₦airaland Forum

nigerians and attention,

@poster
i totally agree with you,however you didnt add tribalism,electroral illiteracy

meexteriox:
@Lucabrasi
Are you saying some few renegades were more important than the destiny of the whole nation?
Are you saying a free and fair election was thwarted in the interest of national security?
Do you know that was the best opportunity of really enthroning democracy in Nigeria?

no they are not,but when they start raising their shackles and making veiled threats of destabilising the country through coups e.t.c then they are
im sure you will agree with me that dictatorship,annulling a free and fair election e.t.c is a viable alternative to what happened in rwanda, you seem to forget nigeria wasnt always like it is presently,do you realise we r talking of a time when the millitary held sway,when a group fo millitary men with the help of goc s and co could plan a coup within a couple of months?

meexteriox:
What national interest was he talking about, anyway. He sold us that lie to enthrone his thieving brother (Abacha) to power.
Those are vivid lies from the bottom of hell. I don't buy it one bit. For me, the voice of the people is the voice of God. Nigerians spoke
on june 12th, without molestation, without imposition, and you claim the election was thwarted because a few cursed, doomed
individuals felt it was their turn to rule? National security indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

the first line of your comment here is the pertinent point here,looking back at the relationship between abiola,abacha and ibb, who do you honestly think ibb will trust more between the two to do his bidding? a serving millitary man who is clearly ambitious and abrasive in his ways and manners?or abiola who has not only been his bossom friend but a man that will be easier for ibb to control if need be with the threat of another coup .

i see you are allowing sentiments to overrule your stance here,we are all in agreement that ibb annulled the freeest and fairest election in history,in fact ibb admitted as well.the point here is that if he had not annulled it,what cost would have been paid by
1.ibb
2.nigerians
are you saying nationwide bloodshed is not too much price to pay for this?
the funny thing is that abiola's fellow yoruba friends actually pressurised i.b.b apart from the afrc/abacha and his co horts, so its really funny when i hear people claiming the north annulled the election because they wanted to rule lol

meexteriox:
What bloodshed was he avoiding, by the way? Martin Luther King Jr summed it up in this few words: If a man hasn't discovered something
he will die for, he isn't fit to live. IBB, isn't fit to live.

Considering running for the presidency will be a slap on us all. Please, spare me that lecture on ''RIGHT''. He has simply missed his mark here.
He should bury his head in shame.

hmmn, and you think its in a nigerian psyche to confront violence and blood shed lol lol, dont let any nigerian tell you to lead and they ll follow o, because they will abandon you,ask abiola and the people pushing and urging him not to accept conditional release.
ibb has been out of power for how long now,and worse things have happened,how come the keyamos,falanas e.t.c are not ready to die?talk less of a millitary man who has stolen enough and needs to retire to enjoy his loot.

are you saying he hasnt got a right,as long as he is not being pre-cluded due to being disqualified or for whatever reason,then i believe its his right to contest,its left for we nigerians not to vote with out stomachs but disregard the 1000naira bribe and vote our conscience

Muza:
in as much as i agree with u,i will like to point out that previously,the unspent funds from the unimplemented budget goes into private pockets,
the fact that the unspent funds are remitted back to the treasury should be considered a plus,we hav to start 4rm smwhere,
some day we might not hav to hear about unspent funds again if budget are fully implemented.

the fact that it goes into private pockets prior to yar adua doesnt mean they deserve applause though does it?
its like applauding them for shifting from looting one side to another,i dont think that "some dqay" will ever come to pass if the perpetuators are not brought to book and they keep on been patted oon the head by executives and the public

meexteriox:
@Lucabrasi and BIG B1
I don't understand it when you guys say, that the elections millions of Nigerian
adults voted in was thwarted because some few renegades felt Abiola could not
rule. An election that would have set a precedence for all elections in Nigeria today.
An election declared as ''free and fair'' by the ''whole world''.
Okay, your argument, Abiola was also fraudulent. What about Abacha? Was he the messiah
that did us good. You guys are simply overlooking the possessive greed expressed by this man
(IBB and his cohorts).

