₦airaland Forum

davidylan:
and here we go with the unending circus again. simply recycling the same battered arguments.

. . . and simply recycling stereotypic falsehood deliberately put forward to justify irrational hate for christianity (often falsely masqueraded as "religions".

Same old, same old. . . . .What are the "falsehoods"?. . . .Does the religion you subscribe to depend on demonizing other religions for survival? YES. . . .So what exactly is the "falsehood"?. . . . . . . .By the way no body "hates" Christianty, I know you are completely deluded and wired in a way that makes you think that any body that disagrees with your mythical beliefs either hates you, or hates your mythical beliefs but, hey keep on keeping on. . . . .

so do i have the right to challenge what goes on in the sanctity of your private home? The comments here are just incredulous.

Do you and your brothers/sisters keep your beliefs locked up in the privacy of your bedrooms? NO. . . .

No god ever wrote anything any where in the bible, koran or any other religious text out there. Men wrote all those things and claim that it came from the god they created and was revealed to prophets and later to those who wrote it down and collected it (the editors). . . . . .Take away the supernatural claims and you're left with unknown people and the editors, either lying or deluded about these beings.

I take away the supernatural because I see no evidence of its existence. Humans said what's in the bible(Koran and other religious text), for their own reasons. "God said or God wrote" means nothing other than "I want you to believe" and until they produce a god to speak for itself, People should not be interested in "God said or God wrote" anything because they are all LIES that were formed by men.

Could it be that the stories about the miracles of Jesus were mere stories?

But what is the motive and usefulness of critisizing a belief that affects no one but the individual in question?

This is FALSE, do believers think that their beliefs affect no one but them? The answer is NO. . . .Believers do not behave or even agree that their beliefs affect them alone, they are CONSTANTLY trying to spread their myths around and push it down the faces of others. . . .Believers are ALWAYS castigating somebody while pushing or promoting their various myths. . . . .

If I believe Mary was a virgin when she had Jesus, of what impact does that have on anyone but me? Especially if I am a contributing, functioning member of society, why the need to assault what I believe just because you disagree with it?

This is a false statement because Christianity does not only teach people that mary was a virgin, it teaches people to spread that message and teaches them to demonize those that do not accepty the narrative, the Christians do what the religion teaches them, Their religion teches them to condemn those that do not believe in it and tell them that they are immoral savages just because of their unbelief . . . .I think this ties into one of the reasons they're so quick to assume atheists are all immoral savages the religion teaches them that they are degenerate animals when these is been told over and over and over and over again throughout their lives that those that do not subcribe to their belief systems are walking embodiments of lust, violence, jealousy, anger, sin, etc believers spend their lives living under the weight of that twisted and ridiculous accusation and that always results in the anger they display towards those of us that tell them that we do not accept their stories. . . . .If only those that believe will keep their beliefs to themselves them I believe we will all be happy. . . .

Also I don't understand why the word "dogma" has befallen such a fate that it is viewed almost always negatively. Dogma is simply a set of beliefs - usually ones that prescribe attitudes towards moral living. Where's the beef?

The problem with religious dogma is that it every religious dogma puts itself above all other beliefs and claims it is the ultimate true knowledge when it does not even know what it is talking about. . . . .Do religious people go around behaving as if their dogma supercedes everything? YES. . . . .Do they keep their various beliefs to themselves? NO. . . .

Should Religious Dogma Be Free From Criticism? NO. . . .All reliogions rely ONLY on demonizing the beliefs or unbeliefs of those that do not subcribe to their mythical tales for survival. . . .So why should religious dogma that are based on nothing but mythology be free from criticism?

Abu Zola:
The Quran is free from fraud

Saying that trhe koran is free from fraud is the same as saying that Nigerians and not Africans. . . . .

Abu Zola:
Thìs shows that the bible na fraud

And the Koran is a bigger fraud no?

