₦airaland Forum

Deep Sight:
@ Poster -

Thanks for your curiousity.

Without scolding you, i must say for the umpteenth time that i am amazed at the hollow interpretations that people attempt to ascribe to things.

Before proceeding, let me make clear that i am neither christian nor muslim, so do not accuse me of bias.

However the Creation Account in Genesis is a simple and and very probable account. Mind you, the sequence of creation as narrated therein is in consonance with evolutionary evidence of the sequence of development of living things, and is also a story that is repeated with staggering precision in thousands of native myths of ancient peoples scattered around the world, apparently one unrelated to the other.

The Account talks of days. It mentions days even before mentioning the sun or moon. This in itself makes it apparent that these are not days as understood by we earthlings.

I am not here to make any of the arguments that people have made - that it refers to 1000 years, 1 million years or any specific period for that matter.

What should be apparent to you is that the active personage within the account is said to be God, a supernatural being, and for this reason the days must refer to whatever HIS conception of days are within HIS own INCOMPREHENSIBLE Divine context. It could be that this refers to divine acts or anything else which we may not understand - but they are HIS days and not earthly days - that should be the key understanding.

So please don't talk about the sun and moon, that is just too simplistic a way to read text which is supposed to be primarily supernatural in nature.

If you ask me, that's a very poor reason to become an atheist. I do hope you are conversant with the correct definition of the word "Atheist" at all events. Because an Atheist is one who positively denies the existence of God, not one who merely finds religion, or any religion, to be incorrect.

Finally, if you read carefully Genesis 1:1 - 5, you may see signs that the first words refer to a spiritual creation and not this physical universe. The physical creation only kicks in from Verse 6. Check it out

You say you are not a christians or a jew but you are now taking time to explain the christian/jewish creation myth. . . Using Prahes like "His conception of days are within HIS own INCOMPREHENSIBLE Divine context."

You claim not to believe in christianity or judaism when then hold onto their creation myth? Does you own god not have his own creation story or must you hang unto the creation stories of other gods?

Noetic where are you?

^^^

This na young earth creationist time line abi na wetin. . .  . . . .The confusion never ends. . . .

Abuzola:
Aisha lived with the Prophet for 7 years. 17 verses of the Holy Quran were revealed because of her. Aisha happens to be a barren, it is forbidden to marry the widow of the Prophet therefore her barreness has turn Good.
The Holy Prophet told the muslim ummah 'go and learn half of this religion from Aisha' if Aisha wasn't married at 9 and stay for 7 years with the Prophet then who are we going to. Allahu akbar ! See strategy

What is wrong with you people? Is this how you guys explain away the fact that your prophet was a child molester?

Abuzola:
Kwarai da gaske

kar dai ka yaudari ne. . na shigo naija na zo wurin ka. . . ka kamani ka yan yan kani. . . .

Abuzola:
Z murda. Anything pleasant you can think of.your wish shall be granted

Abuzola Zaka bani mata idan na musulunta?

lagerwhenindoubt:
witches are always the weakest members of society, i beg to differ.

what you misconstrue is this, a lot of the poor in society are so deep in poverty that the shortest (easiest it seems) way to wealth is through demonic means. and when you think of it ,what other option is there. I do believe that witches exists and have practiced (with varying success) witch-craft, while we may live in modern times and claim ignorance of what has been in existence since the days of Babylonia.

I can tell you that many of the wealthy who live in the ikoyi environs are deep in this shit.

Do you have any evidence for this? Or are you still operating based on hear say stories?

skydancer:
Faith is a personal matter that most will do anything to defend. But why don't you provide evidence for your claims?

If faith is a personal matter as you have said then I see no reason why some should address members of their own faith as "you fools". . . .What exactly does faith have to do with facts and truths? Faith is neither a fact nor the truth. . . It is just what it is faith. . . .

[quote author=z-murda link=topic=324606.msg4557194#msg4557194 date=1253126012]dude common, this is like taking a cannon to a knife fight (apologies Jay Z). you don't have to call pips names before you make your point. i know you probably have had run-ins with him. [/quote]That is the ONLY language the guy understands go through his post and see the way he addresses others. . .

banom:
Noetic your man ?
are you a hypocrite like him?

I like the guy he comes across as an interesting person to me . . . . 

ttalks:
I don't believe the right word to use here is that he(david)/they "fight" with their fellow Christians.

