₦airaland Forum

Janosky:
Yes !
Is Colossians 1:15 and Romans 11:35-36, in your Bible?
Did Jesus come through his Father?
Yes!
Your Bible says Jesus is a Creature.
Through Jesus, the Father created ALL other things in the universe.
Hebrews 1:2, 1Corinthians 8:6, John 1:3 & Colossians 1:16 proven that.
Are you, Sparrow, ready to receive SENSE?.

Please my brother it's not only these dishonest people that are following the thread so be careful of the words you use. Remember they don't have any logo as nobody can address them by any sect, they just want everyone to address them as Christians when we all know that there are over 41,000 different religions having contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines claiming denominations of the same religion but you already have a logo (JW) and anything you say or your manner of approach will be noted as JW's way of doing things! 1Peter 3:15

Janosky:
Why do you type GIBBERISH?
You are definitely not interested in the Bible truth.
Matthew28:18, Jesus told Sagenaija,
"ALL authority have been given to me in heaven and on earth".
The man is still stuck on Revelation 22:16 as if Jesus is equal to God his Father.
Revelation 3:12 & Colossians 1:15 no dey him Bible

When the Pharisees, Sadducees, Scribes and other Jewish Rabbis were speaking against one another using the scriptures the people were confused as to which group has God's backing, but when Jesus arrived and started teaching what can't be faulted or refuted everyone noticed that this man's teaching is unique! Matthew 7:28-29

Sajenaija just wanted to console himself that there is no group worth taking seriously after all of them have flaws, but right now he is having a big problem because i presented the one and only group practicing Christianity in the right sense, he couldn't present any all he's after is to bring out the flaws in any group claiming the one and only Christian group.

So he's really battling vehemently with his mind over what he can say to disapprove the JW Organization. What a pity all his arguments are futile. I usually ignore his type because it's pointless debating with someone who doesn't want to know God's approved organization, our search is for the lost sheep of the house of Israel (people who are elderly searching for the group practicing what Jesus taught) not those who don't want to subject themselves to any form of tenets.
I only wanted to dig it with him to any length since he's insinuating that i often run away from him. Now i'm with him let's see how he disapproves what JEHOVAH has approved!

sagenaija:
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MaxinDHouse, Again why not try and be straightforward.
Nobody is saying that only one person spoke throughout the book of Revelation.
We are not talking about different chapters of the book of Revelation. We are looking at what is stated in the space of FIVE VERSES!
Five verses within the same chapter. And it has been so DIFFICULT for you to explain or answer even if it means using your own translation. How come?
I asked questions about SPECIFIC verses, and they are single verses and it has taken us this lo-o-o-ong to get a 'No answer' from you. Why is that so?
How do 'some people think this', 'some people think that' answer a question?
Jesus said "Let your 'yes' be 'yes' and your 'no' be 'no'. Anything else comes from the evil one".
Why look for some other issue to deflect attention from answering a question directly? Is it not better to say 'I don't know' than move others around in a circle?
I asked:
When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?
You responded with:
I then showed you where Jesus CLEARLY said IN THE SAME PORTION:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:16 NIV
And I asked you this:
Does it agree with your bolder above?
And your response is now about:
And
Is that verse “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches......" wrong? Or mistranslated?
Do you remember when I asked you a while back:
MaxinDHouse, who is speaking in Isaiah 48:12-13?
You were quick to answer:
When I went on to ask
MaxinDHouse, Thank you. Now, who is speaking here:
When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.
Revelation 1:17‭-‬18 NIV
Your response was:
Then when I went further with:
MaxinDHouse, do you see the "I am the First, I am also the Last" in Isaiah 48 and the "I am the First and the Last" in Revelation 1?
You said that the the First and the Last in Isaiah 48 is Jehovah and the one in Revelation is Jesus.
Now, are there two different "the First and the Last" persons ‐ one being Jehovah and the other Jesus Christ?
Your response began to change:
This is where deeper understanding is required. When Jehovah said he is the beginning and the end, and Jesus also said the same thing it simply means both persons knows the beginning of mankind's history and rebellion in the garden of Eden, and certainly they will both see the end of badness!
Remember they've been together from the time of creation until now! Proverbs 8:22; John 1:1
That doesn't implies the voice belongs to the same person!
What was a simple question now requires a 'deeper understanding'. The answer changed from 'It is......' to 'That doesn't implies the voice belongs to the same person!'.
I guess you were confused because the person who said "I am the first and the last.."
in Revelation 1 also added "I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever!"
So, it is unmistakable who is speaking. But your DOGMA already has a position on things and you can't immediately reconcile the two. So you had to 'switch gear'.
We are seeing that again here!
A passage with statements that should be clear enough but you now have to hide under the cover of translations and translators.
I didn't ask about translators. I only asked:
When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?
Can you have a go at that question MaxinDHouse?

