₦airaland Forum

More questions for the christians. . . .

*why where the gospels originally written in greek? when jesus and his disciples never spoke greek?

* why are there so many contradicions and disagreements in the different gospel account of events? the gosples disagree with each other in many details concerning the resurrection: who exactly went to the tomb, the time that they went, what they found upon their arrival, when and where jesus was first seen after his revivification, and a host of other conflicting details.

*paul in 1 Corinthians 15:3-4: "For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures." which scripute was paul referring to because there is no jewish scripture ANYWHERE that says anything close to that.

*new testament writers claimed that the resurrection of the messiah on the third day had been predicted in the scriptures. but why is it that bibliolaters cannot produce an old testament passage that made this alleged third-day prediction?

*why is it that the story about the killing of babies ordered by king herod when jesus was born is only found in the bible?

* was jesus really dead for 3 days?

*when was jesus really born? matthew said that jesus was born in the reign of herod, who died in 4 B. C. (2:1). luke said that jesus was born during the syrian governorship of quirinius, who was not even appointed to the position until 6 A. D. (2:2). so when was jesus really born?

* why are there so many failed land promises made by yahweh, the tribal god of the Israelites in the old testament?

* why did yahweh kill 70,000 men in the bible just because david decided to conduct a census, which the people he killed had nothing to do with it?

* did john the baptist die before jesus of after jesus? jewish writers like josephus wrote that john the baptist died on a date after the one given for the death of jesus but the gospel writers all said that john the baptist died first.

*why did the writer of the gospel of matthew flatly lie about the prophecy of jeremiah the prophet

respect

origina9ja:
Mr JJC or whatever they call you
your view, abi na opinion or question whatever the oyinbo refer call it is very dumb and unnecessary
if you want to know by fire by force go and do your own research
stupid mugu trying to force people to answers so stupid question that has notting to do with being relevant
oya quote me and await your reply


_{jobless man such as you}

no be small thing, have youever read the bible? go and read it from the begining to the end before i answer any of your meaningnless rants thou deluded fool. , . .

Truth11:
why are you ignoring the next verse?
For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'
if you are interested and not hard hearted you can come, otherwise you will continue in your ways. Its YOU. .

The same bible says that it is the same biblegod that hardens peoples hearts against him.

Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

The Lord says: For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

what is jew and what is gentile? the bible was written by tribal fools who thought thatthe world expanded from the middle east to some parts of africa only. . . .

The Bible is not only for salvation but also death and judgement to those who reject it out of their FREEWILL:

There is no such thing as free will in the bible the word does not exist inside the bible and the bible does not agree with what you are trying to say.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

davidylan:
You have a choice to accept salvation or reject it. You made the conscious choice to reject it . . . by all means dont worry.

thats a lie, bible says no such thing, the bible says everything has already been predestined by the biblegod he sets everything according to how it pleases him and haschosen those whom he wants to be with and those whom he has already marked for destruction. he even hardens peoples minds against his word the bible says.(what a nonsense and incompetent deity)

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

davidylan:
awww darling . . . dont put urself on a pedestal you dont deserve. "hardball" questions? You nearly made me choke on this piece of candy. I mean did you call this a "hardball" question - why is it that the biblegod in spite of all kinds of promises to heal and perform miracles, has never ever healed an amputee?

do you believe you serve a god that can do all things? i thought you have stated so many times here that you believe in the power of miracles? if the biblegod can make jonah survive inside a fishfor 3 days, why then can't he heal amputees? the bible is very clear about how prayer is supposed to work in mark 11:24 Jesus promises:

"Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours."

in john chapter 14, verses 12 through 14, jesus tells us just how easy prayer can be

"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it"

Matthew 18:19 jesus says it again:
Again I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything they ask, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

we have jesus saying thatwho ever ask for ANYTHING it will be done so pls davidylan i want you to tell the biblegod to pls heal all the christians amputees that believe in him immediately. . . . these passages are very clear.why did jesus lie? people pray to jesus daily for somanything but he doesn't anser their prayers despite promising to anser their prayers as long asthey pray. remember there is no condition attached all you needto do is believe.