The issue is: majority of people who claim to be Christians or "subscribe to that belief system" have the facts about it all messed up or twisted/upside down.
So, they need people to get them to see where they are faulty so as to get on the right track.

That is what David and noetic do as regards other "christians". I too do that; but maybe not as glaringly/pointedly/graphically as they do.

I have never seen you call anybody you are trying to correct a fool. . . . that is very great difference. . I have seen you had your own disagreements with those you believe are not christian enough. . but I have never seen you call any body a fool, a liar or insult any body's personality. . .davidylan does that all the time even to his fellow christians. . .Neotic is guilty of that as well. . .

Deep Sight:
Really? Is that what Christianity teaches?

Read Acts 10:34 - ". . . of a truth, God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation, he that feareth him and worketh righteousness is accepted by God. . ."

So you see. . . the Bible is more liberal than some will have you believe. . .

It depends. . the general agreement is that Jesus said that he alone is the way to salvation and only those that believe in him will party with him, his father and their friends in the imaginary heaven. . .There are other parts of the bible where Jesus himself said that He came to save ONLY the lost sheep of israel and warned his disciples not to preach to the gentiles and the samarians about the coming kingdom of god. . . .So the story is not without contradictions. . .If you read the bible you will see that the authors have a very diverse view of the god that they are talking about. . .All the authors do not even agree on the very basic nature of this god they are trying to sell. . .

Noetic my man nothing do you. . .

Deep Sight:
To the extent that both individuals insist that only christians can be "saved". . . they still have a long way to go in perceptive development. If this is not their position, then i retract this statement.

Believing that christians alone can be saved is not a problem at all. . .That is what christianity teaches. . . but when all you do is fight even your own fellow christians that subscribe to that belief system all the time like davidylan does then something is definately wrong with you. . . .

My man neotic is sometimes guilty of this. . he shouts at his fellow christians too. . .

Pastor AIO:
Why are winches always the weakest members of society?  It's always housegirls, children and weak old ladies. You'd think with all that Winch power they would be more influential in society.

You don talk am finish ohhh. . .

banom:
I am not talking as an atheist, i am talking in the sense that if i am to become a believer, i will not dare practice the type of christinaty Davidylan and noetic practice, they quote the scriptures when ever it will suite their claims, discard it when ever it will turn against them,

If they try all their dribbling tactics in a religious  debate, such as trying to prove the existence of God, if it fails, they will make the worst demand that i have ever heard, ( Can you prove That My God does not Exist), Instead of accepting the fact that they don't have any evidence to prove that God exist, they will tactically shift the dead end task to you, If u reply by reminding them that the burden of prove lies with them, they will go into name calling, i have seeing davidylan telling Ogaga4luv that he is demon possessed, the both of them have called almost all the atheist in the house fools, they have told Abuzola [/b]that Islam is a cult, not a religion, they have even gone as far as saying  that christianty is not a religion,

I am just scared, both of them are better called hypocrites ,[b]Christians beware    .

Davidylan is a deluded FOOL. . he believes that he alone knows the bible and all the myth it teaches. . . He fights and insults EVERY body that disagrees with his delusions. . .Even when I was a christian on nairaland when I first registered I found his personality very very toxic because of the way he debates other christians. . .  back then there were very few atheists here on the board and the discusions were mainly based on the bible but davidylan was ALWAYS against most people that disagreed with him . . .He was always the one to throw the first insult or call people names, he hides his agression as wise kicks and loves to call people fools for just disagreeing with him. .  .He thinks his own interpretation and personal opinion supercedes every body's. . . He fights withs Moslems, fellow christians, atheist everybody. . .Its no wonder everybody insults ONLY him on these boards. . . I have learned to speak to him in the ONLY language that he understands. . . The guys is a shameless charlatan. . . . 

He believes his delusion alone is the right type of delusion and every body that does not subscribe to his type of crazy delusion is the enemy. . .The guys is just a confused and retarded FOOL. . .

Noetic is my man. . . .  I like him even though he gets crazy atimes. . .

damsol:
i really have not witnessed it b4 bt a very close friend told me that she was given food by a woman to eat,so she kept it under her table few hours l8r she felt hungry and wanted to like eat the food so she found out that the rice turned to blood and the meat to an index finger.so hard to believe.innit?

