₦airaland Forum

lawani:
What Christians say is that God will burn you in hell for unbelief. Not crimes but unbelief. We are talking of holy unbelievers here. You can't be threatening law abiding people with hell fire. God is not an immoral bastard. Do you get it?. Even if you nuke the whole world for doing nothing wrong, hell fire or infinite punishment will still be gross but Christians threaten holy people. I don't support that

The highlighted really amuse me:
HOLY UNBELIEVERS
Of course you'll find virtuous people in all the religions on this planet but when talking about "HOLINESS" it's only within Christianity that you can find Holy ones.

I think what you don't understand is that adjective "HOLY"

JaySmart4422:
Is not talking to someone or greeting them the only sin capable of making one miss heaven ?
I ask cos most Christians consider it the only sin. Many people feel if you stop talking to someone you will automatically land in hell fire
They paint it and make it look like is the only sin on earth Meanwhile there more terrible sin
They can never condemn. Lastly can one forgive , forget and stay on their own without greeting?

Generally greeting is a common thing anywhere we go though forms of greetings differs but then on what ground is it proper to stop greeting someone we know?

The Bible says:

Now I urge you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them! Romans 16:17

If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 2John 1:10


One may start to wonder how can Christians who are to call others in their neighbourhood who are sinners to repentance if they should stop greeting such ones due to difference in beliefs?

That's why we need to revisit what Jesus Christ told his disciples regarding wrongdoing:

"Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector. Matthew 18:15-17

From the above admonition Jesus commanded the complainant (disciple) to take the initiative for peaceful resolution because the accused may not even be aware of his wrongdoing and if the offender should tender an apology the complainant must forgive instantly no matter how many times the accused goes wrong as long as he/she admits his/her blunder saying "i'm sorry". Matthew 18:20-21

But after the first move if the offender tries to prove he's right then the complainant must go again to speak with accused but this time with two Christian brothers so that at the mouth of two witnesses he may regain his consciousness that he was wrong.

If after that he still maintain his position then the matter will be tabled before the elders of the congregation to reproof the accused but if he still maintained his position then he or she would be treated as an unrepentant wrongdoer, from that very moment all members of the congregation must avoid having anything to do with him not even a greeting. So it's no longer the matter of the complainant but that of the whole association of brethren in Christ Jesus!

Mhizshelly:
I pray oo

The first time Israelites unanimously launched an attack on pure worship Jerusalem was torn apart and the temple destroyed because they were attacking the one and only group that was supposed to be the salt and light of the world: CHRISTIANITY
This is the second time and according to Jesus of Nazareth this sign will serve as endtime events are unfolding! Matthew 24:7-14

Techobeys:
I think your mistake comes from not knowing that there are three categories of people that the bible talks about.
1. The Old Testament saints
2. People who die in Christ (e.g. Paul and the other apostles)
3. Those who will be alive when Christ comes
So kindly read with understanding and ask for insight

Why not expatiate using the Bible?

There are just two categories of faithful people:
© The Servants of God in ancient times before the coming of Christ, all of them believe in life everlasting on planet earth {Psalms 37:9-11, 29} when all evildoers has been exterminated! Proverbs 2:20-22 compare to Job 14:13-15

© The Servants of God who lived the new life expected of people in Paradise as they've been counseled by the King himself (Jesus Christ) these ones will help ancient servants of God to know what the Christ taught us in Paradise when they are resurrected. It's among these ones that God chose those that will rule with Christ so he promised to take them to heaven {John 14:6} instead of Jerusalem on earth! Isaiah 2:3

Apart from these two all other humans are categorized as UNRIGHTEOUS but even among the unrighteous are some conscientious ones who strive to do what is right though they don't know the righteousness of God {Romans 1:20} these ones will also be resurrected as UNRIGHTEOUS ones along with the RIGHTEOUS {Act 24:15} but as for those that choose to be WICKED deliberately they will never be remembered during resurrection! Psalms 9:17

Techobeys:
Mr max, this is poor understanding. Your comprehension is not of Godly level.

Present the organization of those practicing Christianity in the right sense so instead of arguing over faith let everyone see how your FAITH is WORKING! James 2:18-26

Ken4Christ:
You unbelief will not change the truth of the scripture. It will eventually land you in hell. You will feel very sorry for yourself the day you see your soul in hell. You will remember all the opportunities you had to repent but threw them away. It's your choice. You have chosen your destiny.