Because again dear, you need to understand english language. Salvation is universal but you can only get it if you ask. Salvation is not the same as air, just hovering above the heads of every idiot who has a nose . . . water is universal but if you dont open your tap you can die of thirst sitting right beside it for 300yrs, water will not start flowing on its own.

again how can salvation be universal when the biblegod does not believe in a level playing ground? the bible says he has already predestined everything, what if you pray and ask but the bible god refuses toanswer because he did not include your name amongst his chosen ones right from the begining?

Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love

the bible also says that the biblegod hardens people's hearts against his word.

Dear, what is "pretty clear" is your own ignorance.

Again like i reiterate . . . many of you dont understand the bible at all.

you don't understand the bible better than me the only thing you understand better than me is bible apologetics but not the message of the bible. . . . .

"The quest for God is like a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there."
— Anon.

"If you are comfortable with a lie, you will never look for the truth."
— Anon.

"Fear first created the gods."
— George Santayana

"I contend that we are both Atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."
— Stephen Roberts

manmustwac:
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.

"Reason should be destroyed in all Christians."
— Martin Luther(founder of the protestant movement)

JeSoul:
Tragedies like these happen all the time brotha. Nobody knows _{or can feel} the time nor the hour when God will put an end to this world.

Jesus said told some of his disciples that they will not taste death when his kingdom will come and we all know that it was a gaint FAIL. . . . .

he also said that his generation will not pass away when he will return, that too was another gaint FAIL. . . . .

paul said the same too about jesus coming and taking those of them that where alive to meet him in heaven, that too was another gaint FAIL. . . . . .

"God himself shows little respect for what is best in the Bible. He commands 'Thou shalt not kill', and then promptly orders the killing of many thousands. Moses condemns human sacrifice but God demands the sacrifice of Isaac and accepts that of Jephthah's daughter. Jesus preaches 'whoever shall say 'you fool!', shall be in danger of hell fire', but shortly after this rages at the Pharisees saying 'you fools!'."
— Prof Carl Lofmark, What is the Bible?

"The theist must present an intelligible description of god. Until he does so, god makes no more sense than unie; both are cognitively empty, and any attempt at proof is logically absurd."
— George H. Smith,

"All religions are sick men's dreams, false — demonstrably false — and pernicious."
— Ibn Warraq

"People go to church for the same reasons they go to a tavern: to stupefy themselves, to forget their misery, to imagine themselves, for a few minutes anyway, free and happy."
— Mikhail Bakunin

"Mosaic Law orders us to kill anyone who worships a different god, kill anyone who worships idols, kill anyone who blasphemes, kill anyone who works on Saturday, kill anyone who dishonors their parents, kill anyone who commits adultery, kill any woman who has sex before marriage, kill anyone who steals a slave, kill anyone who has homosexual sex, and wage genocidal war against any city that allows religious liberty"
- Mikhail Bakunin

"In those parts of the world where learning and science have prevailed, miracles have ceased; but in those parts of it as are barbarous and ignorant, miracles are still in vogue."
— Ethan Allen

"If we go back to the beginning we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them, and that custom, respect and tyranny support them in order to make the blindness of men serve its own interests. If ignorance of Nature gave birth to gods, then knowledge of Nature is calculated to destroy them"
— Baron d'Holbach

JeSoul:
Stop blowing up smoke Mazaje. Go and respond to the scriptures I replied with in the thread you opened on "God's Chosen People". I have taken the time to provide you with plenty of scriptures that debunked your allegations and you did not show face to respond to them.