. . .them say them say. . . Myths lies and urban legengs. . we all hear about people that have the ability to make their house dissapear, vomits birds, lizards. scorpions, deflect bullets, turn other people into animals like vultures, frogs, turn people into money etc. . . The african man's thoughts has not yet evolved . . . that is why we hear these endless myths and urban legens that have no ground in reality all the time. . na so so them say them say without ANY evidence at all. . .Yet people keep believeing these ridiculous LIES that have NO ground in reality. . .

Bobbyaf:
So floods, tsunamis, earthquakes, and other disasters have been made to materilize because of modern inventions that serve no real purpose.

Are you sure you are educated?. . . What kind of statement is this? Do you know that earthquakes, tsunamis, floods, mudslide, hurricanes, thunder stroms and snow storms are part of the natural world?. . .What do you mean when you say these natural disasters materialize because of mordern invention that serve no real purpose . . .Do you know that earth quakes, floods and hurricanes have been a part of the natural world since men were primitive?. . . .Do you know that the mordern man is now trying to reduce the intensity of natural disasters or trying to stop them from happening?

Scientist have discovered that if the tempreture of around a hurricane can be altered as it is forming it will loose its strength and dissappear and they are now making a device that will help them achieve that. . .People are also trying to create ways of making artificial rain drop so that they can take care of drought. . . so what is this nonsense you typed above?. . . .

So for all those Atheists, and Agnostics, who argue that there is no Creator of life, even your own science is supporting what God said initially about sin, and what it will do.

More ridiculous and baseless statements that have no ground at all in reality. . .where is your evidence to show that people's "sin" is responsible for the occurance of natural disasters? Where is your evidence to show that "sin" is what caused the tsunami that happened in 2007?. . . .Must you guys always lie to yourselves

Is the koran really the word of allah or a simple plagiarizm of the bible?

Sir Welly:
MAZAJE: So after allah has completely failed you guys, you guys are now trying to move into another relm of delusion by finding solace in numbers eh?. . .Where did you get your FALSE figures from. . christians still account for over 25 percent of the world global population . . . muslims account for about 20 percent of the world population. . . .

I THINK WE SHOULD MIND WHAT WE SAY HERE. YOU MADE MENTIONED THAT "so after allah has completely failed you guys". I PRAY TO ALMIGHTY ALLAH TO FORGIVE U because U DIDNT KNOW NOR UNDERSTAND THE WEIGHT OF YOUR STATEMENT.

ALLAH IS GOD. DO U MEAN THAT GOD HAS FAILED YOU? I KNOW THAT GOD WILL NEVER FAILED ANYBODY THAT BELIEVES IN HIM IN RESPECTIVE OF HIS/HER RELIGION.

Tell allah that I do not need his forgiveness. . . . .I do not depend on any imaginary god so how can your imaginary allah fail me . . . .You guys should keep on finding solace in numbers. . . . . .

Abuzola:
Woman, you shall eat delicious meal, enjoy in river of honey and wine. You shall be prettier everyday, you shall lead the slave girls of your husband, you will live forever etc

Why do people believe in all these ridiculous and outrageous fantasies and myths

See how dogma makes people reason like mad men. . deluded slaves of allah. . . .

noetic2:
do u actually think before u say this things?

bla bla bla sheep have you any wool?

noetic2:
its pretty obvious u are confused. . . . .I give up.

Actually you are the one that is confused. . .search you bible and see if you can come up with a coherent description of this mythical being. . .When you do and you have any evidence to show that he exist out side the pages of the bible you can let me know. . . . .

Abuzola:
The miraculous Quran has no descrepancy unlike the bible and the jewish book

Aren't you guys tired of repeating this lie already?. . . .

davidylan:
this is frankly stupid because this section is littered with several instances where you have vehemently made this assertion. To claim that one part of Josephus's writings is a fraud while another section is genuine is clearly a bogus LIE. It is funny that the ONLY section that scientists consider a "fraud" is the one that verifies the existence and death of Christ in the bible!