Your problem is the way you're so much overwhelmed with texts that you can only read but can't talk about it's practical application!
Remember that @ John 1:1-3 we read:


In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. NWT

It is evident that John was talking about two separate persons: God and the Word who was with God in the beginning. So if the Word say i am the beginning and the end do you think he is saying he was alone without God?
Well it simply means he knows the Genesis of badness and he will be glad to know the end after all he has played his part perfectly {John 19:30} so the rest lies in the hands of the one who has the power to execute all things without anyone's permission: GOD
The Bible clearly tells us that Jesus always takes instructions from someone greater than him so even if he has played his part he must wait until God gives him the order to act! Psalms 110:1

Now regarding the verse you're worried about let me quote nine verses in the same chapter and let's see how many people were talking there:


Well I, John, was the one hearing and seeing these things. When I heard and saw them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing me these things. 9 But he tells me: “Be careful! Do not do that! I am only a fellow slave of you and of your brothers the prophets and of those observing the words of this scroll. Worship God.” 10 He also tells me: “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, for the appointed time is near. 11 Let the one who is unrighteous continue in unrighteousness, and let the filthy one continue in his filth; but let the righteous one continue in righteousness, and let the holy one continue in holiness. 12 “‘Look! I am coming quickly, and the reward I give is with me, to repay each one according to his work. 13 I am the Alʹpha and the O·meʹga, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. 14 Happy are those who wash their robes, so that they may have authority to go to the trees of life and that they may gain entrance into the city through its gates. 15 Outside are the dogs and those who practice spiritism and those who are sexually immoral and the murderers and the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices lying.’ 16 “‘I, Jesus, sent my angel to bear witness to you about these things for the congregations. I am the root and the offspring of David and the bright morning star.’” 17 And the spirit and the bride keep on saying, “Come!” and let anyone hearing say, “Come!” and let anyone thirsting come, let anyone who wishes takes life's water free! Revelations 22:8-17

Note the speakers in highlighted:
The first in verse 8 says "i, John"
The second in verse 9-11 is the angel sent to deliver the message to John.
The third says "i am the Alpha and Omega" we believe that is Jehovah the Almighty! Revelations 1:8
The fourth says "i Jesus"
The fifth is God's Active Force working with the bride (144,000) so they are speaking what the God's active force is moving them to say!

So how come you picked a verse and say it's Jesus who is speaking whereas Jesus introduced himself when he wanted to speak?

Workch:
The onus is on you because you claim god exist unless you don’t claim god exist. The moment you try to talk about god, you have to prove he exist else no one believes you
That’s the positive claim.
Atheist do not claim anything.

If I tell you the Flying Spaghetti Monster exist, the onus is on me to prove it not the other person im telling it to. But because it’s a lie and I don’t have proof, I might want to shift the burden of proof just like what you are doing now

The onus is on whoever is overwhelmed with what people around him say, because people will always talk whether it's true or false those taking it seriously and worried over what others say are the ones having problems.
If you tell me there is a Flying Spaghetti Monster all i need to say is "good luck" but when i can see something exciting in you and i asked you how you got it then whatever you tell me about how you got it will now make me feel like missing out because i can see the result in you.

So the claim that God exists isn't about showing you something for you to believe rather it's you who will see the difference and begin asking to know what makes something that's impossible possible with the believer that's when we can now start discussing about GOD the invisible cause of what you're seeing!