This is evidence enough for me you never had any genuine interest in 'discussing'.

i did not respond because that will lead to another set of arguments but since you want to i will respond to your reply. . . .

davidylan:
i think you'll find out most are not interested in what charlatans like mazaje have to say. When you realise the person purporting to "ask" is nothing but a renowned unintelligent scoffer you tend to prefer to spend time doing something else than offering to feed his ego.

when i say you are a complete idiot i really mean it, of all the hardball questions i asked you took on the one you felt you could explain and left the others only to come and post this nonsense drivel. . . . .where did jesus first appear to 11 of his disciples after he was raised from the dead? was it in jerusalem or in in galilee? is it true that there is nothing that the biblegod can not do? if yes why can't he heal amputees?

davidylan:
probably because we both are using two starkly different meanings of the word "universal".
When i say "salvation is universal" - i mean salvation is one thing that EVERY BIBLE-READING CHRISTIAN understands as the core/basic message of the gospel.

However when you say "universal" - you mean something that you (even though you despise the bible) feel you shld recieve without bothering to work for.

Salvation is free BUT IT IS A GIFT YOU MUST ACCEPT . . . it wont be forced on the unwilling.

how can salvation be universal when the bible says that the biblegod has predestined everything according to his will? the bible says that the biblegod has already predestined and chosen those he will save and those he wouldn't according to his will.

Php 2:13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Joh 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father."

these verses are pretty clear. . . salvation can not be universal since the biblegod chooses to draw those he wishes unto him according to what is written in the bible. all the non christians out there if we are to bo by what the bible says have been predestined to die as non christians by the biblegod, the bible also says that he hardens the hearts of those he wants to against his word everything depends on how he wants it to be so enough of your salvation is universal because the bible does not say that. how can salvation be universal when everything has already been predetermined?

here is what wikipedia says.

The Number of the Beast is a concept from the Book of Revelation of the New Testament of the Christian Bible. The number is 666 in most manuscripts of the New Testament, and in modern translations and critical editions of the Greek text. Although Irenaeus (second century) reported several scribal errors of the number, there is still doubt by some theologians about the original reading, as some recently discovered third century early manuscripts of Revelation read 616. This topic is a source of contention for many church groups and theologians.[1] Some scholars contend that the number 666 is a code for the Roman Emperor Nero,[2][3] others that 616 is a code for the Roman Emperor Caligula.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_the_Beast_(numerology)

the numbers have references to ancient hebrew, where numbers could be assigned to letters or words.

as the wiki article states, 616 is the 'original' reference and 666 is the mistranslated christian nonsense reference.

davidylan:
Salvation is universal.

thats not what the bible says.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified Eph 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Eph 1:5 he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

it is very clear from this verses that the biblegod has already predestined those who he is going to save and take to his heaven and those whom he has already condemed. so enough of this lie that salvation is universal. if salvation were universal the biblegod would have appeared to the whole world at once not some normadic jews and call them his chosen people as the story is written in the bible.

JeSoul:
Mazaje don't turn into huxley and start spamming the religion board. First go and finish the other threads/questions you asked esp the one about God's Chosen people which I replied with detailed scriptures and you haven't responded.

don't you think these questions are valid? why can't the biblegod heal amputees? i thought christian say that there is nothinbg that he can not do? we have pastors claiming that they have rasied the dead, healed the blind cured cancer ect but we are yet to see any amputee's limbs restored. when was jesus really crucified? on the passover or on the eve of passover? this are very legitimate questions don't you think so?

davidylan:
the very same reason we have fake naira notes.

the naira is the naira any where and it is acceptable nationaly as the currency or legal tender of nigeria weather it is real real of fake it still remains the naira, but there is no real universally acceptable christianity or christian doctorine its varies greately from church to church and from region to region. so your analogy falls flat. . . . .

