₦airaland Forum

wirinet:
I am almost certain that UFO's cannot scientifically exist, but life on another planet in one of the zillions of solar systems out there is very probable.

This has been my argument all along. . .

Purist:
Sorry to digress, but mazaje. . .

Your argument makes sense.   I read your other thread about why you left christianity, your concerns appear genuine to me, though I think your reasons for deciding to disbelieve in the existence of God are not good enough.

The ONLY evidence for the existence of any god that I have been provided with are religious scriptures. . .Christians say that if you want to know who their god is, hear his voice, know his heart then read the bible. . . Same with moslems. . .That is the only evidence they have to show for the existence of their various gods. . .If the bible can be shown to be wrong(which it has) with regards to history, science, morals, and things that can be verifiable then why believe in when it comes to things that you can not verify like life after death and some of its claims of a mythical figure loving you. . . If the koran can(Which it has) be shown to be false with regards to history, moral, science etc why then believe it when it comes o thing that ou also can not verify like people being slaves of a mythical being, heaven, hell etc?. . . .

Concerning your posts here, I want to believe you are a rational thinker (or freethinker, as most atheists like to put it).  So, I'll like to know. . . have you ever thought of it from this angle, that Science only explains the effect of things that were caused by the supernatural, and only gives empirical evidence of the cause as seen by we mortal beings?   Now, this not about the God of the bible or koran, since it appears you have a big problem with both of them.  It's about the existence of some Supernatural Cause/Supreme Being, and for the sake of this argument, let's call that - God.

What exactly is the supernatural? invoking god and saying god did it has NEVER and will never help mankind solve any of his problem. . . . What really is the supernatural?. . . .Disease, hurricanes, earthquakes, mudslides were all thought to be supernatural events. . .Now we know that they are not. . . .diseases are caused by mindless micro organisms. . .hurricanes and earthquakes are also caused by mindless forces of nature. . . .What people have been tagging as the supernatural has being shown to be natural forces. . . .

davidylan:
Absolute hogwash! Even Christ was denied by HIS OWN PEOPLE, beaten, spat on and finally crucified on the cross . . . so racism is God's fault? Did not the same bible you claimed to have read tell you that you will suffer for His sake? Why is that a surprise? Did the bible anywhere promise you a problem-free ride the minute you became a christian?

Jesus was a racist. . . he called the gentiles dogs and warned his disciples not to preach to them about the coming kingdom of god. . .There is no other advocate of racism like the OT god who you guys believe is the same jesus any way. . . .

More nonsense. The same God watched as His own Son was crucified on the cross . . . one would have expected all the disciples to turn to atheism like you too right? What did you expect God to do? Strike those pastors down with death? Did you not read in that bible you carried for yrs "let them both grow until the harvest"?

Did the bible god not strike down people who used his name to cheat. . .Remember the story of Ananias and his wife? Why is it that the bible god expresses his wrath ONLY on the pages of the bible and no where else?. . is it because that he exist only in the imaginations of those who subscribe to the myth?. . . . .

Did the same bible not warn you that the wicked would indeed prosper at the end time?

Who really are the wicked?. . .Have you read the books of psalm, Jeremiah, Ecclesiastes etc. . books that were alleged to have been written long before jesus where the authors of the book were complaining to their god that the wicked are prospering and seeking glory in themselves instead of yahweh?. . .What exactly is this end time you guys keep talking about?. . .Did paul Not advice people not to get married because the end time is already around?. . .

Absurd.

Is the NT not riddle with contradictions, historical errors and lies?. . .Is the OT god not worse than the allah you love to hate? Is killing people and sacrificing them as burnt offering to yahweh sound like justice to you?

thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not covet their neighbors stuff, thou shalt not commit fornication, thou shalt not steal - all laws by iron age ignoramuses even though your common law today is heavily dependent on the 10 commandments?

This is false because people living before the 10 commandments were ever written down knew that it was wrong to steal, murder, tell lies and sleep with other people's wives. . .Stoning to death people for working on the sabbath will get you sentenced to life in imprisonment if you practice it today and that is also part of the 10 commandments. . .

This guy is a joke.

you expected ALL THAT to be accomodated in 10 COMMANDMENTS? How long do you think the commandments would be then? 1000 pages long?

If you bothered to read the bible thoroughly as you earlier lied to have done you'd know that the bible does talk about slavery, womens and human rights . . . try finding out what jubilee means in the bible mister.