God can't cure amputees and restore their amputated limbs because god does not exist. . . .

blackcypha:
How come all these pple who experience these things describe it differently from person to person?
what about ike uzor nathan who said that he was taken to hell,and that there was nothing like fire there but pple wer just weeping/
or choo thomas who said she was shown hell by Jesus and she saw balls of fire chasing pple from side to side?
why is there CONFLICTING STORIES OF THE SAME PLACE BY DIFFERENT PPLE WHO R CHRISTIANS AND CLAIM TO HAVE BEEN TAKEN BY JESUS SPECIALLY TO SEE THIS HELL OF A PLACE?
WHY WUD THERE NOT BE JUST ONE DISCRIPTION?THE ANSWER IS SIMPLE, HELL IS A MYTHICAL PLACE
INVENTED BY THE JEWS SEEKING REASON FOR JUSTICE TO BE SERVED TO PPLE WHO THEY FEEL R WICKED or who DISPUte THEIR BELIEFS, THEREFORE PPLE SEE AND INTERPRETE IT IN THEIR OWN WAY, BASED ON THE DREAMS THEY HAVE WHICH THEY MISREPRESENT AS VISIONS OF JESUS TAKING THEM ON A JOURNEY, ,
SCIENCE CANNOT VERIFY THE TRUISM OF THESE THINGS PERIOD!

The conflicting and contradictory accounts all boil down to the fact that hell is a myth. . . . .Read Joy Maher's account of her visit to hell and compare it to the fiction that OLAADEGBU posted above and you will see that these people only peddle these stories because they want to scare people and force them to believe their baseless and ridiculous lies. . . .Their accounts are completely different and contradictory, yet the same people all claimed that Jesus or some angels took them to heaven and hell. . . .

g1:
mazaje how far? you said you will holla, i havent heard from you

Sorry Bros. . . .I am no longer coming to Naija this month. . . .Will definately let you know when I am in town. . . . . .

[quote author=rich_john link=topic=398088.msg5515068#msg5515068 date=1266225060]Believe in God has nothing and I repeat nothing to do with religion! I believe in God and I know one thing for sure he NEVER CREATED any religion[/quote]Are you a deist?. . . . . .

Iyineda:
Another thing that bugs me about the idea of "God", through religion, is that he is seen and worshipped differently across the globe. Europe has/had Christianity, Middle East has Islam, the Jews have. . . Judaism (I'm sure you didn't see that coming), East Asia has its various philosophies, etc.

Let's take "God" according to the Christians. If he sent Jesus to deliver his message to mankind, why didn't he try to directly intervene in more than just one region in such a massive planet like Earth?? Because that left a huge chunk of humanity in the dark (poor Asians, Native Americans, Inuits, Sub-Saharan Africans, Arabs, Persians, . . .) before His brave European messengers had the decency to shed some light to the rest of the world.

I mean, He created Man after all. He should have known that we have trust issues. He could have avoided centuries of war!
Just saying. . .

You have gotten the point entirely. . . . .The absence of a single holy text accepted by any denomination of any religion in history that contains no errors of fact is pretty much a clincher. The fact that all religious text look nothing beside what men have written is also very telling. . . . .Basically, we can rule out the truth of any religion that is based on a text that contains errors of fact, Errors that, while they could not have been recognized as such by the men who wrote them, would have been glaringly obvious to a god who actually knew that, for example, the earth was a sphere, The stars were distant suns, or that the sun was powered by thermonuclear fusion.

That disposes of all of the most popular present day religions, and leaves only a handful of odd-ball sects who might be able to claim that their God did this on purpose (perhaps to keep us ignorant as their endless apologies goes).

I keep saying that men created all the gods because any god with an interest in being worshiped, or obeyed, or followed, or really, anything other than being ignored, would be able to write or inspire a holy book that all who read it will find it very convincing, clear, perfect in its meaning, and/or undeniably true. No supposedly holy text that I have come across even gets close at all, but don't take my word for it, ask the more than two thirds of humanity alive today who are NOT followers of that particular text (whichever it may be). No single version of holy scripture is accepted by so much as a simple majority of humans alive today, much less of humans who ever lived.

