₦airaland Forum

Bobbyaf:
If moral codes came via men's customs and traditions then how is it mankind's values are getting worse? Why are social values worsening rather than improving? I will tell you why.

What do you mean by our social values getting worse?. . . . read history books and tell me how our social values have gotten worse. . . 2000 years ago criminals were crucified an left for the vultures to come and feast on their dead bodies. . .now this mode of punishment is unaccptable even to criminals. . . slavery was conventional about 200 years ago now its not only unconventional but a crime. . .Infact tody we have such things and animal rights things that never existed about 2000 years ago. . . 2000 years ago people could invade a city unprovoked kill them off(including civilians) and take what belongs to them. . today this action will be considered a war crime. . .Integration between people of different tribes and race has never been at its peak. . . back in the day racism and tribalism was supported by all the various gods and the state it self. . . .

People tend to stifle their God-given consciences for the sake of doing wrong. There is no more wrong or right in society anymore, because everything has become situational. In other words each person in their own right determines what is right from wrong. In that way they have no God to account to.

If there is anything as "god given conscience" then why do parents spend a lot of time teaching their children the difference between right and wrong? Why not allow this "god given conscience" to teach them? There is nothing like god given conscience. . .humans are social creatures and rely heavily on each other for survival. it has been this way for many multiple thousands of years. . . . . in modern culture without nearly as many dangers outside our own population. . . . . it's difficult to see where this morality would come from, but hundreds of thousand of years of learned behavior is difficult to get rid of. . . . there technically is no moral authority except what a people imposes on themselves. . . . . .there is no god given morality. . morality MUST be learned. . . .

The theory of evolution with its diabolic positions have failed miserably. It started out advocating that life experienced gradual positive developments, and would continue doing so over time. Yet what we have come to see and expect based on the bible's prediction, is that humans are making a mockery of social values when they turn their backs on religion and God.

How are human's making a mockery of social values? have you read the old testament and seen how people were REALLY making a mockery of social values?. . .Most of their social values in the OT were based soley on self interest as a group. . .That is why you have them saying that theirgod told them to kill off others and take their land, rape their women, lie to them, kill their children etc. . .

The human mind is the most complex entity in the universe next to God's, and believe you me, only someone with a bigger mind than ours could have created it. The power of the mind could not have come about by itself and especially by chance as advocated by the pseudo science called evolution.

Have you ever experineced this god's mind that you talk about? How do you know that this god's mind is the only thing that is more complex than the human mind? have you ever experienced it or is this also part of you many many unsubstatianed claims?

noetic2:
Cool. . . . .I believe that we are now on the same page.

No we are on the same currency no be page. . .

The part of the story I dont understand is how this commandment constitutes a sacrifice?
They are to kill idolators and not to offer them as a sacrifice.

This is what the text says. . . "If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God."

Can't you read? or are you just playing dumb for jesus?

noetic2:
what?

Did the bible not say that jesus warned people not to call each others fools but when around calling people fools? Did the bible not say that jesus told people to have strong faith in god but when his time came to show his own faith in his god when he was about to be killed he cried and accused his god of forsaking him even though the bible says that was his mission on earth. . . ? Is that not hypocrisy . . .

noetic2:
1. was isaac killed?

No he wasn't. . .

2. did God ask for Jephter's sacrifice?

But he accepted it. . something that people like William Craig deny they say their god does not participate in the acceptance of dead human's as an offering. . . .

3. how does that verse constitute a sacrifice? . . . . , do u know what a sacrifice means?

You know exactly what the passage says but you will rather play dumb just to make your god look "good". . .The bible god told his chosen men to kill off all the people in an entire town including all animals and offer them unto him as a burnt offering. . what part of that story do you not understand?. . . .The point I am trying to make all along is that the bible it self refutes the arguments of apologist like willaim craig who says that other god's that accept human offering are bad. . .when his own yahweh requested for human's to be given unto him as burnt offering and accepted it. . . .

noetic2:
and u remember isaac was killed. . . . . .

He requested for Isaac to be offered unto him. . .

u are yet to prove that.