you r not getting it,by babangida's exerps(and this phrase is used intentionally)he never said his reasons were because abiola was not capable of ruling,the reason he annuled the election was because
1.the military men in charge of the nation's millitary machinery literally gave him an ultimatum,sort of a veiled threat and he chose the lesser of two evils.
2.he was doing it in the interest of national security i.e avoidance of nationwide blood shed,we all know what happened during the civil war years down the line and we still have not recovered from it.

of course they were all in cahoots together,i dont doubt that for one second,that is what gave abiola the confidence to run when he did,so i am not holding brief for a specific one of them just that these things are not as clear cut as our emotions are leading it to.

meexteriox:
@Lucabrasi and BIG B1


I'm beginning to get dizzy with disdain at your utterances. One of you even had the gut to say
IBB re contest election in the same Nigeria where he cowardly gave in to Abacha whims.
Please, give us a break, and take your useless campaign/praise singing else where.

there is no disdain anywhere,we are just stating hard cold objective facts,from deductions of the evidece we have at our disposal,,if ibb wants to re contest,its his right as a nigerian,you and i and everyone has the choice of either voting or not voting for him abi?
he gave in to abacha's whims because he was avoiding bloodshed,if he hadnt what dyu reckon would have happened?BEARING IN MIND THE SUPPORT AND MILLITARY MACHINERY ABACHA WAS IN CONTROL OF
the day we nigerians look at issues dispassionately and objectively is when we will begin to emerge from the doldrums of mental jail

[quote author=B.O.S.S. link=topic=176871.msg3431106#msg3431106 date=1233859495]But the same Lucabrasi said (in the past pages) that he called Nigeria and he asked a few people about this your man[/quote]of course i did,but like i said if you cared to read my comments "IF THE ONLY NEGATIVE VICE AGAINST THE GUY IS DRINKING AND WOMANISING"note the bolded,

its not for me to judge the guy because i dont know him nor have any intention of doing so,but going by what i heard and what you guys have said on here,even your allegations have been against the guy's brother and not the guy himself,hope we are not expecting the guy to suffer for his brother's indiscretions,after all they have a father and mother who are still alive,that is their role,and like the toks ajayi said, we havnt seen any evidence to show that the guy has stolen any money or committed any criminal offence,neither has he done anything contrary to what a young man in nigeria who suddenly came into money after years of poverty will do,which is simply youthful exuberance

@bawomolo
they wont throw yansh over bonnet lol lol because they r getting paid adequately including being provided with life insurance and other welfare benefits ,nigerian police dont, like someone said,what is to say the lady didnt have something incriminating in her possesion anyway?
we all read of the vanguard owner's wife who used a young boy for rituals,im sure if most people saw that woman on the road in her luxury car,dressed up gorgeously you ll conclude the police were trying to extort money from her not knowing she has a mobile freezer at the back of her car containing a dead human being

neve:
@LUCABRASI

Did you actually call Singaporean police, poverty stricken?  

Now that's so hilarious. Because i lived in Singapore, and i can authoritatively say, those men are far from poverty stricken. In fact they one of the highly paid police officers in Asia.

And not only that, they provided with all the latest technology, to make their work easy. so the comparison is simply void.

i hear you and i stand corrected,but like i have been harping on,singaporean police are not the issue here but the fact that disrepect for the police irrespective of whatever can only happen in nigeria, i ll go back and educate myself on their standards of living   but the crime rate and the total discipline of singaporeans is a credit to their excellent job,i know that for a fact that you cant drop ordinary paper in public there or risk being thrown in jail

@boss
you are not getting issues in perspective here,first of is singapore the issue?how come you are fixated on singapore,its not like i singled singapore out as a poverty ridden nation so whats the problem here?why are you not going on about zimbabwe that i mentioned,
besides does my knowledge of singaporian economy hinge on my comments?of course not!!

