₦airaland Forum

sammyzacks:
Matthew 16:28 states, "Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom." Parallel passages are found in Mark 9:1 and Luke 9:27.

The key is found in what immediately follows each of these verses. Jesus calls Peter, James, and John, takes them up to a high mountain and is transfigured before them while Moses and Elijah come down to discuss His coming death. Consider the things that point to this being the event Jesus referred to in Matthew 16:28.
Jesus "was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light" (Matthew 17:2). This matches the glorified appearance of Christ in Revelation 1:13-18 where "his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength" (Revelation 1:16).
Of Moses and Elijah, the Bible says that they "appeared in glory" (Luke 9:31). They did not just appear in a natural way but "in glory." Colossians 3:4 states, "When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory." This points directly to the coming of Christ in glory (Matthew 24:30).
When the disciples awoke, they looked at Christ and "saw his glory" (Luke 9:32). This is a very powerful statement. They saw the glorified Christ. They saw Him as King of Kings.
A cloud overshadowed them and the Father said, "This is my beloved Son: hear him" (Luke 9:34-35). This too points to the presence and glory of God in fullness and power.
Jesus told them not to tell of the vision until He had risen from the dead (Matthew 17:9). Ths vision was not for the time that Jesus walked on the earth before His crucifixion. It was a glimpse of His coming kingdom.

Peter, James, and John received a vision of the future kingdom and glory of Christ. They saw Him coming in His kingdom. It was to this event that Peter referred when he said, "For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount." (2 Peter 1:16-18). These three men were eyewitnesses of the majesty of "the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." What a glorious opportunity they had! What a glorious testimony they give!

Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Mat 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

Did jesus also reward Peter, James, and John according to what they have done?

Mat 10:18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles.

Mat 10:19 [b]But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say,
[/b]
Mat 10:20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Mat 10:21 "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.

Mat 10:22 All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.

Mat 10:23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

spin this one too. . .

Mat 26:61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "

Mat 26:62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, [fn] the Son of God."

Mat 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Spin it too

[quote author=Blood_Shed link=topic=257814.msg3687960#msg3687960 date=1238841693]Does being an Atheist/Skeptic make you feel any less of a Nigerian?[/quote]Yes it does nigerians do not accept atheist, better to be a christian, moslem or sango worshipper than to be an atheist but the problem is that every body is an atheist, christians are atheist when it comes to the islamic religion and moslems are atheist when it comes to the christian god, the two major religions despite not believing in each other also do not believe in other traditional religions out there.

chukwudi44:
@kunle osho

The council of nicea was called to decide on the nature of Jesus,whether he was actually man or God not to decide the books of the bible.The major participants at that council was Arius and Athanasius of Alexandria.The first church council that deliberated on the books of the bible was the synod of hippo in 393AD.

chukwudi44 what was jesus'nature before the final decision was reached about him in the council of nicea?

@Oladegbu
If you dont like the fact that the RCC decided the books of the bible just throw it away but stop telling lies the same bible preaches against

oladegbu go throw off your bible, because the RCC chose the books that are inside. . . .

[quote author=OLAMIND, link=topic=256653.msg3688715#msg3688715 date=1238855458]Who can battle with my God[/quote]men did, go read it up in the old testament. . . .

Bobbyaf:
@ hymnha

I know he is an atheist, but what I find opportunistic is his desire to prove the bible wrong. There have been others like him who are now Christians, so let us not give up on him.

who is a christian if i may ask? the last time i looked around i saw over 30,000 different sects of christianity each with their different beliefs and doctorines I understand that you are a member of the seven day adventist church right? Pls go and tell davidylan or oladebuguu that you are a christian and you will be amazed with their reply, they will tell you that you are not a true christian because you do not believe in hell as a permanent place of suffering. you don't have to go to far there are christians here on nairaland that will write you off as a misguided follower of wrong doctorines who need to come to the full knowledge of christ and be "saved" because as far as they are concerned you are not "saved" because of the beliefs you hold. There is nothing like christianity its all personal opinion and interpretation of the bible according to like minds. . . . .if there was anything like christianity there wouldn't be 30,000 different sects of it. . . .

dalaman:
Let us see how he will twist this one. It is in black and white, the governor had made it a custom to release one prisoner each year on the day of the passover feast and on that particular passover feast day the people shouted that he should release Barabas and not Jesus Christ. What is hard there for any body that has eyes and can read to see? This entire debate is becoming annoying I am out of here.

QED. . . . davidylan pls go ahead and spin Mark 15 vs 6 and show us how the writer of mark does not really know what he wrote. . . . idiot. . . .

davidylan:
Read Mark 14:2 again - this was not a debate about whether they shld kill him on that day or not . . . it was an emphatic [size=18pt]"Not on the feast day"[/size]

The "lest" there was simply their reason to back up why they strongly disapproved . . . it is NOT the crux of the entire verse.

sometimes you people shoot yourselves in the foot.

your only pillar of argument has been shattered by the bible. just as dalaman said you are trying and fighting just so hard to keep yourself in the bubble of delusion. . . .