1.why is it that the biblegod in spite of all kinds of promises to heal and perform miracles, has never ever healed an amputee?
2.which of the two different creation stories in the bible is the true creation story?
3.when did jesus really die, is it on the eve of passover or on the passover day itself?
4.what time was jesus really crucified? 9am or at noon?
5. when and where did jesus really apper to the 11 disciples after his resurrection, jerusalem or galilee?
6. where did jesus really ascend into heaven? from mount olivet or from From bethany?
7.why is the biblegod so obessed with foreskins in the old testament?
8.shouldn't christian women put tags on themselves when going through menstruation?  (Leviticus 15: 19-33)
9.do you think parents should stone their child to death? 
10.what was god doing inside a wooden ark? and why did he kill the man that was trying tostop the ark from falling?
11.why didn't god bring in jesus earlier so he wouldn't have to do that flood?
12.how many days did jesus really spend on earth after he rose from the dead?
13.why did jesus tell some of his disciples that they were not going to taste death until he returns.
14. why did jesus say that those who pray to him will get anything that they ask for?
15.why does paul seem to despise the disciples of jesus so much?
16. what really happened to paul when he meet jesus? (the two account in the book of acts cancel each other out completely)
17.why does pauls teachings seem to be in sharp disagreement with the understanding and practices of jesus' own disciples?
18. why is there no universally acceptable christian doctorine and teaching?

DeReloaded:
Yet out of all the religions, it's only ONE you cowards focus on.

how many times will i tell you that people only question the veracity of their former faiths? can you show me where any former moslem attacks christianity or hinduism when disproving the existance of any god? ex moslems only attack islam when disproving the existence of a god same applies to ex christians. why is that so hard for you to understand? (i thought i gave you a link to see for yourself what ex muslims are saying about the idea of a god, they only refer to the koran and other islamic teachings)

DeReloaded:
Nigeria might as well be.

i don't attack islam on nairaland since there are people that are already doing that here, i go to islamic websites like kanoonline or yanabi( islamic fundamentalist websites) when ever i feel like attacking islam and its teaching unfortunately they don't allow my post to last for more than 5 mins so i gave up.(visit yanabi you will see a lot of my posts there attacking the islamic faith and its teachings)

Truth11:
Mazaje,
I dont have to listen to all that you are driving me to, I have the mind of Christ to respond to what is necessary. Here is the reason for not addressing the passages you posted (Abraham also did not listen to the rich fool shouting from hell after ignoring all the calls on earth, suddenly he becomes enlightened about Jesus and salvation on the wrong side of life):
'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'

So much has been said and you still are unable to hear!! How wonderful is the word of God in explaining this situation, so true and right 2000 years ago, I praise God!!
'You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. "
What wisdom of God!! All glory to God!!

what is this you are saying? i showed you where the biblegod says that he predsetines everything and you are here saying that i will here but never understand and i will see but never preceive, jesus himself said(if we are to believe what the bible says) that he speaks in parable because he does not want people to understand so that they will not ask for forgiveness. there is nothing like free will in the bible no such word exist besides it is written in very clear terms that the biblegod predestines everything.

how many times do u want me to quote what is inside the bible for you?

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

the biblegod if we are to go by what the biblesays about him has already predestined everything according to his will.

[b]"I think that religion is the most dangerous and divisive ideology that we have ever produced. It is also the only ideology that is systematically protected from criticism, both from within and without."
— Sam Harris

"The problem with religion, because it's been sheltered from criticism, is that it allows people to believe en mass what only idiots or lunatics could believe in isolation."
— Sam Harris

"What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence."
— Christopher Hitchens

"God is no longer an explanation of anything, but has instead become something that would itself need an insurmountable amount of explaining."
— Douglas Adams

"There is not a single contemporary historical mention of Jesus, not by Romans or by Jews, not by believers or by unbelievers, during his entire lifetime. This does not disprove his existence, but it certainly casts great doubt on the historicity of a man who was supposedly widely known to have made a great impact on the world. Someone should have noticed."
— Dan Barker, ibid, p. 360
There is no evidence for a god, no coherent definition of a god, no good argument for a god, good positive arguments against a god, no agreement among believers about the nature or moral principles of a god, and no need for a god. We can live happy, moral, productive lives without such belief, and we can do it better."
— Dan Barker