Workch:
I want to know if you believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created Jehovah.

Do you see why the onus is on you now?
You're worried about what i know when i don't even care about what you know!

Workch:
Do you believe that the Flying Spaghetti Monster created Jehovah?

Have you ever heard me speak about Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Well i don't so you can't see me talk about it since i don't believe it exists but when you're always talking about what you say doesn't exist then the onus is on you not those who say it exists. Do you now see where your problem is?

Nothingserious:
All I see is pride and false presumptions about oneself.

Well that's what you see so you're entitled to what you can see!

Nothingserious:
I don’t want to start arguments with you on who is a better christian than the other.
Anyone who believes in Jesus Christ as the saviour of the world and the way to God the father is a Christian. Any other grey areas that are not fundamental may not matter to God.
Please keep that in mind.

Arguments doesn't always make people evil, Paul was an argumentator always arguing against Christ's group until Jesus called him because Paul wasn't hypocritical with his arguments. So if you argue for righteousness it's good.

Nothingserious:
I don’t even know why you think you are on the narrow way while others are on the broad way.
What is the narrow way? What is the broad way?

Even if i should expatiate your preconceived thought that all those claiming Christians are Christians will not let you see the light but i will answer your questions because of others who truly wants to know the truth.

What is the narrow way?
Before the coming of John the baptist and Jesus whoever is in Israel worshiping in the temple with a pure heart is accepted but after John's arrival only those going to get baptized by John are in the narrow path to life {Matthew 11:12} that's why Jesus despite being the Christ must set the standard to help others {Matthew 3:13-15} then after Jesus began his ministry John's work ends so all those who wants to worship God acceptably must join Jesus' group {John 1:35-37 compare to John 3:25-30} So whoever remains in the former Jewish religion or John's baptism or any other religion is already on the broad road leading to destruction everyone must join Jesus' group! Luke 18:22

That's the setting in the first century so that all worshipers of God may have the same line of thought regarding beliefs and tenets of pure worship! John 4:24 compare to John 17:20-23

What is the broad way?
The broad way is all religions that are teaching people what they thought is good either in the name of God or Jesus but aren't ready to conform to the same line of thought with their fellow believers. They only want to hear that people can be worshipers of God in any religion as long as they're calling God's name or Jesus' name {Matthew 7:21-23} they don't want to subject themselves to any form of tenet restraining them from pleasing themselves. Satan is their leader {John 8:44} he just wants to present himself as a child of God who knows his own mind but never ready to subject himself to the same rules as other children of God! Job 1:6

Today there are many sects claiming denominations of one religion yet each of them have different ideas and opinions so a person can switch from one sect to another as if he's traveling on the expressway with many lanes yet claiming worshipers of the same God. That's what BROAD WAY means! Matthew 7:13-14

May you have PEACE!

sagenaija:
See this:
“I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Revelation 22:16 NIV
Does it agree with your bolder above?

Most translators failed when they got to the book of Revelation.
WHY? Because the persons talking in the book are many:
Jehovah, Jesus, John, the 24 elders, 144,000, the angel (sent to reveal these things to John), Babylon the great (the harlot), the merchants and so on.
That's why each person always mention his name or is addressed by name so that the reader can know who is speaking. But with the preconceived thought that Jehovah and Jesus are both part of the trinity or the same person most translators failed to address these two separate persons according to their statements.
In some cases JEHOVAH speaks while in some cases it's Jesus but since most readers believe in Trinity they can't grasp that the two persons are talking separately.
So instead of concluding that only Jesus is speaking in that book why not first consider each verse and find out who is speaking and to who?

Abdulgaffar22:
Have you expunged all the 13 Epistles of Paul from the Bible you're using in your true Christianity ?

