₦airaland Forum

OLAADEGBU:
How about the Holy Spirit's interpretation, using scripture to interpret scriptures?

Holy Spirit teaches to the Watchtower {John 14:26} so they will teach me! Matthew 28:20
But since you people learn directly from the Holy Spirit and you won't like to learn from the Watchtower i can only observe what your Holy Spirit is teaching you guys!

PoliteActivist:
My friend JW is full of flawed, sinful, selfish people just like any other organization. Except that it's also a cult. See below

Have you heard what natural Jews said about Jesus?
Well if you do i'm sure you will never like to hear anything about Jesus again. So forget about whatever outsiders tell you about God's organization, if you have any questions in your mind just ask me, i am one of Jehovah's Witnesses!

OLAADEGBU:
What is your own reading of the story, don't you study the Bible independently?

NO! I rely solely on Watchtower's interpretation!

PoliteActivist:
That's exactly what makes them great. They had faith in someone that had apparently failed, and were ready to DIE for Him. Even St. Paul was helping those involved in the martyrdom of one of them by stonning

I never said people with faith aren't great but there has always been such people it's you who might not know them perhaps because you're not in their gathering!
Imagine a Jew who lived in Israel during the time of Jesus but never knew him one on one and never had any business with his disciples it's exactly what you think that such a person will think, he/she will think:
people like Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah (Shadrach Meshach and Abednego) can't be in his own generation whereas the disciples of Jesus had the same kind of faith.
So we too have such faith today but if you're not in our midst how will you know?

PoliteActivist:
Friend you should really ask yourself, are you a follower Christ or are you a follower of JW

One can't be a "Christian" without the gathering of other faithful believers rather it's "CHRISTIANS" so it's the gathering of Holy Ones that assured us that we (JWs) are with the chosen brothers of Jesus Christ!

PoliteActivist:
But everybody knew that too, how come they didn't follow him? How come He was deserted??

It takes faith to stick to what we know even when others aren't seeing reasons with it {Hebrews 11:1} faith is not a possession of all kinds of people! 2Thessalonians 3:2

You need to think intelligently before you can grasp what happened that day!

The Jews often give their wives certificate of divorce in other to marry another woman (younger and none Israelites) Malachi 2:13-16

So when those women realized that their problem is not about divorce per say but that the man wants another or younger woman they will plead ahead that the man could take another woman instead of sending them away.

That's how it's connected to polygamy.
Ordinarily if Moses has insisted that it's only when their wives die that they can marry another, trust those stiff-necked people their women will be dying like fouls after all what does it cost a man to kill his wife? Matthew 19:8

AntiChristian:
Where did Jesus discourage "Polygamy" Specifically?

I can see that you're always troubled with my comments but your Islamic background won't allow you accept the truth.
Jesus discouraged polygamy by selecting no polygamist in his choice of Apostles, even his disciples were shocked to the extent that they say "going by what you're saying, it's not advisable to marry at all" Matthew 19:10

Do you think such thoughts can come from a polygamist who already has many wives?

AntiChristian:
Thank you for proving Jesus told a lie in Matthew 5:17.
Sorry they are not their brothers but enemies!
A prophet like Moses. Moses was a Polygamous man while you Jehovah witness call Jesus a monogamist Angel Michael.
YES! When he emphasized that Moses spoke about him! Where did Moses spoke about Angel Michael- Jesus?

When you want to joke you know i won't start that with you so since i've established what Jesus stands for it's left for you either to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Saviour or stick to your Islam with Muhammad.
No wahala!

Broveens42:
I didn't ask for sermons with non existent chapters(Luke 43)
I said state where polygamy was mentioned a crime in your new testament

As long as Jesus and his disciples discouraged it it has been written in our hearts {Jeremiah 31:33} so if you can't discern what happened we do!

PoliteActivist:
It is one thing to die for an established doctrine
Again, who would be willing to die for a failed person who was subjected to the most humiliating of deaths and not even able to save himself?

We are still doing so today!
The first century disciples knew what the scriptures said about how Jesus will die so his manner of death is part of the strongest evidence they had to believe in him! Isaiah 53:7

AntiChristian:
Why quote Paul to counter Matthew where Jesus categorically said he never come to abolish the law of Moses( Matt 5:17) Did Jesus abolish the law of Moses? If yes, then Mat 5:17 is a lie!

