan, Buddha, Zoroaster and etc are people known to history. Nobody that actually lived was ever named Jesus Christ. That was a character precipitated from Isa a Jewish heretic that was executed for heresy by the Jews. If you call him Jesus, he would not answer you because he never bore any name remotely similar to that and he was not significant enough to be mentioned in Roman history like some of the viable Messiahs that were arrested by the Romans. Jesus was executed for heresy by Jews and we only know his history from letters written by his followers all of whom were Jews since he wanted nothing to do with Gentiles. The authors of some of the letters are not known. They may have been altered as well or at least cherry picked

gtassure:
This findings were done in Yoruba dominated area it's only natural yorubal numbers will be higher!

If Igbo numbers were higher, there would be talk that Yorubas have no money to afford the test by some commentators here despite the fact that there are probably no test center in the East and ninety percent or at least the majority of tests are probably done in Lagos.

nairanaira12:
I know because The Bible said it and even Quran confirms that the Bible is true.

But Jews who were actually there when it happened say No that Pantheras was Jesus biological father. Who is now worthy to be believed?. Considering Jesus was raised by Jews, lived and died a Jew while Mohammed heard the tale from his christian wife and Jesus actually came into prominence in the third century. He is not recorded in real history anywhere. Just in the Bible. A lie blown out of proportion is still a lie. It does not matter the number of believers

Throwback:
So David Hundeyin established his own standard to determine the existence of a human being?

He did not tell us about a non-existing academic record, or employment record, or medical record, or tax record, or residential record?

His own standard is that the Internet record is only about his admission of being Tinubu's classmate, and based on this Internet record it means he does not exist?

And you say this person is a trained journalist?

Why are you like this?. If he has no strings attached to him apart from an appearance on TVC owned by Tinubu then he does not exist. Tell us where he is working.

Redenomination as a solution is cosmetic at best. Nigeria is a country with many economic sectors with at least fifty million people earning income in whatever form. Maybe a maximum of 200,000 or much less work in the upstream oil sector and ninety percent of government revenue is gotten from that sector. The revenue profile is a recipe for disaster. In an organized Nigeria, oil revenue should be a maximum of ten percent of revenue but even five percent will be okay.

Funkyswagzz:
You sound funny.. the test clearly shows that yorubas don't trust there marriage. It's actually difficult to find someone who is faithful over there plus divorce rate is very high. That's why u see the likes of WizKid and davido who has baby mama all over the place

You expect more people than Yoruba to test in Lagos or Ibadan?. Though actually it maybe one of a few test centers in the country. Then other factors like who have the money to pay will also feature

ToInfinity7777:
This argument can never stop jare, but the real thing is that we're all Yoruba, no matter where we're from in Yoruba land, we should work for the progress of our land

Yes of course but there are also traditional states with different birth odus and different national identities just like siblings of the same parents are different from each other. Any land that goes under Ibadan or Ijesa will be ruled on the overall by their birth ODU but the one that birthed their particular town will still be relevant. For example Ose meji birthed Ibadan, Iwori Irosun birthed Ijesa Ogunda Irete birthed Lagos Island or Eko ile. Odi Irete birthed Osogbo, Okanran Iwori birthed Ilorin. Obara Otura birthed Iwo Osa Irete birthed Ede and these signs are like horoscope signs and if you believe horoscope signs are relevant then these ones are also relevant. They define the basic character of the nation but success ultimately depends on the leadership. For example, two wise people can have varied interests and that will determine the areas they will succeed in. If one good and one evil person are born under Irete meji both of them will always have their way but one will end in ruins and another in resounding success. So the birth odus are important as a guide and immediately you align under a sub nation then you are under their ODU as you identify as them and are greeted as them

ToInfinity7777:
In Ondo state, we have these Yoruba subgroup, Ilaje, Akure, Ondo, Akoko, Ikale, Owo, Apoi. Which one of these sees themselves as larger Ijesha? I'm Akure myself both parternal and Marternal. I know the whole story how we came from Ile-Ife down to Akure. Ijesha and Akure is related through Oduduwa our projenitor, that means on a larger part both Ijesha and Akure is part of larger Ile-Ife, because that's our source, but that Akure is Ijesha, No no no!