"It is a fact of history and of current events that human beings exaggerate, misinterpret, or wrongly remember events. They have also fabricated pious fraud. Most believers in a religion understand this when examining the claims of other religions."[/b]

Truth11:
Mazaje:
There are no inconsistencies in the freewill argument. Every word of the Bible is full of wisdom, knowledge and is perfect! It satisfies the soul absolutely! It is written that we are made in the image of God, so we have a freewill and so does God.

The reason for not understanding the Bible begins when a person comes on a high pedestal or superiority attitude or thinks about oneself as above God. Other reasons are the sinful nature and proud state of mind of a person which keeps from understanding. Every person who comes like a little child, in humility will receive grace and revelation of God. When people try to belittle God of the Bible, they will never understand.

A small example of carnal person trying to explain and argue about the teaching of God of the Bible is like a person born blind trying to teach about light to people who see. And if the blind challenges those who claim to see that there is actually nothing called light and all that they see and experience is inconsistencies, how can there be any communication!! Paul tried to tell King Agrippa against this same attitude of jews who tried to prove that the light Paul saw was no light! "So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven. "

You are unable to understand the freewill of man vs freewill of God and foreknowledge of God.

If there was no freewill then you would not have the freedom to post against the Bible. There is freewill to chose Jesus or reject him. You have decided to chose the second so far. God will honor that when the silver chord of a person is severed and one has to stand before the creator and face judgement on the freewill choice made.

I am surprised that people who are trying to disapprove the Bible strangely miss out on so many of the promises and invitations of a loving, forgiving, restoring God. Why do you always try to quote only few out-of-context scriptures - are you prejudiced or ignorant of the treasures of love, forgiveness and blessings through Jesus? The nature of the God of the Bible is to save and forgive and a loving God. Consider the following scriptures and if you humble to accept his invitation, I can assure you of eternal joy and peace!:
"Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends."

"Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign LORD. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?"

[/b]

[b]Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death.

He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

"I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.


If you dont see God's love and forigveness through these - you have decided to stand against him.

Blessings,

all this apologetics you did not even address any of the bible passages i posted. . .

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

georgecso:
@ Mataye

I thought u're thoughtfull enough bro. Its seems u don't understand the simple meaning of Free-will because of your pride. If you claim to be wise, you'll never understand the simple truth. Please stop struggling with urself. Apostle Paul, you know him I guess? Go read his past history bro.

another meaningless apologetics you did not even care to address what is written in the bible. do you know prophet mohammed? go and read his past history. . . .

davidylan:
this is dishonest bull. You are not familiar with christianity (beyond the atheist websites you plagiarise), you dont understand its core teachings neither are you familiar with its doctrines.

what are christianity's core doctorines? there is non. . . . the catholic doctorine is very different from the evangelical baptist doctorine which is also very differnt from the seven day adventist doctorine, that too is also different from the prosperity preachers out there, there is NO core christian belief and doctorine if there was then there wouldn't be more than over 30,000 VERY different sects of christianity each with their different beliefs and doctorines. so don't be too full of yourself you fool and stop lying because every church has its own doctorine, nothing like christian doctorine exits only church doctorine does.

What if i asked to explain to me in concrete terms the doctrine of water baptism?
What if i asked you to explain the spiritual meaning of the breaking of the bread?
What if i asked you the bible's theological position on faith?