Well the law taught them many things that Jesus abolished if you must know.
For instance it's written in their laws that they must fight to protect Jerusalem but Jesus taught them never to defend Jerusalem.
The law says they can divorce their wives if they're no longer pleased with her but Jesus said that's no longer acceptable.
The law say they must love their friends and hate their enemies but Jesus said they must love their enemies.
The law says they must stone sinners to death but Jesus says they mustn't do so if they themselves are sinners.
So my friend, the Jews knew very well that Jesus has come to change so many things they know before his coming!

AntiChristian:
Jesus was not a Prophet according to Christians. He is Angel Michael to you right? Is Gabriel a Prophet too? Maybe the verse is for Muhammad. Cos Arabs are the brothers of the Israelites....

A messenger of God is a prophet, the only difference between Jesus and all other prophets is because he's a perfect man who will lead mankind to salvation (Messiah)
Muhammad is not their brothers in any way, their brothers are the twelve tribes of Israel.
Even the descendants of Esau they never view as their brothers talkless those of Ishmael that's far far away from them!

AntiChristian:
Which Prophet? Did Jesus call himself a Prophet?

YES! When he emphasized that Moses spoke about him!

Broveens42:
State where it was mentioned a crime in your new testament

Jesus Christ talked about life Paradise none of all the prophets ever assured anyone of Paradise like Jesus did {Luke 43:23} so if you don't know why the Jews hated him so much now you're learning because he made it clear to them that polygamy (which starts from getting a rival for your spouse) is evil!

AntiChristian:
They showed they were the way, the truth and life!

No! They all kept telling their people that the Messiah who is the way, truth and life is coming, that's why the Israelites were in great expectations of this Messiah! John 4:25

PoliteActivist:
Do you even know the types of horrible deaths they accepted because of Christ? How many people you know would be willing to DIE for a "failed" person subjected to the most humiliating of deaths?
Please don't compare later Christians to them.

Well Jehovah's Witnesses are still facing the same kind of torture and death till today.
So if you don't know the true Christians just say you don't know us because Jesus said:

“Then people will hand you over to tribulation and will kill you, and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name" Matthew 24:9

No be ṣeré ṣeré o, we are still experiencing the same persecution till now! Matthew 10:22-25

AntiChristian:
I can't quote any verse for you cos it's not a small verse! I will explain my previous text with two Prophets namely Noah and Moses!
Everyone who followed Moses in truth from Pharaoh was saved. Here Moses was the way cos whoever does not follow him in truth was not saved! Same as Noah. Whoever did not follow Noah's call to the ark perished.
Now, to Jesus's comment as the way, the truth and life... When a rich man met Jesus and asked him what he needs to do to have eternal life. Jesus didn't tell him accept me as your Lord and saviour! Jesus didn't tell him accept that i am God Yahweh. Jesus said obey the commandments of Moses. And later Jesus said the man should sell all he has, give them to the poor and follow him. The end signifies followership just like people followed Noah and Moses!
This is the way. How many Christians follow this way?

The man surely followed everything in those laws that's why he could sense that Jesus is the promised Messiah but their envious religious leaders who taught this people failed to continue putting faith in what they have taught the people when the fulfilment came {Matthew 23:2-3} so instead of them to abandon their hopeless titles and embrace the teachings of Christ according to what Moses stated in the law {Deuteronomy 18:19} they were looking for excuses to condemn the Messiah.

So Christians have no business with the Mosaic laws all what we need is to concentrate on Jesus' thoughts, words and actions, by so doing we will know how to explain what all the prophets taught from Genesis to Malachi, and what will serve as the evidence that we have done the right thing?
We will go throughout the earth to gather people and remove politics and military services from their hearts so that a global family of peace loving worshipers may suffice due to what Jesus taught us {Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3} that's the one and only evidence that we have proved to be fully competent and completely equipped students of the Prince of Peace! Act 1:8 compare to Isaiah 9:6

AntiChristian:
Where did the Messiah say he came to alter the laws of Moses? Have you forgotten Matthew 5:17?

He came to FULFILL what the scriptures said about him and once it has been fulfilled the Israelites no longer needed the Mosaic laws but the Christ: 1Corinthians 11:4

I will raise up for them from the midst of their brothers a prophet like you, and I will put my words in his mouth, and he will speak to them all that I command him. Indeed, I will require an account from the man who will not listen to my words that he will speak in my name. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Why would God raised up another prophet again if the laws is all that they needed for their salvation? Act 3:22

PoliteActivist:
Do you people have any iota if spirituality in you at all? Or you look at everything carnally? A Christian is a follower of Christ and there are no purer followers of Christ than those His early disciples!