Here is what the bible says in mark 15: 6 on the day that jesus was executed

Now it was the governor's custom to release one prisoner each year at Passover feast--anyone the people requested.

NLT other translations put it this way. . . .

Mark 15: 6Now at the feast [/b]he was accustomed to releasing one prisoner to them, whomever they requested.

(new king james version)

Now at the [b]feast he used to release for them one prisoner for whom they asked.

(RSV)

Now it was the custom at the Feast to release a prisoner whom the people requested.

(NIV)

here are just a few bible translations that say clearly that jesus was crucified on the day of the passover feast. keep reading the bible with your anus and farting out lies thou deluded fool. . . .


@
dalaman well done. . . . more vaseline to your elbows abeg. . . . . .

davidylan:
as usual the "rebuttal" from toneyb is 99% personal insults . . . NO attempt at all to carefully outline his points . . .

and your statements below are what? personal praises?  how can you see his points when you read and reason with your anus just as he said?

davidylan:
toneyb the dishonest hypocrite is back as usual . . .

[size=14pt]Did you skip Mark 14:2? you dishonest liars and spawns of the devil! [/size]

Sometimes i wonder if you folks think with your feet.

no stupid,

its more preferable to run away with the cheap excuse about "go and read". What does one expect from airheads anyway?

i also have read some parts of the talmud about 2 months ago and it is very clear that you have never read it. . . . . . by the way there are about  3 different yehua whose lives were talked about in details in the talmud christians apologist say the other one whose father was a carpenter is also the jesus of the bible when the talmud cleary show that they are very different people. . . . only to turn around and claim that the one hanged on the eve of the passover is the jesus talked about in the bible, so which of the yeshua  talked the about in the talmud is the jesus of the bible? the one whose father is a carpenter or the one that was hanged on the eve of passover?

I'll be back to address the ton of silly errors again later. I have work to do . . .

you will be back to keep farting out fat lies?

davidylan why didn't you just accept that you were a lair? why did you allow toneyb to expose you in such an embracing manner? It is very clear as toneyb has stated that you read the bible with your anus.

davidylan:
But you missed one important portion of those verses you quoted (you know an example of YOU cleverly omitting those verses that rubbish your claims) . . . read it again - Deu 21:13  And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.

1. "go in unto her" is not a phrase synonymous with rape if not we can equally accuse Abraham of "raping" Sarah, David "raping" his wives and so on. Look again at the portion in bold, would you necessarily take to wife, a woman you were merely told to rape?

go into her means to have sex with her. that itself is an act of rape reason because the women were taking against their will at the command of yahweh and married off without their consent, they were also to be enjoyed as spoils of was according to the words of yahweh according to some of the stories. abraham did not carry sarah his wife and go into her as a prisoner of war. if the jewish soldiers living in present day israel after their war with gaza were to take the young women of gaza as wives and go into them after they allowed them to mourn their dead parents there will be incredible amount of uproar from people around the world.

2. Why let a woman bewail her parents for 1 month if all you were told to do was wickedly rape her?

Sometimes i wonder if you folks think with your feet.

of course it is tantamount to rape because the young woman was taken away after her family against their will, their family members were killed mostly for nothing but because they were living in the land that yahweh had already promised his chosen people. they were allowed to mourn their parents and given off to other men to have sexual relationship with them weather they like it or not, once a hebrew man sees a woman he like the passages says he can have her whether she like it or not? it all depend on the man regardless of wether the woman accepts it or not. why is this act not practiced in todays world? will the present day IDF go the same to the women of gaza? you should be ashamed of yourself for defending this evil act.

no stupid, it clearly shows that Moses and God approved that the children of Israel could take the VIRGINS ONLY for wife.
Why was Moses angry that they kept the non-virgins? Are only virgins for rape but NOT non-virgins? Read the reason here (also in bold above) - "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded.  "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor.  They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people.

plague eh? the problem is that you consider the actions of a stupid deity that does not seem to know his right from his left as justifiable eh? So it is right for people should be killed just because they worship other gods eh?

"I will sweep away everything in all your land," says the LORD. "I will sweep away both people and animals alike. Even the birds of the air and the fish in the sea will die. I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, along with the rest of humanity," says the LORD. "I will crush Judah and Jerusalem with my fist and destroy every last trace of their Baal worship.  I will put an end to all the idolatrous priests, so that even the memory of them will disappear.  For they go up to their roofs and bow to the sun, moon, and stars.  They claim to follow the LORD, but then they worship Molech, too.  So now I will destroy them![ /b] And I will destroy those who used to worship me but now no longer do.  They no longer ask for the LORD's guidance or seek my blessings."   (Zephaniah 1:2-6)

Here is your god raving like a mad dog on how is is going to kill every one that does not worship him, he clearly said that he will kill the wicked along with the rest of humanity he can not even diffenciate the wicked with the rest of humanity. . . .