If the Koran was so damn convincing, why do the Christians reject it? If the Bible was so damn convincing, why do the Muslims reject it, If the Hindu verder is so convincing while do Christians and Muslims reject it? If either (or any other text) was the word of God, we would all believe it, surely? (Book of Mormon? The works of L. Ron Hubbard? Harry Potter?).

Men most definately created all the gods in their own image and likeness, read all the books that the gods "inspired" men to write and you will see that it is nothing more than the wishes, aspirations and thoughts of men and nothing more. . . . .The god concept is good actually because it is a means to an end, It feels good, because you feel like something greater and loving is taking care of you and protecting your future. It fills you with false confidence. Men created all the gods because of its benefit, The one benefit of being faithful is that often your positive thoughts do translate into positive actions sometimes and those actions have positive benefit. . . . . . . If a person fearlessly faces a disease and treatment because they have faith that God is guiding the process, it could reduce their worry and increase their positive actions. But for those of us that do not believe in all these myths we know that good results are more likely to follow positive actions.

Abu Zola:
hahahahha, even albert acknowleges this scientific theory

Are you on cheap high?. . . . . .

davidylan:
I too testify that mohammad is a fraudulent illiterate.

I laugh tire I wan die. . . . .

This guy try ohh. . . .E no easy. . . . .Mallam Bahaushe ya haddache Oxford Advance Learners' Dictionary 6th Edition daga farko har karshe. . . . . .

jagunlabi:
They are trying very hard to redefine and redesign their deity(which is a very positive thing), but their holy book and their unyeilding and narrow doctrines are not leaving them enough wriggle room to maneuvre.
I think the whole of the bible needs to be rewritten to fit the changing consciousness of modern mankind.There is no other way ,imo.And the priests all need to be retrained in deep spiritual stuffs rather than superficial dogmatic stuffs that no longer convince anybody of their relevance.As the human consciousness evolves, so must the doctrines themselves and the texts upon which they are based.

Very true words my Chairman . . . . .The all good and loving God is just the selling point they use to attract people to their religion, Since their religion is based on proliferation they need very good selling points. . . . .I am guessing an omnibenevolent god is automatically and incontrovertibly deserving of adoration and praise. If god is 100% good and you still refuse him, there's got to be something wrong and evil with you. Think about it, if god's an asshole, if you decide not to worship him, it's quite understandable. But you don't want a religion that makes not worshiping that god "understandable".
And it makes that god better than any other god. If my god is awesome and yours in an asshole, then my god is better than yours. And if I worship a god that is all-good while you worship an asshole, I must be better than you. . . . . .There are Christians these days who claim that their God isn't omnibenevolent and that the term omnibenevolent is a strawman invented by wicked atheists in order to reject the God of Christianity.

[quote author=t.truth link=topic=394285.msg5494215#msg5494215 date=1265892832]The truth is that the civilised world don't know what this Islam is all about. So the so called muslims come in subtly and deceive them that Islam is a tolerant religion when what we see is violent and extreme intolerance. As a matter of fact most of muslims are economic migrants, but like you said their goal is to spread that Islamic cult through any means (violence, deception etc).

You don't ever trust any muslim or believe what he says or even signs, what they should watch out for is what is he going to do, which of course is unfathomable.

Whenever these so called radical muslims come into the civilised society, their aim is to destroy that society be refusing to integrate. They deceive the host nations that Islam is peaceful and the host nations allow them to build mosques where they persistently teach their children pure hatred of the west and how to kill them when the opportunity arises.

Also they try to hijack power or if they cannot they try to influence the government. I pray for the western government because they don't know what they getting into. The earlier they get rid of these people, the better.