The ones nearer to Ijesa of course. Would you say Akure is more similar to Owo, Ilaje or Akoko than to Ijesa?. However they can stay on their own since they have been independent but if they have to choose all those areas near Ijesa in Ekiti and Ondo will choose Ijesa over Owo or Ado Ekiti of course. The majority of people in Okemesi would be Ijesa and the Ekiti appellation is referring to terrain not any national union. What Akure share with Ijesa is origin of title of the monarch which shows more or less that the Owa Obokun was much respected in Akure before the Benin invasion or are you disputing that. However Akure that has fought wars of independence severally is equipped to be an independent entity and the king has his style descended from Ijesa while other attributes may be descended from other places. In the case of Osogbo, the first Ataoja was someone qualified to be Owa obokun though the first Deji was also qualified since his mother was qualified and ten percent of Ijesa monarchs were women.
No matter how small a state, they can be independent or ally as they wish

ToInfinity7777:
The point is even before Benin incursion
, Akure was never part of Ijesha, Ijesha is just Akure neighbour, just like the Owo, Ondo, and Ekiti are all our neighbors. And that's why during the Ekiti parapo war, which also involved Ijesha solders, Akure was just chilling, although Akure rendered little assistant then, because there was a war camp in Iju/Itaogbolu. But the war doesn't involve Akure in any way.
All been said, Akure is more closer to Ekiti than anyone, be it in culture, food, music, art, etc, but still they can never say Akure should be part of them.

All Ekiti is not one. Is Akure closer to Ado Ekiti more than Ijesa in any way?. Is Okemesi Ekiti more Ekiti than Ijesa in any way? The location of the Fejeboju war was there and Fabunmi Okemesi that ignited the Kiriji war was from there and he will definitely align with Ijesa than with any other identity. They see themselves as more of Ijesa. Efon Alaaye speaks exactly the same dialect as Ijesa. A large part of Ekiti and Ondo see themselves more as Ijesa than any other identity in those two states. When they are free to choose you will realize this fact.

One thing is that if population is inflated then GDP size will undersize quoted population figure and the state will be deemed poor when actually it may not be but this is true only if Nigerian census figures are being used to calculate poverty rate. Problem with the North is education. Food is not the problem nor is it poverty that much because beggars are not necessarily poor. They just do it as a culture

ToInfinity7777:
See! Akure is not Ijesha, Akure was founded by Oduduwa grandson, and it's very ancient. Ijesha only came in later when the then Akure king married the Ijesha king's daughter, and the king love the name Ijesha king gave his son, which is Deji.
Akure and Ijesha were just in-laws then, nothing more. Akure has always survived on her own, the town was once invaded by Benin, but still survived it and fought for her independence. Akure will always be Akure on its own, forever.
Akure will always be a subgroup of the Yoruba race, just like Oyo, Ekiti, ijebu, Ijesha, Ilaje, etc

Yes Akure is not Ijesha but the origin of the Deji title is Ijesha and Akure obviously would have been Ijesa if not because of the Benin incursion into that territory which was pushed back at Ikeji ile Ijesa. If Ikeji ile was occupied in the sixteenth century as well, then it would not be Ijesa today just like Akure is not. If not because of states created by the military there would be an Ijesa state and many towns in Ekiti state and Ondo will align their lands under that state and accept Ijesa destiny.

absoluteSuccess:
Yes that's the truth. The Ijebu have a reason to lock up against outsiders, the history of the lost of their original home must have been responsible for this.

Pa. Alayande, emeritus Prof described this era in Ijebu history as "era of splendid isolation."

Not only that, Isale Ijebu was part of the wellspring of the ancient Ibadan, the Ijebu had a confrontation with the ancient Ibadan, hence the Ijebu decided to mind her business.

The Ijebu were one of the greatest people of the Yoruba folks. When we say we are omo Lua bi, we are identifying with our Ijebu roots as Yoruba, being the offspring of the king of righteousness.

