₦airaland Forum

My oh my!
Trust Jehovah's Witnesses with answers fully back with the scriptures!
I wanted to respond but my brothers have done exactly what i'm coming to do, nothing more to say!

Yippeedaniel:
[color=#770077][/color] how can the court convict when the org refuse to report to the police. The org discourage its subject from reporting to the police. Also two witness rules shit.

This is exactly what i'm saying, Janosky show you the reports that everyone can read in our newspaper here in Nigeria, but you are quoting what exJWs are saying forgetting that exJWs are now deadly enemies of the org.
So do you think it's wise to take the words of your ex girlfriend or wife to convict you?
Why not help catch one just one JW pedophile then broadcast it throughout the earth?
Why must you keep parading yourself as an inquisitor when all what you have as evidence is mere testimonies of our enemies?

TenQ:
This wasn't a parable o Mr maximus, it was a response to a question by [the Sadducees who do not believe in a resurrection of the dead.

You're getting it wrong here my friend!
Sadducees believe in reincarnation and they got the idea after their stay in Babylon for decades.
Resurrection is the only hope for our dead love ones, they're dead and nothing survives them, they don't have souls or spirits that survives their bodies, it's the active force from God that keeps our breath and at death that power actuating our body system returns to God! Psalms 104:29; 146:4; Ecclesiastes 12:7
So the only hope of seeing the dead again is a RESURRECTION the Sadducees don't believe this rather they believe in REINCARNATION.

That is why they are different from the Pharisees because even though the Pharisees join forces with the Sadducees to kill Jesus and keep persecuting Jesus' disciples they believe in the resurrection of the dead:

Now Paul, knowing that the one part was made up of Sadducees but the other of Pharisees, cried out in the Sanʹhe·drin: “Men, brothers, I am a Pharisee, a son of Pharisees. Over the hope of the resurrection of the dead I am being judged.” Because he said this, a dissension arose between the Pharisees and the Sadducees, and the assembly was split.  For the Sadducees say that there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees accept them all. Act 23:6-8

I am one of JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES we strongly believe in the resurrection of the dead it's you guys that are saying twisted things thinking you have something to do with God's word when in actual fact you are far away from the knowledge of God.

If i should ask you questions using the scriptures now the same way i did back then before i converted from Islam to JW you will end up saying "i don't know" because you don't have the accurate knowledge of God's word unlike the JWs who answered all my questions satisfactorily using the Bible!

If you're saying the dead are alive somewhere please can you present a scripture to support that?
Remember Abel was murdered, Enoch was taken, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, David, Elijah all died and buried.
So when you say Jesus' statement regarding Abraham, Isaac and Jacob should be taken literally and Jesus himself said no man has gone to heaven {John 3:13} then where are they if not dead in their graves awaiting resurrection? John 5:28-29; Act 24:15

Let me answer first then you can also present your own answer and compare to mine.

Jesus said Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are living to God because their names has been written in God's memory book for a remembrance of them so during the resurrection Abraham Isaac and Jacob surely will be resurrected! Revelations 20:15
But all those having nothing to do with God will be forgotten in their graves {Psalms 9:17} so they will remain dead forever, that's what the Bible calls "eternal punishment" or "lake of fire" the punishment we're all experiencing now is death due to Adamic sin but it's temporary since we have the hope of resurrection but as for evildoers their own punishment will be permanent!

Now explain what Jesus meant when he said Abraham Isaac and Jacob are living before God yet he said no man has gone to heaven.

TenQ:
You forget that God is the one who decides who is a son or not amongst his creations.

I find it amazing that God chained his children (with eternal chains) under darkness while reserving them for a greater punishment
Jude 1:6
6 And the angels who did not stay within their own domain but abandoned their proper dwelling— these He has kept in eternal chains under darkness, bound for judgment on that great day.

I guess this is a mere parable as God does not have the liver to dump these evil spirits in the lake of fire!

My guy it's symbolic terms!
The same angels the Bible said were kept in chains and thrown into darkness are moving freely about the earth {Job 1:6-7} and working with magicians, sorcerers, wizards, witches and so on. They're the spirits behind false religions binding people with spells and possessing people.
Have you read where Jesus is casting out demons from people? It's these same angels that he was casting out so how are they in chains or darkness if it's not symbolic terms that you need to understand?