Look at what Islamic religion have turned Nigeria into. God have mercy.[/quote]The problem is that the Europeans know little or nothing about islam. . . . . .The west is where the idea of accepting others and allowing them to practice their religion was born and is still being practiced. Try being a practicing Jew in Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, and you will see the sheer prejudice and discrimination. The Europeans are really playing with fire, what annoys me the most is the way those on the liberal side of things keep over looking this encroaching danger. . . . . .The Europeans really need to wake up. . . . .

Let me just add that omnibenevolence like nearly everything else in Abrahamic religions is part of the religion to make the religion a more effective tool for political control and nothing else IMO That is why you guys are hell bent on claimng that you God is only good and not evil EVEN WHEN THE BIBLE SAYS HE DOES EVIL ACTS. . . . . .Jews don't seem to be so hung up on benevolence. Theirs is more a God of wrath and vengeance type which Christians try to explain away.

One of the greatest problems Christians have with their God is the Problem of Evil. . . . .My question is why are you guys so hung up on a God that is completely good and loving even though a simple reading of the bible says other wise? There is even a part in the book of Jeremiah where the God of the bible did evil against a group of people and apologized(I can supply the verse).If you guys can just admit that your God is not omnibenevolent all the time you won't have this problem.I can't think of any other religion, dead or extant, that claims their god/s are compassionate all the time. Christians these days sing songs of praises, hymns to their God through Jesus Christ whom the say is the son of their God. None of these hymns glorify their God's wrath and evil deeds. Their God is love they say. It is delusional IMO. They are just creating an idea of God that they would like to believe in. At the same time they condone wars and are not all pacifist.

The whole point to the Christian religion is claiming that their imaginary friend is better than everyone else's imaginary friend. If your imaginary friend is not omnibenevolent, then someone can claim that their imaginary friend is better than yours, which is simply not acceptable.

Deepsight. . . .Where have you been? Missed you. . . .Hope you are good out there?. . . . .

MyJoe:
However, these things do happen frequently in Nigeria and I have a personal experience of it. I still dream of Shola sometimes since that night in January 4 2002.
This is the problem we have. There will be no investigation of this and soon everyone will forget it. But let me add that "uncultured barbarism" is not the exclusive property of our security agencies. Barbarism in our police force can only be a reflection, perhaps, a multiplication or amplification, of that in the general societies. Some of those decrying these pictures here may have participated in or watched with smiles on their faces as mobs set alight some hapless soul suspected of stealing used shoes in Yaba or Ketu. When Yusuf, the Boko Haram leader, was extrajudicially killed some people cheered on this forum. [b]It appears that we, the Nigerian society, are losing our sense of humanity. [/b]Once we allow the police to get away with killing suspected robbers, no matter how notorious the individual, that institutionalises a system that elevates jungle justice to state machinery. And there is no knowing that it can't get round to us.

I could not have said it better. . . . .Nice one. . . .

sinequanon:
The Higgs boson is not the only type of boson. So one should not make any scientific conclusion about the existence of bosons from the above. However, scientists do claim to have observed other types of boson.

OK, I now understand the point you are trying to make. . . .OK, I believe in the bosons as an explanation for theoritical physics and If I disbelieve in the postulations of physicist about it and what it entails I bet their will be experiments that will be set up to show me how it has been theorized and how it is expected to function. . . .So yes I believe in bosons and I do NOT believe in it based on faith. . . . .

In what sense are you a scientist, at all?

I am not a scientist, I know and understand science and how some of its process functions but that does not make me a scientist. . . . .

sinequanon:
Answer my questions, first, then the discussion can flow properly. Once you have done that I will address the above.

1. Are you a layman, or a scientist.

I will not call myself a lay man, but I am not a scientist in the real sense even though I understand how some of the process functions. . . . .