[b]But what did these non-virgins do? Read it here (note the particular incident took place at Peor) - The midianites first conspired with the moabites to curse Israel - Read Numbers 22 - 24.
The moabites and midianite women then seduced the Israelite men to sleep with them and so draw them to worshipping Baal OF PEOR (an advice given to them by Balaam of Peor [Numbers 31:15-16])! Read Numbers 25:1-7

again you believe the words of ancient hebrew savages to be true? the words of ancient people that think natural disasters are caused by yahweh their tribal angry god? again do you think it is a justifiable act to kill people just because they refuse to worship yahweh the ancient god of the jews? this is just what i fail to understand why should a god kill people just because they fail to worship him when he clearly says that he hardens the hearts of people against him according to his will?

T[b]he LORD is a jealous God, filled with vengeance and wrath[/b].  He takes revenge on all who oppose him and furiously destroys his enemies!  The LORD is slow to get angry, but his power is great, and he never lets the guilty go unpunished.  He displays his power in the whirlwind and the storm.  The billowing clouds are the dust beneath his feet.  At his command the oceans and rivers dry up, the lush pastures of Bashan and Carmel fade, and the green forests of Lebanon wilt.In his presence the mountains quake, and the hills melt away; the earth trembles, and its people are destroyed.  Who can stand before his fierce anger?  Who can survive his burning fury?  His rage blazes forth like fire, and the mountains crumble to dust in his presence.  The LORD is good.  When trouble comes, he is a strong refuge.  And he knows everyone who trusts in him.  But he sweeps away his enemies in an overwhelming flood.  He pursues his foes into the darkness of night.   (Nahum 1:2-

chie yahweh no be small thing ohh what a god

Since virgin women were not a part of seducing the men of Israel, they were not killed and could be taken as wives. How did the Israelites treat their "slaves"? - Deuteronomy 23:15 If a slave has taken refuge with you, do not hand him over to his master. 16 Let him live among you wherever he likes and in whatever town he chooses. Do not oppress him.

Virgin women were not part of seducing the men of israel eh? do you believe that it is justifiable for women to be killed just because the seduced the chosen men of yahweh?

My dear toneyb . . . you are a poor student of the bible.

Because i dont see it in evidence when i read from you people. Pls by all means i welcome smart debates . . . i have no patience for lies and stupidity.

i will leave toneyb to respond to this but toneyb has demonstrated and shown that you read the bible with your anus not with your brains. . . . .

toneyb  i just finished reading your relpy to nairalands biggest hypocrite. . .you have really shown what a liar he really is. . . . imagine davidylan telling you to show him where rape of the gentiles was commanded by the yahweh the ancient god of the jews. . . . i would have posted more but the ones you have provided are enough for now. . . . . if his tribe and family were living close to yahweh'chosen people at that time his female relatives and sisters would have been offered as scacrificial virgins unto yahweh the tribal god of the ancient jews in other to end disputes as it was done in some parts of the old testament. . . .

davidylan:
[b]he read the story of jepthah and now claims that the bible advocated human sacrifice of just about everyone? [/b]This is about the only reason i respond to these fraudulent allegations, you never know who is reading this and believing the volume of dishonest bile being spewed here.

was the daughter of jeptha sacrificed to yahweh to end disputes? yes she was, did yahweh tell abraham to scarifice his son unto him? yes he did. . . if you don't like those parts you can tear them off from your bible so that you don't come across them when reading your bible. . . .if allah had accepted human scarifice in the koran i know you will be all over you head screaming on how wicked and evil he is. . . . what a goon. . . .

Ahem same old tactic . . .

yep i learnt it from you. . . . keep on living in your bubble of delusion. . . thou idiot. . . .

toneyb:
You want me to read about the strict punishment meted out to rapist? Is raping the young gentile virgins or worshppers of Ba'al considered a bad thing in the eyes of Yahweh the tribal God of the ancient Jews? If you were living close to the ancient Hebrews your sisters  or female relatives would have been raped under the divine command of Yahweh and non of the "chosen people" people would have been punished.

his sisters/female relatives would not only be raped they would have been scarificed to yahweh to end disputes the way it was done in the old testament. . . .

As Mazaje rightly said why did you respond to the post initally if you have better things to do than respond to people who are nothing but trolls? You seem not to understand yourself. You say one thing and then turn around and do the opposite.

davidylan never seems to be here or there, when ever he lacks ideas on how to defend the bible, he comes up with these same meaningless excuses. i notice he never does the same when debating the moslems. . . .

toneyb:
Wow 

@ Mazaje

I like the way you are giving it to them, it is good that they have taste of their own medicine.

This is priceless  , If davidylan was alive and living close to the ancient hebrews during the time of Moses or Joshua he would either have been killed or ensalved under the divine commands of Yahew. His sisters and female relatives would all have been raped under the divine command of Yahweh and his parents and relatives killed or enslaved all under the divine commands of Yahweh.   

o boi you harsh ohhh. . . his parents would have been marked for death and killed for woshipping ba'al or any of the other gods that are enemies of the ancient hebrew god yahweh, or for living in the land that yahweh had promised his "chosen people".

davidylan:
running away from what? Nadal and Del Potro are serving up an excellent game of tennis at the moment . . . i'd rather watch that than read up the disjointed ramblings of a godless and restless soul.

like i said earlier - enjoy.

thou lair why did you reply to the post initially? isn't the initail post the ramblings of a goodless and restless soul? again run away like a chicken. . . . you never seem to have anything better to do when debating muslims do you? idiot. . . .

davidylan:
Why do you say so? Have i ever told you to stop posting? Pls continue . . . the bible already predicted the rise of goons like you so its no problem to me. If i didnt like a taste of my own medicine i would simply ignore your posts. Rather i enjoy the fact that we dont leave you to post nonsense all in the name of "intelligence".

so the bible must be right because it has already "predicted" that people will some day question its foolish assertions right? the koran also predicted the rise of idiots like you that will one day rise and question its assertions as the only truth. . .