If you're interested in knowing the meaning of this symbolic terms we will help you, one of my brothers is also here with you so this is not the time for blind arguments but to know the sacred secrets!

bobestman:
How can a Spiritually blind man learning from a Spiritually blind Organization understand Spiritual things. Have told you many things, take them or thrash them.

Just as you're also a blind man arguing blindly to me so there's nothing you know!

Acehart:
You for try to answer those questions. Anyway, you try. Give it up for Mr. Maximum.

All your questions are summed up in one so i go straight to the answer, God has two things in mind from the beginning LIFE or DEATH so each person must choose one {Deuteronomy 30:19} it's as simple as ABC!

haekymbahd:
when your colleague was interpreting the Quran out of context didn't you see. If you can't correct your colleague then there is no point explaining anything if you guys won't accept the explanation giving to you why should we accept yours. It's Tit for Tat and that was not directed at you..

Quran was not inspired by your god

I love the way you concluded:
Qur'an was not inspired by my God!
Meanwhile i don't have any colleague except members of Jehovah's Witnesses.
Thanks for the understanding!

anu3:
Friend, please I don't argue, and you're already getting me wrong. But you know, Jesus said the way to Life is Narrow, and ONLY FEW will find it. So, I'm not here to win arguments, or try to prove that I'm right and others are wrong. I hardly learn from people because people are more group/church-minded. The thing is there is no group going to heaven as a whole (even a true group). It's individual: one by one. Even in Jesus group, there was a Judas. He could not be saved just by being part of a perfect group like that of Jesus himself. Alas, today we have more of Judases as group/church founders (going after money and honour) than Jesus type (focusing on heavenly riches): what to expect from their members. We should be focusing more on our private lives, in Obedience to Jesus according to the new testament.
All right... Thanks for talking to me.

Well my interest is to present Jesus' group to you {Matthew 12:46-50} individually they're not popular so hardly do people know them facially except those living in their neighbourhood {Matthew 13:55} but as a group they are shaking the world. Matthew 5:13-16
They're no part of any nation so they don't support during times of war! John 17:14
They love their neighbours as themselves {Mark 12:31} but they love their members just as Jesus loves them so people always say they have love among themselves! John 13:34-35
They have trained all their members the be zealous preachers and industrious teachers of God's word! Matthew 28:19-20; Act 1:8
But despite being humble and gentle in every human society the world hate and vilify them! John 15:19
I was a Muslim when i found them but today i am proudly one of them Jehovah's Witnesses!

May you have PEACE!

Acehart:
You knew the right answer but you chose the beat around the jungle. Who judges the heart? If Jesus was referring to an unknown law, as you have said, could that law have prescribed judicial sentences for all crimes? Those who found guilty, where would they serve their time?

Death is the wages for all kinds of sin! Romans 6:23

TenQ:
No Sir. I follow the bible and make up mind mind by what it says.
What else with the SYMBOL Torment mean according to this parable.
Meaning that it is useless tormenting a dead Cat.
Jesus knowing that Lazarus, Abraham and the rich man were DEAD used the word Torment.
Please what else can it mean.
Is the torment the state of Unconsciousness?
Since everybody will die and in this case Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich man, ALL having the same state of UNCONSCIOUSNESS, why should I be afraid?
If there is no torment, there is not a single difference between Abraham, Lazarus and the Rich man: mind you, Jesus didn't even refer to resurrection (as the rich mans brothers were stive alive then) Can one punish the already dead?
It seems that God will be magnanimous to satan to by granting him a fast instant speedy death! Your problem is thinking that death is cessation of life whereas, death is just a disconnection/separation of man as God desinged him to be
Physical death= Disconnection of a man's Body from the Union of his Soul and Spirit which returns to God
Mk 12:26
26 But concerning the dead rising, have you not read about the burning bush in the Book of Moses, how God told him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!
Spiritual Death: Disconnection of a Spirit from the Spirit of God
Second Death: Eternal Disconnection of the totality of a being from God

Jesus used that parable to tell how badly things will turn out for the first century self-righteous Jewish leaders, Abraham and Moses never lived the same time, meanwhile Abraham is part of the dead that will be resurrected, when Jesus said they are all living to Him (God) this simply means God keeps their names in His memory book for resurrection not that the dead are conscious somewhere! Revelations 20:15

If you're still interested in knowing the meaning of those symbolic terms i'm still very much around!