But it was a wrong decision for Ijebu, Ijesa etc to be fighting Ibadan. It was myopic kind of. Their position was Ibadan wants to rule the whole world and they are obliged to nip the ambition in the bud!. Is that enough reason to fight against a proper nation in a world where China, India, US, Brazil and etc exists? But they were too attached to their primordial sentiments which was nothing more than stunted nationalism apologies to VP Atiku Abubakar. Ijebu would not be dissuaded even when an Ijebu became the Olubadan. Even a white man could become the Olubadan. So all those who fought Ibadan had no viable reason with which their actions could be justified because their monarchies and national identities were left undisturbed and all they were required to do was pay taxes up and if you settle in Ibadan you can become the head of the city. You can even be Magaji and relocate to your own regional capital etc etc. If not for them, maybe Ibadan today would be the capital of a major world power.
Omoluwabi means Omo olu iwa bi. It means a child born by the Prince of Iwa or the Lord of iwa. It means Oduduwa since Oduduwa is somebody who performed the Ofun meji sacrifice of Ogbaragada which means the person can never ever be faulted. Olu IWA is the same as Oduduwa. Olodumare is also Olu iwa or Oduduwa. The first Olofin is also Oduduwa. I guess that is the Ijebu story. If you therefore say Omo Olofin. It still means Omo Oduduwa because Oduduwa was the first Olofin Aye

All pre industrial civilizations that had cities also had identical economic sectors. City life is always fun and markets are always busy with long distance traders going back and forth and leaders trying to increase the territory they control for tax collection while looking out for invaders. It was basically the same all over the world but each civilization had its own peculiarities. The Yoruba had
1. Expertise in wood art
2. Expertise in metal art.
3. Very democratic monarchies where any Oba can be removed without notice and without bloodshed.
4. Long distance communication by talking drums
5. Highly developed theology and philosophy
6. Largest number of proverbs and wise sayings
7. Excessive respect for old age
8.. Pre industrial communism where you are a member of a household whether as a slave or as a freeborn while slaves and free men work together side by side. It was not uncommon for a Yoruba city to have eighty percent slaves with no possibility of rebellion.
There may be others but I think those are the main distinctive characters of the Yoruba civilization. The Oyo were a calvary culture while others were not.
The singular blessing or addition to the civilization from Europe is the industrial revolution. I have no doubt that if the Kiriji War had not happen then Yoruba would have been as organised and technologically advanced as the Japanese. It does not take more than serious leadership and the Japanese also fought a civil war to sort themselves before rising. Someone like Aare Latosisa was not less a nation builder than anyone on Earth back then.

absoluteSuccess:
Hmm, the Portuguese will never dare go to Ijebu, it would be the end of their forays into the West coast, hence they missed this annotations to being "the origin of the human race" by the all knowing Portuguese who knows about us from the beginning to the end. They will only hear about the Ijebu faintly.

Any non Ijebu you see in an Ijebu market would be a slave. They shut out not only Europeans but also other Yorubas. It was why Ibadan joined forces with Britain to invade them. They were shown in ancient maps as Gebu and it would be expected they controlled most of Lagos and Ogun before the Egba became a force to be reckoned with. Egba were originally Oyo as Lisabi was an Oyo aristocrat but I believe the bulk of them later came from the surrounding peoples.

Then Ijebu do not say they are the origin of the world. What they say is that the Awujale dynasty came directly from Ife Woodaye or Wadai in CAR and not from Ife Ooyelagbo that was established after the fall of Wadai

absoluteSuccess:
I want you to see clearly that what you are complaining of with lawani is what you are doing against the Awori.

The people who were original owners of their lands were "inconsequential" in their history as long as one or more people claimed they were "conquered", so it's "territorialism" going on.

I am Awori, and a direct descendants of Oba Ado. We hold Bini in high esteem as Awori because they are kinsfolks, but the history of betrayal claimed we are a conquered people.

There's no conquest if it can't be proven.

You misquote me. I never said Benin were conquered. No Yoruba has ever said that. What I say is that the Benin empire was a Yoruba empire with Yoruba capital and more Yoruba speaking people than any other group. I never and will never say Benin were conquered by Yoruba. It is the fellow above who is obsessed about his ancestors rough handling other people. What I addressed with some of my published works is to point out why Benin empire was Yoruba and why Oduduwa did not come from Ogiso kingdom but was infact a descendant of Nimrod who was King of Sumeria five thousand years ago and he was probably an Egyptian aristocrat. Nothing more than that. You can not do academics with overwhelming emotions

absoluteSuccess:
There would be no conquest if the account never tally. There must be a reason a place was conquered, if that is not established, we look at founding.

How would the possibility of Edo being part of the founding fathers of Lagos hurt the history of Bini? The name of the first king of Lagos is Oba Ado, he was the son of Ashipa.

