₦airaland Forum

Emusan:
Jesus won't have any need to BECOME PART OF CREATION in the first place.

The point is mankind wouldn't have any need of Archangel Michael (Jesus) at all on this planet if there was no rebellion.
So he has played his part in God's work just as all others have played their part, the one and only person we will know here on this planet is Adam because he's human that's visible nobody will think of any heavenly creature talkless having him in our midst!

Ọmọ there is no amount of argument you're putting up the firstborn child will forever remain one of the children!

Noted!

Emusan:
Why was Paul said Jesus must BE FIRST IN EVERYTHING!

That supposed to be Adam's position before he lost the privilege of being God's first Son through whom all humans must learn about our heavenly father who is the father of our earthly father. Deuteronomy 6:6-7
So had it been Adam remained obedient to his heavenly father whoever dishonour Adam will be exterminated by God Himself:

“Honor your father and your mother, so that you may live a long time in the land that Jehovah your God is giving you" Exodus 20:12

So Adam supposed to be the first in anything we do on this planet if he had remain obedient that's why Paul likened Jesus to Adam:

“The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit! 1Corinthians 15:45

Jesus (Archangel Michael) came to replace Adam otherwise we wouldn't have any need of him coming to this planet in the first place Adam would have remain the everlasting father of all mankind!

FIRSTBORN simply means the first among those being born!
For instance there are billions of humans on this planet today but there is no single human born without Adam being the ancestor! Luke 3:23-38
The same applies to Jesus, because he was given the power (ability) to create other things doesn't make him more than a creature just as Adam can't be separated from all those being born by God even though he is the father of all humans today.
Do you now understand?

Emusan:
Don't change mouth ;DIs Power of God and Wisdom of God a person according to Prov 8 and 1 Corin 1:29?You already have illustration how this is about Yahweh Wisdom brought forth for the purpose of creation.Does Yahweh Wisdom and power a person?Stop this division tactics Oga Ade ;DPaul made it clear in the same Col 1:18 the reason why Jesus has to be FIRST in EVERYTHING.Yahweh is the BEGINNING does that means Yahweh was CREATED or one can ASK, the BEGINNING OF WHAT?But the speaker here isn't a PERSON but infinite Wisdom of Yahweh.Again, if you claimed this to be Jesus, then why not started what He created in the following verses but rather the speaker was saying it was God Himself who is carrying out those activities?
Did God not used Jesus to create ALL OTHER THINGS again? Can you point out "OTHER THINGS" Jesus created according to Prov 8?
I know you and your cohort will never address this.

Ekrenji:
Did he respond to these questions?

If you have any question you're free to ask me on my thread:
https://www.nairaland.com/6589422/study-bible-jehovahs-witnesses
The OP is an atheist and if you're also an atheist let me know!

leoside:
John 19:30 "It is finished".

This simply means Jesus has accomplished his earthly mission:

When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit. NWT

After his successful earthly mission the door is now open for God's kingdom and all it's richly blessings to come but then God must finish wickedness first but now we have the assurance that Adamic sin has been cancelled for all obedient mankind.

The way you guys teach will continue to raise more atheists because they will conclude what God didn't promise them and when it's not forth coming as you taught them they will conclude God doesn't exist!

Emusan:
Is Power of God also a person?

Power and Wisdom of God are used by Paul to illustrate how much his fellow believers could gain by learning about Christ that's why he told them:
For “who has come to know the mind of Jehovah, so that he may instruct him?” But we do have the mind of Christ! 1 Corinthians 2:16
Without Jesus the believers can't gain the accurate knowledge of the true God regarding WISDOM and POWER.

China already had the potentials before they began inventing what the world can see but when we see their product we can grasp that they are both powerful and wise through the things they're producing.

Emusan:
Jesus was not created John 1:3 "All things came into existence through him,+ and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."

The firstborn of all creations {Colossians 1:15} is enough to prove that Jesus (Archangel Michael) was created for there can't be any firstborn who is not part of those being born:

“The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old"‭‭ Proverbs‬ ‭8:22‬ ‭NIV‬‬

https://link.bible.app/link/Yc8u

So God first created Jesus (Archangel Michael) then impart in him the knowledge to create all other things that's why he is called FIRSTBORN!

Emusan:
Without Jesus, God doesn't have POWER and WISDOM.

God has always been there it's Jesus (Archangel Michael) who has a beginning as the firstborn of all creations {Colossians 1:15} so it's when God started creating things that His POWER and WISDOM became manifest. Proverbs 8:1, 22
For instance nobody can say China has the potential in technology until they began inventing so many things so we can say their WISDOM and POWER became manifest through their innovations.

That's the practical application of what you're reading not that God doesn't have power and wisdom without Jesus, God could have created another person like Jesus to be His first born son!

He is not PREACHING rather he is TEACHING those gathering in his worship center.

PREACHING is going to meet someone who you don't know neither know you to plead with him or her to consider the message found in God's word.

TEACHING is putting meaning into what is written in God's word (Bible) to help your listeners understand and apply it practically in their lives.