False!

They never mastered what Christ laid down until Jesus appointed Paul to spread Christianity to other nations.
For your information Peter the one Jesus asked to lead the group {Matthew 16:18-19 compare to John 21:15-17} failed to keep Jesus' teachings due to his Judaism background.
Well it was this same Paul that God used to correct Peter's blunder otherwise Christianity would have failed when Peter treated none Jews as if they're not his Christian brothers! Galatians 2:11-14

So we can't say they were purest until Jesus singlehandedly appoint Paul to assist them in the work of building the BODY OF CHRIST {Ephesians 4:11-16} which was later known in Antioch as "CHRISTIANS" Act 11:26

Broveens42:
Contextually, the Mathew book you cited more appropriately discourages homosexuality than polygamy
#English language

Jesus is about Paradise not laws by which we live so polygamy is a crime in God's Kingdom!

AntiChristian:
This is not the Problem. The Problem is why does Jehovah give laws like the above if truly polygamy is forbidden according to most Christians if not all i have met?

The laws can't make them perfect but to guide the Israelites until the Messiah (Christ) comes, unlike Moses who presented the laws and failed to live perfectly by it.
Jesus laid down perfect principles and lived by it.
So Jehovah gave the Israelites the laws to guide them until the coming of the perfect master (Christ)

sonmvayina:
I have told you before but you never learn.
There is only one creator, just the nomenclature that is different...Mumu

Keep searching for more mumu or those that will agree with you, as for me i already have a global family of peace loving worshipers who are not mumu from my own point of view!

Broveens42:
All these questions you are asking me doesn't in any away challenge my submission sadly.

Well it's a big challenge for anyone who wants to follow the world's most wonderful counselor of all times Jesus of Nazareth! {Isaiah 9:6} because our righteousness must beat that of all other school of thought! Matthew 5:20

PoliteActivist:
You are confusing God (Spirit) with a book compiled by flawed, sinful men, many with an agenda.
Like I told you b4, the earliest Christians who were the purest and most fanatic never had NT nor all these Paul's letters you people have been quoting!

There was nothing like Christians until Jesus' disciples were noticed in the ancient city of Antioch {Act 11:26} And Paul whom Jesus gave the authority to serve as the Apostle of the nations surely worked with them! Act 9:15

So without Paul there's nothing like Christianity in other nations meaning there's no way you can know anything about Jesus of Nazareth!

PoliteActivist:
My Bible or the one you doctored with "And the word was a god" ?

Then keep your idea of the god that's contradicting itself Sir!