Bitterness and fear? Fear of who? You? Pls climb down your high horse.

we see that VERY clearly you can always hide your bitterness under the guise of indifference all you can but we can clearly see the fear and bitterness. . .

Many of you lazy people dont believe in anything . . . you are like the chaff which the wind driveth away . . . neither here nor there, simply floating bits of human biomass . . . they dont subscribe to scientific theories even though they trumpet them loudly when its time to "debate" christianity.

and many of you will prefer to believe the ideas and imagination of ancient jews and europeans who do not think you are better than their domestic animals, if you were alive and living in ancient judea during the time of moses or joshua i believe you would have been amongst the people who yahweh  would have advocated their death or enslavement. . . idiot. . . .

Toneyb claims not to believe in evolution, err but he posts a top ten that includes references to evolution anyway . . . the end always justifies the means no.

I dont believe in evolution but i would rather believe in it than believe that a tribal god of ancient judea created people from sand, by the way yahweh does not seem to know when he created people in the bible because there are two different creation acconts in your bible. . .

Ah here we go with the red herring again. At least now you confess that you are nothing but copy paste machines.

i rather be a copy paste machine than to believe in the words and imagination of ancient normads who wrote on stones and thought that the world was flat and the center of the universe. . . .  i rather be a copy paste machine than allow ancient hebrew men to think or imagine for me. . . .i rather be a copy paste machine than to blindly follow and accept as "truth" the ideas an imaginations of ancient jews that believed that their all powerful god lived inside a wooden ark that they created. . . .

davidylan:
you certainly have plenty of time on ur hands . . . enjoy

are you running away like a chicken thou fool?

davidylan:
6 more on the list:

10 – Your basic motto is: “scientists” said it, so it must be true.

whose basic motto? there are millions of atheist that do not believe in so many scientific assertions. . . if you have a problem with scientific assertions go write a book and stop displaying your folly and stupidity on the internet. . .

9 – You have serious problems with biblical claims that man was created from soil but swallow hook, line and sinker the idiotic scientific claim (of course without proof) that man evolved from protists (even though modern protists have not evolved in 6000 yrs).

thou fool there are so many christians that strongly believe in evolution and you are in no way a better christians than them. there are millions of atheist that do not believe in it. . . again if you have a problem with evolution and its claims go write a book and debunk it thou fool. . . . .

8 – You laugh at the claims for the existence of God but cry that God wasn’t tolerant enough to allow you into His heaven anyway.

you believe in heaven while atheist believe that heaven is imaginary so how can atheist "cry" that a non existent deity is not tolerant enough to allow them into his heaven?  can you see the foolishness?  by the way which heaven are you talking about the heaven describe in the bible or the heaven that was revealed to joyce mayer through a vision? she narrated her accounts in detail in her book. is it also the same heaven that pastor darlington visited and wrote a book about? their accounts and description of "heaven" completely cancel each other out because it is full of contradictions. heaven exist only in your deluded mind and imaginations thou idiot. . .

7 – You loudly trumpet the “atrocities” of God in Exodus and Leviticus but hypocritically turn a blind eye to the atrocities of modern day atheists and muslims in your society today. Of course you can always use the “ex-christian” excuse.

says who thou hypocrite? atheist condem the attrocites of moslems and mordern day atheist any where by the way no mordern day atheist has ever claimed to be a god, on the other hand you claim you worship a merciful and loving good that tells people to rape women and kill people that do not belong to the tribe of his "chosen people". . .

6 – You laugh at christian beliefs that a man could be born of a virgin but believe you evolved from an ape anyway.

go and publish a book debunking all the claims of evolution and stop crying on nairaland, i thought you claim to be a scientist? by the way there are so many christians out there that strongly believe in evolution and you are not a better christian than them in anyway. . . .

5 – You cry loudly for proof that biblical stories are true but are perfectly comfortable answering “I don’t know” to virtually every question we ask you of your own science.

again if you have a problem with science go and write a book against scientifict assertions, you claim to be a scientist pls can you tell me how jonah survived inside a fish for three days using your basic knowledge of science and biology? thou idiot. . . . .

davidylan:
change the title to - top ten indications that you're over-obsessed with christianity.