lets not derail the thread as usual with the merits and demerits of singapore,the issue which we should focus on is that in no country in the world no matter how backward,will you literally mow a police personell down and go away scot free outside of nigeria,not even ghana or benin republic(hope these examples are ok for you if singapore is a sore point)

of course everyone knows police do not strike normally,but i will like you to flick through this article to show that anywhere in the world,there is the tendency for them to strike when they are pushed to the world
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/dec/12/politicalnews.immigrationpolicy

brazillian police strike,http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1447334.stm

as you can see,the recurrent decimal in all these strikes though illegal is pay,now add that to the deplorable conditions the nigerian police are going through which is ten times worse than what these brazillian or british police can ever imagine and then repeat your comments that its the law and cant happen

@poster
you really should do some reading and the underlying reasons for the return of the unspent funds,i promise you that rather than applauding them,you will be pouring vitriol on the technocrats and the executives.

the budget itself is not the problem but implementation like we all know,however because the capital expenditure is really difficult for the technocrats,ministers e.t.c to steal from because of the reps over sight functions,what they now do is spend all the recurrent expenditure which is easier to steal,put all these unspent billions in nigerian banks negotiating interests for them and simply take the interests and return the bulk money to government,as you can fathom from this,they have been sitting on their asses all year doing nothing and getting paid for it,rather than the executives bringing them to book,they pat them on the head for a job well done like you are doing now,the house of reps are powerless to do anything about it while nigerians are suffering, so in this instance the ministers especially for works and the ministry officials are the real devils,

what the man has done and is still doing is in- excusable but i really dont see why her daughter's privacy should be violated in this manner,i hope the poster realises that this is an offence, and should take the necessary steps to pull the picture off or whoever is in charge here should block this, post the man's picture in his toilet or any private pics of him,not of his children especially a privateclosed account

in spite of the roger,half current or full current these police officers are collecting,like the dude said in his comment,if they strike for one single day,nigeria will turn upside down

@b.o.s.s.
maybe most nigerians who dont agree that the nigerian police puts their life on the line needs to visit oduduwa police station in g.r.a, its not more than 15mins drive from my house in lag so i know, policement get killed like flies but the media dont report it,a friend of mine who is late now, armed robbers wiped all their family out even after the man's retirement just because he was being a conscentious officer while in service,out of a family of like 5 only one son survived,amongst several cases but they never get reported,remember all these guys are working without life insurance,no safety equipments,old weapons,no life insurance and definitely no welfare package, the lucky ones get accomodation of a single room and parlour in run down barracks while the majority live inside police cells and have their bath very early in the morning on the police station grounds, pls find out these facts before making a judgement.

singaporean officers being poverty riddn r not is not an issue,but the fact that,the woman will not dare do it anywhere else in the world.
[quote author=must_a_far link=topic=229515.msg3430990#msg3430990 date=1233858030]i would have said this was a case of assault on the part of the driver. she wasnt trying to run thru the policewoman, these are traffic policemen. the police officer saw it fit to sit on the hood of her car. while the car was either moving or about to move.[/quote]what would do have had her do,break her side mirror or windscreen?im sure we are both agreed that would have been easier and justifiable with the pictures, american diasporians will bear me witness that them never born the fore father of that person,even george bush or obama that would touch an american police officer's uniform talk less of using a car to push, that person will be eating eba with baba GOD that day

bawomolo:
Why put your yansh in front of a vehicle? na so them dey train them

what would do have had her do,break her side mirror or windscreen?im sure we are both agreed that would have been easier and justifiable with the pictures,can you do it to lapd officers?

dammy who??

nuzo:
Start by posting your real identity first.

after you pls, why should i,did i mandate you to post yours or guilty conscience is plaguing you,after all others on here didnt respond to the comment cause it doesnt apply to them lol i havnt posted and im virtually cyber lynched at every corner

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=229329.msg3430597#msg3430597 date=1233853014]Lucrabasi

Listen to yourself. There is a risk that 1 in every 5 children born in Nigeria would die before their 5th birthday, do u then because of this abort an already formed embryo.