And Ashipa is a Yoruba name common in Oyo and etc. I am not saying Iduwina and Iduekae mean all those things of course but just pointing out to him how such words are constructed and there is no doubt those quarters were named by Yorubas of old Benin during the empire times. I only respond with insult to insults and only an idiot will insult somebody without expecting a backlash. I am only pointing out that the empire was Yoruba and language was Yoruba and it was the language spoken in the city which was over 50k in population back then. They named Ogutun Agenebode and etc and their nobles have titles that are Yoruba language peculiar to Benin Yoruba. Ijesa titles are not Oyo titles and Ijebu titles are also distinct, so if Benin titles are distinct does not mean it is not Yoruba language. You find such titles only in Yoruba land and not in Edoid groups east of Benin. I don't know why the young man thinks history is insult. The fact is all Benin neighbors have history of defeating Benin in battle and if you think your state was never defeated, it means you feel insecure and have an ego problem. The last state to take tribute from Benin city was Ibadan and it was Ogedengve of Ijesa acting on behalf of Ibadan before the civil war broke out but some Benin will claim it was Britain that ended the Benin empire!. Is that not an ego problem by those young Benins?. They ended Benin by invasion but left Egba until 1914?. Even Ilorin that had a real confrontation with Britain after the Kiriji war and signed an agreement still with them don't go about saying it was only Britain that stopped Ilorin when they know they were tributary to Ibadan. Why is Ijesa not saying Ijesa was only conquered when Ogedengbe was arrested by Captain Bower?.What should Ijebu say that the Ibadan had to ally with Britain before they were forcefully opened up for trade? And that is the only reason Ijebu land is balkanized into Lagos and Ogun and Ijebu ode is not a capital city. If any entity in Nigeria is to say they lost opportunity to colonisation, it would be Ibadan but how many times have you heard them do that?. Nobody is saying Benin was not successful but in the nineteenth century when Britain, France and Germany were the relevant European powers in West Africa, Benin was no longer in existence as a power. It was the Portuguese that knew them. Ijesa, Ijebu, Egba Dahomey, etc were far more organized and successful in the nineteenth century not to talk of Oyo and Benin had reverted to an Edo state that it was originally as a result of the original landowners reentering the city in large numbers. I see no reason to accept the Benin narrative being peddled because history is an academic discipline and should contain only facts as much as possible. I can not accept something manifestly false while still alive. It is a fact that the British monarchy is of French Viking origin and that is why the English language is very French sounding and I believe that if the monarchy had led the British empire instead of British corporations then it is French that would have been the language of the British empire. It would be a Romance empire with something like English as well as many Celtic languages spoken in the British isles. Nobody debates heatedly in Britain that French was not the language of the court. Anywhere I see pedestrian conclusionsI I do my best to bring illumination and most people bow to superior arguments without resorting to insults like the fellow above, I discovered that Yoruba language is nothing more than a mixture of Kemitic Egyptian, Igboid, Edoid and a significant spicing from Nupoid and etc that has taken up a life of its own and that is an academic fact which only fools will deny but some Yorubas still argue just like the fellow above. I don't debate like that but I respond to insults If they bring proof of.Edo being the language of the Benin empire I will reverse my position immediately I am not a pedestrian academic. I have been published in several journals more varied than any scholar on Earth from chemical engineering to history to genetics to International economics to poetry to politics, social sciences and theology

Iduakae is owned by Akure people
Iduowina is owned by Owena Ijesa people and etc etc. Edo as a word itself is a corruption of Ido or Idu

AKPAMA211:
tell him to also stop his insult, he is insulting us (Edos)with his severe ignorance and it is not funny anymore, since i have been reading his argument, he has not quoted one paper, he just make claims he cannot back up, even when several materials are given to him. He does not accept and still goes back to his previous claims

He uses “be civil”to subtly pass his useless agenda, i want to let him know Benin people are the hallmark of violence. I have seen through him, and I promise with my life to insult him into oblivion.

You are a bastard. Tell me where I insulted you. You lack proper upbringing and are very uncouth

absoluteSuccess:
Everyone have to calm down and study. In as much as I disagree with him on many grounds, I don't agree with your claims either. But I can't ask you not to tell your perceived truth.

We have to learn from both sides.