MindHacker9009:
51:30
continually covered up and rewritten
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their ever-changing doctrines each time
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presenting them as new light the one
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thing the watchtower society cannot
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tolerate in the organization is critical
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thinking
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that's why they forbid their followers
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to read any material which might expose
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their deceptions really shocked me to my
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core was this and every other Jehovah's
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Witness listening to this is that we
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were so convinced that the leadership
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the governing body would never tell one
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lie they would always speak the truth no
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matter what the truth was that is a
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fabrication it is a lie they have lied
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to us they have deceived us and we have
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the documented evidence and because
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we've spoken about it we were silenced
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or threatened to be silenced and that's
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what will happen to any Jehovah's
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Witness listening to this program and he
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knows it in his heart he knows it in his
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heart I saw on the body that most of our
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time was spent discussing the formation
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of new rulings all designed to keep the
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witnesses in and to keep bad people out
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to act as that kind of offense and again
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and again the decisions had absolutely
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no basis in the Bible the witness who
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breaks these executive Commandments is
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subject to dispell Oh shipping the
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watchtowers word for excommunication job
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as witnesses practice removing those who
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refuse to conform the right principles
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from among themselves the Bible refers
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to this and supports this practice as
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preventing leaven or false thinking or
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teaching from entering into the
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congregation thereby maintaining its
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purity or its cleanliness I went to a
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Christian Church with my husband and
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they dispell assured me for that they
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believed that when you when you become
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when you leave the organization you go
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to the devil anyway but if you ever join
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a church this is the ultimate sin they
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believe that it's committing spiritual
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fornication with the devil in my job
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assignment at the Brooklyn Bethel
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headquarters I would often
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disfellowshipping x' which came in from
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all the various congregations in the
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united states and they literally
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amounted to hundreds that would come in
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every week it just shows the the
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magnitude of the number of people that
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are disfellowship by the organization
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and of course careful records are kept
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on all this including all the the
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intimate details of what the individual
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did what kind of offense it was mainly
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there are sex offenses but there are
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other offenses too like smoking perhaps
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celebrating the holidays things like
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that that people also got this
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fellowship for if one actually becomes a
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descender to the point of becoming
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apostate then we follow the Bible
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Council and we never invite him into our
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house or was they agreeing to him if a
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person resigns they are treated exactly
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the same as a person who is
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disfellowshipped when my husband and I
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resigned by sending in a letter of
54:34
disassociation we were not merely
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dropped from membership we were actually
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shunned as being evil even today if a
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Jehovah's Witness is caught associating
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with us they are subject to being
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discover ship themselves there is no
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honorable way out of this religion
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because of the way that they had treated
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my family i disassociated myself from
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the watchtower society never dreaming
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that my children would refuse to have
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anything to do with me in fact I have a
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little two-year-old grandson that I've
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never even seen my two children and my
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five grandchildren are forbidden to see
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me their grandmother because of the
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watchtower what kind of organization
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going under the heading of Christian
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would disallow the children and
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grandchildren to see their mother and
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grandmother every person will recognize
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the watchtowers practice of shunning as
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a cold unloving evil thing the lives of
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the disfellowshipped are filled with the
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chill and loneliness the never-ending
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sadness of separation from family
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members
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to find something to believe in to trust
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him it's very hard since I believe that
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they were the only channel to God I
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couldn't bring myself to come to any
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other Church to search for God in any
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other way
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normally Jehovah's Witnesses are taught
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that when they leave the organization
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there's nowhere to go but my wife and I
56:04
through Bible reading found out that we
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could go to Christ and that's what we
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have done after I'd ran across some
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literature that exposed their false
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prophecies and they're deceitful ways of
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covering them up I then was able to
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realize that they weren't God's
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organization and I was able to search
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for God and I found Jesus Christ and he
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is my personal Savior and he's changed
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my life just a hundred percent we just
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prayed and gave our heart to Jesus and
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it seemed like such it was such a simple
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answer but that was that was what we've
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been searching for all our life and it
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wasn't an organization it was Jesus it
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was a personal relationship with Jesus
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that we didn't have before
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we knew at that very moment that our
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needs were written in the Lamb's Book of
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Life it was it was a free gift eternal
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life just given to us and all those
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works that we did all the thousands of
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hours that we that we put in for an
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organization all the hard striving was
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finished and just grace just grace saved
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us through faith just a simple act of
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obedience in prayer and asking the Lord
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to take over just filled us with joy and
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peace and joy that we never had never
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had as a witness
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barger and i spent many years working
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for the watchtower society but it was
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not till we left the organization that
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we discovered the real meaning of God's
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love our experience says to us that
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there's another ministry out there for
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Christians a ministry that will come
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knocking on their door the Jehovah's
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Witness who comes to your door is a
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person who's lost his way if you're
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prepared you can reach out and show him
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what true Christian Fellowship is it's
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been a long journey for us but we don't
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think it's been wasted the remainder of
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our years are going to be all the more
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precious to us because now we have a
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personal relationship with Jesus Christ
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we finally came to realize that eternal
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life is a free gift God's grace was all
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we needed just grace

Is this how your god is providing Peace?

Broveens42:
Question: is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife ON ANY GROUND?
Answer:
A.Have you not heard the one who created them made them male and female
( the biblical concept of female made from man)
B.For that reason of creation ( since female wasn't created independently) ; a man will leave... and stick to his wife and they shall be one.(back to creation)
The writer used B to validate A and A to discourage divorce. And has nothing to do with monogamy and polygamy
#English language

Will you approve if your wife choose to marry another man in addition to you?
Will you approve if your daddy wants to marry a woman in addition to your mother?
Will you approve if your brother in-law decides to marry another woman in addition to your sister?
Will you approve if your son in-law choose to marry another woman in addition to your daughter?
Jesus said:

"All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them. This, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean" Matthew 7:12

It's not about English Sir but what Jesus want in his kingdom in Paradise!

RisenJoe:
Sir, your argument is full of loophole here and there, have a nice day

Thanks for reading!

RisenJoe:
Sir, pls give me a passage in the new testament that explicitly prohibits polygamy?
I know you will quote the book of Timothy or Matthew but let's wait and see.

I am not your Master, Lord and King but Jesus of Nazareth should be!