First of all Hell means Grave and at death you'll not know or feel anything otherwise you would have seen how we will enjoy everlasting life in Paradise on Earth when you're not part of those benefiting from the provisions God made for faithful people.

Gravity and black holes aren't visible yet they're BELIEVED globally because of the reactions of objects close to them so if you're saying there is no God you should be able to explain why mankind throughout history have always had the idea, what exactly has been driving mankind towards that end?

donbenie:
There's nothing one sided about a proof..
It is TANGIBLE, VERIFIABLE and REPLICATEABLE.
If it doesn't meet these criterias,then it's all hot air..😂

Ọmọ it's one sided!
Billions of people around you are of the opinion that there is God/Gods but you woke up one day and say there is no God it's either way to make them BELIEVE what you're saying you too should be able to prove it after all you met people with the concept globally!

donbenie:
To Believe means to accept without prove..
How can I have a believe when I asked for proofs? You see how that sounds? Atheism asked for proofs.. If I asked for proofs..
Then I don't BELIEVE..😂

Your opinion would have work with misinformed religionists but with one of Jehovah's Witnesses it won't.
WHY?
I BELIEVE there is nothing like Ghost while most people BELIEVE in Ghosts so asking for proof can't be one sided!

donbenie:
Atheism is not a form of BELIEVE..
Atheism is the ABSENCE OF BELIEVE..
It is very simple,you believe in a God..
Atheism says,PROVE IT..
That is not a believe system..

There you go!

I BELIEVE in God you BELIEVE in no God then you're asking me to prove my BELIEF why not you prove yours as you believe in no God.

Perhaps you don't understand what BELIEVE really means it connotes TRUST so if i trust that there is God my attitude will go in line with what i believe and if you believe in no God your attitude will be in line with what you believe!

donbenie:
It is natural for man to wonder where life and the world originated from.. Believing that a Supernatural Being brought about the existence of life,is a natural consequence of Primitive societies..

So ATHEISM is not part of the human society while BELIEVE in God is as hold as mankind.

Thanks for admitting this!

donbenie:
ALL MEN ARE BORN ATHEIST.

Sorry this is a lie because atheism in itself is a form of BELIEVE just say humans are born with blank brains so if you have a child today keep him/her somewhere so that the child won't interact with anyone not even a sign language just keep food close to him/her as he/she is growing up to the stage where the brain starts absorbing information, don't speak to the child, no music, no videos just make sure the child is all alone with food and see what you'll have after ten years.
You will come back and thank religion!

donbenie:
Morality is NOT synonymous with religion..
I don't have to be religious to have morals,that's a fallacy.. The ability to feel empathy,does not require you to believe in a higher being.. So, I don't have to brainwash my children into believing in some all knowing Supernatural being,to make them better humans.. Meanwhile,the claim was that man was born with religion and that is obviously not true.. No man is born with the knowledge of any God,it is a learned pattern of behaviour and so my assertion stands.

You misconstrued the highlighted!

Humans were born with the instinct that there are higher intelligent beings that's why you can never find any culture no matter how remotely distant they are from civilization where those living there don't have the idea of God or Gods because morality is tied to the thought that some supernatural beings are in support of virtue.

overcomersfaith:
Beloveth why is it as soon some many believer gets born again… they grow cold, lose the fire and peak out spiritually?
Today's topic is a very crucial one… this is the bane of Christendom… many believers falling by the way sides… why?

Real believers don't fall of from having faith they only progress in wisdom regarding the way of righteousness that is of God! Proverbs 4:18
So when you see anyone falling off completely from having faith know that they never had it in the first place they're just following the crowd! John 6:60-69
Faithful people may be found in virtually all the religions on this planet but according to Jesus they're lost in false religions {Matthew 10:6} that's why his disciples need to fish out such ones {Mark 1:17} and bring them home to the finisher and perfecter of faith. Hebrews 12:2
Faithless miscreants with their faithlessness will always follow after the crowd {Exodus 23:1-2} instead of making sure of the truth and sticking to what is good! 1 Thessalonians 5:21

donbenie:
All men are born Atheist..
Until the likes of you,gets hold of them and brainwash them with your superstitious drivels..

Did people automatically develop
Language
Table manners
Hygiene
Dressing and grooming
Dancing
Singing and many more without being taught?