He accepted the offering of Jephthah's daughter as a burnt offfering. . .

how does the above constitute a sacrifice? do u know the meaning of a sacrifice?

This is what yahweh said. . .you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.". . . . .

It seems your delusion is making you see red when what is written down is white. . . .

noetic2:
since your parents were christians. . , .why did they not eat your flesh?

. . . .

noetic2:
I am sick of your ramblings mazaje. . .   .why dont u just define sin?

Hypocrisy is what is my definition of sin. . .saying one thing and doing another. . .telling people to do something that you yourself can not practice. . .

noetic2:
All I am doing is to attempt to make u access the story objectively.
I could as well have stated my case and ignored your points.

We can deduce that
a. God did NOT demand for a human sacrifice.
b. what happened was at the discretion of the father. . . . .  .his daughter also did not resist such.

He accepted human sacrifice no? Did the bible god not tell abraham to sacrifice his son unto him?. . .

So objectively . . .  .how does this event discredit God?

It discredits those like William Craig that say that their god is better than other gods that accept human sacrifice. . .the  OT god used to accept human sacrifice. . .

Lying is not allowed.

how is the above a human sacrifice?

How is this this lying? This is what the passage says. . ."If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock.  Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it.  Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God.  That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt.  Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction.  Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you."

What part of this story is hard for you to understand?. . . .This is what yahweh says,  kill every body in the town. . do not allow any thing that lives to survive(humans and animals) pile them up and sacrifice them as a burnt sacrifice to yahweh. . the warrior god. . .

noetic2:
can u start by defining a sin? what do u understand by sin?

More delusions. . .was jesus not a hypocrite according to the stories written about him. . he told people not to call each other fools but went about calling people fools. . .he could not even practice what he was preaching accoring to the story. . .

Ogaga4Luv:
[size=13pt]Vanitty:

You better do. If you like squeeze your mouth to your ear. I have my words and remain on my ground. Why are you shy or something like you get scared off whenever you plan to use your brain?. please i strongly need to Convince you to care about learning new things.

God is a Big time Shame in Human race and i guest he/she wont lead you to double, i mean Tripple Vanity just like your user ID?. Anyway. . .you better think dear believer before time run out.

Bonne Chance. . . [/size]

Are you not a satanist? is your own myth better than the god myth

noetic2:
Rubbish!!!. . . .were your parents not christians?

What is this

noetic2:
did God request for a human sacrifice?

Your dishonesty is ridiculous. . .first you asked if the girl was killed. . .when I showed you, are now changing tone by asking if yahweh asked for a human sacrifice. . .Yahweh did not ask for a human sacrifice according to the story but he accepted it. . . .

He asked for human sacrifice in other parts of the bible. . .

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

Doesn't it bother you that in the bible light is created before the stars and the sun ? Doesn't it bother you that in the bible the plants are created before the sun ? Where did the light come from ?

The light came from yahweh's eyes. . .

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=325310.msg4580625#msg4580625 date=1253469007]Samuel was not promised as a burnt offering. . . . Was he?[/quote]I tire ohhh. . . .This guys will not want to accept what is written in their bible. . .

noetic2:
why did your parents not eat your flesh?

Because they are not barbaric like your imaginary and warrior god. . .

noetic2:
your dogmatic bias is also sickening. . . ,  .  .was samuel not offered to God? was he killed?

Comparing apples to oranges is what you are doing here. . .you apologetic stinks. . .

This is what the guy said. . ."If you give the Ammonites into my hands, 31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and[b] I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.[/b]" . . . . The bible god according to the story gave him victory over his enemies. . and he made a vow to sacrifice where ever comes out of his house[b] as a burnt offering[/b] unto yahweh. . . . .

When Jephthah returned to his home in Mizpah, who should come out to meet him but his daughter, dancing to the sound of tambourines! She was an only child. Except for her he had neither son nor daughter. 35 When he saw her, he tore his clothes and cried, "Oh! My daughter! You have made me miserable and wretched, because I have made a vow to the LORD that I cannot break." . . . .and what was the vow he can not break? to sacrifice whatever comes out of his house as a burnt offering unto yahweh. . . . .The story then says that after the two months, she returned to her father and[b] he did to her as he had vowed [/b]. . What was his vow? To sacrifice what ever comes out of his house to yahweh as a burnt offering. . . What part of this story do you not understand?. . .