For instance, how many people, king or chief were killed at the conquest of Lagos, what is the traditional Bini version of this invasion and what impasse or crisis precede the conquest?

Everybody conquer in theories.

Thank you for your approach which shows good upbringing and etc. I wrote a curse against him but it did not upload. Please highlight what you want me to elucidate. I am a purely academic minded person who would withdraw from any unsound position and I do that frequently. Can you point to the faults in my positions so that I can have a new conclusion starting from today. Meanwhile any Idu in Benin is a Yoruba name of which the people there don't know the meaning unless it is a word they share with Yoruba. Ido is Idu which means settlement and there are many Yoruba place names like that. Ido Ajinare. Ido Ani, Ido Ijesa and many others. They should show Edoid place names outside Benin with Idu or Ido or show us Idumota Iduganran in Benin or start claiming it was Edo speaking people that established all Idus in Yoruba land

absoluteSuccess:
Stop your insult, tell your story.

Nobody stops you from telling your story bro.

He is one of the never do well bastards who were not given good upbringing. He will never amount to anything worthwhile. Such people don't.

Okada691:
aside this Yoruba historian who noted now that the Binis invaded and instituted the monarchy, other historians of note also wrote in support of the idea that the Binis instituted the monarchy. From Bradbury to Ryder all supported the theory that the Oba of Lagos is a direct offshoot of the Oba of Benin. As with conquest and Invasion, there are usually renaming of towns, that is why they started renaming quarters with the Edo language he is used to.

Idumota ~ota people’s district, Idunsagbe, Iduntafa, idunmagbon and so on even the town, he renamed it Eko. Which directly translates to War camp.

Even the Oba of Lagos once said that he is a direct descendant of the Oba of Benin

Benin established a monarchy in a village at the time derived from a small military post stationed there but a village overtime can become a metropolis. The Benin that came there spoke a southeastern Yoruba dialect while the Awori spoke a variant of the same southeastern Yoruba. They were the same people and there was no war. If there was a war it would be recorded in history. It was just in the seventeenth century not farther back. The Eleko royal family was established by Benin but it disconnected from Benin when Benin declined and was even paying tribute to Akure. It became relatively prosperous on its own. It was birthed by Ogunda Irete and Lagosians believe who managed to make it happen was an Awo from Ijesa land who they saw as a sage. He wanted to return to Ijesa and he was tied down by being given a princess to marry from the royal family and a palace was built for him. He was literarily enthroned and all Lagos monarchs are his descendants but they are also descended from Benin from the mother of Ologunkutere who was the son of the Awo by the princess. The monarchy itself was started by Benin and three chiefs are from Benin Bajulaye whose name current Benin can not pronounce well, Ashogbon and Oshodin, the other chiefs are not Benin but their own Benin was Yoruba speaking Benin and if your own is not it means it is not the same thing. The three chiefs of Benin origin in Lagos came from a Yoruba speaking capital not from one calling Bajulaiye Bazulaye not one that can not pronounce Deji of Akure

It is just like an Ijesa man saying Joshua is a corruption of Ijesa or Jebusite is a corruption of Ijebu or Irish is derived from Iresa when their forefathers or people speaking their language have never set foot in the place before the twentieth century.

Edoid languages spoken outside Benin? Definitely yes since Edoid languages are plentiful stretching to Rivers, Bayelsa and etc. Benin language outside Benin was not spoken anywhere outside Benin before the twentieth century. Benin of course can not speak Edo to Itsekiri or Ijaw or Ilaje that would have transported them to Lagos and the population of Lagos island as at then was maybe three to five thousand individuals in the seventeenth century or so. Among those people there were Ijesa people, Egba, Ijebu and etc and we have evidence for that as the present King of Lagos is descended from Ologunkutere whose father Baba Alaagba was an Ijesa man. He was not the first Ijesa to settle in Lagos. There were Ijesa in Benin definitely and Benin in Ijesa and the family of my maternal grandma is from the Benin capital in Ipetu Ijesa and they are Yoruba Alawiye is the name . It is a no brainer actually that Benin aristocrats were Yoruba as they could not have been anything else. They have no neighbors at all to speak Benin to. All those names like Iga Iduganran means palace built on a pepper farm. Iganran is the Awori word for pepper. Iga is a Yoruba word for palace among Awori, Ijebu and etc. In deep Yoruba it can mean exalted. Idu in Iduganran is not different from Ido in Ido Ani, Ido Ajinare etc. It means settlement or place of abode. Ido iganran or Iduganran means a place of pepper or pepper farm. Idumota might mean the dwelling of Ota people. Go there and ask them and it is whatever they tell you, you will accept. Nobody there will tell you it is a Benin word. Benin people are not known to the average Awori prior to Nigeria. Who they knew are Ijesa Ijebu, Egun, Hausa, Ijaw, Ghana people and etc. It was Nigeria that brought Edo people to Lagos island for the first time but their Yoruba speaking aristocrats were brought definitely by either Ijaw or Itsekiri seafarers who are Yoruba speakers. I hope you understand now. No Benin aristocrat would speak Edo to Ijaw or Itsekiri people and they did not even understand the language back then