Ọmọ morality must also be inculcated just like these things so each person is responsible for what he infused in the heart of their children that's why it's necessary you make a thorough research before picking up what to believe meanwhile atheism and agnosticm is not left out because both are forms of beliefs so if you choose to teach your child that there's no God that's what you want your child to BELIEVE!

lawani:
We did not have religion in the past. Just theology and traditions

Ọmọ we do have our own religion that's what you're not getting!

Unlike politics each region has their traditional religions and it's numerous that's why the gods had no grip on our political system, each religion with it's god and our kings were also referred to as "ọba igbákejì òrìṣà" meaning "king second in command to the deities"
The kings do consult different deities for what they call cleansing of our lands and each god has it's adherents who adhere strictly to the rules of the deity that's what makes you think we don't have our own religion.
In Yorùbá land alone we have Ṣàngó worshipers, Ògún worshipers, Ọbàtátá worshipers, Èṣù worshipers, Ifá worshipers and each of these religions do name their children according to their deity: Ṣàngótádé (Ṣàngó worshiper) Ògúnjọbí (Ògún worshiper) Èṣùbíyì (Èṣù worshiper) Fákúnlé (Ifá worshiper)

The only difference is our people can go anywhere they like it's only the priests of these deities that are static as for those patronizing them they can go anywhere for help.

But when the whitemen came they decided to render the gods irrelevant so that our people may be carried away with their political system that's why today you can't find anyone in the house of Assembly, Governor or President who will tell you he's/she's a Traditionalists all of them are either claiming Christian or Muslim because with these religions the adherents are expected to be immovable with their stand!

lawani:
Atheism is cool. Childlike innocence is harmless. It is you people that are dangerous. You understand?. Atheism is not evil like religion.

Just as Jesus of Nazareth said:

Eyes you have but you can't see, ears you have but can't understand.

Do you think people worshiping in different ways are the ones behind killing their neighbours?

Let me take you back the memory lane:
Before the whiteman came to Africa our people have their traditional forms of religion and each has different rules. The worshipers of Ọ̀ṣun ṣẹ̀ngẹ̀sẹ́, Èṣù ọ̀dàrà, Ṣàngó, Ọ̀sanyìn, Olú-òkun (Olókun), Ifá (Ọ̀rúnmìlà) and many more have their dos and donts which adherents holds so dearly and religiously but since our traditional Kings view themselves as demigods none of these gods control the affairs of their domain no matter what the priests of this gods say it's either they are appeased with sacrifice or sent out of their domain along with the priest of any god trying to take control of their political affairs.

But when the whitemen came they noticed that African kings have the final say while the gods are just advisers on issues no matter how serious it is so they began attacking the gods in a subtle way using schools to change the thinking of the African child until our gods became irrelevant before educated Africans who has been taught how to rule over our kings with the support of the whiteman.

So that's how politics took over from our kings and rendered our gods irrelevant before the African child whose parents now wants him or her to become lawyers, doctors, engineers, professors and many more. All these professionals are the same people that formed our political system under supervision of the white supremacists.

Now let's ask ourselves: Is religion the problem or politics?

Remember we have our traditional religions and political system before the whiteman (English) came so they attacked our religion because they realized it has no grip on our political system and they already had the experience of how Rome ruled for centuries using religion as cover-up.
Do you know why British colonials fully backed the North and insisted that we must merge as one nation for independence despite knowing fully well that we are not in any way compatible?
Well it's because they prefer to hand over power to the North as they've discovered that their religion has a grip on their political system unlike the south.

So stop blaming RELIGION it's not the cause of world's problem rather it's POLITICS!

Saxobeat:
Religion won't be the end of humanity

That's politics not religion!

Israel is under a CURSE but most people don't know so if anyone thinks they're still God's people let such a person have a rethink Jesus said:

“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. Look! Your house is abandoned to you". Matthew 23:37-38
The people have always misconstrue God's will for political conquest so when Jesus arrived as the Messiah they were anticipating a global conquest as written in the scriptures {Daniel 2:44} but the Christ will not fight the battle with human soldiers {Zechariah 4:6} because he is here to save mankind not to destroy them, he knows fully well that Satan and his demons are the ones behind mankind's trouble so he must be calm in handling the matter otherwise he will have to kill everybody if care is not taken because nobody is holy.