Reading a book and judging the writer with your own beliefs doesn't make you wise. A wise inquisitor will never base his/her judgment on what he heard from one person.
In my tribe (Yorùbá) an adage says:
"A gbọ́ ẹjọ́ ẹnìkan d'ájọ́ àgbà òṣìkà ni"
Loosely translated
"a judge who only listens to one side is the chief of evil people"

Instead of judging Paul's letter by your preconceived thought why not think of the result of the letters?
The purpose of a global family of faith is to make people of all races come together to resolve all their racial disparities and worship God like one family. Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3
So if your religion failed to do what Isaiah and Micah said in those verses then know that you have not found the true religion because all the religionists on this planet are claiming they worship the Almighty but it's by the results of their faith that one can judge if they truly know God not by the things you're reading in their books. You may be reading a book but what proves that you truly understands what you read is the ability to present or point to the group of people practicing what you read not people claiming they also read the book but doing something totally different from what the book says.

Everyone today knows that the terrorists killing people throughout the world don't know God at all and 70% of the world's terrorist groups are claiming Muslims, do you think a person is wrong if he says all Muslims are terrorists? YES but how can we help the person to understand what is happening?
Is it not by advising him to study the Qur'an so that he can now know the group of people practicing what the book teaches?
So if you now based your judgment on what people claiming Christians say (not on what the book teaches) then what difference does it make with your Islam?

Nothingserious:
“...real intellectuals...” is a put off for intellectualism in this context.

It was just a simple statement I made to say your doctrines aren’t much different from that of other Christians to cause all the whole arguments we see every now and then.

So what point are you trying to make now?
That you are an intellectual? That you are a Christian and others are pagans?

What are you seeing through? You would rather I had started criticizing your beliefs and dogmas instead of seeing and doing “jump and pass”?

Pls what is your point?

The Topic here is:
"Fifteen basic beliefs you don't know about Jehovah's Witnesses"
After seeing the basic beliefs of a group and you can't tell if they are the true Christians or not then it simply means you are deceiving yourself.
When Jesus said the road to everlasting life is narrow while the road to destruction is broad {Matthew 7:13-14} this simply means those on the road to everlasting life have the same line of thought regarding beliefs {John 17:20-23} while those on the road to destruction have contradicting beliefs! Luke 11:23
So can you pick any of the sects claiming denominations in Christendom and specifically list their basic beliefs the same way?
The answer is NO!
Because before you mention at least four out of their basic beliefs you will notice that the doctrines of this churches are contradicting. Then what are the basic tenets that defines a true Christian group?
That's why i said real intellectuals can easily see through you that you're deceiving yourself.

Nothingserious:
This is okay.
The few grey areas that cause heated debates between you and other Christians really do not seem to be too fundamental as to deny anyone a place in the kingdom of God. My personal opinion though

I don't know why you people can't see how easy it is for real intellectuals to read through you. After reading about the resolve of a global family you want to draw a similarity between them and pagans with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines. How do you quantify a Christian group in the first place?

sagenaija:
MaxinDHouse, Don't get ahead of yourself here.
You can see that rather than explain issues from the Bible texts I am presenting, you are running away to your preconceived position to answer. You're unable, or refusing, to give straightforward answers to simple questions.

When Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
Revelation 22: ‬13
What do you believe he means?

You are the one running from pillar to post here. Indiscriminate quoting of scriptures won't help you if you're not ready to resolve issues one after the other.
If Jesus is the word that was with God in the beginning it is clear that he couldn't have been the same person with himself nah!
JEHOVAH knows the beginning of our suffering and surely knows what will end the suffering of mankind from the beginning of the issue {Genesis 3:15} because He is willing to end it and He has the power to do so, that's the meaning of ALPHA and OMEGA, Jesus is not the one speaking there rather it's the One who sent Jesus to come and represent Him! Isaiah 44:6; 48:12; Revelations 1:8

For the light of something to shine the way Jesus spoke it must be a collective effort of many people with like minds, each person in the world will try to shine in his own way no matter the religion they belong but Jesus' word is about shining globally which means he was talking about a group not individuals:

“You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its strength, how will its saltiness be restored? It is no longer usable for anything except to be thrown outside to be trampled on by men. “You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house. Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens!

Jesus was talking to a GROUP not individual!