You should have one nationality and your heritage can't be changed even if you wished. What is stopping an European couple from adopting any Nigerian culture? However the cultures are being eroded fast presently. A married couple can take up citizenship anywhere they wish and that they are accepted and anything they were before then would be heritage and that applies to their kids too

Who should challenge a political party that cleared a candidate for primaries who used a stolen identity of a woman when he is a man?. Anybody can do that. Not necessarily even the political opponent. Any random person can get the Identity thief arrested or take the political party to court

absoluteSuccess:
It is a good idea that this linguituc cluster have common origin.



You have said that they have much tones and it has to come to play in their linguitucs.



I think Edo is an independent city State from time and never was a Yoruba satellite. They don't need to patronize Yoruba to be a people, and Yoruba don't have to control Edo to be an empire. None of us have lived so long to know what language was spoken in prehistoric Edo or Yoruba. So we can't become a proxy authority whose claims are self-validated.

Most of all, all these territorialism that we are robing as history may not exist in the days of our ancestors, possibly it's religion that binds them together, you need to stop and think sometimes and ask, would Africa fight a war over land that was never a problem or rather pray for expansion to fill the land?



That simply implies that it's older than the Yoruba language from your perspective and therefore, it's the other way around with the titles. It's not easy making a far reaching conclusion on prehistoric group like that of the west coast, hence it's better to approach the mulky waters without much bias.

God bless your wit sir.

Edo has always been independent and they were the ones who made a Yoruba man their Oba. There is the Oranmiyan story and there is also another Irete meji story of another person entirely named Sasore in the same Benin. All without war or coercion. Not different from how Oduduwa was installed in Ile Ife less than two thousand years ago or the Baba Alaagba in Lagos. The installation of that Oduduwa partly accounts for the language we now speak in my opinion. They were a Kingdom before admitting a new King just like other Edo or Yoruba kingdoms and today they are still a kingdom like they were before inviting those people but to be spreading wrong history of the empire being run with Edo language is a disservice to history because in reality the empire was Yoruba and the ancestors of all royalties founded from Benin were Yorubas and not Edoid people by any stretch of the imagination. That is what needs to be set right. What they have now is Benin kingdom which is Edo while the empire in it's totality was Yoruba. That is the issue. Though I am not a linguist but I will want to believe that the Edoid branch of YEAI is more primordial to the group as a whole than the other branches. It makes sense because they are more southerly and therefore less vulnerable to adulteration from the North. However it does not really mean much of anything since even the Edoid group has diverged into tens of distinct languages that are mutually unintelligible. The level of it's complexity is also not so much more than Yoruba that has five tones with three very commonly used. Bear in mind that some languages in Asia have up to eight tones and some in South Africa have click sounds but I believe Edoid group is the least adulterated cluster of YEAI. They are exposed only or mainly to Ijaw and Ijaw too has been there since God knows when. We are all historians and anybody can add perspective and I will not sit and watch while anybody spreads as truth something that is manifestly wrong

AKPAMA211:
dont be a fool, the language of the Bini empire was not Yoruba.

You are one big ignorant fool who just post what he wishes or what he feels, there is no empire that’s surrounded on all side, you only have Edo groups that are bilinguals on border areas and nothing more.

Ugbodumila and itsekiri would not make more than ten percent of delta state.

The Edoid group speaking Yoruba only do so on the fact that they are on the border areas. The “Yoruba” communities in Edo state, many of them are not pure Yoruba but Edo, they speak Yoruba because alongside because they directly border Ondo state.