2. Do you believe in bosons and, if so, how did you come to believe in them?

Do I believe in boson as something that exists? No, why because it is a hypothetical massive scalar elementary particle predicted to exist by the Standard Model in particle physics as defined by wikipedia. . . . .

Please stop the evasion. It is only a discussion.

Sorry if I came across as evasive. . . . .

dexmond:
[size=16pt]Who are the enemies of Islam?[/size]

Any body that does not believe in the lies of mohammed. . . .

sinequanon:
You have evaded my question about whether or not you have observed a boson and how you come to believe in them (if you do at all). You have also attempted to pre-empt my line of discussion by reading in your own assumptions. This makes your reply vague and not necessarily relevant. I want to know what you think about bosons and how you come to think that way. I see no need for you to be generalising and hinting.

According to wikipedia "The Higgs boson is a hypothetical massive scalar elementary particle predicted to exist by the Standard Model in particle physics. At present there are no known fundamental scalar particles in nature. The existence of the particle is postulated as a means of resolving inconsistencies in current theoretical physics"

Does this definition tell you that bosons are things that exist in real life?. . . . .

Islam is the very antithesis of free western thought but its easy to get carried away. The Islamic population in most European countries is very small. However, it is also very easy to turn a blind eye to Islamic growth especially when we are told, the highest birth rates in Europe are Islamic, Europeans need to do something to check these people. . . . .Non moslems can NEVER and will NEVER be allowed to carry out such demonstrations in Majority Moslem countries. . . . .It is already difficult to criticise Islam, due to political correctness and threatening behaviour of the foot soldiers of allah. The religion of Peace has often taken to European streets, amply demonstrating the Glory of Islam. It is unwanted in age where rationality and reason should be at its highest. But banning minarets will not do it IMO it is an empty gesture. . . . .Muslims should be faced head on in Europe or they will end up eating the europeans alive. . . . .

Krayola:
Exhibit A: Religions just assert stuff, and try to bamboozle their way out of an explanation.

The philosophy of religon, IMO is "to understand I must believe in some deity and I must please it no matter what. This requires no questioning of said deity since doubt is not faith." Science is Observe and understand. Opinions mean nothing. . Religion and science are not equal forces of anything. Why do you think it took us up until just a few hundred years ago to really get started on one, while the other has existed and wreaked it's influence since practically the first modern brains?

Religion is the practice of just saying anything and then saying you believe in it. . . . .Or just saying something written in an old book that lots of other people profess. Is there any truth? All the popular religious texts have had a hell of a long time to provide it. Religion has not given people anything really IMO beside the warm cozy feeling that it offers. People created all the supposed fruits of the religion as well as the religion it's self.

Science on the other hand, has helped us understand what's out there and interpret and even modify it to help everyone (medical, mathematical and engineering knowledge for example).

There's not a whole lot of wisdom to be derived from beating 2000/3000 year old myths that were originally created out of ancient cultures and traditions IMO.

sinequanon:
OK. It's back to soundbites.

No it isnt. . . . .

How does a layman know if he has been indoctrinated?

A lay man does not need to know all he has to is to believe wht ever he has been conditioned to believe in without evidence to back it up. . . . .

Do you believe in bosons? Have you ever witnessed any bosons or have you simply accepted what you have been told?

Do you believe in Fermat's last theorem? Can you "prove" it, or do you simply accept it on faith?

You are bound to FAIL when you talk about science from this perpective. . . . .The philosophy of science is that you can postulate explanations which may be tested by observation and or experimentation or you can postulate explanations which may only be deduced to be correct but which have a high order of probability of being correct. If you demand hard evidence for everything, you can throw out most of what we think we know about astrophysics for example, . . . . Bring me a quark so I can look at it myself. Show me the skin colour of a diplodocus. Prove to me what exists beyond the event horizon. Evidence may eventually be forthcoming but until it is, a certain amount of interpolation - and even extrapolation has to do in its stead. . . . . .