Do you know any of those?

there is no such thing, it all depends on how you interpert it, the catholic water baptism is different from the protestant water baptism, catholics baptize their babies while others do not. there is no universally accepted christian meaning of water baptism every church interpretes it the way it sees fit. davidylan is not the only person that understand the spritual meaning of breaking of bread because if i am to ask some one like donnie or sir john here on nairaland what it means his opinion and interpretation will differ greatly from yours. what is the bible's theological position on faith? that also depends on personal interpretation and opinion. there is no such thing as the bibles theolgical position on faith because no two christians agree on that, christian theology differs greatly from chrch to church in most cases they cancel each other out, your own theology on faith is different from the catholic theology on faith which also differ greatly from other sects. every thing depends on your own opinion and interpretation there is no such thing as christian theology on faith if there was there wouldn't be more than 30,000 different sects of christianity each fighting and castigating each other. a good example is the present war in the nigerian pentacostal movement (tb joshua vs adeboye and crew).

You hypocrites and spawns of satan attack christianity because it is the truth, it is the only faith that actively questions your morals and pricks your consciences. Islam has no power, buddhism is simply idol worship in disguise . . . you HATE christianity because it condemns you for living in sin, you despise it because it shuts you out of heaven even though you claim you dont believe it exists.

christianity is the truth to what? there is no truth in christianity let me show you a one lie that exist in the bible(there are uncountable of them)? where did jesus first appear to his disciples after he was raised from the dead? one of the gospel writers said he first appeared to the 11 disciples in a room in jerusalem while another said he first appeard to the 11 disciples on a mountain in galilee,(galilee and jerusalem are at least 100km apart and a room is not the same as a mountain) so one of the bible writers is definately lying here if we are to believe what the bible is saying. there are so many of such lies in the bible. you still want to talk about christianity being the truth? by the way there are so many mistranslation and out right forgery of the orignal hebrew bible(tanakah) in the christain bible example the alleged prophecy in isaiah.  what is the truth in christianity by the way? the truth that keeps you in a world of bubble and delusion? idiot. . . . .

what morality is there in the bible? you want me to quote verses where the biblegod commands people to rape, kill, steal, enslave and brand each other, maim their body parts and lie? don't be too full of yourself you deluded fool. i don't hate christianity because it condems me to hell(i dont believe in hell), i hate christianity because christians always insult, disparage and castigate me when ever i tell them that i do not believe in their foolish deity. by the way what is heaven and hell? there are books written by christians that claimed to have been to heaven, pls get two different books written by different authours and read, you will see that their descriptions are totally different from each other some of their testimonies flatly cancel each other out. by the way what is sin? if there is any such thing as sin then the foolish god you worship is the greatest sinner because he has committed the greatest sin in the world if we are to believe what is written in the bible about him, he commands people to rape steal lie and kill each other, infact he was the first person to tell a lie in the bible go and read it up.

You also hate christianity because most christians would turn the other cheek when you slap the first. If Christians were 50% as violent as muslims, none of you wimps would dare open your gob here.

seems you know little about what you are saying. . . .is george bush a muslim? pat robinson, jerry farwell, rev phleps? are you not a christian? is there any difference between you and the moslems out there? idiot again you are so full of your self idiot.

Islam is trying so hard to get the UN to outlaw criticism of the quran and the name "mohammad", tolerance and freedom do not exist in muslim circles . . . AND YET you have more problems with christianity?

we are not living in moslem countries if you have a problem with what moslems are trying to enforce in the UN go and cry to ban ki moon. stop whinning like a headless chicken here on nairaland. idiot

Stop howling like pigs you fools . . . we are not the ones who pushed the bibles into your laps as little kids . . . if any of you had any ounce of spunk in you why have you not confronted your parents about your stance on christianity? why do you cowards hide from your family and friends only to come here blowing hot air?

who told you we havent? idiot. . . again i see no moslem forcing you to accept islam why do you spend most of your time here on nairaland attacking them? its ok to show the inconsistencies and lies of the koran but not the inconsistences and lies of the bible? idiot

You all pretend to be intelligent, accuse us of being blind followers of emotions and worship the gods of science YET you cannot answer me one simple question - how did we get here and were are you going when you die?