That is basically what atheism is all about - attacking christianity.

sure that is what atheism is exposing the lies and myths of christianity. . . .it seems you do not like the taste of your own medicine thou hypocrite. . . .

davidylan:
my brother enough of this nonsensical excuse, that is all you come up with whenever we expose the fact that you people dont really have a problem with "religion" perse . . you simply have issues with christianity because its the only one that pricks your souls.
Islam also calls you an infidel and threatens you with the flames of hell . . . yet i never see you bother about them.

we see all the bitterness and fear and the lame excuse of saying that we only attack because christianity is the only religion we have a problem with because it pricks our souls, as toneyb asked what exactly is a soul? thou hypocite why have i never seen you post attacking hindusim?

davidylan:
Top ten indications that you're over your head with atheism

3 – While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you that evolution is true, you would rather believe a lie and then rant or insult others when your lack of credible evidence is exposed.

2 – You despise "blind faith" in religion YET your entire belief in the big bang theory, abiogenesis, evolution and the earth's origin is based on . . . blind faith!



Not done . . .

i like toneyb do not believe in evolution, you claim to be a scientist so as toneyb has rightly said if you have any problem with evolution why not write a book and debunk all its assertions, thou idiot?

1 – You actually know a nothing about the bible and christianity, much of what you "know" is plagiarised from godless websites . . . but you still call yourself intelligent anyway.

what brand of christianity are you talking about? there is no universal christianity in case you have forgotten and as for the bible, the only thing that you seem to know better than me about the bible is bible apologetics. . . .the goodless websites that we plagiarise from are doing a very good job in exposing all the lies of your so called "truth" and impotent god. . . .

Prayer has no place in public school, just like facts have no place in organized religion.
-Superintendent Chalmers

Don't pray in my school,
and I won't think in your church.
-Unknown

Religions are all alike founded
upon fables and mythologies.
-Thomas Jefferson

All religions are ancient monuments to superstition, ignorance and ferocity.
-Baron D'Holbach

People who don't like their beliefs being laughed at shouldn't have such funny beliefs.
-Brad Reddekopp

Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
-Unknown

Religions vary in their degree of idiocy,
but I reject them all.(so do i)
-Gene Roddenberry

"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping
common people quiet."
-Napoleon Bonaparte

"If God has spoken, why is the world not convinced."
-Shelley

"Our ignorance is God; what we know is science."
-Ingersoll

"The clergy know that I know that they know that they do not know."
-Ingersoll

The inspiration of the bible depends on
the ignorance of the person who reads it.
-Ingersoll

"As people become more intelligent
they care less for preachers and more for teachers."
-Robert Green Ingersoll

"A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows. "
-Mark Twain

Religion is an insult to human dignity.
With or without it you would have
good people doing good things
and evil people doing evil things.
But for good people to do evil things,
that takes religion.
-Steven Weinberg

"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
-Albert Einstein

"For me the Jewish religion like all others is an incarnation of the most childish superstitions. And the Jewish people to whom I gladly belong and with whose mentality I have a deep affinity have no different quality for me than all other people. As far as my experience goes, they are no better than other human groups, although they are protected from the worst cancers by a lack of power. Otherwise I cannot see anything 'chosen' about them."
-Albert Einstein

Religion does three things quite effectively: divides people, controls people, deludes people.
-Carlespie McKinney

Everyone starts out being an atheist.
No one is born with belief in anything.
-Andy Rooney

KunleOshob:
Thanx for your prompt response, granted that religion as been used to perpetuate evil by men and used to manipulate and take advantage of other men i can understand your contempt, but the fact that most religions have been abused does to mean that God doesn't exist. Do you beileve that the earth and all that is in it is just a freak of the cosmos, isn't there enough evidence of intelligent design at play with all the harmony we have in Nature that makes our possible existence and survival a reality? As advanced as we humans are we cannot produce ordinary matter talkless of simple life forms yet we know how complicated our make up is. There are a billion and one things we humans cannot do yet they exist in perfect harmony in nature, is it possible it just came out of no where with no intelligence behind it. I know no religions answers all question about our reality or our ontology but that is not enough to say God does not exist. Can you state in clear terms why you hold on to the belief of NO God despite all the evidence? (lets leave religion out of this)

what are the evidence for a god? and do the evidence agree or support the definations of any of the gods we have out there?

OLAADEGBU:
This is for those of you who doubt the testimony of the ex-muslim terrorist who is said that Muslims and Nazis plotted the holocaust.  In the videolink below you will see a picture of the grand mufti of Jerusalem sitting and discussing with Adolf Hitler.  Which is to show that they are birds of the same feather who share a common goal of the extermination of the Jews.  Why do you think Muslims now deny the holocaust ever happened?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uIOIG-mlE8&feature=related


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF5YRag46P8&NR=1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWhwgqOaYUY&NR=1

when will you stop smoking cow dung OLAADEGBU ?

Bobbyaf:
And there is a simple explanation for it. Both sentences carry different ideas and messages. The prior has to do with Jesus' second return in ultimate glory in which case every eye shall see him according to Revelation 1:7, "Behold He cometh with clouds and every eye shall see him"

you see the problem is that you are saying what the bible does not say at all. . .does the bible tell you that both sentences carry different messages and different ideas? you are the one saying that not the bible. the problem with you guys is that you create your own gospel narrative out of what the gospel writers are saying if the passages carry different ideas and messages the writer of the gospel would have said so. . . .the passage is very clear, jesus said that he was coimg to reward his listeners according to their deed in his glory and with is angels during the life time of some of them. . . . 