I am not suggesting guesswork or the "it's only a theory" skeptical definition as used by the Witnesses etc; I am reminding you that deduction and probability are acceptable as reasonable evidence yet cannot be taken to be absolute certainties, Moreorover, science deals with models of reality and these are not always totally congruent. If they were, we would have a "theory of everything." Historically we saw scientists wrestling with wave/particle duality - two incompatible models within a historic thinking framework, but no longer as the two are easily reconcilable within contemporary thinking.

Religion attempts to handle some of this, but has no tools to objectively realize its philosophisings.Before experimentation, everyone accepted an Aristotolian explanation of the world around them - or they accepted a religious model. What is the difference? Both are unsubstantiated pronouncements and Aristotle was often completely, embarrassingly wrong - yet "science" was based on his thinking for nearly two thousand years.

Cross discipline dialogue is not only possible, it is essential. The Church of England and the Roman Catholic church for example has gradually but wholeheartedly embraced developing science, and its core has therefore largely evolved from a theist to a deist interpretation of divinity. I know some catholics ministers here in Finland who hold onto a theistic view of "creation, many of the bishopry is plainly agnostic, or even agno-atheist. I know of catholic here under say 70 who would give ANY credence to a literal reading of the bible. To take it as anything but allegory is as ludicrous to the average catholic member here in Finland is it would be to a card-carrying atheist.
The personal deity is gradually fading away, leaving deist background radiation. It is only a matter of time before the Church becomes a humanist congregation here.

sinequanon:
Your terminology is still not neutral, imo. Define "rational" and "proof" without reference to scientific method. And to whom do you refer with the word, "we"?

imo, you don't seem to be arguing that science stands apart from religion, but that it is has inconsistencies with other bodies of belief. This does not set science apart. Religions have inconsistencies with each other. If you put religion X to test against the teachings of religion Y -- which is similar to what you are doing against science -- you will find inconsistencies.

Science is questions to things that need answers. Religion is answers to things that need to be questioned.

Pastor AIO:
Please can you cite some references for this so that I can look at it a little bit closer.

Do I need to cite any reference to this? Christianity tells people that there is a God called Jesus who is 3 in one who is presently sitting at the rght hand of himself and preparing a wonderful place for those that accept the christian story to go and reside in when they die. . . . Do people accept this story based on any evidence at all or only because they have been indoctinated to believe in it? Islam tells people that there is this unknown and undescribable entity called allah that will give them uncountable virgins to have nimdless intimacy with when they die amidst rivers of wine that flow endlessly if they bow down and follow its teachings. . . .Do muslims believe in this because they have any evidence for it or because they have been indoctrinated?

I'm having a hard time thinking of a religion that claims to know everything. Can you help me?

Most religions at least the ones I am familiar with and practiced claim to know how the earth and the universe came about, how it will end, what wil happen to humans when they die and they position themselves as the "ultimate truth" unless if you want to deny the obvious. . . . .

European countries should be VERY concerned about Islam because of the following reasons. . . . .

1 Islam is more vulnerable than other religions to extremization and that is no lie.
2 One of the express teachings of Islam is to spread Islam to the whole world, through any mean necessary. In other words, the rest of us that do not agree with its teachings are the enemy end of story no long thing.
3 While the civilized world goes towards increased respect for human rights, and tolerance, Islam is stuck in its intolerant, brutal ways, with no apparent intention to get on board with the rest of civilization any time soon.
4 All too often, mosques and islamic schools are used as pulpits to spew hate and incite violence.
5 When even the so-called moderate Muslims are sympathetic of terrorist attacks and sharia law, one has to truly wonder if there is such a thing as a moderate Muslim

Failure of radical islam or actual islam?

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b77_1191114743
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=75e_1187503013
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=110_1191101925


1 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5c7_1191017509
2 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ad_1191019254
3 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0ae_1191019555
4 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=92e_1191019829
5 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2c2_1191020092
6 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=5eb_1191020378