Why conduct the election in the first place? Why waste our resources on the election?

It's simply not logical.

The only reason IBB cancelled the election was cause of tribal sentiments and personal greedy. Nothing in this world can justify that evil act[/quote]the element of risk in that instance was not 1 in 5, more like 4 in 5

remember in the military at that time,the top echelon (afrc)were not in agreement
you can appreciate the power abacha and his loyalists had in a millitary government,we all saw how atiku stood his ground in a civillian administration talk less of a millitary one where the officer who has controll of the millitary has controll of government.

this is not new,gordon brown virtually pushed tony blair out of number ten in fact t.blair's wife made a public comment that g brown bullied her husband out of government,im sure you know that abacha wanted to have his turn at being head of state and he had overwhelming support because of the greed and ambition of the others,so what power really has ibb got?

he conducted the election for reasons i do not know but going simply by the facts on ground including accounts of some of the actors we have read and heard,they didnt expect the landslide victory, you can imagine abacha thinking that they have skewed the election in favour of tofa and their suprise at the landslide victory of abiola,at that point a planb had to be put in effect or they ll kiss aso rock good bye,dont even talk about wasting resources as these guys have absolutely no conscience, havnt the present politicians done same?
wasted resource in constitutional amendment during obj
wasted resource on the various probes
wasted resource on the retreat when they all toured the niger delta e.t.c

i could go on, a lecturer in my brother's university told him,when he learnt he was nigerian that he loves nigeria so much,he was invited as a researcher and expert to supervise a state project,when he got there,he was paid 20,000 pounds and put on the plane back to the u.k after 1 week lol

[quote author=must_a_far link=topic=229329.msg3430575#msg3430575 date=1233852758]mind numbing argument up there


Lucab, is your argument painting a picture of him helping avert a coup? cos all he did was defer it to a later date, aka abacha snatching power.[/quote]exactly my point from my understanding of his comment,that shows that there was either an element of truth in his assertions or he is telling the truth

meexteriox:
It would have been better for IBB to have announced the result, inaugurated Abiola's Government and scampered away.
Do you know why?
The annals of history would have been crowded with his effort at enthroning true democracy during his tenure.
He should have left the rest for history to judge. One worthwhile task carried to a successful conclusion is better
than half a hundred half finished task. What did Abacha accomplish during his tenure?

yes,and we nigerians would have been saying he was not only a thief,but a coward who sabotaged m.k.o and ran away to enjoy his loot,you are sying this because there wasnt blood shed,you think if what happened in rwanda had happened you will be justifying this, imagine any leader coming out in rwanda saying his actions caused the slaughter of hutus and tutsis because he wanted to be remembered positively in the anals of their history
the point is not abacha's accomplishment,but him having the millitary support of afrc and the machinery at that point

meexteriox:
The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moment of comfort and convenience, but where he stands
at times of challenge and controversy. _{Martin Luther King Jr}
This is where IBB missed it.

you are right,but lets fig it out here,who do you think would have eventually suffered if he did allow abiola to rule?
definitely not babangida as he would be enjoying his loot with his family.

not abiola as well as he will make sure him and his family are insulated from any of the going ons
the rich and priviledged will be chilling in their mansions abroad.