Before Jesus' ministry two Israelites rose both claiming they are the Christ both of them died and nobody remember them till today if not what Gamaliel said in the book of Acts of apostles {Act 5:36-37} Jesus only mentioned the case once saying they were thieves and plunders {John 10:8} but the Jews never wanted a calm and just leader like Jesus in fact they wanted to make him their ruler by force after seeing how he fulfilled most of the Messianic prophecies! John 6:15

Jesus maintained that he wasn't here to judge anyone but to save {John 3:16-17} so if anyone is a sinner his ministry is to help such one come to repentance {Matthew 9:13} this is the reason why his people hate him to death in fact the day they were standing before the Roma governor Pontius Pilate demanding the death of Jesus Christ the man washed his hands saying he's no party in shedding the blood of this innocent man but the Jews said "let his blood come upon us and upon our children" READ Matthew 27:15-26

So they're eating their last supper each time they are helped to resettle after the Romans destroyed their city and temple in the first century any political leader that supports their evil ambitions they will see as their Messiah hoping such one will fulfill the role of Christ as written in the scriptures {Daniel 2:44; Isaiah 9:6-7} today they have forgotten that it's the same church people who fought to rescue many of them from the hand of Adolf Hitler.

The one and only reason Jerusalem has not been wiped out of the world's map is due to the promise God made to King David otherwise what they did to Jesus of Nazareth is enough to send them all into the abyss after all what God wanted from them has been gotten: the first fruit of God's kingdom which is the first century Jewish disciples of Christ Jesus so God has no need of them anymore since they rejected Jesus whom Moses warned them strictly never to ignore! Deuteronomy 18:18-19

Ken4Christ:
It's a supernatural experience. It can't happen to everyone. It's according to the will of God. Some have also visited hell and came back. Mary Baxter has visited both hell and heaven. It does not happen to everyone.

Some go with their spirit out of their body while others go with their complete body. This is why Paul was uncertain whether he was out of his body or in his body when he had the experience.

Let those with heaven and hell experience stay on their lane as for what happened to Paul he had a vision not what happened literally!

lawani:
It was not his father's house. That is the issue. Then he used whips according to the Bible and I would not know if he used other arms. However when he was to be arrested, his companions were armed and one of them inflicted a wound on one of the soldiers that came to arrest him showing clearly that the claim by the Jews that Jesus and his disciples were thugs that used to get involved in street fights might be true. The only evidence in the Bible for that are the two examples I shared

Now you should have known that only JWs are true Christians as i've been defending what you read about Jesus and his disciples.

Jesus never carry any weapons and before the event that led to his arrest he told his disciples to get a sword each at all cost {Luke 22:36} but the eleven in response told him they have two swords.

Now let's reason logically: was Jesus talking about physical sword? If so then how can eleven men share two swords and Jesus said "that's enough" {Luke 22:38} do you think that's the kind of sword he asked each of them to own? Ephesians 6:17 compare to Hebrews 4:12

lawani:
I only pointed out that Jesus was not a non arms bearing pacifist and where he disrupted peace was not his father's house but the community synagogue. Then if JW happen to win over a whole country and form the government there, do you agree it will be the Catholic church all over again? A repeat of the cycle all over again. That is the issue. The inquisition all over again etc etc

It's not just one of their Synagogues but the temple in Jerusalem which is the house of their God even your so called African gods won't tolerate that. So Jesus going there to drive them out was justified and he wasn't armed as you thought. As for Jehovah's Witnesses the only rule that makes us different from all others is never supporting WARS so what you're thinking will never ever happen among us!

lawani:
While early Christians are like JW, Jesus was not. He fought in the temple and his disciples were always armed

Why not ask what happened instead of saying what you don't understand?

If your family house is been turned into a place where some members choose to keep their domestic animals for sell with animal poo smelling everywhere do you call a member of your family who goes there to drive them out a fighter?
Who among the sellers will have the impetus to say what he did to keep the family house tidy is wrong?

Ọmọ just calm down and ask whatever you don't understand Jesus' disciples were armed because they were still anticipating a time Jesus will lead the people into a revolution against Rome but he never did that's why they can't fight back when Jews were attacking them for their faith àbí you have any idea where the early Christians retaliated the ill-treatment they were getting from the Jews?

donbenie:
Both articles I posted,dwelled on systematic abuses and cover ups,not isolated ,individual imperfect humans.. Like I said, it's one thing for religion to claim moral high grounds,that the reality have been impossible to replicate..
All make the same claim,non have walked their talk..

Instead of meditating on what i said you're thinking of what false religions told you!

Did i talk of high moral stuff?