What is it that you have against scientist you deluded idiot? . . . What have scientist got to do with Josephus? Historians not scientist say that it is a fraud and they have given their very compelling reasons. . . .The problem you have is that Christian historains themselves agree that it is a fraud. . .some of them agree that it is completely a fraud while others say that it was partially a fraud. . . The guy who neotic referenced his writing is a christian historian and apologist but he agrees that part of it is a fraud. . .There are many christian historians and philosophers like William Lane Craig who have seen the testimonim flavianum and agree that is it a fraud because it is different from the style Josephus uses. . .That you choose to deliberately delude yourself into believing it is not a fraud is your own business. . . .There are christians out there who have seen it and agree that it is a fraud. . go through neotics link and read why the author who is a christian apologist agree that it is a fraud. . .

However ALL OTHER portions of the works of Josephus CONTINUE to be the gold standard for the history of Palestine at about that time period.

How could Josephus be correct on the life and death of Herod who lived at the same time as Christ BUT BE WRONG about Christ?

Because he did not write that passage about Jesus. . . It was an interpolation done by some catholic bishops because they were afraid that there was no extra biblical account for jesus by any contemporary historian that lived during his time so to save their face they took the work of Josephus and wrote that part about jesus. . they made mistakes because it was poorly written. . and any body that has access to josephus previous works will know that it is a fraud. . .Christian apologist agree to that. . . 

Sorry we are tired of having to read your confused lies.

is this the new tactics? Call the other person a liar after you have been caught lying? You are pathetic. . .

davidylan:
Again the same MO . . . when stuck simply call the other a liar.

You are a liar. . .you lied and you were caught. . .now you are trying to save face. . .

1. Ehud Netzer was on TV a few weeks ago, that is why i still remembered the Herod's tomb example . . . it doesnt matter if you dont believe it.

This is a lie. . .He NEVER said that the bible was instrumental to him at all. . you are a LIAR. . .What exactly did he say about the bible. . .what did the bible say about herod's tomb you shameless lair, what clue is there to find about herod's tomb in the bible? Did the bible mention the place he was buried?. . . You are just trying to save your face by lying that you saw him on TV idiot. . .you did NOT see him on TV it is a lie. . .How can he say that the bible helped him when he already said that the writings of Josephus helped him you shameless lair. . .What exactly did the bible say about Herod's tomb?. . .You are a disgrace. . . 

2. The link RIGHTLY talks about the writings of Josephus being largely instrumental in finding the tomb. As i said earlier . . . when i initially made mention of the fact that archeologists where consulting Josephus's works . . . you branded me a liar and Josephus a fraud!

Another Lie. . .Can you show me when I branded you a liar for saying that Josephus was largely instrumental in finding the tomb. . .Pls show me you shameless lair. . .

3. The link says ABSOLUTELY nothing about the bible being wrong on how he died.

Only because you have been blinded by the too much lies you spill all the time. . .

Herod, also known as Herod the Great, is credited with expanding the Second Temple and building Caesarea, Masada, and many other monumental construction projects. He died in the year 4 BCE in Jericho after a long illness.

This is from the link go through it again. . . .

noetic2:
will u stop embarrasing urself? 
if right and wrong is a cultural influence. . .what is the position of the conscience? how come the conscience influences actions and inactions?

Right and wrong depend solely on cultural influence. . .Human conscience evolved as a result of experience and it is still evolving as we are getting to understand each other better. . .There was a time when slavery was the right thing to do. . .and most people approved of it. . even their gods. . .but as time moved on and their conscience evolved they discovered that, that actions were counter productive to their society as a whole and put an end to it. . .There are societies where cannibalism was the right thing to do and most members of that society do not see any thing wrong in doing that. . .Every society determines what is right and what is wrong based on past experience or through interaction with other societies. . .   

how are billions of people in the world influenced today by the laws of God as prescribed in the old testament?

What laws exactly? Stoning to death of disobedient children or cutting the hands of women? Is it the prohibition of men to look at menstruating women or the laws that say that you should kill your family members that entice you and tell you to worship other gods? Even the ten commandments were basied and were not universal because when it says thou shall not kill it meant that shall not kill your fellow jew because yahweh also told the jews according to the bible to kill others that do not worship him. . .when it says thou shall not steal it was only talking about not stealing from your fellow jews because the bible god tells his chosen men to pillage and loot from others, he even participates in sharing of the loot in some cases according to the bible. . .So the ten commandments were not universally applicable. . . .People have been living with each other and observing some the laws of the ten commandments(thou shall not steal, thou shall not lie etc) in other parts of the world before the jews wrote them down. . .The jews were not the one that first wrote them down. . .people had already been observing some of the laws long before the jews wrote them down. . . 