The second statement has to do with the miniature glory that was given to some of Jesus' hearers which happened to have been, Peter, James, and John.

What you seem to be overlooking is the fact that Jesus sometimes spoke in codes deliberately so that He could avoid undue trouble from the religious leaders. Often His disciples in private would make their queries if they didn't understand a point made by Jesus.

how do you know this? is that what the bible says? can you see why there is no universally acceptable christian doctorine of belief? you guys say what the bible does not say, your continious repetation makes people to accept it as what the bible is saying. . . if you guys will only stick to what the gospels are saying with out adding your own opinions and interpretation then christianity would not have been the laughing stock that it has become in todays world. if i may ask how do you know when jesus is speaking codedly and when he is not speaking codely? it seems when ever you guys see things that you disagree with in the bible you concluded that jesus is speaking in codes or that the passage is an allegory, but when you see things that you agree with then it should be taken as it is written in the bible. . . .

You're not trained in that area so I wouldn't expect you to comprehend. You see when Jesus returns there will be two classes of righteous people - the righteous dead who will be resurrected at His 2nd return, and the living righteous who will not die. Jesus often spoke about this to His very own disciples, who were still not sure, about His mission despite the many miracles He wrought.

What better way to illustrate it than to have Moses and Elijah appear to the disciples in person.

you are neither trained in that area too, do you know bart ehrman? he is was once a very fundamentalist christian and one of the greatest theologians that we have today. . .he learnt greek, hebrew, latin and some coptic langauges just so that he will understand the bible in its original form. he had access to some of the oldest manuscripts of the bible that are available and he saw how very differnt they are from the bible that we have available in the market. he is now an atheist because he came to realise that the bible was strongly edited, mistranslated, and full of copyist errors. him and other open minded christian theologians out there agree that the passage was an error that should have not been included in the bible, by the way efforts where  once made to remove those passages from the bible at a time according to bart erhman. . .

Now that quote in Matthew 26:64 has to do with the 2nd return, and not what transpired on the mount of transfiguration. In fact Revelation 1:7 provides more details. Indeed the ones who had plotted against Jesus will die for sure, but when Jesus returns again in glory they will be raised just to see Him return with His glory, and that of His Father's, plus that of His angels. Revelation 1:7 says, "7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

here you are creating your own gospel and saying what the writer of matthew did not say at all. . . . if the writer of matthew wanted to say what you are saying he would have said so. . .  . . can you see the reason why no two christians agree with what the bible is saying? all you guys do is interperte and add your own opinions to what is written in the bible you relegate what the writters are truly saying to the background. . another christian will not interprete the passage the way you interpreted it. . . if you think i am lying then call another christian that seems to disagree with what the passage is saying in its original context and ask him to explain to you what he understand with what the passage is truly saying, you will be amazed at his own interpretation of the same passage. . .

Yes the Romans physically pierced Him, but it was the Jewish religious leaders that were responsible for the piercing. These leaders will be raised so that Jesus' prediction will come to pass. Just for the moment they will see Jesus whom they pierced return in majestic glory, but will be struck down again by the same glory. The only ones who will be able to withstand such a glory are all those who have been accounted righteous.

here again you are saying what the bible does not say. . . another christian will interprete this  very differently. . . .

I see that your main thrust is about the generation that Jesus spoke of, and you still have not gotten the gist of His manner of speech. Just ask for the codecs and you will see exactly what Jesus meant by that. 

That is why I say to you to bear context in mind before being critical. Jesus used the word generation to describe those people in the last days that will see the end time signs of His coming. The phrase "this generation" can be rightly seen as "that generation" Its obvious that there would have been signs that would have occurred after Jesus' death and resurrection that would happen in the future.

Jesus said this,  "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory."

Then He said this afterwards, "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

So obviously the "this generation" would be the "they" in the previous verse. You cannot isolate a phrase out of a wider context and begin to extrapolate something. Any serious student of scriptures will eventually come to realize that very important point.

Another part of the solution is to also realize that some translations have posed a huge problem in how people come to appreciate the bible. You can't only be a surface reader and think that you have a hold on Christians.

My advice to you is to humble yourself to God and allow Him to guide you.

this is you own apologetics, how did you know that is what the writer of matthew is really saying? he would have said so if that is what he really wanted to say. . . ok lets assume that it was god that guided you to this conclusions, if another humble christian is asked to interprete this same passage i am 100% sure that he will not interprete it the way you just did. . . does that then mean that the same god guided you guys differently? is this not what is happening to christianity? people not accepting the gospels as the truly are but adding their own personal opinions to the text just because they do not really feel comfortable with what the bible is saying, all the christians i know believe that the recieve their inspiration and interpretation of the bible from the holy ghost but why is it that the holy ghost keeps giving them different interpretations of the same passage. . . .

Mowire:
I read this thread just to see if those who are responding are Christians or try to defend Jesus. And my fear is confirmed "serious" christians are the respondents and people are trying to defend the Lord Jesus.