do you believe in christianity because it answers the question of how we got here? ok when did the bible god create plants if we are to go by the different creation stories in genesis 1 and 2, it seems the bible god does not even know when he created the plants talkless of the universe and other planets. does the bible answer what will happen to people when they die? are the words of the bible not opinions and imaginations of other men?

davidylan:
I thot i was the only one who noticed these hypocrites. The flimsy excuse is always that 99% of them were "former christians" as if that makes a shred of difference. If, as mazaje claims, he is only revolting against a religion he was forced to accept as a child then why is he here foaming in the mouth at us? Where we the ones who forced him to read the bible? Why is the hypocrite not pointing out these flaws in the bible to his father and mother?

thou hypocrite has any moslem ever told you to convert to islam? why do you have uncountable post pointing out the flaws of the koran and the islamic assertions to the moslems here on nairaland? you are a complete idiot

ttalks:
I didn't post that link to explain the verses u quoted.
Rather,I posted it to help u understand the true position of the Christian's will in relation to God.
To help u understand that the understanding you probably have as regards freewill as bandied about by most Christians is wrong.

A true Christian is subject to the will of God.
A Christian life is one about denying one's self and being subject to the will of God.

Maybe most of the "Christans" u know are probably not bound by/subject to the will of God, but that does not distort the truth from what it is.

What makes you say that? what is the will god the biblegod if i may ask? most of the christians i know are no different from any other christian out there because they pick and choose what to follow in the bible, keep in mind that there is no universally acceptable christian doctorine. its just all a bunch of gimmick and confusion because every body just creates his own god or deity out of the writings of the bible. . . a good example is the christian ection here on nairaland no two christians agree on anything, as far as daviylan is concerned lady and the entire catholic church are going to rot in hell for the beliefs they hold and he has every point to back his belief against theirs from his own interpretaion and opinion of the bible, sir john as long as he knows think he is saved while donnie, pepeye and all the members of christ embassy are misinterperting what the bible says, he also can provide evidence to support his assertions from the bible, the christ embassy members believe that donnie is an agent of satan out to destroy the word of god, they also have more than enough evidence from the bible to prove their case. seven day adventist, jehovah witness etc all have created their own deity out of the bible, any body can do this, even the early christians do not agree with each other, read pauls letters and you will see it for ur self. the whole thing is just a circle of confusion and disagreement(nigerian pastors are presently fighting each other, TB joshua vs the pentacostal movement adeboye and his crew). most christians i know are like any other christian out there because they create their own god in their own image out of their understanding or interpretation of the bible.

DeReloaded:
It's all fear

Um Not true, sorry.

pls can you show me where ex-hindu who are presently atheist attack christianity? can you show me a post or writing from any former worshiper of buddah who attacks christianity?

toluxa1:
I was telling a "man of God" one day and He gave me John 1:12. (I'm 20 yrs and He is 57) Then I reminded him of the biblical rule of studying the bible (which is comparing scripture with scripture and not taking just one verse). So i asked him to read further (verse 13). I also gave him some of the verses you have sited. After that he couldn't say anything again.

If christians read the bible they way you say it then there will be no more christians left in the world because the truth will become more obvious example. . .
Where did Jesus first appear to the eleven disciples? In a room in Jerusalem. Luke 24:32-37
On a mountain in Galilee. Matthew 28:15-17

The distance between jerusalem and galilee is at least 100 km. so one of the writers is definately telling a lie. . . .

When was jesus crucified on the eve of the passover or on the passover itself? it depends on the gospel account you read, again one of the writers of the gospel is lying here again because jesus can not be cruficifed on both days. if you read the bible by comparing what other parts of the bible say then all the lies and contradictions will become more obvious to you, they lies and contradictions cancel each other out. the creation account in genesis one and two cancel each other out.