Actually the bible talks about branding of slaves. . .sexism and other things that our present societies frown at. . . like women not speaking in public. . . .

This is purely daft. If there was no evil there would be no good either. you need the existence of one to understand the nature of the other. If evil didnt exist then righteousness, mercy, love, kindness, long suffering would be meaningless terms.

Do you guys read your bible at all? does your bible god claim that he is responsible for evil that happen?

(Amos 3:6) - "Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done it?"

(Isaiah 45:7,) - "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Another coward who can only bleat about "coming to the light" on the internet with a fake name. If truly you KNOW that God doesnt exist then educate your family and friends.

Hitting you head on the floor and shouting the loudest will not tun the myth you subscribe to into the truth. . .your god exist only in your deluded imaginations. . .

The problem is your nature and craving for sin is simply rebelling.

What is sin?. . . that you chose to buy into that delusion does not make it true. . .

noetic2:
2. what are the contradictions in the NT?

Have you ever read the NT?. . . I can't believe you are asking these questions. . .it is just like asking if the grass is green. . .

huxley:
No, we did not establish that Christian transformation is positive while islamic is not. Take for instance this injunction from Jesus:

"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)


Do you live your life by this life-transforming injunction of Jesus? If not why not?


I put it to you that you do not follow most of the injunction of Jesus? Which of these do you, as a person with a relationship with Jesus, do you follow:

1) Take no care of tomorrow

2) Turn the other cheek

3) If a man takes your property, give him something else

4) Abandon your family for the sake of Jesus

5) Do not defend yourself against an aggressor.

How could you call yourself a Christian and claim a relationship with him when you do not keep some of his core teachings?

We all rot in hell. . . . But the truth is that atheist are right. . . .we KNOW that all the god's of man made religions are man made. . . .

lightwalk:
^Mazaje: You are right about atheism not being a religion, come to view it from your point. But I don't believe atheism exists. You know why, in Nigeria itself, you can get plenty of proofs to believe that demons, witches and dibias exist. In the ibo region, there are many popular places known for this spiritual practices of a thing. Maybe you should reconsider your stand on that. The kind of atheism I was talking about was the belief in the existence of a superior being without necessarily belonging to any sect or religion. I have personally witnessed some experiences, so I know what am talking about. In fact, I find it hard to believe that some do still not believe that demons exist. Doing that only gives them more powers, because when they come, the power of fear they have over you is going to be enormous. Better tread carefully

All these demons, witches, wizards are myths. . .People give those imaginary beings that are non existent power and the become "real" to them. . .one thing I have noticed with the human society is that when you repeat a lie several times it later becomes the truth. . .I have once eaten some fruit from a tree that was considered sacred and meant only for the gods, most people thought I will not last a day for eating from the tree an fighting the local witch doctor in charge of the shrine, who promised that I will never return to Europe ever again and that he will turn me into a frog. . . we live in a society where people are too afraid and believe in too much nonsense. . people in Nigeria still believe that humans can turn each other into animals. . .some believe that if you bring human skull or drink human blood you will become rich. . .others believe that if you drink some magic portion you will have the ability to deflect bullets etc. . .People still believe in all these myths but the truth is that they have been tried and tested and they have failed and will continue to fail because they are ridiculous myth. . .Look at the developed world. . . .Were people are very enlightened and educated they don't believe in all these myths like we do they?

noetic2:
I am cool. . .hope u are doing good? . . . looking forward to more insights from u. . . .though we disagree, I cannot dispute your attempts to be rational and objective.

Neotic my man. . . 

lightwalk:
@Mazaje: Arr you suggesting that religions care only about after life. I don't think so, In fact certain ones appear not to even give the least care about after life by giving it a very slight recognition. I don't entirely believe in atheism if you are one because it is also a from of religion constituted out of confusion where an individual decides that the best religion is that of his initiative. He.she finds it hard to accept da mysteries that hav been explored by many others. I think the wisest thing to do is not to be against anyone. It's better to join them if you can't beat them. I hope someone will come and confirm the truth of this thread. It really makes sense nicky but skydancer is right to some extent only that he is again defending with the bible.