Come on atheists, agnostics and Traditionalists also claim they are morally clean so i'm not talking about self appraisal of morality that anyone can claim but a conventional ideology that carries everyone in a group along!

What the world need to save us from troubles is the belief that nobody will raise a weapon in support of anybody no matter what happens instead we must resolve all issues amicably!

If my son rapes your daughter or it's your daughter that sexually molested my son we must have a reasonable form of punishment for such wrongdoing that's agreed by all that's what true religion does not that it will make people behave like robots NO.

So if we've all agreed on the punishment that's reasonable for such wrongdoing we must not compromise no matter how related to the victim or culprit. The problem in the world today is compromise when the relatives of the culprit are trying to evade justice or the relatives of the victim are demanding more than what has been agreed upon as suitable punishment for the offence that's how politics and racism set in and WAR begin but if we are all submissive to the same line of thought like Jehovah's Witnesses there can never be wars.

The people accusing us don't know what we agreed within ourselves as punishment for blunders yet they're crying outside the camp have you caught any Jehovah's Witnesses molesting your child? Please do whatever you like to such a person but you can't teach us how to go about our own cases that's within us, we're not like others who loose it and start killing one another over such cases!

Emusan:
Irrelevant story!

Very logical illustration that you can't refute!

Without excommunication of wrongdoers what Isaiah 2:2-4 says can't be fulfilled just as without boiling water you can't make Ẹ̀bà but instead of arguing fruitlessly why not present a single group that's fulfilling what Isaiah said apart from Jehovah's Witnesses who are excommunicating wrongdoers?

lawani:
If people are excommunicating the whole world, why do you think the whole world should not excommunicate them from public spaces? But of course they can't ban them from practice in private. When harmful ideologies are left to fester it will spread and branch out into even more harmful ideologies. JW are exactly like early christians which morphed into catholicism which branched into Islam which branched into Shiites Sunni etc and Catholicism branched into Protestantism into pentecostalism which has JW as a branch and JW is just like early Christianity!

Stop deceiving yourself it's clear that you hate TRUTH!

Christianity has nothing to do with all those you mentioned i have told you this several times but you keep repeating it.

Jesus said Satan will initiate his own followers who will claim they're Christians {Matthew 13:25} but by their FRUITS you will know them. Matthew 7:16-18

Any religion that's in support of lifting weapons against fellow humans is not a Christian group because Christ taught his disciples never to raise weapons against anyone {Matthew 5:43-48} so how can killers be followers of a leader who outrightly condemns killing? Matthew 26:52

donbenie:
Like I said..
No religion meets your claims..
I can give you more excerpts if you need it..
https://avoidjw.org/news/racial-segregation/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah%27s_Witnesses%27_handling_of_child_sex_abuse

Do you still remember my claim?

Well it's ERADICATION of POLITICS, RACISM and WAR.

That you can never ever find in our midst but as for blunders that's common among imperfect humans surely you will find it in our midst because we are also imperfect humans.

Now listen.
POLITICS, RACISM and WAR need the support of others so even though the one they're supporting is evil some people won't mind simply because of what they will gain so they're ready to carry weapons and fight in support of their choice of leader but no matter what happens you can't find a Jehovah's witness that will lift up weapons in support of anyone.

That's the KEY!

lawani:
It is okay so far they don't use public spaces. No one after all can go into someone's head to change their belief. They are okay if they are banned from public practice

Banning people for their beliefs is intolerance all we can do is avoid them if possible because everyone has what is called "human right" and part of your right as human is to hold your own beliefs as long as you're not hurting anyone in your neighbourhood!

E be like sey you no know sey the most difficult group to beat intelligently are Jehovah's Witnesses, we will prove to you that everything we do is LOGICAL and WISE!

lawani:
Initiators of violence should be met with violence of course while murderers are promptly killed.

Now you're talking!

My God promised to KILL all killers and anyone supporting killing. That's what makes Jehovah's Witnesses different because we have no killers in our midst judgment of evildoers we leave to our God but they can't continue being our fellow worshipers so we EXCOMMUNICATE them unless they're REPENTANT!

lawani:
I would sign only laws passed by the majority and if by any chance they pass an unjust law, I would resign rather than sign it unless they force me but men of equal rank don't join together to do evil and many heads are always better than one. If citizens do something wrong but are not violent, I will support fining them repeatedly until they go bankrupt and I will never be in support of exiling one person not to talk of the majority

While they're killing people around your domain shey?