The broader picture is this. . .Human morality is constantly evolving. . . There is no universally acceptable morality. . . every society has what it considers morally acceptable and what it doesn't and it differs from place to place. . . people in various groups learn from past experience and make changes for the better. . .If you look at the bible incest was not considered to be a sin at a time but as the peoples conscience evolved they decided to change it and label it a sin. . .If you look at the bible you will see that the morality of the people and their god was constantly evolving. . .yahweh encouraged slavery, killing and looting of other people, babaric laws like stoning to death of disobedient children ect. . . later when the conscience of the people evoled and the saw that this laws were no longer sustainable abiding by them or tried to change those laws. . .even jews of today that believe in the torah and the law of moses do not stone to death their disobedient children, they have discarded most of the barbaric laws of moses. . .their morality and conscience has evolved from that of their ancestors. . .All laws are made purely for the good and the survival of the society. . .when the ancient jews thought that killing their neighbors, taking what belongs to them and enslaving them will better their survival their god told them to kill their neighbors, seize their wealth and be racist to them. . .later when they realized that this system is unsustainable and is not good for the society at large their god told them to embrace their neighbors and be good to them. . , 

how come human laws evolve around conventional laws of God?

You don't have any evidence to show that any god gave any body any laws to follow, you only have people writing down laws for themselves and ascribing it to their various gods. . .there are no god giving laws all laws are man made and they differ from society to society. . . . .Humans make laws for themselves all the time and those laws always change as human morality and conscience changes and evolves. . .example racism and segregation was the normal way of life in the united state in the 30's and 40's but as their conscience and morality evolved through trial and error they decided to drop those laws of segregation and embrace the new laws that favor equality. . .because they know that it will be for the benefit of the society as a whole. . .500 years ago there was nothing like war treaties and war crimes. . today we have such things as war crimes because our morality and our conscience has evolved. . .

do u actually understand the concept of morality?

Morality is something that keeps on evolving all the time. . .500 years ago you will not be able to live as comfortable as you are over there in england. . .you would have been a slave because the conscience of the people living at that time had not evolved like ours, making slaves out of people that are from another race or tribe was the right thing to do amongst the people that were living in england at that time. . .People were living like animals about 3000 years ago. . .If you visit ancient cities like rome or athens you will see how they built their cities. . .they had walls and people move in groups for fear of being kidnapped and sold into slavery. . .You dare not walk alone because if members of another tribe see you. . you are toast. . . but now our morality has evolved and we no longer live like them. . .killing of twins was once accepted as the right thing to do in some parts of nigeria but now that the conscience of the people has evolved they no longer practice that primitive way of life. . .100 years ago no body would have accepted a black man as the president of the United states because most of the people living at that time believed that blacks were no different from monkeys. . .Today peoples conscience has evolved and they voted for a black man to be the POTUS. . . .

The threads talks about guiding principles. . .  .what EXACTLY are your guiding principles in life?. ,  ,  . must u evade questions on every thread?

My guiding principle is life is do unto others as you will want them to do unto you. . .

davidylan:
What is even funny is that you bring up the fact that Netzer found the tomb using parts of Josephus's writings . . . when you and toneyb were arguing blindly that Josephus was a fraud.

what a bunch of confused souls.

Are you still trying to cover your face? We NEVER said that Josephus is a fraud. . .I only said that the testimonium flavianum is a fraud. . . That fact was acknowledge by the christian apologist whose writing neotic posted. . .The guy who is a christian apologist agreed that Josephus's writing was tampered with, But he said that some of the material is originally from Josephus. . .

davidylan:
I read it initially on wikipedia . . . Ehud Netzer was on TV a few weeks ago to talk about his findings dude, we dont all live in a hole like you.

When you are in a hole stop digging davidylan. . . . The bible does not even talk about where he was buried so how can he claim to find Herod's tomb by reading the new testament? . . You are such a ridiculous liar. . .The truth is that you did not see him on any TV show few weeks ago you are just lying. . .Simple. . . .

This link shows that you are a deluded liar. . .

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/856784.html

In fact the bible is completely wrong about how herod died. .