Most religions care MORE about the after life something they know NOTHING about. . .  claiming that this life is temporary. . .They create imaginary problems they have absolute NO evidence for and tell their adherents that they alone have the solution. . . They rely soley on fear and guilt to put people in line and make them adhere to their mythical claims. . . Example Islam uses this wried Idea that most women are going to end up in hell for some very odd reasons and for that women need to submit them selves more to the religion so that they can be forgiven. . .

Athesim is NOT a religion it is the rejection of all religions based on the FACT that they all have NO evidence at all for most of their ridiculous an mythical claims. . .Example I do not believe in demons, satan, juju, witches etc. . .and since I dropped all those beliefs I truly realized that they are nothing but myths. . .I go to places where people are always afraid of going and I do thing people are always afraid of doing because of existing myths of witches, wizards, demons, angels etc and nothing has ever happened to me. . .Religion sells one thing. . It relies of people's fear. . .create imaginary scenarios where the people are  forced to look guilty or accept the artificial guilt that they religion creates and then each religionclaims that it alone has the solution to save people from the imaginary guilt it has created and sold. . . .  .

There is no need joining any body. . . truth is better than delusion that is all I know. . . . .

noetic2:
that OP was so long. . ,  . . . .what was it all about?

Read it and stop asking silly questions. . . . . .How body, hope you are good?

nickybayo:
of course there will be an answer for every questions
another annoying thing about religions

Pretending to know what you have NO idea about is the life blood of religion. . . . All religions offer people lies and false hope. . . They find a way of making you feel guilty and then claiming to have a solution to the imaginary guilt they have instilled in you. . .They claim to know what will happen to you when you die but they never seem to bother about the before life which is very telling. . . the reason is because they know nothing about it they only want to sell what ever they have based on fear and imaginary guilt they always create, the sell fear by creating imaginary beings and lying to people that these imaginary beings are after them and their happiness, success etc. . .They tell you that you have offended some imaginary deity and hence their way alone will save you from his/her imaginary wrath. . .They just love to pretend about something they can never possibly know. . .as I aforementioned none of you tend to give a rats ass about before life. It would seam they would work more on that whole before life thing to ensure people are not born into opposing views homes. . . but they don't they just create imaginary problems and then offer imaginary solutions. . . that have NO place in reality. . . . .All religions are created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few. . .They offer imaginary claims that have NO ground in reality and are always crying for immunity from criticism. . .

noetic2:
what EXACTLY are u talking about?

u have failed to define "sin" or "morals" . . . .sin is the transgression of the law.
So once there is no law. . . .there is subsequently no sin. There is no reason to believe that the israelites had a moral code that pre-dates the OT commandments.
if u believe there was. . .what stops u from producing it?

You are now sounding like a broken record and you are not making any sense. . .the OT is the history of the jews so how can they have any moral code that predates their history

God definitely preceded the laws. . . . .do u have any reason to believe otherwise?

Any evidence for this claims. . .the torah is not the oldest religious scripture on earth hope you know?. . . .

noetic2:
do u kwow how IGNORANT science is?

. . .I laugh in greek. . .religious dogma is a very bad thing. . .Thanks to science we know that disease are caused by micro organisms not by demons and evil spirits as your ignorant bible writers said. . .

noetic2:
u are being dishonest here. . . . . how do people experiment convictions? where do they get these convictions from?

Through trials and error. . 200 years ago some people in Nigeria thought that it was OK to kill their twin babies but they were convinced by others to stop it. . .Jews that believe in the laws of the old testament today do NOT follow and abide by most of what it says because they have been convinced that those laws are not good for the betterment of their society as a whole. . .They can't go around practicing racism of killing their disobedient children. . .Slavery was abolished in most parts of the world because people were convinced that it wasn't for the good of every body. . .integration is now accepted amongst people of different race because they know its for the betterment of the society as a whole. .

Genesis 20 records God appearing to a different king (who feared God) about the dangers of taking Abraham's wife.
The Edomites . . . . .who are descendants of Esau. . . .who have no inheritance with the israelites are also a God fearing people who serve the Lord. . . .they like other groups of people have their own moral codes. . . .where do these morals come from? they predate the 10 commandments, . but they all come from convictions. . . . GOD.