In the whole of the Midwest, which consists of Edo and Delta state the Yoruba group which would be Ugbodumila and itsekiri cannot be more than 5percent of the Population of the Midwest.

When you compare the Two ovia local government together. The population of these two local governments combined would Give the Bini communities there up to 80% of the population of these two local government when they are combined. Ijaw 15% then the pure Yoruba communities 5%.

Itsekiri is not to the east of Benin, get education my brother you are so ignorant.

If the Europeans saw Some chiefs whose ancestry might actually be Yoruba praying in Yoruba, does that make it absolute, what of the abundant fact that has been given to you to corroborate his argument.

Bajulaiye as you guys call it was actually borrowed from Benin. It is a chieftaincy title which directly translates to the Oba brings life. It is correctly pronounced Obazuaye

Those your interpretations of Ughoton and Agenebode are so fake and foolish


Afenmai is made up of three groups, the Owans, the Etsakos which are the largest, then Akoko Edo

At most only ten percent of Etsakos speak Yoruba, alongside their first dialect and it would be those from Agbede.

Owan about thirty, the rest seventy percent don’t speak it, Akoko Edo only speak it as a second language. There is no community in Akoko Edo that speak it as a sole language.

Esan do not speak it at all

Binis at most 5-7 speak it alongside their Edo dialect

In delta state, the itsekiris might just be the smallest group in the whole of Midwest aside uneme and maybe Okpamheri.

In 1952, they were 34 thousand while Isoko the closest was 74 thousand. I don’t think they have rivaled that figure if not for Nigeria censuses that Favour the big three affiliated groups. You can find the Isoko in two full local government. They also have about 6 wards in Ndokwa east. The itsekiris are only fifty percent of warri south. 70 percent of warri north and 55 percent of Warri south west. That’s all.

The Ijaws are in three local government and they also have about 20 percent of the population of the three Warri local government combined. Even the Urhobos are not left out. They also make at least 20 to 25 of the population of Warri, itsekiri would at most make up 55 percent of Warri, so where is the Yoruba population again

Anioma has about 15 percent of the population of the Midwest And the only community Yoruba speaking community there would be 0.002 of the population of anioma. So how are are both state now Yoruba covered.

The method of communication from the palace of Benin to the several communities in Edo and Delta state that were under his domain was that there was a representative of each community who was fluent in both Edo the palace language and the language of his community in order to pass such message communicated from the palace to his community

You are simply an idiot because I never mentioned any percentage only that Benin itself is surrounded on all sides by Yoruba speaking communities on their own lands. Population is irrelevant and can become any amount tomorrow. Land ownership is not in doubt. Don't come here to lecture nonsense. None of what I posited has been proved wrong and it remains a fact that Yoruba even till today is entrenched in the territory and there is no chance whatsoever of Edo language not intelligible to anyone apart from Edo indigenes being used to pass messages officially to anyone within the empire. Any individual speaking Benin in Ovia area most probably settled in the place recently after the establishment of Nigeria. They can be indigene only if the language they are speaking is not Benin. Benin People never stepped out of their habitat immediately around the palace walls in the past. Once again. I never mentioned percentage and you can reread my post. I am not interested in the discussion you want to open on percentages. Start another thread for that one.

absoluteSuccess:
Let us go by the history that connects us with Bini, it says they requested for a Yoruba prince during a turmoil. Was this the begining of Yoruba language in Bini history or they have been speaking Yoruba language before this history birthed?

This will help us with the dilution to come. And the proof of what language the Bini speaks would be manifest in their royal names down the ages into our time, are they straightforward Yoruba names?



Brother, there's no point trying to subjugate Bini in history of the Yoruba as another Yoruba achievement. Instead, the Bini is another sister state with the Yoruba just like you have in the case of ketu or Sabe, or the Ana in far away Togo.

The Yoruba did not subjugate Bini as we have in the history of the Yoruba's, written by Rev. Samuel Johnson. What we were told was that they requested for a Yoruba prince. At this point, what association did they have with the Yoruba and what age was this?



By mere looking at us, you know that West Africa have old timers and new comers. The new comers were the Shua Arabs and the Fulani. The old timers were the true West Africans. These old timers were the true black and whose history stemmed from the same source.