Whenever i see a Muslim arguing about Christianity i only pity him because the first thing you need to know is that Jesus never called his followers "CHRISTIANS" it was in Antioch that observers noticed a group practicing what Jesus taught and they began calling them "CHRISTIANS" as they were doing like Jesus the man known as CHRIST among the Jews.
So if you want to talk about Christianity then you need to know the group practicing what Jesus taught not those claiming Christians but doing something else!
I was once a Muslim but after discovering the true Christians and the practical application of Jesus' teachings i accepted true Christianity not Christendom!

NaijaSatanlst:
I am not making any claims here. I am only rejecting the claims which you've made without evidence.

Nobody is forcing claims down your throat so don't play the victim when you're actually the bully. Humans are free agents and they can believe anything as long as they're not coming to snatch your bread from you.
So being overwhelmed simply because of some claims makes you a semi human because anyone is entitled to his/her opinion!

kingxsamz:
Here we go again.

The onus is on whoever wants to carry along fellow intelligent creatures in the same line of thought with the absence of the most intelligent Personality (GOD)
So if anyone feels like talking let them talk but carrying others along is impossible if you want to discard the existence of God!

sagenaija:
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MaxinDHouse, now you are being deceitful here.
The highlighted portion in your post was not referring to Adam, was it?
Is there any reference to Adam in the John 1 portion I have been highlighting or in the Colossians cross-referrenced?

You should understand that your consistent refusal to look at the passage and see it for what it says is a sign of dishonesty and a DISREGARD for Jehovah.

Secondly, you are deliberately not considering the context.

This is the issue:
1. In the first place was the Word. The Word was with God the Father, and the Word was himself God.
2. Through the Word all things were created.

Your NW translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".

The only true and simple explanation of this is that the pre-exitent one (the first and the last - Rev. 22:13) is the uncaused cause of ALL creation.
Is the 'first and the last' a created being?
Do you remember from our previous discuss that the 'first and the last' is also in Isaiah 48?
And you know his identity in Revelation 22?
Would you want to separate the two?

The word "FIRST" come to mind when we are talking about the beginning of something, Paul identified Jesus as the FIRST BORN of all creation just as Adam was the FIRST BORN of all humans. Paul even liken Jesus to Adam because both of them are the beginning of something, Jesus the beginning of God's work as an intelligent being in the spirit realms, Adam is the beginning of God's work as an intelligent being in the physical realms.

So there's nothing that can equate the created with the Almighty God who is the uncaused CAUSE, Jesus has a beginning but JEHOVAH has no beginning!

@ Colossians 1:15-17 we read:

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. Also, he is before all other things, and by means of him all other things were made to exist!

Paul is talking about someone here, important question:
Is this person also part of God's creation or excluded?

Paul's letter to the Corinthians about the same person says:

For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone. 1Corinthians 15:27-28

Evidently someone empowered this person to do so much and Paul identified that One as the Almighty God not Jesus who was given the authority which he must surrender again back to the One who gave him!

Your problem is complicated because you are heaping blame and accusations against a faculty yet you know nothing about the faculty.
Who are the Christians?
That's what you supposed to sought out first before talking about where they go wrong or evidence!

sagenaija:
Can you explain what you mean by the HIGHLIGHTED?
Does the 'image' of God include omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence for example?

Btw, I hope you got what I pointed out that the "other" inserted in colossians in your NW translation is not in John 1:3

Your NW translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
"All things" means ALL THINGS doesn't it?
"Not even one thing" has been added for EMPHASIS by the Holy Spirit's inspiration to leave NO ONE in doubt as to what is being communicated here.
Not even Archangel Michael (who is included in 'All things') came into existence without Jesus.
In other words, the emphasis on Jesus being the uncaused cause of all that have been created is unmistakable here: don't you think?

All humans today came through Adam and not even one single human exist without Adam that's why we have all inherited sin through Adam. Romans 5:12
Does that exclude Adam from God's creation?