Where is your evidence of god giving people morals? You have no evidence of god giving any body morals. . .why do parents bother to teach their children the difference between right and wrong if any thing as go given morals exist? Why not let their god given morals teach them the difference between right and wrong? Why does right and wrong differ from society to society and from religion to religion? Where is your evidence to show that god gave people rules to follow, you have no evidence for this all you have are people writing things down and ascribing them to their various gods. . . You dishonestly refused to answer my question. . .1000 years ago there was nothing like Christianity in Nigeria are you trying to tell me that our ancestors do not know that lying was wrong, stealing was wrong, killing was wrong, sleeping with another man's wife was wrong?

u are afraid that the inconsistencies of your postulations would be revealed. . . .take the bold step and define morality.

Morality means conformity to the rules of right conduct. . .Now its up to your to provide evidence to show how your god makes people to conform to the rules of right conduct. . .
This is a LIE and a FRAUD.

1. The manifestation of Jesus does NOT pre-date the OT commandments.

2. Confucious stole his theory from the CONVICTIONS. . . . . .you are yet to establish another human means of obtaining deeper convictions other than religion.

Conviction means a fixed or firm belief. . . so how did Confucious steal his theory from a fixed or firm belief? Where is your evidence for this . . .Do you know that various religions have their various morals standards that are sometimes mutually exclusive to each other?. . . .The difference of different religious beliefs with each with their different moral standard shows that morality comes as a result of experimentation. . .If their is anything as god given morality all men will share the same moral standard and abide by the same moral rule but that is not the case. . .people learn or adopt their moral standard from others while most learn their through experimentation. . .accepting what will lead to the better survival of the society as a whole and discarding what will lead to the destruction of the society. . . .

3. you were formerly a christian. , .all u did was to edit the gospel and take up what u like out of it. . . . . your guiding principle is STOLEN from christianity.

Are christians the ONLY moral people in the world you are now sounding like a little child. . .I have been to Thailand and I have seen people(Adults who are over 40) who have never heard the name Jesus in their lives but they are moral people and they all know that it is good to do unto your self as you will like others to do unto you. . .They do NOT know what the gospels are they have NEVER heard the name jesus in their entire lives but they know that stealing, lying, murder, rape and sleeping with another man's wife is wrong. . .If morality comes from god then there should be some evidence to show that christians are more moral than non christians but so far there is NONE. . .Christians are NOT more moral than non christains. . . .

huxley:
Civil Engineering & Mathematical Analysis/Modelling at Manchester University.  I started a diploma course in Astronomy/Cosmology last year at Manchester Univ, but have had to shelf it due to family and work engagements?  I have still got the books which I read from time to time.

Interesting. . .I just started studying astronomy and cosmology about 5 months ago. . .when I visited the European space agency in Holland and looked through their telescopes(What an incredible experience that was for me). . . . Astronomy is the sh*t. . . .

monopolist:
The god of this world has blinded their eyes so that they can not see the light of the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST.

A fool says in his heart, there is no God.

The LORD is Laughing you to derision and will soon break you into pieces like a potters vessel.

Be ye not mockers, lest your bounds be made strong and ye be destroyed by the destruction determined upon the earth

And the LORD will bruise satan shortly under the sole of my feet

Let every soul be subject to the higher power for there is no power but of God. The power that be are ordained of God.

REPENT NOW. RETURN FROM YOUR WAYS.

Broad is the way that lead to destruction.

He that depart from the way of understanding shall abide in the congregation of the dead.

Stop following a counterfeiter.

JESUS IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

God our Father in Heaven is the father of all Spirits.

He that is from above is above all

Come to Jesus Christ all you that labour and are heavy ladden and HE will give you rest

Know the TRUTH and it will make you free.

Believers in Jesus Christ are commanders over all other spirits

Yes jesus is lord. . next. . . .

huxley:
Are you currently at university or are you in employment?  What is you line of study/work?

I am employed. . .I have a degree in geology and mining back in Nigeria came to Europe and had another degree in software engineering and information management. . .I also Have an MBA in engineering management. . . .What about you?. . . .

@ huxley

What was your major in university?. . . .

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=324752.msg4585788#msg4585788 date=1253549983]since you people are stuck in 11th century thinking, or whatever premedieval/premordial beliefs you subscribe to- I'm pointing out the fact that light itself had a beginning, and it didnt start with the sun. Genesis clearly shows this.

If you cant see it, too bad.

Huxley I dont have your time today. Just post whatever you feel like posting.[/quote]Is it because he has made salient points that you know is true. . , .