Samuel was not offered unto yahweh to be sacrificed as a burnt offering was he?. . . Your apologetic reeks of pure delusion. . .   . . .And this is the same guy that goes around haranguing the moslems for not accepting the fact that mohammed was a pedophile when he refuses to accept that his own yahweh once accepted human sacrifice. . .

noetic2:
that was decreed for the enemies of God. . . .are u His enemy?

More BS . . even the allah you guys love to hate does not make people eat each others flesh as punishment in the koran. . .If this verse were in the koran I know you will be flashing it around showing the moslems what a babaric monster they worship. . . but since its in the bible you are trying to make light of it by saying they are your gods enemies. . .why are they his enemies because of unbelief? . . .delusion at its best. . .

noetic2:
did God request for her as a sacrifice? was she killed?

Your dishonesty is sickening. . . didn't you read where it says that she went and wept with her friends and where it says her father did to her as he had vowed(sacrifice her unto yahew)?. . . .

At the LORD's command, a man of God from Judah went to Bethel, and he arrived there just as Jeroboam was approaching the altar to offer a sacrifice. Then at the LORD's command, he shouted, "O altar, altar! This is what the LORD says: A child named Josiah will be born into the dynasty of David. On you he will sacrifice the priests from the pagan shrines who come here to burn incense, and human bones will be burned on you." (1 Kings 13:1-2)



He [Josiah] executed the priests of the pagan shrines on their own altars, and he burned human bones on the altars to desecrate them. Finally, he returned to Jerusalem. King Josiah then issued this order to all the people: "You must celebrate the Passover to the LORD your God, as it is written in the Book of the Covenant." There had not been a Passover celebration like that since the time when the judges ruled in Israel, throughout all the years of the kings of Israel and Judah. This Passover was celebrated to the LORD in Jerusalem during the eighteenth year of King Josiah's reign. Josiah also exterminated the mediums and psychics, the household gods, and every other kind of idol worship, both in Jerusalem and throughout the land of Judah. He did this in obedience to all the laws written in the scroll that Hilkiah the priest had found in the LORD's Temple. Never before had there been a king like Josiah, who turned to the LORD with all his heart and soul and strength, obeying all the laws of Moses. And there has never been a king like him since. (2 Kings 23:20-25 )

Deep Sight:
Mazaje please my memory is failing me, can you be so kind as to assist to point out where in the Bible God requests human sacrifices.

"Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19)

noetic2:
He was sinless. . . . ,
no guile was found in Him

He NEVER contradicted Himself.


He as God came in human form. . . . . . . Jesus is God
.

If Hippocracy is a sin then jesus commited a sin. . . he admonished people never to call each other fools because they are in danger of hell fire but called people around him fools so many times. . . .Jesus also taught that people should not be afraid of those that kill the body yet according to the bible he was always running for his life and sinking in the shadows when people tried to kill him. . . .

Jesus claimed he loved his neighbors yet he called the gentiles dogs and warned his disciples not to go near their towns and teach them the gospels or warn them about the kingdom of god that was at hand according to the biblical stories. . . . Jesus lied at his hearing when he said that he had always taught in the synagogues and in the temple and has never spoken in secret, there are other bible verses where he teaches in other places other the temple and teaches in secret. . . .

Jesus told people to have faith in god all the time but when his time came to demonstrate his faith in god(himself) when he was to be crucified on the cross he cried and accused god of forsaken him. . . If jesus knew he was the son of god then he would have shown more faith in his father and the alleged mission he was sent by his father to accomplish instead of crying and accusing god of forsaken him, he openly displayed his lack of faith in his father something he thought others to do all the time. . . Jesus scorned hypocrisy (Matthew 23:13-33) and was called the only sinless and perfect man yet an objective review of the life of Jesus as presented by the bible shows Jesus to be nothing less than a hypocrite himself who sometimes did not pratice what he preached. . . . .

noetic2:
do u actually think he was intelligent considering the many errors in the koran?