A real pastor is only known in the midst of God's people because it's their works in the congregation that makes them pastors they don't go about with the titles!

anu3:
Friend, except if it's not a Popular group, I must have been there or met them at least. God knows what's true, but I guess true churches here are small and unknown. And it's not about doing All that or Perfection, but loving God and having the attitude of Christ in general. I do hope I find one when I relocate again, if God wants.

I'm interested in the highlighted!

Please what do think about this statement Jesus made:

You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its strength, how will its saltiness be restored? It is no longer usable for anything except to be thrown outside to be trampled on by men. “You are the light of the world. A city cannot be hid when located on a mountain. People light a lamp and set it, not under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it shines on all those in the house. Likewise, let your light shine before men, so that they may see your fine works and give glory to your Father who is in the heavens! Matthew 5:13-16

How can a group of imperfect humans be the light that the whole world can see shining brightly if it's not a popular group? Isaiah 2:2

TenQ:
If all God can do to satan for corrupting the whole world is just to kill him (annihilate him), you wonder if there is appropriate justice served for the multitude of wailing caused by him.

Satan is one of God's spirit sons, Adam and Eve connived with him to rebel against God so the three rebels will die but then God wants Adam's descendants to learn from Adam's evil deed that's why God didn't destroy Satan instantly. Moreover Satan asserted that humans will not worship God willingly unless God bribe them, he also said humans can rule over themselves successfully without God's intervention that's why God decided to give Satan the chance to prove all what he said!
But today nobody can deny the fact that all what Satan said is FALSE.

God is not interested in tormenting his children (including Satan) but since they don't want Him to guide them they will continue to hurt themselves and others so the best thing is to send them back to non-existence and that's exactly what God had in mind! Romans 6:23

anu3:
Are you sure you are not expecting me to find something perfect? No, no one is perfect untill Jesus comes back. 1 John 3:2
Anyway, no. The ones I found are online. The kind of leader I respect is one of Paul type of life after Jesus. You can check Zac Poonen, a similar person like him in Nigeria is bro Gbile Akanni. There will be several others here but not well-known.
Those men are not perfect but Christlike. A quick test is check their attitude to Money and Popularity. And they hardly take titles cos like Jesus, they are mere servants to the people of God.
If you find one of such please link me if possible. I've stopped going to church for over 6 years now to avoid Self-deception and common church-deception.
However, like I heard bro Zac said in a sermon, let me say it the way I understand:
"If you find any of our linked churches (branches), And you realize the leaders there are after money, honour of men, etc. Please, get out that church, and look for another church (even if it's not linked to our church) that has a CHRISTLIKE leader leading People to God's kingdom not Earthly things."

From experience, not many great pastors common around can say that. Once you're a member, you must join them anywhere you go, whether the church is dead or alive: and joining another church would seem like you're no longer in Christ. Cos to them, they're the ONLY true church: now, what a deception. Imagine Paul telling Peter such about the local churches they planted.

First of all let me commend your courage and boldness to stand against all odds regarding what the churches of Christendom are doing.
But then don't you think one is denying Jesus when you say you can't find a group practicing what he taught in your neighbourhood?
Remember Jesus never promised us that we will have perfect members rather it's as a group that imperfect humans will exhibit the FRUIT of God's Holy Spirit.
For instance the nine qualities of the spirit are LOVE JOY PEACE PATIENCE GOODNESS GENTLENESS FAITH MILDNESS and SELF-CONTROL {Galatians 5:22-23} no imperfect human can have these qualities complete, but within the gathering where God's Holy Spirit is WORKING all these qualities will reflect in the way the imperfect humans worship God. Matthew 5:13-16

Well i know a group practicing everything just as Jesus taught, members are imperfect just like anyone else but they have gathered millions and teaching themselves how to live in accordance with scriptural principles, they have eradicated racism and politics from the hearts of all their members so that none of them thinks of raising weapons against anyone neither do they enroll for military services! Isaiah 2:2-4; Micah 4:1-3

In their midst material possessions means nothing so they don't pay nor receive tithes, they don't even include prosperity in their prayers all what they pray for is their needs! Matthew 6:11

I was a Muslim before i met them!

Acehart:
You should know that an adulterer can only be sentenced to death if the other party consented. So, you are wrong here.