Our languages fade out of tune to the one we each speaks presently in our various places. By and large, the Yoruba is known as far as Timbuktu in the 16th century as Yoruba. The Yoruba have something to do with the Hausa right from inception, the Yoruba is connected to Dahome and to Bini.

The network has been from inception.

Anybody can have any version of history but what can not be controverted is that the language of the Benin empire was Yoruba and today's Benin was spoken only in the suburbs. This is why the whole empire is surrounded on both sides by Yoruba speaking settlement. Ugbodumila in Delta representing the Olukumi, Warri of the Itsekiri all to the East of Benin with Olukwumi cut off from other Yoruba. Adjacent Edoid groups like the Afemmai are fluent Yoruba speakers up till date. In Ovia LG are Yoruba towns. So how can it be possible for Edo language which can not be understood a few miles from Benin to be the empire's language?. All European records of the time show Yoruba being spoken in the capital. A prayer to Olokun was recorded by a Portuguese as Mo be o MO be o Umale okun etc. Then the names they have on their list are their own spelling and nit the correct spelling. Even today they call the Deji of Akure Udezi of Akure and they call Bajulaye (The king is supreme on Earth) Bazulaye and there are many other examples of the mutilation of Yoruba words. Ogotun in Edo state is spelled Ughotoun or so. Ago Onibode is spelt Agenebode. So anybody can bear any name in a foreign land and any list presented by them is definitely wrong by spelling as well as by pronunciation of names. Edo was spoken in the palace is not the same thing as Edo was language of the empire but both are wrong. Edo speaking began inside the city after the collapse of the empire. You can't use the Edo language to run the empire filled by Yorubas on all sides and it was only when there was no longer any empire that the Edos entered the city and gradually changed the language. It is important to tell history correctly. Thousands of years back there was no distinction between Yoruboid Edoid Igboid and etc but they separated and a large group joined the Yoruba from Egypt bringing almost half of their current vocabulary, then we have from the Igboid and the Edoid as well, Nupe, Hausa and etc to give birth to what today is the Yoruba language. I think the Edoid group may be the least disturbed among Yoruba Igbo and Edoif followed by Yoruba then Igboid. This is my belief as it appears it uses more tones than Yoruba while Yoruba use more tones than Igbo. Yoruba has five tones with two very rare but I think Edo has up to four used frequently and it is somewhat a measure of how longstanding and undisturbed a language is though adjacent Edoid groups can't understand them. I am not disputing any of their claims to them , the best I can do is say my own opinion based on facts on the ground for the benefit of readers. I agree about old timers and newcomers in West Africa and apparently Edo language may be and is infact is obviously more indigenous to West Africa than Yoruba language which is an Egyptian language by almost fifty percent of vocabulary. A large number of Yoruba vocab entered west Africa not too long ago.

absoluteSuccess:
Hmm, that's the truth, ijagbon or agbon is Yoruba for the jaw. I was at ipetu Ijesha about a decade ago in search of Yoruba history. Old memories.

As to the Edo language, I beg to differ sir. The Edo is as important as Yoruba right from the cradle. What we have for now is more like the remnants of a defunct country that compromised these entities we now call ethnicities.

Let's say there used to be a country called West Africa in the past, possibly 2500 years ago, in which the people moved around and the capital changed many times in the course of the centuries. So, cities rise and wane.

It will take a miracle for Edo language to ever exist if we have to go by your claim, where it's impossible to find three speakers before the turn of 19th century. But the fact is, this language exist, how then did it survive? This cancelled your argument.

We're presenting history from our "mindset", so everyone have angle or ulterior motives. What I always advocate is, let the oral records speak. Nobody have monopoly of knowledge.

If it's good Yoruba tell Bini history, it's good Bini tell Yoruba history too, at least, both have been there from start.

Solution, allow the fact speak, not opinion from either side.

I did not say the language never existed but that it was not the language of the Benin empire but was only spoken behind the Benin city walls and never for official use. Will I be wrong to say Fon was never used officially at any point in Ilesa or Ipetu Ijesa by three free people standing together before the twentieth century?. History must be accurately presented and defended by stakeholders while any misrepresentation is called out at once. I also have family members that originated from that area as well. West Africa was not one country or union at anytime in history but there were empires and a great deal of organisation in the past, new people coming to settle, building new languages by taking words from many others and new nations by inflow from all directions and that is true for every region on Earth. Not only West Africa.