Here we are talking about the first spirit creature (first born) who God empowered with knowledge and wisdom to do all the works of creation just as Adam was the one who named all creatures {Genesis 2:19} God created Eve through Adam yet that doesn't exclude Adam from the creation himself!
So because the first spirit creature also took part in the creation work doesn't mean he is not part of the creation, that's why Paul called him the FIRST BORN! Colossians 1:15

sonmvayina:
Where does Jesus come in ?
Somehow I believe the idea in your comment. God has placed both life and death, good and evil, light and darkness in front of us. It is now left for us to choose.
But in his infinite mercy and goodness he has given us the Torah to guide our choices in other for us to have an interesting and fulfilling life here on earth...
But ultimately at the end, the spirit returns to God and the body back to earth. Ecclesiastes 12:7.
I choose life so I am keeping the Torah just like he advised. You don't really need to be in a group or Cult to do so...

If you don't need to be in a group or cult then what business do i have talking to you about rules or Torah?

Xantel:
Matthew 28:19, even 2cor 13: 14 and more

If I may ask what is the meaning of holy Trinity?


The bolded, I don't know and can you please show me in the bible?
The word 'Trinity' and its concept can't be found in the bible

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost Matthew 28:19

I thought you said "God the father, God the son and God the holy spirit" but it seems you rephrased it!

Humans are free to do all the things that come to our minds only setting standards for right and wrong we must leave completely for God to handle. Genesis 2:17
As long as we stay clear away from that each person is free to do whatever he/she likes provided you're not going to hurt yourself!

sagenaija:
What do see of John 1: 3 - "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence"?

When God created Adam and Eve only these two were here and it's through these two that all of us came into existence today there were no bicycles, cars, boats, aeroplane, helicopters, phones, televisions, computers and so many things we have today.
All these things came into existence through humans, no animal has ever made any advancement in technology, WHY? Because only human was created in the image of the Maker so they can't make anything.
So God created one creature in His image and this creature is responsible for all other creatures.
That's the import of what you're quoting!

MightySparrow:
No excuse, perform your own.
B million over 134 years! The people you criticise has more than less than 40 years, almost globally.
Continue to bask in delusion.

It's no excuse my friend, truth doesn't have two versions but one.
If they want to perform miracles let them go and convince the atheists who are always demanding for it.
We know there is no real miracles now!

My name is Maximus and i'm one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, would you like me to discuss with you on the topic?

sagenaija:
1. Janosky fails to understand that the humanity of Christ and his pre-exitent nature need to be put into consideration in interpretation. (Reread this. A word is enough for the 'wise').

Then Jesus said to them, “Why is it said that the Messiah is the son of David? David himself declares in the Book of Psalms: “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” ’ David calls him ‘Lord.’ How then can he be his son?”
Luke 20:41‭-‬44 NIV

2. You like running from pillar to post because you want to convince yourself against the truth that your preconceived position is the right one. So, for example, if you are shown that Jesus was called God with the statement "My Lord and my God" you will look for how to make the 'God' in that statement mean something else. You would have said it was 'Lord' but because 'Lord' is already there you will look for another word just to make it conform to your position. Your references to Lexicon, Hebrew, etc are all to obscure things. We can see through you.

In Genesis 26:26 we have:
Then Abimelech went to him from Gerar, and Ahuzzath one of his friends, and Phichol the chief captain of his army.
The 'one of' in that verse must mean that Ahuzzath was his 'senior' friend or 'first' friend by your logic. Interesting!

Or this:
Genesis 25:23
And the Lord said unto her, Two nations are in thy womb, and two manner of people shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.
So, 'the one people' here should be interpreted to mean 'the first' or 'the Senior', according to your logic.
You should begin to see through your facade.

3. So, when in Revelation 5 the four living creatures and the 24 elders fell before the Lamb it was not worship?
And all that is said and done elsewhere in that chapter to the Lamb is not worship?
Only a show of respect?

Are you saying that you can go through the book of Revelation and still go away with the thinking that the Lamb is not worshipped?

4. Again, your translation of John 1: 3 says "All things came into existence through him, (i.e. Jesus) and apart from him NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence".
But you are not explaining that verse!
Instead you keep running elsewhere to attempt to convince yourself that the position you hold is it!
Your translation says NOT EVEN ONE THING came into existence apart from Jesus!
Are you denying your translation?
You need to deal with that!