Sure an adulterer can only be sentenced if an accomplice is found because one can't commit adultery alone nah. But in this case Jesus isn't talking about what is obvious to humans rather Jesus is talking about the heart as in what people thinks before taking action!
Luke 6:45

Acehart:
It would be right to say that there wasn’t a death sentence for slander before and after Jesus’ words. Even John the Baptist wasn’t charged to any court based on his “slander”. So what jurisprudence was Jesus referring to- man’s or God’s?

Jesus is not referring to any known law rather he as the one who will judge both the living and the dead is teaching us how to avoid wrong thoughts which often leads to sin!

anu3:
First, Jesus and His apostles preached Cheerful Giving, NOT the old covenant Tithing nor any type of compulsive payments or donations as common today. In other words, Men: Pastors/Group leaders may require compulsive Giving or Tithing, not God.

Jesus:
Matt.5.42 - Give to him who asks you, ...

Paul:
2Cor.9.7 - So let each one GIVE as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

In the new testament Jesus requires 100% of one's life, not just 10% of money. If tithing was required, be sure Jesus, Paul, Peter and others would have commanded it and even repeated it in scriptures over and over as they did about Loving and Fearing God; Repentance; dying to self, taking up one's Cross daily; humbling oneself, etc.

To know the truth, we've got to Humble ourselves; put great pastors and church doctrines on one side, then take the Bible (particularly Matthew through Revelation) and read: asking God grace for revelation. Just like the Berean christians dealt with even the great Paul the apostle. Acts 17:11

Grace...

So have you found a group of people practicing what you're saying?

Acehart:
Before Jesus came, was there a law that sentenced one to death on the basis of calling another a fool?

NO! Jesus is only teaching his listeners how to avoid trouble {Proverbs 17:14} for instance Jesus also said that a man who keeps looking at a woman lustfully is guilty of Adultery meaning he should be stoned to death for doing that. It's not in God's law like that.
Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant and his teachings are the laws that comes along with that New Covenant, so it's either people accept Jesus' teachings which will lead them to everlasting life {John 3:16} or stick to the Old Covenant which doesn't come with the promise of life everlasting.

abdelrahman:
oh Jeremiah was just emotional?
Well play if to say it is Qur'an,will u say this?
Well apart from emotional Jeremiah
If a Prophet is deceived and speaks a word, I the Lord have deceived that Prophet” (Ezekiel 14:9)

Yahweh said this with his own mouth, whether u deny or not,that is your problem

And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel. Ezekiel 14:9

If you're quoting the Bible try to quote the verse completely so that you can gain insight, the Bible is not inspired by your Allah.
If God said i deceived and will destroy it simply means such a prophet is not working for God so God will intervene in order for such false prophet not to continue misleading faithful people who loves honouring God's prophet!

Acehart:
Then I ask you this as one who relies on the Spirit of God: What does Jesus mean in Matthew 5:22?

However, I say to you that everyone who continues wrathful with his brother will be accountable to the court of justice; and whoever addresses his brother with an unspeakable word of contempt will be accountable to the Supreme Court; whereas whoever says, ‘You despicable fool!’ will be liable to the fiery Ge·henʹna.

Jesus is warming the Christians not to become wrathful against their fellow believers because those who practice such a thing will not inherit God's kingdom.
The word mistranslated "HellFire" is "Gehenna" it's a valley behind the wall of Jerusalem, it is used as a symbol of complete destruction so dead animals and condemned criminals are thrown there so that the fire and brimstone there will utterly destroy their bodies. Of course the Jews believe that such ones will not be remembered during the resurrection of the dead.
That's why Joseph Arimathea and Nicodemus asked for Jesus' body because he's not a criminal, but as for those two thieves Gehenna is where their dead bodies will be thrown!

Yippeedaniel:
Jw are the most depressed sect. That's why every WT talks about how depressed and frustrated older ones and poor jw are.

How i wish this is true, i left Islam and ever since i became one of JWs i've become the happiest because i'm 100% certain that i've found Jesus' group!

Yippeedaniel:
there's no peace. False peace, too much hating going on in congratulations around Nigerian.. Oh i Forget it's normal for imperfect human i think

Do you know what Peace means?
Well i was a soldier and i know that there's no way people will not quarrel due to mistakes on our part but JWs have eradicated the idea of supporting one side against another! That's what peace means because there's no other group amicably settling disputes rather people takes sides and the next line of action is to pick up weapons in support of either sides that is what we call "WAR" only JWs can boast that their members will not participate in Wars because they've erased the idea of taking sides during disputes!