So is Mr Matthew going to meet people who don't know him to plead with them so they can consider the Good News found in the Bible or he is explaining what he knew to those who already acknowledge him as their teacher?

preciousee17:
That moment when there's nothing much to say, but someone feels all itchy to type (not you tho 😂)
Here, I've already known this and I'm surprised to see you pull it up (which confirms to me that no one knows it all alone)
But sir, this shouldn't be a reason to call someone a 'DECEIVER'. I would rather call the person IGNORANT, pertaining to this knowledge but not a deceiver.
2. I would very easily start a ministry and preach to people with the name Pastor Preciousee17... Does that mean I'm going to surely deceive them?

Most people aren't really determine to deceive others but they themselves are deceived that's why we often try to have a conversation with them because we love them but it's the titles they carry in their heads that often blur their senses from admitting what they don't know!

Dtruthspeaker:
hehehe you want to know my pastor and church .
I told you before that i don't do that shit.
Ever since I was young and saw that Catholic church tell lies and methodist pastors are adulterous wife beating drunkards and then i read that "behold, false prophets shall rise up".
Quick quick, i rose up and fled from all of una.
I don't trust no church nor any pastor nor any man.
But i completely trust God's Words in the bible. So the bible is my Pastor and my Church and i do not invite you to my church and to my pastor. We don't like strangers I think I told you all these before.

So in a nutshell you don't want to hear anyone bearing the title "PASTOR" shey?

Mogbonjubola55:
by: Pastor Joel Osteen

Case closed!

litigator:
Religion js just a tool man developed to seek God. God, himself, is not religious.

Are you sure of what you typed or you're just tired of all the atrocities committed in the name of RELIGION?

Workch:
I don't know if a god exist

Now you're sincere in your talk!

Workch:
I
but I'm sure the Christian God is fake.

If you don't know what GOD should do then you can't know a fake God.
If someone told you a carpenter is coming to your house and there are things needed to be fixed in your house surely you'll be anticipating a fine renovation but do you teach the carpenter how to do his job or you show him what you need to fix and allow him do his job?
So if you don't know God's work you can't know a fake God!

Chimdera:
How do I help my brother turn to Christ?


Helping your brother turn to Christ involves showing love, understanding, and support. Engage in open conversations about his beliefs, answer any questions he might have, and share your own faith journey. Invite him to attend church services or events, read the Bible together, and pray together. Be patient and respectful of his process, allowing him to explore his own spiritual path. Remember that genuine transformation comes from within, so focus on being a positive influence and offering guidance rather than pressuring him.

Christ is the King of God's kingdom so those that can be drawn to Christ are sincere and honest hearted individuals who want to see righteousness reign in the midst of humans not people who are feeling they should be favoured more than others!
So to help anyone to turn to the King of God's kingdom all you need to do is preach about the everlasting blessings God's kingdom will bring all those having clean conscience will love it and start thinking of how to become part of the beneficiaries by obeying the king now! John 3:16

Dtruthspeaker:
hehehehe
The guy resemble antiChrist sha ni.

Do you believe in any pastor?
Can you tell us the name of your church and the officiating pastor?
Guy it's known that you're your own pastor and none of these so called men of God seems worthy of emulating to you.
So instead of hiding behind a finger come out and prove me wrong!

johnw47:
false jw's spend much of their time trying to show from the Bible things about them,
Christians on the other hand show from the Bible things about Christ: that "Jesus is Lord" for example, false jw's preach mostly about how good false jw's are, Christians preach mostly about how good Christ is

That's because Jesus belongs to God so all sects can continue claiming they're worshiping or working for him.
For instance Muslims also claim they believe in Jesus so what makes them different from you if not just words of mouth? Matthew 15:7-8
That's why Jesus said there must be WORKS to distinguish his true disciples from all other religions disguising as his followers! Matthew 7:21-23

johnw47:
if Christians don't tell you satan's mob, about the works we do, makes us liars,

Which of your numerous sects is practicing CHRISTIANITY?
CHRIST JESUS prayed to his father for his disciples to have the same line of thought {John 17:22} he taught them to love their fellow believers just as he love them {John 13:34-35} he warned them not to hate their enemies {Matthew 5:44} he asked them to pray and bless their enemies {Luke 6:27-28} he taught them to separate themselves from worldly politics! John 17:14

So Mr John which of all these mixed up sects is practicing what Jesus commanded as a group today?

johnw47:
and we are not saved by works but by God's grace:

Eph 2:8  For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 
Eph 2:9  not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The quoted verse is talking about members of Jehovah's Witnesses within our gathering each of us is contributing to the great work we are doing globally as we have the undeserved kindness (grace) to participate in it so none of us should boast that he's greater than his fellow JW who is also contributing his or her quota in the disciple making WORK assigned to all of us.