It's not everyone that will be calm when they're seeing dishonesty coupled with hypocrisy that's why God's Holy Spirit dispenses different gifts, some to lead (Apostles) to teach (Teachers) still others to refute falsehood boldly like the prophets of old! Ephesians 4:11
Janosky is my brother and he knows the truth about our God but i can bear witness that this brother isn't that patient enough to handle falsehood with calmness.
For instance he has sent me private messages several times due to the manner i often handle discussions with many of you, so i know how my brother feels when you're trying to accuse God's people!

Jesus referred to himself as "the only begotten son of God" {John 3:16} in our own interpretation of that phrase Jesus is the one and only creature directly created by Jehovah God that's why it's appropriate to call him the firstborn of all creation {Colossians 1:15} so after God has made this first creature He trained him and equipped him on how to create all other things!

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him. Colossians 1:15-16

Jehovah produced me as the beginning of his way, The earliest of his achievements of long ago. Proverbs 8:22

Then I was beside him as a master worker. I was the one he was especially fond of day by day; I rejoiced before him all the time Proverbs 8:30

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.This one was in the beginning with God. John 1:1-2

No argument can change the fact that all these verses correlates and that Jesus is one of God's creatures, that's why he could admonish his friends to relate with God as OUR FATHER and OUR GOD! Matthew 6:9 compare to John 20:17

May you have PEACE!

MightySparrow:
Jesus said his true believers would do greater miracles than he did, your organisation is merely qouting scriptures like His enemies did

I guess the. true God is not with your GB;

You goofed big time my friend!

Do you think all the people ever claiming Christians put together has performed one tenth of miracles Jesus did? John 21:25

Well the GB said they have performed more than Jesus, in what sense?
Jesus only preached within the boarders of Israel but the GB has reached all countries with their teaching.
Jesus couldn't remove weapons and racism from the hearts of his disciples but the GB has erased both from the hearts of millions throughout the world.
Jesus never gathered up to 1,000 disciples but the GB has gathered over 8million disciples all preaching and teaching globally.
Jesus only recorded three and a half years of preaching and teaching but the GB has recorded over 100 years of zealous preaching throughout the earth from 1919-2019
Jesus preached in one language but the GB and their group in over 2000 languages throughout the earth!

So stop deceiving yourself Jesus never meant anybody will perform miraculous greater than the one God himself made a mighty God in the midst of men! Isaiah 9:6

Janosky:
Your "Papa" fleece you dey Store una "treasures" inside him secret offshore tax havens, yet your name no dey any of the account.
He climbs pulpit and tells Sparrow to store treasure in heaven,who is fooling who?

They accepted them as men of their God not because they have anything to show as proof but the success of these people in accumulating material possessions and their affluence in the society. You accepted the GB of Jehovah's Witnesses because you can see the organization of peace loving worshipers fully prepared to submit themselves willingly to the GB.
So what else do you think Oyedepo need to continue as their man of God if not the material possessions he is accumulating in his name? TB Joshua is dead now, there is trouble over the assets he left behind. The disciples are fighting his family because what they were worshiping is Mammon (God of riches) and the man's wife wants to keep it to herself and the family.
Their idols are silver and gold, The work of human hands. A mouth they have, but they cannot speak; Eyes, but they cannot see; Ears they have, but they cannot hear; A nose, but they cannot smell;Hands they have, but they cannot feel; Feet, but they cannot walk; They make no sound with their throat. The people who make them will become just like them, As will all those who trust in them. Psalms 115:4-8
The only earthly asset of the GB is the organization of peace loving worshipers that's why you and i are preaching zealously and industriously teaching in all our neighbourhood to increase this asset, that's what the GB, you, i and every other member of JWs cherish. Mark 10:29; Micah 4:1-3
So while their own Gods have failed them Satan is spitefully instigating them against us seeing that our own asset which is the organization remain standing tall above all! Matthew 5:14-16
That's why they are ashamed of declaring their religion but trying to hide under the deluded countless sects having contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines all in the name of denominations of one religion. Revelations 6:16
If not the other day i caught this one talking about Oyedepo has he ever declared that he is a member of winners?
My brother let's rejoice that we have the truth, he will soon come and tell you that everything is delusion as his own religion can't stand the test of faith!