Yippeedaniel:
Promise? The failed predictions. Stop waiting because you'll never see it come through in your lifetime. Go and watch annual meetings.

God's promise of a New World is in the Bible, only true believers will continue anticipating when it will come, unbelievers will just discard it as fables, so i know why it matters to them most! Act 1:6

Yippeedaniel:
Why won't you be gentle when you're being controlled and told what to say. Slaves are normally gentle.

I love this!
Yes we are slaves of our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus so we need to be gentle no matter the attitude of people around us! Matthew 10:16

Yippeedaniel:
Feel save when over 1000 kids are abuses in the organization?

What really baffles me is how you people keep talking about this accusation whereas none of you have caught a JW pedophile in your area.
Don't you think something is wrong somewhere?

Yippeedaniel:
No one treats you badly when you're innocent.

So Jesus doesn't know what he was saying that his followers will be mistreated or Jesus wasn't innocent, shey? Matthew 10:22-25; John 15:19; 17:14-16
Stop deceiving yourself!

Yippeedaniel:
clap for yourself.. Australia Branch of Jehovah's Witnesses had records of 1,006 alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse, relating to more than 1,800 victims since 1950

So what is their police doing about it or JWs over there are untouchable?
You hear rumours far away, the group is in your neighbourhood yet there are no records of such here. When we hear of terrorism in countries where Islam is taking seriously we may doubt it but now that it's happening in Nigeria is there still room for doubts?
Why not report a JW pedophile to the police if you catch one? Why must it be what is happening in Australia that you're carrying in your head against your neighbour here in Nigeria? Na wah for you o!

Yippeedaniel:
You think God will be proud of you for writing this long shit. The same God will kill all gross imperfect jw in Armageddon.

Of course unbelievers will be destroyed at Armageddon but all those trusting in Jehovah and humbly moving faithfully with His organization will be save! Zephaniah 2:2-3

May you have PEACE!

Yippeedaniel:
Worst shit that don't happen in churches, got you wondering if God's own org will breed such cross imperfect humans.

The highlighted is what right thinking persons finds so baffling because most individuals who came from different parts of the world to join this global family have their worst sides {1Corinthians 6:9-11} yet the fruitage of God's Holy Spirit is reflecting in their gathering! Galatians 5:22-23

[1] LOVE! Nobody can deny the fact that this imperfect humans have some crazy love for members of their group no matter where you come from! John 13:34-35


[2] JOY! Whatever they have they're always joyful as long as they're able to do the works of their God! Luke 10:17 compare to John 4:34

[3] PEACE! When other religions do have body guards carrying weapons going about with their leaders, there's no such thing in the gathering of JWs because they have PEACE permeating their assembly.

[4] PATIENCE! They are patiently waiting for the promise their God made and everyone can see that no matter what happens JWs are the most patient in every human society.

[5] GOODNESS! When everyone is scared of their neighbours they feel safe in the gathering of JWs, why? Because they know this people preach and teach about God's kingdom not prosperity.


[6] GENTLENESS! During times of agitations or protests everyone knows that JWs aren't there because they're the most gentle in the society.


[7] FAITH! Their faith in the promises of their God is so strong that they keep preaching and teaching in all their neighbourhood.


[8] MILDNESS! People often treat them badly but they will mildly walk away without causing any trouble with whoever insult them for their ministry! 1Peter 3:15


[9] SELF-CONTROL! Satan is using so many means to make people act wildly but everyone knows that JWs have self-control.

So if anyone is now complaining about the imperfection of each individuals forming a group let him know that it's imperfect humans that you'll find everywhere but it's only where God's Holy Spirit is WORKING that you will see imperfect humans exhibiting the qualities of God's Holy Spirit as a group. Therefore there is no law any human society can put up against such a group:


But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: AGAINST SUCH THERE IS NO LAW. Galatians 5:22-23

May you have PEACE!

abdelrahman:
but Jeremiah said Yahweh deceived him?
Is he lying?
On the verse that I explained to u, whether u agree or not,it ain't my concern.