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=324752.msg4585768#msg4585768 date=1253549705]even a quick cursory glance at Gen1 :1 shows you some basic facts.


heavens is plural. What does that tell you? Is it referring to the sky or something larger?[/quote]Actually this depends on which bible translation you are using. . the King james version says heaven not heavens. . but that is not the case. . . .

look, read with your eyes open. I cant be explaining all this basic stuff all the time.

I am reading with my eyes open. . .

The earth was formless and void. Do you know the meaning of formless? The earth you know today- isnt it round and with a definite shape?

There is no where in the bible where it says that the bible god gave the earth form or shape. . .It talks about the bible god creating the heaven/heavens in the beginning and then goes on to give a detailed and elaborate account of how the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days and in that detailed and elaborate account the sun and stars were not created until the 4th day. . .plants were even created on the 3rd day before the stars and the sun. . . How then do you reconcile this account with modern cosmology which says(with evidence) that stars are created before the planets that orbit around them. . .The bible Clearly says that the earth with plants in it was already in existence before the sun and the stars were created because the sun and the stars were created on the 4th day of creation. . . .What part of it do you not understand?

huxley:
OK, you think the Genesis cosmology is in accord with modern day cosmology?  Let's examine the Genesis narrative:

In Genesis, the Sun was not  created until the 4 day; if this is true then you have to explain the following:

1)   The concept of day/night does NOT make sense except in the light (pun intended) of a source of light which periodically bathes the earth.  If there was no Sun, our source of light, then there would never have been a day nor a night.  So talking of day/night makes no sense in the absense of the sun.

2)   The Sun is not only the source of light, it is also the centre of attraction of all planets in the solar system.  If god created the earth before the sun, this would suggest that the earth was never in an orbit but must have been travelling in a non-orbitary trajectory, or was stationary.  As far as I know, there is no modern cosmological theory that accounts for stationary planets, or for planets forming prior to their stars.  So Genesis violates the most basic of modern cosmology.

For you to attempt to reconcile Genesis with modern cosmology/astronomy with realising these issues is either gross ignorance on your part, or willful ignorance, or sheer dishonesty.

I couldn't have said it any better. . . .

Deep Sight:
I have said severally that i am neither christian nor muslim. But i do belive in God.

The definition of the God that i believe in, since you ask is: the uncaused cause of all existence, one clearly manifesting attributes of intelligence, passion, beauty and purpose. A Divine Being without Form containing all the components of space, time and eternity.

. . .Interesting. . .

[quote author=tpia. link=topic=324752.msg4585662#msg4585662 date=1253548385]kindly reread the posts in question but this time with your eyes open.

We've gone over this before but your pride wont let you reason.[/quote]Which pride exactly are you talking about. . .

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
Gen1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.
Gen1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water."
Gen1:7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. . . . . ,  . . .Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Gen 1:17  God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day.

According to the 6 day creation account the earth was already in existence before the biblegod created the stars and the sun on the 4th day. . .why then  are you comparing this account to the big bang. . . I am not saying that the big bang is true but they are NOT the same thing because the two accounts are different. . .The big bang lays more emphasis on the creation of the universe as a whole. . the creation account in genesis talks about the creation of the earth and talks very little about the creation of the stars. . it does not even talk about the creation of other planets and other planetary bodies. . .

@tpia

Do you understand what you are saying or trying to illustrate? You are just comparing apples to oranges. . . The bible talks about the creation of the earth before the creation of other things in the universe. . .according to the bible god created the earth first before creating any other thing. . .Even the big bang model you are trying to use to buttress your point does NOT agree with this. . .  

Your pictures show that stars are first created before planets. . .the bible says that the earth was first created before the sun and the stars. . .

noetic2:
I agree to the bold part. This illustrates my point that what we inherently called morality today is a function of convictions. . . . . .these convictions are traceable to religion. . .in this context God. u just stated above that the jews lived a barbaric life until the commandments came. . . . . I agree.

Were the jews killing each other and sleeping with each others wives with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down? Do you have any evidence to show that the jews were living like barbarians(Kiling each other, stealing from each other, raping each other, lying to each other with impunity before the 10 commandments were written down). Where is your evidence for this ridiculous claim? Did the 10 commandments stop Moses and his foot soldiers from killing others, raping them, stealing from them and enslaving them?. . .

God's laws (convictions) has been a universal barometer for morality.