As if your own bible does not contain many errors. . . .Any way mohammed was a very clever guy like the founders of all religions. . .(Paul, jesus, buddah,moses, james smith etc) he used an already establish religion walked through the system and created his own version and ascribed it to his own god just the way all the others before him did. . nothing new there. . .

The way people lie to themselves to defend this fictional deity of theirs is completely absurd. . .William Craig talks about people deserving to die because they worship false gods and engage in brutal rituals like human sacrifice . . .Has he ever read the bible at all? Did the bible god not tell his chosen men to burn and entire city down and sacrifice its entire inhabitants unto him as a brunt offering? there are other parts of the bible where the bible god accepts human sacrifice just like the other gods he is maligning. . . . .  What are these dishonest fools saying? . . . .

I have seen Willam Criag debate moslems. . .He insist that allah lacks compassion and is a violent god. . but when the moslems quote verses from the bible that make allah look better than the bible god. . .passages where allah tells moslems not to kill children because children are always innocent. . . while the bible god commands his people to kill every body including children and sacrifice them as brunt offering unto him. . .William Craig will say things like. . .Yahweh knows that if they children are allowed to grow they are going to undermine Israel's existence. . . . . . . So William Craig's god is afraid of babies . . . . Pathetic. . . . . .

This is the same thing moslems do. . .accept that mohammed was a pedophile and move on. . .They will look for all the excuses in the world to justify their delusions and say that mohammed did they right thing. . . .Christians accept that the god character talked about in the OT is completely evil and move on. . .they won't they will look for all the excuses in the world to say that their as portrayed in the old testament is good. . . forgetting that the god of the old testament even admitted that he is evil and apologized for his evil deeds. . . . . . .deluded people. . .

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=323189.msg4566091#msg4566091 date=1253255476]This is absolutely false.
In the west they've got a charity commission that monitors the finances of churches and NGO's to make sure money isn't used inappropriately by theiving pastors. Matthew Ashimolowo would testify to that. . . .[/quote]Church financial accountability and monitoring happens only in europe where christianity is almost becoming a relic of the past. . .but it is not the same in the USA. . . .

KAG:
I disagree. From what I understand, the creation accounts were originally written and presented in a poetic form that inclines one to read them as a mythos created to challenge the creation accounts (i.e. also allegories) of the Jews neighbours. The focus of the Genesis myths weren't to give an historical account but to edify the god(s) of the Israelites or whatever they were at the time. They were often read as in that way.

I have seen so may rabbi's say this. . .they even laugh at people that say it is supposed to be taken literally. . . .But I still disagree with their position based on the fact that so many people believe in its literal translation. . .

kolaxy:
@ Deep Sight,

Honestly I'm surprised/amazed at the way you interpreted the creation above.[b]Honestly,I cant add or remove anything to that as a christian but that's my own submission.[/b]Thanks.Jesus loves you

Do you believe in the creation story becauise it is true factual and accurate or do you believe it because you want it to be the truth?. . . .

tundejayz:
ha ha i am small god ha ha ha ha

Nice to know. . . .

tundejayz:
you need deliverance ,lol

More mythical dogma. . . next. . . .

KAG:
Wait, so you're saying it's okay to have sex with an eight years old or even five year old (actually younger than five, considering she gave birth at five) as long as she's had her period? You really don't see anything wrong with that concept? This is your argument for Islam?

There is no lie people will not through around to protect their ridiculous delusions. . . .

tundejayz:
athesim is not the best religion after christian,you can try being a muslim,hindusm or other religions,you can even choose satanism .look come to RCCG just opposite kingstone joe,my pastor has all answers to your question,you better stop all of this except you want to die soon and i am not jokin ,do you have the right to question God ?you just think you are smart and  tough but you are wrong,

Thanks for letting us know that fear in imaginary myths is what rules your life. . next. . .

KAG:
You're reading the story wrong. It's meant to be an allegory.

That is what mordern day jews and christians say. . but I don't think that's what the people that wrote it meant. . .The people that wrote it never meant for it to be an allegory. . .there are still many christians and jews that still believe in its literal translation. . .