DeReloaded:
They should put more time in also reading the Qu'ran and pointing out the "inconsistencies/fallacies" or is it that atheist only have problem with Christianity? and NO, not everything in the Quran correlates with the Bible. Last I checked it should be arguing against any religion that believes in a higher spiritual being "in the sky". Until they stop cowering from other religions and going after the one they know wont ask for their blood, they will continue to look like pathetic cowards.

ok let me tell you why former christians attack only christianity and not any other religion. . .

christianity is the only religion they are familiar with, its core teachings and doctorines are the only teachings they know, ask duduspace to tell you the 5 pillars of islam and i bet you he won't be able to list one. if you find out that the people who you taught were you parents were not really your parents after all, but people that stole you as a baby from your original parents and lied to all your life, will you go around attacking other people's parents even if what they are doing to their children is wrong or will you attack the people who spent all their time lying to you that they were your original parents when they were not? most former muslim atheist attack only islam,  is here.]=http://www.ex-muslim.org.uk/indexMembers.html] here.  you'll find atheists who use Islam when rejecting the idea of a god god,reason is because they were ex- muslims and islam is the only religion they know.

DeReloaded:
I bet he didnt have an answer.

his answer was that he has never read the koran at all. . . .

ttalks:
I don't expect people that are anti-bible or anti-Christian to believe anything the bible says.But below is an article that really makes clear
the position of a Christian's will in relation to God.

Check it here.

I went through your link and the apologetics is very ridiculous it does not even address any of the verse i posted above. i just dislike it when christians keep lying and using the free will argument to explain away tbiblial assetions that make no sense at all. here is the bible in its own words.

Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

There is no free will according to the bible besides there is no such owrd in the bible. the bible god choses to save or destroy whom ever he wants according to his will. . . . what a god. . . . . .

DeReloaded:
How come that's the only religion they always question? There are some things in the Bible that also show up in the Qu'ran, why dont they question that?

I doubt if most of the ex- christians i know have ever read the koran, all they know is that the koran and most of its stories were copied from the hebrew bible, that alone is enough for them to discard it completely. christians keep whinning that former christians do not attack or question islam, i was watching a debate between a former pastor(atheist) and a bible apologist and when the bible apologist was put in a very tight spot he asked if the former preacher also attacks islam the way he attacks the veracity of the bible. most of the athiest on NL and from western cultures know only christianity(most have never read or seen the koran ) and all they are doing is showing the inconsistenceis, fallacies of its teachings and assertions. simple.

DeReloaded:
They should just admit that they stay away out of FEAR

sure that is also a reason, muslims are quick to shout "murder them" when ever people ridicule allah or his last prophet.

[quote author=**osisi link=topic=254966.msg3657245#msg3657245 date=1238285997]It's obvious he's not a pastor.
He claims to be one
419ers can claim to be anything including Yaradua and IBB
Your hatred for Christianity will blind you one of these days[/quote]and your own hatred for islam will make improve your eye sight? idiot. . . .

Truth11:
Mazaje,

You contradict your thread by posting by your freewill!!

How?

Why dont you answer the questions:

1) are you posting out of freewill or without thinking?
2) Do you have a freewill to reject Jesus or is this a thoughtless act?

blessings,

sure i am posting because i want to show the inconsistences that lie in the free will argument. The bible says that humans have no right to choose(free will) because the biblegod is the one that decides or predestines everything even before people were born, he chooses to take people to heaven or cast them into hell even before they were born. It seems you did not read what i posted above here are some of them again.

Rom 8:29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.
Rom 8:30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.
Rom 9:16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy
Rom 9:18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
Rom 9:21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use?

Eph 1:11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,

here we have the biblegod saying that he chooses to do with people what every he likes, if it pleases him he will harden their hearts against him if it doesn't he will choose them to be amongts his chosen ones, so do u still want to talk about people having the free will to either choose the bible god or another god? it is written in the bible that the biblegod has predestined everything to happen according to his will. i posted this because i am tired of christians using the free will card when ever they are cornered to explain away assertions from the bible that do not make sense to them and others.