Brethren learn: this Atheist and Jesus bashers don't deserve any response when they come in the manner of mazaje's post. I have been in such circle before, so I know what I am saying. You cannot possibly defeat them with the truth that you are convicted of. They waste their life on researching into what fault they can find with the bible and/or Jesus than you spend studying the bible. And they read a lot.

And God does not need anyone to defend him. The longest anyone can live in doubt is to the day of his death, After that the reality will follow.

This I know: no one losses anything serious by following the Lord Jesus and confessing Him

You have been wired to accept anything that comes with the bible as the final  truth, even when you read things in the bible that do not make sense to you, you pust it away and blind your eyes. . . you are very emotionally attached to your beliefs even if they don't make any sense. . .i would have no trouble convincing you that the moslem holy books are false, that those books are not the true word of god. you would tend to agree that all those other people, who have other gods and other religious books, are mistaken. you might agree that they have been misinformed, or even deceived. it would seem that people in other parts of the world are so easily made to believe whatever is accepted in their part of the world. they so easily believe in false idols. only you who happen to be born into the christian religion have the "true truth.". would have no trouble, if I were in a moslem part of the world, convincing the people there that the christian bible is not "the word of god." if i were addressing buddhist, hindus, or people of any other religion i would have no trouble proving, to their satisfaction, that the christian bible is not the inspired word of god. the bible is the words of men like you who created what ever idea of god they have in their own image, just like the koran, tanakah and all the other religious text out there. . . .

"Is there one ray of light from any supernatural source?The ancient Hebrews believed that this earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun, moon and stars were specks in the sky.With this the Bible agrees.They thought the earth was flat, with four corners; that the sky, the firmament, was solid -- the floor of Jehovah's house.The Bible teaches the same.They imagined that the sun journeyed about the earth, and that by stopping the sun the day could be lengthened.The Bible agrees with this.They believed that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman; that they had been created but a few years before, and that they, the Hebrews, were their direct descendants.This the Bible teache the same. If anything is, or can be, certain, the writers of the Bible were mistaken about creation, astronomy, geology; about the causes of phenomena, the origin of evil and the cause of death.Now, it must be admitted that if an infinite Being is the author of the Bible, he knew all sciences, all facts, and could not have made a mistake.If, then, there are mistakes, misconceptions, false theories, ignorant myths and blunders in the Bible, it must have been written by finite beings; that is to say, by ignorant and mistaken men.Nothing can be clearer than this."

-Robert G. Ingersoll

"For centuries the church insisted that the Bible was absolutely true; that it contained no mistakes; that the story of creation was true; that its astronomy and geology were in accord with the facts; that the scientists who differed with the Old Testament were infidels and atheists.Now this has changed. The educated Christians admit that the writers of the Bible were not inspired as to any science. They now say that God, or Jehovah, did not inspire the writers of his book for the purpose of instructing the world about astronomy, geology, or any science. They now admit that the inspired men who wrote the Old Testament knew nothing about any science, and that they wrote about the earth and stars, the sun and moon, in accordance with the general ignorance of the time."

-Robert G. Ingersoll

"Is the Bible any nearer right in its ideas of justice, of mercy, of morality or of religion than in its conception of the sciences? Is it moral?It upholds slavery -- and the desturction of the innocent.Could a devil have done worse?Is it merciful? In war it raised the black flag; it commanded the destruction, the massacre, of all -- of the old, infirm and helpless -- of wives and babies.Were its laws inspired? Hundreds of offenses were punished with death. To pick up sticks on Sabbath, to murder your father on Monday, were equal crimes. There is in the literature of the world no bloodier code. The law of revenge -- of retaliation -- was the law of Jehovah. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a limb for a limb.This is savagery -- not philosophy.Is it just and reasonable?The Bible is opposed to religious toleration -- to religious liberty. Whoever differed with the majority was stoned to death. Investigation was a crime. Husbands were ordered to denounce and to assist in killing their unbelieving wives.Is the Bible civilized?It upholds lying, larceny, robbery, murder, the selling of diseased meat to strangers, and even the sacrifice of human beings to Jehovah. Is it philosophical?It teaches that the sins of a people can be transferred to an animal -- to a goat. It makes maternity an offence for which a sin offering had to be made.It was wicked to give birth to a boy, and twice as wicked to give birth to a girl.To make hair-oil like that used by the priests was an offence punishable with death.The blood of a bird killed over running water was regarded as medicine.Would a civilized God daub his altars with the blood of oxen, lambs and doves? Would he make all his priests butchers? Would he delight in the smell of burning flesh?"

-Robert G. Ingersoll

Orikinla:
Seeing is believing.

Come and see the Truth.

see which truth? do you believe that daddy G.O(pastor adeboye) travelled for more than 300km on an empty tank?

origina9ja:
@ poster
before i answer or contribute to your thread
can i pls ask you what faith are you.

i belong to the human faith. . . . . .

"Ignorance created faith in the face of necessity.