Jeremiah is just an imperfect human like any of us here, back then God keep communicating with his people in general through prophets like Jeremiah {Hebrews 1:1} so what made him had such wrong thought?
Well it's because God asked him to go and warn the Inhabitants of Judah regarding their idolatry and God promised to be with him. Jeremiah was insulted by the people and some even assaulted him physically so Jeremiah thought God deceived him because he felt God should have protected him from such physical abuse {Jeremiah 20:7-9} God told Jeremiah not to get married because most of the children born that time will be killed by sword and many taken as slaves, this made Jeremiah thought he was born at the wrong time! Jeremiah 20:14-18
But Jehovah never deceive Jeremiah, He promised that when the calamity come upon the inhabitants of Judah, true worshipers will be saved while others are dying through the swords of the Babylonians! Jeremiah 39:16-18

May you have PEACE!

Auskyd:
All this doesn't press home any point. You're sharing screenshots about beards? Really?
Which school you graduate from?
Man, you really get problem. I'm sure JW matter dey make your preek stand all the time lmao

His Papa, Mama and all other relatives are JWs but he doesn't want to submit to the tenets that binds JWs together yet he want them to treat him like fellow JWs.
I wonder what he would have done to Jesus if he happens to live in the first century because Jesus' teachings let to break up in many Jewish family {Matthew 10:34-35} most Jews back then prefer to see their family member who became a Christian tormented to death than continue living as a Christian.
That's why the persecution was great back then, but thanks to God that America declared FREEDOM OF SPEECH EXPRESSION and WORSHIP today otherwise this restless miscreant would have been hunting JWs up and down all because they have their own faith that makes them differ from all others! John 15:19; 17:14

Acehart:
If the Lake of fire is never something God had in mind, Jesus should be accused of sensationalism; didn't He say: "whoever says, ‘You fool,’ shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.”

Jesus said so many things in PARABLES {Matthew 13:13, 34-35} and Daniel have hinted us that when the Messiah arrives most people will never grasp his teachings {Daniel 12:10 compare to John 6:61-66}
WHY? The Psalmist answered because he will speak in Parables! Psalms 78:2
So if you're quoting Jesus word for word but don't want to rely on the Spirit of God which is the one that can make the word active in the midst of believers {John 16:12-13} you will just continue to argue among yourselves yet claiming you belong to Jesus! Luke 11:23

It's by their FRUITS {Matthew 7:16-18} that Jesus said not their words {Matthew 7:21-23} so try to figure out the group of people practicing what Jesus taught then whatever they tell you about Jesus' words know that they fully understand that's why the FRUIT of God's Holy Spirit is evident in their gathering, and anything you say against them is futile! Galatians 5:22-23

Truvelisback:
Yes, christians suppose to have material possessions but not every christian had the opportunity. And i do not say that every christian that isn't rich is not a christian as u have insinuated. There are true christians. I only kicked against ur opinion that that the rich won't enter the Kingdom of God, that it is only the poor will enter the kingdom of God.

Can you quote the bolded in any of my comments?

Come on, what i said:
True Christians do not pray for or cherish material things we are contented with our daily NEEDS {Matthew 6:11} not WANTS because NEEDS are just few things (FOOD, CLOTHING and SHELTER) whereas WANTS are unlimited {Psalms 23:1} so we've made our lives so simple {Matthew 6:23} but those who are eyeing material things can't truly serve God! Matthew 6:24 compare to 1Timothy 6:9-10

May you have PEACE!

Hundredfold4lif:
BORN AGAIN CHRISTIAN BELIEVERS IN JESUS CHRIST ARE NOT SUFFERING!

Are you sure of what you just said?
Well please explain what Paul meant in this verses:

Are they ministers of Christ? I (speak as a fool) I am more; in labors more abundant, in stripes above measure, in prisons more frequent, in deaths oft. Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep; In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren; In weariness and painfulness, in watchings often, in hunger and thirst, in fastings often, in cold and unclothedness. 2Corinthians 11:23-27

Paul never experienced any of these before he became a Christian, he lived big in fact orders people around! Act 7:58 compare to Galatians 1:14

The same happened to one Psalmist:

A Psalm of Asaph. Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart. But as for me, my feet were almost gone; my steps had well nigh slipped. For I was envious at the foolish, when I saw the prosperity of the wicked. For there are no bands in their death: but their strength is firm. They are not in trouble as other men; neither are they plagued like other men. Therefore pride compasseth them about as a chain; violence covereth them as a garment. Their eyes stand out with fatness: they have more than heart could wish. They are corrupt, and speak wickedly concerning oppression: they speak loftily. They set their mouth against the heavens, and their tongue walketh through the earth.
Psalms 73:1-9
May you have PEACE!