who is left,the average nigerians, less than 100 or so died in hope 93 riots,but thousands or potentially millions could have died,i was young then but i still remember the palpable fear permeating the entire country then.
trust me,martin luther king wouldnt stand a chance in a nigerian situation,talk less of using his quote and juxtaposing it to the nigerian situation

let us look at the facts,
1.we know from several accounts including humphrey nwosu,colonel umar(rtd)e.t.c they all universally agreed that some members of the a.f.r.c were bent on resisting abiola being sworn in even at the meeting.
2.abacha not babangida was more in controll of the armed forces and more members of the a.f.r.c at that time, reason being that they all toed the abacha line of more riches and more power if they were allowed a go,also potential to be promoted in a new military government disposition.
3.even if we dont believe or are sceptical of bothe 1 and 2,the visual evidence manifests itself by abacha s palace coup where power was snatched from shonekan, shows that anarchy would have reigned and we would have had a free for all

RichyBlacK:
D.ick Cheney is a fool! He wants an attack to happen so he'll open his dirty mouth to shout "I told you so, torture would have prevented this!". Bloody neocon!

i agree,in addittion he needs these military contracts to keep on manufacturing weapons seeing as the gravy train has stopped now

its a welcome development,at least now that no nation has a monopoly of technology be it millitary or civillian,issues will increasingly be solved by democratic means and consensus,personally im fed up of all the scare mongering the western world keeps on at,as for the totally weak argument that "these countries are unstable"
are the western world stable?

@post
even though i have expressed reservations based on what i have heard about the guy as well as others have,if womanising and drinking is the main negative vices against the guy,then i really dont see that as a disqualification,mitterand the late french pm including others were known womanisers,in fact at his death his wife and mistress with both their children stood side by side. europeans generally have a liberal view of these things especially if it doesnt interfere with the individual's job.and that hasnt affected their countries yet,and im sure boris yeltsin is an example as well amongst others

[quote author=Xavier. link=topic=229329.msg3430488#msg3430488 date=1233851716]Coup or no coup, the point is no single individual has the right to annul the mandate of a whole nation. it's simply absurb[/quote]would a coup(that later happened anyway)where the likes of abacha,david mark and co snatched power been a better alternative at that time?
the only reason we are all against babangida is simply because of his moral standing and all he has done in the past,dont judge him by his moral standing, but in the context of a millitary head of state in an unstable country making a decision considering national security, in other words "overall good"look at the larger picture not just a compartment of the whole story

Lagosboy:
@Poster it is very true.

NL is a true representation of Nigeria and exhibits the reasons why Nigeria is and might not move foward. What i find worrying is the way alliances are quickly formed based on either religous affliaiton or tribal affliation. In this trend members of this alliance would always oppose you no matter the thread you are in.

I wish there could be a NL conference one day to put a face to the faceless which is majority of us.

i totally agree with you on that,i have been attacked by some as well,even as recently as yesterday, we cant do anything to change it other than one standing his/her ground even in the face of verbal and cyber intimidation

while we may be quick to abuse the police officers,i hope we all realise that you cannot do this anywhere else in the world and go away scot free without being prosecuted even in zimbabwe or singapore,these police officers are poverty ridden same as an average nigerian yet they are putting their lives on the line to make these same nigerians safe,rather than this highlighting police corruption,i think it is an indictment on us nigerians and crass indiscipline, when  military men brutalised uzoma okere,we all condemned it,same as other police brutality,well for me i personally think the woman should be ashamed of herself and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law as there is no excuse for using a car to virtually run a uniformed police officer down,especially a female one, she could be pregnant or havingany health issues at that time

meexteriox:
To say i'm surprised at your comment is a fatal lie.

What points has he made that is comprehensible? A group of egg heads that were fortunate to
wear a uniform provided by tax payers money now have an overriding view over millions of ''fellow''
Nigerians? What hostility is the fool talking about, that could warrant the cancellation of an election
described as ''free and fair'' by the whole world?

He stole Nigeria blind in his 8 years inglorious rule, ran the country to the ground, scampered to a
temporary safety at his blood filled villa in Minna, now he thinks, he is a voice on Nigeria affairs.