Not faithless miscreants claiming Christians with contradicting teachings and conflicting doctrines like you people that will quickly pick up weapons against one another in the face of politics and racism then say you have the grace to kill your fellow worshipers! Matthew 7:21-23

johnw47:
most dum brainwashed lost false jw mad max
you believe everything people in your org. tell you Christendom and Christianity is the exact same thing Christendom. / (ˈkrɪsəndəm) / noun. the collective body of Christians throughout the world or throughout history. an obsolete word for Christianity.
so many words just to lie

Why not prove me wrong using what Jesus himself said?
For your information the dictionary you're using also say Muhammad and Jesus are both sent by God. Do you agree to that?
No wonder God's word foretold that Satan will hijack the name God's people will use as a curse and the true God will destroy Satan and all those following him disguising with that group name (CHRISTIANS) but His own people He (GOD) will call by another group name: JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES! Isaiah 65:15
So you people can continue deceiving yourselves claiming you're Christians while contradicting yourselves in doctrines and multiplying in sects {Luke 11:23} we are in our spiritual paradise as one big and happy family of peace loving worshipers {Isaiah 2:2-4} speaking in harmony {Zephaniah 3:9} just as our Master Lord and King Christ Jesus prayed for us to be! John 17:22

preciousee17:
You want to spark some vawulence in front of an unarmed comrade?

The word "DECEIT" has nothing to do with preference being nepotistic won't help in this case so to know the truth one must not be biased in his or her findings.

The title "PASTOR" means "SHEPHERD" Jesus is the fine shepherd for God's flock so there are under-shepherds serving under the fine shepherd but none of them should attach the title to their names {Matthew 23:8-10} that is why you can't see any writer throughout the Bible who will address a servant of God as Prophet Moses or Prophet Elijah or King David or Apostle John.
Why?
All these people are serving as workers under God instead of attaching titles to their names what you will find in the scriptures is:
Moses the prophet, Elijah the prophet, David the King, Paul the apostle.
All servants of God must be humble just as labourers aren't addressed as:
Carpenter Jackson or Bricklayer Dickson!
So if you find anyone attaching religious titles to his or her name then such a person is about to DECEIVE people!

hahn:
Lol. In 2023?

That's the beauty of knowledge you pass it onto others no matter the veil used in covering your face one day you will know the truth and it will set you free ~ Jesus of Nazareth

Janosky:
Emusan confused LIAR
Proverbs 8:27-30
27“When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He decreed a vault on the face of the deep,
28“When He set the clouds above, When He made the fountains of the deep strong,
29“When He gave to the sea its limit, So that the waters would not transgress His command, When He decreed the foundations of the earth,
30“Then I was beside Him, a master workman
Emusan's says Jesus the Wisdom of God is an ONLOOKER in Proverbs 8:27-30.
The created work man called Wisdom/Jesus Christ, Emusan relegated to "ONLOOKER" .

They say the wisdom of God is not a person on his own {Proverbs 8:1} yet Paul made us understand that Christ is the one called the wisdom of God! 1Corinthians 1:30

I'm just tired of trinitarians!

Mogbonjubola55:
Pastor Joel Osteen

Are you sure this man himself is not a deceiver?

Mogbonjubola55:
Pastor E.A. Adeboye

Are you sure this man himself is not a deceiver?

Indifferent12:
For real?
People having same opinion on a matter is religion. So if me and you agree on a subject matter that means we are in the same religion.
Omo, this is quite embarrassing, I give up on you

That's better!

Whatever makes you agree with another man and do things wholeheartedly when all others think differently is your own RELIGION!

What's the difference between this God and Jupiter?
Because the same could be said about other Gods if you listen to the adherents of other Gods!

Indifferent12:
What makes a religion?

People having the same opinion on matters so that they will act the same way due to what they've concluded unanimously.
That's what makes a religion!

Jokerman:
Matthew 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Jesus isn't talking about binding demons here rather he was referring to agreement they will make after praying as a group in his name shall be granted to them since it's all about the job he assigned to them.

Jokerman:
So why did Jesus tell his disciples this before he went to the cross?

They must agree first if Jesus is allowed to be the chairman in their gathering that means it's his wise counsel that should serve as their guide.

Jokerman:
Where was Jesus called Angel in the Bible?

Who is the angel of God representing Jehovah while leading the Israelites from Egypt?
Exodus 13:21 compare to Exodus 14:19

You try jàre!

Jokerman:
So they all work with and for Satan then?

Of course Satan rules over all fallen angels on planet earth because he was a general (Cherub) back in heaven.

Jokerman:
Lol... So why was Jesus casting out demons,binding them and casting them to the Abyss or into pigs brfore he went to the cross?? Or haven't you read that the devils were subject unto the disciples of Jesus before the successful mission on earth?

God's servants has the right to expel demons but Jesus' disciples don't know that as servants of God that authority belongs to them that's why Jesus told them that even faith as tiny as the mustard seed is enough to do that.
They can't cage any demons all they can do is send them away from their territory so as not to disturb their preaching and teaching work in Israel!

Jokerman:
Lol... At least you know that there were other angels, and what degree of angel is Gabriel... Is he an archangel or a normal angel?😬

So learn today that only two angels were mentioned by name throughout the Bible:

Michael and Gabriel, God's word called Michael the Archangel meaning the first and foremost of all the angels which is exactly the same description that was given to Jesus!