MightySparrow:

Jesus lived as a man in the midst of critics who were battle prepared to quote the scriptures against him. So if we were there back then in the first century the only evidence to prove that the true God is with Jesus despite all the criticism is the miraculous works Jesus was performing not his arguments because he will quote the scriptures while his enemies will also quote the scriptures, that's why Nicodemus a member of the group antagonizing Jesus said:

“Rabbi, we know that you have come from God as a teacher, for no one can perform these signs that you perform unless God is with him.” John 3:2

Many people also saw the same thing but never believe Jesus is the Messiah (Christ) WHY? Because while Jesus was preaching and teaching there are many religious leaders saying he is not from God! Matthew 12:24; John 9:24

Jesus have nothing again as credentials that he is the promised Messiah so there was lots and lots of contention back then. Peter asked him:

“Look! We have left all things and followed you; what, then, will there be for us?” Matthew 19:27

Peter and the others has been expelled from the synagogues for putting faith in Jesus so their families and friends now see them as outcasts in the society. What was Jesus' reply?

“Truly I say to you, no one has left house or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for my sake and for the sake of the good news who will not get 100 times more now in this period of time—HOUSES, BROTHERS, SISTERS, MOTHERS, CHILDREN, and FIELDS, with PERSECUTION—and in the coming system of things, everlasting life. Mark 10:29-30

So the evidence that Peter and his friends are on the road to everlasting life is organization of people who treats one another like BROTHERS, SISTERS, MOTHERS, CHILDREN that will always be there.
Today Jehovah's Witnesses said Jesus returned in 1914~STORY
They said he began dealing with only their group~STORY
They said he was correcting all their blunders that's why they keep making amendments in their former beliefs~STORY
They said he has chosen their leaders GB as his representatives~STORY
But what has kept millions together in this group?
Well remember Jesus' promise to Peter {Mark 10:29-30} so if anyone now picks up the Bible and start quoting scriptures saying this group is wrong the only evidence right thinking persons will accept is a presentation of a better performing group that's treating one another just as Jesus promised Peter.
Jesus was with Peter that very day so Peter needs no other evidence but after Jesus became a life giving SPIRIT the only evidence to prove that he is present is the promised ORGANIZATION of peace loving worshipers, anything else is tantamount to fruitless arguments! 1Timothy 6:4; Titus 3:9

May you have PEACE!

sagenaija:
I agree with you that you'll most likely stick to your ground on these issues. But others are reading us.

When Jesus walked the earth 99.9% of people who heard him teach thought he was mad or stupid only few stick to him, their reason back then was that only those following Jesus can have everlasting life! John 6:68
So i'm not interested in what followers will say or think, real faith is not what of all kinds of people cherish {2Thessalonians 3:2} but those that cherish it must relate like one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers! Isaiah 2:2-4; Mark 10:28-30; John 13:34-35; 17:20-23

Just as addiction to a thing can be difficult to break, attachment to cults are equally tough ones to break loose from.

Jesus already told us that when the bond within members of his group become strong and unbreakable despite all the hatred people show against them many people will conclude that they are cultists {Matthew 10:22-25} so it's OK!

sagenaija:
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You are missing my point. Maybe deliberately so.

The focus should be on God and not on any single group. Jesus said "I will build my church". So, it is his church. And, the church is first and foremost a spiritual entity.

The ultimate issue is 'What think ye of Christ?'. Who is he to the individual or to a group? A mere out-of-this-world super angel OR the creator, saviour and sustainer of all?

That belief on Christ is the foundational basis for everything else that follows. Once it is missing or misconstrued everything else, every purported practical works, will crumble before him when he comes to judge ALL.

If you ask me a million times i'll say the same but since you claim to believe in Jesus and i also claim to believe in Jesus when we can't agree then it's better you go and worship with those sharing the same line of thought with you while i also go and worship with those with whom i share the same line of thought.

Then wait for Jesus to come and settle the matter!