Truvelisback:
Good day, Fellas. Why do christians suffer after giving their life to Christ? Note: When they had not known Christ then, Their lives use to be rosy. They never experienced any form of difficulty, hardship or life stress. They lived a comfortable life. But immidiately they gave their life to Christ, reverse became the case. Judges, Faculties, can we hear ur comments.

I thought you said Christians supposed to have material possessions insinuatingthe whoever is not materially rich is not Christians:

Truvelisback:
What practical way are u talking abt? I have shown u the scripture. They weren't poor, they were rich. They were rich where rich when Jesus was with them and even after His departure. Jesus, asked the disciples, Do u lack anything? They said No. Anyway, thanks for letting me know that JW members are poor.

Why the sudden change in your opinion?
Are you insinuating that there are no true Christians again?
Or you feel those in the first century differs from today's Christians since they were rich?
Are you now ready to learn?

Once again i am Maximus one of Jehovah's Witnesses, if you're ready to learn i am still very much around.
May you have PEACE!

From Genesis to Malachi the idea of eternal torment is not found in any written document but right from the time Jesus began his earthly ministry he made use of so many symbolic terms just the way Bible said this wonderful counselor will do when he arrives! Psalms 78:2
Jesus is the same person who revealed what is in the Bible book of Revelation (using symbolic terms) {Revelations 1:1} therefore all those taking what Jesus says literally will either misinterpret it or ignore him altogether {John 6:61-66} only those who are interested in knowing will stick to him in order for them to get the understanding of what he said {Matthew 13:10} so whether they understand it immediately or not what matters to them is the righteousness they can perceive in Jesus! John 6:68

Let's take the Parable of Lazarus and the rich man for a case study, Jesus mentioned many things in that parable:

Lazarus the beggar with sours all over his body, rich man who has so much material things, Lazarus is always at the rich man's gate, he desires eating whatever falls from the rich man's table, dogs often comes to lick the wounds in Lazarus's body, then both of them died, Lazarus was taken to Abraham's bosom, rich man in a place of torment, rich man begs Abraham to instruct Lazarus to deep his finger into water and cool his own thirst, Abraham said there is a chasm between them so nobody can cross, rich man begs Abraham to send Lazarus back to his own brothers who are many in number to warn them, Abraham said "they have Moses and the prophets", rich man objects "they may not listen to all those ones but if Lazarus (a dead man) should talk to them they will yield to the warning" , Abraham said "if they don't listen to Moses and the prophets neither will they listen if someone from the dead speak with them"

All these are symbolic terms because by the time Jesus walked the earth Abraham is still a dead man in his grave, God's word says the dead are unconscious {Ecclesiastes 9:5-6} Lazarus (beggar) can't be one of God's children {Psalms 1:23; 37:25} the rich man never did anything evil neither was Lazarus doing anything good so something is behind their change in condition, Moses never lived with other prophets and during his lifetime there's was no mention of Lazarus.

So it must have been one of Jesus' parables.
Thanks to God for sending His Holy Spirit to help us interpret all these symbolic terms otherwise we will also be a part of the world who keeps arguing on what Jesus said! Daniel 12:10

Very very simple logic!
Allah simply means God and according to God's word "there are many Gods" {1Corinthians 8:5} so each person will speak in the name of his/her own Allah (God) Micah 4:5
The God of Jesus' disciples says:

"This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. Listen to him" Matthew 17:5

The God of Muslims says:

"I have no sons"

So the difference is obvious!

TenQ:
I believe I asked you several direct question to help you slow down and analyse the scriptures. Let me reiterate

Your questions stems from the teachings of the churches of Christendom so if you truly want the answers it's you that needs to calm down.

TenQ:
Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night —those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
1. What is a TORMENT knowing that the dead knows NOTHING!

The torment means something else because Jesus the same person revealing this sacred secrets have used this same symbolic term when he was with his disciples.
Remember the parable of Lazarus and the rich man? That parable need to be understood but most Bible readers just dismiss it and took it literally. Judgment hasn't come when Jesus was on earth neither has it come now the dead has not been resurrection so where did Jesus got that story?
Well he was giving the parable to show how tormented the Pharisees will be when he's gone and everyone began noticing that the God of Israel has approved Jesus' group.
So if you're taking the words literally then what about the sea out of which a beast having seven heads suffice? What about the harlot sitting on the beast? What about the angels pouring out the things in their vessels?