And God was born! This God that ignorance found, or formed, looks a great deal like a man. They tell us it has a face, hands, bowels, a foot (maybe two). They tell us it has nostrils and likes to smell the burnt offerings upon the primitive altar "

- kimbely Kent


"This God, that ignorance found or formed, also has remarkably human desires and emotions. It hates, it loves, it feels anger and it feels compassion. It has favorite individuals, and a chosen people. This God is definitely of the male sex, and has definite male tendencies. It is often angry, easily enraged, swears, destroys things, pouts, shouts, deceives, and often rests.

Any wife would recognize God."

- Emmet Fields

"Whenever primitive people needed a God they have always found a God, tailor made. It was their own God, and always resembled them a great deal. The God always had the same enemies and the same morals, as the people who found him, and many of those Gods were authors; They wrote books. Those people, though primitive, possessed skills, and so did the God they found. This God gave instructions for building a boat, he designed clothes for the priests, gave the formula for a perfume, was a tailor and made coats of skins. This God also made many simple, often foolish, laws that are called "Commandments." And God did many other things very human, and very peculiar to the time and people who first discovered God."

- Emmet Fields

"Personally, I believe it is asking too much of us to believe that God would write, or inspire, a book that mankind could not agree upon. A book that has caused endless wars, persecutions, torture, bigotry and hatred. A book that is so unintelligible that not only do "non-believers" reject it, but those who believe it to be the true word of God cannot agree upon its interpretation. There are hundreds of different Christian sects in the United States alone, and that does not include the countless thousands of private individuals who have their own, personal, interpretations of the Bible."

- Emmet Fields

"The Bible says most clearly that the God of the Old Testament (Jehovah) is "THE LORD GOD OF THE HEBREWS," the God of "the children of Israel," the God of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob. The Old Testament is the story of a private tribal god, whose first and only concern is for his "chosen people." It is a god created by the priests of that tribe, to justify the atrocities that tribe committed. It is the story of a simple tribal god, and like all the other tribal gods in the world at that time, the god always reflected the people who created him. If the tribe was a warlike tribe, their god was a warlike god.'

- Emmet Fields

huxely yehhhhh!!!!!!

Bobbyaf:
I honestly believe you have taken a lot of things out of context without fully coming to grips with the truth. Your debating tactics is similar to spammers. You flood the threads with conclusions based on false premises, and have not done an intelligent research on the very things you're pointing out.

The reason why Jesus alluded to people calling people fools and being in danger of hell fire is based on an OT text that says, "the fool hath said in his heart there is no God" In other words to call a man a fool is tantamount to saying that such a person is an atheist, or one who has rejected God. Because Jesus bears God's authority, and who Himself is God's Son, only He knows who indeed a fool is, and under the circumstances when He made such a pronouncement, He was correct.

Anyone who calls another person a fool is putting himself, or herself in God's position. That was the premise on which He spoke.

Now let me deal with your dribblings on this quote you highlighted,

I want you to notice something. Notice what is recorded in chapter 17 following the last verse in chapter 16? Observe,

Matthew 17:1-3 say, "1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him."

Notice Jesus did not say all would have seen Him in verse 28. He said "some who are standing here, " That statement was directed to some of His very disciples, and as the 17th chapter indicated, the some included Peter, James, and John who were witnesses to a miniature glory. In other words Jesus was giving them a foretaste of what His glorious kingdom return would look like.
Is it any clearer to you now [[/b]b]Mazaje?

it seems you are very good at taking things and spinning them eh? here is jesus in his own words according to the bible.

Mat 16:27 For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done.
Mat 16:28 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."

i noticed you did not bother to address the words that i highligted, jesus was very clear when he was telling the people that he will come back with his fathers angels and reward them for what ever they have done, he then concluded that some of them listening to him will not taste death till they see him come.

Moses represents those righteous ones who died and will be resurrected, while Elijah represents those righteous ones who will not see death.

this are your own conclusions , nothing like that is written in the bible. . . . .

Mat 26:61 and declared, "This fellow said, 'I am able to destroy the temple of God and rebuild it in three days.' "

Mat 26:62 Then the high priest stood up and said to Jesus, "Are you not going to answer? What is this testimony that these men are bringing against you?"

Mat 26:63 But Jesus remained silent. The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ, [fn] the Son of God."

Mat 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

again here is jesus telling people at his trail that they will see him coming on the clouds of heaven in the future. . . .

Mat 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days " 'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' [fn

Mat 24:30 "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 

Mat 24:31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other. 

Mat 24:32 "Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 

Mat 24:33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 

Mat 24:34 I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 

Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. 

Mat 24:36 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 

Mat 24:37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.

these verse is very clear, here we have jesus telling his listeners to take note of the things that will happen, he gave them the signs of things that will happen when he is about to come and how he will come from the sky with his fathers angels. . . he also said that, his listeners generation will not pass away until all what he has said come to pass. . . he told them that they should be weary becaue no one knows the day or the our only his father. . . .

iReport:
Mazaje is a blasphemer. Please stop your heretic rantings. There is nothing joblessness won't do.

i am only stating what is inside the bible. . . . .did jesus say that any body that calls some one a fool is in danger of hell fire? did he then turn around and call some people fools? did jesus not tell some of his listeners that he will come back during their life time? what the heck is blasphemy?