Which laws exactly. . .and where is your evidence for any god issuing out laws to people. . .Are allah's laws the same with yahweh's laws?. . .

Is this another BOKO HARAM?. . . .

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=326519.msg4585276#msg4585276 date=1253544166]Typical of modern day word of faith pentecostal bullshit, all shouting, huff puff and making rhymes like a rapper. . . . like that gives any credibility to their lies.[/quote]You have to give them credit for that. . .them sabi form rhymes no be small. . .anything to convince the flock. . .

noetic2:
as usual. . .u have made no sense. . , congrats.

Neotic you don get wife. . . . . .send me the invitation card when you guys decide to get married. . .

noetic2:
how?

People try things and select what is best for them and the survival of their societies as a whole. . .

punishments are irrelevant in this debate.
blah blah blah. . . ,  .

It is important. . .even thepresent day jews that believe in yahweh and in the laws of moses do NOT practice what is written in the Torah. . .That shows that their morality has evolved from that of their ancient ancestors. . .

1. God issued the 10 commandments and the evidences and proof for this abound.

Where is your evidence of  any god giving moses the 10 commandments?   . . . .Humans wrote the 10 commandment no? If you have any evidence of yahweh giving moses the 10 commandments beside what is written in the bible then let me know. . .

2. why not produce evidences that support your claim that people who pre-date the OT had laws similar to the ten commandments?

The Rigveda of Hinduism is proposed to have been composed between 1700–1100 BCE making it possibly the world's oldest religious text still in use it predates the OT and contains laws like that of the OT. . .You can google it up. . . .Are you trying to say that people that live in other parts of the world do not know and have punishment for stealing, killing, disobedience to parents, lying etc?. . . 1000 years ago there was nothing like Christianity in Nigeria are you trying to tell me that our ancestors do not know that lying was wrong, stealing was wrong, killing was wrong, sleeping with another man's wife was wrong?. . . .I can't even believe you are making this argument. . .

3. u goofed on the moses story. moses ran away because he killed an EGYPTIAN. if he had killed an hebrew man. . . .then he had commited no crime. proof?

When the bible god was telling his chosen men to rape and kill other people that do not believe in him was that not the same thing?. . . Was thou shall not commit murder not part of the 10 commandements when moses and his cronies were killing others as the bible says?. . . .This goes to show you that the egyptians knew that killing was wrong even though the egyptians believed that killing of others was not wrong but killing of their own people was wrong something the jews themselves believe in. . the jews believe that it was OK to kill others but not OK to kill fellow jews. . . javascript

D why are u afraid of defining morality? what are u afraid of?

Afraid of what exactly?. . .I am just trying to show you that i can also play you silly games better than you. . .

which culture promotes "Do unto others as u want to be done to u" ? . . . . . . . .your principle is STOLEN from the bible. . . . .u are not humble enough to admit it.

My surrounding culture. . .I base my morality on the following. .

Whether my action harms another, Common sense,  . .  Understanding what hurts me personally which leads me to avoid causing others to feel the same thing.  . . .  Agreeing with other people's standards of morality and accepting them as good if it leads to the betterment of our survival as a whole,  . .  Critical thinking, weighing things up and Context,  . .

Confucius (551 B.C.E. – 479 B.C.E) said "don't do to others that which you don't want done to you" very long before jesus was born. . .

noetic2:
I cant recollect the title of the thread where I debated this same issue with KAG. . . . . .it would have been easier, as u are simply repeating the points I rebuffed on that thread.
Right and wrong does not depend on cultural influence. dont mistake norms for moral values.
Right and wrongs are taught simply based on CONVICTIONS. . . . . .convictions are influenced by beliefs and many times by religion.
As at when slavery was the "right" thing to do. . . . . . .some found slavery inappropriate . . . .and that explains why some slave masters supported anti-slavery.
The human conscience is influenced by convictions. . . . . .to decide whats right or wrong. . . and not cultural tendacies like u postulate.

And the convictions came about as a mater of experimentation. . . .

u keep mixing the laws with the punishment.

Punishments to have changed so much and are not what they used to be in the past. . . people don't get stoned to death for disobeying their parents today. . .

I insist that billions of people in the world today are influenced by God's commandments in the OT. This commandments include Thou shall not kill, lie, fornicate or commit adultery et all. This laws have replaced barbaric cultural norms that have repeatedly influenced man.