I blame the media who deem it fit to put this misfit on set, _{or did MO collect money?}
IBB, bury your head in shame, you are not worth being mentioned. You are a mistake in Nigeria political history.

the pertinent point he has made is that at that time,there were disgruntled fifth columnists in the army(which we now know by subsequent accounts of what transpired)who were totally opposed to abiola being the president,either due to the fact that they wanted their turn,ethnicity or the fact that abiola'a antecedents up to that point hadnt been that great.

by participants including humphrew nwosu's account,some millitary personell in the a.f.r.c incuding david mark playing a prominent role and abacha were purpoted to have swore that abiola will be a president over their dead body, meaning they were ready to go to any lenghts to make it possible,if you recall, these guys were virtually in controll of the airforce,army,navy hence the whole machinery and planning a sucessful coup was just a matter of agreement within eavch other,you honestly reckon babangida stood a chance against them?

an evidence to show you that point might actually be tenable is what happened to shonekan,was he not pressured to give up governance by abacha?
was that not essentially a palace albeit bloodless coup?
now imagine what they would have done to abiola and babangida,
also look at all the governors that came on board at the first term of obasanjo,you realise that virtually all of them were ex military men?same as senators and house of reps, you think that was a mere co-incidence?

like i said before,i totally agree that he erred in not declaring the results but these reasons he has given are very important and tenable and his actions might be the reason nigeria is at least not another rwanda by now,and i totally agree with you as well that he stole nigeria blind,just like his predecessors and people that came after him including virtually all the participants both civillian and military in the whole 1993 saga,

he is not a voice for nigeria,or mandating nigerians to do anything,the man is just stating exerps of his own accounts of what happened finally,irrespective of his moral standing,the hard cold fact is that even right now,there is still a possibility of a millitary coup as we have seen in guinea,talk less of the time the millitary were still in contorll and a "bloody civillian"as we were called then was trying to take over the juiciest pie when abacha and co has not had their turn

while i, like most nigerians  have castigated ibb and co for the annullment of the election,i think he has made very good points,as coups are essentially the handy work of disgruntled military personell,if there was that much hostility and resistance to abiola being president(i guess due to his antecedents and baggage he would have carried over)then there is a good chance that the likes of david mark and co could and probably would have simply taken over through another coup

read it online today as well,something needs to be done about these problems or if the government intends to somehow insulate themselves then these sort of thing will continue and young men will become more brazen,shows the rich and eminent are not safe

a mutually better and easier and much more sensible alternative is getting an engagement ring he can afford,and if there is genuine love will be appreciated much better than diamonds, its all in the thoughs and even the bible backs this up for xtians

morpheus24:
Strength is in numbers.

not when the numbers are dis united or under an un in spiring leadership

cre8tivity:
when your country and people are being sucked to the bone by parasites, i'm not sure if there is a specific way to express how you feel.
i'm sorry, but if you can't take my style of expression, please kindly log on to st michael's cathedral forum site for politics and save the world discussion.
you're still one of my favorites.

touche,ouch!! lol oh well you have a point

at least atiku has been warned thank GOD for him,lets see if he takes to it

with the reputation these people are forming of themselves,maybe they should lead the revolution to rid nigeria of corruption at least they have a critical ingredient which is being fearless in the face of opposition and fighting for their rights

frizy where are you,
@post
the best i can do right now is make a general comment,a youth led people focused political party sounds really good in theory, but you have to appreciate the sheer logistics, including tribalism and ethnic distrust which has been a part of nigerians both old and young,also it is imperative that you have a vibrant, visionary,morally upright and with good oratorial skills  who will inspire and be a catalyst for change as leader, because honestly, that is what it ll take to rid the nigerian youth of the cynisim in borne by years of dissappointments,not from the old politicians this time but the student groups,nans,student unions the likes of bankole e.t.c

just my personal opinion.

hmmmn,assasination again first it was ribadu then el rufai then keyamo,fani kayode e.t.c e.t.c seems this is the newest style on the block to get sympathy when things dont seem to be going your way