TenQ:
2. Can I torment a dead cat?

The dead knows nothing neither do they feel anything that's what God's word says about the dead {Ecclesiastes 9:5-10} so what you're reading shouldn't be taken literally.

TenQ:
3. What does it mean that they have No Rest day and night?

This simply means whoever remembers their acts will fear not to be like them

TenQ:
4. If the dead are deemed to have slept, how come these particular set of dead people have no rest? Job 14:10-12
Matthew 25:46
46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
Since the dead know nothing, can the dead be punished?

They are facing eternal punishment because they will not be resurrected. All of us are under the same punishment {Romans 3:23} but due to our faith in Christ Jesus we will be pardoned and return life during the resurrection {John 11:25} but as for these people their own punishment is forever, they will not be remembered! Revelations 20:15

TenQ:
5. Doesn't this mean that only the living can be punished?
Five separate question that deserve short answers

Punishment is what God's word called death {Genesis 2:17; 3:19 compare to Romans 6:23} because it's not in God's good plan that humans should die {Ezekiel 33:11} it's Adam's rebellion that brought this punishment upon mankind! Romans 5:12
If you truly want to know what others believe i will advise you not to seek short answers because you can't give short answers and think you've helped someone who doesn't understand God's word, you'll either keep yours and leave them to keep theirs. True Christians are patient when it's time to help others grasp what is written in God's word! 1Peter 3:15

May you have PEACE!

bobestman:
I have taught you a lot of things. Go ponder on them or follow what you believe.

My friend you are only arguing here, teaching is about result so if there's no result of what think you're teaching then you haven't taught a single thing!

sagenaija:
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If quoting the Scripture is now a fruitless thing then it is all the more clear that you prefer 'deeper understanding' of men to God's sure word.

Any group can argue that they are United in what they believe or stand for. I am yet to see a Catholic who doesn't believe that his church is the one true church and that they are practicing the one true religion. In fact, he will say that the rest are 'Protestants' against the one true group.

The Grail Movement believe in Jesus. But as what? A great man? An enlightened Master?

At the time of Christ on earth even groups that were usually divided along different lines were united against him. Show me the Scriptures those in the time of Christ quoted and I show you that it was more for self-preservation than the search for the truth.

So, the issue is not group. Those in error can and do act in the same line of thought. Are members of a group like ISIS not thinking along the same line even though other will say they are in error? The issue is 'what think ye of Christ'. Do you believe he is who he says he is? How can we know who he is said to be? The Scriptures!

If one believes that Jesus was just a good man, is that enough for eternal salvation? What of saying that he was just a carpenter, or a miracle worker, or even a great teacher? If one believes that he was just a prophet, will that be enough to save? If one believes that he was an angel who died for man is that salvific?

Remember Mary and Martha? What was Mary commended for by Jesus? Works of faith? What was Martha indicted on?

Man or group cannot be the yardstick for evaluation. It is the Word of God. But it clear to all that you will prefer your DOGMA-influenced position than the Word of God. You prefer your organisation's leanings than the Scripture.

Apostle John in rounding off his gospel made this statement:
"But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name."
John 20:31 NIV
Belief in Jesus as the Saviour and God the Son is the key issue. Why? Because only God can save; no other creature has the capacity to. If any other creature did, God's statement that 'My glory I will share with no one' will not hold true.

The highlighted is a welcome development then if each group says they are the only group practicing what Jesus taught the next thing to ask is what are the WORKS of your faith! James 2:18
The Bible has been given to mankind so if you want to argue surely see what to tap and hing on for you to claim you're right and others are wrong but then we need to ask what should be the result of faith among believers.
If you're not interested in that then each person can hold on to his/her faith because he or she will have something to keep quoting in support of his/her faith.
That's why Jesus said "by their FRUITS you will know" this means each group will have what they are doing but the true disciples of Christ will have their fruit stand out {Galatians 5:22-23} the qualities listed in those verses is what no imperfect human can meet up but as a group having the spirit of God permeating their gathering imperfect humans will exhibit all those qualities and the whole world will see that there's something unique about this group! Matthew 5:13-16
So my friend the letters you're quoting is the Bible no doubt but the understanding is what you don't have! Daniel 12:10 compare to 2Corinthians 3:6

May you have PEACE!