This is a LIE. . . you have no evidence to show that any god issued any commandment to any body. . . all you have are people writing various laws and ascribing it to their god. . .People living in other societies LONG before moses was born knew that stealing was wrong, lying was wrong, having sex with another man's wife was wrong. . . . . Even moses had to run away according to the bible when he killed an egyptian, because he knew he will be punished according to the bible. . why because he knew that killing was wrong. . .this happened long before his god gave him the 10 commandment according to the biblical story. . .Thou shall not kill was NOT giving by any god. . . people knew that it was wrong to kill LONG before Moses was born. . . .

Do u know of any group of people that predates the OT who abided by laws similar to the 10 commandments?

The Egyptians, The Chinese, The Greeks, The Indians. . .etc. . . . .

what is SOMETHING that keeps on evolving. . . . . use legible words to define morality. . .what is morality?

If you want to know what morality means consult the dictionary. . . .

and where did u get this principle from?

From surrounding culture, my experience and common sense. . .

Does neotic have any evidence to show that moses wrote the book of genesis. . . ?

noetic2:
The part of the story I dont understand is how this commandment constitutes a sacrifice?
They are to kill idolators and not to offer them as a sacrifice.

This is a lie. . . what does sacrifice men?. . .From dictionary.com Sacrifice means "the offering of animal, plant, or human life or of some material possession to a deity, as in propitiation or homage.". . . .

Yahweh said that the people should be killed and be given as a burnt offering unto him. . .what part of the story o you not understand or are you just play dumb for jesus. . . you ridiculous and know nothing apologist . . . .

[quote author=Tudór link=topic=326453.msg4583191#msg4583191 date=1253519650]Don't you know it's deliberate on the part of the men of dog to keep their brainless sheep in the dark?
The other day at the UN that shameless fraudster adeboye declared the Internet to be the cause of africas and the world's problems saying the "enemy" uses it to invade our homes and mind. . . What the mess is that?
Imagine in this 21st century and technology age where the internet is one of the only hope for development and education for our backward continent -having being raped by bad leaders in collusion with these stupid religious leaders- a holy idiot can still declare the internet as satan!
Disturbingly some unwise sheep would heed to the call of their retarded pastor and stop using the internet further entrenching themselves in ignorance and pulling themselves to the stone age.


When the internet was being used to propagate his inclusion on newsweeks 50 person influential list he was happy and didn't remember it was evil. When senior pastor Erastus and ceceilia ibru were embezzling and wiring stolen money as tithe and offering to his account Daddy GOat forgot it was the devils wire. . .even when shopping for his luxury jet i'm sure he ran to the internet then all of a sudden when condemnation and questions started pouring in through the web, god revealed to him that the WWW was satans tool.

In the old days TB joshua, chris or oyedepo can go to Nepal or Mongolia for "envangelism" flex around in some hotel then return to nigeria claiming to have parted the seas, shook the earth, drove out lucifer and met the king or president who knelt to them to receive blessings and non would be the wiser because we can't verify. But today a simple google search would expose them for the liars they are. [b]Just like oyedepo who went to liberia and returned claiming both in pulpit and print that a "strongly demonic" general of satan "Queen of Sheeba" was disgraced, she packed her bags and literarily ran out of liberia because of the holy presence of him (oyedepo) in liberia to the relief of the christian brethren in liberia who were grateful to the man of god from nigeria for liberating the land. Meanwhile a simple google click reveals the queen of sheeba to be just a traditional leader who is traditionalist, visited liberia, completed her total itenerary and left peacefully on the day she had planned to leave. The period of her departure coincided with the arrival of the nigerian liar who decided to take advantage and feed the bullshit to his brainwashed flock. Going by my experiences of that place the goons would surely rise up, scream and make whooooah noises and whistle saying glory to god and praying fervently to tap into the anointing of "gods servant". . . Nairaland wasn't even spared the fabricated testimony and thanks to the www we were able to verify and expose oyedepos lie.[/b]

Adeboyes daft statement is the first of a barage of attacks from the pulpit on the internet (todays fountain of knowlegde and enlightenment) from these con men. . . .lets brace up for more.[/quote]Tudor . . whats up how body?. . . .How will they goons not declare the internet as the new weapon of the mythical satan knowing that is amongst the things that will be constantly used to expose their many many lies. . .