When talking about marriage he referred to the standard God set in the garden of Eden as the perfect setting for marriage:

“Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? Matthew 19:4-5

It is the TWO that can become one flesh as they both agree on terms and conditions of staying together. Whatever makes any of the party think of bringing another person into the marriage is what Jesus called EVIL:

“All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them. This, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean" Matthew 7:12

According to Jesus Christ of Nazareth if you will not tolerate rivalry then don't get a rival for the woman you married and promised to stay with her till death do the parting!

“‘You must not take a woman in addition to her sister as a rival wife and have sexual relations with her while her sister is alive" Leviticus 18:18

Your wife is your Christian sister so marrying another Christian sister while she's still alive is what Sir? Matthew 7:12

God bless you and may you have PEACE!

AntiChristian:
If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights.Exodus 21:10

Well no imperfect man fulfilled the highlighted that's why all polygamous homes recorded in the Bible had serious issues.
Abraham was advised by his barren wife Sarah to sleep with her slave he didn't purposely got married to another woman until Sarah's death. Isaac married only Rebecca and Jacob married Leah and Rachel due to the trick of Laban.
So none of the patriarchs purposely got a second wife!

RisenJoe:
So? I don't understand why you had to quote me to write all these.

Are you saying that the mosaic law which supports polygamy is for the Israelites alone so we shouldn't marry more than one wife because we are not Israelites?

If that is so, what about our forefathers that married as many wives as they wanted as long as they were able to cater for them all, does the coming of Christianity makes that part of our tradition a sin as well?

Polygamy before Christ is not a sin because the Son of God has not come to declare God's judgment regarding everlasting life.
But after Jesus' mission anyone who stubbornly turn against Jesus' order is on his/her own! John 3:16-18

RisenJoe:
It's a shame that most of those quoting the op didn't counter his fact backed argument with a superior fact but rather resort to insults and name calling.

In the Ten Commandments God didn't tell us the number of women to marry, so I don't know why someone will say that polygamy is a sin.

The mistake most Bible readers do make is thinking the Mosaic laws has anything to do with them.
Before God gave Moses those laws He (God) told the Israelites:

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:5-6

So the laws were given (not to any other people) but only the Israelites!

But afterwards God told Moses:

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Here God is telling the same people that this laws will only guide them until the coming of another prophet who will teach them something of higher value than what Moses gave them. Apostle Peter confirmed that Jesus of Nazareth is the prophet God was talking about! Act 3:22
By the time Jesus arrived in Israel the Mosaic laws were about to be kept aside as the mirror through which they're able to see their sinful nature and an evidence that they need a healer. But the Israelites thought the law is everything they needed that's why Jesus told them:

"You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one (to come and teach you how to see everlasting life), you will die in your sins.” John 8:24

So Christians have nothing to do with the laws anymore because we have something greater than the law which is Jesus Christ of Nazareth {Romans 10:4} whoever wants to see eternal life only need to study Jesus' thoughts, words and actions. Once you're able to master this you will have everlasting life! John 3:16; 17:3

But all those keeping the laws yet failed to accept Jesus as their personal Lord and saviour will PERISH. Jesus told the man who kept all those laws right from his youth that he still needs to become one of Jesus' disciples {Luke 18:18-23} otherwise all his righteousness are filth before the true God! Isaiah 64:6

That's why Apostle John could say:

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18


So let everyone know today that failure to accept Jesus as Lord and obey all what he commanded the true God has no business with you because the Mosaic laws has fulfilled it's purpose namely to lead the Israelites to the Christ and nothing more! Galatians 3:23-25


God bless you and may you have PEACE!

BornofGod108:
1Tim 2:9-10 and 1Pet 3:1-3 condemns jewelry and indecent dressing.Female trouser is indecent because TROUSERS MAKES WOMEN NAKED!

THE SHAPE OF HER PRIVATE PARTS ARE SEEN, THE SIZE OF HER BUTTOCKS, LAPS AND WAIST ARE SEEN! That is immorality!
But what actually made you to wear trouser as a woman?
in our society trousers is known as a masculine dress, and Deut :22:5 says any woman that put on masculine dress(Trouser) is an abomination in sight of God! even if you are a pastor

Mr Rika's opinion doesn't count here so if you are his disciple know that his rules can only be upon you not all readers of the Bible.
By the time Moses wrote those words men put on skirts (not trousers) so it's civilization that brought in trousers and it's for both men and women!